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Commissar Caine jokes aside, who do you believe is the greatest warrior/hero in the history of the Imperium?

I'm going to toss in Malum Caedo.... not because he has the coolest name in 40k. His name is a Latin phrase that translates to "I kill evil" ("malum" means evil, and "caedo" means kill)....

But his exploits are canon now, which means that Caedo killed six greater daemons and an entire chaos incursion (His kill count is somewhere in the 40,000 range) with only a servo skull for backup.

And he's not even a Primaris Marine.

After the HH, I think Macharius has a good shout at it, as an effective human baseline leader that brought back a huge chunk of territory. Or maybe Slaydo, who had a similar experience.

I haven't kept up with the never ending gap-filling of Horus Heresy Street, but I'm sure there are quite a few similar types in there. The primarchs take most of the glory I guess, but I don't rate their exploits as much due to their massive mary-sueness. There must be some more baseline types in there as well that get the job done through reasonable competence, rather than heroic happenstance.




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Drusus seems tohave done quite well for himself, with 17m troops and the clearance of a sector.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Angevin_Crusade

Nameless and numberless Guardsmen who make all great conquests possible. At least our commissars said so. Why shouldn't we trust them.

Kubrik Chenkov. Send in the next wave!

Arkhan Land.

Who's the most propagandized enemy of the Imperium?

I nominate them-keeping the Imperium working together (ish) through hatred.

Hard to say greatest in what context. In many ways, Macaldor earned the "hero" moniker that the Emperor gave him since he was the one who held the daemons at bay during the Siege of Terra that allowed the Emperor to be freed up and thereby confront and defeat Horus. He also provided his remaining life force and strength to give the Emperor enough energy to relay his final orders to the Primarchs and Custodians before he was entombed into the Golden Throne.

He's also the one who set up the foundations of the Imperium in terms of the Administratum, the Assassinorum, the Inquisition, the Grey Knights and a lot of the other established institutions that have lasted into 40k's timeline, so he arguably has one of the greatest and longest lasting impacts for both the founding and modern day Imperium (for better or for worse at least in terms of institutional intertia).

What definition of "hero" and rubric for "greatest" are we using?

Imperial warriors are generally some degree of bootlicking xenophobes with no objection to letting countless fellow humans suffer to keep evil men in power.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
What definition of "hero" and rubric for "greatest" are we using?

Imperial warriors are generally some degree of bootlicking xenophobes with no objection to letting countless fellow humans suffer to keep evil men in power.

I see this a lot. The fact that the Imperium hates aliens.

It seems pretty logical to hate them, when every single one is trying to murder, subjugate or eat you.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
What definition of "hero" and rubric for "greatest" are we using?

Imperial warriors are generally some degree of bootlicking xenophobes with no objection to letting countless fellow humans suffer to keep evil men in power.

I see this a lot. The fact that the Imperium hates aliens.

It seems pretty logical to hate them, when every single one is trying to murder, subjugate or eat you.

Why do you think they’re all like that?
Orks and Nids, sure-no peace with them.
But Tau? Or many other minor races that don’t have armies?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
What definition of "hero" and rubric for "greatest" are we using?

Imperial warriors are generally some degree of bootlicking xenophobes with no objection to letting countless fellow humans suffer to keep evil men in power.

I see this a lot. The fact that the Imperium hates aliens.

It seems pretty logical to hate them, when every single one is trying to murder, subjugate or eat you.

Why do you think they’re all like that?
Orks and Nids, sure-no peace with them.
But Tau? Or many other minor races that don’t have armies?

Ok... so let's check on the Galaxy...

We have:

1. Tyranids: An extra-galactic, hive-mind-controlled species that consumes entire worlds to fuel its expansion, becoming stronger and more adaptable with each assimilation.

2. Rangda: An ancient and violent race that launched a devastating invasion during the Great Crusade, using brutal organic warships and enslaving populations with neural collars until the Emperor himself intervened.

3. Stryxis: Known for their barbarity and fear-based control, they enslave other species, maintaining their hold through torture and the threat of extermination against the slaves or their families.

