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Jaxmeister wrote:
My little gaming group bought between us 14 boxed sets of LI plus multiple other titans, Rhinos etc.
Guess how many damaged components we had? Zero, nil, nada.

Ah yes, the "I didn't have a problem, so therefore there is no problem" argument.

Box was poorly packed, nothing much more to it than that.

If you try to save a few bucks using an unlicensed trader then don't blame gw for your mistake.

Or a genuine trade partner of GW?

Stuff probably got damaged in postage because it was packaged poorly, and if I'd bought direct from GW then they would have been using the same shipping services as everyone else.

I dunno if GW still in house has courier services for their own stores, they used to, so maybe if you bought from a brick and mortar store not far from the distribution centre it got handled better? I dunno, in any case, the poor packing is to blame here.

And really it's annoying to preorder a thing and have it arrive damaged, if someone didn't want it NOW then they probably wouldn't have bothered preordering it, so having to open the box to broken stuff and then stop, contact GW/the store/whatever and wait to figure out the procedure, it's pretty annoying at the best of times. They just should have packed the stuff better.

It depends on how you build. If you want lots of infantry or "special" infantry, you will pay out the ass.

If you stock up your list with Min/Max gak like huge tanks, titans, and flyers it would definitely cost less.

$$ for points, not too hard to figure out what's going to cost more money.

It's same across all their systems.....

Also, we haven't even begun(!) to get into what *actual* armies will cost when all the other stuff they haven't drip fed us yet like Spartans, Drop Pods, Fellblades, Glaives, etc..

SU-152 wrote:
So, the trolls that kept saying LI was insanely expensive are gone?

I'm not aware of any disinformation in that regard. The boxes cost exactly what the majority expected and that WD list costs what that influencer said it would cost. We always knew the cost was for a skew list that used small portions of a lot of boxes. If you're happy to only field the cheapest legal force you can obtain second hand that's great, but that's not actually the norm IMHO. People who want to do something interesting with their lists will be paying those WD list prices.

SU-152 wrote:
So, the trolls that kept saying LI was insanely expensive are gone?

Depends on how you look at it. Paying GW retail......This game is very expensive. $5 per Rhino? you have to be out of your mind!

I find the game quite inexpensive though because I can print most of it up super cheap. At regular GW scale (Whatever that is this week 28-32mm) its hard to find free STLs that would pass as actual GW minis, that's not so much of a problem at this scale. Hell, I can print stuff up faster than GW can release it.

That's fine though because I know GW is going to soak me for the rules, $40 for a misprinted deck of cards that barely cover any formations.......when you can find them anyway? I used to think a pack of magic cards was expensive. Can't wait to see how little the first expansion book even covers. GW is lucky its easier to find free STLs than it is free rule books and cards.

I bought the box, I want to support the game, I may buy some things here and there, but GW prices are ridiculous. Epic used to be the CHEAP game.

Price is subjective. If you have lots of disposable income, 200 bucks for a starter set is not much.

If you're a broke college student working min wage at a restaurant, 200 bucks is a month's worth of pay and that's only if you eat ramen for the latter half.

Cries of "it's too expensive" fall on deaf ears to those with means, and rally those without, and do little else. It's up to each individual. Ultimately, if you don't like the price or can't afford it, don't buy it. GW aint forcing anything on you.

Can't afford a BMW? Guess you'll have to get a different sort of car. Screeching "BMW is too expensive!!" does nothing for the conversation.

Either way, GW sold out of their allocations in most places, and likely will continue to do so, so cries of "The starter set is too expensive!" could really not be more useless. Who are you trying to convince? The people that were grown adults and spent the 200-ish dollars regardless? I just do not understand where the conversation goes from here.

Do you know what's most annoying?

Still no seperate Predators, Sicarans, Leman Russ and Malcadors releases.

This would it also make easier for others to get a Core Box.

Yeah, we'll get them soon though.

