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Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest





paradise on the vitae (Florida)

Kroothawk wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:Mantic is not making a Praetorians copy.
I know absolutely all of Mantic's rumours, and the only time I have ever seen Praetorians mentioned is here, on this forum, constantly repeated in Kroothawk's posts and Kroothawk's posts alone.

I was referring to this post:
BrookM wrote:They also went on to announce that the Corporation would be red coats in space (how original), that the Asterians would be pixies in space, the Z'zor would be hornets in space, rebels would be freedom fighters in space, Plague would be survival horror in space and the mention of an eight race, also in space. Ugh.

This was posted when some more modern concepts of corporation were already shown, but "red coats in Space" is an unambiguous reference to Victorian troops in space. But maybe BrookM just made a misguiding remark.


Not just Victorian troops, all the way back through to 1700 British troops wore and were called redcoats.

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Scotland

Someone earlier posted some fluff, seemingly a direct quote, that described the Corporation as having 'propaganda videos showing them heriocly slaughtering spear wielding savages' or somesuch.

I can see where the 'red coats in space' has come from. Dunno how you got to ripoff praetorians lol.

I am not saying they are original but I think the forgefathers aeshetically look very different from squats, the exo armour is the only exception imo. Also seeing as mantic had a dwarf line in their fantasy range surely it is logical that they would have them in their scifi range as well. If nothing else to guarantee some sales.

Mantic started their business ripping off GW with their Kings of War, that is very hard to deny imo. However imo their warpath is their attempt at being a bit more original.


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UK

Alternatively, you could argue that the company started off by offering a radically new and unique-looking line of models (the elves) that absolutely nobody bought because they didn't look anything like the GW models.

So, then they had to change up their business model to ape GW more closely before anyone would buy their stuff in large enough quantities to warrant plastics production.

The market is not Mantic's fault.

At the end of the day everyone just wants cheaper warhammer minis and nothing else, try personally investing £100k+ of your own money to release a new and radically unique range of really well-conceptualized plastic miniatures with top-notch sculpting, excellent background accompanied by a brilliant game... and you will fail hard because the market will look at your work and think "can't use it with warhammers, pass".

Ask any sculptor or manufacturer if they would consider making a plastic kit that had zero GW-usage and you'll probably get a "well, ideally, I'd love to, but..." kinda answer.

Bastion is the only current exception I can think of that isn't part of the pre-painted/ board game market, and they've already gone bankrupt once.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/01/04 09:29:35


   
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scarletsquig wrote:Alternatively, you could argue that the company started off by offering a radically new and unique-looking line of models (the elves) that absolutely nobody bought because they didn't look anything like the GW models.


Mantic's elf line is also bloody horrible models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 10:08:55


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scarletsquig wrote:Alternatively, you could argue that the company started off by offering a radically new and unique-looking line of models (the elves) that absolutely nobody bought because they didn't look anything like the GW models.

Have you considered other reasons?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 10:46:34


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Augsburg/Germany

The dragons were released more than a year later. And every company has its awfull models. (PP:Vaccuming Orboros, Dancing Warowolf, gaking Goat, GW: Walking IG-egg, stuff with more skulls on it than a whole undead army has troops, etc.)

And yes, most complains were that they were not heroic style and did not fit in with the GW elves. Simply check the old threads.

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Well, I don't like the Mantic Elves because of the look, being thinner than Kate Moss. Nobody would have complained about e.g. a Nightelf inspired army. Rackham had its own design as well and nobody complained about it.

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Well, I quite like the elf models* but I think Kate Moss is massively over-rated, so where does that put me?

* (with the exception of those dragon riders, but then every company has its stinkers as Duncan Idaho points out)

 
   
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That wholly depends on where you are right now.

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Kroothawk wrote:
Taking the only official characterization of a fraction seriously is an understandable "mistake", esp. when nobody cares to give proper quotes of the original sources. Esp. when the other fractions are still Squats, 2nd edition orks, LatD and bug Aliens.

But to stop this OT discussion, let's just agree that many people like the Mantic releases and I don't.


The word you're looking for in English is "Faction" - which covers groups of people, political groups, armed forces, etc. "Fraction" is a mathematical term, and is incorrect in it's use here (at least in English).

