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ccs wrote:
Concerning Mek Gunz now being over-priced.... Maybe.
But that doesn't mean the need for ranged firepower/anti-tank has lessened any.

Mmm debatable. Most ork lists doing good pre-balance would completely forego shooting and/or just have badrukks crew plus 2-3 solo mek gunz which were only there for backfield screening and being our tankiest cheap option to hold the back obj. Orks just flat out have the worst shooting in the game right now next to daemons, though they can just ally their shortcomings if needed. Flashgitz wouldn’t even be good without badrukk, he’s really the only git holding together for us. :’(

 Niiai wrote:
Orks, can you help my friend out? Now that the dataslate has settled down - what are good shooting support units in 10th edotion? My friend has one truck with flash gits and badrukk. But nothing else. What is needed?

Flash Gitz are leaps and bound better than any other shooting option we have, with our without Badrukk.

Mek Gunz are still good. They got more expensive, but they still cost next to nothing for reasonable output.

Killa Kanz/Deffkoptas/Grot Tanks/Grot Mega Tanks are all solid choices. Kanz ignore cover, Grot tanks get more volume of shots, Koptas get twin linked and can really get to where they need to go. All solid choices.

Lootas aren't the best but they're now soooo cheap they're at least worth considering, if for nothing more than squatting on an objective and taking pot shots.

Twin Killkannon Meka Dread. On paper it looks solidly alright with some Mek based shenanigans. I haven't actually tested it, so who knows.

We have a number of other units like the buggies and the kill tank that are close to being decent shooting options, but just need a little nudge.

ccs wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Orks, can you help my friend out? Now that the dataslate has settled down - what are good shooting support units in 10th edotion? My friend has one truck with flash gits and badrukk. But nothing else. What is needed?

Do not listen to those who will claim there are no good shooting options for Orks.

Look to:
Grot tanks, grot Mega-Tanks, Mek Gunz, Kanz (with rokkits) and anything with a crap load of weapons/firepower & paired with a simple Mek.

Concerning Mek Gunz now being over-priced.... Maybe.
But that doesn't mean the need for ranged firepower/anti-tank has lessened any.

I know being off-meta is your shtick, but I'm going to challenge this.

Grot tanks are absolutely great, I give you that, no argument from my side. Five rokkits on 20 T6 3+ wounds with an ability that mitigate rokkit's short range for 155? Hell yeah. But with the sword of Damocles hanging over all non-titanic FW models, I don't think anyone should invest in those units unless they really want them for their display case or have easy access to a 3D printer. GW has squatted half the FW marine range without any advance notice, and more and more units are either completely neutered or disappearing from the legends documents each time they are revised. I frankly don't expect grot tanks to be around for 11th.
The megatank is just a more tanky version of the scrapjet and while a good package as a whole, two rokkits is hardly what one can claim to be good shooting. If the scrapjet isn't considered good shooting, neither is the megatank.
Kanz are great at shooting, but not at surviving. S12 weapons aren't super common, but many armies at least have a few of them - and when they do, shooting kanz is the absolutely jackpot for them as the wound on 2s and a pair of decent damage rolls can easily take out whole models. Plasma and melta, the redheaded step-children of 10th are brought in good numbers by some armies, simply because they have no other option to stop a knight or a landraider or simply because they are free. These absolutely rip through kanz, and we aren't even considering units which actually good at killing them. If kanz were ~32 points like grot tanks are, I'd have no problem with 6-9 of them dying in my opponent's first turn, but they just aren't durable enough to justify a single rokkit for 50 points, ignore cover or no.

