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Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4 - Overall Game Summary at Bottom of Post

My list:
Farseer, jetbike, ROWarding, ROWitnessing, Fortune
Autarch, jetbike, laserlance, meltagun, mandiblaster
6 Warlocks, jetbikes, 3 destructors, 2 embolden, 1 enhance

5 Fire dragons
Wave serpent, shuriken cannon, stones
5 Fire dragons
Wave serpent, shuriken cannon, stones

5 Dire avengers
Wave serpent, EML, shuriken cannon, stones
5 Dire avengers
Wave serpent, EML, shuriken cannon, stones
10 Storm guardians, Warlock, 2 x Flamers, Destructor
Wave serpent, Scatter laser, Shuriken cannon, stones

Fire prism
Fire prism
Nightspinner



-Some after thoughts on my list. I had been building the seer council upto the NOVA and had only play tested it once, so my use of it was really limited. I found the autarch extremely useless, and actually found the seer council much more fragil and much less effective than I had anticipated. It was a major point sink, and it never payed off for me, which was a shame really.


Eldar - Ray
Yriel
Farseer w/doom, ROwarding

2x5 fire dragons in EML serpent and scatter laser serpent

2x10 bladestorm DA in BL wave serpents
2x5 DA in BL waveserpents

3 fire prisms

Mission: same as 2, 5 objectives, pitched battle

I finally win the roll to go first, but I decide to go second. He deploys everything along basically the entire board edge. I reserve all 3 troops again. and deploy off on one flank. Except for my dragons who go on the right flank for the prisms.

Turn 1:
He doesnt move a lot. He links a prism to get a s6 ap3 blast on my council and kills 2 (no fortune yet). and than he bright lances another one.

We have a pretty serious rules disagreement about perils of the warp and fortune and the judge does not agree with me (fwiw, I think its played if your fortuned and fail your perils test (im taking it on 3d6 from other warding, but I have witnessing) you can retake your invul because of fortune. The judge disagreed with me because perils makes you re-roll a sucessful save, so either way you end up rerolling the first result. So in his view, anything that makes a double re-roll cancels eachother out. Except IMO if you pass the test the first time, it benefits you more, since you dont have to reroll your 4+. Anyways, I took the wound on my farseer). I flatout my fire dragons and move up my council and wreck a 5 man DA serpent.


Turn 2:
He moves both full 10 man DA squads up and gets them out. He unloads all 10 fiire dragons. He tries to doom me but fails. He than goes to bladestorm my council but grabs the most enourmous amount of dice, and I went woah what are you doing. He goes, im bladestorming, its 42 shots......I lol, and go uh no its not. He goes yes it is, ive been playing it that way ALL DAY. So instead of just re-reading the DA entry in his codex he goes to get a rules judge.......(I play eldar dood, I think I know), and the judge has to now read the codex entry to confirm its not 42 shots. Anyways I could tell he still used way to many dice as he put 16 wounds on my council from whats supposed to be 33 shots (unless his dice were rolling ungodly well, he should only get 10 wounds). Anyways between that bladestorm and the other 10 man bladestorm I lose another 2 warlocks. His fire dragons manage to explode my cover saved serpent with my dragons, to which he kills all of them in further shooting.

My turn sees storm guardians and a DA squad from reserve come in. In shooting my other fire dragon unit blows up a fire prism, and I manage to blow off a BL on another serpent. I shoot than assault the 10 man DA with my council and wipe them out. I also halve the other squad.


Turn 3-5:
At this point over an hour has passed and we are only starting turn 3 (mainly due to him slow playing like crazy and the many rules disagreements and the countless judges we needed). I also stopped taking pictures of this game since, well it was an incredibly gakky way to end a day, and I defintly was not enjoying this game.

We basically rush to get turns 3-5 in the remaining time, and even when the 20 minutes is called hes still taking his sweet time on his turn 5 when I still to get my turn in. We also had another rules disagreement on disembarking and moving flatout. I guess me playing an entire skimmer army for a year now means I have no idea what im talking about, since the judge didnt agree with me again (well that was until I showed him the entry in rule book stating exactly that you CANT do that). I realize the judges were volunteers but these are kinda basic rules that people didnt seem to know.

