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 Overread wrote:
- but when you consider how well Old Wrold is doing now and that AoS has nothing (model wise) within it that couldn't have been done with Old World by advancing its storyline - then yeah - not the best choice.

*Stares in Kharadron Overlords and Idoneth Deepkin*

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
- but when you consider how well Old Wrold is doing now and that AoS has nothing (model wise) within it that couldn't have been done with Old World by advancing its storyline - then yeah - not the best choice.

*Stares in Kharadron Overlords and Idoneth Deepkin*

What's interesting to me is how they did start out going far outside the WFB paradigm - these where two of the earliest armies produced. And yet as they've delivered more and more armies, they seem to have gotten really conservative until you get to lizardmen and skaven that had no changes at all. The Cities of Sigmar look like an empire army.

Almost like the WFB aesthetic was already the strength of the IP and they weren't getting traction trying to leave it.


Which I find pretty disingenuous - if WFB was so bad it needed killing, why is AoS slaved to it? I would have respected the game more if it didn't look like it was riding the coat tails of the self confessed failed game and instead became a completely separate and original game.

They seemed to be going that way with armies like those two, but very quickly devolved back into 'WFB with extra steps'.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
- but when you consider how well Old Wrold is doing now and that AoS has nothing (model wise) within it that couldn't have been done with Old World by advancing its storyline - then yeah - not the best choice.

*Stares in Kharadron Overlords and Idoneth Deepkin*

The Kharadron's are basically just Dwarves using machinery from the height of their Empire in the Old World - granted GW uses machinery instead of blimps because of practicalities of models at that scale; but still if you look at Man O War they had huge airships in that. You just have to have a group of dwarves form up around Malakai Makaisson in rebelling against the rules of the Guild of Engineers. Honestly dead easy to build that into lore if the world just went through and survived an "End Times" type disaster.

Idoneth are also super easy to add because you don't have to add any new land or peoples; they are undersea elves. Granted you might have to play with the lore some, but there's ample room to add them to the setting. Again if you've just had a near end of the world event with magic on the run you can much more easily have them perhaps surface from the depths with some ancient lore on how they fled there. Perhaps elves who wanted ot keep their magic instead of having it all bound in the Vortex and they found a way to hide themselves and their magic under the sea.


Most of the other factions easily fit in as extensions of current armies or adaptations of them.
Stormcast are probably the actual hardest to build into the setting; but when you consider that Sigmar is a living God in the setting and how the Gods woke up during the End Times much more so then you can again justify that Sigmar starts to take a more active role and creates his blessed warriors etc....

Sure a few armies like Bretonnia might have to beef up their magical support to deal with a slightly more high-magic world than it already was; but its all doable.

 Overread wrote:
Idoneth are also super easy to add because you don't have to add any new land or peoples; they are undersea elves. Granted you might have to play with the lore some, but there's ample room to add them to the setting. Again if you've just had a near end of the world event with magic on the run you can much more easily have them perhaps surface from the depths with some ancient lore on how they fled there.

Parts of Ulthuan (particularly Tironic and Naggorythe) sunk during one of the big historical events, so a "they were there all along" could have been pulled out of...... somewhere

There have been mentions of “sea elves” in the lore going back forever. One of the classic Blood Bowl star players is one, even.
As for why they don’t show up much?
They’ve been at war with the Fishmen for generations but now the upheavals caused by the End Times have messed with the territories of both nations…
Or the magical turmoil of the End Times messes with the warding stones (undersea components of the Waystone network that draws magic to Ulthuan) they were guarding/maintaining as part of their duties and the stones started drawing in the souls of many of the maintenance crews…

40k was supposedly being end times'd in 7th, which is what gathering storm was leading up to.

It's easy if you squint a little to imagine primaris marines starting it all again as their own faction, ynnari consolidating the eldar together rather than being forced to refresh 2 ranges and deal with harlequins being essentially a failed 3rd.

Cadia largely representing the guard models at the time, then being destroyed, gave them a chance to scrap guard if they wished. Admech had released as 2 separate smaller AoS armies initially, sisters barely existed anyway.

