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 PenitentJake wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Is it odd that the Cadians are able to roll around Armageddon in open topped transports, while the Steel Legion were required to take the Armoured Crew Compartment upgrade because of the corrosive dust?

Pretty sure the stream said there was an optional roof specifically for folks who wanted a more classic Armageddon vibe. Could be wrong, but pretty sure.

Yeah. Which is still odd, because GW is using the new open topped model to gas up their Armageddon narrative.

Then again, the Steel Legion all died, but are still getting a release during 11th edition when they'll suddenly be as ubiquitous as Cadians Catachans and Krieg, so...

They didn't say SL were dead.

The halftrack looks a more 40k esque in the commisar version.

The extra 40k bits help but maybe it's also not being painted in the ww2 green?

Steel Legion of the Damned.

First non-vitalist IG army.

Vorian wrote:
They didn't say SL were dead.

The halftrack looks a more 40k esque in the commisar version.

The extra 40k bits help but maybe it's also not being painted in the ww2 green?

Heavily depleted and a rare sight without enough of a population to recruit from. Which after 4 wars, makes sense. So have a set of units that'll grace them onto every battlefield across the galaxy.

Dudeface wrote:


Heavily depleted and a rare sight without enough of a population to recruit from. Which after 4 wars, makes sense. So have a set of units that'll grace them onto every battlefield across the galaxy.

Three Wars!

There was no First War of Armageddon

Do not listen to the lies!

Report to the indoctrination center and sit in the blue chair!

The era of circular objective markers is over! Instead, your forces will battle over critical pieces of terrain, such as bunkers, ruins, and relics, instantly making for a more narrative and immersive game. Every battlefield looks immediately better.

Speaking of terrain, it’s now easier to hide units there before they join the battle. Many units can’t be targeted until they themselves have shot, or until the enemy has ventured very close, making them less vulnerable to a first turn alpha strike.

I really really really like those changes.

Immersion is key. And stupid circles break it.

SU-152 wrote:

The era of circular objective markers is over! Instead, your forces will battle over critical pieces of terrain, such as bunkers, ruins, and relics, instantly making for a more narrative and immersive game. Every battlefield looks immediately better.

Speaking of terrain, it’s now easier to hide units there before they join the battle. Many units can’t be targeted until they themselves have shot, or until the enemy has ventured very close, making them less vulnerable to a first turn alpha strike.

I really really really like those changes.

Immersion is key. And stupid circles break it.

What's the difference between a circle with an L shaped ruin on and a rectangle with an L shaped ruin on though? That's essentially the difference as far as we know.

Dudeface wrote:

SU-152 wrote:

The era of circular objective markers is over! Instead, your forces will battle over critical pieces of terrain, such as bunkers, ruins, and relics, instantly making for a more narrative and immersive game. Every battlefield looks immediately better.

Speaking of terrain, it’s now easier to hide units there before they join the battle. Many units can’t be targeted until they themselves have shot, or until the enemy has ventured very close, making them less vulnerable to a first turn alpha strike.

I really really really like those changes.

Immersion is key. And stupid circles break it.

What's the difference between a circle with an L shaped ruin on and a rectangle with an L shaped ruin on though? That's essentially the difference as far as we know.

From the perspective of the gameplay mechanic of scoring points - they are no different. From the perspective of narrative immersion, objectives being terrain that you occupy is massively better than a circle that is often in the open in the middle of no mans land - storming a fortified position is a more narrative approach compared to having a unit stick a tippy toe on a circle to win a war. Doubly so now that you can hide units in terrain - my fortified position/objective is also now an ambush.

Nothing stops you from putting terrain on saud circle
Just that nobody is doing it because it makes the already complicated gameplay more complicated than it need to be

But everyone who really cares about immersion could to that already for the past 30 years.
There is literally no change at all except that the Base is now rectangular instead of round, so everyone must get new bases for their objective markers

I think every faction needs a big set of themed terrain objectives at affordable prices.

 kodos wrote:
Nothing stops you from putting terrain on saud circle
Just that nobody is doing it because it makes the already complicated gameplay more complicated than it need to be

But everyone who really cares about immersion could to that already for the past 30 years.
There is literally no change at all except that the Base is now rectangular instead of round, so everyone must get new bases for their objective markers

Exactly this.

