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Why?

Some guesses:

Tom Kirby is jealous of the success his brother Jack had in creating the X-Men. Does not want to invite comparisons.
Jervis' son cut his finger on a cultist's spiky shoulder pads.
Gav concerned they'll upset parents. Thinks they should have called them the Lost and the Darned.
Money bin is full.
Saving resources for the big Squat/Chaos Dwarf revival.
No shirt, no shoes, no power armor, no service.

It's too complicated to combine two army books into a format usable by 8 year olds.

Yes, really.

Grim, dark future judged too dark, too grim.

No to Lost and Damned, Yes to Harlequins in attempt to popularise Rugby Union as an alternative to warfare for dispute resolution.

Maybe they lost the Damned rules........

To hard to make the LatD an easier to build and create

Also, Jervis' son will comlain again why he can not convert like other people that have been playing for more than 8 years. Soon there will be no conversions allowed in games unless you have permission from Jervis himself.

akira5665 wrote:Maybe they lost the Damned rules........

I don't say this normally, but lol...

On a serious note, maybe they are uncertain if they can keep a latd army running. Wasn't it the stated policy that any codex published will be supported like...forever?

Or maybe Chaos is not allowed to be more versatile than space marines. You cannot combine guard and space marines so cannot chaos marines!

Greets
Schepp himself

They love them, so much so that they want to keep them all to themselves.

Or, for an actual valid reason, I guess they won't make money. Good guy humans without power armour (Guard) are probably barely covering their costs. I don't think bad guy humans w/o p/armour will do anything for their bottom line.

Because they don't have any models to support them.

I'm not kidding...that's the party line.

They have evil space elves, evil space marines, if they make evil space humans they'll have to make evil space commie alien guys and evil space mean nun ladiez.

Either that or they're just a bunch of no-fun poo-faces.

Tacobake wrote:They have evil space elves, evil space marines, if they make evil space humans they'll have to make evil space commie alien guys and evil space mean nun ladiez.

Either that or they're just a bunch of no-fun poo-faces.

But how do you make evil orks? Is it like star trek where you go to an alternate dimension and all the orks there are super smart, boring, and have evil gotees?

Orock wrote:
But how do you make evil orks? Is it like star trek where you go to an alternate dimension and all the orks there are super smart, boring, and have evil gotees?

This idea certainly has potential...

The rest of the staff got angry that he stole the name of their workers union.

Wouldn't Lost and the Damned simply be Imperial Guard gone bad?!?! So, you'd use IG stats, but your objectives would be non Imperial.....

Why do you need a seperate codex for that?!? Whats more, you'd probably have a Chaos Space Marine army "leading" their slaves of darkness.....and rules for CSM are everywhere....so what more do you need?!?!

So what do we need Dark Eldar for?! For gods sake they even pushed the door open for chaos nids in the last dex. Everything could be chaos nowadays. But on the one side you got the hordes screaming: "Tourney list! Tourney list!" and even more the ones who see the no more rules for coming editions. And people don't want to invent themselves rules because they want to point to a rule book or their opponent wants them to point to a rule book and say: "Here you go an unblanced, bad written OFFICIAL list and I couldn't have done that any better!"
And this is what H.B.M.C. points out all the time. And I am sick of hearing about his gaming group but he is right!

Delephont, it's one thing to say "You guys don't need special rules, you can just use IG and 'counts-as,'" and quite another thing to give players a set of special rules with special units, encourage them to purchase and convert models to represent these units, and then take these rules away. You may not think LatD deserve a separate 'dex, but having been given one, isn't it terribly unfair to invalidate the armies people built up based on it? You wouldn't be hearing these complaints if GW had simply never created the army in the first place.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Delephont, it's one thing to say "You guys don't need special rules, you can just use IG and 'counts-as,'" and quite another thing to give players a set of special rules with special units, encourage them to purchase and convert models to represent these units, and then take these rules away. You may not think LatD deserve a separate 'dex, but having been given one, isn't it terribly unfair to invalidate the armies people built up based on it? You wouldn't be hearing these complaints if GW had simply never created the army in the first place.

