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Blight grenades would be a nice thing to put in a plague marine focus.

 Jidmah wrote:


40k FW will disappear completely eventually.

Not completely, but it will cut back. 40K FW is still the "test bed" to see if something is worth moving to 40K "Proper".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Strands of Fate isn't bad - Start with 18 - potentially 14-16 if you get bad luck or you're a gambler, pick up 2-3+ per command phase, turn the junky ones into 6's slowly. Its got some front loading ability and a steady but somewhat slow income - easy to see a path blowing through the 6's early on for big game hunting, regenerate them with your Guardians on objectives, and let the Farseer trickle the low results into 6's over time.

Edit To Add: One potential problem I see already though is the Guilliman Parkling Lot they hated could easily return with Eldrad this time and a handful of Fireprisms etc.

Breton wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


40k FW will disappear completely eventually.

Not completely, but it will cut back. 40K FW is still the "test bed" to see if something is worth moving to 40K "Proper".

Care to elaborate please? I'm not sure what metric you might use but I'm sure sales of the HH dread etc have been enough to warrant 40k rules, but I doubt they'll end up in "proper" 40k.

Breton wrote:
The Strands of Fate isn't bad - Start with 18 - potentially 14-16 if you get bad luck or you're a gambler, pick up 2-3+ per command phase, turn the junky ones into 6's slowly. Its got some front loading ability and a steady but somewhat slow income - easy to see a path blowing through the 6's early on for big game hunting, regenerate them with your Guardians on objectives, and let the Farseer trickle the low results into 6's over time.

I think I'm missing something here - where do you get "start with 18" from?

 Dysartes wrote:

Breton wrote:
The Strands of Fate isn't bad - Start with 18 - potentially 14-16 if you get bad luck or you're a gambler, pick up 2-3+ per command phase, turn the junky ones into 6's slowly. Its got some front loading ability and a steady but somewhat slow income - easy to see a path blowing through the 6's early on for big game hunting, regenerate them with your Guardians on objectives, and let the Farseer trickle the low results into 6's over time.

I think I'm missing something here - where do you get "start with 18" from?

You start with 12 as far as we know. Depending on how many Guardians you have and how objectives are set up in the mission, you might get additional dice at the end of your first Command phase, but that is not guaranteed.

I guess the Guardian sheet shows us why the invulnerable save is on the right.

Dudeface wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


40k FW will disappear completely eventually.

Not completely, but it will cut back. 40K FW is still the "test bed" to see if something is worth moving to 40K "Proper".

Care to elaborate please? I'm not sure what metric you might use but I'm sure sales of the HH dread etc have been enough to warrant 40k rules, but I doubt they'll end up in "proper" 40k.

The "HH dreads" (and most other HH vehicles) have been part of "proper 40k" since late 6th/early 7th. What exactly are you on about?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Seems all the people fretting about BS4+ and Sv5+ Guardians were wrong.

Interesting that their heavy weapons aren't.

That's good. Eldar troops should be pretty high quality. Even the Guardians.

As for the "Heavy" weapons, the anti Grav weapons platforms have been move-and-fire for most if not all of their existence. It makes sense.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


40k FW will disappear completely eventually.

Not completely, but it will cut back. 40K FW is still the "test bed" to see if something is worth moving to 40K "Proper".

Care to elaborate please? I'm not sure what metric you might use but I'm sure sales of the HH dread etc have been enough to warrant 40k rules, but I doubt they'll end up in "proper" 40k.

The "HH dreads" (and most other HH vehicles) have been part of "proper 40k" since late 6th/early 7th. What exactly are you on about?

Only recently has plastic models been coming out.

tneva82 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


40k FW will disappear completely eventually.

Not completely, but it will cut back. 40K FW is still the "test bed" to see if something is worth moving to 40K "Proper".

Care to elaborate please? I'm not sure what metric you might use but I'm sure sales of the HH dread etc have been enough to warrant 40k rules, but I doubt they'll end up in "proper" 40k.

The "HH dreads" (and most other HH vehicles) have been part of "proper 40k" since late 6th/early 7th. What exactly are you on about?

Only recently has plastic models been coming out.

And???

ccs wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


40k FW will disappear completely eventually.

Not completely, but it will cut back. 40K FW is still the "test bed" to see if something is worth moving to 40K "Proper".

Care to elaborate please? I'm not sure what metric you might use but I'm sure sales of the HH dread etc have been enough to warrant 40k rules, but I doubt they'll end up in "proper" 40k.

The "HH dreads" (and most other HH vehicles) have been part of "proper 40k" since late 6th/early 7th. What exactly are you on about?

Only recently has plastic models been coming out.

And???

I took Brentons comment to mean that if a FW model sold well, it got the plastic treatment and added to a codex. Except that clearly doesn't seem to stand.

Daring to hope, I would love to see exarchs become characters.

I'm unsure if they would be listed under their aspect unit or as a separate data card.

They could say that they are leaders that start in their aspect and only leave when the unit is dead.

