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So with how prolific and passionate they are, what are people's guesses for how long it will take for the NetEpic/NetEA communities to get the army lists of the past to be broadly compatible? We've got four really large armies, and I would love an excuse to bring them to the game store. :-)

Man... these rules seem so promising... I am going to buy sooooooo much LI stuff so long as GW doesn't do anything catastrophically stupid.

 Sotahullu wrote:
I wonder if you can take entire detachment of Assault Marines, load them in Thunderhawk(s) and drop them behind enemy lines to mess them up or, better yet, on top of an Warlord Titan?

Well last part is probably very stupid idea but coolness factor makes it worth it.

You used to! It's hard to imagine that you can't do that in this edition. It may be a detachment in it's own right or part of an 'Air Assault' detachment. It's probably a suicide run*, but definately, it's a cool image.

*The Thunderhawk has to survive any anti-air weaponry and maybe defensive aircraft. Then, the last few marine stands may have enough dice to beat the Warlord, they may not do enough damage to kill it, and even if they do, they're standing next to a falling titan.

Forget the Thunderhawk, just drop a dozen drop pods on its back. Especially if their deathwind, so all the missiles explode when they connect...

I'm just constantly pressing refresh on different pages to get prices.

The rules, so far, looks good and I like the concept of the new epic scale but the price alone is what will break/make the game for me.

 Zewrath wrote:
I'm just constantly pressing refresh on different pages to get prices.

The rules, so far, looks good and I like the concept of the new epic scale but the price alone is what will break/make the game for me.

you won't gat a hint of prices until the day after the "Next Week's Preorder" announcement on who-knows-which Sunday evening (in the UK). Traders will have their prices lists emailed to them on Monday morning and they're soon out in the wild. That is the time to start looking for prices....

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So with how prolific and passionate they are, what are people's guesses for how long it will take for the NetEpic/NetEA communities to get the army lists of the past to be broadly compatible? We've got four really large armies, and I would love an excuse to bring them to the game store. :-)

Man... these rules seem so promising... I am going to buy sooooooo much LI stuff so long as GW doesn't do anything catastrophically stupid.

Do you mean make compatible with the Xenos armies for those games and things like that? One of the NetEA guys has said they are going to just use the new minis. I did ask if the Epic tournaments (which are a good way of playing Epic if you are in the UK) are going to continue and in which format, but didn't receive a reply.

I will ask Peter Ramos & Co. (Of NetEpic and Imperialis Dominatus fame) if they are going to adapt Xenos for the new game, I am sure though that someone will do something when the dust settles. The question is though then, like so many of these things, if any of the new Epic player influx will be interested in thoae rules because they are community written and were not official.

I'm sure, that given the apparent closeness of Legions Imperialis to 2nd edition that it won't be too long before there is a 'NetEpic5' or 'NetLI' or 'NetEpic23' with converted lists of old armies for the new system.... but if you're going 'off piste' then you can probably cobble something close enough yourself anyway.

I suspect that Titans might always have an additional Fire First order baked into them. That way they can blast the assault units before they can strike.

 stonehorse wrote:
I suspect that Titans might always have an additional Fire First order baked into them. That way they can blast the assault units before they can strike.

Certainly in the old 'Titan Legions' era, command stands didn't receive orders, they were considered to by on all the orders, all the time (not fall back though - which was really more of a condition, rather than an order).

To stop titans being swamped by mooks there might a limit on how many stands can gang up on a larger model - in Epic Armageddon it twice the number of wounds...

 Sotahullu wrote:
I wonder if you can take entire detachment of Assault Marines, load them in Thunderhawk(s) and drop them behind enemy lines to mess them up or, better yet, on top of an Warlord Titan?

Well last part is probably very stupid idea but coolness factor makes it worth it.

