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Brookgrim wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48H34ukFe8g

ELDAR VICTORY

Classic.

A summary of confirmed details for those still wondering about certain things, taken from that video and my own White Dwarf;

Wraithknight
1) It is a Gargantuan Creature. No mention on if it is a Lord of War.
2) The Ghostglaive is a Destroyer weapon for the Wraithknight only, meaning the Wraithlord uses the same weapon without it being a Destroyer weapon.
3) All Distortion weapons are Destroyer weapons, meaning that the Wraithcannon, Heavy Wraithcannon, D-Cannon (the artillery unit), D-Scythes and Heavy D-Scythes are all Destroyer weapons assuming none lost the Distort rule.
4) You can legally take up to 12 of these in that new Decurion style detachment via one of the Auxillary formations as you can take 12 Auxillary formations per 1 Core formation, basically rendering a Lord of War positional change pointless.
5) It still has 6 Wounds - the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage "half kills" it and is specified to do 3 Wounds to it.
6) It is not Initiative 1 either base or with the Ghostglaive, it strikes after the Initiative 9 Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster but before the Initiative 1 Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage. It is most likely still Initiative 5, making it even scarier than an Imperial Knight in combat.
7) In the "battle report", it takes on both of those Bloodthirsters and wins, it beats two Toxicrenes, then it pulps an Imperial Knight and a Transcendant C'tan in separate conflicts. It gets stomped by Deathwing Knights in Smite mode, however.

Windrider Jetbikes
1) They are exactly the same in terms of stats, special rules and so on; they are still 3+ armoured Eldar with Ballistic Skill 4 and the usual Eldar Jetbike rules. They are a Troops choice.
2) Each Windrider can take a Scatter Laser or Shuriken Cannon, not 1 in 3 like the old codex. Yes, this is as bonkers as we all initially feared.
3) Warlocks can now be purchased as part of the squad rather than having to purchase a Council and splitting them off as before. We can expect the same thing to happen with Guardians.
4) Ancient Doom and Battle Focus are still present, though any changes to either are unconfirmed. We can all hope that Battle Focus actually works for everyone that has it now, including Jetbikes.
5) Bladestorm is exactly the same as it was, as we all knew from the Harlequin codex.
6) All of the guns appear identical, save that the Scatter Laser no longer has the Laser Lock special rule.
7) Warlocks can only take Sanctic Daemonology and Runes of Battle. This might indicate that Eldar have a similar rule to Grey Knights where they can safely use Sanctic Daemonology but can never use Malefic Daemonology.

"Decurion" Detachment
1) Eldar have their own version of this, featuring Command, Core and Auxiliary choices. You can take 1-3 Core choices (all of them are Guardian themed, one being Jetbike oriented and all requiring one Vyper), 0-3 Command choices per Core choice and 1-12 Auxiliary choices per Core choice.
2) Wraithknights are part of two separate Auxillary choices, and as Auxiliary choices are 1-12 per Core choice, you can legally take 12 Wraithknights per Core choice as mentioned above.
3) The "army-buff" as per the Decurion is specifically related to mobility, though whether it will be solely tied to Battle Focus (seems to be the implication) or will just affect all units remains to be seen.

Additionally, the codex is indeed 160 pages. We seem to be getting some kind of special bonuses related to each Craftworld, but this isn't specifically outlined. Whether or not we get Craftworld rules ala Space Marine Chapter Tactics remains to be seen.

I bet mobility buffs end up being hit and run for the jet bikes. I mean we can't have them being tied up in combat now can we?

I made a sarcastic "the sky in fallin'" comment in the general thread about this, but wow, it kind of is so far. Wraith Knight needs a huge points increase and LoW status. Bikes need to be more expensive in points and FA. All distort should not be D. Jeez GW, does the CEO play Eldar or something?

 Rippy wrote:
I made a sarcastic "the sky in fallin'" comment in the general thread about this, but wow, it kind of is so far. Wraith Knight needs a huge points increase and LoW status. Bikes need to be more expensive in points and FA. All distort should not be D. Jeez GW, does the CEO play Eldar or something?

I very strongly doubt the CEO Tom Kirby has anything to do with ever playing tabletop games. In fact, if I remember right, he is quoted as saying that he hates fantasy and enjoys Jane Austen novels.