I hope for something like this:

M7" t3 w3 sv3+ ld6+ os 0 (they are killers not holders)

Their rules would only aid their aspect.

So If we go with Scorpions I'd hope for something like:


Aspect M7" t3 w1 sv3+ ld6+ os1
Exarch m7' t3 w3 sv3+ ld6+ os0

Shuriken pistol
Scorpion chain blade 3+ A4 s5 ap-1 D1
Mandi blasters (extra attacks, devastating wounds) 3+ a1 s5 ap-1 D1

Scorpion claw 3+ A4 s8 ap-2 d2
Biting blade 3+ a5 s7 ap-1 d1
Chain sabres (twin linked) 3+ a6 s5 ap-1 d1

Rules
Strands of fate, deep strike

Exarch (leader) the exarch will only lead units with the same aspect keyword

Sustained assault, the exarch and their unit gain sustained hits (1)

Interesting choice having Mandiblasters as an extra weapon instead of an ability, looks good.

 Hellebore wrote:
Scorpion claw 3+ A4 s8 ap-2 d2
Biting blade 3+ a5 s7 ap-1 d1
Chain sabres (twin linked) 3+ a6 s5 ap-1 d1

Are these options meant to be balanced against one another?

Trickstick wrote:Blight grenades would be a nice thing to put in a plague marine focus.

Grenades as a whole seem to be going into a universal stratagem. They may be a unique stratagem for their basic detachment around them though or a unique ability based around the Biologus Putrifier.

I am interested in the DG article as it is an army that I know how they work so I will be able to write some thoughts tomorrow.

My theory is that their army special rule is going to be based around their Contagions, perhaps they will have multiple that you can choose from at the start of the game, and the detachment rule will be similar to Inexorable advance, allowing units to count as stationary and Infantry to go at full speed at all times.

Dudeface wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


40k FW will disappear completely eventually.

Not completely, but it will cut back. 40K FW is still the "test bed" to see if something is worth moving to 40K "Proper".

Care to elaborate please? I'm not sure what metric you might use but I'm sure sales of the HH dread etc have been enough to warrant 40k rules, but I doubt they'll end up in "proper" 40k.

I mean Drop Pods. I mean Contemptor Dreads. I mean Chapter Iconography Shoulderpads, I mean HH/30K itself. Forgeworld is somewhat a testbed for new ideas/models - and the take-off-successful ones have a habit of moving to GW itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Breton wrote:
The Strands of Fate isn't bad - Start with 18 - potentially 14-16 if you get bad luck or you're a gambler, pick up 2-3+ per command phase, turn the junky ones into 6's slowly. Its got some front loading ability and a steady but somewhat slow income - easy to see a path blowing through the 6's early on for big game hunting, regenerate them with your Guardians on objectives, and let the Farseer trickle the low results into 6's over time.

I think I'm missing something here - where do you get "start with 18" from?

You start with 12 as far as we know. Depending on how many Guardians you have and how objectives are set up in the mission, you might get additional dice at the end of your first Command phase, but that is not guaranteed.

That's correct, I just fumblefingered that one, thinking it through faster than I typed it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

I took Brentons comment to mean that if a FW model sold well, it got the plastic treatment and added to a codex. Except that clearly doesn't seem to stand.

Not necessarily "sells well" alone. Drop Pods made the leap, but the Termite drill did not. Chapter shoulderpads made the leap, chapter LandRaider/Rhino doors did not. The Contemptor did, while the Leviathan did not. The Leviathan probably encroached too much on the Redemptor Chassis/plans, the Termite on the Pods.

They sell two different plastic Leviathan kits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They sell two different plastic Leviathan kits.

I think the criteria for "proper 40k" here is making it into the mainstream codex, which I doubt leviathans will even with the plastic kits. If they continue to get imperial armour rules then they'll continue to be an afterthought.

Ending the great debate: as expected, a critical wound is just a term for "always wounds on a X" and does nothing else on its own:

Dudeface wrote:
I think the criteria for "proper 40k" here is making it into the mainstream codex, which I doubt leviathans will even with the plastic kits. If they continue to get imperial armour rules then they'll continue to be an afterthought.

Ah, ok, I understand. Thanks.

And ooh! Leaks. Cool.

 Hellebore wrote:
They could say that they are leaders that start in their aspect and only leave when the unit is dead.

That's just how the regular "leader" rule works as far as we know. No leaving or joining units over the course of a game.

I'm reading too much into the eldar preview, but the preview makes my space elves feel very late 8th edition in a bad way. Looks like we're swapping out move-shoot-move for a pile of auto-successes and rerolls. Gives me the impression GW wants us to trade blows in a stand-up fight rather than moving around and being tricksy.

I wasn't happy with our move-shoot-move being limited to a stratagem in 8th. Here's hoping there's a detachment for regaining Battle Focus or something.

Other than that, no major complaints. Our various flying units zooming up on top of buildings to gain plunging fire on top of re-rolls to hit and wound with auto-successes for the more critical rolls seems like it will make us hit crazy hard.

