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 Shakalooloo wrote:
But it almost has an internal consistency. Look, I just get needlessly triggered whenever someone write 'Adeptus Sororitas', it's a me problem.

Well, if they're calling them the Adeptus, they've beansed it because it's Adepta. It's on the Codex cover and everything.

 Gert wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
But it almost has an internal consistency. Look, I just get needlessly triggered whenever someone write 'Adeptus Sororitas', it's a me problem.

Well, if they're calling them the Adeptus, they've beansed it because it's Adepta. It's on the Codex cover and everything.

Exactly! And GW themselves have gotten it wrong in official products before!

 vipoid wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
From the Dark Eldar perspective, I'd say that the deeper into the edition they go without a new book, the better the odds feel that you might get a chonky release this time.

Might be the copium talking, but until the book drops, there's a chance...

Calling it now - the "chonky release" will be:
- A new Lelith model (she's fat now).
- A new Drazhar model with an even bigger rock to stand on.

Oh and the Beastmaster, all three Beasts and all four Court of the Archon units have been deleted from the codex to streamline the army.

Listen, I know you were only joking, but I'm truly afraid it will happen like that. My poor 3rd edition warp beasts barely hung on, and then I bought a Clawed Fiend. They are unusable now,at least until I can find a bird proxy, but I'd like to keep the unit as playable.

If anything, I suspect the restructuring of the Court and the Beastmaster (and friends) unit is so they can be dealt with as a single box each at some point.

I think I'd rather they split the Beastmaster unit into three - one for each beast - and maybe didn't have the Beastmaster on a skyboard for each of them, but the combined unit is better than losing it.

We have plastic ur-ghuls that can be recut, so maybe there'll be a full squad as a command box, with a nice, new Archon-with-Options to lead 'em.

I suspect the use of the o-word there would make that non-viable - there are some things GW seems almost allergic to these days.

 Dysartes wrote:
If anything, I suspect the restructuring of the Court and the Beastmaster (and friends) unit is so they can be dealt with as a single box each at some point.

I think I'd rather they split the Beastmaster unit into three - one for each beast - and maybe didn't have the Beastmaster on a skyboard for each of them, but the combined unit is better than losing it.

yeah if they're making a new Beastmaster, they'd just put the beasts in its box. Hand of the Archon is a little trickier, but they can fit some new and old stuff in a box together

 cuda1179 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
From the Dark Eldar perspective, I'd say that the deeper into the edition they go without a new book, the better the odds feel that you might get a chonky release this time.

Might be the copium talking, but until the book drops, there's a chance...

Calling it now - the "chonky release" will be:
- A new Lelith model (she's fat now).
- A new Drazhar model with an even bigger rock to stand on.

Oh and the Beastmaster, all three Beasts and all four Court of the Archon units have been deleted from the codex to streamline the army.

Listen, I know you were only joking, but I'm truly afraid it will happen like that. My poor 3rd edition warp beasts barely hung on, and then I bought a Clawed Fiend. They are unusable now,at least until I can find a bird proxy, but I'd like to keep the unit as playable.

What on earth makes you think I was joking?

Incidentally, I look forward to GW doing absolutely nothing with the kill-team Mandrakes, despite DE crying out for new HQs.

 Shakalooloo wrote:


Exactly! And GW themselves have gotten it wrong in official products before!

Pretty sure it was Adeptus several years ago, maybe only in the German localization.

Edit: Found it

 BertBert wrote:
Pretty sure it was Adeptus several years ago, maybe only in the German localization.

Edit: Found it

Aha! Maybe that's where the confusion originated! Thank you!

Pretty sure they were also called Adeptus Sororitas in the original 2nd Edition Codex Army Lists book in the starter set.

EDIT: Nevermind, they were just Adeptus Ministorum Sororitas Squads.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
We have plastic ur-ghuls that can be recut, so maybe there'll be a full squad as a command box, with a nice, new Archon-with-Options to lead 'em.