EDIT: Forgot, Tom's "just" chairman now. He couldn't really ethically hold both spots, so now it's a new guy, but I think chairman still runs the show.

 Rippy wrote:
I made a sarcastic "the sky in fallin'" comment in the general thread about this, but wow, it kind of is so far. Wraith Knight needs a huge points increase and LoW status. Bikes need to be more expensive in points and FA. All distort should not be D. Jeez GW, does the CEO play Eldar or something?

Good ol' Phil K-eldar-lly probably had input

Who left the office Jokaero to edit the White Dwarf?

Well, I don't know about everyone else but I'm going to enjoy surprising the folks I play with using a ridiculously overpowered force for a game and then using every bad unit possible after the trolling fun has worn off. Banshees suddenly got more inviting. My opponent needs something they can kill without taking extreme loses trying.

 Rippy wrote:
I made a sarcastic "the sky in fallin'" comment in the general thread about this, but wow, it kind of is so far. Wraith Knight needs a huge points increase and LoW status. Bikes need to be more expensive in points and FA. All distort should not be D. Jeez GW, does the CEO play Eldar or something?

Bikes are the same points costs and are Troops, no stat or special rule changes at all; the only changes to them specifically are that you can purchase Warlocks for the unit and each model can now take either a Scatter Laser or Shuriken Cannon.
As for the other stuff, we have no idea what the points cost or slot of a Wraithknight is. We do know that the "Decurion-style" detachment lets you take up to 12 per Core choice though, so you can still spam them regardless of if they are a Lord of War.
But yeah, distort weapons being destroyer weapons is bonkers, a basic squad of 5 Wraithguard jumping out of a Wave Serpent used to take off a few hull points from a Super Heavy or a few wounds from something else, now they will outright kill those same units with the average three-four hits....and don't start me on D-Scythes

Caederes wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I made a sarcastic "the sky in fallin'" comment in the general thread about this, but wow, it kind of is so far. Wraith Knight needs a huge points increase and LoW status. Bikes need to be more expensive in points and FA. All distort should not be D. Jeez GW, does the CEO play Eldar or something?

Bikes are the same points costs and are Troops, no stat or special rule changes at all; the only changes to them specifically are that you can purchase Warlocks for the unit and each model can now take either a Scatter Laser or Shuriken Cannon.
As for the other stuff, we have no idea what the points cost or slot of a Wraithknight is. We do know that the "Decurion-style" detachment lets you take up to 12 per Core choice though, so you can still spam them regardless of if they are a Lord of War.
But yeah, distort weapons being destroyer weapons is bonkers, a basic squad of 5 Wraithguard jumping out of a Wave Serpent used to take off a few hull points from a Super Heavy or a few wounds from something else, now they will outright kill those same units with the average three-four hits....and don't start me on D-Scythes

I'm skeptical about the wraithguard getting straight up D weapons. Maybe on a 6 or something, or the whole unit can combine fire or some junk.

 Colpicklejar wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I made a sarcastic "the sky in fallin'" comment in the general thread about this, but wow, it kind of is so far. Wraith Knight needs a huge points increase and LoW status. Bikes need to be more expensive in points and FA. All distort should not be D. Jeez GW, does the CEO play Eldar or something?

Bikes are the same points costs and are Troops, no stat or special rule changes at all; the only changes to them specifically are that you can purchase Warlocks for the unit and each model can now take either a Scatter Laser or Shuriken Cannon.
As for the other stuff, we have no idea what the points cost or slot of a Wraithknight is. We do know that the "Decurion-style" detachment lets you take up to 12 per Core choice though, so you can still spam them regardless of if they are a Lord of War.
But yeah, distort weapons being destroyer weapons is bonkers, a basic squad of 5 Wraithguard jumping out of a Wave Serpent used to take off a few hull points from a Super Heavy or a few wounds from something else, now they will outright kill those same units with the average three-four hits....and don't start me on D-Scythes

I'm skeptical about the wraithguard getting straight up D weapons. Maybe on a 6 or something, or the whole unit can combine fire or some junk.

Oh god... D-scythes will be nasty if they are straight up Strength-D.

if true, I'm going to repaint all my wraithguard flesh coloured with red heads. Get the true meaning out of the word "D" for them.

