Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Coh Magnussen wrote:

Forceride wrote:
I don't think so, you can add a mekk and shoot those guns on 3 so it's actually 345 and 355. The value of the tanks is more wounds, more guns and ability to move if opponent get's to close. Also they have more move then kans. It's just a better profile bar melee but you don't want to melee with them.

I think the mek only affects a single model, not a whole unit? Either way I think my grots are gonna build some tanks

That's correct good sir, misreading on my part. It only affect's the model. Still better go for tanks has you mentioned


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PDF link with all changes: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/YRK9ZpspblzJHLb7.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3ZUqg3MFmCxoj2CPZBDKxyDAET4CdQnkiWCwhZsu3PTbJb_8ByUX5_Rwo

Yay! they fixed the range on twin big shootas

Playing around w Lists and noticed 2 things… the supa cybork enhancement on warboss on bike isn’t bad… he’s 4+ 5++ 4+++ with it and 7w t6 plus a unit of warbikers/nobs on bikes door ablative wounds.

But why is his killsaw 4+ ws? It makes no sense since his pk is 3+ ws…

Because like with many other forge world things they fethed it up.

Why does the Kill tank not have an invulnerable save? No one knows except its Forge world.

Beardedragon wrote:
Because like with many other forge world things they fethed it up.

Why does the Kill tank not have an invulnerable save? No one knows except its Forge world.

It's even dumber because the Legend'ed Kill Krusha has the 6+ invuln, so it looks like an oversight.

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Because like with many other forge world things they fethed it up.

Why does the Kill tank not have an invulnerable save? No one knows except its Forge world.

It's even dumber because the Legend'ed Kill Krusha has the 6+ invuln, so it looks like an oversight.

FW is a law unto itself and does as it chooses, seemingly on a whim.

Not specifically tactics related, but does anyone happen to own an AOS Mangler Squig? I'm looking to potentially make some squiggified Deff Dreads and I'd like to know how the individual Squigs compare size-wise to the torso of the Deff Dread.

Fw has had zero impact on rules since first 8e rules.

Which is why fw unit rules are bad. Can't have players buying resin when plastic has higher profit margin

tneva82 wrote:
Fw has had zero impact on rules since first 8e rules.

Which is why fw unit rules are bad. Can't have players buying resin when plastic has higher profit margin

I think it's more strategic thing. With so many great third party sculptors, the maturity of 3D printing and the immense growth of the community, resin models manufactures by hand simply have losts their reason to exist outside of extremely expensive titans. Therefore GW is winding down the whole thing, investing as little money as possible until it's gone.

Coh Magnussen wrote:

Forceride wrote:
I don't think so, you can add a mekk and shoot those guns on 3 so it's actually 345 and 355. The value of the tanks is more wounds, more guns and ability to move if opponent get's to close. Also they have more move then kans. It's just a better profile bar melee but you don't want to melee with them.

I think the mek only affects a single model, not a whole unit? Either way I think my grots are gonna build some tanks

That is how we have been playing it at our store (4 ork players in the crusade)

"can select one friendly Orks Vehicle model within 3 " of this model. That Vehicle model ... each time that Vehicle model makes an attack add +1 to the hit roll"

I wish it were the whole unit!

Been trying out the kill tank in two different games, against Thousand sons and now Tyranids.

With a Mek of course.

I was not impressed honestly. Id rather spend my 300 points else where.

Is there an online spreadsheet of our units where I can do things like sort by toughness etc?

Beardedragon wrote:
Been trying out the kill tank in two different games, against Thousand sons and now Tyranids.

With a Mek of course.

I was not impressed honestly. Id rather spend my 300 points else where.

Was this with the bursta kannon presumably? I'm assuming the lack of towering doesn't do it any favours.

What are people's preferred reserves units at the moment? I'm having a reasonable amount of success with my Squiggoth full of Flash Gitz and twin Skorcha Deff Dread coming in from reserves, and my Deffkoptas coming in via deep strike.

Also, assuming you're tight on points; 10 Flash Gitz, 5 Flash Gitz with Badrukk, or are they functionally the same?

Another question if i may:

I am gonna try out my orks for the first time in 10th this weekend.

I am planning to take 20 beastsnaggas + 40 boys (20 shootas, 20 melee).

I also have beast-boss, regular boss and big mek with shokk attack gun.

Would you run them as big blocks of 20 each, or is it more useful to take 6x 10 boys?