In addition, as Im trying to move faster to get the remaining turns of the game in, I rolled for my remaining tank reserve before fortuning myself (I know that psychic powers happen before reserves, but I hadnt even moved anything on the board and had caught the mistake right after rolling for the reserve). Instead of being a good sport about it since were both 1-3 and not competing for anything anymore and letting me just roll for my fortune, he went to the judges about it......like ffs, this should basically a friendly game at this point since its the end of the day. Anyways, he reluctantly let me cast fortune on myself......thanks......

Anyways, I ended up losing the game 1 objective to 0 (major contest fest on turn 5). His dice were also incredibly hot on turn 5, he wrecked 3 tanks in a row all with single shot weapons. 3 shots, 3 pens, 3 wrecks......4+/4+/5+.


Overall thoughts on the day and my army:

Alright so overall I lost the roll to go first 3/4 times, I lost my seer council 3/4 games, and I only won one game. Obviously a terrible showing for myself, and my dice really just werent with me that day. I failed more than enough 3+ re-roll saves, and never managed to do more than weapon destroy tanks in shooting....I think I only wrecked a handfull of tanks all day throughout all 4 games. For the most part my opponents were are all great (except for the obvious) and I had a really good time at the event. Like I said in my first post, the terrain on the bottom tables defintly was something to be desired, as can be seen in the pictures. I wasnt overally thrilled with the poor judge rulings either, it seemed like the judges were just going off the top of their head instead of trying to find it in the rulebook and confirm their decisions (again i realize they were only volunteers, just trying to improve the next NOVA). I defintly thought my army would have been a lot more competitive than it was, I never really took into consideration VPs when desigining my army list, and as I found out a gigantic rock in VPs really does not work, as I lost 600 VP in most of my games (instead of say 3 KP). I will not be taking the autarch anymore as it was incredibly terrible and never did anything for me. The nightspinner also was hit and miss.....it seemed to do just okay overall. My army seemed to really lack and killing power (i thought the council was going to be my killing power....). I dont think Ill be reworking the army to much as I plan to build an army that has a much more competitive edge (not to be a WAAC gamer, but there are simply just better books out there). Anyways, thanks to Mike for the event, and thanks for reading. Close up pictures of my army can be found in my link in my sig.

Man, that bites about all the rules. I suppose that is what you get when you try to cheat less.

Thanks for reports.

Not sure why you had an issue with Perils and Fortune, Perils forces you to re-roll all successful saves and Fortune allows you to re-roll all failed saves but because you can't re-roll and re-roll they essentially cancel each other out. RAW you should roll a dice, ignore the result, and re-roll it whether you passed or failed but its usually just easier to say they cancel out and just roll once.

Generally I would expect judges to try and go off the top of their head as long as they are confident in their ruling, it keeps the game flowing much better. If however they aren't 100% on something then they need to take the time to look it up. In any case if you know there is something in the rulebook which covers your situation you should easily be able to find it yourself and sort it out between yourselves without needing a judge at all.

While VPs do somewhat discourage rock units like the Council (which I have to say is brave choice knowing the number of Rune Priest and Hoods you would probably be facing) I think if you are going to take one then you at least need to max it out. Either way its going to be a big chunk of your points so you need to get as much out of it as you can. 6 Warlocks just isn't enough bodies even with the 3+/4++ and as you don't put out huge amounts of damage (i.e you don't ignore saves so rely on mass wounds) you want as many as you can get.

The problem with a jetseer army is that you have to build around it. Here you have what is primarily a mech army with a jetseer council thrown in. In such an army they should act as a distraction unit/fire magnet/tarpit unit at best. You should be willing to sacrifice them.

In a true jetseer list, you need redundancy...namely, 2 squads of jetseers with 2 farseers. Then some fire dragons in wave serpents and jetbike troops. Lastly, I'd go with holofielded fire prisms for the heavies.

Problems aside, nice battle report.

Nice report I love the paint work on the blue army. Kicks ass!

Well, that's nothing! I lost my seer council all four games. Ended up winning three of them though.

