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Heldrake and Soul Grinder too!


Not to mention the array of FW deamon engines that they could have moved to plastic. Blood Slaughterer, Decimator, Blight Drone, etc.

Oh Venomcrawler, my beloved.

I feel like that would've fit better in with the EC than a maulerfiend. Sadly, it's stuck in a bundle with Obliterators. Which, to be fair, isn't something super Emperors Childreny (even though one does appear in the most recent EC book...)

I'd argue Obliterators fit perfectly given they are the literal embodiment of an obsession with excess (excessive guns)

Flash Gitz confirmed Slaaneshii worshipers due to excessive dakka?

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I remain mildly disappointed in the lack of Daemon Engines.

I know Vashtorr, and the Negavolt Cultists of BSF hint at Dark Mechanicum coming at some point.

But come on Nurgle is on two (lawnmowers and flying thing), and everyone else is on Nowt in terms of God Aligned. And even for Chaos Undecided, there’s just the Defiler (resculpt pls) and the dual kit,

Nurgle has three, and how did you forget the Lord of Skulls?

Because I’m old and my memory is failing? I dunno!

You can't be old, you're my age... and possibly BorderCountesses age and she remembered.

We need another excuse.

You old chaps all seem to have forgotten the venomcrawler, too.

Get off my lawn, whippersnapper!

 GaroRobe wrote:
Sadly, it's stuck in a bundle with Obliterators. Which, to be fair, isn't something super Emperors Childreny (even though one does appear in the most recent EC book...)

Mutated dudes whose flesh is bursting with phallic weaponry isn't EC-y?

For once, dakka is proving to actually be the least negative space online about all this.

I've had/have world eaters, I've had 2 years of vindicator puns made, I sort of get any upset.

That said, GW have refine what they want EC to be in 40k, they've orchestrated a book to fit that image. A lot of people pset are who wanted to play in a way that is now *not* what emperors children are (gunlines and/or CSM units).

However the missing units and their pre-existing army has been a CSM army for the last few decades, it still works perfectly fine as a CSM in pink/purple. All is not lost, you can also house rule stuff in outside of events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daemons article is up, it's very ambiguous imo:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

This codex seems pretty awful tbh, restricting deamons to one detachment with such a small unit selection is just a dumb decision.

Aye, I realy wish they'd stop dancing around the question and just say whether there'll be a Daemons 'dex or not - and whether that means the units that don't get printed in a god-aligned Legion 'dex are off to Legends.

 Dysartes wrote:
Aye, I realy wish they'd stop dancing around the question and just say whether there'll be a Daemons 'dex or not - and whether that means the units that don't get printed in a god-aligned Legion 'dex are off to Legends.

I thought it was already stated that Daemons weren't getting a dex. The question has been whether their Index will remain legal going forward.

It FEELS like this is saying cross demon armies are out. The leaked datasheets having their own faction keyword and the article implies using the Legion of Excess faction keyword in the Legion of Excess detachment. If the datasheets that have the Chaos Daemons keyword goes away, it locks them out of the mixed god options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Follow up: On a neat bit of future proofing, I just noticed the Daemons Grotsmas Detatchments all have two faction icons.

So as it stands, the question of cross daemon play comes down entirely to whether or not the Index datasheets remain. At this point I'd probably guess not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm.... Grotsmas detatchments do rely on the Legions Daemonica keyword a bit to much to work with these datasheets. Maybe they do just keep the Index around. Weird....

Dudeface wrote:
For once, dakka is proving to actually be the least negative space online about all this.

I've had/have world eaters, I've had 2 years of vindicator puns made, I sort of get any upset.

That said, GW have refine what they want EC to be in 40k, they've orchestrated a book to fit that image. A lot of people pset are who wanted to play in a way that is now *not* what emperors children are (gunlines and/or CSM units).

However the missing units and their pre-existing army has been a CSM army for the last few decades, it still works perfectly fine as a CSM in pink/purple. All is not lost, you can also house rule stuff in outside of events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daemons article is up, it's very ambiguous imo:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

Why can't EC field gunline armies? Their most iconic unit is made up of guys with guns. The stratagem Endless Cacophony allowed you to shoot twice and was used a lot on Obliterators. This new style of fighting the GW is forcing on the Emperor's Children is not necessarily more accurate, only more flanderized.

