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2014/04/22 22:14:41
Subject: Jy2 Goes to Adepticon (WARNING - Lots of Pics! Batrep Links on p.1, Game #3 on p.5)
I don't want a new Necron codex. Night Scythes will go up in price.
In fun games I love bringing back my crypteks w/ ghost arks.
MSS will get nerfed. They Nerf everything that people really hate or remove it altogether. The Doom, Eldar anti psyker runes, and Vendettas to name a few. MSS have to be way up on that list. I wonder what will happen to Necrons with way more expensive Scythes and nerfed MSS.
But the thing with that is that those are things that need to be balanced, and most people see it that way. 100 point fliers with TL s7 4 shot weapons that get statistically BETTER with snapshotting and caries up to 15 models that it can drop off safely before or after moving and they still fire normally as well as taking no damage from the flier exploding...
all for 100 points.
So I'm sorry, but I find it hard to feel bad for you if it goes up 30-50 points
And MSS is something universally recognized as being hilariously points-efficient.
Yes, GW pays about as much attention to the rules as a high school senior does to homework, but nonetheless, occasionally they fix things that were undercosted. Vendetta? The fact that it was never, ever, ever, EVER a choice to bring a vendetta vs a valkyrie means there is an issue in rules that needs to be fixed.
As for Doom...I recognize the frustration with him being removed altogether. I get that. I have seen some truly fantastic conversions for him that are now just really fancy Zoanthropes. But many(I won't say all) agree that guy was one of the most undercosted characters in 5th edition. He made up his points like a Bike Army vs grots.
I am not saying "Ah HA! GW does us a service continually that we should be grateful for and overlook all the abuses they put us through!" But I am saying, recognize when something you are playing is undercosted. I have, at one time or another, owned every army except for Black Templar and SoB.
I know when something I am playing is undercosted. I play DE currently, and fully expect to see Baron reduced in power. I hope he does. I play Daemons, and am prepared for if the codex becomes even more about killing my own models. I played CSM in 5th, and knew that Lash would get nerfed(Though did not think it would get removed...Drat!)
In short, understand your codex. This is not an insult, but an exhortation. It makes games more enjoyable when the person doesn't say
"Pfft, Jetlock Council? That's not broken. My Jetlock council is totally beatable!".
Instead the person could say something like
"Rough game. Here are some ways you can better play against it. It is a tough list, but not invincible. One day your codex will have its day in the sun dude, don't sweat about it!".
See the difference? Hope this helps, and I genuinely apologize for the long-winded post
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:darkeldar 5000
2014/04/23 05:26:11
Subject: Jy2 Goes to Adepticon (WARNING - Lots of Pics! Batrep Links on p.1, Game #3 on p.5)
I actually hope they make the next dark eldar codex more powerful... I don't think they have a chance without eldar as an ally. Really only BeaStar and Venomspam is competitive now. They should be able to stand on their own. It was very disappointing for me that Vect is T3 and not Eternal Warrior... You never see Drazhar in any competitive builds.
As far as Necrons go I think their power level continues to slowly ebb with each new codex that's released so it's not a big deal to me.
Dozer Blades wrote: I actually hope they make the next dark eldar codex more powerful... I don't think they have a chance without eldar as an ally. Really only BeaStar and Venomspam is competitive now. They should be able to stand on their own. It was very disappointing for me that Vect is T3 and not Eternal Warrior... You never see Drazhar in any competitive builds.
As far as Necrons go I think their power level continues to slowly ebb with each new codex that's released so it's not a big deal to me.
I know exactly how you feel. I have over 6k in DE and I would love to field them standalone, but I know that I need a Farseer, 2x5 DA in serpents, 8 warp spiders and 3 war walkers :(
Vect, there is no reason whatsoever why he should be t3 without EW. Drazhar is EW...But Vect, the oldest dude in the codex? Naw...
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:darkeldar 5000
2014/04/23 13:41:58
Subject: Jy2 Goes to Adepticon (WARNING - Lots of Pics! Batrep Links on p.1, Game #3 on p.5)
I am actually fine with Vect not having EW and T3. In the fluff he is very old because he is smart bot because he can tank shots. ALL DE have the ability to postpone death through soul eating. I do think he needs a point drop to address this however, since he is basically a 1w model who pops after his first failed shadow field. If he were closer to the 200 mark and his weapon became AP2 I'd be happy. They need to redo the dais from the bottom up though. Hopefully by next year we get a new book with army wide point decreases (scourge are 22pt come on).
Be fair though, Vect is Murder on wheels to anything with a 3+ save or less. Yeah he relies on the Shadowfield, but that's something all Archon's do, the thing is IF he loses it then as long as you are careful what shot's he takes he still has 4 Wounds with a 4+ save and Feel No Pain, all with the ability to gain wounds back. For an Eldar, that is pretty dam survivable against bolter fire.
