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 vipoid wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Are agonisers just not a thing anymore? Are the whips on the sprues just meant to be variant power weapons now? Or maybe its vice-versa, since the Kablite power weapons have the traditionally agoniser-like ability of anti-infantry, whereas the Archon has that trait on their actual agoniser, and their power sword is just Strength 4.

Hilariously, Wyches can no longer take Razorflails. However, the new Kill-Team Kabalite unit can take one.

I can only assume that decision made sense to someone at GW.

The new Codex Wyches have the option for Gladiatorial Weapons, which includes the Razorflails, which is more than they currently have. The Gladiatorial Weapons (Wyches) and Razorflail (Hand of the Archon) even have the same S, AP, and D status. GW decided to not give the three special weapons different weapon profiles, probably to keep gameplay easier.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I'm not totally surprised - GW are still riding the high of Space Marine 2.

Nah, Calgar just had to have the servitors whip up a new suit of Plot Armor.

I still remember buying the vigilus book and the fight with Abby leaving him perilously wounded and unable to return to the field. Seems losing both hearts and a hand isn't an issue these days.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Are agonisers just not a thing anymore? Are the whips on the sprues just meant to be variant power weapons now? Or maybe its vice-versa, since the Kablite power weapons have the traditionally agoniser-like ability of anti-infantry, whereas the Archon has that trait on their actual agoniser, and their power sword is just Strength 4.

Agonisers are basically power weapons with Anti-Infantry 3+.

They are for the Archon, who could choose to wield one over a Huskblade or Power Weapon, but for a Sybarite the only option is a Power Weapon by name with an Agoniser profile.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I'm just glad GW seems to be slowly getting over their tacticool marines phase.

100% yes. The tacticool picatinny rail crap on every bolter was so crappy. Maybe the designer involved in that has left and some others have taken their place.

The 4th edition Metal Calgar looks much better than this one. The 10th edition Victrix Guard looks better than the 4th (and way better than the 8th).

I prefer the Gravis Calgar to this one as well.

Dudeface wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I'm not totally surprised - GW are still riding the high of Space Marine 2.

Nah, Calgar just had to have the servitors whip up a new suit of Plot Armor.

I still remember buying the vigilus book and the fight with Abby leaving him perilously wounded and unable to return to the field. Seems losing both hearts and a hand isn't an issue these days.

I forgot about the hand.

That means over the course of one book, Clagar lost a hand, a throat, and three fething hearts.

Give the “new Primaris lieutenant” shtick a rest. It should have died with the Eldar refresh, to be honest. Everyone will get their time in the sun.

 BorderCountess wrote:

That means over the course of one book, Clagar lost a hand, a throat, and three fething hearts.

Honestly in the context of 40K - that doesn't sound that bad!

Bale-Eye lost an arm, an eye and probably a good few other internal organs too and he's just a humie not a beaky - and he kept going (with a few augmentations/fixer-uppers)

chaos0xomega wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:

 DaveC wrote:


Possible Calgar leak - if it's fake someone went to a lot of effort - the head is missing as it was circulating as a meme before someone realised what it is.

If true that's just about the most ridiculous release in the history of 40k. I can understand why GW likes releasing space marines but even so there's a whole host of other space marine characters that needed a new model first. The current model still fits with the current range, scales well and is a really great model. The new model looks great but replacing the existing model at this juncture feels premature.

The current model fits with the current range because it *is* part of the current range. Its literally a primaris model with a primaris honor guard.

Exactly my point. It didn't need redoing.

Now that we've seen the rest of this release, I'm also confused as to why we're getting more honour guard. GW released a primaris honour guard within this edition. Did we need another one specifically for Ultramarines? They could have just released a sprue of victrix heads.

Again, lovely models, but why?

If I was a dark eldar player I'd be livid.

 Nevelon wrote:

Why more Calgar?

I'm going to baselessly speculate that Gravis armour didn't catch on, so GW is pivoting back to Termies as the heavies of the faction.

This line of thought has nothing to do with my (perfectly rational) dislike of the Gravis armour.

