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I could see PDF being a Unit entry in the guard codex - just like Cultists compared to traitor guardsmen are in the CSM Codex right now.
The argument about size of a faction to me is always a strange one when many factions in the background would outnumber all of SM chapters and Custodes combined - and this goes for pdf on most planets as well. Would they need their own book? Probably not.

But what should a PDF unit be? An Infantry Squad unit with worse BS, worse guns, worse Leadership and/or worse Save?

That would firmly defined PDF as being cheap crap.

You can build a perfectly reasonable PDF force out of the current army list. It might not be great, but it will work:

3x Platoon command
6x20 Catachans (forward light infantry)
6x20 Infantry (entrenched infantry)
3 HWS
2 Field Ordnance Batteries
Kurov's Aquila to represent use of the local terrain or something.

It's a ton of bodies that can sit on objectives while the indirect fire keeps the enemy honest. It allows you to play desperate holding action.

Yeah it ends up a little bit like Skaven Slaves in Old World - which also shared the same model*. You've either the same role as the Guardsman unit has now or a worse profile where the unit is basically just chaff/filler.


Meanwhile a PDF specialist unit would end up just being similar to the Catachans or other single world named units.




*I think there was a slave model for a time, but it was solid metal so basically not practical. Eventually it was just a metal sling for the slingers upgrade option

GW has also moved past simply using BS and WS to map how "skilled" a unit is. Maybe in the past when there was a bit wider of a spread, but right now Guardsmens are one tick of BS worse at shooting than an Aspect warrior. So, I think you need to look at the whole package. The detachment rules and strategems matter!

It'd be easy to make conscripts/PDF a WS/BS 5+ chaff model, but how is it any different from what guard currently have? there's a lower limit, point wise, beyond which simply being a model in space has a value beyond stats. For most chaff units, any reduction in offensive power is trivial.

PDF should be in Codex: Imperial Agents, representing the locals that have been seconded.

I don't think a separate list or unit is needed for PDF. Returning conscripts to the list covers the range of capabilities from 2nd line fodder to elite, but otherwise the Guard codex is going to cover the exact same spectrum found in the vast majority of PDFs. Because generally Guard are recruited in the same manner as or from the actual PDF. The differences between PDFs and Guard are not something that is going to be visible, most of the time, at the 40k battle scale. They will have a greater impact at strategic and operational levels.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

PDFs have actually had rules in 2 separate lists in 3rd- firstly for the Armageddon PDF, which was a restricted Imperial Guard list that could take hive gang militia units but had to take enclosed crew compartments on open-topped vehicles

I'm assuming you're referring to C: Armageddon, which I don't own to confirm. Lexicanum however says that it is the "Armageddon Steel Legion" army list...and the Steel Legion are Guard Regiments.

Yes, Codex: Armageddon. It has three pages discussing Armageddon regiments and what army lists to use to represent them. Tithed regiments use the Codex: Imperial Guard infantry company list, Ork hunter regiments use the Codex: Catachans Deathworld veterans list, planetary defence force regiments use the Codex: Imperial Guard list with some restrictions and an extra unit, and there are rules for mechanised infantry which is based on the Codex: Imperial Guard list with some restrictions + all Chimeras. Tithed or PDF forces can be mechanised, but a mechanised PDF can't take militia units.

Spoiler:

So again, not a singular "Planetary Defence Force" list...just a list of how to do a "counts as". Got it.

Obviously not a "singular" list, it is specifically a list for Armageddon PDF fighting on Armageddon in the 3rd War for Armageddon. It could be used for other hive world PDFs readily but you wouldn't expect to find hive gang militia on a feral world or agri world for obvious reasons...