 BorderCountess wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I remain mildly disappointed in the lack of Daemon Engines.

I know Vashtorr, and the Negavolt Cultists of BSF hint at Dark Mechanicum coming at some point.

But come on Nurgle is on two (lawnmowers and flying thing), and everyone else is on Nowt in terms of God Aligned. And even for Chaos Undecided, there’s just the Defiler (resculpt pls) and the dual kit,

Nurgle has three, and how did you forget the Lord of Skulls?

Because I’m old and my memory is failing? I dunno!

You can't be old, you're my age... and possibly BorderCountesses age and she remembered.

We need another excuse.

You old chaps all seem to have forgotten the venomcrawler, too.

Get off my lawn, whippersnapper!

You're all talking about new-fangled daemon engines and here I am wondering why none of you mentioned Brass Scorpions.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
For once, dakka is proving to actually be the least negative space online about all this.

I've had/have world eaters, I've had 2 years of vindicator puns made, I sort of get any upset.

That said, GW have refine what they want EC to be in 40k, they've orchestrated a book to fit that image. A lot of people pset are who wanted to play in a way that is now *not* what emperors children are (gunlines and/or CSM units).

However the missing units and their pre-existing army has been a CSM army for the last few decades, it still works perfectly fine as a CSM in pink/purple. All is not lost, you can also house rule stuff in outside of events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daemons article is up, it's very ambiguous imo:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

Why can't EC field gunline armies? Their most iconic unit is made up of guys with guns. The stratagem Endless Cacophony allowed you to shoot twice and was used a lot on Obliterators. This new style of fighting the GW is forcing on the Emperor's Children is not necessarily more accurate, only more flanderized.

Yes, that's what I said and a good example of the sort of anger spammed everywhere else.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Aye, I realy wish they'd stop dancing around the question and just say whether there'll be a Daemons 'dex or not - and whether that means the units that don't get printed in a god-aligned Legion 'dex are off to Legends.

I thought it was already stated that Daemons weren't getting a dex. The question has been whether their Index will remain legal going forward.

I'm not certain, but I don't recall them explicitly stating no Daemons book, just that we were going to see Daemons in the god-aligned Legion books.

And given how small a subset of the Slaaneshi daemons made it into the EC book...

Dudeface wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
For once, dakka is proving to actually be the least negative space online about all this.

I've had/have world eaters, I've had 2 years of vindicator puns made, I sort of get any upset.

That said, GW have refine what they want EC to be in 40k, they've orchestrated a book to fit that image. A lot of people pset are who wanted to play in a way that is now *not* what emperors children are (gunlines and/or CSM units).

However the missing units and their pre-existing army has been a CSM army for the last few decades, it still works perfectly fine as a CSM in pink/purple. All is not lost, you can also house rule stuff in outside of events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daemons article is up, it's very ambiguous imo:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

Why can't EC field gunline armies? Their most iconic unit is made up of guys with guns. The stratagem Endless Cacophony allowed you to shoot twice and was used a lot on Obliterators. This new style of fighting the GW is forcing on the Emperor's Children is not necessarily more accurate, only more flanderized.

Yes, that's what I said and a good example of the sort of anger spammed everywhere else.

Ok, I misunderstood. I don't understand why specialized CSM armies can't get the same treatment as SM, being able to take almost anything from the main SM codex, with exceptions for obvious lore (no psykers for WE, very few flesh-and-blood units for TS besides cultists, etc.).

I think its an attempt to make them actually different as opposed to "the same army with a different paint scheme and shoulderpads"


This is just the first step of change and its clear GW focused very much on the marine component of the swapover with models. We kind of saw the same with Slaanesh in AoS - first we got a LOT of demonic leaders and nothing on the troops then we got a LOT of mortal troop followers and updates there.

So chances are this is not a one-and-done but part of an ongoing change and experiment. GW will likely flesh out EC with more and more options as time passes.




IT is curious that they lost one or two options along the way; maybe they really want them to be the glass-canon close combat focused army or all-comers; or perhaps they've new models in mind that might come out in months/years down the road etc...

 LunarSol wrote:
So as it stands, the question of cross daemon play comes down entirely to whether or not the Index datasheets remain. At this point I'd probably guess not.

