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I was just playing Dawn of War, and was generally enjoying the game (I liked Sindri a lot). Then, near the end, there came a moment that made me want to go bang my head on a wall. The Eldar farseer orders her troops to fire on Gabriel to prevent him from destroying the Maledictum. This makes no sense whatsoever. By her own admission, the Eldar were no longer strong enough to fight the Space Marines. Why couldn't she break standard procedure for once, and just give the humans a straight answer? Something like "Hey, there's a daemon in there and because of all the bloodshed if you smash it now the daemon will be let out." But no. She chooses, with no explanation at all, to fire on Gabriel, obviously inclining him to ignore him and break the Maledictum. Then she has the nerve to complain about it. What an idiot.

Even Eldar do rash things under dire circumstances, and they barely trust humans in the first place.

But Gabriel doesn't care, because he has an awesome hammer and a bitchin' cape, unlike that sissy Calgar.

The Eldar have never been good at communicating in a straight fashion with the Monkeigh. And their minds work so differently from ours, we cannot even comprehend why it is they do what they do.

Dark Lord Seanron wrote:The Eldar have never been good at communicating in a straight fashion with the Monkeigh. And their minds work so differently from ours, we cannot even comprehend why it is they do what they do.

They came to the system for the express purpose of stopping the daemon from being released. And yet they somehow couldn't be bothered to take fifteen seconds to tell Gabriel why he shouldn't destroy the stone, which had been his goal the whole time.

He probably wouldn't trust them to begin with, what with being Xenos filth and all.

Railguns wrote:He probably wouldn't trust them to begin with, what with being Xenos filth and all.

He trusted them enough to stop and talk to the farseer after the Eldar were defeated in battle rather than just shooting her. And he was willing to hear her out, over Isador's urging to not trust her.

The point is that they are all xenophobic zealots. Gabriel was going to smash the stone regardless of what the Eldar said.

"If you break the stone, you'll release the daemon!"

"You lieing Eldar only want the stone to increase your power!" -BAM-

'Muhahahahahaha!'

DarkHound wrote:The point is that they are all xenophobic zealots.

True, but in the universe they live in, I honestly can't blame them. All the xenos around them really are very evil. Orks wage massive campaigns of war and genocide for fun. The Tau's plan for humanity involved mass sterilization and concentration camps (which admittedly does make them the nicest folks in the setting). Eldar view other species as mindless pawns to be used and discarded, and think nothing of killing billions of humans to save a single Eldar. Dark Eldar really like torturing stuff and eating souls. Oh, and the Tyranids want to devour the galaxy.

DarkHound wrote:
"If you break the stone, you'll release the daemon!"

"You lieing Eldar only want the stone to increase your power!" -BAM-

'Muhahahahahaha!'

I dunno. He was willing to at least hear her out the last time they talked.

DoWII pulls the exact same crap. They try to stop the Blood Ravens from killing the orks by attacking the Blood Ravens. Then they're all secretive about he Hive fleet approaching.
All Idranel had to do is say: "Look, there's a Tyranid Hive fleet coming this way. We want to stop it because our Craftworld is next in it's path. Our plan is to use the orks against them because orks are so numerous. Give us a hand or your system will be wiped out."

Spoken like a true monkeigh. You can't even begin to question our questions, therefore we question your right to question! ...or something.

Edit: Eldrad made her do it.

personally i didnt like the whole animation.

you know him jsut standing there getting shot.

fun stuff

What is to say that if they had told the blood ravens that the hive fleet was coming the Space marines would not have worked to undermine both the Eldar and the Orks in the hope that they both would be wiped out and leave a weakened hive fleet in their place.

In the universe of 40k that had to be an option. Kryptman did almost the same thing by diverting the hive fleet into ork space.

If they didn't expect the Tyranids to attack, they must have missed Cyrus wetting himself in fear and adoration for the Nids every time they let him speak. How all but one veteran in an entire Chapter of Marines not know what Tyranids are?

All I have to say now is if you hated the pure stupidity that happened in all the DoW games, then just wait until the new 40k MMO comes out in what 2012? By the sure lack of common sense, fluff contradictions, and just awful plots and character lines, we should expect the new MMO to be just as wrong and bad as the other games...

Now don't get me wrong. The gameplay was great, and we can expect this new mmo to be fun as well, but the story, the characters, all the things that DoW sucked at, we can expect that in the games to come.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Eldrad made her do it.

What a dick.

I agree. GW and anything that they have created is always ended up being screwed.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Eldrad made her do it.

What a dick.

That'd be just like him.

Deathbot wrote:

DarkHound wrote:The point is that they are all xenophobic zealots.

Tau's plan for humanity involved mass sterilization and concentration camps (which admittedly does make them the nicest folks in the setting).

i disagree. Orks are the kindest. all they want is to kill. They don't want to take prisoners.

By the way when is Warhammer: Space marine coming out?

Eldrad was the only one who would give humanity a straight answer and the result was being attacked by a crazy primarch, a dead wraithlord and a dead Avatar.

Does it make me a bad person for wanting the fluff to get watered down? I recall a painting thread a while back where a guy had converted some SM to make his "chapter" be aligned with the Tau. I thought it was a really cool idea, and would look really good. Of course the fluff mongers invade. If the Imperium really measures it's strength not in the lives of men, but in planets, and for every one lost, three more enter the fold, you really don't think there would be at least one example of everything in the universe? There wouldn't be a guy who was a champion of Khorne but got bored with it and moved on to Slaanesh? Maybe some humans found if they worked with the hive mind, it left them unconsumed? It just seems silly that this huge, vast, endless, expansive universe follows such a tight set of rules.