As for "counts as" No, this was an official list. It just so happens that the PDF on Armageddon (like most PDFs) uses units largely the same as their tithed counterparts. Armageddon PDF uses command platoons and infantry platoons and Chimeras and Leman Russes etc. They also sometimes recruit hive gang militia, a unit unique to this (supposedly counts-as) list that couldn't be taken in any other official list*. They couldn't take abhumans or rough riders, because these are not native to Armageddon and therefore not typically attached to PDF units, and likewise couldn't take Leman Russ variants not produced on Armageddon (like Exterminators or Vanquishers) and had to use enclosed crew compartments on sentinels and artillery. This isn't the same list as the Imperial Guard infantry company list from Codex: Imperial Guard, it is a distinct list that happens to use most of the same units. Similar to how, say, the 3rd edition Blood Angels codex is a distinct list from Codex: Space Marines, but uses most of the same units (and for which you needed to have both books to use). It doesn't stop being rules representation for a PDF army list just because you don't like it or it isn't generic outside Armageddon (or maybe hive worlds).

Essentially, PDF are the same as Guard in their basic structure. At a planetary level, they tend to be less diverse because they are only drawn from a single world, but the units in the Imperial Guard codex covered them well.

and secondly the Cadian defences forces which were probably some of the highest-quality PDF forces in the Imperium and indistinguishable from the tithed Cadian regiments chosen by lottery.

And where exactly does that come from?

Because if it's Eye of Terror? Nope. Semantically, you're correct but the army list was Cadian Shock Troops. With a specific mention of how the Interior Guard were regiments stationed on world, and the existence of no Planetary Defence Force as a separate entity.

I apologise, I misremembered this one. The list is indeed Cadian Shock Troops. The part about the defense forces is in the lore earlier in the book. Although it explicitly states that the Interior Guard is the Cadian planetary defense force.

Ehhh...it says "a planetary defence force".

More on that in a moment!

Plus we have a lot of lore info from codices and unit entries that tell us more about PDFs relative to Guard units, such as tithed units often being taken from the elite of the PDF to ensure high enough quality to pass the tithe requirement (and avoid execution on the part of the Planetary Governor), or low-mobility heavy equipment like Sabre platforms or field artillery being used by PDFs more often than by Guard units that are more likely to have mechanised options like Hydra tanks or Griffons.

We also have a lot of lore info from codices and unit entries that tell us the opposite.

Right, it isn't consistent and no one is claiming it is. 40k always has exceptions and unusual scenarios, a lot like real life in that regard. Obviously there are very good and/or well-equipped PDF formations (like the mechanised Armageddon pdf mentioned above) or even entire PDFs (with Cadia being the archetypical example of this).

There's a consistency, in that there is no consistency except what the plot requires.

The other real consistency is that "PDF", the capitalized Planetary Defence Force version, is what we're supposed to expect each planet to have at the insistence of the High Lords.

Cadia WAS supposed to be special in the regard that they didn't bother with a PDF, since the planet was too important and thus the Interior Guard postings.

It's supposed to be a big, big, big deal for a world to feature Guard Regiments posted on them.

Are you really hanging an argument on whether the term planetary defence force is capitalised? Cadia has an Imperial Commander (alternate term for a planetary governor). They have a duty to maintain a PDF. We are told one tenth of Cadian soldiery, chosen by lottery, remains on the planet as this PDF. It has a local name of the Interior Guard, and is of the same high quality as Cadian regiments in general. This isn't complicated, and is consistent with how tithed vs PDF regiments are described in sources from the same period (Codex: Armageddon and Codex: Imperial Guard (3rd edition, 2nd codex)).

But on the whole we are told that PDFs are usually worse quality with worse gear than Guard units drawn from the same world.

We really aren't told that anymore though.

Like I said earlier:
PDF keeps being used interchangeably with Guard Regiment when it comes to armories and the like, when Brood Brothers are involved. We're getting more lore about the corruption of the organization than the organization itself.

Just think on that for a moment.

I think modern GW lore frequently being terrible doesn't mean the PDF as a concept has stopped existing, unless GW goes out of its way to say so.

It also isn't that weird. Many Guard regiments are recruited in an identical way to the PDF of the planet they are from or directly from the existing PDF. There is no meaningful distinction between the two, except we are told the better quality units tend to be tithed for the (very logical) reason that the planetary governor would rather not be executed for a substandard tithe, and that the Departmento Munitorum typically provides extra training en route and may supply specialist or alternative equipment to the tithed regiment.