I cant believe guardians now have 5+ invul saves.... GW LOGIC!

 Tomb King wrote:
I cant believe guardians now have 5+ invul saves.... GW LOGIC!

Huh? Where did you get that from?

I think it's likely that distort will only come in to play on to-wound rolls of 6. That would make it a lot less scary, but still terrifying for d-scythes.

Consider attaching a WWP archon to a unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard, then DS'ing next to a blob of warriors or something. You're gonna get like 20 hits easily at AP2, then rack up the 6's on to-wound to ignore FNP and RP.

If this was magic the gathering, those bikes would be on a tourney banned list in like a week like skullclamp was.

Someone needs to tell Phil to stop being so biased for his favorite army. At least ward had like 3 or so that you could tell he liked a lot. Phil literally comes across as that 8 year old that makes a little game where his own faction is amazing and insists that others use the other factions.

Let me ask a stupid question:

Does the WD say that Scatter Lasers are still Strength 6?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think it's likely that distort will only come in to play on to-wound rolls of 6. That would make it a lot less scary, but still terrifying for d-scythes.

Consider attaching a WWP archon to a unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard, then DS'ing next to a blob of warriors or something. You're gonna get like 20 hits easily at AP2, then rack up the 6's on to-wound to ignore FNP and RP.

I'd say that would be less scary than they are now. Currently a 6 to wound is an instant death wound, going str d would make it slightly less effective against some targets.

Oh and attaching the WWP Archon to that is as amazing as it sounds, although I usually put them in a Wave Serpent too for extra fun

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Let me ask a stupid question:

Does the WD say that Scatter Lasers are still Strength 6?

Yeah, it does. 36" Range, S6 Heavy 4

Did not see anything about Laser-lock, so I'm assuming it's gone.

 ronin_cse wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think it's likely that distort will only come in to play on to-wound rolls of 6. That would make it a lot less scary, but still terrifying for d-scythes.

Consider attaching a WWP archon to a unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard, then DS'ing next to a blob of warriors or something. You're gonna get like 20 hits easily at AP2, then rack up the 6's on to-wound to ignore FNP and RP.

I'd say that would be less scary than they are now. Currently a 6 to wound is an instant death wound, going str d would make it slightly less effective against some targets.

Oh and attaching the WWP Archon to that is as amazing as it sounds, although I usually put them in a Wave Serpent too for extra fun

An instant death wound on a six? That's adorable. Do you know what D does on a six?

 ronin_cse wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
I cant believe guardians now have 5+ invul saves.... GW LOGIC!

Huh? Where did you get that from?

I am kind of guessing at this point and it sounded silly so its plausible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thud wrote:

 ronin_cse wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think it's likely that distort will only come in to play on to-wound rolls of 6. That would make it a lot less scary, but still terrifying for d-scythes.

Consider attaching a WWP archon to a unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard, then DS'ing next to a blob of warriors or something. You're gonna get like 20 hits easily at AP2, then rack up the 6's on to-wound to ignore FNP and RP.

I'd say that would be less scary than they are now. Currently a 6 to wound is an instant death wound, going str d would make it slightly less effective against some targets.

Oh and attaching the WWP Archon to that is as amazing as it sounds, although I usually put them in a Wave Serpent too for extra fun

An instant death wound on a six? That's adorable. Do you know what D does on a six?

Strength D on a 2-5 is still nasty.

 ronin_cse wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think it's likely that distort will only come in to play on to-wound rolls of 6. That would make it a lot less scary, but still terrifying for d-scythes.

Consider attaching a WWP archon to a unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard, then DS'ing next to a blob of warriors or something. You're gonna get like 20 hits easily at AP2, then rack up the 6's on to-wound to ignore FNP and RP.

I'd say that would be less scary than they are now. Currently a 6 to wound is an instant death wound, going str d would make it slightly less effective against some targets.

Oh and attaching the WWP Archon to that is as amazing as it sounds, although I usually put them in a Wave Serpent too for extra fun

How would you resolve that? On a roll of 6 you roll again on the D-strength chart ignoring rolls of "1"?