"Bug aliens" are as original a sci-fi concept as Tyranids are and were. IE they are a sci-fi staple, (just like Space Marines, for that matter!) so it makes sense that both GW and Warpath will feature them. If they look like not-tyranids, I'll gladly call a spade a spade. "Survival Horror" could mean many things. At this stage you calling them LatD is rather disingenuous until the concept sketches come out.

I think it's pretty clear that you appear to severely dislike Mantic for whatever reason.

   
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I think Mantic is hedging it's bets. It's making its own game, and that's cute, but lets be serious: it knows where the market is, and that's GW alternatives.

The elves were a new and different concept that was not well executed. I don't mind 'em, but they aren't great sculpts.

The dwarves and undead were better, if very generic. I actually quite like the feral looking orcs.

Warpath has been pretty disappointing, if only because we haven't actually seen any fully sci-fi plastic infantry. The vehicles and heros look good though.


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scipio.au wrote:I think it's pretty clear that you appear to severely dislike Mantic for whatever reason.

As said before, this is wrong. But like GW, Mantic seems to have no feedback loop of any kind to keep them from making catastrophic management decisions again and again. No surprise with so many ex-GW people working there.

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Kroothawk wrote:
scipio.au wrote:I think it's pretty clear that you appear to severely dislike Mantic for whatever reason.

As said before, this is wrong. But like GW, Mantic seems to have no feedback loop of any kind to keep them from making catastrophic management decisions again and again. No surprise with so many ex-GW people working there.


Fair or not, repeatedly making positive or negative comments about a company will make you, in the eyes of many, a fanboy/hater.

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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

I always thought that Mantic had pretty good customer feedback? Hasn't the one chap talked about stuff like that in the videos they release?

They're releasing a new upgrade kit for the FF which gives them a beefier armoured and sci-fi look, away from the KoW look of still having swords etc. That could well be because of the criticism aimed in their direction.

Weren't the KoW Undead wraiths released in resin as well as metal following fan feedback?

Perhaps someone else is in a better position to reply and know the exact extent of their customer interaction, but from a basic glance it certainly looks more involved than GW's. Although that is a silly point to make really, it could only be worse if they started including nail-bombs with their miniature kits.


 
   
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*post removed, and replaced with glitter and ponies*

This message was edited 18 times. Last update was at 2012/01/05 11:53:34


   
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scarletsquig wrote:I don't bother posting Mantic rumours to Dakka now unless someone specifically asks about something, it's just not worth the effort.
Do it for me then pretty please? I'll show you my signed Mantic card that I got when I was lucky with ordering from them on-line.

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Brazil

Elves are not bad, actually they are great.

And as i said alredy... dont feed the kroot guys...

If my post show some BAD spelling issues, please forgive-me, english is not my natural language, and i never received formal education on it... 
   
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Dusseldorf

Jesus. This mega-thread has been derailed. Kroot has already said he doesn't want to keep arguing so I think we can leave it there. Please can we leave it there?
Scarletsquig, I appreciate your rumour posts, please do post them here. If you feel certain posters are a problem, you can ignore them on Dakka.

I am excited to see what Mantic do with the plague. I hope it looks good. And I had an idea to use AoW berserkers as the Forgefather "scrapper" caste. Now I can't get the idea of converting up a technorabble of biker dwarves out of my head...



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Melbourne .au

Perkustin wrote:
Mantic started their business ripping off GW with their Kings of War, that is very hard to deny imo. However imo their warpath is their attempt at being a bit more original.


See, I don't think what Mantic is doing is conceptually original - I think it's pretty clear they're trying to tap into the much larger 40k market. (Which in itself is full of borrowed and stolen concepts, but I digress.) Whether the figures are direct rip-offs of GW's stuff is where it gets more interesting. The Corporation are obviously designed as stand-ins for IG, and I'm ok with that. Are they a direct copy of Elysians or any other GW-IG set? Nope (though wouldn't it be funny if they based some figures on WW2 Russians or Rambo wannabes!)