*Hive gang militia did also appear in an experimental Chapter Approved cityfight veterans Imperial Guard list, the unit is identical except they corrected some errors like "heavy plasma gun" being switched to "plasma cannon".

At the scale 40k operates, I think PDF are very low on the food chain, if not the lowest.

I mean Guard are very low - but they are going to have better training, better equipment better morale and better organisation. Maybe on certain planets the differences can be smudged for story reasons - but overwhelmingly its going to apply.

Its like an elite regiment versus a run of the mill bordering on Dad's Army one - which doesn't translate so well "today", because most Western armies are all small and therefore "all elite", but does in say the World Wars, when you had millions under arms.

Whether this is worth abstracting in 40k is however questionable. You could have a unit that's say WS5+/BS5+, only gets OC if led by a character etc. You could somehow try to show that autoguns are actually worse than lasguns (how? S2? Have them run out of ammo on a 4+ each turn?)

This feels however like something you'd want for your very low-scale home-brewed RP-led campaign though, rather than adding anything for the game as a game.

Tyel wrote:
At the scale 40k operates, I think PDF are very low on the food chain, if not the lowest.

I mean Guard are very low - but they are going to have better training, better equipment better morale and better organisation. Maybe on certain planets the differences can be smudged for story reasons - but overwhelmingly its going to apply.

Its like an elite regiment versus a run of the mill bordering on Dad's Army one - which doesn't translate so well "today", because most Western armies are all small and therefore "all elite", but does in say the World Wars, when you had millions under arms.

Whether this is worth abstracting in 40k is however questionable. You could have a unit that's say WS5+/BS5+, only gets OC if led by a character etc. You could somehow try to show that autoguns are actually worse than lasguns (how? S2? Have them run out of ammo on a 4+ each turn?)

This feels however like something you'd want for your very low-scale home-brewed RP-led campaign though, rather than adding anything for the game as a game.

Autoguns aren't worse than lasguns in a firefight though. They are worse logistically due to not having rechargeable ammo and laspacks hold a lot of shots and lasguns are very reliable with very limited parts that receive wear compared to an autogun. But those differences mean nothing in a 40k game and are less of an issue for PDF units fighting on home turf with short supply lines (and PDF units often use lasguns too).

Really, if you reintroduce a conscript unit to the Guard list you cover poor-quality troops, which a PDF is more likely to have. That is the BS/WS 5+ big blob unit.

However a lot of PDF units will perform more or less as well as an equivalent Guard unit in a firefight (discounting veterans). A 40k game is basically a single firefight or two, it isn't large scale manoeuvres where the poorer average troop quality, gear, and logistics is going to make a noticeable difference on aggregate. When it comes down to it, a 40k game portrays a very small part of warfare in the 41st millennium. A lot of warfare factors can only really be expressed in a campaign too, not a single battle. 40k is also not particularly granular in many regards.

TL;DR, PDF units tend to be worse, but not dramatically worse than equivalent Guard ones, and 40k doesn't display these small differences well enough for it to matter.

Autoguns also have the disadvantages that they don't have variable settings and that it is harder to fire bullets than lasers.

But such disadvantages are probably also not within the scope of 40k TT.

Again, we need to consider the intent and purpose of a PDF.

They’re not expected or required to take down top level threats, such as an Ork Waaagh!, Hive Fleet Invasion or a Black Crusade.

They are however expected to see off opportunistic attacks, regardless of the source. And where things get a bit more heated, to at least hold the line until relief forces arrive in-system.

And in terms of their perceived effectiveness? We almost exclusively see a perspective where they’ve been holding said line. Because when you don’t need external reinforcement, because you contained and eliminated a threat? Few external persons are going to know, or care.

Yes an Inquisitor will be keeping tabs (probably more than one if we’re honest), if only to get a better handle on emerging and ongoing threats, and for signs of lax Governorship.

