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@ Alph - Pedantry wasn't the intent, was just drawing more on personal experience there with the various games that I've played over the years is all.

I'm not heavily opinionated on the topic, I just want a quick mass-battle game where I still have the option to use movement trays if I want. Individually moving models takes ages and that's the real thing that slows the game down.

Casualty removal will help a little with that since you don't have to move the dead guys, but not nearly as much as use of a movement tray will.

The side-effect is also that it could make shooting and melee a lot slower if the system moves to individual combat and shooting as well... and this is before I even begin to mention all the tedious meta-gamey stuff that has sprung up around 40k's long-winded wound allocation and casualty removal system over the years.

That forms the bulk of the reason why I'm hesitant about seeing it added to Warpath, *not* removed from 40k... approaching a rules debate with the assumption that Warpath is supposed to be 40k lite is an extremely bad idea. People make the same mistake about KoW all the time, especially those who just skim read the rules for 5 minutes instead of getting some models out and playing a game, which is what feedback should really be based on.. real-life playtesting, not armchair game development.

@ Da Boss: A lot of the people asking for it last year were basing their argument on only ever having played 40k, and wanting the rules to be more like 40k, rather than for the reasons which you two have gone into, which is why I asked for a more detailed explanation, to see what the thought process behind that comment was. That's all. You've both got good reasons (I strongly agree with Alph's point about it making more sense for loose formations because of the visual element) , and your point about not moving dead models was one that hadn't occured to me since all my Warpath models are on movement trays.

*Personal opinion is that WotR was the best set of rules GW has done in recent years, since the movement trays really cut down on the chore of having to move hundreds of models, and also the empty gaps left behind in a ranked movement tray instantly let you see how many "wounds" had been inflicted on the unit already.. so, it was like an element-based game that used empty slots in the base as visual aids/ wound markers rather than putting counters on the table. Worked well, the game was great as a mid-point between skirmish and mass-battle.

**********************************************

Edit: More juicy rumours, fresh from the distributors who post this stuff online!

NYA MGE DBF11-1 DB Midgard Delvers $24.99
NYA MGE DBF70-1 DB Forge Father MVP $9.99
NYA MGE DBH11-1 DB Trontek 29er's $24.99
NYA MGE DBH70-1 DB Human MVP $9.99
NYA MGE DBM01-1 Dreadball Futuristic Sports Game $79.99
NYA MGE DBO11-1 DB Greenmoon Smackers $24.99
NYA MGE DBO70-1 DB Goblin MVP $9.99
NYA MGE DBV11-1 DB Skittersneak Stealers $24.99
NYA MGE DBV70-1 DB Veer-myn MVP

- Sci-fi football game from Mantic called "Dreadball".

- Released in November.

- Looks like 4 different teams and a character for each will be released alongside the main boxed game.

scarletsquig wrote:

Forgefathers did a much better job of coming across as alien with their armour design, and in their background where they are the hard counter to the Corporation and give away their weapons tech to any alien species surrounding their space to create a buffer zone to prevent to Corp from getting close. Also, their starships are massively superior to the Corporation ones. They're a really great, serious and modern take on "space dwarfs" without a hint of campiness (if you leave off the fantasy heads).

Where can I find this background? Now I'm really interested in Forge Fathers.

^ Issue 5 of the Mantic Journal, which was given away in their newsletter last year.

Here's a link:

http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e62f0c35454fa3ba687404d69/files/MJ_Issue_5.pdf?utm_source=Mantic+Games+Newsletter&utm_campaign=221b769020-Mantic_Games_Newsletter_124&utm_medium=email

Forgefather background starts on page 26.

Huh. I downloaded that and I thought I had read it, but apparently not. I bet I read the Corporation Dossier and got them confused...

Thanks, Scarlet!

scarletsquig wrote:

- Sci-fi football game from Mantic called "Dreadball".

- Released in November.

- Looks like 4 different teams and a character for each will be released alongside the main boxed game.

