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As did I, evidently 🤣

Guess I’ll just have to go see it again.

Time for more cast based praised.

That's probably why they were growing samples we see in the cryo-room.

It is probably a blink and you'll miss it since it's only mentioned in a single line in one scene, but it sounds like the entire operation was focused on that as a goal, which is admittedly a thousand times less insane than previous films trying to play 'the company' up like it was looking for a bioweapon.

As a bioweapon the Xenomorph makes zero sense (one thing Prometheus sort of did right is that the xenomorph seemed like more of a byproduct, not the actual weapon). Just make a super virus that wipes out the planet if you're so inclined. Making monsters is just inefficient.

EDIT:

Speaking of, one things that Romulus really captures about the original 2 movies (the unabashedly good ones) is how the comapny's callous disregard for human life is the real villain of the plot. The alien itself is just a force of nature. An infection/storm/disaster inflicted on people by the company's selfish, short-sighted, ends.

We see it in Romulus too right at the start where the walk through the company town shows its low regard for people it has trapped. Then later in the movie, we see it again when <spoiler> is ranting about the great work the company is doing and how it'll fix everything. Not once does the company ever seem to consider that the problems its seeing in its colonies are the result of misery, overcrowding, and gakky living conditions that it casually creates and enforces.

No. The company's solution isn't to ask 'are we the baddies' but to say 'no, it's the humans who are wrong.'

I saw it this weekend and to be honest I still think Prometheus is the better followup to Alien.

 warhead01 wrote:
I got to see it today! To quote a good friend of mine, Holy Cats!

There's so much set detail to see I couldn't take my eyes off. The suspense was very strong, I don't like suspense very much so this really gets he hart beating! I have nothing bad to say. We're eager to buy this on dvd.

I loved the mining planet. It smacked me in the face that it's a company planet, like a company town. Which made it so bleak and horrible. Fantastic.
And the soundtrack/score what ever it's called. Perfect.

My hopes for the future now include a comic accurate AVP movie, if we could ever get so lucky. But what I really want is another movie set in this universe similar to Outlands. A good police story/mystery with a company researcher. We do have a few questions I'd love to have answered with another movie.

Spoiler:

How did they get the black goo ?

Hope we get to find out. I look forward to seeing this movie again in a few months.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I saw it this weekend and to be honest I still think Prometheus is the better followup to Alien.

Spoiler:

Romulus is... OK. It's a competently made film, but I feel like it does absolutely nothing original. I hate it when soft reboots go out of their way to recreate iconic moments from earlier in the franchise. Sitting up the half-ruined android to ask it questions, Rain slowly getting into the pressure suit at the end, 'I prefer the term artificial lifeform myself', 'get away from her you bitch' - this is the laziest form of fan service imaginable. I understand what you're doing, but tickling at my memberberries isn't gonna make me like your movie. You have to do something actually novel, and Romulus falls completely flat here. The only sort of cool thing they did that we haven't seen before in the franchise was the zero G acid bloodbath, and even that was still pretty dumb.

Prometheus, for all its faults, at least tries to do something different with the Alien mythos. It explores entirely new themes and asks different questions whilst still giving you a glimpse of the same world. It's far more original than Romulus and so gets a lot more credit from me.

I guess I just want something different from general audiences though, considering how positive the reception to Romulus is. I'll brace myself for more empty fan service coming my way in future instalments.

Honestly, I liked Romulus because it didn't go for the Hail Mary. It knew what it was...a grounded, back-to-basics Alien film, and it crushed it in that respect. Prometheus was the opposite, aiming high with a grander vision and bigger themes...but it was uneven and missed the mark in some ways because it went so big. I feel like there's room for both approaches.

I could rant about everything wrong with Prometheus, but I won't bother.

I think, at the end of the day, Prometheus' biggest problem is that it was advertised and offered as a new entry in the Alien mythos (yes. yes it was. I don't care that Scott danced around it, the sheer amount of dancing around the question was a downright admission), and instead it was an overwrought metaphor aspiring to grandeur beyond the Alien movie the audience wanted to see.

People went for a movie related to creepy rape penis monster.

They got a whole lot of uneven religious metaphors, something something getting what you want might not be what you really wanted, and ended with a big anvil about parental abandonment that left you asking 'wtf did I just watch?'

