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MANz went down and MAboss and MAmek too. Together the pack goes down around 30p, which is nothing to sniff about!

Nobz and Warboss both down is also pretty crazy. Cheap crumpmachine!

Baldrukk is down for 15p, so the same for Flashgitz.

Snikrot and Zagstruk went down for 10/20p which makes us to reconsider their use with their units. But nothing game changing imho.

Buggies are stupid because of rules. You cannot save it by points.

IMPORTANT QUESTION IS, HOW THE OTHER ARMIES ARE AFFECTED? And how this changes affect us?

 Tomsug wrote:
MANz went down and MAboss and MAmek too. Together the pack goes down around 30p, which is nothing to sniff about!

Nobz and Warboss both down is also pretty crazy. Cheap crumpmachine!

Baldrukk is down for 15p, so the same for Flashgitz.

Snikrot and Zagstruk went down for 10/20p which makes us to reconsider their use with their units. But nothing game changing imho.

Buggies are stupid because of rules. You cannot save it by points.

IMPORTANT QUESTION IS, HOW THE OTHER ARMIES ARE AFFECTED? And how this changes affect us?

Well looking at our main hurdle, Aeldari, I think we'll do okay. Alex Petford's 1st place list from the All Stars heat 4 tournament on 26/08/2023, his list is now 2265 points and came with some significant nerfs to Towering, Overwatch and Mortal Wound mechanics.

The 2nd place list from the same event used by John Swallow is sitting at 2255 points with the same nerfs I mentioned above.


Into Custodes, Joel Larsson's 3rd place list from the Grimdark 14 Indexhammer tournament is now 2015 points, but lost two Custodian Wardens (he has 2x6 where the new max is 5 per squad).

Keko Jones' 3rd place list from the Iberian Perretes tournament is now 2040, but again lost two Wardens and now has to split his 10 Custodian Guard into 2 units.

Both Custodes lists have also bit hit by some rules stuff.


Now that both of our biggest threats have been hit and Devastating Wounds don't spill over, I think we're going to be fine going forward.

Tau are the new s tier tho. We won't be able to compete.

need to rethink the loadup of my trukks now. mainly went with snaggaz+BB... now warboss+5nobz look really juicy.

snaggaz+BB in trukk went up 30 points, which is a real shame... (and i really dont know why)
boyz+warboss in trukk went up 5 points
nobz+WB in trukk went down 5 points


Deffdread for 130 also looks quiet nice. and with moz and/or squigboss on the board, he may survive a turn or two!

 Afrodactyl wrote:

Well looking at our main hurdle, Aeldari, I think we'll do okay.

Both Custodes lists have also bit hit by some rules stuff.

Now that both of our biggest threats have been hit and Devastating Wounds don't spill over, I think we're going to be fine going forward.

Great analysis, it's good to know the points differential on those top placing lists.

The Devastating Wounds change is huge, really huge. For Eldar they will still be very effective at nuking tanks and monsters off the field but will now have to put in more effort into removing squads. With the points hike they will be more manageable but I do suspect they'll still be taking top places because points hikes only go so far.

Custodes received some points adjustments which hurt for a very small unit count army, and the Arbites squad going up to minimum 10 (plus Voidsmen also getting a price hike) means the token backfield objective will likely switch back to SoS or whatever other Imperial Agent is points efficient. That said there are two very big changes that will likely knock them out of the top spot. The free strat change means they can't get Fight First on several units making them much more vulnerable to us in Melee. The second is that devastating wounds makes their detachment ability (FnP 4+++ vs MW) almost non-existent. Headwoppa, jaws and kombis suddenly become a lot more powerful against an army with a low model count who lost their major defensive ability.

 Tomsug wrote:
MANz went down and MAboss and MAmek too. Together the pack goes down around 30p, which is nothing to sniff about!

Nobz and Warboss both down is also pretty crazy. Cheap crumpmachine!

Baldrukk is down for 15p, so the same for Flashgitz.

Snikrot and Zagstruk went down for 10/20p which makes us to reconsider their use with their units. But nothing game changing imho.

Buggies are stupid because of rules. You cannot save it by points.

IMPORTANT QUESTION IS, HOW THE OTHER ARMIES ARE AFFECTED? And how this changes affect us?

