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Surprised I haven't seen anything about this yet, but it looks like WizKids is jumping back into Star Trek games with effectively an Armada clone but seems more focused on missions and narrative.

Main game in April 2024, focused on the Dominion War (woot!)



Images from a Spikey Bits article (website is cancer but I feel the need to link the source) https://spikeybits.com/2023/09/star-trek-into-the-unknown-starter-set-game-details-revealed.html
There's also a gameplay demo video by Paper or Plastic Sports and Games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjBILyzBZ5Q

PDF Rulebook: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w8nb0ow28rE9SWPCp10wOGZWmGoTetYQ/view?pli=1

More info as I can find it!

Requisite “Spiky Tits? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww aside…..

Depending on price point? I could be tempted to pick up certain ships. I love me Star Trek ships, and if these are at least roughly scaled correctly? I can certainly see myself buying some now and again, even if I never get round to playing the game.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Requisite “Spiky Tits? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww aside…..

Depending on price point? I could be tempted to pick up certain ships. I love me Star Trek ships, and if these are at least roughly scaled correctly? I can certainly see myself buying some now and again, even if I never get round to playing the game.

I know, I didn't even want to reference or use them, but I couldn't find the information elsewhere.

The starter looks to be 150, which is decent for 2 players. Scale looks good, Enterprise D has Saucer Separation and can be played as two separate pieces, which is nuts.
I'm right there with you about grabbing stuff and potentially never playing but I think I could rope one or two locals to play.

Heh, wish my partner still worked for them, I'd be rolling in free gak and insider info right now lol.

With Armada basically being dead and canceled, this might have legs to stand on. Depending on the support they give it and the factions they release I might do a buy-in on this, ESPECIALLY if its to scale - which I doubt because a D'deridex scaled to the Enterprise-D/galaxy class there would be massive, but then again it wouldn't necessarily be substantially larger than the Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser there in bulk, as a lot of it is "open space".

chaos0xomega wrote:
Heh, wish my partner still worked for them, I'd be rolling in free gak and insider info right now lol.

With Armada basically being dead and canceled, this might have legs to stand on. Depending on the support they give it and the factions they release I might do a buy-in on this, ESPECIALLY if its to scale - which I doubt because a D'deridex scaled to the Enterprise-D/galaxy class there would be massive, but then again it wouldn't necessarily be substantially larger than the Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser there in bulk, as a lot of it is "open space".

You’re just gonna have to send them some Lovely Flowers then, aren’t you!

Come on man! Ask not wot Dakka can do for you, but wot you can do for Dakka!

As for the scale? I’ll take Approx Scaling over Exact Scaling. So the Enterpise NX-…..F, i think we’re canonically up to? aren’t the exact same size, even if the exact size differences aren’t quite correct.

Enterprise G, actually (Star Trek: Picard), with the Enterprise J existing in a canonical alternate timeline as well (shown in Star Trek: Enterprise).

One thing I will say (which is no longer a secret but not necessarily well publicized) is that Alex Davy went to work for WizKids as Director of Miniatures Gaming after he was booted from Fantasy Flight/Atomic Mass. As one of the designers of Legion, X-Wing, and - yes - Armada, I am sure that this features his finger prints and design ethos all over it, and I have no doubt it will be a quality product.

Wasn’t sure if F or G in confirmed canon, with the J currently being but one possible fyootcha.

Hopefully the prices are more collector only friendly than Armada. Because nice as the models objectively were? Sweet Googly Moogly Dem Prices.

~150 usd seems likely to indicate the price points will be more expensive than Armada

You're not hearing about it, because there's nothing to say.

Star Fleet Battles, or nothing. Anyone else is just a pretender king.

All we know about SW Armada is that there *were* no new products in development when AMG took over, but they've done some print at home expansions - the last was only 6 months ago.

AMG re-confirmed last week on facebook that the statement they released 2 years ago still applies and that they still have no Armada products in development.

The game is dead. Face the facts. Even if they started development on something *today* (which they won't - if they were that close to doing so they would not have said anything, the fact that they did implies that they don't see any funding for Armada development within the next fiscal year at a minimum), we probably wouldn't see a new product until ~2026 unless they really rushed it with repaints of existing ships and some new half-assed cards for them.