EDIT: But Prometheus was still an overwrought movie with too much aspiration and too little substance.

The best thing to happen to Prometheus was Covenant, because Prometheus was flawed, but Covenant was dog gak terrible.

I do wonder what people would make of Prometheus if it was Just A Science Fiction Movie.

On Romulus? Beyond trailers, I wasn’t aware of particularly intensive attempts to big it up. And that approach worked beautifully for Prey (which for me came out of the blue with a stunning “OH WOW!” trailer), and the lack of paid-for hype with Romulus came as refreshing.

There are many times where I sit down and ask myself "if this media hadn't been connected to a previous franchise the audience has expectations of, would it have faced the problems it did?"

To which I feel very much that yes. If it hadn't been a Star Trek movie, the JJ Abrams movies probably would be more fondly regarded (not Into Darkness, that movie had issues).

Prometheus also might have done better had it been utterly unconnected from Alien and thus free of expectations or complications. But I'd still contend Prometheus has flaws beyond its relation to the Alien franchise that would always hold it back, but at the very least, people would have less of a reason to look down on it.

A movie that reached high and fell short can be a lot more charming than a movie that reached high, fell short, and wasted my time not being the movie I'd been led to expect.

Big chunk of Prometheus’ problem for me is I didn’t feel I had reason to empathise with or otherwise root for the characters. And because the protean black goo was so protean, the tension felt off.

And in a series which works so heavily based on personal stakes and empathy for the heroes? That was a bloody big misstep.

Aliens arguably goes out of its way to make the Colonial Marines feel unlikable. Hudson and Vasquez in particular start off as meatheads, but when the brown stuff hits the rotating thing, we are rooting for the squad. Even Gorman.

Prometheus? Oh look. That bloke over there is dead now. Who was he again? Wait, wasn’t he a geologist or summat?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do agree on your last comment. As anyone who’s been bored to tears reading my drivel will know, I always give points for trying. Which is why I’ll always champion Resurrection.

Not quite the sum of its parts, sadly. But it tried new stuff, and didn’t take a massive poop on what came before.

Prometheus and Covenant did however dump on the other films. Most notably we’ve still no explanation of how the Space Jockey’s ship ended up on LV426, filled full of Xenomorph eggs. In fact worse? We’re now left wondering “why did that Space Jockey look nowt like the others, and how come it fossilised super quickly?” Because accordingly to the in-universe timeline I found?

Prometheus occurs in 2093. At this point, still no Xenomorphs.

Convenant occurs in 2104, so 11 years later.

Alien? 2122.

So in 18 years, at least one Engineer (our Space Jockey) has caught up with C-Creepio, the Alien Queen has evolved, and it’s been able to harvest enough Eggs to fill its hold, get a Very Special Hug, stack it onto LV-426, and get fossilised.

How? How does any of that work?

The Colonial Marines are are wonderful case study imo in how to endear characters to an audience. Like yeah.

Is Hudson kind of an ass? Yes. But he's also basically the class clown so even though he's a douche at times, you kind of like him and it only grows as the movie goes on.

Is Vasquez kind of a bitch? Yeah, but she's got her bash bros relationship with Drake and her girl-friendship with the pilot lady.

Apon's entire mannerism became an icon, with later characters like Johnson from Halo being inspired by the performance.

Even Goreman is ultimately a guy you grow to respect, despite his screw up at a few points.

Most of these characters are only given a few lines. It's their attire and mannerisms together that do a lot of endearing them to the audience in an extremely short period of time. And yeah. Prometheus could have learned something from that, because its colorful cast of characters are grayer than gray, or off puttingly unlikable. The sheer frequency with which they behave incoherently just to move the plot along doesn't help.

Compare Gorman to Halloway for example.

Gorman; inexperienced officer with little practical experience. Tries to command 'by the numbers' as he was likely trained only to end up way in over his head with many of his marines killed. He rapidly makes up for this, rolling with the punches and not making a fuss or excuses afterward and then shows his bravery when he goes back for Vasquez. It helps that even at the start of the movie, Gorman is humbled to the audience at several turns with signs that he's putting up a front and not as all together as he wants to appear. He's just a guy trying to do his job and not look like a fool in front of his soldiers. He's relatable even when he's being unlikable.

