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I wouldn't be surprised if things like the Space Marine Scouts, Blades of Khaine, and Inquisitorial Agents boxes all get taken out of Kill Team and reboxed into regular boxes. We've already seen the Inquisitorial Agents put into a normal 40k-style box.

It'll help trim a bit of the bloat down while also prepping those things for regular 40k boxes. I'm fully expecting Scouts and Striking Scorpions to be reboxed into boxes of 5 models each.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/06/kill-team-managing-the-range-of-kill-teams-in-the-new-edition/

Set rotation coming to a miniatures game near you!

I applaud GW for the transparency on this, it still gives me the ice but it's better than the surprise of having your stuff invalidated 2 years down the line without warning.

so the season model is now not just scenarios but also teams
something similar as there was with Blood Bowl

but at least they don't remove it on day 1 but keep them the first year around

chaos0xomega wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/06/kill-team-managing-the-range-of-kill-teams-in-the-new-edition/

Set rotation coming to a miniatures game near you!

I applaud GW for the transparency on this, it still gives me the ice but it's better than the surprise of having your stuff invalidated 2 years down the line without warning.

Seems sensible, we're at 33 teams now? Can't be balancing 60 teams by the time next edition rolls around. And I'm honestly fine with wargames shifting slightly towards a "subscription" type experience where things can end and make room for new things without bloating beyond any manageable proportions.

chaos0xomega wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/06/kill-team-managing-the-range-of-kill-teams-in-the-new-edition/

Set rotation coming to a miniatures game near you!

I applaud GW for the transparency on this, it still gives me the ice but it's better than the surprise of having your stuff invalidated 2 years down the line without warning.

This sort of planned obsolescence is terrible. They've ensured that I will never touch this game and will be wary of purchasing GW miniatures in general.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Seems sensible, we're at 33 teams now? Can't be balancing 60 teams by the time next edition rolls around. And I'm honestly fine with wargames shifting slightly towards a "subscription" type experience where things can end and make room for new things without bloating beyond any manageable proportions.

only problem here is that "you can still play them" does not really work out of balance is not given and people hesitate to allow house rules or "Legends" in the first place

Sounds a lot like legends. Just more open about the timing.

I don't see this as obsolescence. It only applies to a specific subset of tournaments, so probably just a fraction of the player base (who will probably by happy that understanding their meta
becomes somewhat managable).

All teams getting rules and updates for the next 4 (?) years? It just means my and my group's KT gaming is safe and sound for a looong time. Classified doesn't affect us one bit.


As for Angels of Death. I assume this is Intercession renamed. Do you think it means GW plans to broaden the range of options there to allow non-Intercessor Astartes?

 kodos wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Seems sensible, we're at 33 teams now? Can't be balancing 60 teams by the time next edition rolls around. And I'm honestly fine with wargames shifting slightly towards a "subscription" type experience where things can end and make room for new things without bloating beyond any manageable proportions.

only problem here is that "you can still play them" does not really work out of balance is not given and people hesitate to allow house rules or "Legends" in the first place

Difference is they are still getting balance updates though.

It seems pretty reasonable to me. Except for the bit where it basically codifies a new edition every three years.

But 3 seasons per edition, every team is valid for tournament play for 4 seasons, which means every team has rules for two editions. And continues to get updates until the end of it's second edition.

Which means everything is valid for tournament play for 3-4 years. Everything gets rules for 4-6 years. That seems fine for a box that is £35. It'd be different if we were doing this with full armies that can easily cost £1000 but for every nearly every team, worst case is two boxes if you want to build every unit. It seems fairly reasonable to me that after 3-4 years the ask is to buy another box of ten figures to keep playing.

(I mean we're at the point where the cost of things like the new rules and generic equipment and stuff is a bigger factor than having to buy a new team)

Thing is if this is only tournament play I couldn't give a monkeys.

Well it does also confirm that when the next next edition comes out (KT2027 after three seasons) then the KT2021 teams won't get rules.

 kodos wrote:
so the season model is now not just scenarios but also teams
something similar as there was with Blood Bowl

but at least they don't remove it on day 1 but keep them the first year around

Haha, can you imagine GW removing BB teams? I bet they have considered it. Wonder if the fact the game is mostly run by others in terms of tournies and clubs has stopped that. Certainly surprising they tolerated all the legends team rules being out there while they had no models for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Seems sensible, we're at 33 teams now? Can't be balancing 60 teams by the time next edition rolls around. And I'm honestly fine with wargames shifting slightly towards a "subscription" type experience where things can end and make room for new things without bloating beyond any manageable proportions.

If I am a tourny gamer? Sure.

If I am a 'normal'/casual player, which in my experience most KT players were in local clubs. Pretty awful. Already have some dropping out as there easy to play compendium team is going. This just adds to that. MtG players are happy to only be able to use cards for a year or two. Wargamers despite GWs best efforts tend to be a bit more attached to the guys they had to paint. I suspect this announcement will stop a bunch more continuing with it.

They have done that with the re-release (as season model with not all teams being allowed each season) and there is a reason why the "official" version was not really replacing the community version that way

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Wargamers despite GWs best efforts tend to be a bit more attached to the guys they had to paint. I suspect this announcement will stop a bunch more continuing with it.