It would be more prudent to assault artillery in that way. Titans are really strong in melee AND you can´t pin it in close combat with assault marines. So if the Titan has Orders which involve movement the Titan can just step out of close combat with your marines and proceed as planned. Only Titans can pin Titans in melee. Same applies to superheavy tanks. They can only be pinned in place by the same size category of models or bigger.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
I wonder if you can take entire detachment of Assault Marines, load them in Thunderhawk(s) and drop them behind enemy lines to mess them up or, better yet, on top of an Warlord Titan?

Well last part is probably very stupid idea but coolness factor makes it worth it.

It would be more prudent to assault artillery in that way. Titans are really strong in melee AND you can´t pin it in close combat with assault marines. So if the Titan has Orders which involve movement the Titan can just step out of close combat with your marines and proceed as planned. Only Titans can pin Titans in melee. Same applies to superheavy tanks. They can only be pinned in place by the same size category of models or bigger.

Maybe, we don’t know yet how that works.

MarkNorfolk wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
I'm just constantly pressing refresh on different pages to get prices.

The rules, so far, looks good and I like the concept of the new epic scale but the price alone is what will break/make the game for me.

you won't gat a hint of prices until the day after the "Next Week's Preorder" announcement on who-knows-which Sunday evening (in the UK). Traders will have their prices lists emailed to them on Monday morning and they're soon out in the wild. That is the time to start looking for prices....

Even better.you can at same time go to gw site andcheck prices. Flgs won't bother leaking prices when anybody can check on owx.

 stonehorse wrote:
I suspect that Titans might always have an additional Fire First order baked into them. That way they can blast the assault units before they can strike.

I suppose stuff like the Ardex Defensor cannons, arrays and whatnot will be on perma-overwatch. From the Warbringer Nemesis-class upwards, Titans pack about a light tank squadrons worth of point-defense and tertiary armaments, that ought be enough to fend off at least unsupported chaff units.

 Pacific wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So with how prolific and passionate they are, what are people's guesses for how long it will take for the NetEpic/NetEA communities to get the army lists of the past to be broadly compatible? We've got four really large armies, and I would love an excuse to bring them to the game store. :-)

Man... these rules seem so promising... I am going to buy sooooooo much LI stuff so long as GW doesn't do anything catastrophically stupid.

Do you mean make compatible with the Xenos armies for those games and things like that? One of the NetEA guys has said they are going to just use the new minis. I did ask if the Epic tournaments (which are a good way of playing Epic if you are in the UK) are going to continue and in which format, but didn't receive a reply.

I will ask Peter Ramos & Co. (Of NetEpic and Imperialis Dominatus fame) if they are going to adapt Xenos for the new game, I am sure though that someone will do something when the dust settles. The question is though then, like so many of these things, if any of the new Epic player influx will be interested in thoae rules because they are community written and were not official.

You asked in TacCom, a practically dead forum.

If someone adapts Xenos for Epic: LI, it is likely to be Epic: LI players. So I would wait and see what kind of renewed community is formed.

MaxT wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
I wonder if you can take entire detachment of Assault Marines, load them in Thunderhawk(s) and drop them behind enemy lines to mess them up or, better yet, on top of an Warlord Titan?

Well last part is probably very stupid idea but coolness factor makes it worth it.

It would be more prudent to assault artillery in that way. Titans are really strong in melee AND you can´t pin it in close combat with assault marines. So if the Titan has Orders which involve movement the Titan can just step out of close combat with your marines and proceed as planned. Only Titans can pin Titans in melee. Same applies to superheavy tanks. They can only be pinned in place by the same size category of models or bigger.

Maybe, we don’t know yet how that works.

That´s the way it worked in the 90s. Bringing back CAF is an indicator that the other melee rules will be in place too.

 Sotahullu wrote:
I wonder if you can take entire detachment of Assault Marines, load them in Thunderhawk(s) and drop them behind enemy lines to mess them up or, better yet, on top of an Warlord Titan?