As for "crap load of weapons/firepower & paired with a simple Mek":
- I love my battlewagons, but even with a mek their shooting is nothing to write home about. The killkannon is cute for blowing up a marine or two, but unless you are fighting unarmored hordes the lobba and 4x BS will rarely amount to any damage. If you need the full transport capacity and use a kannon or zzapgun instead, their shooting is pretty much on the level of a mob of kommandoz. Meks still synergize extremely well with BW because it also buffs their melee attack, and because their wounds are not trivial to remove, so 2 or 3 repairs on a BW go a long way to keep it around.
- Buffed wagon/trukk with flash gits inside is decent, you just get out when you really need those lethal hits.
- Buffed wagon/trukk with lootas is a waste of time. Their ability is what makes them worth shooting at all, so keep them on foot and get more lootas instead of a transport. People start picking off your 10ppm lootas? Good.
- rigs don't have enough shots to be worth buffing IMO, and it's difficult to keep up as they can't transport the mek.
- tripple/quad kmb dreads? Maybe. You can get 3 KMB with re-rolls and 12 lootas stapled to them for less though. In addition I would totally zap my own dread for 9 MW in one turn
- A buffed Morkanaut is fun and gets stuff dead, but is somewhere in the ballpark of 100 points too much. They pay way too many points for their over the top klaw that has the potential to one-shot a knight, but then fails to kill a unit of bladeguard. The mek also can't buff the naut any further during a Waaagh!.
- KMB, Snazzwagon, Squigbuggy all have okish guns with lots of shots, but they really struggle to kill anything worthwhile, and +1 to hit doesn't change that.
- SJD and scrapjet are better targets for meks, but neither really allows you to blow away a target you need gone.
- Wazzbom is way too expensive and you can't reliably plonk it down next to a mek. If you make it work, it might barely be worth the points, but that's a big if.
- I guess a stompa would work, no idea if it is worth its points.
- kanz, mek guns, koptas and grot tanks don't work well with meks as they repair a model, not a unit.

So that essentially leaves us with grot tanks, maybe koptas and mek guns as decent shooting options. Kanz, SJD, KMB dreads, wazzbom and naut (in that order) at least tried. All others are pretty much on the same level as any ork mob who happens to bring a KMB/rokkit along, the might be decent all-rounders or have great abilities, but they won't pull their weight in a gunline.

And note that I don't really play against tournament grade lists or even tournament grade players. I'm one of the best players in my group, but outside of those veterans who still build lists as if lascannon could kill a tank like it did in 4th, no one has any issues tearing appart kanz who moved forward to shoot something.

That's a very solid analysis Jidmah. The only thing I'll contest is the viability of the Kill Rig, but specifically as an anti-vehicle unit. D3 autohitting shots at S12 AP-3 Dd6 from the Wurrtower is actually pretty decent for what it is. It's swingy as hell and certainly should never be relied on because of the number of shots, but sometimes it will crack open a hard target.

It's by no means a good shooting unit, but it's a unit that doesn't really need babysitting by a Mek, and fills other roles in the list. It's more of a melee transport that will occasionally tear open a tank with the Wurrtower before charging what comes spilling out.


But in all seriousness, right now I'd suggest we probably don't need that many shooting units. A block of Gitz (preferably with Badrukk) and one or two supplementary units of Kanz/koptas/KMKs/Grot Tanks is all you're likely to need until we get a Dakkawaaagh detachment in the codex.

Lots of our shooty units are right on the cusp of being good, and I'd imagine that just being given one rule that either impacts how often we hit or how often those hits wound is all most of them need.

Oh, I absolutely like the kill rig and it's probably a good unit when you look at the combined transport, shooting, melee and buff abilities.

But it's a jack of all trades, not a shooting unit and a mek is wasted on it.

In general, I would abandon the "babysitter" mentality when running meks. Mine bounce around the army helping where they are needed most - sometimes repairing a buggy is more valuable than adding +1 to hit to a battlewagon who is going to shooting a sub-optimal target anyways, plus they can help grabbing objectives or being in places for secondaries near the end of the game - lone operative tends to keep them alive a lot longer than they should be.

Thanks for the breakdown Jidmah (and Afrodyctal); nice to have your thoughts now the new points etc are out. I'm ten weeks out from a GT and looking at what I need to model; lootas might well be on the list.
Interesting re: meks. In your opinion, if I'm advancing a gorkanaut up on T1 for a T2 waaargh charge, is it worth having the mek on board, to heal it, and buff it T3 if it's still alive?

