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James12345 wrote:

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

SU-152 wrote:
+ there is absolutely ZERO competitors that offer minis+rules, for games of massive battles and small minis.

Nope. Fan-made/supported versions of Epic exist and there are abundant third-party miniatures.

They are not competition to gw

This is patently false in the case of miniatures.

3D printed minis at this scale are direct competition and how GW prices their releases will reveal if they are as ignorant to this fact as you are.

If a few Dreads a couple Rapiers, and a couple ground assets cost $100+, GW can kiss this release goodbye.

GW can produce nothing in higher quality that someone can do at home and for $100 in resin they can cover their entire table.

Sure, not everyone has a 3d Printer, but I can toss $50 in any direction and someone will print that same kit.

Hell, the majority of the time, the STL files are on the internet before the GW release date for just about anything.

The STL repositories are VAST.

I genuinely question the overall impact of 3d printing on GW.

For stuff like Epic? For now it’s the most reliable way to furnish oneself with an army. No dispute there. Indeed given the vagaries of 2nd hand models (pricing can be wonky, if you can even find what you’re wanting) 3d printing has a strong appeal.

But once this game is released? They’re right there, man. Right there. On the shelf. Properly scaled, seemingly packaged as Entire Units. Provided of course we don’t have a Sky Hunter Jetbike issue where they’re released and then don’t come back in stock.

That’s an entirely different proposition, no?

And again with the pricing of pearl clutching. Price brackets only you are throwing out there, for reasons bests know to yourself.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But once this game is released? They’re right there, man. Right there. On the shelf. Properly scaled, seemingly packaged as Entire Units. Provided of course we don’t have a Sky Hunter Jetbike issue where they’re released and then don’t come back in stock.

That’s an entirely different proposition, no?

If you compare buying official minis to printing it yourself, yeah. Really it's people who are into 3D printing as its own hobby that are going to print their own armies.

But, print services are a thing. Looking on Battletech minis on Etsy, a printed battlemech goes for $6-8 and a tank for $4-6. 30x infantry runs about $10. Overall, pretty comparable to the official minis, but that's CGL, not GW.

Or if you have a buddy who owns even a $200 basic printer, they can print an Epic army in a weekend at quality indistinguishable to or better than plastic for a few bucks in resin and whatever they charge you for their time and machine use.

I think the popularity of printed alternatives will depend entirely on what the official pricing looks like.

 catbarf wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But once this game is released? They’re right there, man. Right there. On the shelf. Properly scaled, seemingly packaged as Entire Units. Provided of course we don’t have a Sky Hunter Jetbike issue where they’re released and then don’t come back in stock.

That’s an entirely different proposition, no?

If you compare buying official minis to printing it yourself, yeah. Really it's people who are into 3D printing as its own hobby that are going to print their own armies.

But, print services are a thing. Looking on Battletech minis on Etsy, a printed battlemech goes for $6-8 and a tank for $4-6. 30x infantry runs about $10. Overall, pretty comparable to the official minis, but that's CGL, not GW.

Or if you have a buddy who owns even a $200 basic printer, they can print an Epic army in a weekend at quality indistinguishable to or better than plastic for a few bucks in resin and whatever they charge you for their time and machine use.

I think the popularity of printed alternatives will depend entirely on what the official pricing looks like.

Expensive minis create 3D hobbyists though. Seriously 3d printing is a thing, people might balk at the price of a good resin 3d printer....but your first army should easily pay for that printer. Now 3d printing with resin isn't the easiest thing in the world, but its far from the hardest, and its keeps getting easier and more affordable. Printing high end 40k models is one thing, but still very doable pretty much without layer lines anymore. Printing Epic scale stuff is even easier by comparison, no only that, the time and the amount of resin used is so reduced with Epic scale miniatures. GW is doing a great job making these super detailed with lots of fiddly bits (looking at you dreadnought plasma cables) that will make them more difficult to print, Ill buy the release box just to support the game (also to help me figure out what scale to print), but that support box better have a tempting price or I'm just going to print them. pretty much for free.

Yet, the evidence just isn’t there.

The friends I have who own 3D printers aren’t printing GW proxies, but other stuff for painting only, or other games.

3d Printing has been around a while now, yet GW’s takings have been trending solidly upwards regardless.

Will folk be 3d printing proxies and/or knock offs (those being two different things)? Sure. But will it be the majority? Frankly, that’s looking doubtful.

We see this in other areas of luxury goods, with knock-offs and fakes being quite widely available, but not being the go-to option for those that can afford The Real McCoy.

Net result? It seems officialdom is still something many folk are willing to pay for.

Even is the box is $60, it's still cheaper to buy a couple bottles of resin and print entire armies at the same resolution or better.

Or toss that $60 to someone and still get more from literally anyone that can 3D print.

And considering the massive amount of problems GW seems to have keeping anything remotely popular on the shelf, no... it's not *right* there on the shelf.

Not to mention GW love to put things on Direct Order, and there's more DO than there is available for most of the systems (including HH) than just sitting on a FLGS shelf.

Dig I hang my pearls low enough for YOU to clutch now?

 TalonZahn wrote:
Even is the box is $60, it's still cheaper to buy a couple bottles of resin and print entire armies at the same resolution or better.

Or toss that $60 to someone and still get more from literally anyone that can 3D print.

And considering the massive amount of problems GW seems to have keeping anything remotely popular on the shelf, no... it's not *right* there on the shelf.