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Been trying out the kill tank in two different games, against Thousand sons and now Tyranids.

With a Mek of course.

I was not impressed honestly. Id rather spend my 300 points else where.

Was this with the bursta kannon presumably? I'm assuming the lack of towering doesn't do it any favours.

oh yea it was with the bursta cannon. Towering didnt really do me anything negative it just doesnt really shoot as much as i want to. And its damage output of that kannon is kinda meh when you roll average. Definitely not worth 305 points + 45

 Mickmann wrote:
Another question if i may:

I am gonna try out my orks for the first time in 10th this weekend.

I am planning to take 20 beastsnaggas + 40 boys (20 shootas, 20 melee).

I also have beast-boss, regular boss and big mek with shokk attack gun.

Would you run them as big blocks of 20 each, or is it more useful to take 6x 10 boys?

If they're foot slogging I'd go 3x20 do you maximize the benefit from attached characters. But I'd also mix the shootas and sluggas and have 10 of each in each mob so that they can contribute a small amount of shooting on their way across the board.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Mickmann wrote:
Another question if i may:

I am gonna try out my orks for the first time in 10th this weekend.

I am planning to take 20 beastsnaggas + 40 boys (20 shootas, 20 melee).

I also have beast-boss, regular boss and big mek with shokk attack gun.

Would you run them as big blocks of 20 each, or is it more useful to take 6x 10 boys?

If they're foot slogging I'd go 3x20 do you maximize the benefit from attached characters. But I'd also mix the shootas and sluggas and have 10 of each in each mob so that they can contribute a small amount of shooting on their way across the board.

Agree. If you are not attaching a character 2x10 is better because free nobz.

I don't know if this has been answered already, but how do you feel about the tankbustas in this edition? Are they still viable now, since they have to take rokkit pistols and tankhammer and can only be taken in units of five models?
Would it make sense to run a unit with a KFF Big Mek?

 Bonde wrote:
I don't know if this has been answered already, but how do you feel about the tankbustas in this edition? Are they still viable now, since they have to take rokkit pistols and tankhammer and can only be taken in units of five models?
Would it make sense to run a unit with a KFF Big Mek?

Tankbustas are dead in the water right now. Paying premium points for such a small squad with no way to make the unit larger alongside conflicting weaponry in terms of range and strength means you're much better off just taking things like Mek Gunz if you want consistent ranged firepower.

I could stomach the price if I could adjust the loadout, but yeah box spec just kills them.

Tankbustas maaay become usable if they get a new kit with the upcoming codex, assuming that;

A. They're not grossly overcosted like they are now.

B. They come with a "fixed loadout" of all rokkits and optional tankhammers

C. The codex is actually changing our datasheets rather than just being a new detachment and sheets for whatever new units they give us.

All being said, I'm not too hopeful.

Tankbustas are neat models to use as special weapons in units of Boyz. :')

I kinda assume we are getting a new badruk soon since they discontinued the model.

 Bonde wrote:
I don't know if this has been answered already, but how do you feel about the tankbustas in this edition? Are they still viable now, since they have to take rokkit pistols and tankhammer and can only be taken in units of five models?
Would it make sense to run a unit with a KFF Big Mek?

Sadly, no. The unit is not worth it's points and adding a big mek just makes their efficiency worse. The unit is priced as if it could kill a tank, but it can't - therefore the price should be priced like lootaz, not like flash gits.

By the way, wanted to thank you guys for the feedback on my Beast Snaggas list. I ended up losing to SoB due to some hot rolls for FNP on their part (their Penitent Engines and Mortifiers tanked over 60% of their FNP saves), which let them win a war of attrition, but it was still pretty close since I had an early lead in points. I did see firsthand what people meant by how underwhelming the Kill Rigs are now though. Hitting on 4's for the squig succccks and the loss in AP and ability to be buffed compared to before really hurts their damage output. At their price, they really should have had a 5+ FNP at the very least instead.

I'm going to be playing against Eldar next. Even with the "nerfs" they've received, they're still a solid tier or two above us. I'm going to bring the A-game of Flash Gitz/Badrukk, Gretchin, Beastboss on Squigosaur (with the Killchoppa), Beastbosses in Beast Snagga Boyz units, Mek Gunz and Squighog Boyz with the Nob on Smasha Squig. Are there any suggestions as to what other units I should bring? I guess Kommandos or Stormboyz? I'm kinda assuming I just want to aim for outscoring them since they outdamage us by a country mile.

