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So…Ghaz has a Stargate!

After all the unnecessary gloating about how "Primaris" were replacing "Firstborn", there is a little bit of schadenfraude now seeing panic setting in over "Primaris" units being replaced or squatted

 Nevelon wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Yeah totally agree with Crimson. I think the Gravis armour is great. I think because it's uniquely "Primaris" I don't have an issue with it, whereas some of the others I preferred the original. I think it's purpose of up armoured Mk X is a nice touch.

I think a true tactical squad refresh would have say 8 intercessors 1x special weapon, one gravis marine with heavy weapons and one Sergeant.

Mixing armor in squads could cause issues. Movement speed being one of them. It’s fine in KT, where you can take a gravis HB in a squad of intercessors. For the full 40k, I’d rather not see it personally.

My issue with agressors is less with the gravis armor or fists, but with the ammo belts.

The heavy intercessor kit is fine when built, but needs a lot of clean up work due to mold lines running over details, particularly backpack vents.

Im a bit more concerned with the Phobos armour since the vanguard box is at last chase to buy and theres the duplication of Reivers and normal Phobos stuff... and the Phobos guy on leviathan feels a bit alone there. We also have scouts now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So…Ghaz has a Stargate!

Worse, that's an Ori Supergate!

Given the description of how the mega-tellyshokka works, it seems to bear absolutely no relation to the picture of the ork webway gate -esque structure...

Just don't think about it!

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Given the description of how the mega-tellyshokka works, it seems to bear absolutely no relation to the picture of the ork webway gate -esque structure...

Just don't think about it!

Actually, it does, if you know how Ori Supergates from SG-1 are constructed and activated. The influence is very much worn on their sleeves, even down to the "have to destroy a planet to activate it".

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Yeah totally agree with Crimson. I think the Gravis armour is great. I think because it's uniquely "Primaris" I don't have an issue with it, whereas some of the others I preferred the original. I think it's purpose of up armoured Mk X is a nice touch.

I think a true tactical squad refresh would have say 8 intercessors 1x special weapon, one gravis marine with heavy weapons and one Sergeant.

Mixing armor in squads could cause issues. Movement speed being one of them. It’s fine in KT, where you can take a gravis HB in a squad of intercessors. For the full 40k, I’d rather not see it personally.

My issue with agressors is less with the gravis armor or fists, but with the ammo belts.

The heavy intercessor kit is fine when built, but needs a lot of clean up work due to mold lines running over details, particularly backpack vents.

Im a bit more concerned with the Phobos armour since the vanguard box is at last chase to buy and theres the duplication of Reivers and normal Phobos stuff... and the Phobos guy on leviathan feels a bit alone there. We also have scouts now.

I think there room for both scouts and phobos to exist, but they do have a lot of overlap.

I do think there should be some consolidation in datasheets, both with the squads and LT’s. The vanguard box was the only place to get the medic trooper for infiltrators, but that changed with the KT squad box. We have 3 different Lts, which is a little much. Could be 2 easy, a lone wolf guy amd a squad leader.

 NAVARRO wrote:
[
Im a bit more concerned with the Phobos armour since the vanguard box is at last chase to buy and theres the duplication of Reivers and normal Phobos stuff... and the Phobos guy on leviathan feels a bit alone there. We also have scouts now.

Wouldn't really worry about Phobos as a whole. That box is on Last Chance because it remains the only way to get Suppressors. Everything else has a stand alone kit with options that aren't present in that mono pose pack.

New BFG confirmed?

I seem to lack some meaningful connection to tactical squads. To me Intercessors have always been their direct analog. I wouldn't mind a special weapon option beyond the grenade launcher, but they've never been meaningfully different to me.

 LunarSol wrote:
I seem to lack some meaningful connection to tactical squads. To me Intercessors have always been their direct analog. I wouldn't mind a special weapon option beyond the grenade launcher, but they've never been meaningfully different to me.

An intercessor squad is just a tac squad where the only special/heavy option they have is the AGL.

For me it’s the history and continuity. I’ve put my first RTB01 tac squad on the table of every FLGS I’ve frequented. In every edition. They have been with us since the start. A core foundation of the setting. I’ve got a firstborn battle company of the shelf. Each squad a weapon loadout for different roles. Gives them more personality and flavor then just basic bolter guys (with a grenade launder per 5 guys)

Dropping tacs is throwing a huge part of the history of the game into the bin.

How many older players are going to look at legacy collections, have a good long thought about sunk cost fallacies, and walk?

Because dropping tacticals is ripping the heart and soul out of a lot of marine players.

(I’ll be torqued, but not enough to quit. Y’all are still stuck with me)

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
New BFG confirmed?