Orks? Sorry, Orx - sure - clearly they're based on 40k Orks, but they're pretty protected there. Forgefathers - I find them similar to many of the later Squat designs, only not as good. These Corporation guys? Humans in light sci-fi armour is too generic a concept to claim direct rip-offs, and GW itself has diluted the original IG "look" over the years with many many sub-ranges which at this stage means any human miniature with a gun works as Imperial Guard. I plan to press my Eureka Minaitures USMC, SEALs, and La Legion into IG service when they're not doing their true duty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kroothawk wrote:
scipio.au wrote:I think it's pretty clear that you appear to severely dislike Mantic for whatever reason.

As said before, this is wrong. But like GW, Mantic seems to have no feedback loop of any kind to keep them from making catastrophic management decisions again and again. No surprise with so many ex-GW people working there.


I disagree. It wasn't that long ago where both you and I were criticising the Forgefathers and Orx. Now they've released some preview models for what I have to say are nice looking but pretty generic sci-fi humans - obviously designed to be Imperial Guard proxies, but following no specific "rip-off" concepts, as generic sci-fi humans are a pretty generic concept in itself (see Aliens USCM etc etc) while you've gone off the deep end about Elysians, Praetorians and Lost and the Damned.


Polonius wrote:
Fair or not, repeatedly making positive or negative comments about a company will make you, in the eyes of many, a fanboy/hater.


It's not about repeatedly so much as it is about not being even-handed. If he simply said "I don't like those - they suck" that would be one thing - aesthetics are a personal choice and I can always agree to disagree there. Going into this much denial about how they're "so clearly an Elysian clone" is another thing - especially after multiple members have shown multiple times how they're actually not. There are some pretty well-established fanboi and hater posters here on Dakka whose posts are essentially self-parody at this point (and are on my ignore list as well). I've thought of KH as mostly level-headed (excepting his hang-ups about Polish Orks) to this point, so it'd be a shame to write him off as another Dakka nutjob.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/05 00:58:28


   
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Chicago

Da Boss wrote:Jesus. This mega-thread has been derailed. Kroot has already said he doesn't want to keep arguing so I think we can leave it there. Please can we leave it there?
Scarletsquig, I appreciate your rumour posts, please do post them here. If you feel certain posters are a problem, you can ignore them on Dakka.



quoted for truth, this thread needs more news and less rage. Its been tough to find recent Mantic updates when you have to scroll through all the bickering.

On a related to Mantic note I'm also not a big fan of there elves, maybe if I look at them they will grow on me but first impression makes me feel like something is off, just cant put my finger on it


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While one can argue the morality and/or legality of GW "compatible" stuff, it does enrich the 40K universe. Its kind of like musicians improvising on a theme. I love all the different "space dwarves" out there. Mantic's "corporation" will no doubt be the fodder for many new, creative IG regiments created by gamers. It would be interesting if they did the "space pixies" on their elf scale - it would make them more "alien". And gave them optional wings. That would be a cool without compromising their "eldar stand in" status.
   
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Thanks for all the insults, the trolling, and the false accusations. I will not comment on them, but I will keep my opinion, even if you think my opinion is false and I made up Alessio's characterization of the corporation. Can we get on now?

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UK

Da Boss wrote:Kroot has already said he doesn't want to keep arguing
Were we arguing? I'm sorry.

Kroothawk wrote:Thanks for all the insults, the trolling, and the false accusations.
Yes, you are right. Everyone other than you has been a really big meanie!

We've all been trolling and insulting and lying in the face of your reasonable, balanced and politely-expressed observations and we are all so very sorry to have upset you. <3

Now that we're all friends again, here's Mantic's release list for the next 2 months. Mostly a selection of minor stuff, since most of their efforts will be reserved for the Corporation release in March. I sent an email to Mantic last year asking if the orc flagger could be made into a blister (having to buy it together with the warlord on boar made it too pricy to get multiples), so I'm happy to see that on there.