The more realistic timeframe for a potential future release would be 2027-2028 at the soonest - if ever.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Depending on price point? I could be tempted to pick up certain ships. I love me Star Trek ships, and if these are at least roughly scaled correctly? I can certainly see myself buying some now and again, even if I never get round to playing the game.

You probably already own the models, WizKids is notorious for releasing game after game reusing all their old (and often poor quality) models from previous games.

Looks great. But I think I'm too deep into Attack Wing to justify another ST game, especially if it’s just the same with larger ships
I'll wait for an away Team game and wonder why Gale force 9 decided to do the most ugly miniatures imaginable for their ST game when they have great minis for their alien game.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Depending on price point? I could be tempted to pick up certain ships. I love me Star Trek ships, and if these are at least roughly scaled correctly? I can certainly see myself buying some now and again, even if I never get round to playing the game.

You probably already own the models, WizKids is notorious for releasing game after game reusing all their old (and often poor quality) models from previous games.

Haven’t bought any for the Attack Wing game, because the scale just wasn’t there (a big selling point for X-Wing for me, at least originally).

But the spoiler pics show a definite sense of scale. Not necessarily 100% accurate like, but enough to be noticable and appreciable. For me at least.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wasn’t sure if F or G in confirmed canon, with the J currently being but one possible fyootcha.

F was the Odyssey-class vessel that was under the command of Fleet Admiral Shelby while the G was Constitution III-class vessel under the command of Captain Seven of Nine.

I could be interested in this if it's approximate scale accurate. Could be really neat if the models aren't trash. We'll see.

If they put out a TOS Enterprise that isn't the size of my thumbnail, I'll be very happy. Attack Wing's scale was all over the place, and they tried at first to properly scale things, but ... it didn't work out. Unfortunately, they never went back and fixed the TOS Enterprise for that game (thankfully, micro machines had me covered).

I collected a good bit of the Star Trek Attack Wing game, which was licensed on the Wings of War/X-Wing engine. The game never quite felt right, but the ships were fun to collect. Ever since SW Armada had come out, I'd always wished they would convert ST Attack Wing to that system, as it fits the "big battleship" much better - Armada plays like big sailing ships broadsiding each other instead of Attack Wings airplane-ish mode.

I'm all in for collecting the models at the least, and I hope they do the rules well enough to make it fun playing it, and so it'll be out long enough to get as many Star Trek ships as possible for it.

Though I could always import my Eaglemoss Star Trek ships, I guess...

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Depending on price point? I could be tempted to pick up certain ships. I love me Star Trek ships, and if these are at least roughly scaled correctly? I can certainly see myself buying some now and again, even if I never get round to playing the game.

You probably already own the models, WizKids is notorious for releasing game after game reusing all their old (and often poor quality) models from previous games.

They're definitely new models, or at least the enterprise d and jem Hadar battlecruiser are, can't comment on the smaller ones.

They're all new models. The Defiant and Jem'Hadar Attack Ships are definitely smaller than the Attack Wing ones and we've clearly seen the D and the Battleship are larger.

I see conversation about ships from different eras, and I wonder how that would even work out. The Enterprise-E would completely out-class the Enterprise-D, nevermind trying to compare it to the OG Enterprise.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But the spoiler pics show a definite sense of scale. Not necessarily 100% accurate like, but enough to be noticable and appreciable. For me at least.

from the looks of the pics, the various ships are in scale with each other. if those bases are similar in size to the SW armada ones, the Galaxy class almost looks like it would be
1:2500th.

definitely seems like they are aiming for a more consistent scale or at least a consistent sliding scale. also looks like the rules might be more complex than attack wing, given the bases and cards, which is good. some of those traits on the cards don't seem to be combat focused, so i'd guess there will be a fair bit of scenario focus, where your force has to deal with more than just blowing the other side apart.

curious to see what scale they went with (kinda hoping it is one that already has plastic models in it, which would be a boon to those wanting to do homebrew) and what the first expansion sets will have in terms of ships and factions. assuming an initial focus on the dominion war i could see Cardassians, breen, klingons, and romulans for sure. Maquis would be a neat addition, though perhaps tricky to implement given their focus on fairly small ships and use of small raiding forces. ferengi might be fun down the line.

you know that eventually we'll get borg.