It can't be out because Be'lakor is a thing. Unless GW squats brand new big centrepiece model, I can't see that going away.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Why can't EC field gunline armies? Their most iconic unit is made up of guys with guns. The stratagem Endless Cacophony allowed you to shoot twice and was used a lot on Obliterators. This new style of fighting the GW is forcing on the Emperor's Children is not necessarily more accurate, only more flanderized.

How is it more iconic/flanderized?

No, seriously, if there was anything flanderized it was WAAAC army spammed by thatguys around broken stratagem, army that looked nothing like anything CSM ever fielded in any GW book, be it game or fluff one. I am strangely sure if that stratagem buffed melee instead the 'iconic' thing would be instead Land Raiders full of Chosen with thunderhammers or other such nonsense.

If anything, looking at HH era EC and new 40K ones, I really like how they look like the exact same army, just Chaosified. I really despised nonsense watering of CSM with loyalist stuff due to endless WAAAC whining (say, all the wargear CSM didn't have for six editions because it was either post Heresy invention or too hard to maintain for nomadic warbands suddenly being mass produced and handed out like candy). Especially idiotic thunder hammer access on every Chaos lord because one named, very specific Black Legion dude from BSF captured and desecrated one at great expense to get advantage over all other BL lords, which then some genius writer decided should apply to not only every generic lord but also all of their sidekicks for no reason, rules openly gaking on very fluff of said model/faction I love the fact no EC model has thunder hammers/storm bolters/storm shields/other gak all the really iconic Chaos depictions missed, this is exactly how the Chaos armies were supposed to look like.

Now, if only we could go back to every CSM wearing patchwork looted armor made up from whatever replacements they could scrounge (and bits of chainmail where they couldn't) instead of every traitor walking in what looks like pristine artificer plate rigidly adhering to a single armor mark in whole warband, it would be really great...

 Irbis wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
So as it stands, the question of cross daemon play comes down entirely to whether or not the Index datasheets remain. At this point I'd probably guess not.

It can't be out because Be'lakor is a thing. Unless GW squats brand new big centrepiece model, I can't see that going away.

I could see him going in Knights or making a special detachment with him that lets you take a certain amount of points of each of these new faction keywords. I'd certainly not at all be sad to see some kind of Agents of Chaos dex though that had daemons and cultists and stuff.

 Irbis wrote:


If anything, looking at HH era EC and new 40K ones, I really like how they look like the exact same army, just Chaosified. I really despised nonsense watering of CSM with loyalist stuff due to endless WAAAC whining (say, all the wargear CSM didn't have for six editions because it was either post Heresy invention or too hard to maintain for nomadic warbands suddenly being mass produced and handed out like candy). Especially idiotic thunder hammer access on every Chaos lord because one named, very specific Black Legion dude from BSF captured and desecrated one at great expense to get advantage over all other BL lords, which then some genius writer decided should apply to not only every generic lord but also all of their sidekicks for no reason, rules openly gaking on very fluff of said model/faction I love the fact no EC model has thunder hammers/storm bolters/storm shields/other gak all the really iconic Chaos depictions missed, this is exactly how the Chaos armies were supposed to look like.

Now, if only we could go back to every CSM wearing patchwork looted armor made up from whatever replacements they could scrounge (and bits of chainmail where they couldn't) instead of every traitor walking in what looks like pristine artificer plate rigidly adhering to a single armor mark in whole warband, it would be really great...

I totally agree, I never understood why any force that aligned itself with "Chaos" would decide to all have matching outfits.

"Alright, Jerry, go to the Dark Mechanicus and make sure that every marine under our command has a large pair of bat ears on their helmets. We're going to be raiding Imperial worlds and we need to put on a nice uniformed front."

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
For once, dakka is proving to actually be the least negative space online about all this.

I've had/have world eaters, I've had 2 years of vindicator puns made, I sort of get any upset.

That said, GW have refine what they want EC to be in 40k, they've orchestrated a book to fit that image. A lot of people pset are who wanted to play in a way that is now *not* what emperors children are (gunlines and/or CSM units).

However the missing units and their pre-existing army has been a CSM army for the last few decades, it still works perfectly fine as a CSM in pink/purple. All is not lost, you can also house rule stuff in outside of events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daemons article is up, it's very ambiguous imo:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

Why can't EC field gunline armies? Their most iconic unit is made up of guys with guns. The stratagem Endless Cacophony allowed you to shoot twice and was used a lot on Obliterators. This new style of fighting the GW is forcing on the Emperor's Children is not necessarily more accurate, only more flanderized.

