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Not previewing the rules eliminates the chance of previewing the wrong (recalled) book.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Lovely sculpts, but again, 4 to a box is rookie numbers.

4 to a box is the number of standard landraiders you got to a box in Epic: Armageddon with the metal updates. Just sayin

 vadersson wrote:
I really wish there was a bit more meat to these previews. No stat line, no points, nothing about transport cap, etc. sigh, just pretty pictures. I want rules people!

At this point one would suspect that means they ain't on the main book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Lovely sculpts, but again, 4 to a box is rookie numbers.

4 to a box is the number of standard landraiders you got to a box in Epic: Armageddon with the metal updates. Just sayin

One of the reasons E:A didn't sell well was because it was insanely expensive. Just sayin.

As a GW employee at the time Epic sold super well for us before they pulled it to a battle bunker only item along with BFG and the other specialist games. Granted this was the US so who knows.

Also EA was a different beast. Those 4 tanks were 400pts which is over 12%ish of a standard game.

Epic EA was actually cheaper than 40k to play even at that time.

 Hulksmash wrote:
As a GW employee at the time Epic sold super well for us before they pulled it to a battle bunker only item along with BFG and the other specialist games. Granted this was the US so who knows.

Also EA was a different beast. Those 4 tanks were 400pts which is over 12%ish of a standard game.

Epic EA was actually cheaper than 40k to play even at that time.

As a GW employee at the time, Epic 40k sold very well here as well. Then came E:A, they moved everything to Specialist Games, stopped selling any plastics whatsoever and went full metal or FW resin, both coming with a hefty markup.

And overnight, it tanked. HARD.

Epic vs. E:A are completely different time frames. One was last big when I was 14 and the other came out when I was 20 or 21.

Also the main factions had recut plastic infantry boxsets. The vehicles went all metal and some specialist infantry but it was still cheaper to play than 40k even at the cheaper cost at the time that was 40k.

Xirix wrote:
Interesting, they sculpted the Laser Destroyers.

Yeah, I like them. Maybe they could do a quick set of full size ones that people can use on the plastic kits if they want to run Laser Destroyer sponsons?

No HB nose though?

 Hulksmash wrote:
Epic vs. E:A are completely different time frames. One was last big when I was 14 and the other came out when I was 20 or 21.

Yeah. And I was talking specifically about E:A, as my post states.

Also the main factions had recut plastic infantry boxsets. The vehicles went all metal and some specialist infantry but it was still cheaper to play than 40k even at the cheaper cost at the time that was 40k.

It was very much not, here in Spain, as you had to order to Specialist Games, which meant ordering directly from UK, as Direct Order Spain had already disbanded.

Over here at least E:A stuff more than doubled price from the E:40k era, plus it came in bigger boxes (full detachments, IIRC), instead of blisters. So all the people that did impulse buys didn't buy anymore, for one, as it wasn't in the stores.

There was almost no new players either as, again, not sold in the store anymore.

A lot of the people that did play stopped doing it because many played in the Battle Bunkers and as, again, it wasn't sold in the stores anymore, we got told they couldn't play.

And well, the prices, which more than doubled from one day to the next, made you direct order it, made you buy more than you wanted (because to qualify for free shipping you had to buy a lot, and because they made bigger boxes)... E:A got killed dead pretty quick, here.

the weird bit was when GW started to put out what were effectively metal recasts of the plastics

leopard wrote:
the weird bit was when GW started to put out what were effectively metal recasts of the plastics

Yeah, the metal infantry were weird that way. Just recast plastic models they'd removed from the plastic sprues (Aspect Warriors, Terminators, Scouts, etc).