Archon with OPTIONS? In GW eyes that's blasphemy. Seriously though, I would love it. The models we currently have were specifically designed for inter-kit weapons swaps, but that got kicked in the nards by NMNR. I feel every generic HQ guy should have AT LEAST 2-3 pistol options and 2-3 melee options as standard. I hate to say it, but I LONG for the options of the 3rd edition codex (even the first printing and not the expanded reprint one).

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
We have plastic ur-ghuls that can be recut, so maybe there'll be a full squad as a command box, with a nice, new Archon-with-Options to lead 'em.

Archon with OPTIONS? In GW eyes that's blasphemy. Seriously though, I would love it. The models we currently have were specifically designed for inter-kit weapons swaps, but that got kicked in the nards by NMNR. I feel every generic HQ guy should have AT LEAST 2-3 pistol options and 2-3 melee options as standard. I hate to say it, but I LONG for the options of the 3rd edition codex (even the first printing and not the expanded reprint one).

It might not be the full armory access of the past, but GW still does occasionally make HQs with options. Some recent SM captains, and the Eldar Autarch come to mind.

Not perfect, but modern HQ with more then one option have been made in the time of NMNR.

 vipoid wrote:

Incidentally, I look forward to GW doing absolutely nothing with the kill-team Mandrakes, despite DE crying out for new HQs.

Wondering when they're going to even be released. Missed the 15 minutes or so that the kill team box was available to buy...

Crispy78 wrote:

Wondering when they're going to even be released. Missed the 15 minutes or so that the kill team box was available to buy...

Noting the Imperial Agents Killteam box got rebranded as a standard 40k one, I can see that happening when the DE Codex releases if it doesn't come out as an individual KT before then.

Crispy78 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Incidentally, I look forward to GW doing absolutely nothing with the kill-team Mandrakes, despite DE crying out for new HQs.

Wondering when they're going to even be released. Missed the 15 minutes or so that the kill team box was available to buy...

Same. They're not even listed on GW's fiasco of a website.

 BertBert wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:


Exactly! And GW themselves have gotten it wrong in official products before!

Pretty sure it was Adeptus several years ago, maybe only in the German localization.

Edit: Found it

It was always Adeptus Sororitas in German until they got their codex a few years ago - and I still call them so. We took Adeptus just as a common noun for an Imperial faction regardless of the members.

It was Sisters of Battle in English back then, but Schwestern der Schlacht just sounds silly in German, even in 40k.

My main issue with DE as a release, is that presumably they'd want to re-do the battleline units, but I'm not sure any of them really need it.

I can see Court of the Archon as a fixed box and Beastmaster+some stuff.

I'm not quite sure where you go from there though.
Dedicated Sniper-Wracks?
Corrupted Wraithguard from the Path of Dark Eldar books?
Elder Haemonculus riding some sort of pain engine. Tower of flesh?
Mandrake Character.
"Mega-Scourge/Incubi with jetpacks?"
Plastic Tantalus?
Some sort of indirect weapon even if they are a blight on the game? Maybe some unit that takes in pain across the battlefield and can dump it elsewhere (yes I know its called a Cronos).

Need some proper Grotesques. Gloopy, 'orrible ones with lots of gross bits, to put the recent Skaven stuff to shame, ideally. While at it, they can re-do the Wracks to give them some ears (their masks have gaps for them, but their heads are just blank!) and put ten in a box.

And oh yeah, the obvious centrepiece model of Asdrubael Vect on his Dais of Destruction.

Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?

He has to come in corrupted form of an Avatar of Khaine as its only natural that such divine, vile soul and ego has the body to fit person of such status.

Can I safely assume the Imperialis Guardions will not be getting a plastic Thunderbolt this year, or ever, and live out my days as best I can?

 Sotahullu wrote:
Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?

He has to come in corrupted form of an Avatar of Khaine as its only natural that such divine, vile soul and ego has the body to fit person of such status.

The Supreme Overlord is no god, merely the first among equals, proof that one does not need to be trueborn to get far in life. He's declared himself a living Dark Muse, but they're not deities so much as aspirational figures for dark eldar to emulate.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?

He has to come in corrupted form of an Avatar of Khaine as its only natural that such divine, vile soul and ego has the body to fit person of such status.