I would agree, down to 210pts with an AP 2 weapon. Just remember he has 6 attacks BASE which usually hit on 3's re-rolling 1's and wound on 3's re-rolling ones, it is not unusual to cause 5/6 wounds on the norm. On the charge i have had Vect single handedly kill a Wraithknight. Don't under estimate his combat ability, for who i think is the oldest mortal in existance he packs a hell of a punch.
2014/04/23 16:09:44
Subject: Jy2 Goes to Adepticon (WARNING - Lots of Pics! Batrep Links on p.1, Game #3 on p.5)
Roci wrote: A good friend plays DE, so I hope they get some love. At the same time, I sure hope it doesn't add to the Eldar/DE power builds if they do it.
Not sure how you get one without the other though.
I love my DE, and believe me they are still awesoem as a single detachment if you play them tight. I am looking forward to point drops and some of the silly artifacts getting tweaked into useful. Aside from that I am more frightened by the prsopect of losing things without models like hmmmm
Duke
Lady
Baron
Decapitator
technically Vect, but I know he will remain but that just shortens the list of who will get a model and survive the cut :/
I am sure they don't all make it, I like the Duke and Baron the most so I'll be happy if I keep them.
jy2 wrote: MSS needs a bump in price to about 25-30-pts. At the same time, it kinda boggles my mind how storm shield 3++'s cost only 15-20 points for Marine characters and yet necrons have to pay 45-pts for their 3++'s! And if bikes and jetbike characters can get Invuln's, why can't Destroyer Lords?!?
We'll see what happens when the next edition Necron codex comes out.
At the same time with the current codex, even at 45 points for the 3++, I would pay it gladly for my Destroyer Lords. They would go from ridiculous to amazing 1 man wrecking crews. Plus they would be even better tanks for the wraith stars.
2014/04/23 23:50:14
Subject: Jy2 Goes to Adepticon (WARNING - Lots of Pics! Batrep Links on p.1, Game #3 on p.5)
I am not saying they aren't under cost but if you fix all those Nercon issues they won't be competitive. I want a competitive army. The Eldar aren't getting any fixes anytime soon and are one of the most competitive armies out there. I want to see more competitive armies not less.
I mean really 60" ignores cover gun on a transport is just as silly as the Necron Night Scythe.
The problem is they release an under balanced codex like the Dark Angels then release an over powered like the Eldar and then release a middle of road codex like the Tyranids.
They have no concept of balance between one army vs the next. I hadn't lost a game with the last Tyranid codex and now I play them mostly for fun. Losing drop pods really hurt. I don't what they were thinking. They don't and that is the real problem.
Seems to be a lot of talk about Necrons and DE in their current/future states, so before I get into Game #4, I will share my thoughts on them.
Dark Eldar:
They are a glass cannon army and always will be. They will never be completely balanced. Will do good against many armies but will have difficulties against certain ones. To me, honestly, they are fine as they are. To play DE is to play a certain playstyle that is uniquely theirs - fast, shooty, fragile, lots of units. Now Eldar do make them much more powerful, but there's nothing we can really do about that until 7th Ed. come out.
Every army will have excellent units and units that we will hardly ever see in competitive play. With the exception of Eldar and Tau, honestly, most codices will be lucky if the players use even 25% of the units in their dex. Someone mentioned that Dhrazar is never used in competitive play. Well, neither will you see the Swarmlord nowadays or a bunch of other characters in competitive play. But if you really like him, then to hell with what everyone else does or say....just run him!
Yeah, there will be changes when the new DE comes out. But whatever those changes are, I have a feeling that DE will still play like they did for aeons....they will still be good.
Necrons:
Ok, necrons is more in my area of expertise. This is how I feel some of the current Necron units should be:
Minshackle Scarabs - 25-pts
Phase Shifter (for Lords and Overlords) - 30-pts
Phase Shifter (for Destroyer Lords) - 45-pts
Night Scythe - 120-pts, can only disembark/re-embark if move maximum 24".
Annihilation Barges - 110-pts
Canoptek Spiders - 60-pts
Also, they need some type of anti-psyker wargear.
As long as they have flyer transports in their next edition, Necrons will continue to be good. What Necrons lack to be the top dog are force-multiplication combos. They are probably the most efficient army currently out there in terms of a brute-force army (efficiency vs cost). They do have some force-multiplication wargear/characters, but not to the crazy extent of Tau and Eldar. Tau and Eldar are brutally good with their force-multiplication capabilites - lots of psychic powers, Toolbox commanders, markerlights, etc. Not only that, but Tau and Eldar can take some crazy battle brother allies to geometrically increase their force-multiplication powers as well. Necrons, they're stuck with Allies of Convenience at best only.
