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 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

The original Space Marine was a one off boxed game, it wasn't intended to be a whole system either. There is literally nothing in the original first edition box that hints at future expansion.

Um... mind having a look at the rulebook page 62/63? There're pictures of Eldar and Ork titans, the plastic sets (Eldar Legion, Ork Horde - the models reappeared in the 2nd edition box) and plans for upcoming models. And yes, I'm talking about the game from 1989.

Plus all of the White Dwarf coverage that immediately started introducing additional content and had already been doing so since the release of Adeptus Titanicus in 1988.

Oh I was looking at the other book, I didn't see that in the back. Still the New Legions has already shown more product that the original Epic release, but it does show that there were Eldar and Ork forces from the go. Not that GW today could get away with releasing a single eldar and grav tank, a single ork and battle wagon at launch...people would still flip out. But you are correct I was mistaken

 xttz wrote:


From what's been announced for Epic so far, they've given precisely equal resources to imperial guard as they have to space marines, plus new titan & terrain content on top of that. By all means continue arguing that HH is all about space marines though.

Meanwhile if you look at major faction releases in the last three years of 40k the "1 or 2 new units for a xenos faction" is actually:
Necrons (approx 18 kits)
Orks (11 kits)
Eldar (10 kits) + corsairs
Votann
Tyranids (8 in Leviathan, likely 10+ more to come)

That significantly beats the marine content released in the same period, especially when the CSM & World Eater waves had fewer kits in total with a focus on daemonic & cultist concepts over power armour.

If it wasn't for hyperbole and a frankly worrying tendency to feel like some kind of victim, your post would have been empty.

My apologies, i didn't say imperial forces, mostly being marines. How many different ways to slice one faction.

And any release looks skewed if you select a specific range of time to measure. You could pick one year to prove the opposite.

Marines have had so many versions of different squads rereleased, while Eldar have 25 year old units.

Your position proves my point, you're so used to getting ignored, that extra units look like a cornucopia.

Meanwhile the imperium makes up half the 40k forces, of which most are marines, and the HH is currently ONLY marines and they put entire production into making new tactical marines again, butjist for the HH.

No other army gets upgrade packs, whole games to release compatible new units or half a dozen new variants released regularly. There are more lieutenant models than the combined hq models of several xenos factions.


Your proof of new nid and necron models is them being treated like marines 10 years ago, while marines now are a whole new level beyond that.

Call me when tyranids get a hive war game in two scales with their forces released doubled and redesigned to work alongside their existing forces.

You see focus, I see the minimum level of investment in factions designed to be equals to marines in a game.

leopard wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Oh mine are "6-8mm" which I found through a remix of them on cults crediting this maker on thingiverse. He's got quite a bit of stuff, too (right now grabbing it all before the inevitable soon-to-hit wave of takedowns).

I think the fan-supported Epic community has been on this scale for a while now, from what I can see.

guessing a lot of it is "6mm but 'truescale' so 8mm high"

which is fine as it looks good

and yes I suspect the GW trolls will be out in force now they are bringing this back - and while a lot of whats there is perfectly legal, totally original sculpts I suspect the site will now be interested in protecting the community there and will take stuff down to save the fight

grabbing what you can is wise

I feel a great disturbance in the force, its as if a million 3D printers got revved up, and were suddenly silenced.
I don't know how much space epic STL take up on my drive...but its a lot. Get them while you can.

I assume stuff like the ,'Orbital Knights' range (which look derivative, rather than identical) will still be safe?

Same with the Vanguard Miniatures range, if you are after proxies, where they have gone to great lengths to make them again look derivative while not looking exactly the same (even down to making sure that the painted examples don't look like a marine chapter etc.) And the proxy Rhino looks a lot less like an M113, compared to GWs own miniature, when you realise it all starts to get a bit silly and back towards Chapterhouse again..

GWs best defense against losing sales to 3D printing is, in my view, a wide range of reasonably priced and quality products for this game. If we get too much of the use of the word 'boutique' and the prices makes eyes water, even people without a printer will be off to Etsy or Vanguard etc.

 Pacific wrote:
I assume stuff like the ,'Orbital Knights' range (which look derivative, rather than identical) will still be safe?

Same with the Vanguard Miniatures range, if you are after proxies, where they have gone to great lengths to make them again look derivative while not looking exactly the same (even down to making sure that the painted examples don't look like a marine chapter etc.) And the proxy Rhino looks a lot less like an M113, compared to GWs own miniature, when you realise it all starts to get a bit silly and back towards Chapterhouse again..