Narratively, all those forces were combined under a "last of mankind" type deal.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
There have been mentions of “sea elves” in the lore going back forever.

Sea Elf used to be what the elves from Ulthuan's outer kingdoms were called, while the elves from the inner kingdoms were High Elves.

 Overread wrote:

So I don't think GW will "End Times" 40K. Sure we might get more subfactions merged into larger factions; we might lose some models; we might gain others but honestly you can't really argue declutter at the same time GW is creating 4 Chaos God themed armies from 1 Chaos Demons codex. That's an increase of 3 more full armies in the game.

Not "End Times" as in ending the setting, but at least for a time there was a clear intent to moving 40k closer to AoS in tone, out of self-satirical grimdark and more into "noblebright high adventure", out of "last stand" and into "liberating fallen realms". Offhandedly scuttling half the galaxy just so Primaris could retake it one day later is the chief, hamfisted example of it.

Santtu wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
There have been mentions of “sea elves” in the lore going back forever.

Sea Elf used to be what the elves from Ulthuan's outer kingdoms were called, while the elves from the inner kingdoms were High Elves.

So make the “outer” kingdoms a bit more outer than previously assumed. Like all the way out to the continental shelf.

 Overread wrote:

Stormcast are probably the actual hardest to build into the setting; but when you consider that Sigmar is a living God in the setting and how the Gods woke up during the End Times much more so then you can again justify that Sigmar starts to take a more active role and creates his blessed warriors etc....

Just make them Law/Order Warriors devoted to Solkan and his ilk to oppose the Chaos gods. One of things I dislike about AoS is how Sigmar has been changed from a Conan/Jesus hybrid to being some sort of Odin/Zeus allfather type.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
- but when you consider how well Old Wrold is doing now and that AoS has nothing (model wise) within it that couldn't have been done with Old World by advancing its storyline - then yeah - not the best choice.

*Stares in Kharadron Overlords and Idoneth Deepkin*

Haven't former staffers said that the Kharadron were in development prior to the decision to switch from WFB to AoS?

The Idoneth don't seem too hard to drop in to WFB honestly.

 The Phazer wrote:


The Idoneth don't seem too hard to drop in to WFB honestly.

They could have also done a harlequin type thing where they could be taken by either High or Dark Elves as some sort of allies (depending on how the edition itself handles allies / formations / detachments).

 The Phazer wrote:


Haven't former staffers said that the Kharadron were in development prior to the decision to switch from WFB to AoS?

Jervis Johnson also claimed that AoS was always intended to have points. Honest guv. So...

Development covers a wide range of statuses.

Someone doing initial sketches exploring the possible design language is Development.

Initial sketches being refined into the right scale, to get an understanding of how large given kits might need to be is Development.

All the way to 3d Sculpts being done and signed off, but the moulds not being commissioned just yet is Development.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Stormcast are probably the actual hardest to build into the setting; but when you consider that Sigmar is a living God in the setting and how the Gods woke up during the End Times much more so then you can again justify that Sigmar starts to take a more active role and creates his blessed warriors etc....

Just make them Law/Order Warriors devoted to Solkan and his ilk to oppose the Chaos gods. One of things I dislike about AoS is how Sigmar has been changed from a Conan/Jesus hybrid to being some sort of Odin/Zeus allfather type.

The even easier solution is to make them empowered golems/statues using the same Faith/Magic combination that built the golden wall in Blood of Sigmar and the End Times. Solkanites were considered heretics and hunted down in the Old World to the point they were almost extinct and operated in small cells at best.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Solkanites were considered heretics and hunted down in the Old World to the point they were almost extinct and operated in small cells at best.

The same applies to Chaos worshippers in the Empire! If Solkanites had the same access to the eye of their gods, they'd be able to run around in massive suits of armour and stab people too!

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Solkanites were considered heretics and hunted down in the Old World to the point they were almost extinct and operated in small cells at best.

The same applies to Chaos worshippers in the Empire! If Solkanites had the same access to the eye of their gods, they'd be able to run around in massive suits of armour and stab people too!