4. Khrave: A powerful, ancient, and psychic xenos race that hunts the darkness and attacks planets without mercy, taking entire populations for consumption.

5. Scythians: Mysterious and hostile, these beings possess glassy skin and glowing eyes. They use crystalline technology and can transform into mobile, crystalline forms capable of bypassing enemies with surgical precision.

6. Megarachnids: An ancient, hyper-violent species that, even without its advanced technology, was able to wipe out entire Space Marine companies on their homeworld, known as Murder.

7. Yu'vath: A mysterious, destroyed race from the Calixis Sector, known for their foul xeno sorcery, strange technology, and a brutal slave empire.

8. Hrud
9. Necrons
10. Slaugth
11. Rak'Gol
10. Fra'al
12. Thyrrus
13. Loxatl
14. Laer
15. Q'orl
16. The Enslavers
17. Drukhari

I'm having trouble finding the friendly ones.

They were wiped out because they weren’t strong enough to resist the Imperium in significant ways.
Also Eldar are a faction that easily could’ve been on relatively good terms.

 JNAProductions wrote:
They were wiped out because they weren’t strong enough to resist the Imperium in significant ways.
Also Eldar are a faction that easily could’ve been on relatively good terms.

The only Xenos army that hasn't tried to manipulate or kill us outright have been the Kroot and the Blood Axes Klan of the Orks.

Heck, even the Tau want to subjugate humanity under the will of their "Ethereals."

 JNAProductions wrote:
They were wiped out because they weren’t strong enough to resist the Imperium in significant ways.
Also Eldar are a faction that easily could’ve been on relatively good terms.

Except Eldar view all other races as pawns to be moved around and used as unwitting buffer zones. They are happy to trade millions of individuals form other races to save one of their own.

However, even with that, Eldar are most often shown as being in localised alliances/ceasefires/cooperation with imperial forces. so in the context of 40k, that seems to be pretty good terms

Never trust an Eldar for exactly that reason. Oh sure, you can negotiate in relatively good faith with Craftworlders. But whilst they won’t just turn on you for a laugh? There’s always always a hidden price. Maybe you’ll pay it today. Maybe you’ll pay it tomorrow. It might be distant descendants that end up paying it.

They can at least sense the shape of possible futures, you sir cannot. And even if perhaps you can? Which one are they aiming at? Because that’s where the real skill of a Farseer comes into it.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:


The only Xenos army that hasn't tried to manipulate or kill us outright have been the Kroot and the Blood Axes Klan of the Orks.

Heck, even the Tau want to subjugate humanity under the will of their "Ethereals."

The Imperium has enacted genocide on hundreds of peaceful or minor Xenos races because of the belief in their Manifest Destiny to claim the galaxy.
It's also done it to hundreds of peaceful human enclaves that just didn't want to get dominated by them.
Just because the ones that are left are bad, doesn't make the Xenophobia justified.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Never trust an Eldar for exactly that reason. Oh sure, you can negotiate in relatively good faith with Craftworlders. But whilst they won’t just turn on you for a laugh? There’s always always a hidden price. Maybe you’ll pay it today. Maybe you’ll pay it tomorrow. It might be distant descendants that end up paying it.

They can at least sense the shape of possible futures, you sir cannot. And even if perhaps you can? Which one are they aiming at? Because that’s where the real skill of a Farseer comes into it.

I mean, humans even shoot you when you honestly tell them your intent is to kill a Chaos god. They're probably worse than orks!

You can at least trust an Ork or Smelly Hooman will betray your alliance in a pleasingly straight forward way.

The Eldar may simply be ensuring you survive this battle, so six years from now you cause the loss of an entire planet. Because that’s what the Farseer reckons needs to happen to ensure his dinner doesn’t get cold the day after.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

6. Megarachnids: An ancient, hyper-violent species that, even without its advanced technology, was able to wipe out entire Space Marine companies on their homeworld, known as Murder.

Tbf, that was a restricted reservation area specifically where the violent and murderous aliens were contained, and I will have you know the name of the planet is Spiderland, not murder. Murder is just the name the marines gave it.

