Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

SW have their wolf lords heraldry on the left shoulder and unit markings on their right. There is no "generic space wolf symbol" they are supposed to display on their armour.

Just like vanilla marines are not supposed to have the "space marines" icon on their shoulder.

 blood reaper wrote:
People claiming with 100% certain Daemons "never work together in the lore" display such staggering ignorance of the actual material (which is no surprise, since 90% of players do not read the books, codexes, or really anything beyond 1d4chan and reddit nonsense). The lore consistently references multi-god Chaos incursions, warbands, pacts, alliances, etc.. "The Great Game" - the perpetual conflict in which the Chaos Gods battle and fight, consistently sees the power ally against one another and scheme, plot, and battle *together*.

It is also incredibly tiring how many people have been trying to do-away with Daemons as an army since the Codex first came out (though pure Daemons armies have existed since at least 2nd edition).

The 2nd edition list was mono-god. The 1st edition Daemonic Legion list from Realm of Chaos could have damonic allies, but not from the opposing power.

Daemonic forces existed before the codex, yes, but were restricted to daemon worlds i.e. the Eye of Terror in the background (and yes, I read the books). Outside of it they could only enter the realspace via summoning or possession (one notable exception was the battle for Tallarn from Codex IG 2nd edition, where they came out of an old Eldar gate). Since the codex came out it seems they can pop out from the warp everywhere and it's not wrong that some people didn't particularly liked that idea - I wasn't fond of it either.

That did not changed, but as I know how it feels to loose rules for an army (Genestealer Cult) I think there should be at least a detachement to allow players with existing armies to continue playing it.

A pantheistic incursion does by no means require cooperation. Just a warp rift of sufficient size and stability that anyone who fancies a shot can bung their underlings through out.

Whilst I will always balk at Khorne/Slaanesh or Tzeentch/Nurgle alliances, there is still room for alliances of convenience. And so a given scrap where normally deadly rivals seem to be working together is “right, we’ll deal with these irksome mortals first, then get back to kicking seven bells out of each other”, so I can rationalise it.

What we need are new Daemon units. Not Daemon Engines. New Daemons. With some perhaps tied entirely to a Daemon Codex, representing elite Daemons only ever placed under the command of Greater or Exalted Greater Daemons when their parent God holds them in high esteem, or wants a particular job done right.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A pantheistic incursion does by no means require cooperation. Just a warp rift of sufficient size and stability that anyone who fancies a shot can bung their underlings through out.

Whilst I will always balk at Khorne/Slaanesh or Tzeentch/Nurgle alliances, there is still room for alliances of convenience. And so a given scrap where normally deadly rivals seem to be working together is “right, we’ll deal with these irksome mortals first, then get back to kicking seven bells out of each other”, so I can rationalise it.

What we need are new Daemon units. Not Daemon Engines. New Daemons. With some perhaps tied entirely to a Daemon Codex, representing elite Daemons only ever placed under the command of Greater or Exalted Greater Daemons when their parent God holds them in high esteem, or wants a particular job done right.

Something like the chaos harpies would be nice.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
AWhat we need are new Daemon units. Not Daemon Engines. New Daemons. With some perhaps tied entirely to a Daemon Codex, representing elite Daemons only ever placed under the command of Greater or Exalted Greater Daemons when their parent God holds them in high esteem, or wants a particular job done right.

Yeah, I'd love to see more daemons like the Daemon Brutes from HH show up. Some god-specific behemoths would be cool too.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Pet peeve that they keep using the black mane head as the chapter symbol when it's Ragnar's great company and the official symbol of the space Wolves is Leman Russ's heraldry of the wolf rampant that every great wolf adopts when they become chapter master...

I don't know why they don't just use the actual chapter symbol in all their imagery - here is grimnar presiding over a duel between a blood claws and grey hunter from Ragnars great company for some reason.

Even their army icons use the Ragnar head

You do realize that neither the dark angels or blood angels use theur actual chapter symbols either, yes? All those lovely plastic shoulder pads theyve been putting o ut on the upgrade sprues the past couple years are not technocally correct to the canon chapter symbols - the wings for both are presented as typical feathered wings on the shoulder pad upgrades, but the actual chaprer icons dont have those types of wings and instead each have their own distinct style.

...
Whether thats true or not, they are not remotely equivalent. The RT ERA geometric wolf head and the Ragnar head are the equivalent to your example. The same concept with different thematic execution.

My example would be GW using the ravenwing symbol for all their dark angel examples and their website/graphic iconography. Ragnar's company is but one amongst 12 and none of their symbols are the official symbol for the chapter.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A pantheistic incursion does by no means require cooperation. Just a warp rift of sufficient size and stability that anyone who fancies a shot can bung their underlings through out.

Whilst I will always balk at Khorne/Slaanesh or Tzeentch/Nurgle alliances, there is still room for alliances of convenience. And so a given scrap where normally deadly rivals seem to be working together is “right, we’ll deal with these irksome mortals first, then get back to kicking seven bells out of each other”, so I can rationalise it.