The Supreme Overlord is no god, merely the first among equals, proof that one does not need to be trueborn to get far in life. He's declared himself a living Dark Muse, but they're not deities so much as aspirational figures for dark eldar to emulate.

This, vect is the epitome of a good off screen character. He doesn't get his hands dirty generally, he isn't some avengers style super bad guy. He's just the big boss in charge of the gang.

That said, some more characters would be good, but a big vehicle/model that isn't captain pimplord himself would be better.

I'm not even sure the Dark Eldar need that much in terms of new stuff - some different or named characters, possibly one on a jetbike or skyboard. What they really need is the existing stuff fleshing out again. The current index and the previous codex before it just made them bloody boring. They need tonnes of gadgets, evil-sounding weapons and cunning annoying shenanigans - and they just lost all of that. Fer Christ's sake, the wyches don't even get special weapons any more. The haemonculus has a single bloody load-out. There's just nothing in there to get excited about.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?

He has to come in corrupted form of an Avatar of Khaine as its only natural that such divine, vile soul and ego has the body to fit person of such status.

The Supreme Overlord is no god, merely the first among equals, proof that one does not need to be trueborn to get far in life. He's declared himself a living Dark Muse, but they're not deities so much as aspirational figures for dark eldar to emulate.

Vect, being inspirational figure? Being example for "common" folk that even they can reach some vague position of power? First among equals? These sound ramblings of the slaves, the serfs, the weaklings, the victims and the cowards who don't even dare to say anything bad about the Supreme Overlord.

Vect only cares about absolute power, absolute control and entertainment. If person does not submit to these clauses there is no use for such person. Tyrant and megalomaniac in the extreme that more Drukhari has died out of "not being funny/useful" then any would be assasin.


Besides, being "god"or Dark Muse is just more power, more control and more entertainment. To actually being close to one even more (so not "god" as in "god" but rather "god-'cause-I-say-so").

 Sotahullu wrote:
Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?

My thinking was that if the release vect in 10th, the Dias should become a Tantalus, for two reasons:

The current Court of the Archon is one of each- a Sslyth, Lhamaean, Ur-Ghul and Medusa. It can attach to a Kabalite unit led by an Archon- 15 models in total. That's the exact carrying capacity of the Tantalus.

The second reason is that they would have to create a basic Tantalus and a bling up sprue, effectively adding two kits to the plastic range rather than one.

Crispy78 wrote:
I'm not even sure the Dark Eldar need that much in terms of new stuff - some different or named characters, possibly one on a jetbike or skyboard. What they really need is the existing stuff fleshing out again. The current index and the previous codex before it just made them bloody boring. They need tonnes of gadgets, evil-sounding weapons and cunning annoying shenanigans - and they just lost all of that. Fer Christ's sake, the wyches don't even get special weapons any more. The haemonculus has a single bloody load-out. There's just nothing in there to get excited about.

So no and yes.

I say a big no to the army not needing new stuff. It needs all of the stuff you mentioned and more. Let's see what we could/should have:

Named:

Vect- discussed above.
Malys- Now Yvraine may have messed up Malys, who would have a similar look. Personally, I think Commorragh is big enough for two classy fem-bosses.
Sliscus- I always liked him, and I think that he's important for his connections to Corsairs, and GW should lean into that.
Sathonyx- Not as necessary as some of the others, but I still like him- he'd also be another named Wych to blance out named Archons
Kheradruahk- I have wanted this character to be a model for as long as the range has existed, because he's been there in the lore since the beginning.
*Named Scourge* TBA- So if they give us Kheradruahk, we would then have named characters for 2/3 mercenary groups. Leaving it at 2/3 would be a mistake.

Generic:

New Archon- The old model is weak. M/F build with plenty of options.
Dracon- Lieutenant/ Palatine equivalent. This is really important to reflect power structures in armies that have some mix of Kabal/Cult/Coven.
Succubus- this model is good, and if they keep it, I'm fine with that, though Wych weapon options would be nice.
Hekatrix- Like the Dracon for Cults
Haemonculus- Don't NEED a new model, but again, extra options are needed, and M/F builds would be cool.
Haemonculus Apprentice- like the Dracon for Covens

Bike with options for Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus- preferrably M/F for each. Note lieutenant level characters aren't special enough to have a bike.
Skyboard- as above.