Halloway; belittles people at most turns, intentionally or otherwise. Takes off his helmet for no reason just because he can. Gets pissy when he finds almost everything he wanted in the first place. By the time he dies in a selfless sacrifice, not only does it leave little impact because the man was an ass, but you could blame his death entirely on himself since he was an ass to David, and very easily could have been infected by his generally reckless behavior.

Gorman fethed up to, but Gorman's feth up is relatable because he was in over his head and he didn't proceed to make excuses for his mistakes. And I mean, we've all had that manager in like who is all 'by the rules' and he annoys us, but then he has our back when it matters so we forgive those times he annoyed us.

Halloway is just a fething dick.

Gorman works for me because, with the arguable exception of Ripley? They’re all in way, way over their heads.

And so that’s the leveller for him and his newly appointed squad. Further more we do see him rise to that. He doesn’t bawl anyone out. He doesn’t point fingers. Instead he does what he can to get some measure of situation control in place, working with his squad. In fact, thinking on it? Maybe their piss taking of Gorman is just them busting his balls because he lacks combat experience, and them being a clearly veteran unit. I mean, they’re kinda hostile, sure. But he’s not part of their brotherhood - yet. And importantly to the best of my memory, he doesn’t put anyone in needless danger, or cause avoidable losses.

Also he listens to Ripley, which to me is the sign of a competent manager/commander, as opposed to “but I am has training, I are knows best”.

As you said, the Marines earn our interest and investment in their attempts at survival. The crew of the Prometheus? I still couldn’t tell you one from another. Mostly because I can barely watch it, but also because too many characters, all seemingly interchangeable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Romulus does get me caring though.

Not quite enough for the guy that can’t grow a beard and may have made smoking weed his entire personality. But the rest I all felt for.

I like Prometheus for the technical aspects and would still recommend it with caveats. The problem holding Prometheus, and Covenant, back is that the characters were stupid or made no sense. If you look at the greats the characters tend to, at the very least, be competent. In The Thing (OG or John Carpenter) their actions make sense. The same is true for Alien and Aliens. In Prometheus you had a geologist spelunker with advanced cave mapping equipment getting lost by walking around and a biologist going upto a completely unknown species and going "pspspspsps". Putting characters in over their head makes for good drama but having non entities acting idiotic for the sake of plot will always be a detriment.

Romulus deftly avoids that.

The way the characters find stuff out feels organic, and they make decisions based on information they have.

Even down to slightly silly stuff, like the aim assist Pulse Rifle.

Now that item of course explains how a bunch of Civvies could possibly be a match for the most pants fillingly terrifying beasty known to man. Which is one thing.

But, the context in which that item is introduced really helps. Because it’s not standard military issue. But something held in a lab. Studying highly dangerous organisms. Staffed by scientists. Who would need all the help they can get - and I dare say the reassurance you don’t have to be Rambo to be useful in a fight should things go horribly wrong would actively increase their survival chances by reducing panic.

And so a “well that’s convenient, isn’t it?” and slightly silly item is given in-universe context and explanation. Importantly, it also lets our unlucky spods be spods, and not instant butt kickers.

Now I’m sure not everyone will find that to their taste, and as ever fair enough. But it is an example of how a little bit of thought about the situations you want to put the characters in can be survived. And that’s something we see a lot in Romulus. Care and attention to detail.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Romulus deftly avoids that.

The way the characters find stuff out feels organic, and they make decisions based on information they have.

Even down to slightly silly stuff, like the aim assist Pulse Rifle.

Now that item of course explains how a bunch of Civvies could possibly be a match for the most pants fillingly terrifying beasty known to man. Which is one thing.

But, the context in which that item is introduced really helps. Because it’s not standard military issue. But something held in a lab. Studying highly dangerous organisms. Staffed by scientists. Who would need all the help they can get - and I dare say the reassurance you don’t have to be Rambo to be useful in a fight should things go horribly wrong would actively increase their survival chances by reducing panic.

And so a “well that’s convenient, isn’t it?” and slightly silly item is given in-universe context and explanation. Importantly, it also lets our unlucky spods be spods, and not instant butt kickers.

Now I’m sure not everyone will find that to their taste, and as ever fair enough. But it is an example of how a little bit of thought about the situations you want to put the characters in can be survived. And that’s something we see a lot in Romulus. Care and attention to detail.