But a lens such as Cain or other competent Guard Leaders just aren’t going to come across competent PDF, because there’s no need to deploy the forces they command or attached to to a planet where there’s nothing and no-one in need of a good kicking. And so we fall into the logical trap that all PDF must be a laughing stock, because that’s the only PDF’s we as readers are really exposed to.

A further thought is Imperial Propaganda undermine proper readiness. As a “real world” source, consider the Imperial Infantryman’s Uplifting Primer, which tells massive great lies about the various threats out there.

Now, your Guard regiment’s initial survivors will soon realise the threats are far more significant. But a PDF? As covered, they just tend to lack valuable combat experience. That doesn’t mean they’re incompetent, just singularly unprepared due to Imperial Propaganda.

And when we consider casualty rates among the Guard proper? Is it any surprise a PDF would suffer similar losses?

If your world or system is one of a bunch of secure Imperial Systems, there’s also complacency to worry about. From a Governors perspective, if your neighbours are well armed and comparatively close by, why should you overly worry about your forces being top notch? But, equally, such a situation could cause a level of paranoia that They might turn jealous eyes to your world or system, and so promote a better funded than most PDF and SDF.

And who is leading the PDF? Sometimes it’s local nobility who are as much use as a chocolate teapot. Others will use Guard Veterans. And we know Guard Veterans are not all equal. It’s entirely possible for a Regiment to spend its time fighting but one foe, such as Orks. Others, like Cain’s Valhallans have a wide experience. So officers from those examples will have different strengths and knowledge to impart on the PDF under their command.

Thus I don’t think we can fairly paint the PDF with a single brush here.

Also aside from skill and equipment there's also numbers.

Many worlds are likely not in a situation where they need to maintain a massive PDF all the time. So chances are one thing the Guard brings is simply weight of numbers. Machines, equipment, ammo and bodies.

So you can have a really well equipped, experienced and trained PDF; but if the world hasn't got reason to maintain a massive PDF then they are just going to get out-numbered by a large invading force.

And even if you need too you might not have the money/resources/bodies locally to be able to mount a big PDF.

This is especially true when you combine issues of the propaganda and lack of education and lack of experience when fighting actual Xenos or Chaos forces. If you've never fought against such forces chances are even if you are very well prepared; you are going to lack the understanding to make effective choices.

If you've no idea about synapse or "shoot the big ones" you're going to waste shots shooting gaunts instead of shooting warriors. This can be a tricky thing for us to appreciate because we are immersed in a general level of setting lore

Even the "shoot the big one" is a generalization that most often that not can lead to bad decisions.

A dozen or two lasguns firing at a warrior at long range are not a threat to it and are better spend on the hormagaunts that are closer.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


But a lens such as Cain or other competent Guard Leaders just aren’t going to come across competent PDF, because there’s no need to deploy the forces they command or attached to to a planet where there’s nothing and no-one in need of a good kicking. And so we fall into the logical trap that all PDF must be a laughing stock, because that’s the only PDF’s we as readers are really exposed to.

There are several competent PDFs in the Cain series and Cain is very happy to point out when he rates a PDF as being decent and well run.

A good example is the PDF on Adumbria, which Cain praises as above average.

In one of the books Cain almost entirely fights alongside PDF forces with Jurgen as the only guardsmen present. The Perlian PDF forces make a very good accounting of themselves. However, Cain specifically notes how the Perlian PDF is gutted and loses a lot of quality by the time he returns to the world decades later (due to all the well trained and veteran units being tithed off into the Guard as emergency tithes to counter the Tyranid incursions).

Meanwhile the PDF on Gravalax were fairly poor ().

I actually think the Cain series is good for showing a spectrum of PDF capabilities.

the best way to handle a PDF force is to paint your cadians a different color (since the armor style is fairly agnostic to a "realistic modern" military), and limit what kinds of tanks you have available. in terms of army rules, there wouldn't be any sort of meaningful major different between guard orders and whatever they have going on


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also the talk about "GSC are basically just guard" is really funny. showing off an aberrant and saying, "behold, an ogryn"

All the extra arms that can rend through adamantium are just blessings from the Four Armed Emperor.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
the best way to handle a PDF force is to paint your cadians a different color (since the armor style is fairly agnostic to a "realistic modern" military), and limit what kinds of tanks you have available. in terms of army rules, there wouldn't be any sort of meaningful major different between guard orders and whatever they have going on


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also the talk about "GSC are basically just guard" is really funny. showing off an aberrant and saying, "behold, an ogryn"

Pretty much this.