Trueborn- This could be Kabalites with better stats or load out, or whole new models. The Archon's Hand KT was a missed opportunity- they should have been Trueborn.
Blood Brides- Same, but Wych Weapons must return to make this unit (and basic Wyches) work.
Haemoxcytes- Same, but also step it up to a box of 10 for both this unit and basic Wracks

Court- this will be a "one of each" box if it comes in 10th. It shouldn't be though- the composition of a court reveals insights about an Archons history and personality.
Beasts- As above, if released in 10th, it'll be the Master, 1 Fiend, 2 Khymerae and 3 RW Flocks. Again, it shouldn't be; the composition of a master's pack is his/her identity.
Grotesques- they are coming... Just give'm options.

And all of that is without the most important thing: the unforeseen. See, GW wants to build all kinds of new stuff, but they've boxed themselves into a corner by treating this range the way they have for fifteen years. All of the stuff in the list above is a balance that's been owing for four or five editions now, and it's hard for GW to add anything new to this army because they owe us so much that's been missing for so long. Most of us would rather have this list than ANYTHING new. And being GW, they won't listen... They'll give us new stuff that no one asked for or wanted.

For example, I *like* the new berserker Krootox riders and the lone operative mounted dude. They're great models. But I would have been much, much happier with classic Knarloc Riders in plastic and a tripple build Greater Knarloc- One with a heavy weapon platform, one that is a munt for a unit and one that is cargo/utility, because I knew them, I loved them and they never should have taken them away from us in the first place.

As for the yes- the parts where I agreed, yes virtually every unit in this game needs options again; originally I thought I'd build a list of the units that need options the most, but a lot of that make it into the "units this army needs" section.

Dudeface wrote:
That said, some more characters would be good, but a big vehicle/model that isn't captain pimplord himself would be better.

Depending how the Dias were to be depicted these days, there's nothing stopping it having a generic alt-build - not sure if we'd be thinking super-heavy in scale here, mind you.

I'm not even a DE player, and there are a few kits I'd want to see:
- Court of the Archon (4 models)
- Beastmaster + beasts (3 sets, one per beast type. Clawed Fiend speed drops to whatever its old value was, with that BM on foot, at least)
- Actual Trueborn kit (unless the Hand of the Archon gets repurposed into that - if it doesn't, a Hand of the Archon unit entry that allows you to use the KT bits)
- Actual Bloodbride kit
- I'm not sure if one already exists, but an equivalent to the above two for the Haemonculi side of things
- Plastic Grotesques, if only for a bit of pose variety in the standard models
- Close combat Scourges, possibly with another wing type that can be interchanged with the existing kit (where I think we have bat wings & feathers?)
- The Mandrake-special-character-whose-name-escapes-me
- Lady Malys, given she keeps cropping up in background mentions
- A Winged Haemonculi, maybe?
- If he's currently still resin, then Urien Rakarth as well
- Vect on Dias (with generic alt-build)

That's without redoing any existing plastics, as they still look pretty good to me.

I honestly don't know what the veteran level units really add though. The game isn't in a state to support flexible loadouts, so the trueborn/brides/thingumy units would basically be just.... kabalites/wyches/wracks with an extra attack/wound maybe.

Dudeface wrote:
I honestly don't know what the veteran level units really add though. The game isn't in a state to support flexible loadouts, so the trueborn/brides/thingumy units would basically be just.... kabalites/wyches/wracks with an extra attack/wound maybe.

I promise you, the game is not going to explode if you give things weapons options.

 PenitentJake wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?

My thinking was that if the release vect in 10th, the Dias should become a Tantalus, for two reasons:

The current Court of the Archon is one of each- a Sslyth, Lhamaean, Ur-Ghul and Medusa. It can attach to a Kabalite unit led by an Archon- 15 models in total. That's the exact carrying capacity of the Tantalus.

The second reason is that they would have to create a basic Tantalus and a bling up sprue, effectively adding two kits to the plastic range rather than one.