Yes, that's what I said and a good example of the sort of anger spammed everywhere else.

Ok, I misunderstood. I don't understand why specialized CSM armies can't get the same treatment as SM, being able to take almost anything from the main SM codex, with exceptions for obvious lore (no psykers for WE, very few flesh-and-blood units for TS besides cultists, etc.).

Because the entire game has suffered at the hands of Marines having a selection of "Marines +1" game design choices for years. This is better.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Irbis wrote:


If anything, looking at HH era EC and new 40K ones, I really like how they look like the exact same army, just Chaosified. I really despised nonsense watering of CSM with loyalist stuff due to endless WAAAC whining (say, all the wargear CSM didn't have for six editions because it was either post Heresy invention or too hard to maintain for nomadic warbands suddenly being mass produced and handed out like candy). Especially idiotic thunder hammer access on every Chaos lord because one named, very specific Black Legion dude from BSF captured and desecrated one at great expense to get advantage over all other BL lords, which then some genius writer decided should apply to not only every generic lord but also all of their sidekicks for no reason, rules openly gaking on very fluff of said model/faction I love the fact no EC model has thunder hammers/storm bolters/storm shields/other gak all the really iconic Chaos depictions missed, this is exactly how the Chaos armies were supposed to look like.

Now, if only we could go back to every CSM wearing patchwork looted armor made up from whatever replacements they could scrounge (and bits of chainmail where they couldn't) instead of every traitor walking in what looks like pristine artificer plate rigidly adhering to a single armor mark in whole warband, it would be really great...

I totally agree, I never understood why any force that aligned itself with "Chaos" would decide to all have matching outfits.

"Alright, Jerry, go to the Dark Mechanicus and make sure that every marine under our command has a large pair of bat ears on their helmets. We're going to be raiding Imperial worlds and we need to put on a nice uniformed front."

Totally agree. It pretty silly when you consider the chaos gods have their favourite colour and their favourite number they are obsessing about. But then again, perhaps its just the followers that are obsessing over every detail of their patron ruinous power in the faint hope that they will be noticed.

 Overread wrote:
IT is curious that they lost one or two options along the way

Terminator Lords
Terminator Sorcerors
Dark Communes
Dark Apostles
Warpsmiths
Lords Discordant
Chosen
Raptors
Warp Talons
Bikes
Obliterators
Venom Crawlers
Forgefeinds
Cultists
Accursed Cultists
Traitor Guard
Beastmen
Predators
Vindicators
Enforcers
Firebrands
Defilers
Havoks
Helbrutes
(Legends units)

One or two, yeah.

 Irbis wrote:
[I love the fact no EC model has thunder hammers

RIP bozo Vaust.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Overread wrote:
IT is curious that they lost one or two options along the way

Terminator Lords
Terminator Sorcerors
Dark Communes
Dark Apostles
Warpsmiths
Lords Discordant
Chosen
Raptors
Warp Talons
Bikes
Obliterators
Venom Crawlers
Forgefeinds
Cultists
Accursed Cultists
Traitor Guard
Beastmen
Predators
Vindicators
Enforcers
Firebrands
Defilers
Havoks

One or two, yeah.

Again, those are chaos space marine units, there hasn't been an Emperors Children codex to lose anything from. I also know you've been around long enough to know this isn't the first time this has happened, so shouldn't be a surprise.

Some of that is incredibly easy to explain away, some of it lacks any notable fluff to back up being kept, some of it is honestly a bit weird they don't have them. None of that changes the core truth this is a new army and GW are picking units to fit their design view.

Dudeface wrote:
Again, those are chaos space marine units

Pink Spiky Marines are Spiky Marines.

Saying 'well, they had to deny access to more units than are in the new codex in total because they have to be arbitrarily different to justify them being separate, and they have to be separate because Pink' is not compelling to me.

Dudeface wrote:
there hasn't been an Emperors Children codex to lose anything from

Get Rekt Pink Spiky Marine players. Your faction hasn't existed until now.

Dudeface wrote:
I also know you've been around long enough to know this isn't the first time this has happened, so shouldn't be a surprise

I've been saying that this was going to happen since Blue Spiky Marines got their own book. It isn't a surprise to me. That doesn't mean that it isn't hot garbage on multiple levels.