 Hulksmash wrote:

leopard wrote:
the weird bit was when GW started to put out what were effectively metal recasts of the plastics

Yeah, the metal infantry were weird that way. Just recast plastic models they'd removed from the plastic sprues (Aspect Warriors, Terminators, Scouts, etc).

and pretty low quality ones, that was I think the era though when GW had yet to bring plastic in house so this way was likely more profitable for them

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/12/heresy-thursday-deliver-and-destroy-with-a-new-legions-imperialis-tank/

Join us next Thursday for another Heresy Thursday, which will reveal more for Legions Imperialis.

Love these.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 kodos wrote:
it is not about defending GW, but why are the people grumbling with GW doing the same as always
nothing changed, everything the same, yet people are angry because they did not expect GW being GW

GW sales models vary wildly game to game. They're not trying to sell you half a faction in Underworlds, BB, Warcy, Kill Team, HH... so let us just have our regret over Legions apparently going in the worst DLC treadmill tier along with Necromunda.

Underworlds, BB, Warcry, and Kill Team all require you to buy supplement books to keep up with additional wargear options, strategem, and other rules, etc. You don't technically "need" those rules, sure, but if thats the argument you are going to take, I will counter that you don't technically "need" drop pods either.

Including HH in that list though - lolwut? You want to field a Legion Inductii squad or Ducrions in your astartes list? You gotta buy the $60 Siege of Cthonia supplement. You want to field Fulgrim transfigured or corrupted Legiones Hereticus in your Emperors Children army, or Sanctifier squads in your Salamanders army, or Nemesis Destroyers in your Ultramarines, or Dominator Termies in your Iron Warriors, or Atramentars in your Night Lords, or Red Hand Destroyers in your World Eaters? Going to need to buy the Exemplary Battles Volume 1 book for probably another $60 when it launches for pre-order this weekend - and note that those Iron Warriors, Ultamarines, World Eaters, and Night Lords units existed in the previous edition of the game, so they aren't "new". GW has also stated that many of the units in the Legacies pdf's will eventually be revised/updated and published in forthcoming supplements - the Astartes legacy pdf alone contains 70-80 additional units, if I were to guess thats probably as many units as are currently in the supposedly "complete" Legiones Astartes army list published for the game so far - so yeah, they absolutely did sell you "half a faction".

SamusDrake wrote:

LordBlunt wrote:
Hey guys,
While I haven't read the entirety of this thread, when will Eldar and possibly Tau get released for Legions Imperialis you think?
Given that the game is just about to release in the coming months, would it be safe to think we might get Eldar (or additional races) by next summer?

Not for Legions Imperialis as it's set in the 30K era and not even released yet, but Titanicus is looking very stale these days with it's limited(shared) Imperial range. While there are still 30K era options left to explore, they're not enough to keep the game going in the long term and especially with Legions offering the same units.

Realistically they could go for another 2-3 years, at least, in Adeptus Titanicus just sticking to Horus Heresy Traitor/Imperium content before they need to consider xenos. Theres like a half dozen known titan variants (and a handful of known Knight/Armiger types) that can be added to the game, even before you get into variant designs and corrupted versions. They have a lot of tooth left before they would need to get into Xenos. The fact that it will pull double duty with the LI crowd makes it far more appealing to GW from an ROI standpoint than it does to add stompas or eldar titans, etc.

And there is also the possibility of Aeronautica returning for a new edition. Even more so than Titanicus, Aeronautica had quickly exhausted it's 30K options. While Epic 40K is not likely to happen for a while yet, Aeronautica is still a good option for GW in the meantime. There is a player base out there between both previous editions, with many models still going to be available in the Legions range. If they look back to the original edition, and remove those bloody hexmaps, there's no reason 40K Aeronautica can't keep us entertained in the meantime...

Theres still quite a bit of HH content that could be released for AI yet. The decision to discontinue all the xenos stuff at this stage honestly does not bode well for the game in the short/medium term. I think they will eventually relaunch a 2nd edition of AI in a 40k setting, but probably not for 3-5 years at least if I were to guess. When they do so though, I think it might be a good indication that 40k xenos might be getting added to AT or LI within another 3-5 years of that point.