Mainly custodes, gsc and imperial knights got neutered… deathwatch and thousand sons hit hard… eldar took a big hit but still likely the best codex.. tau was decent and got good buffs overall… orks was decent and got slightly cheaper overall. If I had to guess orks are probbaly in the top 5 with eldar and tau and maybe space marines and Tyranids when thier power creep codexs come out but until then eldar are probably on top.

Smasha Squigs getting cheaper is an interesting change. Likely to tip the usage of that unit quite a bit. The difference between the 4 vs the 3 was pretty significant, just only worth the cost with the Headwhoppa. Now though...

 The Red Hobbit wrote:


Custodes received some points adjustments which hurt for a very small unit count army, and the Arbites squad going up to minimum 10 (plus Voidsmen also getting a price hike) means the token backfield objective will likely switch back to SoS or whatever other Imperial Agent is points efficient. That said there are two very big changes that will likely knock them out of the top spot. The free strat change means they can't get Fight First on several units making them much more vulnerable to us in Melee. The second is that devastating wounds makes their detachment ability (FnP 4+++ vs MW) almost non-existent. Headwoppa, jaws and kombis suddenly become a lot more powerful against an army with a low model count who lost their major defensive ability.

the devastating wounds change is a massive nerf for custodes... no "free" 4++ for them anymore
generally very good for us

 LunarSol wrote:
Smasha Squigs getting cheaper is an interesting change. Likely to tip the usage of that unit quite a bit. The difference between the 4 vs the 3 was pretty significant, just only worth the cost with the Headwhoppa. Now though...

Honestly, 170 point for 3 Hogs, a Smasha and a Bomb Squig is so good. The Headwoppa is just icing on the cake really.

I'm glad I have loads of them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedNoak wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:


Custodes received some points adjustments which hurt for a very small unit count army, and the Arbites squad going up to minimum 10 (plus Voidsmen also getting a price hike) means the token backfield objective will likely switch back to SoS or whatever other Imperial Agent is points efficient. That said there are two very big changes that will likely knock them out of the top spot. The free strat change means they can't get Fight First on several units making them much more vulnerable to us in Melee. The second is that devastating wounds makes their detachment ability (FnP 4+++ vs MW) almost non-existent. Headwoppa, jaws and kombis suddenly become a lot more powerful against an army with a low model count who lost their major defensive ability.

the devastating wounds change is a massive nerf for custodes... no 4++ against them anymore
generally very good for us

It basically doesn't do anything to us outside of like.... 2 or 3 abilities. Most of our devastating wounds stuff was only ever going into single targets anyway.

Still ignores all fnp's vs mortal wounds. So on that front it can even be buff

Surprisingly my 6+ trukk list got more expensive with 10+ points. Which is slightly annoying considering there doesnt seem to be a reason to it being more expensive.

But its also not a problem, as ill just remove supa cybork from my Weirdboy.

Over all, as with all balance slates for orks, some things dont make sense at all (Buggies for instance not getting any love, and the stompa being 800 points still) But over all it looks good. We werent nerf'ed when everyone else got hit. thats good.

Considering crons we’re probably the closest to us tier wise albeit with better tourney results and they got hit with a good amount of points nerfs I’d say orks made out pretty good overall in this balance. Stodes, knights, and eldar all nerfed pretty good which were our hard counters.

These point changes feel like "Just make adjustments so it looks like we care"

Actually struggling units? not touched.
Decent units and/or good units? buffed....randomly....
Beastboss hit pretty hard for some reason
Morkanaut actually went down, dont forget it already got mega nerfed for some dumb reason awhile ago so it was WAY more expensive than the Gork.

Only adjustment that feels like it was thought about was Trukks and Mekgunz. Trukks are honestly weirdly cheap and Mekgunz did feel slightly undercosted imo.

Not a damn thing to buggies or planes.
Grots got buffed though....yaknow the unit literally everyone brings somehow got buffed lol....not complaining but waat?

Planes will get no love anytime soon. I don' t feel that the planes of any army are welcome in the game right now. Maybe different rules?

Buggies are definitely ruined by stupid rules. The best you can do by reducing points is create cheap backfield indirect camping squiglauncha.

1. The problem with the buggies is - they are too slow and on too bloody big bases.

Hard to move
Hard to hide
Cannot take too much on the table.

The only moment when the buggies worked nice fine the Speedmob AOR with advance without any penalties. Auto advance 6” will be even better.

Buggies needs to be faster to deal with their huge bases to be able to go anywhere. Solve it and half of the problem done.