Gravis armor is fine, but its not an alternative to terminator armor. Character models aside (as they tend to be bulked out by power fists and heavier weapons, etc), its often hard to notice you're even looking at Gravis armor because its not all that much more than bulky than tacticus armor.

 alextroy wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Are agonisers just not a thing anymore? Are the whips on the sprues just meant to be variant power weapons now? Or maybe its vice-versa, since the Kablite power weapons have the traditionally agoniser-like ability of anti-infantry, whereas the Archon has that trait on their actual agoniser, and their power sword is just Strength 4.

Hilariously, Wyches can no longer take Razorflails. However, the new Kill-Team Kabalite unit can take one.

I can only assume that decision made sense to someone at GW.

The new Codex Wyches have the option for Gladiatorial Weapons, which includes the Razorflails, which is more than they currently have. The Gladiatorial Weapons (Wyches) and Razorflail (Hand of the Archon) even have the same S, AP, and D status. GW decided to not give the three special weapons different weapon profiles, probably to keep gameplay easier.

That would make more sense if GW hadn't removed the Agoniser from every unit bar the Archon.

Does it not seem even slightly wonky that a Razorflail deserves its own special entry on a Warriors unit, yet an Agoniser is not considered noteworthy enough to warrant the same treatment?

The Black Adder wrote:
GW released a primaris honour guard within this edition. Did we need another one specifically for Ultramarines? They could have just released a sprue of victrix heads.

Again, lovely models, but why?

If I was a dark eldar player I'd be livid.

To give Ultramarines a unique unit of their own to bring them more on par with the other first founding chapters who have multiple unique units and models plus all the basic sm stuff?

As a DE person as well, I'm annoyed, but not at the Ultramarines who are 1 unit and 2 characters when space wolves had their one box which made Blood claws, gray hunters, and even wolf guard in power armor split into 3 kits while DE loses units again and GK only got an upgrade sprue

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:
GW released a primaris honour guard within this edition. Did we need another one specifically for Ultramarines? They could have just released a sprue of victrix heads.

Again, lovely models, but why?

If I was a dark eldar player I'd be livid.

To give Ultramarines a unique unit of their own to bring them more on par with the other first founding chapters who have multiple unique units and models plus all the basic sm stuff?

As a DE person as well, I'm annoyed, but not at the Ultramarines who are 1 unit and 2 characters when space wolves had their one box which made Blood claws, gray hunters, and even wolf guard in power armor split into 3 kits while DE loses units again and GK only got an upgrade sprue

They can't do big releases for everyone though, i understand the disappointment, but I also remember the endless moan for new ork boyz and how that turned out.

Dudeface wrote:
They can't do big releases for everyone though, i understand the disappointment, but I also remember the endless moan for new ork boyz and how that turned out.

Is this 'you shouldn't want new kits because GW might deliberately screw you with them'..?

Dudeface wrote:
They can't do big releases for everyone though, i understand the disappointment, but I also remember the endless moan for new ork boyz and how that turned out.

What was that moan about? I only remember a lot of disappointment among Ork players because of the monopose design of the new Ork boyz .

I quite like Calgar's new buddies, but more as raw material for converting Heresy-era Ultras.

 Snord wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
They can't do big releases for everyone though, i understand the disappointment, but I also remember the endless moan for new ork boyz and how that turned out.

What was that moan about? I only remember a lot of disappointment among Ork players because of the monopose design of the new Ork boyz .

I quite like Calgar's new buddies, but more as raw material for converting Heresy-era Ultras.

Pretty much, clamouring for a resculpt of a kit because its old will likely result in fewer options, less posability and more expensive. The same happened to most other armies who had decent looking plastics revamped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
They can't do big releases for everyone though, i understand the disappointment, but I also remember the endless moan for new ork boyz and how that turned out.

Is this 'you shouldn't want new kits because GW might deliberately screw you with them'..?

Yes and no. The no part is if the kit isn't really that bad, don't clamour for a re-do as itll likely cost more for less.

Well yes there are missing updates this edition, but let's not pretend that Space marines is not their best seller. I bet that these 3 kits for ultras will outsell full armies updates like Votann and such.
I collect Votann, Tyranids, Space Wolves and Deathguard but eyeballing another Xeno. Mostly a Xeno fan but yeah Spacemarines will always be focus of 40k.