Interesting stuff about that the AA variant of the rifle (it's really a later model. The one in Aliens is the M41A. There are a bunch of variants of just the 41 model), The F44AA appears to run on similar but more limited tech as he M56 Smartgun used by Vasquez and Drake.. That big mechanical arm helping them hold the large "Smart Gun" works similar to that little piston thing and the targeting bit they put over their eye is synced to cameras on their helmet.The user CAN control the gun entirely guiding it to specific targets. But they are supposed to hold it and let the arm guide them. All they do is pull the trigger.

According to the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual this is really hit or miss. Some marines swear by it's accuracy and think it's creepy as hell. A whole rebel base camp wiped out every single one of them had one large entry wound center of their chest. Others think they are pieces of gak. Tiny grain of sand gets in the arm and all the sub systems you are hauling around to make it work is just dead weight.

But yeah. The military might not be using the absolute bleeding edge top of the line rifle as standard. But Weyland Yutani's own lab and mercenary forces would be equiped however WY wants them to be. It's not like they need to buy their own supply.

Funny enough, I saw Prometheus without any real expectations regarding the franchise it was riding the coattails of. Afterwards I assumed that lack of familiarity left me feeling like I was missing something, but having come around again from the beginning its just kind of a fumbling film.

First off, its an ancient aliens story at a time when that idea was already pretty played out and never really got buy in from the public in the first place. It also doesn't really seem to know what it wants to say about the idea. The film opens with an alien killing himself for no apparent reason creating life and earth and ends with this world threatening crisis because one woke up and needs to kill everything with the weapon that created everything and what exactly is the point of this?

The goo itself is just a huge problem and I'm sad to hear it continues to return. It's just too much of a "whatever the plot needs to happen" juice and lacks any sort of coherent function to make it interesting. It makes whatever the plot decides it wants to, whether that's Xenomorphs or Engineerish things or just all life on Earth except when it kills everything. More than anything else, this seems to be the thing that embodies how utterly disposable Prometheus would be if it wasn't riding on the back of a couple movies with a wildly more effective world design.

Romulus puts an interesting spin on the black goo






Automatically Appended Next Post:
And in reply to Lance?

I figured the AA Pulse Rifles were a more basic model than the ones we see in Aliens?

 LunarSol wrote:
The film opens with an alien killing himself for no apparent reason creating life and earth and ends with this world threatening crisis because one woke up and needs to kill everything with the weapon that created everything and what exactly is the point of this?

There is a deleted scene of Engineer dialogue, or just a part of the script was cut and only storyboarded, wherein the freshly awoken Engineer :

revealed that the Engineers created the human race but were disappointed with their creation because humans made wars and killed each other, calling them a "barbaric violent species."[5] He mentioned a "mother's child" being taken to Paradise to be taught the meaning of life and creation in order to educate the human race in Eden (i.e. Earth), but the humans decided to punish him. This hints at the history of Jesus.[6]

With that little tidbit removed, the motivation of the Engineer is never stated and the question of why they wanted to kill humanity was left with Shaw to figure out in the next movie. And in that next movie, she was killed offscreen and the question of the Engineers seemingly abandoned.

Probably for the best, as the Alien franchise is best as just a survival horror(imo) and the larger question of "why is this happening" is left unexplored.

 nels1031 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The film opens with an alien killing himself for no apparent reason creating life and earth and ends with this world threatening crisis because one woke up and needs to kill everything with the weapon that created everything and what exactly is the point of this?

There is a deleted scene of Engineer dialogue, or just a part of the script was cut and only storyboarded, wherein the freshly awoken Engineer :

revealed that the Engineers created the human race but were disappointed with their creation because humans made wars and killed each other, calling them a "barbaric violent species."[5] He mentioned a "mother's child" being taken to Paradise to be taught the meaning of life and creation in order to educate the human race in Eden (i.e. Earth), but the humans decided to punish him. This hints at the history of Jesus.[6]

With that little tidbit removed, the motivation of the Engineer is never stated and the question of why they wanted to kill humanity was left with Shaw to figure out in the next movie. And in that next movie, she was killed offscreen and the question of the Engineers seemingly abandoned.

Probably for the best, as the Alien franchise is best as just a survival horror(imo) and the larger question of "why is this happening" is left unexplored.