GWs best defense against losing sales to 3D printing is, in my view, a wide range of reasonably priced and quality products for this game. If we get too much of the use of the word 'boutique' and the prices makes eyes water, even people without a printer will be off to Etsy or Vanguard etc.

Despite many claims, we can look to GW’s year end financials of late, and see that 3D printing may simply not be the threat claimed.

Accessibility is the key, I think. Whilst my best mate does have a very nice 3D setup, I don’t. When I was gathering vintage Epic Stuff, we were discussing using it to print off proxies, because it was that route, or try to source second hand and now collectors items original epic.

With this coming back? Certainly any Imperial Stuff I’ll just buy from GW, because it’s there. That’s my convenience. I can bimble down the road to my FLGS, or drive to Ashford for a branded Warhammer Store.

Xenos stuff? Yeah that’s going to be 3D printed for the foreseeable. But using which rules? And for organised play, will non-GW Tournaments allow them?

 Pacific wrote:
GWs best defense against losing sales to 3D printing is, in my view, a wide range of reasonably priced and quality products for this game. If we get too much of the use of the word 'boutique' and the prices makes eyes water, even people without a printer will be off to Etsy or Vanguard etc.

As simple as that, in my mind. Make it not be worth it.

Do you have looked for epic battle's on
You Tube you see a lot of 30K battle reports. The 30K battle reports are beter done than the 40K battle reports and with better painted minitures. but thats only my view on things.

"Theoretically you can play a small game, but its best played by purchasing every model kit in the range twice over, not forgetting our fabulous hobby accessories and would you know it - themed dice! We also recommend Citadel plastic glue and paints!"

Nice try GW.

Otherwise August is looking good.

I still find it interesting that templates apparently work in Epic too, but not 40k for some reason...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I still find it interesting that templates apparently work in Epic too, but not 40k for some reason...

As the return of USRs showed, most of the crowd currently decrying templates coming to 40k would instantly become their biggest fans if GW announced they were returning for 11th.

I could image that the templates are not only used for Artillery Bombardments or Heavy Weapons, but also (in combination with a scatter Dices) for placing Droppods.

I'm not sure for which weapons we need a Flame Template...?

RazorEdge wrote:
I could image that the templates are not only used for Artillery Bombardments or Heavy Weapons, but also (in combination with a scatter Dices) for placing Droppods.

I'm not sure for which weapons we need a Flame Template...?

Larger Warlord Titan Weapons (Mori Quake Cannon and Belicosa Volcano Cannon) and Inferno Cannons would use the large blast and flame template respectively

Warhound once had the option for the flamer, so that would be one for the template

Warhounds still have their Inferno Cannons. Surprisingly useful in AT when it comes to tackling shields/

Also I’m pretty sure Hellhounds in Epic (before they were a Basilisk variant*) used the flame template. May have been a custom, unit specific one.

*You heard me Originally the Basilisk chassis was the standard, with Chimeras being an adaptation of it from Titan Legions.

Apart from Titans having some appropriate flame weapons, I am sure we will see some bigger tanks and/or Mechanicum thingies using this template.

Also keep in mind that flyers will most likely have a variety of options for attacks other than mere strafing runs. I am willing to bet that one of the bomb types will use the flame template.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Also I’m pretty sure Hellhounds in Epic (before they were a Basilisk variant*) used the flame template.

Yes.

'Hellhound! Unleash your DRAGON Firethrower!'

 Albertorius wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
GWs best defense against losing sales to 3D printing is, in my view, a wide range of reasonably priced and quality products for this game. If we get too much of the use of the word 'boutique' and the prices makes eyes water, even people without a printer will be off to Etsy or Vanguard etc.

As simple as that, in my mind. Make it not be worth it.

yup, 100% this, I can print stuff, but if buying a box is not outrageously expensive I will take the time printing terrain instead, something like the old epic blue box of space marines, IIRC 10 frames of plastic for not an unreasonable price was pretty good and makes it simply not worth the time to print it

Whilst I also hope for a half decent price on the unit sets, however they shake out?

I’m not expecting Epic to be cheap. But I do hope for it to be reasonable.

So it’s on some form of record? I think, depending on contents, I’d be happy at £25-£35 per boxed set. Provided a single such box provides an in-game functional infantry company or squadron.

By all means give us the option to increase the base size of a given company or squadron. But I shouldn’t have to be buying more than a single box to field a single unit.

To give some kind of parameters? I think I’d be happy at £25ish for a squadron of Predators or Company of Astartes. A Super Heavy Tank Company, I’d probably be comfortable up to £40, depending on what the price to points ratio shakes out as.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Whilst I also hope for a half decent price on the unit sets, however they shake out?