You may also choose to limit the fancier weapons, such as Plasma and Melta for similar thematic reasons.

In terms of tanks? I’d want to avoid stuff not based on the Russ or Chimera chassis. Keep it all to relatively basic feeling stuff. So also excluding the fancier Russ turret variants.

But that’s just me and my head canon, which is for a reasonably well funded and equipped PDF. It is by no means the only possible interpretation

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
the best way to handle a PDF force is to paint your cadians a different color (since the armor style is fairly agnostic to a "realistic modern" military), and limit what kinds of tanks you have available. in terms of army rules, there wouldn't be any sort of meaningful major different between guard orders and whatever they have going on


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also the talk about "GSC are basically just guard" is really funny. showing off an aberrant and saying, "behold, an ogryn"

Pretty much this.

You may also choose to limit the fancier weapons, such as Plasma and Melta for similar thematic reasons.

In terms of tanks? I’d want to avoid stuff not based on the Russ or Chimera chassis. Keep it all to relatively basic feeling stuff. So also excluding the fancier Russ turret variants.

But that’s just me and my head canon, which is for a reasonably well funded and equipped PDF. It is by no means the only possible interpretation

That latter aspect is very contextual. If your PDF was from a planet near Ryza, they might have a lot more plasma gear. From near Stygies and Leman Russ Vanquishers may be more common etc.

Again, comes down to the lore of a given force

Is melta actually all that rare?

Rare is subjective 🤣🤣

I think for my basic infantry squads, I’d keep them with “low level” weapons, saving the fancier stuff for Grenadiers. So I would have Melta and Plasma, but I wouldn’t want it prevalent.

Part of that is a head canon that unlike the Guard, PDF regiments may be limited term. I mean sure, you can retire from the Guard, but given the amount of action anyone surviving that long is comparatively rare.

So I can see a PDF having fairly standard infantry recruits of young men and women, to teach them discipline. But, it’s not a lifelong career. Maybe serve 15-20 years then it’s back to civvy street. This would (again, only in my head!) ensure a healthy, revolving stock of active forces, and a pretty significant reserve who can be pressed back into combat if things go horribly wrong.

And so, you may not want folks familiar with the “best” weapons just kicking about. Whereas special forces may be a lifetime career, and so they’re the ones entrusted with the snackiest shooters.

It also helps your PDF be more resilient to internal revolt.

Just a head canon though, so everyone feel free to ignore my demented wibblings.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Rare is subjective 🤣🤣

I think for my basic infantry squads, I’d keep them with “low level” weapons, saving the fancier stuff for Grenadiers. So I would have Melta and Plasma, but I wouldn’t want it prevalent.

Part of that is a head canon that unlike the Guard, PDF regiments may be limited term. I mean sure, you can retire from the Guard, but given the amount of action anyone surviving that long is comparatively rare.

So I can see a PDF having fairly standard infantry recruits of young men and women, to teach them discipline. But, it’s not a lifelong career. Maybe serve 15-20 years then it’s back to civvy street. This would (again, only in my head!) ensure a healthy, revolving stock of active forces, and a pretty significant reserve who can be pressed back into combat if things go horribly wrong.

And so, you may not want folks familiar with the “best” weapons just kicking about. Whereas special forces may be a lifetime career, and so they’re the ones entrusted with the snackiest shooters.

It also helps your PDF be more resilient to internal revolt.

Just a head canon though, so everyone feel free to ignore my demented wibblings.

I think that is all very reasonable.

I more just meant is melta every actually described as rare? Plasma is, but I don't recall seeing the same for meltas.

It’s more the training in the proper use and application.

