Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I understand that the internet is a visual medium, and that you want to draw people to watch what you do...

But when did: Watching attractive people paint models become a thing?

I've seen a lot of painting tutorials, but I've also come across pretty people happily painting models... and those seem to have a lot more views.

Since ever?

Natalya Melnik had painting dvds in the early 2000s and she wasn't the first to do something like that, she was just one of the first to monetize it via the internet.

Doesn't this is common for virtually any aspect of human activity? I mean, I'm a looking for welding tips and most viewed video with pretty pal/gal. Not the bearded guy with 40k years experience and skills. Looking for fishing gear/skill info same here. It's kind of psychological trick. Attractive people always got attention. And attention their main goal. Not hobby or anything.

I'd argue it’s somewhere between the rise of Instagram aesthetics and YouTube monetization strategies. Painting tutorials used to be grainy, glove-handed affairs with overhead lamps and zero facial features in sight. Then the algorithm gods decided: thumbnails with smiling faces and good lighting = engagement. I'd almost argue that Duncan was a big push toward polished videos that provided as much entertainment as it did tutorial. I enjoy watching videos that are well produced with good lighting and sound - I've watched so many tutorials by the off-camera guy that can't get his models into focus, there is an irritating buzzing noise, or he's got grit and dirt under his fingernails, and I get the ick. Is it annoying that charisma sometimes trumps brush control? Sure. But painting on camera is its own kind of performance. Some folks draw you in with elite technique, others with charm or presence. And if someone’s attractive and good with a brush, well... they’re just min-maxing the meta.

Honestly, the hobby is big enough for both the Bob Ross types and the influencer energy. If it gets more eyes on the hobby, more paint on sprues, and more energy around tabletop culture, I’m not too mad about it.

 Robert Facepalmer wrote:
Since ever?

Natalya Melnik had painting dvds in the early 2000s and she wasn't the first to do something like that, she was just one of the first to monetize it via the internet.

Yeah, Natalya (aka Alexi Z) was doing it early enough that she was selling DVDs rather than online videos, because YouTube and TikTok weren't even a thing yet.

Bob Ross did it.

 Gert wrote:
Bob Ross did it.

2 things.

1. Was Bob Ross on TV in the UK?

2. I saw a pretty blonde lady on twitch the other day who was just livestreaming her attractive self painting a model. There was no real instruction... just her painting and chatting.

It was strangely intriguing. From a purely scientific and uh... anthropological perspective, of course.

Edit: word change

The idea of watching a person doing a painting tutorial has been around since the idea of painting.

A lot of early painting videos were "dark grainy and mostly hands" because back then that's the best you could get unless you were working for a TV studio. You'd have 1 camera because that's all you could put on the feed; you'd likely pre-record; and you'd show your hands because that's what you were focusing on showing.

Being able to have more than one camera; good lighting and all those other things in part came with the march of technology and the cheapening of technology allowing people to afford it and setup.
Plus the rise of it as something that could earn money or aspired to earn money plus a larger online community to engage with even if you weren't after the money.


Basically goes for anyone. After that those that rise to the top might be attractive; well presented; good at teaching and skilled in their craft; just have good marketing skills and a bunch of other variables.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Bob Ross did it.

2 things.

1. Was Bob Ross on TV in the UK?

2. I saw a pretty blonde female on twitch the other day who was just livestreaming her attractive self painting a model. There was no real instruction... just her painting and chatting.

It was strangely intriguing. From a purely scientific and uh... anthropological perspective, of course.

There is country’s that Bob Ross wasn’t on TV at some point? I think he has been on in every country I have lived in at some point. I wonder if there is a list somewhere easy to find.

But I do watch and chat about painting on Twitch, it’s actually sorta like just having a group around a table but we are in different countries. I don’t even think being attractive is entirely a factor, as I see lots of guys doing just fine with a following who do the exact same thing.
It probably helps if you’re at least pleasant, able to hold a conversation and are able to talk to a camera at least a bit. Multiple camera angles are way more easy to do nowadays, at this point I can even have my iPhone and iPads streaming easy. So that has changed a lot.
Also Patreon and similar services mean it’s actually easier to monetise a small community safely and fairly means you can cover costs much better now as well.