Agreed. I kind of like LatD, and it's combination of Space Marine cheese, lumbering engines of war, crappy run-away evil girlie boy guardsmen and T4 hidden powerfists makes me happy inside.

Plus I just love making my hands smell all gluey after putting together a hundred odd mutants.

I honestly think they're just on the back-burner. Their priority goes like this.

Space Marines
Xenos (Ork, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necron, Tau)
Chaos
Inquisition
Other (3rd ed variant lists, presumably including LatD)

I don't know why GW can't include LatD as part of a Chaos book but whatever.

Same reason that they are producing a seperate demons book........cash flow.

In 6 months or a year they will announce, with trumpets and fanfare that they are releasing
"ALL NEW!! Lost & Damned codex!
"now with more vitamins!"

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Delephont, it's one thing to say "You guys don't need special rules, you can just use IG and 'counts-as,'" and quite another thing to give players a set of special rules with special units, encourage them to purchase and convert models to represent these units, and then take these rules away. You may not think LatD deserve a separate 'dex, but having been given one, isn't it terribly unfair to invalidate the armies people built up based on it? You wouldn't be hearing these complaints if GW had simply never created the army in the first place.

We are in complete agreement, but it was a different regime back then who created new army lists without putting thought into the viability of supporting those armies in the long term.


There isn't any evidence that GW doesn't like LatD, just that they may have not found the time or the money to make the army into a full codex release, which is what it takes for an army to be supported indefinitely by GW now.


I think we may see a time, years down the road where LatD get a whole line of their own models and their own codex, but that isn't something that is on GW's radar at this point as far as I can tell.

I'm just so annoyed there's talk of a new Goth Elfs in Space codex before chaos cults.

So, LatD and mutants in general no longer exist. Do no so evil Chaos Space Marines work in the factory now? Consdering mutants are a large part of the work force on Imperial planets, maybe they just realized they are not so evil Chaos Space Marines all along.

Mutants or Twists as they affectionately call them, are very important to the supporting fluff of Inquisitors and Chaos in general.

the_trooper wrote:So, LatD and mutants in general no longer exist. Do no so evil Chaos Space Marines work in the factory now? Consdering mutants are a large part of the work force on Imperial planets, maybe they just realized they are not so evil Chaos Space Marines all along.

Mutants or Twists as they affectionately call them, are very important to the supporting fluff of Inquisitors and Chaos in general.

I think that the chaos mutants are now working in CHINA, making little toys for little girls and boys.

If GW could clearly determine that LatD was an actual money-maker from a sales perspective, rather than being buried as additional CSM / IG / bitz sales, GW might like LatD.

While LatD is losing their special rules when they play as IG + Inquistion (or whatever), the new-style Codices would take away a lot of their special rules anyways.

I think the big question will be how Codex: Daemons sells. If it sells well, then Codex: LatD becomes more of a real possibility at a later date.

Particularly if the next Codex: IG also sells well.

Ok, fair points....but Forge World has almost answered your prayers right! Have you seen the new chaos cultists, and the SIEGE OF VRAKS PART ONE!

Ok, this isn't a tornament approved list, I guess, but then thats not such a big deal to me as I don'y and will never play at a tornament!

I enjoy taking the WH40K setting and developing it myself, along the fluff lines, but adding my own slice of jazz in the mix. I don't understand why others don't want to get involved with their hobby and create!

Sure, GW has everything locked down....but only in its shops and its offically run tournaments....outside of that bubble the sky is the limit......surely?!?

Going a little off topic here-apologies.

I think if GW put out a "Codex-Galaxy War" it might be a good idea. Like with the Apoc style of 'counts-as' with clear rules on how to create you own Army. Bring out those Zoats, Jokareo, Slaan, Lizard-bitey dudes.

Due to me having a hiatus for about 10 years I totally missed LaTD. Sounds like it was a blast, but unsupported for future gamers.

A shame.

I've been out of the hobby for a few years...

What happened to the validity of the existing LatD rules ?

I think we're overlooking the real reason: Because you touch yourself.