 Albertorius wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Gw denies even planning something until they announce it next day. Not most reliable sources for never if you believe their never then gw would never release anything.

Well, what I believe is that they've said the same for all the games set in 30k, and so far, no xenos in sight for any of them, so...

AI was specifically not set in 30k and had xenos from the start.

Indeed, and keep in mind that HH has been going for about 15 years with nary a xenos in sight.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Including HH in that list though - lolwut? You want to field a Legion Inductii squad or Ducrions in your astartes list? You gotta buy the $60 Siege of Cthonia supplement. You want to field Fulgrim transfigured or corrupted Legiones Hereticus in your Emperors Children army, or Sanctifier squads in your Salamanders army, or Nemesis Destroyers in your Ultramarines, or Dominator Termies in your Iron Warriors, or Atramentars in your Night Lords, or Red Hand Destroyers in your World Eaters? Going to need to buy the Exemplary Battles Volume 1 book for probably another $60 when it launches for pre-order this weekend - and note that those Iron Warriors, Ultamarines, World Eaters, and Night Lords units existed in the previous edition of the game, so they aren't "new". GW has also stated that many of the units in the Legacies pdf's will eventually be revised/updated and published in forthcoming supplements - the Astartes legacy pdf alone contains 70-80 additional units, if I were to guess thats probably as many units as are currently in the supposedly "complete" Legiones Astartes army list published for the game so far - so yeah, they absolutely did sell you "half a faction".

I must have missed the part where we were talking about legion-specific units instead of general stuff available to all of them.

The Legacies list includes like 40 or so generic units so, yeah, thats included too.

chaos0xomega wrote:
The Legacies list includes like 40 or so generic units so, yeah, thats included too.

As generic as what, please? I'll admit nothing really jumped at me on the two Astartes books as being out from generic units.

Its literally a free pdf you can download from Warcom, take a look for yourself. Off the top of my head, Legion Medusas and Basilisks, Caestus Assault Ram, Thunderhawk Transporter, Land Raider Achilles and Phobos, etc.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Its literally a free pdf you can download from Warcom, take a look for yourself. Off the top of my head, Legion Medusas and Basilisks, Caestus Assault Ram, Thunderhawk Transporter, Land Raider Achilles and Phobos, etc.

Ah, thanks, I must have forgotten about that file. If they do the same here, it would be kinda nice. Oher than the medusas it seems mostly variants of vehicles already included, right?

Its also off topic so drop it.

White Dwarf leak of the battle report for LI:

Cool, a 3000 points game. Size of armies is relevant to what you fielded on the battlefield in a "regular" old Epic edition game. Without surprise, it uses a lot of boxes. It will be interesting to read.

Sarouan wrote:
Cool, a 3000 points game. Size of armies is relevant to what you fielded on the battlefield in a "regular" old Epic edition game. Without surprise, it uses a lot of boxes. It will be interesting to read.

Makes me wonder what the price of a 3000pt army is.
That BA army has 16 drop pods. Was it 4 in a box? Probably £30+. That's £120 just on tiny drop pods.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

Makes me wonder what the price of a 3000pt army is.
That BA army has 16 drop pods. Was it 4 in a box? Probably £30+. That's £120 just on tiny drop pods.

4 in a box according to Warhammer Community preview. As for the price...that is still unknown.

This battle report shows a lot of variety in terms of unit types and rules. It should give a good feeling of what the game offers.

Sarouan wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

Makes me wonder what the price of a 3000pt army is.
That BA army has 16 drop pods. Was it 4 in a box? Probably £30+. That's £120 just on tiny drop pods.

4 in a box according to Warhammer Community preview. As for the price...that is still unknown.

Yeah... £30 at this point is, I think, a conservative estimation.

The size of the armies seem properly Epic, particularly for Space Marines. Not sure that the rules leaked so far will be very conductive to play at that size within a feasible time frame...

