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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:The psychology of pricing is so fascinating, and clearly isn't rational, rather highly subjective.

Just thinking about it personally, I love the look of this box (minus the frightful lack of transports), and as an Epic Armageddon fan, the "size" in volume of the box looks like a good army...

... but price will be a weird factor. At say $170-ish, I know I will buy two of these and give away the extra book...

... at $200 I would buy one...

... at $250-300, I won't buy any.

Just a funny observation that our brains create pretty arbitrary break points where a thing can go from "awesome" to "crap" quite suddenly.

For me the price break is where I can buy an entire vanguard army for the same cost! At less than €200 (hopefully closer to €125) I'd feel it was an expensive purchase but the fun of messing with the new plastic would be part of that cost. Say another €150 for terrain and maybe another €150 for some of the other 'new' items (Tbird, set of rhinos etc)

Call it €500 for a full blown army, some additional terrain & a few other odds n ends I may or may not really need (New rules, decals, dice etc).

But I do often order €500 worth of vanguard, and I know just how much gets crammed into those orders! (My last one had to come in three separate packages!)

The break point for me is once the cost go past what I can order from vanguard and get to enjoy the 'SNAP' of the postmans back as he drags it all up the driveway!

tauist wrote:Now that we are getting Epic scale minis back, I've been thinking how to solve a problem I used to have with the og epic - how to base these models in a way which looks cool and in-scale. Back in the day, everyone used flock, but to me eye it always looked off.. I'm thinking texture pastes or citadel technicals might be a great solution, it would kinda look like what using sand + gravel looks like in 28mil scale..

Thoughts?

I make my own texture paste now for epic. It takes a while to dry but the effect is fantastic for the scale, as the particles are much smaller than the GW ones. This is what my own home made grey version looks like:




Compared to Sand:



I have some tiny, tiny, tiny little tufts for epic as well, but for some strange reason none of my photos have any of them in!

Can't wait for this Game!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Scatter dice

And order markers, instead of dice, if i read that correctly

 tauist wrote:
Now that we are getting Epic scale minis back, I've been thinking how to solve a problem I used to have with the og epic - how to base these models in a way which looks cool and in-scale. Back in the day, everyone used flock, but to me eye it always looked off.. I'm thinking texture pastes or citadel technicals might be a great solution, it would kinda look like what using sand + gravel looks like in 28mil scale..

Thoughts?

GW technical paints Martian Ironearth and Martian Ironcrust give a good effect appropriate to the scale. To whit a parched cracked ground with indications of cracked plascrete. It's what I use on my Titanicus bases (see my Gallery) and here's an example or 2:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Scatter dice

so already unplayable because everyone is going to cheat or having hour long arguments about the direction of the template /s

 kodos wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Scatter dice

so already unplayable because everyone is going to cheat or having hour long arguments about the direction of the template /s

If you have old metal titans you can put them in a sock and use that to settle disputes.

thanks for the reference picts, paste & technicals seems to work fine!

 zedmeister wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Now that we are getting Epic scale minis back, I've been thinking how to solve a problem I used to have with the og epic - how to base these models in a way which looks cool and in-scale. Back in the day, everyone used flock, but to me eye it always looked off.. I'm thinking texture pastes or citadel technicals might be a great solution, it would kinda look like what using sand + gravel looks like in 28mil scale..

Thoughts?

GW technical paints Martian Ironearth and Martian Ironcrust give a good effect appropriate to the scale. To whit a parched cracked ground with indications of cracked plascrete. It's what I use on my Titanicus bases (see my Gallery) and here's an example or 2:

Ooh, what's the recipe for that Krytos green? Just Sons of Horus over Lupercal?

There's definitely two different feelings pulling me in two directions, 25% epic style to go with my Titans or to just go mad for silly huge games in 3mm.

Old Epic's model scale kind of works nicely as a representative focus on the units, combined with a similar zoom in focus with 3mm terrain to give you a huge battlefield. We've had some games that were modelled on 100km fronts (covering the something like the distance from Heathrow to Southampton) using double boards, which feels like a decent size for something like the Heresy.

 Tastyfish wrote:


There's definitely two different feelings pulling me in two directions, 25% epic style to go with my Titans or to just go mad for silly huge games in 3mm.

Hmm, you might then wanna check out this.

 zedmeister wrote:
Looking again, it's hard to pin down exactly, but seems like a Hybrid edition:

- Alt Activation - that's a given
- Hidden orders - 1st/2nd edition
- Terrain rules with roads being faster - 3rd edition
- Detachment and army building rules sound like 4th edition
- Weapon rules sound like 4th (Anti-Infantry, Anti-Tank, Macro Weapons)

Yes these are my thoughts too.
Roads being faster was a thing in Armageddon too right?
Scatter dice was definitely used for artillery and other things in 2nd - was it the same in Armageddon? I can't recall.

I have been waging the scale battle online in various places and the sheer number of people convinced that this is in 8mm despite the evidence for it being 6mm is amazing,
I really think part of the problem is that a lot of people don't realize how under scaled a lot of the old models where.

So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

 Malika2 wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:


There's definitely two different feelings pulling me in two directions, 25% epic style to go with my Titans or to just go mad for silly huge games in 3mm.

Hmm, you might then wanna check out this.

Those were exactly the guys I was thinking of (and why I've already got 3mm terrain ready...)

Armageddon doesn't really use scatter dice and I seem to remember Epic40K had the truly insane system of paper chits on a large blast template held over the battlefield and allowed to flutter down in order to simulate scattered drop troops, or something like that.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

Having a consistent scale helps a bit when you're shopping for 3rd-party-stuff and terrain, but that ship has sailed.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

Getting your STLs rigged up with supports the right size. They say 25% but that's also wrong - it's closer to something like 21.25-22.5% for Titanicus

Tsagualsa wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

Having a consistent scale helps a bit when you're shopping for 3rd-party-stuff and terrain, but that ship has sailed.