PDF, probably more than most Imperial Forces, I see as fighting from established positions for the most part. And so, the very short ranged nature of a Meltagun just isn’t needed, as you’d have some kind of ranged anti-vehicle weapons in play.

But, for raiding forces/grenadiers who are trained to go a-hunting, I think they make more sense, as portability over range may be a greater consideration.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s more the training in the proper use and application.

PDF, probably more than most Imperial Forces, I see as fighting from established positions for the most part. And so, the very short ranged nature of a Meltagun just isn’t needed, as you’d have some kind of ranged anti-vehicle weapons in play.

But, for raiding forces/grenadiers who are trained to go a-hunting, I think they make more sense, as portability over range may be a greater consideration.

Ah, I see what you mean. More of a doctrinal rarity than a material one. That is fair. I can see meltas being much more common for PDFs that typically operate in dense terrain, like jungle worlds.

Yeah, that’s the right words I couldn’t find 🤣🤣

And in case of TL/DR? Still just my own head canon.

The Imperium is basically feudal. I recall lots of examples where the military structure includes a "royal guard" portion that provides security to the planetary governor, which will be kitted out absolutely up the wazoo if the governor wants to last longer than 5 minutes. at one end of the scale there will be feral planets with the governor living in space with household guard probably brought in from other planets. At the other end of the scale there is Necromunda where the planetary military assets will include Guard regiments in the process of being raised and trained, others permanently stationed on garrison duty, specialist Schola, Household Guard, Enforcers of different stripes all the way down to Gang militias.

Then there is the general PDF structure, which may then have further breakdown between a smaller number of specialists and a larger group of mooks. Kit and training for this group will be so variable between planets as to be difficult to discuss even generally

You know? I think the one thing a PDF would lack that makes the wider Guard such an effective fighting force?

Specialisation.

Most PDF are unlikely to have Super Heavy Tanks. Not only are they comparatively rare and presumably expensive to maintain? I’m fairly certain they’d be rapidly requisitioned into passing Guard regiments.

Likewise, whilst you will have some mix of armour, artillery and infantry, you wouldn’t necessarily have dedicated Artillery Companies let alone Regiments. Rather you be Jack of all trades, Master of None.

Now as said, that’s all fine and dandy against most threats. There’s a lot to be said for a combined arms generalist force. But it does limit your options for sieges, line breaking/shattering etc.

Compare that to those examples in the novels when a Guard regiment is lucky enough to be assigned to its specialised theatre of war. As ever I’ll stick with Cain’s 597th Valhallans.

They’re a super competent veteran regiment with notable experience of fighting Orks (cultural because Valhalla) and Tyranids (through action, where they were bloodied but unbowed). But? Deploy them to an Ice World or Polar Region equivalent environment and they really do come into their own.

And so, in said preferred environs against Orks and Tyranids, they’re naturally going to outperform the local PDF, as they would many other less experienced or specialised Guard units.

But that’s still not to say the PDF are therefore incompetent. Just less experienced and arguably less prepared.

I think I fundamentally disagree with that MDG

While superheavies may indeed be thin on the ground on any world, I don’t see why PDF forces might lack specialisms. If the Earth is anything to go by, Planets are not single biome monoliths.

Similarly, I see no reason why LDF forces would be limited to light infantry when towed artillery, heavy weapon companies, recon, cavalry (wheeled, tracked, airborne or legged) AA and other specialisms would be easily achieved, even with minimal vehicle assets. Just think of all the cold hard effective and entertainingly quaint armed forces experiments that have occurred even in the last century, from bicycle mounted to bats armed with napalm.

I mean the British Army has polar specialists in case we need to go help out Norway, probably extensive desert and arid environment from Afghanistan and urban fighting going back through Iraq to Northern Ireland.

And our army is tiny.

I figure the PDF would have lots of specialists for their own world though GW tends to do the same thing a LOT of sci-fi series do which is simply any non-earth world to one mega-biome or at least one mega dominant one unless they are going really in-depth with the world.


