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they were always going to be bigger, GW needed to distinguish them from what else is out there.

however by keeping the base sizes roughly similar they leave the game option to play with older stuff. will be interesting to see just how important model size is, I suspect with a bit of that rare thing "common sense" it won't be an issue at all

to be honest if the whole thing actually was 10mm scale I'd be very happy, that ship sailed with the titan release though sadly

reasoning being the huge range of 10mm scale terrain out there for model railways

Can you gents take the scale arguments to its own thread? Please?

What size were the original square epic bases? 20mm?

Based on the images we have and assuming the bases are 25mm, 10mm seems a bit of a stretch, maybe the termies will be close to that though.

But if the bases aren't actually 25mm then it throws off all the scale images I uploaded, so perhaps they're 28mm or something like that.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Based on the images we have and assuming the bases are 25mm, 10mm seems a bit of a stretch, maybe the termies will be close to that though.

But if the bases aren't actually 25mm then it throws off all the scale images I uploaded, so perhaps they're 28mm or something like that.

FYI GW said they're 25mm bases

 judgedoug wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Based on the images we have and assuming the bases are 25mm, 10mm seems a bit of a stretch, maybe the termies will be close to that though.

But if the bases aren't actually 25mm then it throws off all the scale images I uploaded, so perhaps they're 28mm or something like that.

FYI GW said they're 25mm bases

Yep, GW social medie confirmed 25mm bases, and btw also confirmed that the box contents are plastic.

for what its worth, a 3d printed Land Raider in 8mm, alongside some 6mm stuff.

I couldn't find a Warhound to put it next to. 10mm grid on the painting mat



have some Rhino printing, once done will check if four of them are roughly the same length as a 30k one

I do appreciate folks giving approximations, but because my brain is wonky on scale and that, I’ll need to wait to see direct side-by-side comparisons in due course.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do appreciate folks giving approximations, but because my brain is wonky on scale and that, I’ll need to wait to see direct side-by-side comparisons in due course.

what is of course required here is four marines glued on top of each other, totem pole style

to be honest I'd say as long as new & old are not physically on the same stand it will be fine anyway

I'm liking how they have a bit more detail on these than last time around, but not utterly insane amounts

 judgedoug wrote:

edit: for GF9 I mean pieces like the pools/toxic pools, industrial storage tanks, hills, etc, seen in the third pic I've attached

You mean you don't use the 15mm European houses on your Epic tables?

It’s definitely a fine balance.

Not just in “we could make them bigger, but do we want/need to for the game” ways, but also “do we want these to be a pain in the arse to batch paint quickly or not”.

Right now? They’re looking about nice. Weapons prominent and big enough to be noticeable, without requiring a great deal of painting ability to pick them out.

We desperately need 2 threads, one for the game, one for the never ending discussion about scale

Indeed, if we could kindly take scale discussion to a thread of its own, that would be great.

Just wondering if we should start a new thread called "Legions Imperialis: News & Rumours", as the cat is now out of the bag and we can expect more news articles from WHC, and we also know the game will be released in August.

So, now that we can talk about the game again…looking at the pictures, it includes one CHONKY hardback rule book. Are they just including rules for all units in the core rulebook?

If so, then no doubt we’ll see all the AT titans, all the AI planes (including the Custodes Ares Gunship - another faction, woo!).

I wonder what extra miniatures will be in the first release? Hoping for some super heavies myself.

MrHobbles wrote:
So, now that we can talk about the game again…looking at the pictures, it includes one CHONKY hardback rule book. Are they just including rules for all units in the core rulebook?

If so, then no doubt we’ll see all the AT titans, all the AI planes (including the Custodes Ares Gunship - another faction, woo!).

I wonder what extra miniatures will be in the first release? Hoping for some super heavies myself.

I mean, I hope so, there's certainly more than enough space in that bigass book to do it three times over.

...but they probably won't, if their other games are any indication.

I really don't mind if they 'do a Necromunda' and a few years from now someone dies when their rules book selection falls on them when they are on their way to play a game, as long as they do a good job with the core rules!

MrHobbles wrote:
So, now that we can talk about the game again…looking at the pictures, it includes one CHONKY hardback rule book. Are they just including rules for all units in the core rulebook?

If so, then no doubt we’ll see all the AT titans, all the AI planes (including the Custodes Ares Gunship - another faction, woo!).

