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How much discount in the battlegroups?

Usually one of the constituent sets is “free” in the battle groups.

This is around a 34% discount, which is slightly better than normal. GW must really want to hook new customers.

Two battlegroup boxes are pretty close to filling out a full 3000pt list.

I feel like these FOMO battle group boxes aren't really worth vs the "combat forces" they released a few weeks ago? Like its mostly the same contents, just with one set of vehicles swapped out and an extra kit thrown in.

Part of the issue is that for "core models" you really don't have many choices with LI to pick from. Infantry is basically 2 boxes and that's it.

Meanwhile you don't want to include too many exotics otherwise there's nothing to encourage buying after getting the discount box.


They also do all feel like great "new game" sets which makes sense. This scale of game is notorious in sci-fi and fantasy for being really hard to grow (as shown by the fact that most of the competition in this scale is literal garage companies often still casting in metal).

So GW going REALLY hard on FOMO starter themed sets makes sense in trying hard to grow it.

The other thing is get a Combat Force box or a Battle Group box and you have basically 1500 points which is more than enough for a good game. The Battle Group even have aircraft and anti-air units for the full combined arms feel. Put a Combat Force and a Battle Group together, maybe grab an infantry box and you have a full 3,000 point army. By GW standards that’s good.

LI is a weird game when it comes to purchases.

Getting started isn’t as cheap as Epic used to feel. For instance, I’m now on 8 boxes worth of Space Marine Infantry. Given Infantry is super cheap in the game? That’s a not insignificant £260.00 RRP. Discounts are of course available and vary.

Now, I do get a veritable horde of tiny wee dudes for that. And I for one don’t see anything wrong with using fewer models per base to stretch your money further.

But your tanks represent much better value, because they tend to be points intensive. And as ever, I’ll doff my cap to GW for providing lots of turrets for the Marine tanks. Gives options without further cost. So that’s nice of them.

Do you need as much infantry as I have? Almost certainly not, no. But an all infantry army, because it’s so points cheap, is not a cheap army.

Yet…once you’ve got your core force assembled? After that initial investment? It begins to feel like Old Epic in the purchase department. That is, a single box and I’ve a decent amount of stuff to swap in and out. So a refresh is fairly cost effective, as only rarely do you need more than a single box.

Exception there is the Legion Support, where I feel you really want a couple. The Dreads are fine as small units of four, because Dreads are Dreads. But the Rapiers and Tarantulas just feel puny as two bases.

These combined boxes do represent decent value for someone looking to start a new army (either a second force, or someone entirely new to the game). Two of the Legion Combat Force gives a pretty solid backbone, and you’re up and running with good variety for £210 RRP. Or if like me you shop at Element Games a shade under £180.

I’m not affiliated with Element, but my mate does run their London Store. Crystal Code is ROS9227

I don't play LI - I bought a few of the tanks just to see what they were like, and felt that they are too labour-intensive to justify the end result (and a bit fragile as well). I think if I was going to get into it, I would be picking up the Saturnine battle group; the Saturnine models look pretty good in epic scale, and fill the bases better than the 'normal' troops.

Quite a bit of cool stuff there!

The other thing that strikes me is that LI kind of needs to grow up fairly fast to work. Armies right now feel very "small" and you can't fit many regular ground units in and have space for much in the way of titans.

So pushing lots of starter sets is not only going to encourage people to join in fairly quick; but if two purchases gets you to 3K points that's really going to encourage the market to push for higher and higher unit counts.

Win for GW as that means more sales; win for gamers as that means more to field.

As an early adopter? If these collected sets were available from the beginning, I’d of course have made use of them.

The other potentially unsung thing about Epic is the hobby side is very beginner friendly.

Sure, people with Witchcraft level painting skills can churn out absolutely stunning Epic Scale Models. But it takes a fraction of the skill and effort needed for 28mm to get a pretty decent looking fully painted Epic Army.

For my Dark Angels? Get the model assembled/sprue broken down for infantry. Spray Mech Std Grey. Light drybrush the upper half in a gun metal. Then on with the Black Contrast type paint. Pick out the weapons in gun metal. Blob of dark red on a shoulder pad/spot colour, with a lighter red on top for tanks.

And you’re done. Little effort, and a pretty decent looking result, especially across an entire army.

Yet another variation on the battlegroup/combat force discount box seems a bit odd. I'm not complaining per se, but why not just keep the previous versions in stock over making a new minor variation on the theme?