2. Their weapons sucks. They need more dakka. Much more.

3. Price reduction is not an issue, because of the big bases you simply cannot have a buggy for 50p because you won' t be able to put your army in deployment




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
These point changes feel like "Just make adjustments so it looks like we care"

Actually struggling units? not touched.
Decent units and/or good units? buffed....randomly....
Beastboss hit pretty hard for some reason
Morkanaut actually went down, dont forget it already got mega nerfed for some dumb reason awhile ago so it was WAY more expensive than the Gork.

Only adjustment that feels like it was thought about was Trukks and Mekgunz. Trukks are honestly weirdly cheap and Mekgunz did feel slightly undercosted imo.

Not a damn thing to buggies or planes.
Grots got buffed though....yaknow the unit literally everyone brings somehow got buffed lol....not complaining but waat?

Naah it looks pretty logical to me. Before we was forced to buy Beastboss and Beastsnagga boyz, now we ' re forced to budy warboss and nobz and the old stuff. Makes absolutely sence. BB band comes back with the codex.

[

 Tomsug wrote:


Naah it looks pretty logical to me. Before we was forced to buy Beastboss and Beastsnagga boyz, now we ' re forced to budy warboss and nobz and the old stuff. Makes absolutely sence. BB band comes back with the codex.

Not like we're forced to. They got just like 15 pt cheaper or Smth like that. You can still run bare bones boyz in your trukks.

 Tomsug wrote:
Buggies needs to be faster to deal with their huge bases to be able to go anywhere. Solve it and half of the problem done.

The traffic jam issue has gotten much better in 10th though, as unstable ground has disappeared and you can now move through friendly non-vehicles - which includes squighogs and the wartrike.

2. Their weapons sucks. They need more dakka. Much more.

Yes. Something like lethal hits would be nice. Most of them should be assault, too.

3. Price reduction is not an issue, because of the big bases you simply cannot have a buggy for 50p because you won' t be able to put your army in deployment

Agree. In my opinion an extra point of toughness would be great. A measly landspeeder has T8-9. A buggy should be in that range as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
[

 Tomsug wrote:


Naah it looks pretty logical to me. Before we was forced to buy Beastboss and Beastsnagga boyz, now we ' re forced to budy warboss and nobz and the old stuff. Makes absolutely sence. BB band comes back with the codex.

Not like we're forced to. They got just like 15 pt cheaper or Smth like that. You can still run bare bones boyz in your trukks.

I agree. I think the reduction for nobz was at least partially a counterweight to the trukk nerf, as they clearly wanted to hit snagga trukks but were fine with other uses for trukks, which included nobz, burnas boyz and flash gits.

And honestly, all of your should be around for long enough to know that a data slate is not going to address every single struggling model. GW has literally told us that they don't really address models which see almost no play, as they have no data on them.

The only change that puzzles me is why gretchin have gotten cheaper, maybe some game-wide change, who knows.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

the devastating wounds change is a massive nerf for custodes... no 4++ against them anymore
generally very good for us

It basically doesn't do anything to us outside of like.... 2 or 3 abilities. Most of our devastating wounds stuff was only ever going into single targets anyway.

Nonono
Custodes got fnp against MW. Since dev wounds are no longer MW, they won't get their fnp save.

So killchoppa vs custodes and other dev wounds methods got really buffed (basically double the DMG output)

And since custodes are one of the armies we really struggle with... great news


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@snaggaz and BB price increase...

Were they really used that much? I mean, I was getting quite some flag here for suggesting snaggaz with BB were better than boys + WB (in trukks)

What do you guys suggest putting into a trukk with 5nobz +WB?
- another unit of nobz?
- burnaz?
- meganobz?
- nothing?

RedNoak wrote:
What do you guys suggest putting into a trukk with 5nobz +WB?
- another unit of nobz?
- burnaz?
- meganobz?
- nothing?

Nothing IMO. The 9 out of 10 times, the trukk is going to be blown mile high anyways (which is exactly what you want, as there is no efficient way to do so), so any other unit inside will not enjoy any benefits from being in it.
I'd rather add a unit to the list that brings value by itself and pick it up when the trukk doesn't serve other purpose (can't help with scoring objectives or block LoS/movement).

BB pack was not so common because not so many people have the models. This was the first time it worth to play them ever…

RedNoak wrote:

Nonono
Custodes got fnp against MW. Since dev wounds are no longer MW, they won't get their fnp save.