 PaddyMick wrote:
Thanks for the breakdown Jidmah (and Afrodyctal); nice to have your thoughts now the new points etc are out. I'm ten weeks out from a GT and looking at what I need to model; lootas might well be on the list.
Interesting re: meks. In your opinion, if I'm advancing a gorkanaut up on T1 for a T2 waaargh charge, is it worth having the mek on board, to heal it, and buff it T3 if it's still alive?

If you advance and charge, your mek that had to be within 3" by the end of its movement phase will be sitting alone somewhere in the middle of the board, where it will most likely be casually shot.
One turn of +1 to hit is not worth 45 points

And yes, been there, done that

Yeah, generally i try to discourage FW stuff in my area. Not because i dont like FW, but because of the looming "discontinued" fear.
If you already got it, sure use it whatever. Dont buy it. I'm still extremely pissed off the Supakannon Wagon is legends now, since i have 3 of them (1 official, 2 Kromlechs)

Mek Gunz arent bad at 55pts, they just arent amazeballs good. The bigger issue with Mek Gunz is if you arent a kitbash savvy person or willing (or allowed) to 3D print, they are EXPENSIVE AS HELL
Normally, i try to buy some of the original model so i can claim i 3D print for variety. F the mek gun, never buying that kit. Love the unit, hate the price.

When in doubt, scratch build! Grot tanks can be made pretty easily with Advance wars papercraft tanks. Print em out, glue them to plasticard (Or just thick card) add some details/ weapons and boom ya got yerself some grot tanks with a nice chibi style. I'll post a pic some time soon.

cody.d. wrote:
When in doubt, scratch build! Grot tanks can be made pretty easily with Advance wars papercraft tanks. Print em out, glue them to plasticard (Or just thick card) add some details/ weapons and boom ya got yerself some grot tanks with a nice chibi style. I'll post a pic some time soon.

Scratch building is still a lot of time, effort and money(for materials) invested into a unit that might cease to exist tomorrow.

 Jidmah wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Orks, can you help my friend out? Now that the dataslate has settled down - what are good shooting support units in 10th edotion? My friend has one truck with flash gits and badrukk. But nothing else. What is needed?

Do not listen to those who will claim there are no good shooting options for Orks.

Look to:
Grot tanks, grot Mega-Tanks, Mek Gunz, Kanz (with rokkits) and anything with a crap load of weapons/firepower & paired with a simple Mek.

Concerning Mek Gunz now being over-priced.... Maybe.
But that doesn't mean the need for ranged firepower/anti-tank has lessened any.

I know being off-meta is your shtick, but I'm going to challenge this.

Grot tanks are absolutely great, I give you that, no argument from my side. Five rokkits on 20 T6 3+ wounds with an ability that mitigate rokkit's short range for 155? Hell yeah. But with the sword of Damocles hanging over all non-titanic FW models, I don't think anyone should invest in those units unless they really want them for their display case or have easy access to a 3D printer. GW has squatted half the FW marine range without any advance notice, and more and more units are either completely neutered or disappearing from the legends documents each time they are revised. I frankly don't expect grot tanks to be around for 11th.
The megatank is just a more tanky version of the scrapjet and while a good package as a whole, two rokkits is hardly what one can claim to be good shooting. If the scrapjet isn't considered good shooting, neither is the megatank.
Kanz are great at shooting, but not at surviving. S12 weapons aren't super common, but many armies at least have a few of them - and when they do, shooting kanz is the absolutely jackpot for them as the wound on 2s and a pair of decent damage rolls can easily take out whole models. Plasma and melta, the redheaded step-children of 10th are brought in good numbers by some armies, simply because they have no other option to stop a knight or a landraider or simply because they are free. These absolutely rip through kanz, and we aren't even considering units which actually good at killing them. If kanz were ~32 points like grot tanks are, I'd have no problem with 6-9 of them dying in my opponent's first turn, but they just aren't durable enough to justify a single rokkit for 50 points, ignore cover or no.