Is this is a meme or an actual thing or what?

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
New BFG confirmed?

Is this is a meme or an actual thing or what?

Nah just responding to the pic.

 LunarSol wrote:
The question is whether Eradicators are getting weapon options or if we're getting a special name for each weapon option.

Eradicators - Melta
Exterminators - Heavy Bolters
Ennihilators - Las Cannons

Heavy Intercessors and Eliminator are the heavy bolter and lascannons spam marines. The only weapons type completely absent from primaris is grav.

 Jidmah wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The question is whether Eradicators are getting weapon options or if we're getting a special name for each weapon option.

Eradicators - Melta
Exterminators - Heavy Bolters
Ennihilators - Las Cannons

Heavy Intercessors and Eliminator are the heavy bolter and lascannons spam marines. The only weapons type completely absent from primaris is grav.

Referring to the Armageddon rumors are that it will contain a 3 man squad of Gravis with Heavy Bolters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
I seem to lack some meaningful connection to tactical squads. To me Intercessors have always been their direct analog. I wouldn't mind a special weapon option beyond the grenade launcher, but they've never been meaningfully different to me.

An intercessor squad is just a tac squad where the only special/heavy option they have is the AGL.

For me it’s the history and continuity. I’ve put my first RTB01 tac squad on the table of every FLGS I’ve frequented. In every edition. They have been with us since the start. A core foundation of the setting. I’ve got a firstborn battle company of the shelf. Each squad a weapon loadout for different roles. Gives them more personality and flavor then just basic bolter guys (with a grenade launder per 5 guys)

Dropping tacs is throwing a huge part of the history of the game into the bin.

How many older players are going to look at legacy collections, have a good long thought about sunk cost fallacies, and walk?

Because dropping tacticals is ripping the heart and soul out of a lot of marine players.

(I’ll be torqued, but not enough to quit. Y’all are still stuck with me)

I guess I just run my Tac's as Intercessors. I've honestly been surprised that hasn't been a thing for years already. I just find them entirely interchangable and pretty much always have since Intercessors were introduced in 8th.

 Olthannon wrote:
Yeah totally agree with Crimson. I think the Gravis armour is great. I think because it's uniquely "Primaris" I don't have an issue with it, whereas some of the others I preferred the original. I think it's purpose of up armoured Mk X is a nice touch.

I think a true tactical squad refresh would have say 8 intercessors 1x special weapon, one gravis marine with heavy weapons and one Sergeant.

Guess the look of anything is subjective but it's novel to my experience to find fans of gravis. I think it looks awful.

Mixed squads are rather unlikely given the sternguard are all basic mk x tacticus and have a heavy bolter.

Gravis is one of the worst examples of "just add more stuff" approach many modern SM kits suffer from. It takes the relatively clean design of Mk10 and keeps adding things until there are three soles to a boot, tassets on tassets, and everything has panel lines.

Detail for the sake of detail, and it fails to convey "well armoured" even half as well as Terminators do.

 RegularGuy wrote:
The legends/squatting has all but killed interest in 40k for my son. He had it in him to build and paint a decent army, and pieces keep falling off each edition he doesn't have cash or desire to replace with the latest GameBrakers models. Despite his desire to play competitively.

But he's not the demographic this game is for. Its not like GW will miss him. Sad though, he really loved it, part of the sell was that you could build and paint your models and use them edition after edition.

Yeah, that's not the demographic. You're meant to excitedly buy the new shiny and toss/shelve it when it rotates out into legends. GW wants the game to be approached like MTG.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Gravis is one of the worst examples of "just add more stuff" approach many modern SM kits suffer from. It takes the relatively clean design of Mk10 and keeps adding things until there are three soles to a boot, tassets on tassets, and everything has panel lines.

Detail for the sake of detail, and it fails to convey "well armoured" even half as well as Terminators do.

Honestly you are just describing the entire Primaris range there for me, including the 'basic' Intercessors. It's all extraneous detail that doesn't seem to follow a properly coherent design language, doesn't contribute to the flow and tone of the model, and frequently outright clashes with it horribly. Everything from the goofy flanged knee pads to the bib chest plate, to the half assed gorget, to the platform heels, to the weird little tau wing flaps added to all the jump pack gear, to the cullote + Basketball trainers combo on the (otherwise actually quite nice) Phobos armour. Everything in the Primaris armoury looks like an amateur kitbash of completely different model ranges.

This is going to keep happening because GW has been around for such a long time. They "need" new units all the time to keep their profits up, and they can't support an endlessly growing range. What they do support currently is absolutely massive to be fair.