From the WarCom article (emphasis mine):

The Legion Demi-Company is the most flexible Formation available to the Legiones Astartes, though there are many Formations to choose from, including the specialised Legion Armoured Company and Legion Aerial Assault.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Meanwhile they eliminated opposed rolls from actual one on one games like Necromunda.

People need to face the possibility that GW don't actually have any particularly clever method of rules design besides sticking a bunch of random mechanics on a wall and throwing darts.

Mechanics tend to drift between systems and get refined or dropped as a result. AOS has a fixed to hit and to wound roll? 40k gets the fixed to hit in the next edition while keeping variable to wound. Move stat is introduced to 40k, previously in fantasy, and then appears in HHv2.

They're trying to make it easier for people who play multiple games but aren't huge gamers. My wife never really played board games or video games before meeting me. She tried necromunda and liked it, then read some of my codexes and wanted to play 40k. Then she dug into my closet and found my 30k and titanicus stuff and got interested in those. She sees AoS models at the FLGS that she would enjoy painting. It's sooo much easier for me to teach her several games when they all have similar aspects. She can look at a unit or weapon profile from almost any GW game and at least have a basic grasp of what that thing does and what all the stats mean. If I tried to teach her Warmachine or Infinity, it would be a much longer process because they really don't share any mechanics with the GW games other than rolling dice to hit and kill stuff.

I would expect an "Assault Demi-Company" for those Close Combat Legions like World Eaters or Blood Angels. Space Marine Line Troops with Chainswords & Bolt pistols (but without Jump Packs).

I am looking at trying to understand creating a list based on the WarCom "Demi Company" preview and the launch box. From the pastbin leak, it has a "Detachment Size" column that I assume is the number of stands in a detachment. Astartes looks to have typically 4 stands for each infantry attachment. The launch box appears to only have 2 stands of plasma support and 2 stands of missile launcher support. This doesn't appear to be a legal set of stands for a formation, especially based on this Demi Company which requires 1 support detachment. Or "Detachment Size" is something else and the detachments are actually 2 stands each?

Hoping someone more familiar with SM2 might be able to comment on how this works.

The old, place drop pod markers on blast marker and turn over could be an effective method in 2nd ed for taking out vehicles but if I remember, each pod that landed on a titan base only removed one shield, what happened unshielded I dont remember. Close assaulting titans with infantry was pretty hard as you had to hope the Titan moved first so you could engage them in close combat as you could not pin them, plus they always had the effect of first fire orders. I remember I had some hopped up chaos juggers that through one of the chaos card I gave some insane bonus to caf....got greedy charged them at a warhound....who just walked away before the combat could take place.

If you allow a company of assault marines in three thunderhawks to get to your warlord unmolested....you kind of deserve to lose that warlord. If I remember the old flying brick thunderhawks only had a 4+ save. Definately a risk to transport a whole detachment in for very long.

Is this turn sequence the same as second.....it look s different? I haven't had a chance to look it up. First Fire being effectively overwatch needs to be a thing for sure.

hams wrote:

I am looking at trying to understand creating a list based on the WarCom "Demi Company" preview and the launch box. From the pastbin leak, it has a "Detachment Size" column that I assume is the number of stands in a detachment. Astartes looks to have typically 4 stands for each infantry attachment. The launch box appears to only have 2 stands of plasma support and 2 stands of missile launcher support. This doesn't appear to be a legal set of stands for a formation, especially based on this Demi Company which requires 1 support detachment. Or "Detachment Size" is something else and the detachments are actually 2 stands each?

Hoping someone more familiar with SM2 might be able to comment on how this works.

Not going to be much help here. IIRC, SM2 had a generic "Devastator Detachment", and all of the stands had identical stats. Also, I seem to recall that the tactical detachment was half stands with pure boltguns, and half stands with support weapons (but not the same as a Devastator stand). Pairing one of each together represented the standard loadout in a tactical squad of ten marines.