As for "crap load of weapons/firepower & paired with a simple Mek":
- I love my battlewagons, but even with a mek their shooting is nothing to write home about. The killkannon is cute for blowing up a marine or two, but unless you are fighting unarmored hordes the lobba and 4x BS will rarely amount to any damage. If you need the full transport capacity and use a kannon or zzapgun instead, their shooting is pretty much on the level of a mob of kommandoz. Meks still synergize extremely well with BW because it also buffs their melee attack, and because their wounds are not trivial to remove, so 2 or 3 repairs on a BW go a long way to keep it around.
- Buffed wagon/trukk with flash gits inside is decent, you just get out when you really need those lethal hits.
- Buffed wagon/trukk with lootas is a waste of time. Their ability is what makes them worth shooting at all, so keep them on foot and get more lootas instead of a transport. People start picking off your 10ppm lootas? Good.
- rigs don't have enough shots to be worth buffing IMO, and it's difficult to keep up as they can't transport the mek.
- tripple/quad kmb dreads? Maybe. You can get 3 KMB with re-rolls and 12 lootas stapled to them for less though. In addition I would totally zap my own dread for 9 MW in one turn
- A buffed Morkanaut is fun and gets stuff dead, but is somewhere in the ballpark of 100 points too much. They pay way too many points for their over the top klaw that has the potential to one-shot a knight, but then fails to kill a unit of bladeguard. The mek also can't buff the naut any further during a Waaagh!.
- KMB, Snazzwagon, Squigbuggy all have okish guns with lots of shots, but they really struggle to kill anything worthwhile, and +1 to hit doesn't change that.
- SJD and scrapjet are better targets for meks, but neither really allows you to blow away a target you need gone.
- Wazzbom is way too expensive and you can't reliably plonk it down next to a mek. If you make it work, it might barely be worth the points, but that's a big if.
- I guess a stompa would work, no idea if it is worth its points.
- kanz, mek guns, koptas and grot tanks don't work well with meks as they repair a model, not a unit.

So that essentially leaves us with grot tanks, maybe koptas and mek guns as decent shooting options. Kanz, SJD, KMB dreads, wazzbom and naut (in that order) at least tried. All others are pretty much on the same level as any ork mob who happens to bring a KMB/rokkit along, the might be decent all-rounders or have great abilities, but they won't pull their weight in a gunline.

And note that I don't really play against tournament grade lists or even tournament grade players. I'm one of the best players in my group, but outside of those veterans who still build lists as if lascannon could kill a tank like it did in 4th, no one has any issues tearing appart kanz who moved forward to shoot something.

Killtank + Mek!

It has natural +1 to hit

Bursta cannon looks nice though. I must admit I've lost all interest in kill tanks when the kill krusha was squatted.

Bursta Kannon does look good. I could see a Kill Tank loaded with a Warboss+Nobz charging straight up the middle of the board being both and possibly viable for all of like, one game

The main issue I can see is that with a Baneblade sized footprint it can be hard to do anything with it, and while it's fairly tough, it's going to die quick to dedicated AT weapons. So while it might lurk near the middle of the board and threaten stuff that comes within range, it's very much a sitting duck and will probably be the quickest 300 points of models you'll ever lose.

Unless you took 3 of them....

I hope Jidmah do not kill me for this, but for those, who do not want to be competitive with dyno BS units, I forced my 3d printing genius buddy to do some STL alternative of mecha riders I call Ork Dread Riders So you can be competitive even without dynos and other kind of AoS feelings And I' ve converted this STLs even more anyone interested, check myminifactory etc.

MyMiniFactory https://bit.ly/45LH4uD
Our sites https://bit.ly/3LkR7OV

In case this cross the rules of the groupe too much, feel free to delete me Jidmah, but I' m such a happy from their existence, I need to share

*looks at checklist*
[x] Is post about orks?
[x] Waaagh!

Seems to fulfill all requirements

 Jidmah wrote:
*looks at checklist*
[x] Is post about orks?
[x] Waaagh!

Seems to fulfill all requirements

Waaaaaagh!

 Tomsug wrote:
I hope Jidmah do not kill me for this, but for those, who do not want to be competitive with dyno BS units, I forced my 3d printing genius buddy to do some STL alternative of mecha riders I call Ork Dread Riders So you can be competitive even without dynos and other kind of AoS feelings And I' ve converted this STLs even more anyone interested, check myminifactory etc.