Just gotta get through the holidays and I'm sure we'll see more of the stuff start to filter in. No clue how fast, since it's likely that LI releases will have to compete with a lot of other things, but we'll see how it goes.

drbored wrote:

Either way, GW sold out of their allocations in most places, and likely will continue to do so, so cries of "The starter set is too expensive!" could really not be more useless. Who are you trying to convince? The people that were grown adults and spent the 200-ish dollars regardless? I just do not understand where the conversation goes from here.

no one claimed that the starter set is too expensive
most complains are about the layout of the sets and the price, like no stand alone Terminators or the 2 per box when the max force is 3 as well as the supplement with essential units

that you can go cheap if you buy just the core box and trade is the same like with 40k, but most people want something else than just the rather boring starter set force and this is what makes the game expensive

RazorEdge wrote:Do you know what's most annoying?

Still no seperate Predators, Sicarans, Leman Russ and Malcadors releases.

This would it also make easier for others to get a Core Box.

drbored wrote:Yeah, we'll get them soon though.

Just gotta get through the holidays and I'm sure we'll see more of the stuff start to filter in. No clue how fast, since it's likely that LI releases will have to compete with a lot of other things, but we'll see how it goes.

We have 4 preorder dates in January. According to rumours over on TGA two will be taken up by the rest of the Flesh Eater Courts and The Old World and another one will likely be the rumoured Dark Angels boxset. So only one more slot open and I really hope it will be the rest of the LI wave 1 stuff.
There is still quite a lot missing from what should have been close to the inital preorder already.
We are still missing 5 AT kits in the old Warhound versions, Dire Wolves, the Warbringer and the two Warmasters.
4 AI kits in the last three SM flyers and the Thunderbolts for SA.
3 terrain kits with the Civitas buildings and spires and the manufactorum.
The two support boxes for LI which should be coming with this wave as they already have rules in the box.
Probably also the two Knights/Titans discount bundles.
And then you have individual sets for the Malcador, Leman Russ, Predators, Sicarans and the new Warhounds.

That would be 21 boxes which is quite a lot for a single weekend so I'm not sure we'll get everything at once.

Well we have seen what comes up to 13th. 2 weeks left for january for li.

On a positive note yesterday was no new models so they are recovering the preorder in 2 weeks, in stores 3 weeks from that schedule and means 20.1 is still possible. Nothing was revealed to come to stores on that date.

I need box of sicarans and predators to get 3k force(albeit with 600 pts allies)

I love the way that the price discussion was over, and this was the post that kicked it off again...

SU-152 wrote:
So, the trolls that kept saying LI was insanely expensive are gone?

...who's the REAL troll here?

 kodos wrote:

drbored wrote:

Either way, GW sold out of their allocations in most places, and likely will continue to do so, so cries of "The starter set is too expensive!" could really not be more useless. Who are you trying to convince? The people that were grown adults and spent the 200-ish dollars regardless? I just do not understand where the conversation goes from here.

no one claimed that the starter set is too expensive
most complains are about the layout of the sets and the price, like no stand alone Terminators or the 2 per box when the max force is 3 as well as the supplement with essential units

that you can go cheap if you buy just the core box and trade is the same like with 40k, but most people want something else than just the rather boring starter set force and this is what makes the game expensive

At some point I was complaining about the 2 Warhounds being in the starter making it less value since a lot of people already have 2x Warhounds, and even if you don't, Titans are such a large points sink that it's better people get to choose their own Titan instead of getting lumbered with the Warhounds.

The starter would have been better value if they'd dropped the Warhounds and beefed up the armour squadrons to give you full boxes worth of Predators, Leman Russes, etc instead of half boxes.

Also it wouldn't have killed them to throw in a sprue of terrain or some such.

tneva82 wrote:
Well we have seen what comes up to 13th. 2 weeks left for january for li.

Thats why I was talking about preorder dates not release dates

We should be getting preorders on the 6th, 13th, 20th and 27th.
And as in my message above three of those four slots are already rumoured to be filled.

 Matrindur wrote:


That would be 21 boxes which is quite a lot for a single weekend so I'm not sure we'll get everything at once.

The original wave was like 25+ products, although several of those were direct-only so I expect that be the case again. The old warhound kit certainly seems the most likely choice, and they may not want to stock both warmaster variants in stores.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Also it wouldn't have killed them to throw in a sprue of terrain or some such.

well, you can always just not fully assembly the Titans you don't need and scatter the parts on the table.....