Also you should probably change female to lady, it’s quite a strange way to use the word.

Bob Ross more or less invented it
Show, don't tell, do a little chatting (nice talking but not explaining or detailing out what you are doing) and look nice (enjoying what you are doing instead of fake smile etc) as people feel a better interaction and are more likely to watch if the see the happy face

most tutorial videos use the same format, be it painting, cooking or whatever else simply because it works
you don't need to see the detail of the work but the person doing it

early internet videos had 2 problems, one being the equippment to record it, the other the low bandwith on the user side
so getting as much details of the actual work on the video so that it would still work on low resolution without audio (most won't remember but removing the audio was common to save on file size until mp3 became a thing)

and for a time, this was still the common way to do it simply because everyone has done it that way until Bob Ross was re-discovered by a new generation (and became a meme) and again the template for tutorial videos and streams

For today, add in that certain content is pushed and without a clickbait title and/or tits on the thumbnail it is pretty hard to get the necessary views/clicks to be suggested to a wider audiance if you are new
same way it is almost impossible to make hobby content without mentioning Warhammer

 Apple fox wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Bob Ross did it.

2 things.

1. Was Bob Ross on TV in the UK?

2. I saw a pretty blonde female on twitch the other day who was just livestreaming her attractive self painting a model. There was no real instruction... just her painting and chatting.

It was strangely intriguing. From a purely scientific and uh... anthropological perspective, of course.

There is country’s that Bob Ross wasn’t on TV at some point? I think he has been on in every country I have lived in at some point. I wonder if there is a list somewhere easy to find.

But I do watch and chat about painting on Twitch, it’s actually sorta like just having a group around a table but we are in different countries. I don’t even think being attractive is entirely a factor, as I see lots of guys doing just fine with a following who do the exact same thing.
It probably helps if you’re at least pleasant, able to hold a conversation and are able to talk to a camera at least a bit. Multiple camera angles are way more easy to do nowadays, at this point I can even have my iPhone and iPads streaming easy. So that has changed a lot.
Also Patreon and similar services mean it’s actually easier to monetise a small community safely and fairly means you can cover costs much better now as well.

Also you should probably change female to lady, it’s quite a strange way to use the word.

You're right. Lady is a better word.

It's probably at least part of the reason Louise Sugden did so well at GW and then when she struck out on her own. If you don't look like the back end of a bus and have charisma on camera, its a visual medium and more people will watch it, it stands to reason. You can go back to the 1950s and pretty weather reporters for that one, at least..

And works for both sexes; hence Henry Cavill building a PC which has approximately 500 billion views, and I am going to take a bet that not all of those viewers wanted to see how to plug in a motherboard.

Wait till you find the one who always paints in a full-body spandex cosplay.

Wargaming is just catching up with the rest of the hobby world TBH.

What is nice to see is that there is far more positive response than negative, at least from what I've seen.

Go back even a few years and the responses would have been far more foul. For all the wider Warhammer community's flaws, I think its generally speaking a nicer place to be than in the past.

Wargaming did lag and I think honestly GW is part to blame for that.

A lot of historical games tended to have older generation audiences that weren't as keyed into the internet; meanwhile GW chose under Kirby to basically try and ignore and bully the internet.

So whilst video games, DnD, larping and a lot of other geeky things were riding a huge high of streaming events; competitive events and more - wargaming kind of had to do it on their own without a big firm nudging things.

Now it worked, even when GW went through their "send nasty letters to anyone who reports on a leak" phase. But GW didn't foster it at all. In fact its crazy since today they put out news every day of the year and have multiple channels and such - but back then GW was entirely against it.

So the hobby community had to grow it all on their own.


so yeah it took a little longer, but I'd say its certainly in a very good spot. The only bad thing is the universal same problem everyone else has which is the google algorithm's fondness for negative articles and how places like Youtube juggle presenting subscribed videos to subscribers. All of which can generally restrict the creative freedom of creators. That's honestly probably the biggest problem area right now - the fact that if you do wargaming hobby material, but you don't do a title with GW in it or a video on GW - your views can visibly tank by a huge amount because you don't get that super-fast click rate so YT drops showing your videos to your followers on their feed etc...