I wonder what extra miniatures will be in the first release? Hoping for some super heavies myself.

Since they said we would be able to make a super-heavy tank company for Solar Auxilia a baneblade chassie should be coming for sure (Maybe only the Stormhammer if going by the HH2.0 Liber Imperium?)
And if Solar Auxilia get some, SM will for sure also get some

MrHobbles wrote:
So, now that we can talk about the game again…looking at the pictures, it includes one CHONKY hardback rule book. Are they just including rules for all units in the core rulebook?

If so, then no doubt we’ll see all the AT titans, all the AI planes (including the Custodes Ares Gunship - another faction, woo!).

I wonder what extra miniatures will be in the first release? Hoping for some super heavies myself.

I guess the core book will have a chunky part of what currently exists in the plastic GW and resin HH Heresy ranges, and stuff that comes later will get rules either as rules cards or in thematic supplements that handle specific battles or something like that (or both, of course). It's pretty much the only way to include stuff they'll design in the future, and cards + thematic books seems to be trend over various systems for GW at the moment.

 Matrindur wrote:

MrHobbles wrote:
So, now that we can talk about the game again…looking at the pictures, it includes one CHONKY hardback rule book. Are they just including rules for all units in the core rulebook?

If so, then no doubt we’ll see all the AT titans, all the AI planes (including the Custodes Ares Gunship - another faction, woo!).

I wonder what extra miniatures will be in the first release? Hoping for some super heavies myself.

Since they said we would be able to make a super-heavy tank company for Solar Auxilia a baneblade chassie should be coming for sure (Maybe only the Stormhammer if going by the HH2.0 Liber Imperium?)
And if Solar Auxilia get some, SM will for sure also get some

They'd better have more than just the Stormhammer available at launch. For starters, it seems a bit odd to have a Baneblade chassis tank without having the actual Baneblade that the Stormhammer is modified from. Secondly, the Shadowsword is probably the single biggest reason why titans have to worry about the crunchies running around underfoot. Even a warlord needs to be wary of volcano cannons waiting in ambush. Both tanks need to be part of the game (with stats, even if models aren't available quite yet) at the launch.

And yes, I know, you're referencing a recently published book that apparently only has the Stormhammer and none of the others. But that doesn't change the fact that it would be a mistake to not have the Baneblade and Shadowsword (the original two superheavy tanks) in the game.

With the book looking as thicc as it does, it's either going to have a flockton of lore or loads of datasheets for stuff

Eumerin wrote:

 Matrindur wrote:

MrHobbles wrote:
So, now that we can talk about the game again…looking at the pictures, it includes one CHONKY hardback rule book. Are they just including rules for all units in the core rulebook?

If so, then no doubt we’ll see all the AT titans, all the AI planes (including the Custodes Ares Gunship - another faction, woo!).

I wonder what extra miniatures will be in the first release? Hoping for some super heavies myself.

Since they said we would be able to make a super-heavy tank company for Solar Auxilia a baneblade chassie should be coming for sure (Maybe only the Stormhammer if going by the HH2.0 Liber Imperium?)
And if Solar Auxilia get some, SM will for sure also get some

They'd better have more than just the Stormhammer available at launch. For starters, it seems a bit odd to have a Baneblade chassis tank without having the actual Baneblade that the Stormhammer is modified from. Secondly, the Shadowsword is probably the single biggest reason why titans have to worry about the crunchies running around underfoot. Even a warlord needs to be wary of volcano cannons waiting in ambush. Both tanks need to be part of the game (with stats, even if models aren't available quite yet) at the launch.

And yes, I know, you're referencing a recently published book that apparently only has the Stormhammer and none of the others. But that doesn't change the fact that it would be a mistake to not have the Baneblade and Shadowsword (the original two superheavy tanks) in the game.

Just to clarify HH2.0 does also have rules for all the other Baneblade variants just not in the main book but as expanded profiles in a Legacies document. But for Epic I would be very surprised if we don't get rules for every versions and models should also be likely.
After all GW doesn't acknowledge third party models and since GW doesn't like rules without a model everything that gets rules should also be getting models

The "rules with no models" issue might not be as big of a problem for GW this time around - at least legally. IIRC, the legal issue that GW had before was that there had to be an existing model for GW to claim infringement. However, if FW were to release rules for the Baneblade without immediately releasing a small Baneblade, GW could probably use the existing 28mm-scale Baneblade as the "existing model" for an infringement case.