The new ones are quite clearly diminishing returns for established players, given there is a limit on how many infantry sets the average person is going to want (MDG excepted) and they don't include any of the latest kits for that to be a driver either.

So if they're aimed at new players - that's a great idea, I just don't get the continual relaunching of them with a slightly different spread of kits. That said, the latest ones having aircraft is definitely a really good idea.

Whilst I definitely have some Fellblades in my future, going to wait for the rules to be out/previewed before getting any of them. Similarly be curious to see the rules for the Araknae given the odd numbers you can build from a box.

This is going to absolutely murder my wallet... I'll probably try to grab 4 of the new Saturnine Battlegroups (2 for UMs, 2 for WBs) which are limited, so the super-heavies will have to wait for another time.

I’m always excepted.

But never exceptional ??

I might have to get the saturnine armours but I kind of have enough of the standard infantry sprues right now. I wouldn't mind some specialist ones though; an assault sprue with tartaros termies, MkII jump packs, and some boarding and destroyer squads would be nice.

The Rumor Frontline is silent.

It seems like we get maybe some Titan Weapon Options as plastic in the future, sinse the FW Resin Sets are mostly "sold out".

WIth the LIber Strategia, the Army Options in the Hardcore Rulebook are obsolete - more or less. It is still possible, we get a new "1.5" Rulebook and mabye a new Starter Set, maybe with the next Release Wave.

All the latest announced Releases are out.

-

Do you think we get another Istavaan V Themed Jorunal? - what could we expect.

Maybe completly new Tanks, we don't expect? - For Astartes and Auxillia

What I could see:
>Terminator Detachment Set - with Tartaros Schema Armour, and Close Combat Terminators
>Tank Destoryer Variant on Rhino Chassis Set - Laser-Destroyer / Other Heavy AT-Gun option.
>Mk3 Marines - With other Heavy/Special Options and Breachers
>Mk2 Marines - With other Heavy/Special Options and analog to the 28mm Saturnine Releases.
>Arminger Knight Plastic Kit
>Weapon Sprues for Titans
> WILDCARD: Neutral non-City Bases, you have to buy seperate.

For the SA there's at least one more infantry kit worth of options out there. Roughriders, heavy weapon teams and scout mechs are still missing from the line. Probably two sprue when you consider how many heavy weapon options there are and that there's probably few other infantry classes missing that could be added in as well.


I'm not as convinced that we'll see lots of marks of marine armour. The differences at this scale are really tiny on a marine. It just doesn't feel like it would really change the visual experience of the game or be worth getting a different mark of armour for what would amount to an insanely small visual difference.

My impression is once marines are more done we will see them do Custodes

Question - I don't track this as closely as I should, but have LI releases settled into a regular cadence, or have they been a bit scatter-shot?

It'd be good to see a wave that covered SA/AM/DM without anything for the LA, but I suspect that'll never happen.

Right now, Marines aren’t missing a huge amount.

Arquitor and Stormbird are the ones that jump immediately to mind. And Dreadclaw/Big Dreadclaw.

Beyond those it’s just infantry things (Scout or equivalent, perhaps variant Special and Heavy Weapons) and Predator turret variants.

I'm expecting the Custodes to make an appearance into LI, now that they are getting a new wave in 28mil. They will hardly make an army on their own, suspecting it will be an add-on detachment one can take for a loyalist army. With insane CAF specs of course!

LI for me is at a point where the only thing I'm resonally missing is some more terrain variety. Every miniature that ever got rules for 1st edition Space Marine has already been released, and the pastic tokens are also compatible.

Re-introducing the epubs might get be back to considering playing LI, so that might be nice some time in the future

Predator Variants is another Topic - we didn't saw new since the release of the Game and 28mm has some unreleased for Epic.

Mayber with a 2nd Istvaan V Themed Journal. Did we had any other Stuff than Astartes on Istvaan V?

Those two Journals could later combined to another Hardcover Book - maybe with a third Journal.

Mk4 could be "proxied" with the Mk6 base Sets but DG and IW in Mk6 look so wrong, even on 8mm....

-

We could maybe also see complete new Stuff, never seen before?

I expect Custodes to make an army of their own for sure; they will just likely need more allies for more variety.

Honestly my biggest worry for LI is that they pair it too much with 30K and are afraid to release things in LI scale that aren't in 30K (whole army wise). Because LI can very much update a lot faster than 30K in terms of the pace of releases.