Twilight Kin Assassin - £6.49 (new sculpt)
Twilight Kin Mega Army - £99.99 (hybrid metal/plastic based on the plastic elves, does a decent job of improving the look of the plastics).
Goblin Spearmen - £24.99 (intended as a tester release to gather opinions on the sculpts before going ahead with either plastic or restic, *not* the permanent and final release)
Goblin Mawbeast - £9.99
Abyssal Halfbreed Lord - £9.99
Dwarf King - £6.49
Orc Flagger - £7.49
Dwarf King’s Hold: Monsters Set - £14.99 (mixture of 20 different KoW models for use in DKH)
Forgefathers Tactical Upgrade set: £14.99 (10-model hybrid plastic/metal kit, includes enough metal torsos to replace all the 2-part clones, along with arms, enough enclosed helmets for the whole squad, flamer and rocket launcher)
Forgefathers Drakkarim team: £14.99 (5-model all-metal heavy weapon team).

In addition, some extra stuff I've heard:

5 games will be released in 2012:

- KoW 3rd edition Hardback rulebook (yes, the rules will still be free online)
- 2.0 Warpath rules (likely to be similar to the 2.0 KoW release with updated rules and 8 army lists)
- DKH: Ancient Grudge (already out)
- "Project Pandora" (not quite DKH in spaace, Jake has changed the gameplay quite a bit and only kept the core dice-rolling mechanics)
- 5th game. Total Wildcard, current leading rumour is "fantasy football game".

Worth noting at this point that elf scouts, dwarf ironclad command, orc greatax and zombies/ghouls all come with options to build them open-handed, without any weapons, so it is theoretically possible for mantic to go ahead and launch a new fantasy football game with 4 teams in plastic (and a bunch of supporting metals) right away with minimal effort.

KoW 3rd edition will include 2 new armies (for a total of 10 races, which KoW is likely to cap out at for the near future), which have not been decided upon yet. Ronnie is currently asking for internet feedback on what people would like to see.

More newsletter subscriber content in 2012.. the journal is being given away as a free download to subscribers rather than being sold in printed form (kind of a shame, I really like my printed copies, but I can see why they're doing it this way).

This message was edited 18 times. Last update was at 2012/01/05 12:06:41


   
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scarletsquig wrote:[Now that we're all friends again, here's Mantic's release list for the next 2 months....

...5 games will be released in 2012...

...- 2.0 Warpath rules (likely to be similar to the 2.0 KoW release with updated rules and 8 army lists)...


This is what I'm really excited about. After my first game of Warpath last week (read about it here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420343.page ) I'm really looking forward to using it now and then to get my now-rarely-used 40k figs on the table for a game that won't take 3+ hours.

Do we have any kind of confirmation that all the army lists will be released with the 2.0 rules? I really need enough army lists that I will be able to use outright or tweak them to accomadate 40k forces other than orks, Marines and IG.

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Really? A fantasy football game? I know they're trying to be a poor man's GW in so many ways, but for some reason that's what goes to far for me. I hope that rumor's false.

   
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The Fantasy Football game surprises me. IMHO, of all the Games Workshop game systems, BB is probably the most intuitive, fun to play and balanced (perhaps not internal team balance but overall).

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It really is just a rumour currently. Other rumour for the 5th game is "zombie hunter game", but that one is even more tenuous.

   
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AgeOfEgos wrote:The Fantasy Football game surprises me.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Neither would a SciFi corridor board game with humans vs. Alien bugs next year.

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If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

AgeOfEgos wrote:The Fantasy Football game surprises me. IMHO, of all the Games Workshop game systems, BB is probably the most intuitive, fun to play and balanced (perhaps not internal team balance but overall).


Me too, from what I can see it still gets pretty heavy use as well in clubs as well. And, as you say "GW's best ever game" is a phrase you often hear bandied about.

The only reasoning I can see from Mantic's point of view:
- BB doesn't really get any support from GW any more. The game is nestled away in the corner of the website.
- Teams are expensive, 30 quid or so for a new team nowadays right? And Ebay has become a haven for sharks concerning the older sculpt teams. Although there are alternatives from other companies, $20 or so for a team would be nice especially as you have to think of use in BB.
- The sculpts for some of the new teams aren't GWs best, I heard somewhere that they were used as test subjects for new sculptors.

 
   
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Blood Bowl turns 25 this year, so why not have them do a homage to it?

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