It would still behoove GW to get the official thing out asap, mind you, since a generic "tank" made by a third party could otherwise fill in for it with little trouble.

Tbf they did that exact scenario with Aeronautica fairly recently. When they released the SM/Eldar expansion there were rules in the book for Wraithfighters and Nightshades, but the minis didn’t come out until a few months later. So it’s not unprecedented.

"No model no rules" is a customer experience issue, not a legal issue. The current generation of games aimed at veterans never adhered to it.

AI Compaion, Xenos fliers and the Valkyries have gone LCTB on the GW site, so I guess that answers one question.

The Heresy rulebook isn't, however. So technically the game still seems to be sticking around?

 Arbitrator wrote:
AI Compaion, Xenos fliers and the Valkyries have gone LCTB on the GW site, so I guess that answers one question.

The Heresy rulebook isn't, however. So technically the game still seems to be sticking around?

Given that the Imperial fliers can now be used in both games, no need to not keep offering the game for sale. Just need to start including both types of bases in the box.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
"No model no rules" is a customer experience issue, not a legal issue. The current generation of games aimed at veterans never adhered to it.

IIRC, there was a legal battle with one third party that basically devolved down to the court stating, "You can't claim they're infringing on your IP if their model shares the same name as a unit that you never released a figure for."

Eumerin wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
"No model no rules" is a customer experience issue, not a legal issue. The current generation of games aimed at veterans never adhered to it.

IIRC, there was a legal battle with one third party that basically devolved down to the court stating, "You can't claim they're infringing on your IP if their model shares the same name as a unit that you never released a figure for."

the case was that GW claimed to have the copyright on models others released if they are based on an artwork or fluff text from GW and the court ruled that GW only owns copyright on models if there is already a model
this caused that GW would not release a Codex with missing models as anyone could make those based on the artworks given

the no model no rules itself has nothing to do with it as rules alone do nothing in that case except that people hunt down 3rd party manufacturer to get those if the rules are good
and GW wants to avoid people being forced to leave their ecosystem because they don't provide the models

for games aimed at veterans, this does not matter as they already know that other companies exist and are not buying exclusive from GW anyway

 kodos wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
"No model no rules" is a customer experience issue, not a legal issue. The current generation of games aimed at veterans never adhered to it.

IIRC, there was a legal battle with one third party that basically devolved down to the court stating, "You can't claim they're infringing on your IP if their model shares the same name as a unit that you never released a figure for."

the case was that GW claimed to have the copyright on models others released if they are based on an artwork or fluff text from GW and the court ruled that GW only owns copyright on models if there is already a model
this caused that GW would not release a Codex with missing models as anyone could make those based on the artworks given

the no model no rules itself has nothing to do with it as rules alone do nothing in that case except that people hunt down 3rd party manufacturer to get those if the rules are good
and GW wants to avoid people being forced to leave their ecosystem because they don't provide the models

for games aimed at veterans, this does not matter as they already know that other companies exist and are not buying exclusive from GW anyway

Even in "games aimed at veterans" I don't think GW have left a large amount of time between releasing rules and releasing the models. The Eldar aircraft were given rules mid to late Jan, but then the models were shown mid-March, so that's not even 2 months gap, and it wouldn't surprise me if that gap was unplanned because it seemed a bit odd of GW to "announce" new models in a book rather than on their website.

Whenever there's been a bit of a gap, GW has withheld the rules, for example the Mega Bommer didn't get rules in the book that it came out after, I think that was roughly 3 or 4 months.

I imagine for the "legal" side they likely only need to tease the models on their website rather than actually releasing it to have copyright grounds to take action against people making knock offs.

So I'd suspect that we won't get rules for more than what is released/teased within a couple of months of August. Although, perhaps the existence of the models in 30k/40k is enough to lock down copyright for Epic too.

In any case... this is GW we're talking about. I'll be surprised if all the rules needed to play come in the boxed set, far more likely it'll be spread across multiple books. Maybe GW learned their lesson from AI and won't do the stupid campaign book style, but I'll still be surprised if everything you need is in the boxed set, that would be a very un-GW-like thing to do.