The next edition of Necrons will probably still be good, but the current trend of the competitive meta is gamebreaking combos/force-multipliers. Anything else will be just a step behind.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/24 00:17:31
Dont want to hijack the thread anymore then it already has been... but to add my $.01. Like JY2 said sadly not every unit is always good, its a fact of creme rising to the top and people using the most obviously good things. But to counter that you can usually find a way to use most of the things in any books. Drahzar may not be any good now... but he was a staple of my competitive webway dark eldar in 5th ed, his rules interactions worked in 5th and dont have as much pull anymore in 6th. Counter that with Vect who was much worse in 5th and is now super good, and I havent played a game without him competitively in well over a year, while I havent used Baron in that same period of time because Vect is better for how I want to play.
2014/04/24 01:32:37
Subject: Jy2 Goes to Adepticon (WARNING - Lots of Pics! Batrep Links on p.1, Game #3 on p.5)
I actually am more afraid of a DE update then excited. I think they stand to lose more then they gain. The only issues they have currently are price costs do to internal balance isues and codex creep. There is no reason a scourge should cost 6 pts more then a swooping hawk just like their is no reason a hellion should only be 3 points less then warp spiders or 1pt less then windriders lol... I mean come on.
And shame on whoever it was who insulted the Lady, she is great in my grotesque bomb as she protects them from enfeeble and force weapons.
I think Dark Eldar could get a buff that makes them internally more viable and not require eldar allies as much if they take away Baron. Baron is the reason why Jetseer Council and the Beaststars are so effective, yet the Dark Eldar don't need him to play well. Many pure Dark Eldar players take Vect or a custom Archon anyways.
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2014/04/24 02:23:20
Subject: Jy2 Goes to Adepticon (WARNING - Lots of Pics! Batrep Links on p.1, Game #3 on p.5)
I agree with pretty much every price change you're recommending Jy2 except for MSS. I still think 25 pts is too cheap to make them be able to kill any beatstick in the game. If they put somethig like that in the CSM codex it would be over 50 points. I think it's not a price issue but more of a changing how it works. If it was just changed to simply not allowing you to attack if you failed it would still be amazing but not over the top IMO. I used to play Necrons a lot and I always thought MSS was the dumbest thing and always felt extremely dirty when my opponent just kept killing themself and being punished for bringing a killy character (which nowadays in 6th don't need anything else to hamper bringing them).
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a whole though the necron codex needs to be rebalanced because even though it's not that old it's falling into the same mono-build patterns that Orks are in and Tyranids were very recently. All the aforementioned units are overcosted in a vacuum but the necron codex is barely top tier now. The problem is if you're not taking nightscythes, annihilation barges, and wraiths you're screwed (unless you're very adventurous and take spyders).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/24 03:07:03
Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight
2014/04/24 04:24:27
Subject: Re:Jy2 Goes to Adepticon (WARNING - Lots of Pics! Batrep Links on p.1, Game #3 on p.5)
Game #4 vs Centurionstar Space Marines/Inquisition
I am playing against Tim Gorham and his tournament-winning Centurionstar Space Marines. With just a couple of slight modifications, this was essentially the list he used to win the Torrent of Fire Tournament of Champions. For those not familiar, the ToF tournament was a tournament by invitation only of some of the best players here in the US. Almost everyone there has won a GT or has consistently done well. It was basically a who's-who of competitive and successful tournament US players, and for Tim to take the top spot was an honour indeed. Tim is also a very successful Necron Wraithwing player as well. He won a GT in the Midwest (can't remember its name) with his crons. He also took best Necron Player at the ATC 2013 last year (the year my team won it).
Going into this, I can't help but notice the similarities between my current situation here with that at the Las Vegas Open GT just a few months prior. Both games are the last game before heading into Day #2 and the Championships. Both games are my last obstacles in making it to the Sweet 16 (or Elite 8 at the LVO). Going into both games, I was undefeated. In each game, I will be playing against an accomplished player and GT winner - Eric Hoerger at the LVO and Tim here. Both players are running Marine armies with their main offense being Grav-weaponry. Before my game with Eric, I got wasted by one of those humongous mixed drinks that you can only find at Vegas. Before my game with Tim, I got sloshed by half-priced beers and happy hour at the restaurant/bar in our hotel (it was dinner time). Finally, with both games, it would be the first time in each tournament where my Necrons would be going 1st. Now I'm hoping that's where the similarities end, because I lost to Eric at the LVO....
1850 NECRONS
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs
5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters, Night Scythe
5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters, Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
Adepticon uses only Primary and Secondary objectives. The Primary Objectives always consists of 2 missions. It's actually quite simple. If you get more Primary Objectives than your opponent, you earn a Crushing Victory. Otherwise, if the Primary is tied, then you go on to the Secondaries. The Secondaries consist of First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord. If you tie on the Primary and win via Secondaries, then it is a Minor Victory.