I originally was going to go into this but cut it from the post to make it a little less rambly than it already is. This is kind of what I'm talking about. Even knowing the why, its not actually interesting. Had the dialogue not been cut it really doesn't improve the film. It's basically the plot of Halo or any of a dozen other ancient alien plots running around at the time and its not even a particularly interesting one. I love me some cryptic films but the problem with Prometheus isn't a matter of lack of exposition, its a lack of human connection.

Ultimately, everything is Prometheus is detached. The crew barely seem to like each other and none of them seem particularly invested in their jobs either. It doesn't feel like they do anything for any real reason and then the goo comes in and does vaguely evil things to them but not in a way that unsettles. I can't even tell if the movie is trying to be scary, but there's no other emotion it tries to envoke. The monster at the end is focused on one of those threasts too large in scale to get invested in.

It's just not terribly interesting. If you'd somehow never come across the idea that what we call god is actually aliens.... honestly there's still a million more compelling takes on that, many of which were released in the decade prior. There's dozens of "humans bad and should all die" plots of the era, but most of them have a cast you care enough about to remember. Prometheus is just lacking an emotion throughline to anchor a plot that isn't nearly as groundbreaking as it seems to think it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Romulus puts an interesting spin on the black goo

Spoiler:

Essentially? Weyland Yutani has come to find mankind just isn’t very well suited to settling new planets.

Differing atmospheric conditions, novel diseases with no clear treatment running rampant, mining leaving people with cancer etc.

But it sees the Black Goo as a potential solution. A way for Mankind to evolve itself to taste, and rapidly so. A way to make us more resilient and better suited to turning up to a new planet and colonising it.

Now, does that suddenly make the Black Goo super duper cool and awesome? Not entirely, no. But it does give some very welcome context to Weyland Yutani’s seeming obsession with the Xenomorph, and creates a more stable bridge between the proper films and the prequels.

It's an improvement, but doesn't really solve the issue of it just not really being a very compelling plot device. It just kind of acts as magic plot device juice and thus far there hasn't really been any sense of it actually being useful. Like, whatever they think it COULD do doesn't really matter when all it actually seems to do is make people explode into monsters that kill everyone. It's also just kind of odd as its no where near as compelling as the original, iconic lifecycle of the xenomorphs. What does the goo add exactly?

If they want to go the human evolution route they need a movie with that as a central theme rather than an explanation. A test colony where everyone mutates or like the next generation is all Genestolens or something. This isn't really hate on Romulus. The movie by and large gets it right; I just don't like the goo and need to see it given some consistent properties before it stops feeling like its an interesting addition to the franchise.

nels1031 wrote:Probably for the best, as the Alien franchise is best as just a survival horror(imo) and the larger question of "why is this happening" is left unexplored.

For the best they cut that bit too honestly.

It makes the plot 1000% stupider.

"You're too violent and barbaric, so we're going to murder you all with brutal body horror bioweapons. How dare you kill Jesus. Come on! We dropped one guy in one corner of your whole planet who never went more than 50 miles from where he was born and you killed him? The whole lot of you are a waste, but especially the Moche and the Chinese for not believing Jesus! This will show you! Also you can find us at these coordinates. We know you can't get there so just wait and suck it primates!"

It's so fething dumb... Actually it's so fething dumb it almost crosses into comedy so maybe the movie would have been better? Don't know. Don't care. I agree that the ancient aliens plot was played out and basically a bad joke before the movie even released. All the themes about religion, creation, abandonment etc, largely fell flat and didn't help anyone take the movie seriously despite its aspirations.

LunarSol wrote:The goo itself is just a huge problem and I'm sad to hear it continues to return.

I'd argue the movie kind of redeems the concept, or at least uses it for something that actually makes sense instead of being so cryptically mysterious about I couldn't care less.

Romulus actually takes several ideas from more maligned Aliens films and kind of makes them work.

 LordofHats wrote:

LunarSol wrote:The goo itself is just a huge problem and I'm sad to hear it continues to return.

I'd argue the movie kind of redeems the concept, or at least uses it for something that actually makes sense instead of being so cryptically mysterious about I couldn't care less.

Romulus actually takes several ideas from more maligned Aliens films and kind of makes them work.

I think it helps that they went a route that in no way requires and would probably be improved without the existence of the Prometheus variation. Harvesting facehugger seed for its ability to adapt to the host DNA is an all around solid idea. There's definitely directions they can go with it from there that haven't really worked before.