But that aside I'd wager local specialists would be a boon of a PDF that the Imperial Guard won't have. A local force knows the population; knows the terrain; the quirks of their own world and more.

What they lack is likely the understanding of their enemy and weight of numbers.



Ergo I'd wager they sit somewhere between British and USA armies today in size relative to population. Meanwhile the 40K world needs armies relative to population closer to WW1 and 2 (and honestly even more extreme). Again hitting that issue that many PDF are not likely geared up for a big sustained war against a very large invading force. They can leverage all their advantages to hold the line, but need reinforcement. Also lets pause and consider invading forces likely bring weight of weaponary and numbers that many worlds, even if they were almost entirely conscripted, likely can't tackle alone. Like sieging a castle, any major attacking force has to have vast weight of numbers to sustain an assault. So any break of a siege is likely going to need outside help to counter that sheer weight of numbers.

Then again, it isn't as if the average Imperial Guard Regiment has a lot of experience with how quickly attrition eats through them.

 Flinty wrote:
I think I fundamentally disagree with that MDG

While superheavies may indeed be thin on the ground on any world, I don’t see why PDF forces might lack specialisms. If the Earth is anything to go by, Planets are not single biome monoliths.

Similarly, I see no reason why LDF forces would be limited to light infantry when towed artillery, heavy weapon companies, recon, cavalry (wheeled, tracked, airborne or legged) AA and other specialisms would be easily achieved, even with minimal vehicle assets. Just think of all the cold hard effective and entertainingly quaint armed forces experiments that have occurred even in the last century, from bicycle mounted to bats armed with napalm.

I mean the British Army has polar specialists in case we need to go help out Norway, probably extensive desert and arid environment from Afghanistan and urban fighting going back through Iraq to Northern Ireland.

And our army is tiny.

Oh they’d have training in different environs. At least, you’d hope they would.

But it wouldn’t compare to a regiment founded and raised from an Ice World in Polar Operations. Those Guardsmen would already know how to best survive in that particular hostile environment, because that’s the lessons of many, many generations ingrained into their society. And so there’s a chunk of training they just don’t need delivered, allowing them to adapt standard combat doctrine by applying generational lived experience. And the same for Deathworld, Hive, Desert and other non-varied biome worlds. And so, compared to troops from Earth-like worlds, such regiments will have a real head start in their preferred environment.

Could a PDF have Super Heavy units? I guess. But they are rare within the Guard, and there seems little point letting them languish on a world “just in case” when active Regiments could put them to better and more regular use. But of course within the Imperium there’ll be exceptions to every rule. But, I’d still argue they’re going to lack Super Heavy companies/regiments.

I think they’d otherwise have pretty standard, if comparatively basic model, Imperial assets, and depending on the world, even mothballed relic stuff, so it wouldn’t necessarily be static or towed artillery - though as they’d have their prepared positions and bastions, static weapons may still be there in good numbers alongside towed or self propelled. Leman Russ and Demolishers over the Plasma armed version etc.

But that line of argument implies that the Scandinavian and Canadian armed forces are entirely ignorant of the equivalent conditions on their home planet. As noted above, its the problem of lumping an entire planet into a single biome type.

I agree that Ice World regiments wouldn't need any extra training to drop into that environment, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the PDF trolls lack that experience. It comes down to where PDF garrisons are posted, and where the planetary populations are based.

Equipment wise, one of the reasons I like Abnetts stuff is that he always shows local equipment deviations and home-grown patterns of vehicles, particularly for Chaos forces, which would be more reliant on local patterns, rather than the Guard standardised stuff.

I also thought that the descriptions in the Cain book Death or Glory were great. The governor is responsible for holding the planet, and in this case made good plans with lots of equipment caches and stockpiles scattered around to enable PDF units to fight on regardless of where an attack came in. Its analagous to the massive Soviet stockpiles.

The biggest problem well organised governors probably have is when the Guard come tithing and nick half their stockpiled kit.
I liked the comment above implying that we only really hear the stories where the PDF has failed, because otherwise the Guard don't even need to be called