I think if your dice had been hotter, you would have had matches one and two. Match four... glad I didn't have to face him. He actually was playing next to me during round~something, and he commented on my vypers with what seemed to be utter disdain.

Better luck next year, and you deserve it with such a beautiful army!

thanks for all the comments, I defintly learned a lot about the seer council. And this was basically something I built going into the NOVA, with basically no play testing just a theory of how it should or would work. And it didnt pan out all that well. I defintly think the council needed to be bigger or not at all. Which is a pain, since it was a nightmare to build just the 6 I have lol

I've had bad experiences in the past with rules judges. They just generally make assumptions about the rules and don't actually know how things really work. When I've got things in my own codex that clearly state how something works and the rules judge says otherwise it's a massive time.

Psychic powers don't happen before reserves rolls, but they do happen before you actually move any of your units on the table.

The judge was 100% correct about fortune vs. perils. You were correct about flat-out and disembarking. I guess we're all human.

Your experience with the Council mirrors my experiences with them. The Autarch is useless, and they really aren't as uber killy/survivable as people make them out to be.

Really, their biggest advantage is that people do fear them, and if left alone they can kill things dead. So really you need to use that fear to your advantage in order to provide openings for the rest of your army. Everything will be shooting at the Council, which means nothing is shooting at the rest of your stuff. Just accept the fact that the Council will die, and things will work out

Nice reps, and better luck next year

If you had left the autarch out, and just brought more warlocks, to try to max out the council, it increases their capability a lot.

willydstyle wrote:If you had left the autarch out, and just brought more warlocks, to try to max out the council, it increases their capability a lot.

yea the lack of playtesting due to trying to build and paint most of the army for the event meant I didnt know how well or crappy the unit would perform. Defintly no autarch and more warlocks was needed

Great bat reps with nice pictures. The tournament sounded like a lot of fun and it sounds like you had a lot of fun for the most part so that is good. I can sympathize with your last bat rep I found that there is nothing more annoying in all of WH40k then to go up against some one who plays your same army and misinterprets the rules. Ive had more that one game where I had to bust open my codex on someone with the same freaking codex because they wouldn't trust me AT ALL about the rules even though we play the same freaking army.

In short read your codexes and BRB people.

Nice report and a beautiful army you have there. Better luck next year, man.

Reecius wrote:Nice report and a beautiful army you have there. Better luck next year, man.

I actually did quite poorly on the painting scores.....Not sure what the judges were looking for but my painting scores were much lower than I had anticipated.

Thanks anyways

Me too Mafty. I didn't think a 65/100 for At a Glance worked but meh.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/294553.page

I did try multiple times before the event to find out if the Single Miniature/Single Conversion were going to count toward the total paint score. Didn't get a response on it and then find out now that they counted for 1/3 of your painting score (ish). If I'd known that I probably just would have played the wolves and built a modified list since I'd left 2 models from my standard one back in Cali

Mafty if its any consolation yours was one of my favorite armies at the tournament for style/display (loved the water effects on the display board).

Hulksmash wrote:Me too Mafty. I didn't think a 65/100 for At a Glance worked but meh.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/294553.page

I did try multiple times before the event to find out if the Single Miniature/Single Conversion were going to count toward the total paint score. Didn't get a response on it and then find out now that they counted for 1/3 of your painting score (ish). If I'd known that I probably just would have played the wolves and built a modified list since I'd left 2 models from my standard one back in Cali

howd you score on painting?

VirusSD1 wrote:Mafty if its any consolation yours was one of my favorite armies at the tournament for style/display (loved the water effects on the display board).

thanks Virus. What army did you bring?

I think maybe the judges thought you can buy farseers on jetbikes? lol......not sure how that conversion netted me only 50/100 (I looked at the score sheet and 50/100 is scoring really low on the conversion aspect of things), I consider the conversion fairly extensive, maybe Im over compensating for the work and its simplier to others.


But I do appreciate the comments Virus, I actually recieved a ton of good comments from many people at the event on my army.

I scored 68/100, 45/100, 65/100 .63 on the sheet I think.