The official answer from the Imperial Cult would pretty much always be Sanguinius, having been martyred personally fighting Horus alongside the Emperor.

But the real answer is obviously Alpharius.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The only Xenos army that hasn't tried to manipulate or kill us outright have been the Kroot and the Blood Axes Klan of the Orks.

The Blood Axes are all about not just enslaving humans but literally turning them into livestock according to one of the war of the beast novels (I think it was Echoes of the Long War, but I can't be bothered to check). They are the most hated clan among the survivors of ork-occupied worlds.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
What definition of "hero" and rubric for "greatest" are we using?

Imperial warriors are generally some degree of bootlicking xenophobes with no objection to letting countless fellow humans suffer to keep evil men in power.

I see this a lot. The fact that the Imperium hates aliens.

It seems pretty logical to hate them, when every single one is trying to murder, subjugate or eat you.

Most of the "friendly" species got wiped out by the imperium during the great crusade. And anytime you find an imperial human contemplating xenos in a BL novel, there's a solid chance their speech or internal monologue will sprinkle in some language about how evil or disgusting the alien is just for being non-human. The imperium is not a wise and tolerant society that would be happy to get along with aliens if only they weren't all so gosh darn evil; they're a bunch of humanity-first xenophobes that basically want to genocide (xenocide) every other species in the galaxy.

"Suffer not the alien to live," and all that.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
What definition of "hero" and rubric for "greatest" are we using?

Imperial warriors are generally some degree of bootlicking xenophobes with no objection to letting countless fellow humans suffer to keep evil men in power.

I see this a lot. The fact that the Imperium hates aliens.

It seems pretty logical to hate them, when every single one is trying to murder, subjugate or eat you.

Why do you think they’re all like that?
Orks and Nids, sure-no peace with them.
But Tau? Or many other minor races that don’t have armies?

Ok... so let's check on the Galaxy...

We have:

1. Tyranids: An extra-galactic, hive-mind-controlled species that consumes entire worlds to fuel its expansion, becoming stronger and more adaptable with each assimilation.

2. Rangda: An ancient and violent race that launched a devastating invasion during the Great Crusade, using brutal organic warships and enslaving populations with neural collars until the Emperor himself intervened.

3. Stryxis: Known for their barbarity and fear-based control, they enslave other species, maintaining their hold through torture and the threat of extermination against the slaves or their families.

4. Khrave: A powerful, ancient, and psychic xenos race that hunts the darkness and attacks planets without mercy, taking entire populations for consumption.

5. Scythians: Mysterious and hostile, these beings possess glassy skin and glowing eyes. They use crystalline technology and can transform into mobile, crystalline forms capable of bypassing enemies with surgical precision.

6. Megarachnids: An ancient, hyper-violent species that, even without its advanced technology, was able to wipe out entire Space Marine companies on their homeworld, known as Murder.

7. Yu'vath: A mysterious, destroyed race from the Calixis Sector, known for their foul xeno sorcery, strange technology, and a brutal slave empire.

8. Hrud
9. Necrons
10. Slaugth
11. Rak'Gol
10. Fra'al
12. Thyrrus
13. Loxatl
14. Laer
15. Q'orl
16. The Enslavers
17. Drukhari

I'm having trouble finding the friendly ones.

Arguably your position is backwards. The imperium went on a xenocidal campaign across the galaxy 10,000 years ago, killing every alien they could find, including ones in peaceful communities with other humans.

So, by this 'they are bad' argument, all the current alien races are entirely justified in hating and attacking humans on sight specifically because the humans led a galaxy wide xenocidal campaign against anything not human.

So, the position is, everything is anti-human, because humans are known to attack and kill anything that's not human. They set the biggest precedent in the galaxy for this. Orks waaaghs don't target specific enemies, drukhari (who hadn't even been properly established by the time of the great crusade) don't specifically target humans.

Only humans specifically ideologically target anything not human. There is a distinct difference that justifies anyone taking a kill on sight reaction to human presence.... The imperium didn't even have the excuse that Terra had suffered under alien enslavement or destruction. The emperor literally started his great crusade with a xenocidal policy at its core. The Imperium didn't start out leaving earth with a friendly attitude to whatever aliens they might meet, they left with the knowledge that they would kill every single alien they found, innocent or not, allies of other humans or not.