I have to say thats a cool idea! I'm thinking of something like Rollerball (the 70's movie) and the Speedball computer game?!

Any news on who is writing the rules?

Im assuming its too early to know if DreadBall is actually getting new sculpts, or they're just reusing the regular warpath models with a few metal/restic arms holding footballs.

Im hoping its not the latter as some of the Warpath models are in extremely static poses. (ForgeFathers for example.)

$80. That's not exactly DKH price point anymore...
OTOH if it fills a BBesque niche it's going to get plenty of sales anyway.

Price point for the boxed game looks quite expensive. I wonder what it'll contain?

scarletsquig - thanks for the summary of your position - I appreciate it!

I'm interested in giving Warpath a try, as 40K 6th isn't really appealing to me upon my first impressions.

Wouldn't it be ironic to use GW figs to play Mantic's game?!?

Having said that, I'm liking the look of the Forgefathers, so...

Not to mention the subtle jab at dreadfleet..

I am using WHFB Dark Elves for my Twilight Kin allies, cause they are cheaper and look better to me, Alpharius.

Alpharius wrote:scarletsquig - thanks for the summary of your position - I appreciate it!

I'm interested in giving Warpath a try, as 40K 6th isn't really appealing to me upon my first impressions.

Wouldn't it be ironic to use GW figs to play Mantic's game?!?
Having said that, I'm liking the look of the Forgefathers, so...

Well, I'm sure a lot of "KoW armies" contain an awful lot of GW figures, after all.... especially at this stage of it's existence. And when/if I bother to get around to trying Warpath, I'm sure my Imperial Guard will be first to fight!

^ Yeah, most of the people playing Warpath at this point are using at least some GW models in their army, if not the whole army.

Same goes for KoW to a lesser extent, part of the appeal of the rules is that you don't have to buy anything right away if you've got a fantasy or 40k army.. you can literally just read the rules, write a list and get playing half an hour later.

Also, new Forgefather hero:

Yes I don't think they are that bothered by proxying, wasn't the army that won one of the official KoW tournaments a human one, and therefore comprised entirely of non-Mantic minis? Although admittedly, a new company has to make this kind of concession to try and muscle in on the market place - the real test will be when (or if) they become a big success, and if that policy remains..

Like the look of the new FF hero! Although he is lacking a cigar..

Pacific wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:
- Sci-fi football game from Mantic called "Dreadball".
- Released in November.
- Looks like 4 different teams and a character for each will be released alongside the main boxed game.

I have to say thats a cool idea! I'm thinking of something like Rollerball (the 70's movie) and the Speedball computer game?!

Keep in mind that since last year, Harry and Hastings predicted a new Bloodbowl starter box with 4 teams for October. Coincidence?
Esp. since the name is an obvious pun on Dreadfleet and Bloodbowl: Dread bowl -> Dreadball?
Also keep in mind that there have been 2 previous attempts to make a SciFi Bloodbowl:
One by Impact!, reknown for alternative Bloodbowl rules and miniatures ( http://www.impactminiatures.com/index.php?option=icrd ).
One by Privateer Press: Grind ( http://privateerpress.com/grind/ ).

New sprueless guy coming out later this year -- wouldn't surprise me if Mantic had a few new FF coming, so the arms could be switched up, etc.

Kroothawk wrote:

Pacific wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:
- Sci-fi football game from Mantic called "Dreadball".
- Released in November.
- Looks like 4 different teams and a character for each will be released alongside the main boxed game.

I have to say thats a cool idea! I'm thinking of something like Rollerball (the 70's movie) and the Speedball computer game?!

Keep in mind that since last year, Harry and Hastings predicted a new Bloodbowl starter box with 4 teams for October. Coincidence?
Esp. since the name is an obvious pun on Dreadfleet and Bloodbowl: Dread bowl -> Dreadball?
Also keep in mind that there have been 2 previous attempts to make a SciFi Bloodbowl:
One by Impact!, reknown for alternative Bloodbowl rules and miniatures ( http://www.impactminiatures.com/index.php?option=icrd ).
One by Privateer Press: Grind ( http://privateerpress.com/grind/ ).