I had the same thing Mafty. People came by commenting on the coolness all day but I figure that when it's subjective I'm going to be missing points for being from out of region. That's not saying that it was intentional I think it's just locals tend to know how painting works and people from out of state don't I probably wouldn't have gotten a 68/100 for the army as a whole out here but then, I know what the judges are looking for

Mafty wrote:

We have a pretty serious rules disagreement about perils of the warp and fortune and the judge does not agree with me (fwiw, I think its played if your fortuned and fail your perils test (im taking it on 3d6 from other warding, but I have witnessing) you can retake your invul because of fortune. The judge disagreed with me because perils makes you re-roll a sucessful save, so either way you end up rerolling the first result. So in his view, anything that makes a double re-roll cancels eachother out. Except IMO if you pass the test the first time, it benefits you more, since you dont have to reroll your 4+. Anyways, I took the wound on my farseer). I flatout my fire dragons and move up my council and wreck a 5 man DA serpent.

Sorry, but I have a question. You said that you are taking your inv. save against perils. Why weren't you using your ghosthelm against it? That's a direct save against PotW and isn't an inv so you don't have to re-roll it if you make it. Or am I really off base?

I brought the big Thunderwolf Cavalry list . Here is a picture of the army (just not at Nova). I agree the conversion is a bit low considering for a similar conversion I received
85/100 for my TWC. Like I said though I enjoyed your army and display board and was sad to read your battle reports since you seemed to have a tough go of things tactically.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/6/24/115235_md-1850%20Tournament%2C%20My%20Army.JPG

VirusSD1 wrote:I brought the big Thunderwolf Cavalry list . Here is a picture of the army (just not at Nova). I agree the conversion is a bit low considering for a similar conversion I received
85/100 for my TWC. Like I said though I enjoyed your army and display board and was sad to read your battle reports since you seemed to have a tough go of things tactically.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/6/24/115235_md-1850%20Tournament%2C%20My%20Army.JPG

Yeh the thunderwolfs looked awsome and I got to look at the things all game cuz they would not die! (P.S. virus I'm the guy that you beat first round)

Your army was pretty Virus 85/100 is very good considering I got a 65/100 for my conversion model

Oh dear, your opponent sounds like hell on toast.

If its any consolation your army looks awesome.

I have never seen eldar vs eldar before. Also really nice board and paint job.

It looks like my original question got caught up in the quote I was trying to use and didn't show up right, so I'll repost.

Was there some reason that you could not use your ghosthelm save? Just wondering why you didn't use the save that's better and ment just for PotW. You also would not have had to re-roll a success since it is not an inv save, and your fourtune would have allowed you to re-roll it if you missed. Also, you missed the number of DA bladestorm shots also. It's 32 not 33.

Nice report and a nicely painted army. Just one question, why do you think that the average number of wounds should be 10 and not 16 from 33 hits? He actually rolled the exact average (rounding down)...

kahos_angel wrote:It looks like my original question got caught up in the quote I was trying to use and didn't show up right, so I'll repost.

Was there some reason that you could not use your ghosthelm save? Just wondering why you didn't use the save that's better and ment just for PotW. You also would not have had to re-roll a success since it is not an inv save, and your fourtune would have allowed you to re-roll it if you missed. Also, you missed the number of DA bladestorm shots also. It's 32 not 33.

Sorry I failed the ghosthelm, thought that was obvious as I was onto the invul part.

VirusSD1 wrote:I brought the big Thunderwolf Cavalry list . Here is a picture of the army (just not at Nova). I agree the conversion is a bit low considering for a similar conversion I received
85/100 for my TWC. Like I said though I enjoyed your army and display board and was sad to read your battle reports since you seemed to have a tough go of things tactically.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/6/24/115235_md-1850%20Tournament%2C%20My%20Army.JPG

Not sure I saw your army, I saw a TWC list, and I think I commetned on it to the owner, but not sure it was your list....looks good fromt he picture though, you scored very well on painting.

tedurur wrote:Nice report and a nicely painted army. Just one question, why do you think that the average number of wounds should be 10 and not 16 from 33 hits? He actually rolled the exact average (rounding down)...

33x.66=21x.5=10.8.......so either 10 or 11 wounds, not 16. Im T4 on jetbikes

Nice report.
As said elsewhere, it was not an environment for a Seer Council.