So killchoppa vs custodes and other dev wounds methods got really buffed (basically double the DMG output)

And since custodes are one of the armies we really struggle with... great news

[

They lose the FNP against Devastating Wounds, however we lose the spillover, so we're probably going to end up overkilling a few models rather than smashing through whole squads.

RedNoak wrote:
]
Automatically Appended Next Post:
@snaggaz and BB price increase...

Were they really used that much? I mean, I was getting quite some flag here for suggesting snaggaz with BB were better than boys + WB (in trukks)

What do you guys suggest putting into a trukk with 5nobz +WB?
- another unit of nobz?
- burnaz?
- meganobz?
- nothing?

It depends. What do you have that would benefit from hitching a ride further upfield vs walking?
Do have anything you think would benefit from sitting in the truck & using it as a mobile firing platform/pillbox?

Another truck with nobz would be my bet.

You get another truck to make action block and be a general nuisance and you have 2 different units forcing fire into both instead of all your eggs in one basket.

I've got a game against a melee oriented MEQ army coming up and I'm curious what loadout people have been using for their Kommandos.

I think I'm most likely going to use them to harass a backfield objective unit or take a midfield objective early depending on the layout. Has anyone found the 2x special shootas worthwhile going into T4 bodies (or T3) targets?

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I've got a game against a melee oriented MEQ army coming up and I'm curious what loadout people have been using for their Kommandos.

I think I'm most likely going to use them to harass a backfield objective unit or take a midfield objective early depending on the layout. Has anyone found the 2x special shootas worthwhile going into T4 bodies (or T3) targets?

I've tried to make them work, but they are simply lacking. Too little range, to little hits, too little AP.
Their biggest issues is that you trade away a choppa, which is actually a rather decent weapon that allows you to threaten and kill models like MEQ which just shrug off close combat weapons. The burna had to go from my squads for the same reason.

In other words, my preferred loadout is PK, ram and rokkit, choppas for the other 7. If the unit is actively moving into melee for the Waaagh! turn, I pluck the rokkit out early. If they are sitting on an objective or moving around where they don't need the extra choppa, I pull it last. I have never regretted bringing the extra rokkits once.

Orks, can you help my friend out? Now that the dataslate has settled down - what are good shooting support units in 10th edotion? My friend has one truck with flash gits and badrukk. But nothing else. What is needed?

That makes a lot of sense, Rokkits continue to be a solid choice. I'm going to mull over whether or not to keep the Burna, since I may need an Overwatch option.

 Niiai wrote:
Orks, can you help my friend out? Now that the dataslate has settled down - what are good shooting support units in 10th edotion? My friend has one truck with flash gits and badrukk. But nothing else. What is needed?

Flash gitz/badrukk is really the only unit worth taking for dedicated shooting. Mek gunz were decent at their price before but got an almost 25% point increase so they're overpriced now imo. Lootas are a better backfield obj holder in place of mek gunz now I'd say and could end up being a really good unit to spam in the near future if we get a great shooting detachment in our codex, but right now I'd just keep them in 1-2 min 5 man units.

Yeah, unfortunately, the Dakka portion of the Ork army is sorely lacking at the moment barring Badrukk and his crew, where bizarrely Badrukk went down in points so now he's even more auto-take. The closest to it being somewhat decent are Rokkit Killa Kanz since they can potentially ignore cover rather consistently with their ability but they're very vulnerable to most weapons and will die very quickly once opponents catch on to their damage potential.

 Niiai wrote:
Orks, can you help my friend out? Now that the dataslate has settled down - what are good shooting support units in 10th edotion? My friend has one truck with flash gits and badrukk. But nothing else. What is needed?

Do not listen to those who will claim there are no good shooting options for Orks.

Look to:
Grot tanks, grot Mega-Tanks, Mek Gunz, Kanz (with rokkits) and anything with a crap load of weapons/firepower & paired with a simple Mek.

Concerning Mek Gunz now being over-priced.... Maybe.
But that doesn't mean the need for ranged firepower/anti-tank has lessened any.

 Niiai wrote:
Orks, can you help my friend out? Now that the dataslate has settled down - what are good shooting support units in 10th edotion? My friend has one truck with flash gits and badrukk. But nothing else. What is needed?

That is the best we have.

Also solid choices are Grot Tanks, Kans with Rokkits.

Maybe Mek Gunz
Maybe Meka Dread with 2 killkannons