In case this cross the rules of the groupe too much, feel free to delete me Jidmah, but I' m such a happy from their existence, I need to share

Thanks for sharing! Definitely a different take on the mechanized version of Beast Snaggas, personally I find it hilarious it's basically a ridable power klaw, so two green thumbs up from me!

 Grimskul wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
I hope Jidmah do not kill me for this, but for those, who do not want to be competitive with dyno BS units, I forced my 3d printing genius buddy to do some STL alternative of mecha riders I call Ork Dread Riders So you can be competitive even without dynos and other kind of AoS feelings And I' ve converted this STLs even more anyone interested, check myminifactory etc.

In case this cross the rules of the groupe too much, feel free to delete me Jidmah, but I' m such a happy from their existence, I need to share

Thanks for sharing! Definitely a different take on the mechanized version of Beast Snaggas, personally I find it hilarious it's basically a ridable power klaw, so two green thumbs up from me!

Infantry and Rigs on the way!

I'm trying to make my beastsnaggas look more like metal/punk/rock fans. I'm fine with the regular snagga boyz and the squigs (got burna and pilot heads on all of the riders though), but neither the kill rig nor the characters particularly strike my fancy.

My kill rig is supposed to look somewhat similar to the speaker tower trukk from Mad Max Fury Road, complete with the goff rokka as Wurrboy, and I got some members of the Artel rockband to use them as beastboss and painboss.

Sadly the guy printing the rig for me is busy with life (and the model has proven to be a bitch to print), so I'm still waiting for him to finish it.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm trying to make my beastsnaggas look more like metal/punk/rock fans. I'm fine with the regular snagga boyz and the squigs (got burna and pilot heads on all of the riders though), but neither the kill rig nor the characters particularly strike my fancy.

My kill rig is supposed to look somewhat similar to the speaker tower trukk from Mad Max Fury Road, complete with the goff rokka as Wurrboy, and I got some members of the Artel rockband to use them as beastboss and painboss.

Sadly the guy printing the rig for me is busy with life (and the model has proven to be a bitch to print), so I'm still waiting for him to finish it.

Yeah, imho huge part of ork community has this in their mind! There was ahuge Mad Max wave! Why GW did not surfed on this wave? My guess is they are so perplexed from their copyright policy they was too afraid to design anything that looks like something….

I have this rokkers too for the same pourpose. 2 rigs are on the way. One is called “waaagh FM” and the second one “waaaagh TV”…

Whats the current take of Deff Dreads? Any good? 3x claw + rockets?

Looking at them at a decently tanky option with some high-ish strength, Dam3 weapons they seem interesting.
8" move is also a nice treat. Battleshock in melee is... something?

Tollwut wrote:
Whats the current take of Deff Dreads? Any good? 3x claw + rockets?

Looking at them at a decently tanky option with some high-ish strength, Dam3 weapons they seem interesting.
8" move is also a nice treat. Battleshock in melee is... something?

I'm using one with 2 Klaws and 2 Skorchas, coming in from reserves alongside a Squiggoth full of Flash Gitz and I'm really enjoying it. It hits pretty hard, is decently fast and the battleshock ability is situationally nice when it goes off.

The main issue is that it will never survive a walk up the board unless you've got something far scarier to take shots for it.

It's certainly much better now it's had a points drop.

You can make them shooty with rokkits or KMBs, but Kans are the better option if you want stompy and shooty.

PaddyMick wrote:Thanks for the breakdown Jidmah (and Afrodyctal); nice to have your thoughts now the new points etc are out. I'm ten weeks out from a GT and looking at what I need to model; lootas might well be on the list.

I ran 20 Lootas in my last game and they were an absolute blast! I'm currently putting together a 3rd squad for my next game. Jidmah is right, inside the Trukk Lootas are pointless and the whole setup is too costly, their ability is so valuable so leave them on foot.

Also thanks to whoever reminded me a few pages ago you can't Overwatch while embarked, I almost did so but then remembered I could not at the last second.

cody.d. wrote:When in doubt, scratch build! Grot tanks can be made pretty easily with Advance wars papercraft tanks. Print em out, glue them to plasticard (Or just thick card) add some details/ weapons and boom ya got yerself some grot tanks with a nice chibi style. I'll post a pic some time soon.