The space jocky could have been freeze dried within a few days if the spaceship had a slow air leak (a direct pop the hatches would probably be too fast but might still be ok given the suit he was in had a big hole in it) and the life support was off so the ship got cold which would be plausible, it could even have landed on some sort of autopilot

how that fits with whatever might have come up in Promethius/Covenant I couldn't tell you as i've very little memory of my single viewings of either bar dissapointment

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

And in reply to Lance?

I figured the AA Pulse Rifles were a more basic model than the ones we see in Aliens?

Spoiler:

In Aliens, the Marines’ fire power goes through Xenomorphs like a hot knife through butter. And that’s likely due to military issue ammo, which is explosive tipped.

In Romulus? The Xenomorphs take way more hits before they go down.

Of course there are other perfectly valid rationales. First and foremost? Armour piercing explosive tipped bolts are not Mr Orbital Station’s friend. Second and speculative? Perhaps Weyland Yutani ensured Colonial Marines packed them for that mission, hoping they’d be able to take out the mature Xenomorphs and the Queen, allowing the Company to nip up and snaffle up the remaining eggs?

There are others but they’re quite fully formed in my brain.

Yeah I would say thats down to ammunition. The marines are equiped with, as you say, armor piercing explosive tipped caseless rounds that on an orbital station might just be suicidal. It's more the tracking system going from a full torso rig and sights mounted on a helmet to a little IR screen and a automated stock is an interesting example of technology becoming smaller and more compact through iteration.

Also, Romulus builds its new bits of the world nicely.

For instance, when we’re kicking about Jackson’s Star at the beginning? We find out all sorts of useful info, including the problems mankind is facing as it leaves its birth rock. But rather than the colonists being all hand wringing and “won’t someone think of the children”? They just seem relegated to accepting it.

Weyland-Yutani’s work quotas and “yeah well we just doubled it, get wrecked” paints them as callous and uncaring.

We find out there are non-Company settlements. And it’s hinted that they might be less awful. Though one is put in mind of folk leaving Europe for the New World a few centuries back quite possibly regretting that decision!

And then as we’re about to enter the third act? The Black Goo is reintroduced as a potential panacea for Weyland-Yutani’s ills. A way to rapidly adapt colonists to whichever hellish environment they need adapting to.

On one hand? That’s a pretty noble goal (and a very 40K one, see Leagues of Votann), a warm light for all mankind to let us explore ever more extreme environs.

On the other? There’s no way Weyland-Yutani would use that responsibly or ethically. We’ve seen them perfectly happy to just up someone’s work quota. And it’s presented as being really bloody difficult to get off world, because sure you might have a ship, but cryopods are rare and highly regulated, so getting anywhere is just a death sentence. Hence The Company have all the power. Now, extend that to “well those adaptations we provided aren’t free you know, this is you work quote for that, your work quota for transport, and your work quota for bed and board. Oh and that genetic tinkering? Sorry that was a one way thing, and oh no, how, erm, utterly unforeseeable, it seems you’re no longer particularly able to live outside of this specific world’s environment oh deary me what a shame and a pity never mind in fact speaking of mined go get those minerals for us, pleb”

You know, the goo experiments are almost at the wrong point in the timeline, aren't they?

Alien Resurrection had the piss off and train the xenomorphs subplot- but the far more useful one was the idea of creating a humanoid alien superhybrid. Clone Ripley was a huge success- had the process been perfected, you'd have hyperdurable supersoldiers for colonization. Something that could alter a living host, without the need to start from scratch would be preferable to the hassle of making a clone of your colonists. And if these clone colonists could peacefully coexist with the xenomorph, there's your colony security problem sorted. In that context, and at that point in the timeline, the goo would be a great idea to pursue for research.

I think that’s pre-empted in Resurrection, as they explain to all intents and purposes? Ripely was an extinction level event for the Xenomorphs.

Mind you, a deleted scene confirms Weyland-Yutani was bought out, I think by Walmart (I swear I’ve not made that up).

So it could be their original interest was the Black Goo. But, by the time of Resurrection the peeps behind cloning Ripley had lost sight of that?

 LordofHats wrote:
There are many times where I sit down and ask myself "if this media hadn't been connected to a previous franchise the audience has expectations of, would it have faced the problems it did?"