I’m not expecting Epic to be cheap. But I do hope for it to be reasonable.

So it’s on some form of record? I think, depending on contents, I’d be happy at £25-£35 per boxed set. Provided a single such box provides an in-game functional infantry company or squadron.

By all means give us the option to increase the base size of a given company or squadron. But I shouldn’t have to be buying more than a single box to field a single unit.

To give some kind of parameters? I think I’d be happy at £25ish for a squadron of Predators or Company of Astartes. A Super Heavy Tank Company, I’d probably be comfortable up to £40, depending on what the price to points ratio shakes out as.

They'd be missing a trick for sure if they do not make a gimmicky box with about a chapter's worth of marines (i.e. one thousand bodies) in it for marketing purposes At 5 Marines per stand, that's 200 stands, probably a bit too much to be a good standard buy, but not so much too much that it would be totally absurd.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Whilst I also hope for a half decent price on the unit sets, however they shake out?

I’m not expecting Epic to be cheap. But I do hope for it to be reasonable.

So it’s on some form of record? I think, depending on contents, I’d be happy at £25-£35 per boxed set. Provided a single such box provides an in-game functional infantry company or squadron.

By all means give us the option to increase the base size of a given company or squadron. But I shouldn’t have to be buying more than a single box to field a single unit.

To give some kind of parameters? I think I’d be happy at £25ish for a squadron of Predators or Company of Astartes. A Super Heavy Tank Company, I’d probably be comfortable up to £40, depending on what the price to points ratio shakes out as.

They'd be missing a trick for sure if they do not make a gimmicky box with about a chapter's worth of marines (i.e. one thousand bodies) in it for marketing purposes At 5 Marines per stand, that's 200 stands, probably a bit too much to be a good standard buy, but not so much too much that it would be totally absurd.

Unless I've failed to pick up on something in heresy era fiction, isn't the 1000 body chapter somewhat of an explicitly *post* heresy force organization structure?

Kind of?

The Legions had Chapters as part of their overall structure. However, a Chapter being defined as 10 Companies of 10 squads of 10 Marines does come from the post-Heresy Codex Astartes. But, given the author of that august volume, I think we can comfortably say the Ultramarines Chapter was comprised of Companies each 1,000 (or thereabouts) Marines.

During the Heresy casualties and induction varied so wildly between Legion and indeed war zone I don’t think it was especially well defined? There would’ve been some standardisation with a given Legion if only for logistics. As in, if 5 companies were committed to a given battle or war zone, the Primarch and command would have a solid idea of how many boots on the grounds that would mean.

 Bolognesus wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Whilst I also hope for a half decent price on the unit sets, however they shake out?

I’m not expecting Epic to be cheap. But I do hope for it to be reasonable.

So it’s on some form of record? I think, depending on contents, I’d be happy at £25-£35 per boxed set. Provided a single such box provides an in-game functional infantry company or squadron.

By all means give us the option to increase the base size of a given company or squadron. But I shouldn’t have to be buying more than a single box to field a single unit.

To give some kind of parameters? I think I’d be happy at £25ish for a squadron of Predators or Company of Astartes. A Super Heavy Tank Company, I’d probably be comfortable up to £40, depending on what the price to points ratio shakes out as.

They'd be missing a trick for sure if they do not make a gimmicky box with about a chapter's worth of marines (i.e. one thousand bodies) in it for marketing purposes At 5 Marines per stand, that's 200 stands, probably a bit too much to be a good standard buy, but not so much too much that it would be totally absurd.

Unless I've failed to pick up on something in heresy era fiction, isn't the 1000 body chapter somewhat of an explicitly *post* heresy force organization structure?

What MDG said, it is specified in the post-Heresy Codex Astartes, but they have retconned a organizational unit called 'Chapter' with roughly thousand Marines in it into the Heresy. So they could do it if they wanted to, without too much deviation from existing background.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Warhounds still have their Inferno Cannons. Surprisingly useful in AT when it comes to tackling shields/

Also I’m pretty sure Hellhounds in Epic (before they were a Basilisk variant*) used the flame template. May have been a custom, unit specific one.

Yes, this little bad boy!



Any when I say bad boy, I mean bad boy! A badly position clan of Orks or Imperial Guard company, you could kiss them goodbye. I think they just hit on 5's, but consider that almost all infantry units in Space Marine 2nd ed had no saving throw.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Whilst I also hope for a half decent price on the unit sets, however they shake out?

I’m not expecting Epic to be cheap. But I do hope for it to be reasonable.