That said releases for I feel ok right now. They get something every so often, but aren't getting things every major release event. A steady tick over of new things.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Right now, Marines aren’t missing a huge amount.

Arquitor and Stormbird are the ones that jump immediately to mind. And Dreadclaw/Big Dreadclaw.

Beyond those it’s just infantry things (Scout or equivalent, perhaps variant Special and Heavy Weapons) and Predator turret variants.

There's a few they're missing. I keep track:

Artillery
Arquitor

Transport
Dreadclaw
Kharybdis
Land Raider Carrier

Battle tank
Land Raider Achilles
Vindicator Laser Destroyer
Missing Predator weapons
Sicaran Venator

Aircraft
Sokar Stormbird

Bastion
Missing Tarantula weapons
Missing Rapier weapons

Core

Infantry Core (MK II, III, IV, V)
Infantry Core Special Options (Veterans, Breachers, Mortalis Destroyers, Recon Marines, Assault Destroyers, Seekers, Despoilers)

Support
Infantry Support Weapons
Infantry Heavy Weapons
Tartaros Terminators
Missing dreadnought Weapons


Esoterics (Unlikely, but here's a list anyway)

HQ
Damocles Rhino

Support
'Cobra' type Terminators
'Furibundus' Dreadnought?
'Lucifer' Dreadnought?
Castraferrum Dreadnought

Vanguard
Land Speeder Tempest
Bikes/Jetbikes (Spatha Attack Bike, Estoc Jetbike, Hussar Bikes)

Artillery
Medusa
Basilisk
Whirlwind Hyperios
Stalker
Hunter

Air Support

Caestus Assault Ram
Thunderhawk Transporter
Landing Craft

Transport
Razorback (!)

Heavy Armour
Hercules 'heavy tank'


And that's not including legion uniques

 Overread wrote:


Honestly my biggest worry for LI is that they pair it too much with 30K and are afraid to release things in LI scale that aren't in 30K (whole army wise). Because LI can very much update a lot faster than 30K in terms of the pace of releases.

Exactly that! I'm really missing the LImp scaled unique units. Think specific super heavy vehicles, or even way bigger stuff that just would be impossible to produce in 28mm. Can anyone say "Imperator Titan"

The LI scale Warmaster is already the scale of a 28mm Imperial Knight, and that is pretty close to the upper edge of what GW is willing to do scale-wise in plastic, unfortunately.

An Imperator would be... something.

It’s still the scale of game best suited. They are odd fish, as if taken in an army? Regardless of mission it almost always becomes “Kill The Imperator”. Even in a huge, multi-player game, it’s just too tempting a target and too destructive to not be engaged rapidly and thoroughly.

Still want them though!

As for smaller stuff? Armour marks would be fun from a collecting perspective, but would make little impact on the game. Unless of course they offer unique Heavy or Special Weapons.

But we have the opposite side of the issue we find with Imperators. The game rules just don’t have wiggle room to really offer sufficient distinction. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I mean, if you can’t put a Rizla between fielding Missile Launcher or Plasma Cannons? Then there’s no such thing as “oh no, I bought the wrong infantry box”.

Hmm.

Honestly I think an Imperator needs the game to grow more.

Right now if you take a Warlord, Couple of Reavers and a few Warhounds you're already hitting the 2-3K point limit of most games and you've not even thrown in a few tank companies, or infantry squads.

So you really need the game to grow in terms of how many models are on the table before you can really start to say "Ok its time for an Imperator". Otherwise they'd be almost an entire army on their own. Which is fine, but darn it half the fun is having an Imperator marching with an escort of titans and tanks and infantry swarming all around it to clash with your foes!

And to be honest, if I wanted to play a Titan army, I'd just play Titanicus. Its ruleset makes such a collection much, much much more fun to play.

Incorrect.

Half the fun is running inside the legs, waiting a turn, scuttling back out and then watching it fall over.

And here I thought we were friends. Shocking.

Anyway, more seriously, I doubt we'll see different armour marks, because stats aside, that kind of detail is practically invisible on this scale. That and your comment about rules is also why I don't think we'll see Breachers. That little shield just isn't remotely enough to add a point of save or wound considering what those stats mean in LI.

I agree I would love to see more unique faction stuff and I think there's hope for that thanks to the Dark Mechanicum spiderbots (which rule).