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Bob Ross did it.

2 things.

1. Was Bob Ross on TV in the UK?

2. I saw a pretty blonde lady on twitch the other day who was just livestreaming her attractive self painting a model. There was no real instruction... just her painting and chatting.

It was strangely intriguing. From a purely scientific and uh... anthropological perspective, of course.

Edit: word change

Rolf Harris was certainly on UK TV from about the 60s or so doing live art (alongside his terrible personal activities), while Ross apparently started in the early 80s. Harris was less on the instructional side, but Definately in the performative side.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Wait till you find the one who always paints in a full-body spandex cosplay.

The one with the Only Fans or the other one?

I prefer Goobertown because that dude takes the time to explain gak in detail. He did 2 or 3 slap-chop videos with variations and side-by-side comparisons that motivated me to get off my ass and put a dent in my Reaper Miniatures Bones kick starters.

Dude's like Brent will always be on my playlist because of the quality of their work, their tutorials, and his waxing philosophic videos. I can't say the same for Double D eye candy. Not that Brent isn't a handsome dude, too.


Edit:

 Gert wrote:
Bob Ross did it.

I lol'ed! Everyone's favorite Master Sergeant. But yes, to your point, people have been watching other people do hobbies like painting, refurnishing old end tables (the American Woodshop), and remodel old homes (This Old House with Bob Veela (sp?)) for decades.

Well, we’re hard wired to enjoy watching attractive people. And as nerds, wouldn’t you prefer to watch an attractive person interact with your hobby?

Don’t get me wrong, I still have standards in how the video is presented. I’ve nothing against Lady Lumps being the main draw as such. But when wanting to learn, I need the main focus to be the technique, and as GW’s videos have nailed, how they’re holding the brush, and how they’re applying the strokes. Yes I’m aware there’s inadvertent filth in that statement, never you mind it.

But let’s go right, right back to my beginning with WD and GW Boxes.

Oh, you got painting guides. And they used fancy technical terms, but they were lacking in detail. And so they were of limited educational value. Essentially it was

1. Undercoat
2. Basecoat
3. ?????????
4. Collect your Golden Demon

But…do me a video? Let me see exactly what you mean by say, drybrush, pin shade, desaturated, wet blending, and how one does it. That’s when your lesson is going to be most effective. Get a good camera angle for the model, with clear lighting. Ensure your paint recipe doesn’t involve too much mixing, and it all becomes much more accessible.

Then chuck in the likes of a good looking lass who may or may not be wearing terribly much and that’s just an audience attracting bonus.

It’s exactly the same reason newscasters and weather girls in particular tend to be easy on the eye. Basic human nature.

I think there are videos of "attractive people do something" out there for all genres.

Definitely. It’s a core element of being human.

It’s even proven attractive people are convicted less often, and get more lenient sentences.

I have trouble believing this thread was made in good faith.

 Ahtman wrote:
I have trouble believing this thread was made in good faith.

I don’t.

What’s the bad faith on Lathe’s part?

 kodos wrote:
Bob Ross more or less invented it.

There were a few others before Bob Ross, such as William 'Bill' Alexander's 'The Magic of Oil Painting' (1974-1982)

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
I have trouble believing this thread was made in good faith.

I don’t.

What’s the bad faith on Lathe’s part?

Based on previous posts and their content I don't believe he doesn't understand the concept of people watching attractive people do things nor that he just recently discovered this thing that has been happening for a long time. "Has anyone else noticed this 'breathing oxygen exhaling carbon dioxide trend?"

 Ahtman wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
I have trouble believing this thread was made in good faith.

I don’t.

What’s the bad faith on Lathe’s part?

Based on previous posts and their content I don't believe he doesn't understand the concept of people watching attractive people do things nor that he just recently discovered this thing that has been happening for a long time. "Has anyone else noticed this 'breathing oxygen exhaling carbon dioxide trend?"

People can be shockingly unobservant.
And even if Lathe is exaggerating a bit... I wouldn't accuse him of posting in bad faith just for that.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
I have trouble believing this thread was made in good faith.

I don’t.

What’s the bad faith on Lathe’s part?