So it’s on some form of record? I think, depending on contents, I’d be happy at £25-£35 per boxed set. Provided a single such box provides an in-game functional infantry company or squadron.

By all means give us the option to increase the base size of a given company or squadron. But I shouldn’t have to be buying more than a single box to field a single unit.

To give some kind of parameters? I think I’d be happy at £25ish for a squadron of Predators or Company of Astartes. A Super Heavy Tank Company, I’d probably be comfortable up to £40, depending on what the price to points ratio shakes out as.

That's probably where I am too, and especially if you knock 20% off that from buying from the local store. I guess the markers of 'reasonable' and 'that's a criminal price' are probably a sliding scale for each of us. I do hope they keep it reasonable though, one of the reasons Epic used to be so popular back in the day (and actually why I and school friends favoured it over 40k) was that it was purchaseable with pocket money. I know a lot of people buying this now will be grown-up kids coming to it second time around, but hopefully they won't neglect the new kids coming into it too.

Yeah, epic boxes and blisters when I was in highschool (late 90's) mean I could grab a box of infantry for $10 or blisters for $6-$10 depending on what I was getting. I obviously don't expect those same prices but that was two hours of work back then as a kid so same scale I could see the same pricing MDG is saying as the reasonable range.

How much are titans?

The pair of warhounds was £45, same as the Cerastus pack. I can see that being bumped up to £50 and this being the baseline for a basic formation in the new Epic.

Warlords were £70. Seems likely the superheavy formations would match that.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Whilst I also hope for a half decent price on the unit sets, however they shake out?

I’m not expecting Epic to be cheap. But I do hope for it to be reasonable.

For anyone concerned about this, I'd say that discounted boxed sets for Epic are basically inevitable. Titanicus had several versions of them available covering titans, knights, and terrain*. It's why I'm not going wild with purchases like getting multiple core boxes on release, this stuff will be affordable sooner or later. Also just like AT, once the range has been expanded in 1-2 years time we also may well see a new core set released with different stuff.

Discounts are a question of when, not if.

*don't be surprised to see another Epic terrain bundle in the next few months as they try to entice players into the new format

Hulksmash wrote:Yeah, epic boxes and blisters when I was in highschool (late 90's) mean I could grab a box of infantry for $10 or blisters for $6-$10 depending on what I was getting. I obviously don't expect those same prices but that was two hours of work back then as a kid so same scale I could see the same pricing MDG is saying as the reasonable range.

For my own amusement, I worked out the hourly rate/cost for an epic blister in the 90s to my wage as it was then. Then, assuming the same pricing scale for the new kits as AI (€40 for 6/4 vehicles) and its not actually too different in the 'hourly cost'.

I don't know if that means I've managed to keep my wage up with inflation nicely, or I've continued to be seriously underpaid steadily for almost 30 years!

xttz wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Whilst I also hope for a half decent price on the unit sets, however they shake out?

I’m not expecting Epic to be cheap. But I do hope for it to be reasonable.

For anyone concerned about this, I'd say that discounted boxed sets for Epic are basically inevitable. Titanicus had several versions of them available covering titans, knights, and terrain*. It's why I'm not going wild with purchases like getting multiple core boxes on release, this stuff will be affordable sooner or later. Also just like AT, once the range has been expanded in 1-2 years time we also may well see a new core set released with different stuff.

Discounts are a question of when, not if.

*don't be surprised to see another Epic terrain bundle in the next few months as they try to entice players into the new format

I'm hoping and wouldn't be surprise if we even see bundle sets at Christmas. Especially big bundles on the AT stuff. If the knight household gets re-released, I'd be up for buying a lot more sets this time round!

I hope we see something that compliments the starter set though- a battleforce with a big unit of tanks & bikes to go with the infantry. I suspect we will see the warhounds in every single boxset though, there is always one model that you end up with too many off in these bundles! (Time for a warhound production factory terrain piece!)



I am curious if we will see gaming tiles/table again. I think they might be using the AT ones from forgeworld in the articles, but not familiar enough with them. If they do a bundle deal on tiles, or eveb better a plastic version like the necromunda ones, I would definitely get those this time round.

dunno about actual plastic tiles, however off the back of other games I can see folding paper/card type gaming mats

leopard wrote:
dunno about actual plastic tiles, however off the back of other games I can see folding paper/card type gaming mats

They mentioned model count but not table size which seems fishy to me tbh, I suspect it'll be either 4x4 or 6x4 otherwise they'd be drumming up marketing saying "use your existing play surface" type stuff.

With advertising that a normal game is 100+ pieces and one "piece" being a 25mm base or larger, it will be 6x4 at least