 Grimskul wrote:
By the way, wanted to thank you guys for the feedback on my Beast Snaggas list. I ended up losing to SoB due to some hot rolls for FNP on their part (their Penitent Engines and Mortifiers tanked over 60% of their FNP saves), which let them win a war of attrition, but it was still pretty close since I had an early lead in points. I did see firsthand what people meant by how underwhelming the Kill Rigs are now though. Hitting on 4's for the squig succccks and the loss in AP and ability to be buffed compared to before really hurts their damage output. At their price, they really should have had a 5+ FNP at the very least instead.

I'm going to be playing against Eldar next. Even with the "nerfs" they've received, they're still a solid tier or two above us. I'm going to bring the A-game of Flash Gitz/Badrukk, Gretchin, Beastboss on Squigosaur (with the Killchoppa), Beastbosses in Beast Snagga Boyz units, Mek Gunz and Squighog Boyz with the Nob on Smasha Squig. Are there any suggestions as to what other units I should bring? I guess Kommandos or Stormboyz? I'm kinda assuming I just want to aim for outscoring them since they outdamage us by a country mile.

Besides the big mek with shockgun for mekguns rerolls 1? more trucks? There really isn't much more. You can try the mekadread.

Played at a local tournament today where i used a silly list with a stompa, a mek, 10 flash gitz/Badrukk in a trukk (jumping out when needing to shoot and all to get rerolls), 20 teleporting boys and 3 trukks with snagga boys (and the mandatory 2x 10 grots) . It was a 3 game tourney and i lost 2 and won 1. I got turn 1 in literally all the games, and only in my winning game, did my Stompa not whiff completely. Oh and it never survived passed turn 2 in any games. It also never managed to get to close combat, ever.

First game against necrons i lost 55-58 so it was close. My first turn i walked up and shot at a Doomsday ark, and did 5 damage. Which he subsequently healed by 2 or something. Yay

Second game was against Chaos Space Marines which was, surprisingly a victory. I expected to lose considering how hard they can actually shoot. Stompa did really well here (didnt do 800 points worth of well but still). It actually landed good shots and did good damage, for the 2 rounds it was alive. Of course it also exploded and killed 2 obliterators, 6 beast snagga boys and a 7 wound trukk so there is that.

Third game was the craziest game of them all, i lost so big it was over by turn 1. Played against Dark angels and their shooting shenanigans. And let me just say, they would NOT need Oath of moment, to even remotely win. But sure. Anyway i DID get turn 1 and all i could see were some desolators, that iImanaged to kill like 3 of. Yea.. A space marine predator then dealt 24 wounds to my Stompa. Ouch. And he still had everything else he needed to shoot. Between his desolators shooting without line of sight and the terrain being more of a shooting lane (to get room for my stompa to get through lol) I legit lost half my army by turn 1. I scored 36 points that game.

To sum up my experience of pros and cons of a stompa.
Pros:
???
Great melee
I mean you can shoot far, and hit hard if the gods smile upon you

Cons:
everything else.
Swingy damage
Swingy shooting
Terrible fething defensive profile for 800 points. Where is my 4+ invul save? Reduction to damage? Anything?
Paying 800 points for such a swingy profile is just not ever going to make sense.


But to be fair i never brought the Stompa to win i just wanted to see what it could do. I was hoping just for a single win and i got it. But seriously, 5 damage from my Deff kannon and supa rokkits to a doomsday ark? And 3 dead desolators from the same 2 weapons? Sure why not. Its not like 800 points worth if stompa should be lethal or anything lol.

But what did well? Flash Gitz with Badrukk is always worth its points. Did gods work in 2 battles. Oh and teleporting boys is really interesting. I should play around with that in maybe squads of 10 rather than 20. Or maybe just 2 lone weirdboys to teleport around to do missions.

Forceride wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
By the way, wanted to thank you guys for the feedback on my Beast Snaggas list. I ended up losing to SoB due to some hot rolls for FNP on their part (their Penitent Engines and Mortifiers tanked over 60% of their FNP saves), which let them win a war of attrition, but it was still pretty close since I had an early lead in points. I did see firsthand what people meant by how underwhelming the Kill Rigs are now though. Hitting on 4's for the squig succccks and the loss in AP and ability to be buffed compared to before really hurts their damage output. At their price, they really should have had a 5+ FNP at the very least instead.