To which I feel very much that yes. If it hadn't been a Star Trek movie, the JJ Abrams movies probably would be more fondly regarded (not Into Darkness, that movie had issues).

Prometheus also might have done better had it been utterly unconnected from Alien and thus free of expectations or complications. But I'd still contend Prometheus has flaws beyond its relation to the Alien franchise that would always hold it back, but at the very least, people would have less of a reason to look down on it.

A movie that reached high and fell short can be a lot more charming than a movie that reached high, fell short, and wasted my time not being the movie I'd been led to expect.

Not sure if you've read the original script for Prometheus by Jon Spaihts, back when it was titled "Alien: Engineers". It's a fascinating read just to see what changed, what morphed, and weirdly what didn't change.

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-9NMTSgzvy2U3U-oz/Alien-Engineers-ORIGINAL-PROMETHEUS-SCRIPT_djvu.txt

Been a while for me, but IIRC the planet was LV-426, the alien ship was THE ship, etc. Basically it's a more direct prequel to Alien, which seems so much easier and cleaner. I'm not the sort who wants or needs "here's how Han got his blaster" prequel stories, but in this case I think it was a better approach even if the script needed some polishing.

I think Damon Lindelof had a hand in polishing the final Prometheus script, and that explains some of the...inscrutable...aspects. I feel like he's prone to overindulging in that stuff (see The Leftovers). Although it's not like Scott is immune to piling on anime-style inscrutable story points and semi-religious metaphors. Just look at Raised By Wolves.

Romulus mostly succeeds because as some of our chit chat here shows? Where Prometheus left people asking “what the hell was that all about?”, Romulus has us considering wider lore impact, and how its, for the most part if not exactly exclusively, deepened the lore, and even shone a new light on motivations behind events to come in chronological terms.

I really want a sequel or spin off!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh those sods! Seems Marvel is doing a tie-in prequel comic in October, bridging events between Alien and Alien Romulus.

Guess that’s going in the basket in due course.

 gorgon wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
There are many times where I sit down and ask myself "if this media hadn't been connected to a previous franchise the audience has expectations of, would it have faced the problems it did?"

To which I feel very much that yes. If it hadn't been a Star Trek movie, the JJ Abrams movies probably would be more fondly regarded (not Into Darkness, that movie had issues).

Prometheus also might have done better had it been utterly unconnected from Alien and thus free of expectations or complications. But I'd still contend Prometheus has flaws beyond its relation to the Alien franchise that would always hold it back, but at the very least, people would have less of a reason to look down on it.

A movie that reached high and fell short can be a lot more charming than a movie that reached high, fell short, and wasted my time not being the movie I'd been led to expect.

Not sure if you've read the original script for Prometheus by Jon Spaihts, back when it was titled "Alien: Engineers". It's a fascinating read just to see what changed, what morphed, and weirdly what didn't change.

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-9NMTSgzvy2U3U-oz/Alien-Engineers-ORIGINAL-PROMETHEUS-SCRIPT_djvu.txt

Been a while for me, but IIRC the planet was LV-426, the alien ship was THE ship, etc. Basically it's a more direct prequel to Alien, which seems so much easier and cleaner. I'm not the sort who wants or needs "here's how Han got his blaster" prequel stories, but in this case I think it was a better approach even if the script needed some polishing.

I think Damon Lindelof had a hand in polishing the final Prometheus script, and that explains some of the...inscrutable...aspects. I feel like he's prone to overindulging in that stuff (see The Leftovers). Although it's not like Scott is immune to piling on anime-style inscrutable story points and semi-religious metaphors. Just look at Raised By Wolves.

Yeah I've read about it. Found it interesting how many plot elements stayed in Prometheus.

Honestly 'Engineers' sounds like it would have been a more enjoyable movie.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Oh those sods! Seems Marvel is doing a tie-in prequel comic in October, bridging events between Alien and Alien Romulus.

Guess that’s going in the basket in due course.

Tangentially, if you haven’t, you should check out Marvel’s recent Predator runs. Largely centered around a person trying to hunt down a specific one who killed her family. Begins with Predator (2022).

Oh nice! I’ve a reasonable selection of the Dark Horse TPBs, and could definitely be persuaded to follow the modern stuff.