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The starter would have been better value if they'd dropped the Warhounds and beefed up the armour squadrons to give you full boxes worth of Predators, Leman Russes, etc instead of half boxes.

Also it wouldn't have killed them to throw in a sprue of terrain or some such.

And then people would complain price of starter too big for tempting people to start.

 Albertorius wrote:

SU-152 wrote:
So, the trolls that kept saying LI was insanely expensive are gone?

AFAIK, we discussed here that one of the first people that did a review/battle report (Angry Joe over at YT) said as much. And he's still saying it, after multiple games and liking the game quite a bit.

Do the Lightnings count as allies, or are they part of the main army (hoping it's the first)? How many points can you field with what you have?

Aircraft do not count as allies, they are a slot in the formation, like any other.

I got 1500+ points. Small LI battle is around 1k points, big around 2k points. So I sit in the middle for now, until Bastion & Artillery detachments arrive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

SU-152 wrote:
So, the trolls that kept saying LI was insanely expensive are gone?

I got the main box + box of lightings. Swapped the marines for more SA.

I got a big bunch of infantry, 2 full tank squadrons, 8 Sentinels, 2 Titans, 6 planes, for 180 €.

If you're trying to convince me that you got a great deal, sorry, nah, that still seems quite expensive to me You needed to find someone to trade with in order to maximise the value, and you got 12 tanks that are roughly half the size of an average 40k model, 8 sentinels that are a quarter the size of your average 40k model, 2 titans that if you had any interaction with AT you probably already owned (except with a new hat!), 6 planes that you'll probably only use 3 in a game, and 4 sprues worth of infantry.... 180€ doesn't sound like some massive bargain all considered

I don't know who you are, and I'm not trying to convince anyone.

How much is an army for other GW system?? I have no idea. I just play Epic games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

SU-152 wrote:
So, the trolls that kept saying LI was insanely expensive are gone?

I got the main box + box of lightings. Swapped the marines for more SA.

I got a big bunch of infantry, 2 full tank squadrons, 8 Sentinels, 2 Titans, 6 planes, for 180 €.

If you're trying to convince me that you got a great deal, sorry, nah, that still seems quite expensive to me You needed to find someone to trade with in order to maximise the value, and you got 12 tanks that are roughly half the size of an average 40k model, 8 sentinels that are a quarter the size of your average 40k model, 2 titans that if you had any interaction with AT you probably already owned (except with a new hat!), 6 planes that you'll probably only use 3 in a game, and 4 sprues worth of infantry.... 180€ doesn't sound like some massive bargain all considered

Value is relative... I'm printing 16 LRs at the moment (with sponsons, because I like sponsons in my LRs), and the slicer says it will be about 100ml of resin.

I've got plenty of printed LR in my Epic armies.

It's a no go if I want to play at local store (it's almost impossible to find more than 1 or 2 players that play at Epic scale outside a commercial/store game).

 kodos wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Also it wouldn't have killed them to throw in a sprue of terrain or some such.

well, you can always just not fully assembly the Titans you don't need and scatter the parts on the table.....

thats.... actually not a bad idea, I mean you get some spare carapace bits and spare head parts even if you do assemble them, not to mention spare weapons

SU-152 wrote:
Aircraft do not count as allies, they are a slot in the formation, like any other.

I got 1500+ points. Small LI battle is around 1k points, big around 2k points. So I sit in the middle for now, until Bastion & Artillery detachments arrive.

Thanks!

I've got plenty of printed LR in my Epic armies.

It's a no go if I want to play at local store (it's almost impossible to find more than 1 or 2 players that play at Epic scale outside a commercial/store game).

Not really a concern for me, as I don't play at stores, and we've managed to keep playing Epic for the last 20 years somehow ^^. Even if I did, I am the one who convinced the FLGS to have a 3d printing service (arranged with designers), so... ^^

Come to think off...Yeah I think I might join the club. I do have plenty of warhounds as is. I need to double check how many loyals I have aka do I have the 5 I need but if yes I might actually turn those into terrain. Bit expensive terrain piece but adds 40k flavour.

Reinforced obstacle rulewise mayhap?