I'm going to be playing against Eldar next. Even with the "nerfs" they've received, they're still a solid tier or two above us. I'm going to bring the A-game of Flash Gitz/Badrukk, Gretchin, Beastboss on Squigosaur (with the Killchoppa), Beastbosses in Beast Snagga Boyz units, Mek Gunz and Squighog Boyz with the Nob on Smasha Squig. Are there any suggestions as to what other units I should bring? I guess Kommandos or Stormboyz? I'm kinda assuming I just want to aim for outscoring them since they outdamage us by a country mile.

Besides the big mek with shockgun for mekguns rerolls 1? more trucks? There really isn't much more. You can try the mekadread.

I think the biggest change for list tailoring is type of Mek guns… KMK is the all rounder that’s usually better but the traktor kannon is brutal vs certain lists. I mean shokk gun and Mek for 3+ reroll 1 is fairly accurate but that’s a lot of investment for a d6+1 mortal wounds vs a flyer unit.

 Jidmah wrote:

Spoiler:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
Only decent? 5 of them still fwoosh 10 GEQ off an objective with the help of their trukk.

I'd say whether to go 5 or 10 is gonna be meta dependent. I'd start looking at 10 more if melee was more common, but currently people do a lot of holding objectives with tokens. The biggest reason to go for 10 IMO is to have them as a tool to help them to have a little cushion to survive overwatch. Lets say your opponent was rocking hexmark destroyers for example - drive a bus of 5 burnas up to them, its just gonna free overwatch and kill 3/5. Drive up 10, and you can still clear the objective.

Kommandos are better at that particular gig of course but sometimes you need something that can pinch hit.

Am I missing something?

A unit of 5 has 4 burnas, which get 4d6 hits, an average of 14 hits, wound 9.33, another 3.11 with full re-rolls 8.29 dead after armor, one or two less for targets not on an objective. If there is a leader with them, they have some extra defensive measures it quickly looks terrible, against orks and marines you might as well not bother shooting at all. Not to mention playing around them is quite easy.

I get your point about lone operatives, but I feel like a dakka jet, SJD or even just a trukk full of beastsnaggas would do a better job for less points.

I love my burnas, but they have been nothing but a huge disappointment so far.

The 2 big shootas between the trukk and the mandatory spanna make up an additional 1.71w vs GEQ, hence my comment. Agreed about additional defenses - I've found few people are actually running min token squads. Mainly I run burnas in 10s or rather 2x5.

Two comments on that:
1) I don't run big shootas on spannas, I see no reason to. KMB have 3 shots flat now and are free.
2) You can't have an infinite amount of trukks anymore, so you are paying an opportunity cost here. Therefore it would be wrong to factor in the trukk as part of the burna unit's value.
In any case,

I've found the fact that they do the majority of their stuff in shooting rather than in melee is the main draw of them for me, because you can move, disembark and shoot, you get a much more reliable approach path to get to something you want to clear off.

That actually is a good point. It has never played out that way for me, and you can't flip objectives this way either. I'd rather use flash gits for this tasks, but if to works for you, sure.

"Against orks and marines you might as well not bother shooting at all" is an odd comment, seeing as they do have the wound rr. A unit of 10 matches the output of snaggaz into MEQs, less effective into orks but they still clear 12.

I was talking about units of 5, but sure. You re-roll ones most of the times, not everything. For 10 you get 8d6 = 28 hits, 15-16 wounds, 2-3 dead marines, including whatever gun the spannas have. Which means you spent 180 points to not even kill a whole unit of marines unless you go for a super narrow target selection (on objective, no defensive buffs, no worthwhile overwatch) in order to get value from them. You can't even properly deny area with their overwatch because most units will just casually walk through the flames.
I prefer to plan for the worst case, not for the best case, because otherwise I'm stuck with sub-optimal units when things don't go my way for whatever reason.
So I'd take 10 beastsnaggas with their reliable 8ish wounds against marines for that trukk over burnas any day. At least they can help me fight through a screen of infiltrators, assault intercessors or a gravis squad when needed and are able to flip an objective against pretty much any marine unit due to OC2.

I've finally had a game with a list that I felt was solid, and burnas played a big role in that. To put it bluntly, I was wrong.

We played to the bottom of T3 with a VP score of 37 to 28, but my regular dark angel opponent was essentially tabled with just 1 inceptor and 3 eliminators lead by a librarian left - and the later would have been in both burna and charge range next turn, so he conceded.

