Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was reading the 40k Fluff Bible the other day (http://www.scribd.com/doc/7027523/Warhammer-40K-Fluff-Bible) when I noticed that it said the World on which WHFB occurs is just another world in the 40k universe that has been seperated from the rest of the galaxy by severe warp storms or something like that. (it starts on Page 59)

Is this correct? If so, could it mean that Sigmar was one of the two lost Primarchs?
After all, it makes sense considering his superior physical size and strength, his ability to bring together the different human factions and his skill with diplomacy, as well as his tactical geni(CREEE.. cough cough, sorry) I mean Tactical genius during his many battles, and also his extrodinarily long life.

Does this theory have any merit? Please tell me what you all think.

Gw have commented many times that the two games are seperate, the only connectionn is with the Chaos gods, and they are just recycled for use in both games and dont mean they exist in the game game universe.

Saying that thwere have been obious crossovers, the most recent being the Magic Items from the Albion campaign which is thinly disguised Space marine-esque waergear.

This question is asked a lot, to save time just read previous threads on Sigmar.

It all comes down to 'we dont know' or 'its up to you' depending on whether you think players should make definative interpretations on the fluff.

Weird, I thought i had checked whether there were any threads on this already, my search had no results. ah well, could you give me a link to these other threads? thanks.

So is the fluff bible wrong then?

I heard that the WHFB world was in the warp. I also thought that Sigmar could be a primarch but there is no official fluff that says we are correct.

The fluff bible just...is.

The fluff bible is right about the location of the world of WHFB. GW are right that WHFB is unconnected with 40K.

Sigmar could be a vessel of the emperors will across time space and the warp. Could be, maybe, possibly, never?

Yeah sometimes Search doesn't work so well.

Back in the days, there was some crossover between the two games. For example you could have a WHFB champion being given a plasma gun as a chaos gift. The idea of Sigmar as a primarch seems cool - ( He seems to do all the sort of primarchy things.)

But nowadays it seems to be that in the 'official ' fluff there is no link between the two games and also no hope of knowing anything about the missing primarchs.

I think the fluff bible is really good, but it is a collection of lots of fluff from under many beds some from quite a long time ago . I think that in GWs world some of that fluff has been hoovered up and thrown away.

As the warp touches upon multiple realities, it is possible that both universes are connected through the warp while not existing in the same reality themselves.

I kinda rember a thread like this before and someone said that they know sigmars early life, like family and stuff. That would rule out being a primiarch.

@OP: Yes.

@Orkfantic: Many Primarchs were adopted in thier early days, and most knew they were special but had no inkling that they had come from space/warp.

White Dwarf 93, the issue that introduced Warhammer 40,000 said that the Warhammer World was in fact just one world within the 40K galaxy.

Since then GW have ret-conned that and stated that as far as they're concerned the two universes are seperate but since GW is now run by a bunch of accountants (warp damn them) who don't know and could care less about the background I say pfft! to that nonsense.

Emperors Faithful wrote:@OP: Yes.

@Orkfantic: Many Primarchs were adopted in thier early days, and most knew they were special but had no inkling that they had come from space/warp.

Except there's no evidence for Sigmar being adopted and at least 2 BL books(Heldenhammer and The Legend of Sigmar) that specifically speak of his birth.

I say its possible. Remember the squats? Wait, you don't, Because they don't exist, because GW says so,just like so many other things....

I wish people could just grasp the fact that GW can run two games...

I mean, LotR isn't a planet...

Henners91 wrote:I wish people could just grasp the fact that GW can run two games...

I mean, LotR isn't a planet...

Or is it?

Yeah sigmar was born just like everyone else was he not? Seems pretty clear if you are reading the Sigmar Trilogy... so I highly doubt hes a primarch as he isnt necessarily "huge" as stated before... Beefy and strong? Oh yeah... 11 feet tall? No way... I would like to believe that the Warhammer world is apart of the 40k universe but left out... Since I believe the Old Ones are also mentioned in 40k?

Gogsnik wrote:White Dwarf 93, the issue that introduced Warhammer 40,000 said that the Warhammer World was in fact just one world within the 40K galaxy.

Since then GW have ret-conned that and stated that as far as they're concerned the two universes are seperate but since GW is now run by a bunch of accountants (warp damn them) who don't know and could care less about the background I say pfft! to that nonsense.

Bingo!

Back in the day, Fantasy and 40K were almost intermeshed. It was alluded to that Sigmar MAY have been one of the lost primarchs. But as GW (oh noes! and Citadel Miniatures!) merged and progressed, the 40k and Fantasy worlds diverged and eventually Sigmar was his own man. Never read the Sigmar Time of Legends Book (I read the Nagash book and loved it). So, in essence, back in the day, he was HINTED that he may have been a lost primarch.