Well, if it's time for a Kill Team to go, just build a 40k army around it. Then you can still play them and have even more models to paint and to be attached to.

Exactly what a miniatures war game needs, planned obsolescence.

They can't remotely shut down your models like video game companies are doing tho

You can always play your 2021 era Kill Teams against each other, just maybe not against a 2026 team

We are once again seeing this strange dichotomy in players saying they don't care about tournament play but at the same time not wanting to play anything that isn't legal for tournament play

I'll get some heat for this, but 2-4 years of being able to play the game off a single £40ish box and free rules? It's hardly unreasonable. Let's face it how many people are sat on a single kill team they bought years ago and are going to be squatted out the tounament scene *next year* but are upset now?

It's not just balance, it's also design space. Every game runs into this: there are only so many subtle variations on a theme you can have.

It's just the harsh reality of minis games: to make new rules they need to sell stuff, new stuff sells by far the most, and sometimes the best new thing to sell is a replacement for an old thing you sell. Yes, there are games that keep endlessly expansive rosters going forward with rules, but most games, especially ones built around tighter balance, struggle beyond a certain scope.

Rules for a mini game are like the wifi in a coffee shop. I expect it for a while after I buy something, but if I never buy anything more, I can't expect to keep getting it for free.

But having cheap (normally existing armies) simple to play teams (in this case the compendium) in existence has pretty much been half my KT games to date. Casual players happy to have a game using their models. Not interested to go and buy something to play. They don't help GWs profits, but they kept me playing and buying. If my opponents dry up, so do my purchases and we all go and play whatever people fancy now.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
But having cheap (normally existing armies) simple to play teams (in this case the compendium) in existence has pretty much been half my KT games to date. Casual players happy to have a game using their models. Not interested to go and buy something to play. They don't help GWs profits, but they kept me playing and buying. If my opponents dry up, so do my purchases and we all go and play whatever people fancy now.

If you have multiple teams, lend yours to your opponent? If they enjoy playing the game with you, maybe they can support it with a purchase? Again, it's 1 box for 4 years of play.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 kodos wrote:
so the season model is now not just scenarios but also teams
something similar as there was with Blood Bowl

but at least they don't remove it on day 1 but keep them the first year around

Haha, can you imagine GW removing BB teams? I bet they have considered it. Wonder if the fact the game is mostly run by others in terms of tournies and clubs has stopped that. Certainly surprising they tolerated all the legends team rules being out there while they had no models for them.

There are already more KT teams than BB teams. They won't get rid of BB teams no. But they also won't create 8 new BB teams a year. That's the trade-off.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Seems sensible, we're at 33 teams now? Can't be balancing 60 teams by the time next edition rolls around. And I'm honestly fine with wargames shifting slightly towards a "subscription" type experience where things can end and make room for new things without bloating beyond any manageable proportions.

If I am a tourny gamer? Sure.

If I am a 'normal'/casual player, which in my experience most KT players were in local clubs. Pretty awful. Already have some dropping out as there easy to play compendium team is going. This just adds to that. MtG players are happy to only be able to use cards for a year or two. Wargamers despite GWs best efforts tend to be a bit more attached to the guys they had to paint. I suspect this announcement will stop a bunch more continuing with it.

IMO the real problem is that it's a one way street. There's no reason why a portion of the classified kill teams, say a quarter, can't be reserved for "reclassified" teams that had previously cycled out but are allowed to be cycled back in for a season. That means your legacy teams are never entirely defunct and will get a new lease on life every so often.

Totally agree. I mean the compendium teams were just a stop gap in the first place. If you haven't branched out in that time, more fool you.

chaos0xomega wrote:
IMO the real problem is that it's a one way street. There's no reason why a portion of the classified kill teams, say a quarter, can't be reserved for "reclassified" teams that had previously cycled out but are allowed to be cycled back in for a season. That means your legacy teams are never entirely defunct and will get a new lease on life every so often.

Sure, but I imagine the gap would need to be long enough to make re-issuing the kit financially worth it to GW.

Gellerpox and Starstriders have done a few cycles already, haven't they?

I barely managed to contain myself to one army in a given month and there are people out there who never branched beyond a single Kill Team? Damn, that's some intense willpower.

I just want GW to release a game and let people play it. I don't want to have to keep track of set rotations and errata and what's legal on any given day if I'm trying to get a pickup game.

 Prometheum5 wrote:
I just want GW to release a game and let people play it. I don't want to have to keep track of set rotations and errata and what's legal on any given day if I'm trying to get a pickup game.

The rotation is for comp play so you're good. Or in 1/2 editions time, far enough away from now for you to have that review.

People that don't play in tournaments don't need to worry about this rotation business.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
People that don't play in tournaments don't need to worry about this rotation business.

They do in an edition or two when they don't publish rules for the killteam at all.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
People that don't play in tournaments don't need to worry about this rotation business.

the honest truth is, GW has cultivated a competitive mindset in their game, so those PUG are all basically tournamnet practice for people.