I'm trying to do a LatD army with IG rules. I've got pretty much everything except Big Mutants, and yes, I've already thought of Ogryns. I'm toying with having them count as rough riders, but I'm not sure. A guy I play against suggested having them count as Sentinels and that they would be a kind of mutant heavy weapon platform.

My current thought is to do use 'nid rules.

Ripper swarms would be human waves.
Gaunts as warrior cultists.
The big mutants and demons as the big bugs.

But I doubt I'll ever do it.

Delephont wrote:Ok, fair points....but Forge World has almost answered your prayers right! Have you seen the new chaos cultists, and the SIEGE OF VRAKS PART ONE!

Ok, this isn't a tornament approved list, I guess, but then thats not such a big deal to me as I don'y and will never play at a tornament!

I enjoy taking the WH40K setting and developing it myself, along the fluff lines, but adding my own slice of jazz in the mix. I don't understand why others don't want to get involved with their hobby and create!

Depends on your club. My club in NY was very into the tournament scene and did not like any home--brewed or unofficial lists simply because we liked to know our opponent's rules and just keeping up with the official codexes was hard enough.

The problem with the FW lists is they are only available in $50+ hardbacks from England, you can't even leaf through them at the store. So in a game you're really coming in blind and need to waste time asking 'what's that, and that, and that'. Plus since GW had enough trouble writing clear and balanced rules I would have my doubts that GW's boutique cousin can even meet their low standards.

Still I'd love to know what that list looks like.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I'm just so annoyed there's talk of a new Goth Elfs in Space codex before chaos cults.

Well, I know your intense hatred for the Space Elves in general, so that sentiment isn't surprising, but DE do have both a codex and a miniature line so is it really surprising that they would be revisited before a LatD miniature line would be created?

adamsouza wrote:I've been out of the hobby for a few years...

What happened to the validity of the existing LatD rules ?

Like all sub-army lists, the codices they were originally in have gone out of print and the army lists themselves have been removed from the UKGW website. The USGW website has continued to host some of the lists but has made it very clear that the rules are optional and may not be used in upcoming Grand Tournaments (at the organizer's whim).

In general, the lists are essentially still usable until the new codex for the army comes out, at which point the sub-army list no longer properly references the codex and is therefore essentially unusuable (also because the points costs and wargear between the old and new codices are often not the same).

So with the release of the newest Chaos codex, the LatD sub-army list is essentially outdated and no longer in use.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The problem with the FW lists is they are only available in $50+ hardbacks from England, you can't even leaf through them at the store. So in a game you're really coming in blind and need to waste time asking 'what's that, and that, and that'. Plus since GW had enough trouble writing clear and balanced rules I would have my doubts that GW's boutique cousin can even meet their low standards.

Still I'd love to know what that list looks like.

DO NOT look at the IA5 traitor guard army list, it will only make you depressed and/or laugh. It is basically just a standard guard army with a couple of wierd units (Ogryn Bezerkers and possessed psykers) and a truly terrible rule that makes the list completely unusable:

The first time every unit in the army has to make a Ld test, you have to randomly roll for its Leadership. Worse yet, the units are priced exactly the same as regular guard despite having this horrible affliction. Not only is this totally unfair but it is also a tremendous pain to keep track of every single unit's (different) Ld value throughout the game.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.


Now, the rumor is that IA6 will have a true LatD army list. The adversaries in IA5 are basically just renegade guard, but supposedly the conclusion to the story (in IA6) will have the army turning fully over to Chaos and then we'll finally see daemons and some CSM join the fray. I'm hoping that army list will fill the void of the LatD army list in some ways.

Well, I know your intense hatred for the Space Elves in general, so that sentiment isn't surprising, but DE do have both a codex and a miniature line so is it really surprising that they would be revisited before a LatD miniature line would be created?

The Dark Eldar line will be 10 years old next year with no updates and was no highly regarded even when it was brand now.

It is certain the mini line will have to be completely redone before it can be relaunched.

But the chaos cultists have models from forge world, tons of fluff and lots of existing chaos models that can be repurposed.

So yeah, they are both starting from scratch and if anything chaos cults have the edge in starting up.