The list was... *drum roll*... a traditional battlewagon bash



We were playing the mission where home objectives don't score for primary and the other objectives start disappearing one by one, so the gretchin were kind of useless outside of generating a single CP over the course of the game. I did draw a tactical objective which required my to hold the home objective and the other unit did make a unit of bolter inceptor deep strike on them without a single VP to show for the effort, so that's a win in my book.
Da red gobbo really should be a codex unit, he is a great way to spend your last few points and give a non-mans land rushing grot unit some bite. Shouldn't be too hard to make a non-festive version of him, right?

Flash gits are bonkers. This is my first game with them ever, and true to my ork nature I drove them straight to the biggest thing on the table (a repulsor), jumped out and opened fire. Despite not getting the extra attacks for aiming at the closest target, the tank was blown away and left behind a very unhappy unit of now footbound bladeguard lead by a judicar. Needless to say, my opponent completely freaked, oathed them and clobbered them to green paste afterwards. Still worth it, ork shooting hasn't been that effective since 5th edition lootas.
Bringing a battlewagon as a ride instead of a truck also paid off. Despite being oath'ed my opponent whiffed a couple of big guns on it and then decided to cut his losses and killed a nobz' trukk instead.

True to the battlewagon bash, I absolutely brought a burna wagon, and it did the arch-arsonist proud. First turn it torched a unit of helblasters, second turn the bladeguard went up in smoke and turn 3 the burnas jumped out to get their re-rolls and burned a deathwing command squad to the ground (triggering the concession). Just like with the lootas, the KMB pulled a lot of their weight, especially with the mek running behind the wagon and buffing them to 4+ absolutely being worth every single point.

Both battlewagon's guns amounted to pretty much nothing despite mek buffs, but the extra durability over a trukk was absolutely necessary for the units they were transporting. Their melee is okish, but not that great against units with good saves - however the mek buff works for both shooting and melee, the battlewagon still go some mileage out of it. I even got to use carreen! for the first time when the git's transport was killed by bladeguard, though I used it to move it away from my own units.

The KBB didn't add much value. The most dangerous units were usually those making use of oath of monent, so the -1 to hit didn't do anything at all. Otherwise the gun lacks AP, the brunas lack range.
SJD, on the flip side, were awesome. In just 3 turns they scored 15 VP by jumping to wherever I needed them, always taking care to not put them in harms way and took potshots at whatever was in range. The occasional devastating wounds trigger always was... well, devastating to the unit hit by it. They also synergize well with meks, as you can jump directly onto them for a repair job and them shoot someone with a 2+ shokk rifle and 4+ rokkit.

Nobz were being nobz, killing stuff with klaws, taking shooting way above their weight class. It's worth noting that they were unable to do anything about the bladeguard buffed with fight first from the judicar or even the judicar itself.

Kommadoz are a no-brainer for T1 scoring, did nothing worth noting otherwise.

 Grimskul wrote:

Tankbustas are dead in the water right now. Paying premium points for such a small squad with no way to make the unit larger alongside conflicting weaponry in terms of range and strength means you're much better off just taking things like Mek Gunz if you want consistent ranged firepower.

 JohnU wrote:
I could stomach the price if I could adjust the loadout, but yeah box spec just kills them.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Tankbustas maaay become usable if they get a new kit with the upcoming codex, assuming that;

A. They're not grossly overcosted like they are now.

B. They come with a "fixed loadout" of all rokkits and optional tankhammers

C. The codex is actually changing our datasheets rather than just being a new detachment and sheets for whatever new units they give us.

All being said, I'm not too hopeful.

 LunarSol wrote:
Tankbustas are neat models to use as special weapons in units of Boyz. :')

 Jidmah wrote:

Sadly, no. The unit is not worth it's points and adding a big mek just makes their efficiency worse. The unit is priced as if it could kill a tank, but it can't - therefore the price should be priced like lootaz, not like flash gits.

Thanks for the answers guys. That was exactly what I feared. I guess we need to wait for for the codex for them to be fixed. Perhaps they will get a new kit with all rokkit options. I can see that being forced to take one melee weapon, and one short range weapon in a small, elite priced unit just doesn't make sense. The only way it would make sense would be to make the models with tankhammer and rokkit pistols very cheap in points, but that still leaves you with three models that can actually shoot.