But as things go, his backstory and those of the two lost primarchs went their separate ways.

(Of course, that's just GW propaganda. )

Yeah,GW keeps the true fluff of Sigmar in their fortress of Nottingham.

Exactly. They also hold an entire race of short squat-like creatures there for continuous torture and interrogation.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Exactly. They also hold an entire race of short squat-like creatures there for continuous torture and interrogation.

I feel sorry for S*** because GW imprisoned them there and they are using them as cheap labor for sculpting miniatures.

IvanTih wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Exactly. They also hold an entire race of short squat-like creatures there for continuous torture and interrogation.

I feel sorry for S*** because GW imprisoned them there and they are using them as cheap labor for sculpting miniatures.

That would explain the new beastmen minis... clearly the sqaut like creatures are revolting!

OT: I might have to check out that white dwarf... sounds intense :O

GW has also imprisoned the guy who created Malal.

Buttlerthepug wrote:Yeah sigmar was born just like everyone else was he not? Seems pretty clear if you are reading the Sigmar Trilogy... so I highly doubt hes a primarch as he isnt necessarily "huge" as stated before... Beefy and strong? Oh yeah... 11 feet tall? No way... I would like to believe that the Warhammer world is apart of the 40k universe but left out... Since I believe the Old Ones are also mentioned in 40k?

Hang on, hang on: since when is any space marine, primach or even the Emperor himself 11 ft tall?!

I have read some interesting theories on how Sigmar was a primach, and how the act that tore the chaos gate open was the birth of Slaanesh (in WFB he is still mentioned as the youngest of the gods and born relatively recently). To my mind quite a few of them tie together. Do I think that is it true and that the WFB world is definitely a planet in 40k? No, but that it is a humorous nod to each system; 40k certainly has enough nods to WFB.

Yeah,GW keeps the true fluff of Sigmar in their fortress of Nottingham.

aka, the ministry of love.

I say its possible. Remember the squats? Wait, you don't, Because they don't exist, because GW says so,just like so many other things....

I'm sure you wont find any evidence to the contrary Mr Smith. (it all goes down the memory holes)

Also, 2+2=5

(for anyone who doesn't understand, read 1984 by George Orwell)

Morgrim wrote:

Buttlerthepug wrote:Yeah sigmar was born just like everyone else was he not? Seems pretty clear if you are reading the Sigmar Trilogy... so I highly doubt hes a primarch as he isnt necessarily "huge" as stated before... Beefy and strong? Oh yeah... 11 feet tall? No way... I would like to believe that the Warhammer world is apart of the 40k universe but left out... Since I believe the Old Ones are also mentioned in 40k?

Hang on, hang on: since when is any space marine, primach or even the Emperor himself 11 ft tall?!

I have read some interesting theories on how Sigmar was a primach, and how the act that tore the chaos gate open was the birth of Slaanesh (in WFB he is still mentioned as the youngest of the gods and born relatively recently). To my mind quite a few of them tie together. Do I think that is it true and that the WFB world is definitely a planet in 40k? No, but that it is a humorous nod to each system; 40k certainly has enough nods to WFB.

My apologies, I was exagerating when I said it... however as far as it seems, Sigmar is no where near the size of any Space Marine... just a rather strong, beefy, bad arse, face kicking guy..

I don't know, he looked pretty up there. Standing heads and shoulders over the average guy. (And whamming orcs/orks in the face with a hammer.)

Emperors Faithful wrote:I don't know, he looked pretty up there. Standing heads and shoulders over the average guy. (And whamming orcs/orks in the face with a hammer.)

Perhaps, but what's the Average height in the Warhammer world? 5 feet? 6 feet? Even at 6 feet, "head and shoulders" over the average guy is 7 foot 2 inches or around there, which is shorter than a Space Marine, and Primarchs are supposed to be even taller than marines.

Are they? I know they were big for a Space Marine, but I wouldn't say they were noticeably so. It's more their 'presence' that their fellow marines give way to.

Well going by the current Time of Legends Sigmar Trilogy... He wasnt described as a head and shoulders taller then most men. Of coarse He was bigger then most but there are plenty of people in the book that dwarfed him. A few of the Barbarian people and numerous Orc Warbossess were overwhelmingly big to him...

As far as I can remember a Space Marine isn't THAT gigantic without Power Armour either. So I'm guessing a Primarch isn't so obviously inhuman to others. (As they were indeed adopted by many cultures)