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 Skinflint Games wrote:
What am I going to do, specifically? Giggle with glee, mortgage my house and dive in.

Or if I HAVEN'T been drinking, keep playing 2nd Ed Space Marine and making stuff out of granny grating and asthma inhalers

I am not intrigued to find out what you have made from asthma inhalers!

 Pacific wrote:

 Skinflint Games wrote:
What am I going to do, specifically? Giggle with glee, mortgage my house and dive in.

Or if I HAVEN'T been drinking, keep playing 2nd Ed Space Marine and making stuff out of granny grating and asthma inhalers

I am not intrigued to find out what you have made from asthma inhalers!

What HAVEN'T I made from asthma inhalers ;-)

That was a dreadful typo - meant to say I am intrigued!

Also find out what granny grating is..

I think in the case of those beakie STL's, the models are too distinctively looking to not be "beakie inspired", whereas the Steel Legion look isn't really something GW can easily claim as their IP. Brown uniform, gasmasks, rifles resembling some sort of AK-47 type of rifle, sounds wayy too generic for GW to try to claim as being exclusive to their IP. Those beakies OTOH.. I mean, just look at them. Esily identifiable as not some generic scifi soldiers in space suits, but as MKVI Corvus Armoured Adeptus Astartes.

I'm not sure what the exact legal standing is on it.

There was an interesting video (The Painting Phase channel) where they interview Bob Naismith, who is *literally* the person that came up with the first Space Marine designs. He said it was from a combination of influences; a world war 2 soldier (the back-pack is a sci-fi version of a WW2 carry pack) and the powered armour from Starship Troopers (the book concept).
Apparently he got brought back in by GW to give testimony during the Chapterhouse case.. I think his words were, it perhaps wasn't what they wanted to hear, but it was the truth.

My own thoughts are that the Beakie is something distinctively '40k' - it was the very first marine plastic boxset and on the first rulebook cover. Perhaps that is why something like the STLs are being taken down, but someone like Vanguard minis (who AFAIK have avoided legal challenge) do not get warnings over their variations on a theme.

 RexHavoc wrote:

I don't believe the hype coming from warhammerfest. Its a large amount of people seeing what they want to see. There is nothing in that 2 second clip that says its a miniatures game. Faeit has been spouting the same nonsense rumours since the year after GW killed of specialist games. People are imprinting the BS from those rumours on to that video.

To me it looks more like a promo shot for a video game, probably a mobile game at that. I'll believe that its a 'proper' version of Epic when we see the first pictures of actual miniatures. (And even then, it better come with a release date as well. They've been teasing models for the old world over the weekend, and from that awful preview the game doesn't sound like that even exists!

This warrants repeating - people seem to be treating that video clip as an official announcement of Epic when it is nothing of the sort. I'd lay money on it being a computer game, and if it's yet another thing set in the bloody Horus Heresy then it can bugger off.

The square bases with the arrows sticking out of them are pretty darn convincing. Did any other games ever use this convention?

Teaser:
https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Screenshot_428.png?ezimgfmt=rs:850x468/rscb3/ngcb3/notWebP

White Dwarf:
https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/epic-battle-report-white-dwarf.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:766x398/rscb3/ng:webp/ngcb3

I am of course, HYYYYYYPPPPPPE!

Not only is Epic a satisfying game to play, but it’s easy to paint up your army.

The rules I genuinely couldn’t care less about, for under my bed, in my boudoir, I have most of the rules for 2nd Ed Epic.

That being said, it will of course depend upon the models. I don’t expect them to be a radical departure in scale. And even if they are? Provided both players use the same era of models, there wont be a problem.

The sticking point for me will be the scale

I have a LOT of Epic models, from all eras, going back from beetleback plastic Warlords through an entire Space Marine box, Epic 40k SM army and Epic Armageddon. During the wilderness years I even managed to find out the person who was making tiny epic copies of FW models and got myself a bunch of Spartans and things from them.

I am heavily invested in the 6mm epic ecosystem at this point

So if they bump the scale up to 8mm there's really no way to view it *other* than a deliberate middle finger to people with older collections. the difference in scale between 6mm and 8mm is huge (a full third of a model, so imagine if GW bumped 40k from 28mm to 37mm)

Rules I really don't care about, but it would be nice if things like base sizes took into account older models as well. Armageddon did this with very loose sizing rules that allowed you to use both E40k and SM bases without issue

I have enough land raiders and rhinos to last me a lifetime, so any newer models would be useless to me if they're out of scale, i'd probably just print more at 6mm (and 6mm ground models next to 8mm titans does look Epic)

Aslong as there aint an article on the community, a new version is NOT coming! Rumour mill for epic and armageddon is just instant click generators, allways has been.