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
Cool, a 3000 points game. Size of armies is relevant to what you fielded on the battlefield in a "regular" old Epic edition game. Without surprise, it uses a lot of boxes. It will be interesting to read.

Makes me wonder what the price of a 3000pt army is.
That BA army has 16 drop pods. Was it 4 in a box? Probably £30+. That's £120 just on tiny drop pods.

I'm guessing the boxes all have the same price as the aeronautica ones so £30.
For the launch box I'm guessing the Predators/Sicarans and the Malcadors/Leman Russes won't be in dual boxes but individual boxes instead with double the number of models. This way it would be 2 sprues per box which seems in line with Aeronautica. The SM infantry and the Contemptors are on the same sprue doubled up so likely to be the same number in their individual box. Guessing the same to be true for the SA infantry/sentinels/ogryns.

For the Blood Angels that would be:
2-3 boxes of Kratos depending if its true that there are 4 inside, I'll calculate with 4 per box here -- £60
2 boxes of Predators -- £60
3 boxes of Sicarans -- £90
1 box of Xiphons -- £30
2 boxes of SM fast attack -- £60
6 boxes of SM Infantry -- £180 (Mainly because the list has 12 Terminator stands and with the breakdown above there would only be 2 stands per infantry box. If there are double the miniatures inside this price halves)
4 boxes of Drop Pods -- £120
1 box of Fire Raptors -- £30
1 Reaver Titan -- £37.5

Sum -- £667.5

Opposing side:
3 boxes of SM Infantry -- £90 (Depending if those Tactical Detachments are only Tactical Squads or if there are also Missile/Plasma/Assault Marines in there this could be lower)
1 box of SM Support -- £30 (Dreads/Tarantulas/Rapiers)
1 box of Fire Raptors -- £30
1 box of Rhinos -- £30
1 box of Kratos -- £30
1 box of Sicaran -- £30
1 box of Storm Eagles -- £30
1 box of Xiphons -- £30
2 boxes of Predators -- £60
1 box of SA Infantry -- £30
1 box of Leman Russes -- £30
1 box of SA Support -- £30 (Rapiers)
1 Reaver Titan -- £37.5

Sum -- £487.5

The second list is cheaper as it took less models because multiple smaller units = less bulk discounts

So I would guess on average around £500 for 3000pts as the above lists also have a few stands left over (For example Xiphons are 6 per box but both lists only used 3)

Of course, these are just guesses that don't take into account any kind of discount you may have, depending on where you buy or in case of "bundle boxes", and also assuming everything in that battle report will be actually available right at launch (given it involves at least one expansion book for the rules, it's not a given).

Still, we're talking about GW, we know it will be expensive and it is about building a collection over time.

I believe I'll start with 1000 points game first, personnally speaking.

I really hope we don't see £30 as a baseline for boxes. The game will be far too expensive although I think most of this will get sold as formations so may work out cheaper all bundled in?

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I really hope we don't see £30 as a baseline for boxes. The game will be far too expensive although I think most of this will get sold as formations so may work out cheaper all bundled in?

There will be people selling separate parts of the "starter box" second-handed for a bit cheaper than single boxes, as well.

It's not really worth it to worry about that now, when we are only left with guesses that try to use "standard prices" as if they actually meant anything when you really start building your collection once stuff is sold online.

And if everything is way too expensive for you, you still have 3D printing / 3rd party coming to your rescue (assuming you still want to invest in that game, of course).

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I really hope we don't see £30 as a baseline for boxes. The game will be far too expensive although I think most of this will get sold as formations so may work out cheaper all bundled in?

I actually think that it's plausible that it will be more... £30 as a baseline takes ito account AI boxes... but those were released a while ago already, and if GW is consistent on anything, is on "upgrading" price brackets with each new release.

Is it just the angle, or is the vmb on the reaver titan look different from the resin kit?