I remember people joking about the size of the rhinos even when they were first released, they have always been too small. But no-one really cares.

The fact is, unless you have miniatures from different ranges and scales on the same miniature base, you can't really notice it in the context of a game. I've got classic GW, Vanguard and Microworld proxies and more modern 3d print 'space knight' stuff, all in the same army and it looks fine.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

Well I'm putting on a little parade at home to celebrate my victory. The cat is less than impressed but I needed this small win this week, even though its only monday!

Has any pixel counting wizard compared these to Vanguard's models?

Oh I'm going to take the question mark out of the thread title if no one minds, I think the question is answered

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Epic may be a slow burn thing.

Around where I play at least Titanicus definitely was. I only knew one other person locally who picked up the launch box on day one, and for a long while any games required me bringing enough models for both sides. However the various Xmas bundle boxes followed by the popular Warmaster release & heavily discounted maniple set really kick-started the game and quite a few others eventually bought into the game.

With some time to build up the range Epic can (and likely will) be able to take the same approach. This core set might not hook a lot of people in with a narrow unit selection. But give it about a year and many favourite units like Land Raiders & Baneblades will have returned, eventually showing up with a discount for anyone wanting to buy a pure marine or guard force all in one box. That's when things will get interesting.

 Pacific wrote:
But no-one really cares.

The fact is, unless you have miniatures from different ranges and scales on the same miniature base, you can't really notice it in the context of a game.

I have freely mixed the Renegades sprue Traitor Marines with the '98 Chaos sprue Chaos Space Marines on the same base, and despite the fact they are _wildly_ differently sized when you're staring at them up close, they look great on the tabletop.

attached: stand containing 1990 Renegade, 1998 Chaos Space Marine w/ Heavy Bolter, 1998 Chaos Space Marine, 1990 Renegade with Missile Launcher, 1990 Renegade.
Shot of several stands mixing the various "scales" that existed within the Epic range.

No-one has yet said if it has UP/DOWN and LEFT/RIGHT dice for shooting at titans?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

Internet Points! on a more serious note a lot of people are turned of by the perception that the scale is different so it helps to reassure them that no it s the right scale also size of 3d prints and so on

The templates and scatterdice will be for the titans. and les so for artillery if they keep the armagedone rules for it.

lurch wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

Internet Points! on a more serious note a lot of people are turned of by the perception that the scale is different so it helps to reassure them that no it s the right scale also size of 3d prints and so on

I think there may be some community heartburn when the plastics release as I have seen quite a few people print their Epic stuff at 8mm on the assumption that it's a match for Aeronautica/Titanicus/New-Epic. Not that it really matters for gameplay, but people like stuff to match.

For someone with an old army, it may be as simple as basing their bases, just to raise the overall profile.

Tanks maybe not such a simple hypothetical solution.

 catbarf wrote:

lurch wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

Internet Points! on a more serious note a lot of people are turned of by the perception that the scale is different so it helps to reassure them that no it s the right scale also size of 3d prints and so on

I think there may be some community heartburn when the plastics release as I have seen quite a few people print their Epic stuff at 8mm on the assumption that it's a match for Aeronautica/Titanicus/New-Epic. Not that it really matters for gameplay, but people like stuff to match.

Ya I don't think i have ever seen so much wrong info stem from such a offhanded comment as that caused by the 8mm marines remark on in the warcom article.

lurch wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

lurch wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

Internet Points! on a more serious note a lot of people are turned of by the perception that the scale is different so it helps to reassure them that no it s the right scale also size of 3d prints and so on

I think there may be some community heartburn when the plastics release as I have seen quite a few people print their Epic stuff at 8mm on the assumption that it's a match for Aeronautica/Titanicus/New-Epic. Not that it really matters for gameplay, but people like stuff to match.

Ya I don't think i have ever seen so much wrong info stem from such a offhanded comment as that caused by the 8mm marines remark on in the warcom article.

Misinterpreting WarCom is on the shortlist to become an Olympic Sport at this point

Those look great Judgedoug I think those certainly mix well.

Kid Kyoto - yes this got posted a few pages ago, courtesy of Ian Wood in the FB community group. He used some trigonometry based on the known base and Warhound size and came to this conclusion.

 Slinky wrote:
No-one has yet said if it has UP/DOWN and LEFT/RIGHT dice for shooting at titans?

This is the most important question!

Seriously though I hope they use the Titan hit chart and damage from SM. Much preferred that to the hit-points system in Armageddon, which was much more dry.

lurch wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

lurch wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So, in practice, what is the payoff for being right about scale?

Internet Points! on a more serious note a lot of people are turned of by the perception that the scale is different so it helps to reassure them that no it s the right scale also size of 3d prints and so on

I think there may be some community heartburn when the plastics release as I have seen quite a few people print their Epic stuff at 8mm on the assumption that it's a match for Aeronautica/Titanicus/New-Epic. Not that it really matters for gameplay, but people like stuff to match.

Ya I don't think i have ever seen so much wrong info stem from such a offhanded comment as that caused by the 8mm marines remark on in the warcom article.

Ah! Don't even! People are now focused on the marines being 10.5mm tall from some seriously wrong measuring on the AT21 group

People will be preaching its a 12mm game by this time tomorrow.

Honestly...

just remember the WC guys talking about the size of the Contemptor being Marine size, it will be a 16mm game tomorrow