Based on previous posts and their content I don't believe he doesn't understand the concept of people watching attractive people do things nor that he just recently discovered this thing that has been happening for a long time. "Has anyone else noticed this 'breathing oxygen exhaling carbon dioxide trend?"

People can be shockingly unobservant.
And even if Lathe is exaggerating a bit... I wouldn't accuse him of posting in bad faith just for that.

Yeah. There might be a little exaggeration there, but the question is sound.

I never remembered there being entire live streams of lads & ladies sitting there and painting. No instructions, no assistance, just chatting and painting.

It seemed very odd that the hobby and birthed this internet experience.

I must be in the minority here, but I have absolutely no desire to watch someone paint, no matter how attractive they are. If I'm watching a painting tutorial, I don't want to see your face. I want a close up shot of the thing you're painting.

I've never watched anything on twitch or any such thing, but on the occasions I view youtube tutorials the ones I steer towards are the ones where I'm watching somesone's hands. And unless you're talking about what it is you're currently painting (i.e - paints used, techniques, etc.) I do not want to hear your voice.

 Snrub wrote:
I must be in the minority here, but I have absolutely no desire to watch someone paint, no matter how attractive they are. If I'm watching a painting tutorial, I don't want to see your face. I want a close up shot of the thing you're painting.

99.99999999% of the time that I have a "person painting a plastic thing" video on, I am at work, absolutely not painting, but wishing dearly that I was at home, painting.

Of the channels that I prefer, the vast majority are like this. . . It's a person, you might see hands and hear a voice, but never see their face. There's one lady that comes up on my youtube suggestions who does 40k, and she does do the "attractive person talking the hobby and painting" . . . who also advertises certain other channels that she is part of. The thing I will say about this particular person is, it's quite clear that they are a Real Fan, and she's clearly been around the hobby for a long, long time and still has a passion for it, which is honestly the thing I care about when watching a video on a hobby subject, not "how good" they look (especially since one of the youtubers I routinely watch at work, Harry Houdini Models, who's an ancient Australian pensioner and likely not what most people would consider an extremely good looking person, but again, that's not what I look for in a youtuber)

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
I have trouble believing this thread was made in good faith.

I don’t.

What’s the bad faith on Lathe’s part?

Based on previous posts and their content I don't believe he doesn't understand the concept of people watching attractive people do things nor that he just recently discovered this thing that has been happening for a long time. "Has anyone else noticed this 'breathing oxygen exhaling carbon dioxide trend?"

People can be shockingly unobservant.
And even if Lathe is exaggerating a bit... I wouldn't accuse him of posting in bad faith just for that.

And yet I would because I don't believe that he is being unobservant, in this instance. I don't think it is in malice but I do think the pretense of being a babe in the woods is less than honest, or as Lathe coyly says above "There might be a little exaggeration there". I think it is a subject he does want to have a discussion about but chose a less than sincere way to generate that conversation. Either way this goes wildly off topic and there isn't much more one can mine this particular line so I will be moving on from it.

As for something more on the subject I couldn't think of anything that really fit but then I remembered Hobby Night. When I originally came across the channel it was primarily focused on hobby news and painting projects but slowly morphed into what Lathe seems to be describing with the youtube channel seemingly at this point being an advertisement for their OnlyFans page that is described as "Hobby Night after Dark", which I'm not really sure what that content is. Topless painting? Other more industrious activities? I have nothing against the endeavor but once they stopped doing news regularly, and I had no interest in paid "adult hobby" content I moved on. Wish them all the best but it just wasn't what I was there for.

For thought, it could be following on from gaming. Where having a face cam is very popular for live streams, even on YouTube there is a market for face cams during lets plays.
So it could be that it was sorta picked up from there in more modern times.

There was also a bit of drama a few years back about women in Gunpla, it didn’t last long as really it was silly. That could be similar, where women were just posting themselves with Gundam and other kits and it got some chat about it in a similar way. But they were not actually doing much dissimilar from a lot of the popular men ether in the Hobby.

I do think it just comes down to what you want from hobby content, sometimes you want Hobby entertainment rather than tutorials. Or if you’re seeing something different from what you expected.