I wonder just how much this will be like armada rules wise as it's on one of my least favorite space rule sets

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I see conversation about ships from different eras, and I wonder how that would even work out. The Enterprise-E would completely out-class the Enterprise-D, nevermind trying to compare it to the OG Enterprise.

It appears to be a fleet game rather than individual ships, so presumably things work out in the costing of the ships in the fleet.

 insaniak wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I see conversation about ships from different eras, and I wonder how that would even work out. The Enterprise-E would completely out-class the Enterprise-D, nevermind trying to compare it to the OG Enterprise.

It appears to be a fleet game rather than individual ships, so presumably things work out in the costing of the ships in the fleet.

Oh, I would expect that. I'm just saying there's a difference between point costing a Space Marine with a bolter versus a Space Marine with a lascannon, and point costing two different Enterprises with a 100-year difference in technology.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Oh, I would expect that. I'm just saying there's a difference between point costing a Space Marine with a bolter versus a Space Marine with a lascannon, and point costing two different Enterprises with a 100-year difference in technology.

I would think a more apt analogy would be points costing a cultist with a pointy stick vs points costing a dreadnought. A game can easily allow for a wide variance in technology and capability. And if they're making this true to the shows, there will presumably be some wiggle built in to allow for crew capability, not just the ship itself... and we've had plenty of examples through Trek's history of outdated ships emerging victorious (or at least managing not to be completely destroyed) by enemies with vastly superior capabilities thanks to someone's cunning plan.

chaos0xomega wrote:
~150 usd seems likely to indicate the price points will be more expensive than Armada

The game never got a chance to live.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I see conversation about ships from different eras, and I wonder how that would even work out. The Enterprise-E would completely out-class the Enterprise-D, nevermind trying to compare it to the OG Enterprise.

Points?

I mean, at the end of the day its a game, not a simulation. In the same way that a single space marine on tabletop can't take on 500 points of *insert non-power armored enemy here* on its own as portrayed in the fluff, the fact that fluffwise the Enterprise E would dominate any of its predecessors in an extremely one-sided manner is similarly irrelevant.

 lurch wrote:
I wonder just how much this will be like armada rules wise as it's on one of my least favorite space rule sets

One of the same lead designers, so...


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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
~150 usd seems likely to indicate the price points will be more expensive than Armada

The game never got a chance to live.

In a post inflationary environment, I think this is the new normal, unfortunately. Its crazy, because GW is increasingly looking affordable by comparison, but Shatterpoint was around the same price point and has apparently done well.

Hmm, I watched the video linked above for the game play. There are a ton of moving parts (stat/ability-wise), I think how complex this game is will be off-putting.

The good thing is it looks like it's more than just line both sides up and blow each out of the water - a lot of non-combat mission opportunities (in fact in the demo game showed that the first person to open fire *lost* victory points. And not an insignificant amount).

I think each era having it's own internal balance for power level but maintaining balance with the rest of the game shouldn't be an issue.

It might break SOME immersion, but anyone who has played STO over the years will have a lot of experience with this

chaos0xomega wrote:
I mean, at the end of the day its a game, not a simulation. In the same way that a single space marine on tabletop can't take on 500 points of *insert non-power armored enemy here* on its own as portrayed in the fluff, the fact that fluffwise the Enterprise E would dominate any of its predecessors in an extremely one-sided manner is similarly irrelevant.

I don't think that's really comparable. A single marine can only take on 500 points of non-marines in marine-focused fluff, in a setting where every faction is an unstoppable badass in their own fluff. In neutral stories ~500 points of marines is a fair fight for ~500 points of non-marines and in any other faction's fluff one of their soldiers is equal to 500 points of marines.

The same is not true in Star Trek, where technology is rapidly advancing and everyone's stuff from older eras is cannon fodder at best against modern ships. It's not a question of who is the protagonist of a given story, it's that the entire setting has moved on and cross-era fights are the equivalent of taking an 18th century ship of the line against an Iowa class battleship.