Dudeface wrote:

Vorian wrote:
They didn't say SL were dead.

The halftrack looks a more 40k esque in the commisar version.

The extra 40k bits help but maybe it's also not being painted in the ww2 green?

Heavily depleted and a rare sight without enough of a population to recruit from. Which after 4 wars, makes sense. So have a set of units that'll grace them onto every battlefield across the galaxy.

Which makes little sense. Even if half a dozen hives only survive on the world that is still billions of people. Hell make it only 1 billion. Mobilise 1% and you have 10 million. Given the pre war estimate of 500 billion, even if only 1% of the population is left alive, that is 5 billion and 50 million soldiers.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I don't think it's quite a problem of WWI vs WWII vs early Cold War, it's more that the Rogal Dorn and now the Saladin? (checks notes) Hippogryph have some curves rather than flat armor and harsh angles.

Plus these two new ones really do look like someone took a historical model and added in IG driver.

So I get it. I really like the M3A1? (checks notes) Centaur, but I may not get it all, I may just get some Bolt Action half tracks.

Clearly when Cawl wasn't working on the Primaris, he was recreating the STC for a working drafting compass.

kodos wrote:Nothing stops you from putting terrain on saud circle
Just that nobody is doing it because it makes the already complicated gameplay more complicated than it need to be

But everyone who really cares about immersion could to that already for the past 30 years.
There is literally no change at all except that the Base is now rectangular instead of round, so everyone must get new bases for their objective markers

Depends on how closely you follow terrain layouts and objective marker placement for matched play. If you want a theoretically balanced game, you do what GW suggests over just doing your own thing.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Which makes little sense. Even if half a dozen hives only survive on the world that is still billions of people. Hell make it only 1 billion. Mobilise 1% and you have 10 million. Given the pre war estimate of 500 billion, even if only 1% of the population is left alive, that is 5 billion and 50 million soldiers.

Applying actual hard sci-fi logic to the 40k setting? Yeah we don't do that here. (the podcast Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur is a great show that investigates the realistic numbers and concepts behind sci fi ideas like "hive cities" and shows some mind boggling numbers of scale)

 ClockworkZion wrote:
If you want a theoretically balanced game, you do what GW suggests over just doing your own thing.

rather the opposite, but ymmv

 kodos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
If you want a theoretically balanced game, you do what GW suggests over just doing your own thing.

rather the opposite, but ymmv

For random pick up games or tournament practice? Usually it's the GW missions stuff.

That's not really something that's my thing these days but unless GW puts it into mission design most people won't do otherwise.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Vorian wrote:
They didn't say SL were dead.

The halftrack looks a more 40k esque in the commisar version.

The extra 40k bits help but maybe it's also not being painted in the ww2 green?

Heavily depleted and a rare sight without enough of a population to recruit from. Which after 4 wars, makes sense. So have a set of units that'll grace them onto every battlefield across the galaxy.

Which makes little sense. Even if half a dozen hives only survive on the world that is still billions of people. Hell make it only 1 billion. Mobilise 1% and you have 10 million. Given the pre war estimate of 500 billion, even if only 1% of the population is left alive, that is 5 billion and 50 million soldiers.

What you're saying is they were jackasses and should mobilise the entire population to fight the mere estimated 40 million orks with ease? It was 100-500 billion on the world before the 3rd war, they note "billions" lost and it was one of the single largest losses of human life in the imperium history.

But on the flip side they only committed a tiny force to combat a tiny force in comparison and seemingly all is well. So who knows.

Dudeface wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Vorian wrote:
They didn't say SL were dead.

The halftrack looks a more 40k esque in the commisar version.

The extra 40k bits help but maybe it's also not being painted in the ww2 green?

Heavily depleted and a rare sight without enough of a population to recruit from. Which after 4 wars, makes sense. So have a set of units that'll grace them onto every battlefield across the galaxy.

Which makes little sense. Even if half a dozen hives only survive on the world that is still billions of people. Hell make it only 1 billion. Mobilise 1% and you have 10 million. Given the pre war estimate of 500 billion, even if only 1% of the population is left alive, that is 5 billion and 50 million soldiers.

What you're saying is they were jackasses and should mobilise the entire population to fight the mere estimated 40 million orks with ease? It was 100-500 billion on the world before the 3rd war, they note "billions" lost and it was one of the single largest losses of human life in the imperium history.