It's so nice that after ten editions, so many rules scale so well with game size...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
It's so nice that after ten editions, so many rules scale so well with game size...

Conversely it's also nice to see them admit you can't balance at 500 and 2000 with the exact same rules.

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They sell two different plastic Leviathan kits.

I think the criteria for "proper 40k" here is making it into the mainstream codex, which I doubt leviathans will even with the plastic kits. If they continue to get imperial armour rules then they'll continue to be an afterthought.

Ending the great debate: as expected, a critical wound is just a term for "always wounds on a X" and does nothing else on its own:

Spoiler:

Actually the standard I had in mind when I made up the term is shifting from the Forgeworld webpage to the GW webpage (and branding on the packages etc) Far fewer make that jump I realize - but that was fairly intentional.

And no, your douchebaggery not allowing you to let it go OR be honest about the question raised aside, that doesn't end the debate, because it was never about what it does on its own, but also what else can interact with it which you've been told several times yet refuse to acknowledge.

Breton wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They sell two different plastic Leviathan kits.

I think the criteria for "proper 40k" here is making it into the mainstream codex, which I doubt leviathans will even with the plastic kits. If they continue to get imperial armour rules then they'll continue to be an afterthought.

Ending the great debate: as expected, a critical wound is just a term for "always wounds on a X" and does nothing else on its own:

Spoiler:

Actually the standard I had in mind when I made up the term is shifting from the Forgeworld webpage to the GW webpage (and branding on the packages etc) Far fewer make that jump I realize - but that was fairly intentional.

And no, your douchebaggery not allowing you to let it go OR be honest about the question raised aside, that doesn't end the debate, because it was never about what it does on its own, but also what else can interact with it which you've been told several times yet refuse to acknowledge.

Of course

Breton wrote:

That still doesn't explain what a Critical Wound is. I mean a Wound, a Critical Wound, a Mortal Wound? A Wound can armor save, a Mortal Wound can't, what happens to a Critical Wound?

But at least now it's in the open, you can lay it to rest surely, or are you wanting a breakdown of every possible interaction?

Yes I am potentially being provocative raising it again, but after 10 pages of putting up with your dishonesty and poor wording, I felt drawing a conclusion to something that plagued this thread is worthwhile. A little humility to all those people you got angry at telling you what it was, as per your question, wouldn't hurt.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Scorpion claw 3+ A4 s8 ap-2 d2
Biting blade 3+ a5 s7 ap-1 d1
Chain sabres (twin linked) 3+ a6 s5 ap-1 d1

Are these options meant to be balanced against one another?

I wasn't really trying to, but are we expecting them to all cost the same and balance in the stats?

The terminator captain had 5 weapon options but they didn't look equal to me.

The differences were

Sword s5 a6
Fist s8 a5
Claw s5 a7 D1 twinlinked

Chain fist a5 3+ anti vehicle
Hammer a5 3+ devestating wounds

I'm not sure if they all balance.

Certainly imo the lightning claws are weakest, losing (compared to sword) damage for 1 extra attack and the off chance you'll roll a 1.

 Hellebore wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Scorpion claw 3+ A4 s8 ap-2 d2
Biting blade 3+ a5 s7 ap-1 d1
Chain sabres (twin linked) 3+ a6 s5 ap-1 d1

Are these options meant to be balanced against one another?

I wasn't really trying to, but are we expecting them to all cost the same and balance in the stats?

The terminator captain had 5 weapon options but they didn't look equal to me.

The differences were

Sword s5 a6
Fist s8 a5
Claw s5 a7 D1 twinlinked

Chain fist a5 3+ anti vehicle
Hammer a5 3+ devestating wounds

I'm not sure if they all balance.

Certainly imo the lightning claws are weakest, losing (compared to sword) damage for 1 extra attack and the off chance you'll roll a 1.

Rerolls on wounds for twin linked don't forget, so that's arguably of some value in a world of higher T.

Critical wounds are wounds that ignore the s vs t interaction, succeeding on a fixed roll.

In normal attacks, that's a 6. Some special rules change it.

Bit it's never been confusing to me. A crit is a successful wound on a fixed number that ignores s vs t.

 Hellebore wrote:
Critical wounds are wounds that ignore the s vs t interaction, succeeding on a fixed roll.

In normal attacks, that's a 6. Some special rules change it.

Bit it's never been confusing to me. A crit is a successful wound on a fixed number that ignores s vs t.

Dear god, please not this again.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Critical wounds are wounds that ignore the s vs t interaction, succeeding on a fixed roll.

In normal attacks, that's a 6. Some special rules change it.

Bit it's never been confusing to me. A crit is a successful wound on a fixed number that ignores s vs t.

Dear god, please not this again.

look on the upside, there is a whole editions worth of time with this debate, especially when GW start issuing books with "critical wounds must be re-rolled v this unit" or other such jibberish to needlessly muddy the water