The 40k universe has endless possiblities for fluff, but there are some guidelines..

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Does it make me a bad person for wanting the fluff to get watered down? I recall a painting thread a while back where a guy had converted some SM to make his "chapter" be aligned with the Tau. I thought it was a really cool idea, and would look really good. Of course the fluff mongers invade. If the Imperium really measures it's strength not in the lives of men, but in planets, and for every one lost, three more enter the fold, you really don't think there would be at least one example of everything in the universe? There wouldn't be a guy who was a champion of Khorne but got bored with it and moved on to Slaanesh? Maybe some humans found if they worked with the hive mind, it left them unconsumed? It just seems silly that this huge, vast, endless, expansive universe follows such a tight set of rules.

Well in a realistic universe those kind of things would happen. but there is no shades of gray in 40k. especially when it comes to interactions between races. the fluff is written in absolutes and even the races capable of communication (humans, eldar, tau,etc.) have had thier fluff written in such a way that they are ridiculously against cooperation whether because of xenophobia, pride, or blind inability to see the bigger picture. 40k has always been in black & white.

As to the OP; I am often annoyed by their depiction of eldar in games; you would think that beings hundreds of years old would figure out that a little communication can go a long way.

So nowhere in the vastness of space, will there be any exceptions? Even when the fluff contradicts itself often? This is what I'm talking about. Hardly anything is that absolute, even in fantasy worlds.

Archonate wrote:DoWII pulls the exact same crap. They try to stop the Blood Ravens from killing the orks by attacking the Blood Ravens. Then they're all secretive about he Hive fleet approaching.
All Idranel had to do is say: "Look, there's a Tyranid Hive fleet coming this way. We want to stop it because our Craftworld is next in it's path. Our plan is to use the orks against them because orks are so numerous. Give us a hand or your system will be wiped out."

Nah, in DoW II they were genuinely at odds; the Eldar hoped to destroy most of the Tyranid forces (and thus weaken any attack on Ulthwé) by DESTROYING MERIDIAN.

Obviously the Blood Ravens wouldn't have cooperated with that

At any rate; their moves with the Orks were intended to be a delaying action (as far as I could gather) against both the Blood Ravens and the Tyranids... I don't think they could logically enlighten the Marines and ask them to assist... and yes, I also think the Marines would realistically have known what was coming as soon as the 'Shadow in the Warp' was observed.

and if the Eldar had been like, "We're trying to do this to protect our Craftworld!" And had there even been a semblance of an alliance, however temporary, as soon as the Tyranid threat had been dealt with wouldnt the blood Ravens be like "Craftworld eyyy? Near here you say? You're NEXT! FOR THE EMPEROR!" Thats just a matter of principle right?

first off, gabriel and macha (farseer lady) are as sharp as bowling balls. how gabriel didn't notice his librarian friend muttering loudly to himself about the wonders of chaos when hes 2 feet away......especially with marine super hearing.

and as far eldar go, their freak'n beil-tan what were you expecting, logic? these are the same eldar who think they can reclaim the galaxy......with one craftworld......against trillions of humans. look at winter assault, Uthwe eventually told sturn and it almost worked out ok for them. (accept for sturn being a dick and leaving them to die but thats a waaaay different rant).

you think that fluffs bad, read the book.....your eyes shall bleed

Eldarranger wrote:you think that fluffs bad, read the book.....your eyes shall bleed

No, don't read the books. Instead, go to your local grocery store. Purchase 3 romance novels, glue them together, write on the front Bloods Ravens Omnibus, then read it backwards.
It'll be more interesting and have fewer plot holes.

C.S Goto's books have caused mixed reviews and heated debate amongst readers. Negative reviews of Goto's Warhammer novels have criticised the author's lack of adherence to Codex material (colloquially known as "fluff") and lack of Multilasers, particuarly in the Deathwatch series. Despite this, the majority of views are positive and praise Goto's work with Multilasers for it's style of writing and exploration of characters with good, structured multilasers. Most prominent among these are the Dawn of War novels which are based on the PC Games by Relic.

Screw fluff anomalies, what really irks me is some of the models in the DoW games. It looked like the in the original, they went for a "tabletop minirature" look as far as infantry went(SMs/CSMs are not proportioned realistically at all), maybe to provide an atmosphere that was like "live table-top" or something.

Also, and maybe this was because of the time it was made, they decided to make the Eldar Guardian and Ranger look like crap(the former has a "beaky" facemask, while the latter is...yeah). The Farseer could've been done a lot better, too. Some of the later models are extremely well done, though--pretty much all Tau units(with the exception of Stealthsuits; see: SMs/CSMs), Dark Eldar and SoB look awesome and very realistic.

Lol, have to agree the eldar suck at talking to anyone who is not eldar(and even at that they piss each other off pretty easy), but only cause there full of themselves and think that there the only ones who can save the universe. I think they just bitter against Humans cause there top dog kinda, and they got whooped during the great cursade. As for the Blood Ravens books I thought they were great some stuff was out of wack or different and he repeated the same stuff like three times that Im already aware of but other then that I thought they were good, but maybe im just insane lol