As far as the missiles and plasma weapons stands go in the preview pic, it makes me wonder if you can mix and match which stands are in your Support Detachment. Maybe the paste bin leak unit list is largely correct, but still incomplete? Or maybe you can take variable numbers of infantry in a detachment, and two is just as legal as four? I'm skeptical that they would only include a partial detachment in the starter, particularly since it appears that blisters and boxes sold for the new game are supposed to include at least the minimum number of figures in a particular unit.

SU-152 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So with how prolific and passionate they are, what are people's guesses for how long it will take for the NetEpic/NetEA communities to get the army lists of the past to be broadly compatible? We've got four really large armies, and I would love an excuse to bring them to the game store. :-)

Man... these rules seem so promising... I am going to buy sooooooo much LI stuff so long as GW doesn't do anything catastrophically stupid.

Do you mean make compatible with the Xenos armies for those games and things like that? One of the NetEA guys has said they are going to just use the new minis. I did ask if the Epic tournaments (which are a good way of playing Epic if you are in the UK) are going to continue and in which format, but didn't receive a reply.

I will ask Peter Ramos & Co. (Of NetEpic and Imperialis Dominatus fame) if they are going to adapt Xenos for the new game, I am sure though that someone will do something when the dust settles. The question is though then, like so many of these things, if any of the new Epic player influx will be interested in thoae rules because they are community written and were not official.

You asked in TacCom, a practically dead forum.

If someone adapts Xenos for Epic: LI, it is likely to be Epic: LI players. So I would wait and see what kind of renewed community is formed.

Practically dead yes, but the guys that write the community rules still post on there.

Going on what happened with the Necromunda updates, Yaktribe continued as the hub of the community rules development and discussion, so it will be interesting what happens with Epic.

hams wrote:

I am looking at trying to understand creating a list based on the WarCom "Demi Company" preview and the launch box. From the pastbin leak, it has a "Detachment Size" column that I assume is the number of stands in a detachment. Astartes looks to have typically 4 stands for each infantry attachment. The launch box appears to only have 2 stands of plasma support and 2 stands of missile launcher support. This doesn't appear to be a legal set of stands for a formation, especially based on this Demi Company which requires 1 support detachment. Or "Detachment Size" is something else and the detachments are actually 2 stands each?

Hoping someone more familiar with SM2 might be able to comment on how this works.

The leak has assault marines, terminators, and leviathans listed twice with detachment sizes of "4" and "+2". If you take 4 stands they count as a detachment by themselves, but the +2 option allows them to be added to another detachment.

Presumably the leaks are incomplete, and the same add-on system will apply to support squads and other units too.

its perfectly possible the stuff in the box isn't technically a game legal army, but is designed for "starter scenarios" also in the box

Wouldn't that be great >_>

Their social media reps on the Forge World FB-page have already confirmed that the contents of the box can make up a special formation even if they'd be hard pressed to allow you much freedom otherwise. Nothing a couple more purchases couldn't fix, wink.

So as one might expect, the box is a taster platter of varied stuff that you need to expand in order to make proper armies from.

RazorEdge wrote:
I would expect an "Assault Demi-Company" for those Close Combat Legions like World Eaters or Blood Angels. Space Marine Line Troops with Chainswords & Bolt pistols (but without Jump Packs).

This may be the way to disappointment. Epic doesn´t indulge players in such details. There is even a high chance that the core game won´t include rules for specific Legions.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/02/legions-imperialis-a-closer-look-at-the-legiones-astartes/

Nice. Once again I’m somehow unable to find the pastebin, but I think it’s looking all but confirmed?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also confirms the boxed set isn’t a regular force, as you only get two bases of Terminators.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nice. Once again I’m somehow unable to find the pastebin, but I think it’s looking all but confirmed?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also confirms the boxed set isn’t a regular force, as you only get two bases of Terminators.

Maybe a half force of marines and half of SA (2 sprues of each), with separate infantry boxes later being 4 sprues?