Colpicklejar wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I made a sarcastic "the sky in fallin'" comment in the general thread about this, but wow, it kind of is so far. Wraith Knight needs a huge points increase and LoW status. Bikes need to be more expensive in points and FA. All distort should not be D. Jeez GW, does the CEO play Eldar or something?

Bikes are the same points costs and are Troops, no stat or special rule changes at all; the only changes to them specifically are that you can purchase Warlocks for the unit and each model can now take either a Scatter Laser or Shuriken Cannon.
As for the other stuff, we have no idea what the points cost or slot of a Wraithknight is. We do know that the "Decurion-style" detachment lets you take up to 12 per Core choice though, so you can still spam them regardless of if they are a Lord of War.
But yeah, distort weapons being destroyer weapons is bonkers, a basic squad of 5 Wraithguard jumping out of a Wave Serpent used to take off a few hull points from a Super Heavy or a few wounds from something else, now they will outright kill those same units with the average three-four hits....and don't start me on D-Scythes

I'm skeptical about the wraithguard getting straight up D weapons. Maybe on a 6 or something, or the whole unit can combine fire or some junk.

Nope. Distortion weapons are Destroyer weapons. It's pretty clear about that in the White Dwarf entry. This also means Illic Nightspear's sniper rifle is a Destroyer weapon if it retains the Distort rule...

Tomb King wrote:I cant believe guardians now have 5+ invul saves.... GW LOGIC!

Where did you find that? You may have mistaken the Mesh Armour for providing a 5+ armour save.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Let me ask a stupid question:

Does the WD say that Scatter Lasers are still Strength 6?

Yes. Scatter Lasers are exactly the same, save that they no longer have Laser Lock.

ronin_cse wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think it's likely that distort will only come in to play on to-wound rolls of 6. That would make it a lot less scary, but still terrifying for d-scythes.

Consider attaching a WWP archon to a unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard, then DS'ing next to a blob of warriors or something. You're gonna get like 20 hits easily at AP2, then rack up the 6's on to-wound to ignore FNP and RP.

I'd say that would be less scary than they are now. Currently a 6 to wound is an instant death wound, going str d would make it slightly less effective against some targets.

Oh and attaching the WWP Archon to that is as amazing as it sounds, although I usually put them in a Wave Serpent too for extra fun

Umm, I'm not sure you realize how much of a buff Distort weapons get from being Destroyer weapons. 6s to wound causing Instant Death versus 6s on the Destroyer chart doing D6+6 Wounds with no saves of any kind allowed....oh, and 2-5 on the Destroyer chart does D3 wounds to models meaning Distort weapons are now categorically stronger than ever before against everything. Oh, vehicles? I'm not Strength 10 and have to roll for armour penetration, I straight up remove D3 hull points plus resolving a penetrating hit on a 2-5 and remove D6+6 hull points on the roll of a 6. This is a massive buff.

I am just going to say once again that I firmly believe the WD writer got "D-weapon" confused with "D weapon" in the "D is for Destroyer" section. It's too silly if it is, even if it only applies to heavy wraithcannons, though the "D is for Destroyer" section outright says that heavy wraithcannons are examples of D weapons, which are Destroyer. Otherwise, the only thing comparable in damage output to a unit of ten Wraithguard is an Imperator Titan. Having D wraithcannons makes the sword kind of pointless, too, and what about the suncannon?

I just went through the video. Does it actually say that Wraithcannons (not Heavy Wraithcannons) still have Distort?

S10 auto-pens av10 and auto-glances av11.
A 1 on the d chart fails to hurt those vehicles.
That's literally the only time s10 outperforms the D. In all other 99.9999% of game states, D is strictly superior.

Caederes wrote:

Colpicklejar wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I made a sarcastic "the sky in fallin'" comment in the general thread about this, but wow, it kind of is so far. Wraith Knight needs a huge points increase and LoW status. Bikes need to be more expensive in points and FA. All distort should not be D. Jeez GW, does the CEO play Eldar or something?