I think some of the concerns about Xenos armies in particular are legacy issues.

They used to regularly get the crappy end of the stick, that’s absolutely true. I mean, look at how long it took for Eldar to get a meaningful update, and not just the odd new model here and there. Tyranids too.

But in recent years? Orks, Necrons, Craftworld Eldar and Tyranids have had now quite significant updates, refreshes and new additions. The job isn’t completely complete there, no. But they’re light years ahead of where they were not all that long ago.

Dark Eldar? Well. They did get a huge refresh around….2010 or so? The entire range redone with a significant part in plastic. Since then they’ve not really had much love, despite there still being Finecast in the range. And when it’s come, it’s again been sporadic.

There had been hope that with Craftworlds pretty much wrapped up, it was time for Commoragh to shine. But sadly not.

Whilst I still wouldn’t say they’re in a bad spot? They still could do with a decent update.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think some of the concerns about Xenos armies in particular are legacy issues.

They used to regularly get the crappy end of the stick, that’s absolutely true. I mean, look at how long it took for Eldar to get a meaningful update, and not just the odd new model here and there. Tyranids too.

But in recent years? Orks, Necrons, Craftworld Eldar and Tyranids have had now quite significant updates, refreshes and new additions. The job isn’t completely complete there, no. But they’re light years ahead of where they were not all that long ago.

Dark Eldar? Well. They did get a huge refresh around….2010 or so? The entire range redone with a significant part in plastic. Since then they’ve not really had much love, despite there still being Finecast in the range. And when it’s come, it’s again been sporadic.

There had been hope that with Craftworlds pretty much wrapped up, it was time for Commoragh to shine. But sadly not.

Whilst I still wouldn’t say they’re in a bad spot? They still could do with a decent update.

The rumours are a big release across 11th and maybe 12th which will add in some stuff but it was a large chunk of resculpts as well, so it supposedly is coming but this edition has seen Tau, Eldar, Votann and of course Nids all get notable release waves for the xenos camp. I'd look at those and the numbers and it might be fair to imagine 4 large xenos releases next edition, Orks and Drukhari likely already eating two of them.

Dudeface wrote:
Pretty much, clamouring for a resculpt of a kit because its old will likely result in fewer options, less posability and more expensive. The same happened to most other armies who had decent looking plastics revamped.

I see. I think it's less predictable than that. Certainly more expensive, but otherwise it depends. Those Ork Boyz were a bit of an outlier; the design suggested they were intended for boxed set rather than being a proper replacement kit.

I still think of the DE as a 'new' range, when of course they aren't. However, they have a very unified look, and the level of detail holds up well. In some ways, they have one of the best figure ranges. I think a bit of a refresh is in order, plus a couple of new units to give them something interesting.

After the way GW split Eldar / Guard / Votann releases in 9th & 10th I'm kinda hoping to see a smaller second wave for Tyranids for 11th.

Something like 4-6 kits could finish fully modernising the range by updating units like gargoyles, carnifex, and possibly warriors.

 BorderCountess wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I'm not totally surprised - GW are still riding the high of Space Marine 2.

Nah, Calgar just had to have the servitors whip up a new suit of Plot Armor.

I still remember buying the vigilus book and the fight with Abby leaving him perilously wounded and unable to return to the field. Seems losing both hearts and a hand isn't an issue these days.

I forgot about the hand.

That means over the course of one book, Clagar lost a hand, a throat, and three fething hearts.

Well, as he was first mentioned he lost his arms, his legs, a lot of his body and an eye when fighting Tyranids. He should be used to that kind of mauling.

Which I’d argue not just getting in and finishing the job more frustrating.

The Big Lads (Grotesques?) definitely need a trip across the Rubicon Plasticarus. And I understand there’s significant demand for excised special characters to return with models. And the Archon’s Court.

A dedicated Trueborn Kit, maybe with extra fancy weapon options I think would be well received. Just more interesting than using the basic squad models.

Not familiar enough with the entire range to say what else needs a model or refresh. But I think some new toys are in order.