What we need are new Daemon units. Not Daemon Engines. New Daemons. With some perhaps tied entirely to a Daemon Codex, representing elite Daemons only ever placed under the command of Greater or Exalted Greater Daemons when their parent God holds them in high esteem, or wants a particular job done right.

Warp rifts tend to get opened by devoted cultists performing rituals, and they tend to be cults devoted to one particular Power, weakening the veil with actions evoking their patron's favoured emotions.

Multi-god alliances would be fine if they just brought back the Daemonic Animosity tables from back in 4th edition WFB. They don't play together well!

Dudeface wrote:

It was also guard > eldar > IK > EC (in theory).

Now it's eldar > guard > EC

I think the confusion has to do with people's interpretations of whether or not the launch box is considered a full release.

Because it's NOT now Eldar then Guard.

The guard Launch box was up for preorder last Saturday... But the full Guard release may not in fact come until after the Eldar; and I don't know if Eldar are getting a launch box, but if they do, their full release may not come until after EC.

EC's release IS a launch box, but perhaps Knights will come before their full release.

 Shakalooloo wrote:


Warp rifts tend to get opened by devoted cultists performing rituals, and they tend to be cults devoted to one particular Power, weakening the veil with actions evoking their patron's favoured emotions.

This may very well have been the case prior to 8th, but in current 40k, most warp riffs were torn open as part of the Cicatrix Maledictum- the single largest warp event since the birth of Slaanesh, and one which is STILL cutting the galaxy in half.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

Multi-god alliances would be fine if they just brought back the Daemonic Animosity tables from back in 4th edition WFB. They don't play together well!

I'm not sure if the source you cite is the one I'm thinking of, but I have in mind fluff that said it isn't that every power hates and refuses to work with every other power- it's that each power has ONE power they consider an antithetical enemy, and they are various shades of okay with the other two. I think this is what Doc meant when he said he doesn't see Khorne/Slaanesh or Nurgle/Tzeentch alliances...

Although on that note, I recall the enmity being between Khorne and Tzeentch (Since Khorne actively HATES psykers, viewing them as weak, and having editions of precedent of having no psykers of their own, as well as a list of psychic resistances) and Nurgle and Slaanesh (since disease isn't pretty and beauty often involves freezing the cycle of life at it's most aesthetically pleasing stage).

If that's what's indicated in the Daemonic Animosity table you mention, then heck yeah, I'm behind that all the way.

 PenitentJake wrote:

Although on that note, I recall the enmity being between Khorne and Tzeentch (Since Khorne actively HATES psykers, viewing them as weak, and having editions of precedent of having no psykers of their own, as well as a list of psychic resistances) and Nurgle and Slaanesh (since disease isn't pretty and beauty often involves freezing the cycle of life at it's most aesthetically pleasing stage).

The hate is between Khorne and Slaanesh and between Nurgle and Tzeentch.

Although Khorne also hates Tzeentch, but in terms of rules Khorne daemons did not have the animosity rules towards Tzeentch daemons. Khorne's rivalry with Tzeentch is more of a professional rivalry between the warrior and the wizard. Khorne hates Slaanesh though because Khorne views bloodshed as a serious matter, as the be all and end all of existence, whereas Slaanesh makes a mockery of fighting as it is just one among many pleasures ("Why so serious?").

Nurgle and Tzeentch are more diametrically opposed due to what they are and represent. Nurgle is about despair and acceptance of one's horrible situation, and then enduring and deriving meaning from that. Tzeentch is about the desire and will to change one's circumstances rather than accepting.

When Cadia was destroyed, the various daemon factions immediately turned on each other. Coordinated multi-god armies are possible, but they usually require an extraordinary objective to be induced to do so, or be led by an extremely powerful and charismatic warlord.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
When Cadia was destroyed, the various daemon factions immediately turned on each other. Coordinated multi-god armies are possible, but they usually require an extraordinary objective to be induced to do so, or be led by an extremely powerful and charismatic warlord.

I dont see the point of these kinds of reasoning.
It would be incredibly rare to see a primarch on the battlefield. Thunder wolf cav is so rare its not even admitted as something SW deploy in battle.
Eldrad is dead, crystalized and super super busy.
Heck, even seeing a minor army of daemons would be so rare its almost unheard of (and if you saw it GK would purge you right away).
Yet all of these thing are indeed a common sight in most armies.

We literally had Codex: 100 Dudes. Arguments from rarity are absurd.


The aim isn't really to provide a background reasoning though - rather it's to justify whatever change GW is making.

Thank you for reminding me that Codex: Legion of the Damned existed at one point, even if that wasn't the codex you were referring to.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Thank you for reminding me that Codex: Legion of the Damned existed at one point, even if that wasn't the codex you were referring to.

It wasn't

To be fair, they pulled back from that level of insanity. Whole codexes for one unit, or a specific company of one sub-faction of one army. Or supplement books that were one page of rules.

