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 Flinty wrote:
I don't mind the thunderwolf cavalry as such, but Father Grimnar's floating chariot to me just combines the worst possible parts of historic and futuristic combat design aesthetics.

Definitely agree with Centurions. That was a model concept that was really reaching for a purpose to exist. Aggressors did the job so much better (and also happen to look like Starcraft Marauders).

The Corvus is a close replica of the Starcraft Medevac dropship, and hence I am primed to find it satisfying, and none of your aquatic reptile shenanigans will shake this from me

Cents do pre-date aggressors, but I agree that the primaris replacement does a much better job.

I always viewed centurions as a poor mans’s terminator suit. We are told that TDA armor is rare and hard to make. Treasured relics of a better age. But what do new chapters do to fill the role? Or make to replace lost suits? That’s my headcannon.

From a modeling POV, I think you can leave some bits off to make them better. Still not a huge fan, I’ve had 3 in my primed pile for a while now…

#1 Thunder Wolf Cavalry- remains the dumbest unit in the game both in looks and in what it is. For the record, I was here before Thunderwolf Cav were a thing and full squads of Wolf Guard Terminators all with Assault cannons were the broken thing.

#2 Original Possessed- so bad they redid the models in record time. I think they were on the market for only a year or two.

#3 Wulfin- Almost as ugly as Possessed, but for some reason, they are still out there. Space wolves were so much better and cooler when they were space vikings, not these silly wolf caricatures.

#4 Centurions- Humpty Dumpty Marines on the fat boy program. They dont exactly embody the whole strike hard strike fast and get out mentality that marines are supposed to have.

#5 All the stupid Dinobots- literally all of them. I refuse to use them. Whoever came up with this concept of marines get tanks and chaos get Dinobots needs to be fired.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

I have the opposite opinion, Space Wolves are at their worst when they lean heavily into the wolf theme. Wolfy McWolfy Whatnow?

I mean, the concept of Viking Space Marines is awesome (as is some of the artwork), but the miniature line is awful and cartoony. Except for the flyer which is decent.

I think Horus Heresy wolves show how to do it. 40k wolves... well..

Im just going to leave this one here..

 Hellebore wrote:
Dumbest looking or dumbest concept?

In no particular order.

Dreadknight
thunderwolf cavalry
centurions

Very simple solutions that would have made these not so ridiculous:

instead of a marine, both the dreadknight and the centurions would have looked a lot better if they used dreadnought sarcophagi. Centurions would have been the answer to 'what happens when we've saved more veteran marines than we have dreadnoughts for' and the dreadknight is 'what happens when we need more power than a dreadnought for anti daemon shenanigans?'.

I've thought the same thing. Which is why I've tried to make slightly less derpy versions. I have to say, I think I succeeded.

Personally, whilst Marines are not my thing, I still don't get the Thunderwolf Cavalry hate. Names perhaps yeah; but the idea of giant wolves charging into battle with marines atop sounds 300% 40K madness.




*quietly hides tyranids in the corner before anyone points out daft Tyranid things*

If I collected Space Wolves, it would let me relive the halcyon He-Man days of my youth. Nothing like a burly man's man smashing the bad guys from a ever so angry fuzzy quadruped.

Although that might be part of the problem for others

 Flinty wrote:
If I collected Space Wolves, it would let me relive the halcyon He-Man days of my youth. Nothing like a burly man's man smashing the bad guys from a ever so angry fuzzy quadruped.

Although that might be part of the problem for others

There's not enough bare chests for He-Man inspiration in the Space Wolves.

 Nevelon wrote:


To be fair, the new ones are also bad. Just not as comically bad as the metal ones.

I have found the new ones considerably better than the old plastic ones.

How would you like a vehicle with the firepower of a Land Raider? without compromising on transport capacity
And it can also transport a Dreadnought?
Aaand it can fly.
Aaaaaaand it's more heavily armoured than a Rhino?
But don't worry, it's exclusive to Blood Angels and Grey Knights! (lolololol)

I never had an issue with Thunder, Thunder, THUNDERWOLF CAVALRY HO! I'm sorry if 8' tall super soldiers in power armor riding cyborg wolves into battle ain't your bag, what are you doing here?

May as well write a long missive on how impractical the armor design on a Leman Russ is!

But yes, from the era Santa Logan and Murder Face need pictures just to remind us all.