Solkanites don't have an entire alternate reality to hide in like Chaos.

I'd be very surprised if they went for yet another hard reset in 40k. I don't really get any sense that they feel like they need to based on sales figures or even complaints about the rules. I mean I've argued in the past that 10th is more "9.5 written up in a different language" as compared with the much more dramatic breaks of 2nd->3rd and 7th->8th. This is - imo - why some of the supposed objectives of 10th were only partially met. They weren't actually starting from scratch.

I mean people said 9th was too lethal and too complex. And tbh it probably was. Although, for all of its alleged sins, 9th was fantastic for GW's sales figures. Which probably explains why they didn't scrap everything and start over.

I'm not sure what you'd say of 10th. "Its not complex enough" perhaps? Not really.

I think GW tends to look at the game about 18 months in and tries to resolve some of the perceived issues of that edition. I'm not entirely sure what they would be in 10th. I doubt they'll go back to pointing every piece of wargear. But I wonder if there will be a greater scope for personalising characters - with a broader enhancements pool and/or customizable psychic powers/abilities. Certainly the biggest criticism I have (and I think quite a few have) is that your dudes aren't really your dudes if you can't tweak them. Does the Eldar codex - perhaps a good canary - give us some of that? No not really. It does however give us a lot of detachments which effect which units are battleline. I think that could become more common - and perhaps a feature of 11th.

I think they could potentially mess about with missions and scoring - but I'm not sure where you'd go from here. I doubt they'd want to go back to the bad old days. So maybe its just a few tweaks to be different. I guess you could go for a completely new game mode beyond holding circles on the ground - but I feel there's a danger you start messing with a system that works.

Finally, GW in the middle of the 2010s was facing crisis. Fantasy was going nowhere, and even 40k sales were increasingly stale. This produced the move to AoS - and probably the idea that 40k needed a similar reset. I think on ICv2 sales charts X-Wing overtook 40k as the biggest selling game throughout 2016. But AoS 1.0 was a disaster, while 8th proved a license to print money.

Rank and flank 40k, to take the AoS reboot anology full circle

 Fayric wrote:
Rank and flank 40k, to take the AoS reboot anology full circle

Oh, I'd like to run my Imperial Knights like Bretonnians. Thank of the fun charges we could have!

40k news and rumours here, everything else, elsewhere please.

For those looking for high-quality sprue images for the Krieg Command & Heavy Weapon squad, check out my review: https://taleofpainters.com/2025/02/review-krieg-command-squad-heavy-weapon-squad/

Also has a link to the Death Korps army set, which has sprue images for all the other models

This is an EC rumour dump doing the rounds, it was collated on B&C and has the backing of the discord user who leaked the GSC info:



It's a... concerning read.

didn't they confirm in the announcements stream that predators and/or vindicators were making it into the book?

The units missing seem to be a list of support units not in this picture. I’m sceptical, why have maulerfiends but not the alternate build?

Yeah, also seems like a bizarrely incomplete list in general. No stats for Noise Marines and nothing about either of the new Lords. Seems very much like a second hand report of what someone else remembered.

Sadly, the Daemon rumours sound like the kind of thing GW would do.

GW has done that more than once though - eg Daughters of Khaine don't get Black Riders that are the other version of the Warlock

Soulblight didn't get the ghost riders that were the other part of Black Riders (in fairness GW are replacing them soon with new dedicated black rider kits)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ovvnjzam/sunday-preview-the-first-high-elves-sail-from-ulthuan/

40K Terrain MTO from 15th to 23rd. Bastion, Bunker, wall of martyrs. I thought we had at least the Bastion not too long ago in a different MTO?

They did an MTO for that in late 2023 or early 2024. Didnt receive my stuff from that until like may or june

Disappointed to see these kits again and not the aquila strongpoint, firestorm redoubt, plasma obliterator, vengeance weapon batteries, and fortress of redemption.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I thought we had at least the Bastion not too long ago in a different MTO?

It's not long ago because it took them 6 month for shipping. It's a cool versatile terrain piece, they should have keep it in the store. The Wall of Decaydians not so much.