The Impact game is not Scifi. It is modern day Roller Derby game.
Grind is not Scifi, It is a fantasy setting with steam powered robots. And plays more like a hockey or basketball game than a bloodbowl.

skrulnik wrote:

The Impact game is not Scifi. It is modern day Roller Derby game.

I think he may have meant to link to 'Elfball' also by Impact. It's a fantasy ball game, although distinct from Bloodbowl.
http://www.impactminiatures.com/index.php?option=elfball

This game, Kill Ball, is pretty fun:
http://www.impactminiatures.net/index.php?option=killball

Miniatures are by Impact, the game itself is produced by Travesty Games.
http://shop.travestygames.com/product/kill-ball

Think more in the lines of Speedball by the Bitmap Brothers, Kroothawk.

New post up on BoW for DreadBall, with pics:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/mantic-games/mantic-games-dreadball/





Love the look of that pitch!

The whole design looks like it's going to be wonderfully retro/ 80's TRON-style.

Hm, I dunno. I think the logo and map look a little sub-par compared to their other boxed product (and something like Sedition Wars). GW hiring Tears of Envy fulltime to work on books may have been a strategic move to get her skills and talent in presentation away from all of these smaller companies like Mantic & McVey. I hope they're placeholders.

Logo and board have a very 80s video game feel for sure. I like what I see so far.

I also like that concept art a lot.

Looking forward to hearing more.

~Eric

Taarnak is right; this game belongs in an arcade!

Looks like the first table top "sports" game I might ever buy.

Anyone else received their rules? I am liking what I have been reading. The initiative rules look like they'll add an interesting new dimension to the game, and hopefully they won't be too slow and clunky. It adds an interesting element of risk management, too. You can take the safe route and pass activation to your opponent after each activation, or you can take a gamble and activate another unit or two, at the risk of causing them to freeze up and passing the initiative that way. Very cleverly thought out I think. Also delighted that they've included the rules for diminishing the number of attacks from units with casualty removal- I would have been okay with it if they hadn't, but it makes sense. On paper, the system looks good. Just wish I had more lists to try it out with!

Edit: One thing just jumped out at me, looking at the new lists: the nerve value doesn't seem to go up anymore with increased unit numbers. This is hopefully a typo, or else large units are a terrible idea and MSU will rule the day.

Can you post them up at Dakka? I seem to have been removed from the mailing list.

If you PM me an email address, I can mail them to you.

Da Boss wrote:Edit: One thing just jumped out at me, looking at the new lists: the nerve value doesn't seem to go up anymore with increased unit numbers. This is hopefully a typo, or else large units are a terrible idea and MSU will rule the day.

Yep, we all noticed that one, and it's actually even worse than it seems at first glance.. due to the fact that Nerve tests aren't one-per-activation, they're once-per-shot (so 4 units causing 4 damage = 4 nerve checks).. plus the activation rules encourage massive MSU spam as well (think about it.. why risk failing activation tests, when you can opt out of the whole system and have all your units act in the final "leftover units" activation instead... which will then let you go nuts and trigger a ton of onslaught bonuses as you shoot the rest of your army at once. MSU-wars is a very big problem for a whole number of different reasons.

This will probably be the absolute first thing that get sorted out.

This is a completely new game, almost, in comparison to the rules released last year and should be treated as an alpha build in it's current state.

There's a wonderful rules discussion forum over on the mantic boards, for anyone genuinely interested.

Da Boss wrote:If you PM me an email address, I can mail them to you.

Thanks!
PM sent.

The new upcoming FF Hero really makes me wish Mantic would make a conversion set of legs for a more dynamic unit

^ They already do:

Drakkarim Legs Bits Pack

With similar packs for special and heavy weapons, torsos and heads.