Crispy78 wrote:
I'm not even sure the Dark Eldar need that much in terms of new stuff - some different or named characters, possibly one on a jetbike or skyboard. What they really need is the existing stuff fleshing out again. The current index and the previous codex before it just made them bloody boring. They need tonnes of gadgets, evil-sounding weapons and cunning annoying shenanigans - and they just lost all of that. Fer Christ's sake, the wyches don't even get special weapons any more. The haemonculus has a single bloody load-out. There's just nothing in there to get excited about.

So no and yes.

I say a big no to the army not needing new stuff. It needs all of the stuff you mentioned and more. Let's see what we could/should have:

Named:

Vect- discussed above.
Malys- Now Yvraine may have messed up Malys, who would have a similar look. Personally, I think Commorragh is big enough for two classy fem-bosses.
Sliscus- I always liked him, and I think that he's important for his connections to Corsairs, and GW should lean into that.
Sathonyx- Not as necessary as some of the others, but I still like him- he'd also be another named Wych to blance out named Archons
Kheradruahk- I have wanted this character to be a model for as long as the range has existed, because he's been there in the lore since the beginning.
*Named Scourge* TBA- So if they give us Kheradruahk, we would then have named characters for 2/3 mercenary groups. Leaving it at 2/3 would be a mistake.

Generic:

New Archon- The old model is weak. M/F build with plenty of options.
Dracon- Lieutenant/ Palatine equivalent. This is really important to reflect power structures in armies that have some mix of Kabal/Cult/Coven.
Succubus- this model is good, and if they keep it, I'm fine with that, though Wych weapon options would be nice.
Hekatrix- Like the Dracon for Cults
Haemonculus- Don't NEED a new model, but again, extra options are needed, and M/F builds would be cool.
Haemonculus Apprentice- like the Dracon for Covens

Bike with options for Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus- preferrably M/F for each. Note lieutenant level characters aren't special enough to have a bike.
Skyboard- as above.

Trueborn- This could be Kabalites with better stats or load out, or whole new models. The Archon's Hand KT was a missed opportunity- they should have been Trueborn.
Blood Brides- Same, but Wych Weapons must return to make this unit (and basic Wyches) work.
Haemoxcytes- Same, but also step it up to a box of 10 for both this unit and basic Wracks

Court- this will be a "one of each" box if it comes in 10th. It shouldn't be though- the composition of a court reveals insights about an Archons history and personality.
Beasts- As above, if released in 10th, it'll be the Master, 1 Fiend, 2 Khymerae and 3 RW Flocks. Again, it shouldn't be; the composition of a master's pack is his/her identity.
Grotesques- they are coming... Just give'm options.

And all of that is without the most important thing: the unforeseen. See, GW wants to build all kinds of new stuff, but they've boxed themselves into a corner by treating this range the way they have for fifteen years. All of the stuff in the list above is a balance that's been owing for four or five editions now, and it's hard for GW to add anything new to this army because they owe us so much that's been missing for so long. Most of us would rather have this list than ANYTHING new. And being GW, they won't listen... They'll give us new stuff that no one asked for or wanted.

For example, I *like* the new berserker Krootox riders and the lone operative mounted dude. They're great models. But I would have been much, much happier with classic Knarloc Riders in plastic and a tripple build Greater Knarloc- One with a heavy weapon platform, one that is a munt for a unit and one that is cargo/utility, because I knew them, I loved them and they never should have taken them away from us in the first place.

As for the yes- the parts where I agreed, yes virtually every unit in this game needs options again; originally I thought I'd build a list of the units that need options the most, but a lot of that make it into the "units this army needs" section.

Agreed with all of this.

Also, I know I've beat this drum before, but I add a (generic) Mandrake HQ to the list of things DE needs.

As it stands, all our HQs are focused on melee. This would be an excellent opportunity to mix things up with a character who can both perform at range (ideally with an upgraded Baleblast) and ideally also provide some support abilities in lieu of psychic powers.

Could even tie this into the army mechanic and have the Mandrake spend pain tokens to cast his 'spells'.

Beyond that, I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment above that I want DE to be fun again.