Word on the street is Santa Logan is back on foot with the next codex.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
How would you like a vehicle with the firepower of a Land Raider? without compromising on transport capacity
And it can also transport a Dreadnought?
Aaand it can fly.
Aaaaaaand it's more heavily armoured than a Rhino?
But don't worry, it's exclusive to Blood Angels and Grey Knights! (lolololol)

Eh it is basically a smaller Thunderhawk.

The real silly part is that Valkyries (and all their variants) are also more heavily armoured than a Rhino.

 Overread wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
adding to the already considerable frustration of the "oops I tipped over again" hormagaunts.

You don't get to make that claim unless you're playing with original metal hormagaunts

<eyes his hunter-slayers>
I actually found those metal hormagants less annoying, because at least their secondary spike arms would keep them from faceplanting. I had 3 that I always fielded as I liked the sculpts more (they came in blisters of 2 of course; the 4th hormagaunt I converted into an Alien, which was the style at the time).

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Not a bad unit, but a terrible model, the 2010s plastic commissar!

Options included a plasma pistol OR a bolt pistol!

This one was and is a bitch to paint. My 9th Commissar (attached) was so much better. Buy that.

Space Wolves are fine. People who complain about wolfy mcwolf wolf don't read anything beyond the names.

Centurions are probably my pick. I don't know about the ATV being the worst ("Fast Attack Vehicles" are a thing IRL), and I own several Primaris vehicles - they're a bitch to assemble, though.

I always thought that Mr. Murder Dreadnought should be painted brown an yellow or blue and yellow. It's essentially Wolverine in a 'mech suit.

Snikt, bub!

 RaptorusRex wrote:

Space Wolves are fine. People who complain about wolfy mcwolf wolf don't read anything beyond the names.

Please can you let me know how much fluff one needs to consume to make Wulfen miniatures look good? Or Murderfang (lol)? Or Santa Logan?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:

Space Wolves are fine. People who complain about wolfy mcwolf wolf don't read anything beyond the names.

Please can you let me know how much fluff one needs to consume to make Wulfen miniatures look good? Or Murderfang (lol)? Or Santa Logan?

At least 2 huskies worth of fluff.

However that's only the side order. In main you need a big dose of the 80s and 90s; possibly a little of the 70s thrown in for good measure.

 Overread wrote:
Personally, whilst Marines are not my thing, I still don't get the Thunderwolf Cavalry hate. Names perhaps yeah; but the idea of giant wolves charging into battle with marines atop sounds 300% 40K madness.

that's my feeling. what is 40k if not a deeply unserious game?

riding into battle on a giant wolf is as impractical as using a chainsaw sword

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Personally, whilst Marines are not my thing, I still don't get the Thunderwolf Cavalry hate. Names perhaps yeah; but the idea of giant wolves charging into battle with marines atop sounds 300% 40K madness.

that's my feeling. what is 40k if not a deeply unserious game?

riding into battle on a giant wolf is as impractical as using a chainsaw sword

Thunderwolf Cavalry isn't a bad name. Canis Wolfborn, though-that's a dumb one.

But I agree with the sentiment of Space Wolves being over-the-top and that's good for 40k.

For a more recent example, Snipers on Jetbikes.

I've not liked Space Wolves for around 30 years - but I'm still drawing a blank at how Thunderwolf Cavalry can be the dumbest thing in 40k. The grav-chariot is probably up there, but not exactly a common sight on tables. I don't think I've given Murderfang more than two moments of thought in years.

Don't really mind the Marine flyers either.

Centurions are probably a fairer observation. Model's aren't great and the concept seemed to define Marine bloat.

Tbh its a boring answer, but I hated the Dreadknight when it came out and I still do. I think its an ugly model and a stupid concept. It goes a long way to me hating the Grey Knights as a faction.

Tyel wrote:
I don't think I've given Murderfang more than two moments of thought in years.

I hadnt either - until the shop got a new SW player this fall.
Everytime I play him I have to deal with Fang & a unit of TWC.
Murderfang i dont really mind. Its just a dreadnoughtwith claws & a stupid name.
But the TWC.... I just don't like how they look. Never have. So they always become a priority target.

I must say Space Wolves are basically the only Space Marines I encountered so far and the players using them all like the Wolf stuff and I think it's okay, too. Wulfen are on the more goofy side of things, just like Mutilators, but Thunderwolf-cavalry is just everyday 40K to me, 40K is just that stupid so they never struck me as bad. Marines on wolves, yes of course. Just like Chaos should have their Marines on Juggernauts. Or sit on a palanquin.