Rules can go eitherway. They can be bad like AI or good like AT, GW has proven they are only doing consistently good what they have allways done: making and selling models.

 Albertorius wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

That's interesting with the STLs being removed. Were they Epic-specific, or just ones that had come too close to the wire in copying GW sculpts?

I'm not an IP lawyer but they were pretty obvious in their intentions.
I recognize that IP is a difficult area to navigate and obviously GW deserve the credit for creating Epic. However these were also extremely high quality sculpts for a game that had, at that point, been discontinued and so it seemed to be fairly victimless. That these STLs have now been removed from easy circulation and further works seem unlikely can only be a bad thing for the player.

Spoiler:

The interesting point here is that the marines have been C&Ded... but the Armageddon Steel Leggionaires from the same designer, of the same scale, haven't.

Spoiler:

I feel that might telll something about their plans.

I don't think GW made a melta gun or autocannon for the steel legion, so I suspect that might have something to do with it. Although I printed these out at 28mm for a friend and they scrub up pretty well.

 MalusCalibur wrote:

 RexHavoc wrote:

I don't believe the hype coming from warhammerfest. Its a large amount of people seeing what they want to see. There is nothing in that 2 second clip that says its a miniatures game. Faeit has been spouting the same nonsense rumours since the year after GW killed of specialist games. People are imprinting the BS from those rumours on to that video.

To me it looks more like a promo shot for a video game, probably a mobile game at that. I'll believe that its a 'proper' version of Epic when we see the first pictures of actual miniatures. (And even then, it better come with a release date as well. They've been teasing models for the old world over the weekend, and from that awful preview the game doesn't sound like that even exists!

This warrants repeating - people seem to be treating that video clip as an official announcement of Epic when it is nothing of the sort. I'd lay money on it being a computer game, and if it's yet another thing set in the bloody Horus Heresy then it can bugger off.

Ya I think it's either a mobile game or a some silly apoc for 30k expansion to push the 28mm plastic knight lancer.

There is no precedent of GW teasing a computer game like that. Make no mistake, its a new boardgame, at the very least.

 tauist wrote:
There is no precedent of GW teasing a computer game like that. Make no mistake, its a new boardgame, at the very least.

It has relaxed a tiny bit in recent times, but usually GW are very very strict to keep third party/licensee stuff separate from their core lineup, so a computer game is a very very low probability.

There are just so many hints in that Warhammer Fest preview, I am not sure how they could be any more frank other than by writing "Look, we are bringing back Epic, the miniature wargame!"
The video being called 'Battle on a new Scale', the Titan unit next to them, the design even looked like an old Epic battle report and the way those used to be illustrated in WD.
It ties in with the original release format, the current trend of GW bringing back the classic games..

Honestly, if this turns out to be a computer game, I will hollow out a turnip and wear it as a hat at all times for the next month.

Charax wrote:
The sticking point for me will be the scale

I have a LOT of Epic models, from all eras, going back from beetleback plastic Warlords through an entire Space Marine box, Epic 40k SM army and Epic Armageddon. During the wilderness years I even managed to find out the person who was making tiny epic copies of FW models and got myself a bunch of Spartans and things from them.
...
So if they bump the scale up to 8mm there's really no way to view it *other* than a deliberate middle finger to people with older collections. the difference in scale between 6mm and 8mm is huge (a full third of a model, so imagine if GW bumped 40k from 28mm to 37mm)
Epic)

I agree. I think the only negative outcome for me that could come out of this is if they decide to up the scale significantly. I'm thinking 10-12mm would be unacceptably large compared to older ranges and most proxies
The issue is (and I know this is a point of contention in the Epic 3D printing community) where designers get carried away with detail and that keeps necessarily pushing the scale up - but I would argue there is a point at which, when you are having to paint belt buckles, it stops being Epic!

Although, I think it would then push them out of scale with AT (and the video in the preview did show a Titan unit) which should hopefully stop that happening.

Let’s be honest though.

GW won’t give a fig if they upset folks wanting to 3D Print their army.

artific3r wrote:
The square bases with the arrows sticking out of them are pretty darn convincing. Did any other games ever use this convention?