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The starter would have been better value if they'd dropped the Warhounds and beefed up the armour squadrons to give you full boxes worth of Predators, Leman Russes, etc instead of half boxes.

Also it wouldn't have killed them to throw in a sprue of terrain or some such.

And then people would complain price of starter too big for tempting people to start.

I'd propose they throw it in for the same price

The LI starter set isn't really great value compared to buying separately when you look at other GW starters. In a $200 starter you get about $265 of plastic (if bought separately) then the rulebook, the world's crappiest counters, and some dice/rulers/templates.

You're basically getting 2x full $50 boxes, 4x half $50 boxes, and the Warhounds, so basically paying full price for infantry and tanks and getting the Warhounds and ancillaries thrown in.

<sarcasm>Phwoah, what a great deal</sarcasm>

The starter isn't something I bought because I thought it was awesome value, it was something I bought because I figure I'd want the rulebook, some tanks and some infantry anyway so I might as well get the Warhounds and an opposition force for demo games thrown in for "free" compared to buying separately.

Compare that to the 40k box, $210 for the box, it's hard to get exact prices because not everything is released and there's some push fit stuff, but even a conservative estimate is roughly $400 of plastic, probably more like $450, the rulebook (in my preferred small form factor!) plus a handbook and a small gaming board.

That's more like 6 or 7 boxes of varying value, plus 3 "characters", plus an $85 box of terrain (actually is it more than $85? The picture on the boxed set looks like it comes with an extra sprue compared to buying the terrain separately?).

The Leviathan box was even better value because for only $40 more you dropped the terrain but got a whole bunch more, but obviously that was limited so not as comparable.

The Age of Sigmar starter set is similarly $185 with in the realm of $400+ of plastic if bought separately and then the books and cards.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The starter would have been better value if they'd dropped the Warhounds and beefed up the armour squadrons to give you full boxes worth of Predators, Leman Russes, etc instead of half boxes.

Also it wouldn't have killed them to throw in a sprue of terrain or some such.

And then people would complain price of starter too big for tempting people to start.

I'd propose they throw it in for the same price
.

So let's see. You say they should simultaneously keep the prices, add the models and dont' change discount %...

How on earth you suggest GW does ALL THREE AT ONCE?

Any proposal that doesn't meet all 3 is dead on water.

Well, the Warhounds being a somewhat suboptimal inclusion turned out good for me, found an ebay guy parting out starters and they have Warhounds priced considerably cheaper than the regular AT Warhound kit.

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The starter would have been better value if they'd dropped the Warhounds and beefed up the armour squadrons to give you full boxes worth of Predators, Leman Russes, etc instead of half boxes.

Also it wouldn't have killed them to throw in a sprue of terrain or some such.

And then people would complain price of starter too big for tempting people to start.

I'd propose they throw it in for the same price
.

So let's see. You say they should simultaneously keep the prices, add the models and dont' change discount %...

How on earth you suggest GW does ALL THREE AT ONCE?

Any proposal that doesn't meet all 3 is dead on water.

I mean, do you really think they'd be losing any money (not earning less, losing) if they did all three?

My AT starter finally arrived. 115€ for 2 Reavers, 2 Warhounds, 2 Cerastus Knights plus the rules and a few cool objective markers was a decent deal methinks. I'll be splitting it all with a mate. All of it can be fielded in a game of LI as well, which is good = even the Cerastus can be taken as a detachment of 1 model

I will turn my attention back to LI once more SKUs arrive. I dont feel like investing too much into the game right now, I have one Astartes infantry box and one Rhino with a Havoc Launcher, I'll get the rest of my 1500 points when everything that's been revealed so far gets released (along with a bunch of fliers which are out of stock everywhere for now anyways..)

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Well, the Warhounds being a somewhat suboptimal inclusion turned out good for me, found an ebay guy parting out starters and they have Warhounds priced considerably cheaper than the regular AT Warhound kit.