I think buying stuff because you would use the models regardless of rules, game edition or anything else is the only way to approach this if you are a hobby "lifer" like me. I don't worry about any of this stuff, I just buy the stuff I want and then it's on me to find a way to use it, inside or outside of any official ecosystem. If I don't like models enough that I would still like to own them completely disregarding GW's rules and community, then I don't buy them. I never factor "Oh I can use these in 40K!" into the price because that's possibly only temporary.

It probably comes down to "tournament players don't run tactical squads" as the reason why GW is giving them the heave-ho.

Personally, I really like the look of Gravis overall. They fill in the role of a heavy really well and in particularly I love how the one mixes into the new Deathwatch Kill Team.

I think their implementation has taken a while to work though. Originally they had this orbital drop element and likely wanted to use that instead of Terminator teleportation but never quite fit. I think shifting them as modern devestators works really well.

Of their implementations, I think I'd rate them overall:

Eradicators
Incursors
Aggressors
Heavy Intercessors

I could definitely see Suppressors and Hellblasters being worked into the theme.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
It probably comes down to "tournament players don't run tactical squads" as the reason why GW is giving them the heave-ho.

If GW wanted tournament players to run tactical squads, they could absolutely make tournament players run tactical squads. They're going away because the sprue is nearly 15 years old and was replaced with a resculpt nearly a decade ago.

 Da Boss wrote:
This is going to keep happening because GW has been around for such a long time.

Exactly that. Warhammer 40K has now been around for almost 40 years. When you combine that with the fact that Space Marines are the company’s piggy bank and therefore require a steady stream of releases, along with the accelerated release schedule since 8th edition, it’s bound to happen sooner or later.

Such thing won't happen anytime soon with any Xeno army

 Da Boss wrote:
This is going to keep happening because GW has been around for such a long time. They "need" new units all the time to keep their profits up

If GW had released an updated Tactical Squad in the increased Heroes series scale, everyone would have been tearing each other apart like rabid animals to pre-order twelve of them each.

If there would have been an updated tactical squad, they obviously would have been primaris. I think they could have worked as separate unit from intercessors. Smaller, weaker bolters, but some special/heavy weapons. And probably a different special rule. The units of course would have been very similar, but if Space Wolves can have both intercessors and grey hunters then vanilla could have had intercessors and tacticals.

Lets face it "primaris" were just the new updated models that got caught up in late era kirby marketing ideas which were a bit odd. Deciding that Marines needed to double their range size by basically duplicating all the unit types was just baffling that Gw got away with it.

Otherwise it would have just been new marine models.

The only real big change is the hover-tanks over tracked tanks. That's quite a big shift in design language and style.

Crimson wrote:I think it makes perfect sense for hauling big guns, and they'd look nice and solid.

Olthannon wrote:Yeah totally agree with Crimson. I think the Gravis armour is great. I think because it's uniquely "Primaris" I don't have an issue with it, whereas some of the others I preferred the original. I think it's purpose of up armoured Mk X is a nice touch.

I think a true tactical squad refresh would have say 8 intercessors 1x special weapon, one gravis marine with heavy weapons and one Sergeant.

Yep, agreed - this is what I'm hoping for; some proper Primaris sized Tacticals! And given that the new stuff has older style helmets etc mixed in, I reckon that's possible.

And I personally reckon Gravis armoured Devastators look great!





Hopefully GW will do something similar...

I think they absolutely will do updated tacticals in the bigger scale and I think it will sell insanely well.

I've no interest myself, but I think it's very likely they'll recreate all of the old squads in the new scale over time and cycle out any primaris stuff that failed to catch.

I've essentially "finished" my 40K collection now, so I'm not a customer for any of that, but I think lots of people love building lots of space marine armies. And sure why not?

And for people who want to continue collecting stuff in the old scale, I feel as though 3d printing will keep that alive as long as there's demand for it anyway.

 Da Boss wrote:
I think they absolutely will do updated tacticals in the bigger scale and I think it will sell insanely well.

I've no interest myself, but I think it's very likely they'll recreate all of the old squads in the new scale over time and cycle out any primaris stuff that failed to catch.

I've essentially "finished" my 40K collection now, so I'm not a customer for any of that, but I think lots of people love building lots of space marine armies. And sure why not?

Given the use of 3d sculpting these days it wouldn't even be hard - they have the designs for primaris flamers, plasma and heavy bolters. Just need to get an intercessor scaled melta and maybe a lascannon, throw it all on a sprue to add to the standard intercessor kit and done.

Also I think we're past it but I wanted to throw in I like heavy intercessors. I bought the 'oops all heavy intercessors' box that came out a while ago, though I always remove the leg tubes when building them. It never made sense to have a bulky armored suit with big dangling external tubes to get caught in/cut by anything on the battlefield.