Not to mention GW love to put things on Direct Order, and there's more DO than there is available for most of the systems (including HH) than just sitting on a FLGS shelf.

Dig I hang my pearls low enough for YOU to clutch now?

Well, 60$ of resin doesn't get you far without stls and a printer, which also cost money.

You're right that you can buy 3d prints elsewhere, £9 for 3 sicarans, so if we assume the 3 preds, 2 sicarans and 4 dreads are a box/sprue at ~£35 then the gw option isn't actually much more expensive if at all.

The best question in all of this is why so aggressive?

We have done the 3d printing is killing the market and associated discussion a thousand times before, lets not do it again.

Getting back to the meat of the matter...

I'd actually like to see releases in a...

Shooty box

Assault box

Support box

...format.

Just get more of what you need.

Maybe Tank Box and Infantry Box will be the next two reveals?

I wonder if they'll be mixed infantry and tanks, or separate Marines and Auxilia boxes.

Sneak peek of the forthcoming Legion box!



Ps - my main hope for this release is that they have commissioned Paul Bonner to do loads of the B&W artwork of hundreds of tiny marines fighting each other, and the rulebook is full of it

 Pacific wrote:
Sneak peek of the forthcoming Legion box!



Ps - my main hope for this release is that they have commissioned Paul Bonner to do loads of the B&W artwork of hundreds of tiny marines fighting each other, and the rulebook is full of it

You had me for a moment there because hovering my mouse over the thread came up with "Sneak peek of the forthcoming Legion box!" and no picture, lol.

For some reason I can’t imagine GW to go back to that old artwork that showed the truly insane scale of some battles. It’ll probably be artwork as how we are used to seeing in the existing HH books.

 Malika2 wrote:
For some reason I can’t imagine GW to go back to that old artwork that showed the truly insane scale of some battles. It’ll probably be artwork as how we are used to seeing in the existing HH books.

That's funny, I always thought HH artwork so far was actually focused more on insane scale of battles more suited to Epic scale games than anything else.

Yeah, I mean, there are like 20-30 marines in the foreground, and one Reaver in the background.. that's like 4 to 6 infantry stands and a midsize titan, hardly anything Epic

The HH Trailer is the quinessence of this "massive Battle" trope.

Sorry AllSeeingSkink! I thought the thread was in need of a bit of levity.

While we are at it then, Xenos confirmed



On artwork, judging from the HH 2.0 rulebook release, I'll just settle for any artwork at all! I don't think I had ever seen a book from GW that has ever had less in it, an absolutely soul-less book.

Ooooh. How about a Recon Company type thing? Bikes and Jetbikes and Landspeeders.

Space Marine Bikes used to be great for running enemy infantry over.

Yes that would be cool! I think in all of my games the first turn would see a bikers/Eldar windrider host/squat bikers/Ork bikers melee battle in the middle of the table, the winner of which would then be free to be annoying for their opponent by going for artillery or last turn objective grabs.

Perhaps then if they did something like this (last posting of old box images I promise!) I love that for this they seemingly must have commissioned some art for just this boxset, of Orks Vs Marines and then some Chaos Androids turning up to the party too

Hopefully not quite so eclectic 😂😂

Was a good box if you had multiple armies (and I did!) or had friends who might be interested in splitting it.

Sarouan wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
For some reason I can’t imagine GW to go back to that old artwork that showed the truly insane scale of some battles. It’ll probably be artwork as how we are used to seeing in the existing HH books.

That's funny, I always thought HH artwork so far was actually focused more on insane scale of battles more suited to Epic scale games than anything else.

I think the 'artwork' from the HH and Necromunda books really show what you can do with objective driven narrative photography, but it still doesn't convey the scale of those battles.

It doesn't come near this level of intensity:

It doesn't come near this level of intensity:

I'd forgotten about that art. The impact of the box cover (and the White Dwarf) on the shelf... glorious, simply glorious.

Just realised that today is the first Sunday we could get confirmation of the preorder date, personally I think it’s going to be in the Sunday Preview on 6th August.

Whether it's this week or next, I hope August's free mini is a tiny space marine.

I’m kind of expecting it End Of August myself. Tie into payday.

I could well be wrong!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m kind of expecting it End Of August myself. Tie into payday.

I could well be wrong!

I reckon that late August is more likely to switch back to 40k/Tyranid hype. Preorders on Aug 29th would still fit the 'Autumn' release date and hit payday well.

Today is probably either the plastic Cerastus or AOS Sigmar launch box as they were shown off first. Betting July 30th or Aug 6th for Epic.

Don't forget, Xttz, that there's also still the Leagues of Votann and Beastmen KTs to release separately along with Nightmare Quest's stuff.

There's a good chunk of stuff revealed before both of those two items that could be coming.

GW have been known to drop things like that alongside HH releases, so there's no reason they can't be in the same week as the Cerastus kit.

I'm guessing the Warcry starter set. Was hoping for it last Sunday...

SamusDrake wrote:
I'm guessing the Warcry starter set. Was hoping for it last Sunday...

You win!

We’ve got all sorts of wonderful articles for you next week on Warhammer Community. There’s another reveal for Cities of Sigmar and Necromunda, more miniatures for Legions Imperialis, alongside an interview with the Warhammer studio about designing tiny tanks for this new scale of battle, and plenty of excellent articles all about the best hobby in the world.