Bikes are the same points costs and are Troops, no stat or special rule changes at all; the only changes to them specifically are that you can purchase Warlocks for the unit and each model can now take either a Scatter Laser or Shuriken Cannon.
As for the other stuff, we have no idea what the points cost or slot of a Wraithknight is. We do know that the "Decurion-style" detachment lets you take up to 12 per Core choice though, so you can still spam them regardless of if they are a Lord of War.
But yeah, distort weapons being destroyer weapons is bonkers, a basic squad of 5 Wraithguard jumping out of a Wave Serpent used to take off a few hull points from a Super Heavy or a few wounds from something else, now they will outright kill those same units with the average three-four hits....and don't start me on D-Scythes

I'm skeptical about the wraithguard getting straight up D weapons. Maybe on a 6 or something, or the whole unit can combine fire or some junk.

Nope. Distortion weapons are Destroyer weapons. It's pretty clear about that in the White Dwarf entry. This also means Illic Nightspear's sniper rifle is a Destroyer weapon if it retains the Distort rule...

Tomb King wrote:I cant believe guardians now have 5+ invul saves.... GW LOGIC!

Where did you find that? You may have mistaken the Mesh Armour for providing a 5+ armour save.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Let me ask a stupid question:

Does the WD say that Scatter Lasers are still Strength 6?

Yes. Scatter Lasers are exactly the same, save that they no longer have Laser Lock.

ronin_cse wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think it's likely that distort will only come in to play on to-wound rolls of 6. That would make it a lot less scary, but still terrifying for d-scythes.

Consider attaching a WWP archon to a unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard, then DS'ing next to a blob of warriors or something. You're gonna get like 20 hits easily at AP2, then rack up the 6's on to-wound to ignore FNP and RP.

I'd say that would be less scary than they are now. Currently a 6 to wound is an instant death wound, going str d would make it slightly less effective against some targets.

Oh and attaching the WWP Archon to that is as amazing as it sounds, although I usually put them in a Wave Serpent too for extra fun

Umm, I'm not sure you realize how much of a buff Distort weapons get from being Destroyer weapons. 6s to wound causing Instant Death versus 6s on the Destroyer chart doing D6+6 Wounds with no saves of any kind allowed....oh, and 2-5 on the Destroyer chart does D3 wounds to models meaning Distort weapons are now categorically stronger than ever before against everything. Oh, vehicles? I'm not Strength 10 and have to roll for armour penetration, I straight up remove D3 hull points plus resolving a penetrating hit on a 2-5 and remove D6+6 hull points on the roll of a 6. This is a massive buff.

Yes, it said "distort weapons are now destroyer weapons" in a paragraph blurb. It didn't show us the weapon profile, or the unit profile. We learned that space marines could summon bloodthirsters through a paragraph like this. Then we learned that it was a WC 3 spell that destroyed the caster and auto-peril'd if failed.

I'm just saying you're jumping the gun here.

It's pretty simple logic dude....distortion weapons are destroyer weapons. It says the Heavy Wraithcannon is an example of this, meaning there is more than one distortion/destroyer weapon in the codex. It's a pretty safe bet the same applies to basic Wraithcannons....

 Thud wrote:

 ronin_cse wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think it's likely that distort will only come in to play on to-wound rolls of 6. That would make it a lot less scary, but still terrifying for d-scythes.

Consider attaching a WWP archon to a unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard, then DS'ing next to a blob of warriors or something. You're gonna get like 20 hits easily at AP2, then rack up the 6's on to-wound to ignore FNP and RP.

I'd say that would be less scary than they are now. Currently a 6 to wound is an instant death wound, going str d would make it slightly less effective against some targets.

Oh and attaching the WWP Archon to that is as amazing as it sounds, although I usually put them in a Wave Serpent too for extra fun

An instant death wound on a six? That's adorable. Do you know what D does on a six?

Well yeah but if it was Str D on a 6 you would have to roll another 6 for the really nasty stuff. D3 wounds is still bad of course, but might be less so than ID.

Of course I doubt that would be the case, that would just be too clunky. Rolling a 6 to wound and then getting a chance of it doing no wounds would just be silly.

Caederes wrote:
It's pretty simple logic dude....distortion weapons are destroyer weapons. It says the Heavy Wraithcannon is an example of this, meaning there is more than one distortion/destroyer weapon in the codex. It's a pretty safe bet the same applies to basic Wraithcannons....

I'll put down a hundo that wraithguard do not have unmitigated D-weapons. Take it, man. Safe bet.