Humanity had already run afoul of hostile aliens way before the Imperium or the Emperor rose to power.

Humanity wasn't building Warlord Titans for fun for thousands of years before the great crusade.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Humanity had already run afoul of hostile aliens way before the Imperium or the Emperor rose to power.

Humanity wasn't building Warlord Titans for fun for thousands of years before the great crusade.

But you don't know whether that was humanity's fault or the aliens'. You just assume that the aliens were all universally malevolent, except we know that golden age humanity had treaties with aliens. And of course there were plenty of tau-like human enclaves with alien citizens (like the interex) who very clearly weren't being attacked by aliens. But the emperor and the imperium killed them all because alien 'taint' was unacceptable to them.

And that's still irrelevant to the Imperium of the emperor. Because Aliens weren't attacking terra. Those titans were being used in the far reaches of space against aliens. On mars the only thing titans were used against was other humans and THEIR titans.

The imperium started on earth under the emperor. They didn't emerge from subjugation by aliens, they weren't at war with aliens. the emperor went out into the galaxy and from the getgo wanted to kill all aliens. he didn't start on the planet florp that had been under constant ork attack for 10,000 years and thus was super xenophobic because of direct experience.


The emperor's only enemies for the first few hundred years of his imperium were other humans in the Sol system. He spent more time being attacked by other humans than he ever did by aliens (ie 0 time attacked by aliens). Once he subjugated all humans, he left Sol and went on a xenocidal rampage.

But he did this for purely ideological reasons. there was no basis for this from the perspective of humans in the Sol system, nor even from the history of the golden age where humans were allied with alien civilisations. nor even when there were other human empires in the galaxy that also currently had benevolent alien allies.

The sole reason the imperium is xenophobic is because the emperor wanted it to be and for no other reason.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Humanity had already run afoul of hostile aliens way before the Imperium or the Emperor rose to power.

Humanity wasn't building Warlord Titans for fun for thousands of years before the great crusade.

Humanity built the Men of Iron. Titans could easily have been a response to the fight against the AI.

The only Xenos species we know for sure that Humanity has fought since it went out into space, is the Orks because of course it is.

Part of the issue is of the surviving Big Boys of the Xenos? Only the Tau are arguably trustworthy.

Any flavour of Eldar is only in it for themself. If the destruction of your world will preserve an Eldar life in the future? Farseers will seek to bring that about.

Dark Eldar, well do I need to elaborate?

Pre-Fall Eldar were clearly a deeply unpleasant and murderous.

Orks? Is Orks.

Tyranids? Devour everything and move on.

Kin? They’ll ask nicely if you’d mind terribly sodding off your world as they want to mine it. And then mine it whether you sodded off or not.

Necrons? The only reason they might possibly spare you is to see if you’re a suitable candidate as a new body.

Doesn’t make Man suddenly the good guy of course. But everyone’s a bar steward.

There was an old blurb of fluff saying that the galaxy had no peaceful aliens because the orks already killed anyone less violent than humans.

Maybe that's the secret.

That’s…actually entirely plausible!

Or to fend off pre-Fall Eldar.

I would actually argue that the eldar empire is the only reason humanity survived long enough to ever reach the stars.

Unchecked the orks would over run the galaxy.

The only reason any non ork civilisations existed in the 60 million years between the WiH and the Eldar Fall is because the eldar empire was so powerful it basically acted as a galactic exterminator.

The void weaver super heavy uses wraithbone parasites and monofilament to destroy targets, technologies retrofitted from their terraforming equipment, used to make maiden worlds.

An ork infestation can only happen if the spores remain intact. but I expect that a planetwide blanket of monofilament that shreds all organic matter down to its molecules, and wraithbone parasites that eat every piece of organic matter would actually strip a planet of ork spores entirely.

and thus, every alien species that survived until the Fall did so purely because they lived in the protective shadow of the eldar empire's vast high tech extermination capabilities.

Otherwise the orks would be Beast Sized for millions of years.