Dudeface wrote:
GW are picking units to fit their design view.

They're picking units to sell more toys. Get real.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Again, those are chaos space marine units

Pink Spiky Marines are Spiky Marines.

Saying 'well, they had to deny access to more units than are in the new codex in total because they have to be arbitrarily different to justify them being separate, and they have to be separate because Pink' is not compelling to me.

Dudeface wrote:
there hasn't been an Emperors Children codex to lose anything from

Get Rekt Pink Spiky Marine players. Your faction hasn't existed until now.

Dudeface wrote:
I also know you've been around long enough to know this isn't the first time this has happened, so shouldn't be a surprise

I've been saying that this was going to happen since Blue Spiky Marines got their own book. It isn't a surprise to me. That doesn't mean that it isn't hot garbage on multiple levels.

Dudeface wrote:
GW are picking units to fit their design view.

They're picking units to sell more toys. Get real.

So they're putting fewer units in to sell more stuff, you sure that adds up? If they gained all the new stuff, all the detachments, rules, daemon integration (albeit pants) and retained full chaos marines access, who wouldn't be playing one of the legions at this point?

Chaos Marines losing access to their Standard units can't be explained in any way, it's just stupid. I get DG losing bikes. But EC? I even get DG losing Vindicator (even though it was their most used tank...) because there's the crawler with a quite similar role. But EC losing a Helbrute? Cultists? Bikes? Raptors? You know, the guys praying to the god of being fast who had the only named Biker character in the past lose all ways of being fast but the Rhino...

Let's face it it's as if Blood Angels would lose Scouts and Devastators for no reason, while Space wolves lose bikes and Dreads and Black Templars lose Terminators. It just makes no sense at all.
If you want to lean into specializations you'd compare it to Space Wolves losing all aircraft because of old fluff. Black Templars losing all Land Raiders but the Crusader and Blood Angels losing any unit that lacks a jump Pack. Dark Angels lose anything that's not on bike or a terminator because extreme flanderization is apparently fun.

When Votann got introduced they were new, and only got a handful of units. E

I understand that EC are a "new" army and need to stand on their own. However, fluff states they have certain units. Units that HAVE models. Not having access to the Hellbrute (at the least) is just weird. I'd say the same about the Predator. I know they want to keep the army as different from the other factions as possible, and I support that, but I feel they should have had at least those two included at least until the next codex when EC have more goodies.

 cuda1179 wrote:
When Votann got introduced they were new, and only got a handful of units. E

I understand that EC are a "new" army and need to stand on their own. However, fluff states they have certain units. Units that HAVE models. Not having access to the Hellbrute (at the least) is just weird. I'd say the same about the Predator. I know they want to keep the army as different from the other factions as possible, and I support that, but I feel they should have had at least those two included at least until the next codex when EC have more goodies.

Helbrute is very easy to explain. It's a model that's getting replaced soon and GW doesn't want to encourage players starting this "new" army to invest in models that GW isn't planning to sell for long (or at all, as its exclusive to their site and not even available there).

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Chaos Marines losing access to their Standard units can't be explained in any way, it's just stupid. I get DG losing bikes. But EC? I even get DG losing Vindicator (even though it was their most used tank...) because there's the crawler with a quite similar role. But EC losing a Helbrute? Cultists? Bikes? Raptors? You know, the guys praying to the god of being fast who had the only named Biker character in the past lose all ways of being fast but the Rhino...

I might be the only one, but I was genuinely hoping for a new Doomrider with this book...

 Dysartes wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Chaos Marines losing access to their Standard units can't be explained in any way, it's just stupid. I get DG losing bikes. But EC? I even get DG losing Vindicator (even though it was their most used tank...) because there's the crawler with a quite similar role. But EC losing a Helbrute? Cultists? Bikes? Raptors? You know, the guys praying to the god of being fast who had the only named Biker character in the past lose all ways of being fast but the Rhino...

I might be the only one, but I was genuinely hoping for a new Doomrider with this book...

As silly as Doomrider was, and quite frankly his model was HIDEOUS, I think he'd be an excellent candidate for a future revision. A suitably ornate and twisted, somewhat oversized bike, flaming hair/wheels, and possibly levitated up in the air. It would be silly, but great. Unfortunately it would also require EC bikes to go along with him, so it will likely never happen.