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Rules question:
Can a Hive Crone not charge anymore even not other aircraft? How is it supposed to use its anti aircraft melee attack, when it is just hoping to get charged by them?

There are workarounds. I’ll work it out in 3 years.

It’s just hypothetical for me. But I like to keep the archives up to date for my role of living ancestor. I’ve got a fairly complete set of FAQs and such back to 6th, and some things from even earlier. Not that I use them, but it’s nice for reference when people have oldhammer questions.

 The Phazer wrote:
So Sisters have to pay to take multimeltas in Retributor squads, but Marine Devastators can take any weapon for free. Huh?

I wonder if it's sort of my fault. I talk a lot about the free wargear problem here, on reddit etc, and Retributors were my favourite example of a problem unit in a free wargear world.

Do you know what my favourite example were before them? Carbine Scourges. A unit that GW then split off, and touched none of their other options.

Sometimes I wonder if some GW designer is on social media...

 Ashiraya wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
So Sisters have to pay to take multimeltas in Retributor squads, but Marine Devastators can take any weapon for free. Huh?

I wonder if it's sort of my fault. I talk a lot about the free wargear problem here, on reddit etc, and Retributors were my favourite example of a problem unit in a free wargear world.

Do you know what my favourite example were before them? Carbine Scourges. A unit that GW then split off, and touched none of their other options.

Sometimes I wonder if some GW designer is on social media...

They are humans living in the modern world. Most if not all of them are going to be on some form of social media. What they bring to work from that is another question…

Tyel wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Don't bet on it. Every time a horde build has gotten good in 10e (not oppressive, merely good) the balance team has gotten out of the couch immediately and hammered it down without a moment's hesitation. The only survivor is recon horde Guard, and only because practically no one can or wants to play recon horde Guard (it sucks to build, sucks to paint, and sucks to play).

Contrast with, say, C'tan, who are allowed to run roughshod over the meta, getting only light tap nerfs each time to slowly taper them back down. Hordes get destroyed if they dare to be good. GW just doesn't want that to happen for whatever reason.

So, that's another reason why anti-horde guns aren't relevant.

This is 100% true. The pros, who make up the most vocal sector in terms of GW balancing, explicitly hate horde lists working. They are sometimes pretty open about it.
Ork players can perhaps put the boot in better, but it was comical how the 8th edition Ork codex had to be delayed because it was going to be "too good", the whole pro scene was convinced it was going to completely break the edition and then... it was okay? Because you can't play it like SM or Eldar.
But subsequent SM dominance for about 20~ months was just fine, normal. Just go play Space Marines lol.

I think there is an issue of jail lists, or just moving 40-60 OC onto objectives that you can't kill fast enough so they just win by default.
But its amazing how if this ever starts working its prompts incredible quick responses from GW. Whereas an "elite list" dominating the meta tends to prompts a shrug and "well, something has to be best? We'll get to it in about 3-6 months." (Index Eldar waves as another example.)

Funnily timed discussion this. The new MFM just dropped and added +10 points to guard infantry squads, which is nonsensical, except as a laser targeted nerf to recon Guard.

GW's hatred for hordes knows no bounds.

Interesting changes at first glance. I think the wargear points are underused at the moment. The Defiler doesn't cost more for the plasma cannon, for example. There are quite a few places where they should be charging more for some options, even if they're being quite conservative to start.

Being a web page has pros and cons. I liked the ability to just download a PDF but this formatting seems OK. I think the detachment listing for the non-Codex SM chapters is a bit annoying because it's so large, but then GW should probably remove about half of them anyway. Also, I think grouping the detachments by DP cost would be better for army building.

 Crimson wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
“some gear now costs points”

Quick glance at the Marines shows 2 things. Plasma on the redemptor, and TH/SS assault terminators.

Really using that new design space.

Yeah, very disappointing. They have done basically nothing with it. Even Rogal Dorn tank doesn't get point increase for the better main gun that everybody always uses...

Didn't even make Leman Russ sponsons cost anything like I'd hoped either even though they're literally optional

i was kind of surprised to see things could be both a leader and support. i wonder if there would be any broken examples of having two of the same thing leading a unit?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
So Sisters have to pay to take multimeltas in Retributor squads, but Marine Devastators can take any weapon for free. Huh?

I wonder if it's sort of my fault. I talk a lot about the free wargear problem here, on reddit etc, and Retributors were my favourite example of a problem unit in a free wargear world.

Devs don't get charged because they're most likely Legends the moment the Codex is released and so GW doesn't care about them.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Funnily timed discussion this. The new MFM just dropped and added +10 points to guard infantry squads, which is nonsensical, except as a laser targeted nerf to recon Guard.
GW's hatred for hordes knows no bounds.

I think we just urgently need some games. The pro-scene seems to be moving from one hard assertion of what's going to rule the roost to another like a spinning top.
Purge was going to break the game - but now seemingly Recon will have the easiest/best missions.
Disruption is either absolutely awful... or if you build/design a list for it, quite fine actually. ("Purge vs Disruption is the most unfair mission in the game" meets "Purge vs Disruption is the only good mission for Disruption".)
Take and Hold was going to be the second best, but actually it sucks etc etc.