Teaser:
https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Screenshot_428.png?ezimgfmt=rs:850x468/rscb3/ngcb3/notWebP

White Dwarf:
https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/epic-battle-report-white-dwarf.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:766x398/rscb3/ng:webp/ngcb3

 gorgon wrote:

artific3r wrote:
The square bases with the arrows sticking out of them are pretty darn convincing. Did any other games ever use this convention?

Teaser:
https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Screenshot_428.png?ezimgfmt=rs:850x468/rscb3/ngcb3/notWebP

White Dwarf:
https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/epic-battle-report-white-dwarf.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:766x398/rscb3/ng:webp/ngcb3

Yeah, the argument about the size and shape of the icons is not particularly strong - these square icons with flags or arrows denoting facing have been the norm in mil-hist and military wargaming publications for ages, and have been standard for a lot of GW systems as well, e.g. WHFB, for quite a long time in the 90s and early 2000s at least. It's just a reasonable cartographic convention when you're largely dealing with regimented blocks of some sort. Several real-world militaries still use them as official, standardized markers on staff maps as well.

keep in mind though in the days of Napoleon they took it seriously, I mean they did actually form up into rectangular blocks with a few blokes out front like an arrowhead

I mean it was the done thing

leopard wrote:
keep in mind though in the days of Napoleon they took it seriously, I mean they did actually form up into rectangular blocks with a few blokes out front like an arrowhead

I mean it was the done thing

Modern militaries still use rectangular unit designators on situational maps. Turns out rectangles are just really good ways of marking both unit type and general facing.

Here's an example list from WW2:


GW used to use the same conventions in older battle reports for other games like WHFB (I'm assuming, I haven't read a White Dwarf in years. Do they still do battle reports like this?):

I'd say those rectangles with arrows in them point towards a more strategy-oriented game is all.. Which IMO means either Epic scale game ("Adeptus Astartes: Horus Heresy") that includes titans ("Adeptus Titanicus: Horus Heresy") and flyers ("Aeronautica Imperialis: Horus Heresy"), or something like the Battle of Armageddon game, which was more like a WWII strategy game. Can't see other options tbh

Tsagualsa wrote:

 tauist wrote:
There is no precedent of GW teasing a computer game like that. Make no mistake, its a new boardgame, at the very least.

It has relaxed a tiny bit in recent times, but usually GW are very very strict to keep third party/licensee stuff separate from their core lineup, so a computer game is a very very low probability.

Also, this seems false? I can find articles talking about Shootas, Blood & Teef, Darktide, World of Warships, Mechanicus, Chaosbane, Warhammer Underworlds: Online, Inquisitor: Martyr, and Total War: Warhammer III. So there's plenty of computer game talk on the Community site.

Yes but they're not known to announce those during their own reveals.

Ah, gotcha. I'll agree with that.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Let’s be honest though.

GW won’t give a fig if they upset folks wanting to 3D Print their army.

Changing the scale won't do anything to people who 3D print new stuff. It would have a huge effect on people who have lots of stuff left over from previous editions.

Hopefully they just keep the simple rule "A stand may be no less than 5mm across in any direction." and then square bases, rectangle bases and any new scale stuff will be okay.

Back in the day we were so taken with GW's symbols for the Epic battle reports, we did exactly that and inhabited the board with painted wooden tokens. It looked great!

War on a new scale doesn't necessarily refer to model scale, just as likely it's referring to the scale of the battle. So while it likely isn't a mobile game, it probably is just silly apoc expansion for 30k no one wants so they can push the plastic knight lancer. If it was epic they'd probably say epic, if it was epic they'd show something more imo. I can hope that I'm wrong, but this all feels like wishful thinking until we see more.

I'm just curious if GW will scale up the new epic to 8mm to match Titanicus. Would seem smarter than to introduce 6mm again.

 Brother Glacius wrote:
I'm just curious if GW will scale up the new epic to 8mm to match Titanicus. Would seem smarter than to introduce 6mm again.

The long and short of it is that the various variants of old Epic had no consistent scale anyway, and thus calling it 6mm or 8mm is more like an opinion... however, modern AT and AI is 1/4th of 40k scale, which leads one to assume that an new version of Epic would be as well, which would mean that Space Marine figures would be around 8mm tall. Anyway, due to the old scale not being terribly consistent at all, 8mm and 6mm epic models would not look too out of place next to each other unless they were the exact same models, and if they go for a more sliding-scale approach and keep standard humans at around 6mm it would work out just fine overall.