It was a dark time and I’m glad we’re past it. Not saying GW’s perfect, but that was a low point we’ve come back up from. at leaser a little bit.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Thank you for reminding me that Codex: Legion of the Damned existed at one point, even if that wasn't the codex you were referring to.

Wait, could we be gwtting a new Codex Legion of the Damned instead of salamanders?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Thank you for reminding me that Codex: Legion of the Damned existed at one point, even if that wasn't the codex you were referring to.

Wait, could we be gwtting a new Codex Legion of the Damned instead of salamanders?

While I’d love to see some LotD in plastic, if it’s a codex and not just a digital download/WD entry I’ll be torqued.

The thought did cross my mind at that picture. There are 2 major sources of fire on SM: LotD and Sallies.

 Nevelon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Thank you for reminding me that Codex: Legion of the Damned existed at one point, even if that wasn't the codex you were referring to.

Wait, could we be gwtting a new Codex Legion of the Damned instead of salamanders?

While I’d love to see some LotD in plastic, if it’s a codex and not just a digital download/WD entry I’ll be torqued.

The thought did cross my mind at that picture. There are 2 major sources of fire on SM: LotD and Sallies.

But aside from plot-breaking Warp shenanigans (which, admittedly, are always a possibility) there wouldn't be any Gravis-armored Damned Legionnaires, would there?

...there shouldnt be, unless gw writes up a retcon or goes into some narrative shenanigans to justify it

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Thank you for reminding me that Codex: Legion of the Damned existed at one point, even if that wasn't the codex you were referring to.

Wait, could we be gwtting a new Codex Legion of the Damned instead of salamanders?

While I’d love to see some LotD in plastic, if it’s a codex and not just a digital download/WD entry I’ll be torqued.

The thought did cross my mind at that picture. There are 2 major sources of fire on SM: LotD and Sallies.

But aside from plot-breaking Warp shenanigans (which, admittedly, are always a possibility) there wouldn't be any Gravis-armored Damned Legionnaires, would there?

It would take minimal work to fluff up primaris LotD, even with the assorted theory's about what they are.. Indominus reinforcements lost to the warp, or they manifest from the warp in a more modern vision. We’ve seem far worse lore bending to shoehorn new models.

But I’d expect the first we see LotD to be in tacticus armor, lost interecessors. Not gravis. I do however, think a special unit/named character in flamestorm aggressor armor for the Salamanders is far more likely.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Thank you for reminding me that Codex: Legion of the Damned existed at one point, even if that wasn't the codex you were referring to.

Wait, could we be gwtting a new Codex Legion of the Damned instead of salamanders?

I very much doubt it, the Gravis marine in the art has two Salamander chapter symbols on his cowl

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Thank you for reminding me that Codex: Legion of the Damned existed at one point, even if that wasn't the codex you were referring to.

Wait, could we be gwtting a new Codex Legion of the Damned instead of salamanders?

While I’d love to see some LotD in plastic, if it’s a codex and not just a digital download/WD entry I’ll be torqued.

The thought did cross my mind at that picture. There are 2 major sources of fire on SM: LotD and Sallies.

But aside from plot-breaking Warp shenanigans (which, admittedly, are always a possibility) there wouldn't be any Gravis-armored Damned Legionnaires, would there?

By that logic, the Sanguinor shouldn't now be in silly-looking Primaris armour, but there you go..

I am not exactly sold that it will be salamanders supplement. Auspex made a good point that it very likely could be a SM codex 2.0 as GW doing a second SM codex before votan or DE would not be shocking. I hope that is not the case but I would temper expectations

Sunday Preview – It’s beginning to look a lot like Rhana Dandra

Eldar incoming!

Bye bye units of three War Walkers!

Including Lhykhis, the Warp Spider Phoenix Lord I never knew I wanted.




Were the Phoenix Lords that are coming out for preorder next week previewed? I don't pay much attention to Eldar but I don't remember seeing them before.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Bye bye units of three War Walkers!

Aren't they in units of 1 atm?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

El Torro wrote:
Including Lhykhis, the Warp Spider Phoenix Lord I never knew I wanted.

Spoiler:

Were the Phoenix Lords that are coming out for preorder next week previewed? I don't pay much attention to Eldar but I don't remember seeing them before.

Yes, same preview as krieg.

This rebox of the Aeldari Wave Serpent brings together everything you need to build either a Falcon Grav Tank or Wave Serpent, and comes with an Aeldari transfer sheet with 378 transfers.*

That's pretty cool that it's one box now.

*This product is delayed in Australia, New Zealand and Japan.

I wonder why this is happening though.

El Torro wrote:
Including Lhykhis, the Warp Spider Phoenix Lord I never knew I wanted.

Spoiler:

Were the Phoenix Lords that are coming out for preorder next week previewed? I don't pay much attention to Eldar but I don't remember seeing them before.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/gw3wcpc7/world-championships-preview-aeldari-phoenix-lords-step-from-the-webway/

The FD was leaked early, but the rest are from here

Warwalkers in pairs!