Ha! Same here. I held off at first because of the lack of weapon cards. But once the PDF appeared, it was game on...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tauist wrote:
My AT starter finally arrived. 115€ for 2 Reavers, 2 Warhounds, 2 Cerastus Knights plus the rules and a few cool objective markers was a decent deal methinks. I'll be splitting it all with a mate. All of it can be fielded in a game of LI as well, which is good = even the Cerastus can be taken as a detachment of 1 model

The AT starter is still one of GW's very best starter boxes.

totally agree on the AT starter being excellent, thats an example of doing it right

the only minor let down being the thin card terminals, but even they are better than the card counters in LI

and why oh why doesn't LI have a set of plastic order markers?

 Matrindur wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:Do you know what's most annoying?

Still no seperate Predators, Sicarans, Leman Russ and Malcadors releases.

This would it also make easier for others to get a Core Box.

drbored wrote:Yeah, we'll get them soon though.

Just gotta get through the holidays and I'm sure we'll see more of the stuff start to filter in. No clue how fast, since it's likely that LI releases will have to compete with a lot of other things, but we'll see how it goes.

We have 4 preorder dates in January. According to rumours over on TGA two will be taken up by the rest of the Flesh Eater Courts and The Old World and another one will likely be the rumoured Dark Angels boxset. So only one more slot open and I really hope it will be the rest of the LI wave 1 stuff.
There is still quite a lot missing from what should have been close to the inital preorder already.
We are still missing 5 AT kits in the old Warhound versions, Dire Wolves, the Warbringer and the two Warmasters.
4 AI kits in the last three SM flyers and the Thunderbolts for SA.
3 terrain kits with the Civitas buildings and spires and the manufactorum.
The two support boxes for LI which should be coming with this wave as they already have rules in the box.
Probably also the two Knights/Titans discount bundles.
And then you have individual sets for the Malcador, Leman Russ, Predators, Sicarans and the new Warhounds.

That would be 21 boxes which is quite a lot for a single weekend so I'm not sure we'll get everything at once.

Good breakdown.

My personal hope is that GW will do with LI what they tend to do with Underworlds and Blood Bowl, which is sneak supplemental things alongside preorders for other game systems. It makes it so they can push out extra boxes of content without having to take up a whole 'slot'.

I could see them putting Predators and Leman Russ boxes out alongside the Flesh Eater Courts release, and then the Sicarans and Malcadors out during another window, spread it out while keeping the hype going.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

leopard wrote:
totally agree on the AT starter being excellent, thats an example of doing it right

the only minor let down being the thin card terminals, but even they are better than the card counters in LI

and why oh why doesn't LI have a set of plastic order markers?

Here's another question: How are we supposed to get more order markers? Currently the starter set is the only way to get those tokens, so if you get things a-la-carte, you wont get the tokens you need to give orders to your units... and even then, the starter set has barely enough to handle a full game of LI with enough order tokens to go around.

HOPEFULLY, we do see a separate set of tokens come out, but to be honest that's also why they provide a scannable token sheet in the back of the book, to make your own. There's also dozens of 3d print and alternative acrylic solutions on the tertiary market that are way better and come in an assortment of colors, shapes, and sizes.

Super easy way to make your own tokens? Follow 2nd Ed’s example, and assign a colour to each order. To keep it classic?

Yellow = Fall Back
Green = Advance
Blue = Charge
Red = First Fire.

And because it didn’t exist then, let’s say…..

Purple = March


Then simple get a bunch of bases, and paint the undersides with those colours. Simple, study, easy to produce en masse. And even if you don’t fancy painting writing on to them? Just have a simple rubric for you and your opponent to share, showing which colour represents which order.

Jobs a good’un.

Free resources are out there already
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6355306


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, or X-Wing style order turny thingies
https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/stardials-basics-legions-imperialis

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Super easy way to make your own tokens? Follow 2nd Ed’s example, and assign a colour to each order. To keep it classic?

Yellow = Fall Back
Green = Advance
Blue = Charge
Red = First Fire.

And because it didn’t exist then, let’s say…..

Purple = March


Then simple get a bunch of bases, and paint the undersides with those colours. Simple, study, easy to produce en masse. And even if you don’t fancy painting writing on to them? Just have a simple rubric for you and your opponent to share, showing which colour represents which order.

Jobs a good’un.

Nice cost effective way to do it:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275155411349?var=575424925393