I'm really interested in seeing these. I saw some grot tanks in a video recently that looked a lot like the cheap plastic tanks you get at the dollar store with some Orky bits slapped on.

Tomsug wrote:I hope Jidmah do not kill me for this, but for those, who do not want to be competitive with dyno BS units, I forced my 3d printing genius buddy to do some STL alternative of mecha riders I call Ork Dread Riders So you can be competitive even without dynos and other kind of AoS feelings And I' ve converted this STLs even more anyone interested, check myminifactory etc.

These look awesome. I'm not a fan of the beastsnaggas aesthetic (but I admit Mozrog is a fun model) and these make for an excellent replacement. Are physical versions of these sold anywhere?

I'd give Lootas a try, but I haven't figured out how to squiggify them yet

When you guys are running Lootas, are you just taking min squads of 5 on objectives or are you taking 10 man squads to max out more shots?

 Grimskul wrote:
When you guys are running Lootas, are you just taking min squads of 5 on objectives or are you taking 10 man squads to max out more shots?

So far I've always run 10 because I wanted enough firepower to make their firing lanes threatening. While their average output isn't that awesome, the scary profiles and potential damage makes people not want to put units into their crosshairs. Make sure to point out to opponents that deff gunz are S8 now
When running 5 it always feels like "this could have been a mek gun or gretchin unit instead".

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
When you guys are running Lootas, are you just taking min squads of 5 on objectives or are you taking 10 man squads to max out more shots?

So far I've always run 10 because I wanted enough firepower to make their firing lanes threatening. While their average output isn't that awesome, the scary profiles and potential damage makes people not want to put units into their crosshairs. Make sure to point out to opponents that deff gunz are S8 now
When running 5 it always feels like "this could have been a mek gun or gretchin unit instead".

Gotcha, thanks for the feedback as always Jidmah. I was inclined towards 10 man units so I'm glad my gut instinct was right since I figured that as a unit that hangs back and won't be in rapid fire range in most games needed the extra shots so it doesn't feel like you're wasting a turn shooting. Do you stick with KMB because of their damage or do big shootas for the spannerz have some utility with their longer range?

Hi guys,

My last (and first !) tournament was in 9th with a 1-5 result and in November i'll try again with my lovely orks.

I want to play for 2k pts:

Mozrog
Squigboss + Headwhoppa
3 * Warboss (1 with follow me)
2 * SquigNob

2 * beastboyz + Trukks
3 * 5 Nobz (5 PK) + trukks
3 * Shockboyz
2 * 3 SquigHogs
11 * gretchins

Do you think it is competitive enough ? Any thoughts ?

thank you boyz !

KMB all the way. The big shoota just averages a single hit with 0 AP at long distance, so it's not even worth thinking about.

Whether you use rokkits or KMB is really a matter of taste. I absolutely prefer fixed shots and d6 damage over fixed damage and d3(+blast) shots, but YMMV.

Essentially the two KMB have outdamaged the deff guns for me in almost all games as, unlike burna spannas, the benefit from the unit rule. Six shots KMB are pretty scary to many things, especially if they happen to be close to an objective.
Don't be afraid to move those deff gunz to line up good shots with your KMB. I have had games where my lootas didn't get the heavy bonus once, and they still did well.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thori wrote:
Hi guys,

My last (and first !) tournament was in 9th with a 1-5 result and in November i'll try again with my lovely orks.

I want to play for 2k pts:

Mozrog
Squigboss + Headwhoppa
3 * Warboss (1 with follow me)
2 * SquigNob

2 * beastboyz + Trukks
3 * 5 Nobz (5 PK) + trukks
3 * Shockboyz
2 * 3 SquigHogs
11 * gretchins

Do you think it is competitive enough ? Any thoughts ?

thank you boyz !

I wouldn't bother with follow me on a warboss that is riding a trukk. Pick one or the other, a follow me! unit can easily keep up with trukks. Outside of that, looks solid.

Anyone else a little more unsure about beastsnagga boyz with a beast boss? 5 Nobz plus warboss seem a much better deal for 35pts less