Talking about goofy, the plaguecaster and Lord Felthius with their stupid faces I consider very bad. Giving Felthius a headswap is easy, but that caster is just aweful.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I never had an issue with Thunder, Thunder, THUNDERWOLF CAVALRY HO! I'm sorry if 8' tall super soldiers in power armor riding cyborg wolves into battle ain't your bag, what are you doing here?

May as well write a long missive on how impractical the armor design on a Leman Russ is!

But yes, from the era Santa Logan and Murder Face need pictures just to remind us all.

Word on the street is Santa Logan is back on foot with the next codex.

I don't have an issue with all the wolfy stuff as a concept (and while I originally hated it, these days I think Space Santa is perfectly 40K as a model!) ... I just dislike the execution. The thunderwolf models, and the wolves on Logan's chariot, are both horrendous sculpts.

Likewise, the main problem with Murderface the Murdery Dreadnought is the sculpting.

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Plus his... head is sticking out for some reason? Probably murder-related.

Well, he does kind of look like an older William Murderface.

I prefer Viking Space Wolves to Werewolf Space Wolves, for sure. I preferred it when the themes of the space marine chapters were a bit more subtle, but that time is 20 years ago by now.

Picking on Tyranids, the Pyrovore was a terrible unit. Ugly, expensive in money terms and also pretty useless on the battlefield.

Funnily enough, for a lot of factions I genuinely can't think of things I don't like...
There is no Ork model I think is really bad.
I like pretty much all the Tau range.
Eldar aren't my bag but both Craftworld and Dark Eldar do what they set out to do really well.
Tyranids have maybe one or two goofy models and that's it.
Necrons (at least Oldcrons which I prefer) are all great.
Imperial Guard has more clunkers (I don't like the Taurox and some of the vehicles look bad to me)
Space Marines are where they've really got the most bad concepts and models to me, Chaos and Imperial varieties.

But obviously, the core space marine idea is probably the best one in 40K, by far the most iconic design and really cool in background. I think that lead to them really exhausting the creative space for Marines and ending up with these stupid units because all the good ideas had been used up.

Ew, the Taurox, I think the only reason it hasn't been mentioned before is because people (read: me) forget it comes on those stupid tracks everyone immediately converts to wheels

mispost

Tyel wrote:
I've not liked Space Wolves for around 30 years - but I'm still drawing a blank at how Thunderwolf Cavalry can be the dumbest thing in 40k. The grav-chariot is probably up there, but not exactly a common sight on tables. I don't think I've given Murderfang more than two moments of thought in years.

Don't really mind the Marine flyers either.

Centurions are probably a fairer observation. Model's aren't great and the concept seemed to define Marine bloat.

Tbh its a boring answer, but I hated the Dreadknight when it came out and I still do. I think its an ugly model and a stupid concept. It goes a long way to me hating the Grey Knights as a faction.

I've played space wolves for 30 years and hated seeing my army deliberately flanderised down to wolfwolfywolfwolf over that time. The concept of riding wolves was never even a glimmer in the fluff until they literally appeared out of nowhere in 5th ed as a 'they've always had them' unit. Pet wolves had always been there, and yet somehow rather than the sensible 'grizzled veteran with his megawolf pet' unit idea, we got half tonne marines riding oversized canines who are biomechanically virtually unridable. Even a bear would have been easier to believe.

I was very close to building a counts as thunderwolf unit with marines and the wolf on the base side by side, but the continued deterioration of the army just left a sour taste in my mouth and I didn't bother.

In 2nd ed they had wolf guard, wolf lord, wolf scouts and wolf priest. 4 units with the word wolf in their name. I don't know if someone at GW decided it would be funny to ride that word even harder over the decades, or whether they just didn't care to try and find different words, but they certainly did no favours to the army.


Of the modern marines I'll echo others here - the mario cart and nerf gun rockets are terrible. The rockets especially look so badly put together like they were random bits stuck on a model. I'm also not a fan of the inceptor designs at all. And although the concept is naff, the suppressor autocannon unit actually designwise looks the least ridiculous of the inceptor designs. It's more coherent, they're holding the guns with two hands. The akimbo blaster with shield brick units though look really dumb.


EDIT: As for the wulfen, the concept had been around since 2nd ed, and I've no problem with the idea at all, they're space wolf death company effectively. But the current plastics are gak and I much prefer the more beastman influenced design of 3rd ed.