Anyway - Heat Lance Scourge who can DS straight into melta range for 110 points might be... tempting?
I don't like the 3rd unit tax across so many units for DE - given the limited roster. I don't think it will hugely matter but it just seems there to be a bit annoying. Was anyone running three units of Incubi? Mandrakes? Hellions I'll give you but you could probably drop to 2 big squads without it being the end of the world.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Didn't even make Leman Russ sponsons cost anything like I'd hoped either even though they're literally optional

Of course. Can't have you run a sponsonless Leman Russ. That way you could use the 30k kit, after all, and then the sale would be credited to the wrong internal department! Disaster!

Really, really bad from GW to not offer a downloadable PDF in addition to the MFM web page.

Heh, despite their statements about being able to use 3DP Detachments at 1000 points, the app says you can't.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Heh, despite their statements about being able to use 3DP Detachments at 1000 points, the app says you can't.

I don't think that was the plan
I'm sure that was "oh crap, people have pointed out these armies aren't actually legal anymore, let's make up an excuse on the fly"

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Heh, despite their statements about being able to use 3DP Detachments at 1000 points, the app says you can't.

I don't think that was the plan
I'm sure that was "oh crap, people have pointed out these armies aren't actually legal anymore, let's make up an excuse on the fly"

100%. Just another example of "don't take the social media interns at their word."

 Platuan4th wrote:
Heh, despite their statements about being able to use 3DP Detachments at 1000 points, the app says you can't.

They said that change would be made "in the first update to the Muster Army rules after launch".

Although from the context it's unclear if that only applies to doubles format games where players are often bringing 2x1k lists per side.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Heh, despite their statements about being able to use 3DP Detachments at 1000 points, the app says you can't.

I assumed that was just for Doubles Events, not normal play.

CorwinB wrote:
Really, really bad from GW to not offer a downloadable PDF in addition to the MFM web page.

I don't think searching for that is going to catch on.

At least from my Google browser, each army tab seems to print to pdf fine.

The MFM definitely needs a note telling users that printing from browser works.

It would be better to have one click to print all as one file.

Played with the new points. It's still impossible to build a 2,000 point Sisters of Silence army... unless you plop in 3 Null Maidens from Crucible and a Culexus Assassin.

 Nevelon wrote:
“some gear now costs points”

Quick glance at the Marines shows 2 things. Plasma on the redemptor, and TH/SS assault terminators.

Really using that new design space.


Interestingly some characters are both leaders and support, and the lists are not the same.

And no point cost for the Cyclone Missile Launcher which is heads and shoulders (I guess literally) above the flamer and gatling options. The Deathwatch impact of this is hilarious since there's absolutely no reason not to take triple cyclones in the unit, but now you can get a discount by taking out the only mixed element from the unit. Brilliant work GW.

Noticed that most of the combat patrols didn’t make the switch to 11th. Not surprising. One per army for now.

It seems they didn't go nearly as far with that as they indicated (not shocked). I'm really hoping 12th will go fully into it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:
Noticed that most of the combat patrols didn’t make the switch to 11th. Not surprising. One per army for now.

Just the newest ones I'd wager

Looking at the MFM Legends section, seems like nothing from my army got cut.. so far. That's a relief!

What about the app then? Didnt they say the app also supports Legends this time around? Doesn't really seem to be the case AFAICT..

 Ashiraya wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
So Sisters have to pay to take multimeltas in Retributor squads, but Marine Devastators can take any weapon for free. Huh?

I wonder if it's sort of my fault. I talk a lot about the free wargear problem here, on reddit etc, and Retributors were my favourite example of a problem unit in a free wargear world.

Do you know what my favourite example were before them? Carbine Scourges. A unit that GW then split off, and touched none of their other options.

Sometimes I wonder if some GW designer is on social media...

I mean they almost certainly are.

But I'm not saying it to moan that Sisters have to pay for their wargear - they should! There might actually be a reason to take Retributors with heavy bolters now! But more that the point of doing this is supposed to be to fix obvious issues of internal balance, and the very minimal implementation just doesn't do that.

As others have noted, it just seems really poor use of the design space.

 tauist wrote:
Looking at the MFM Legends section, seems like nothing from my army got cut.. so far. That's a relief!

What about the app then? Didnt they say the app also supports Legends this time around? Doesn't really seem to be the case AFAICT..

I believe they said Legends support was coming to the app after they get through the initial launch work.

Of note, Leaders now reference the Legends units they can attach to.

Thats encouraging to hear

If a Grey Knight player takes more than 1 THUNDERHAWK the 2nd+ increases in pts.
Really?
Spending nearly 1k $ each + working with piles of FW resin wasnt punishment enough?

 LunarSol wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Looking at the MFM Legends section, seems like nothing from my army got cut.. so far. That's a relief!

What about the app then? Didnt they say the app also supports Legends this time around? Doesn't really seem to be the case AFAICT..

I believe they said Legends support was coming to the app after they get through the initial launch work.

Of note, Leaders now reference the Legends units they can attach to.

Being able to switch Legends on in the webpage and have all the Leaders fields auto-populate with the correct units is a fantastic feature.

In the announcement on youtube and on there site they told us that ork boys where armed with shootas, sluggas and choppas. but in the app you still have to take shootas or slugga and shoppa??