But on the flip side they only committed a tiny force to combat a tiny force in comparison and seemingly all is well. So who knows.

Yeah, I think people forget that when Ghaz showed up for his rematch, part of what he did was FLATTEN a large number of cities to break the defensive fortifications of the Imperium and weaken their civilian reserves. It really ruined Armageddon's ability to replenish their troops directly.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


Heavily depleted and a rare sight without enough of a population to recruit from. Which after 4 wars, makes sense. So have a set of units that'll grace them onto every battlefield across the galaxy.

Three Wars!

There was no First War of Armageddon

Do not listen to the lies!

Report to the indoctrination center and sit in the blue chair!

Two Wars. The 3rd War never officially ended.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


Heavily depleted and a rare sight without enough of a population to recruit from. Which after 4 wars, makes sense. So have a set of units that'll grace them onto every battlefield across the galaxy.

Three Wars!

There was no First War of Armageddon

Do not listen to the lies!

Report to the indoctrination center and sit in the blue chair!

Two Wars. The 3rd War never officially ended.

That was just a special military operation.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


What you're saying is they were jackasses and should mobilise the entire population to fight the mere estimated 40 million orks with ease? It was 100-500 billion on the world before the 3rd war, they note "billions" lost and it was one of the single largest losses of human life in the imperium history.

But on the flip side they only committed a tiny force to combat a tiny force in comparison and seemingly all is well. So who knows.

Yeah, I think people forget that when Ghaz showed up for his rematch, part of what he did was FLATTEN a large number of cities to break the defensive fortifications of the Imperium and weaken their civilian reserves. It really ruined Armageddon's ability to replenish their troops directly.

As someone has pointed out the numbers in 40k make little sense. But yes, they can loose 99% of the human population of 500 billion and still raise armies of tens of millions with a 1% mobilisation rate.

 NAVARRO wrote:
I think every faction needs a big set of themed terrain objectives at affordable prices.

Tbh I get that some people hate the circles - but it does sort of do the job well of showing if people are on the objective or not.
Having to measure to some piece of terrain GW will sell you for the cheap cheap price of £60+....
Meh.

Dudeface wrote:

Vorian wrote:
They didn't say SL were dead.

The halftrack looks a more 40k esque in the commisar version.

The extra 40k bits help but maybe it's also not being painted in the ww2 green?

Heavily depleted and a rare sight without enough of a population to recruit from. Which after 4 wars, makes sense. So have a set of units that'll grace them onto every battlefield across the galaxy.

No?

"There are still plenty of them about, though they represent just a fraction of the expansive AM forces deployed across the world".

That doesn't say they are dead nor a rare sight.

Tyel wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
I think every faction needs a big set of themed terrain objectives at affordable prices.

Tbh I get that some people hate the circles - but it does sort of do the job well of showing if people are on the objective or not.
Having to measure to some piece of terrain GW will sell you for the cheap cheap price of £60+....
Meh.

You're assuming measuring. The phrasing used was "in/on the foot print", which very much suggests it's a binary option with no measuring needed.

Anyone play AoS? The new charge roll rule and fight activations are AoS originated. So, if terrain follows suit, you will be given points on the map to place terrain and vague instructions at to what size. Small is less than 7"x7". Medium is between that and 12"x7". Objectives usually get placed in between. two to four medium pieces, four to six small pieces.

This may be what 40k gets, though the objectives will also be terrain.

the removal of circles greatly upsets me, it was simple, made sure you know what objectives where what AND you could have cool designs on them
now they sold me 50$ exclusive WS and tau ones i cant use

Worry not - who knows the whole mechanic might yet just work with circles anyway. GW will just market it as "not working with circles".

Plus in 3 years time circles could be back

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
the removal of circles greatly upsets me, it was simple, made sure you know what objectives where what AND you could have cool designs on them
now they sold me 50$ exclusive WS and tau ones i cant use

Why dont you worry about the rule when you actually know what the rule is?

ccs wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
the removal of circles greatly upsets me, it was simple, made sure you know what objectives where what AND you could have cool designs on them
now they sold me 50$ exclusive WS and tau ones i cant use

Why dont you worry about the rule when you actually know what the rule is?

We know enough to understand that a 40mm circle with a 3" range isnt it though in fairness.

Maybe you can just use circular terrain?