Primary Objectives:
1. Victory Points
2. Big Guns - Heavy Supports are scoring. However, if you kill a Heavy, then it counts as 2 VP's for Primary Objective #1 instead. 5 Objectives total.
Secondary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord
Listwise, I actually think that Wraithwing is a bad matchup for Centurionstar:
1. Yeah, he has the volume-of-fire (VoF) to actually hurt my wraiths. However, whereas most units won't be getting any saves except Invuln's (not even cover as my opponent got Perfect Timing), the majority of my guys on the ground will be getting 3++.
2. I've got the speed and the resiliency to catch him in combat.
3. I've got 2 Mindshackles for his Chapter Masters. My flyers should be able to get the alpha-strike on his stalkers due to the lack of Interceptor.
4. His thunderfire really won't have any good targets to shoot at.
5. Most importantly, I've got a huge mobility advantage over my opponent. That is the real weakness of his list compared to mine.
Now for the intangibles, which are actually in favor of my opponent.
1. Psychic powers. That is the primary weakness of my wraiths. Once again, my opponent hit the mother-lode of psychic powers. No, he didn't go for Gate. Instead, he went for the sure powers from Divination. Misfortune, Forewarning, Perfect Timing, Prescience....another jackpot by my opponents. Misfortune in particular could play a huge role in this game.
2. He is going 2nd.
3. This is Big Guns. He's got 4 heavy supports, of which 2 will be hard to get. I can take out the 2 stalkers, but the thunderfire and his Centurionstar will be tough to get or even shift off of an objective.
4. Experience is in Tim's favor. I have never played against the Centurionstar before. Tim is an expert in Wraithwing Necrons. He definitely knows my army much better than I know his.
I definitely feel that my army can take on his. I think that my army can even potentially dominate his just based on the lists. Don't take that to mean that I am under-estimating him or his army. You just can't under-estimate a player of his caliber. However, we will see what role the intangibles play in this battle. Given that the intangibles favor my opponent, I am actually thinking that this will be a much closer battle than I would normally expect. But in the end, the Marines are just another obstacle that my crons will trample over in the quest for the Adepticon Sweet 16.
Wraiths advance. I move my barges very cautiously, forgoing shooting for 1 turn in order to stay 31" away from his Centurionstar. That is mainly because I didn't want his deathstar to shoot at and immobilize them.
In retrospect, there was no need to be so cautious. I should have just lit up his deathstar.
Wraiths run to get even closer.
Marines 1
Spoiler:
Psykers cast their powers and Misfortune my left wraithstar unit (my Warlord's unit). Then centurionstar then advances. My opponent was debating whether to make a tactical retreat or to play aggressively. IMO, he did the right thing to move forwards. It was what I would have done as well.
Shooting takes out my wraithstar for First Blood. He also takes out 1 wraith from my other unit.
VP's - Marines: 2, Necrons: 0
Fortunately for me, my Warlord gets back up.
VP's - Marines: 1, Necrons: 0
But wow! Misfortune really hurt me that turn.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
2 of my flyers come in.
I close in for the kill.
Barges move in. They were just biding their time for when the night scythes come in.
Unfortunately, my shooting is dismal (couldn't roll those 6's) and my opponent's saves are good. I maybe cause 1 or 2W but that is about it.
Wraiths then assault.
I mindshackle both Chapter Masters and declare a challenge. I cause 2W to his Shield Eternal Chapter Master and I think I kill 1 centurion. In return, he kills 2 of my wraiths due to Misfortune and force weapons.
Marines 2
Spoiler:
The legion of the Damned comes in and blows up one of my AB's with their meltas (Relentless and ignore cover). He gets 2VP's due to killing a Heavy Support.
VP's - Marines: 3, Necrons: 0
I can't believe what is going on!!! Both Chapter Masters pass their Mindshackle tests. He Misfortunes my wraiths once again. I believe I cause a couple of wounds. However, Tim wipes out 1 unit of wraiths and down both Destroyer Lords!!! #$%&@*# Misfortune!!!
VP's - Marines: 6, Necrons: 0
Fortunately for me, both D-lords get back up.
VP's - Marines: 4, Necrons: 0
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
Only 1 night scythe comes in this turn. My other 2 night scythes go after his stalker. Apparently my flyers survived his stalkers' shooting last turn.
Die, Imperial scum! 1 Marine Heavy Support down.
VP's - Marines: 4, Necrons: 2
The other one survive with just 1 HP left.
The battle rages on. This time, my opponent fails both Mindshackle tests once again. I thought I had killed him, but apparently, Space Marine Chapter Masters now have 4W instead of the 3 they used to have. I lose another 2 wraiths to Misfortune and force weapons once again.
Marines 3
Spoiler:
Needing 6's to hit, the legion gets a lucky hit with their multi-melta and blows up 1 of my night scythes.
VP's - Marines: 5, Necrons: 2
Stalker shoots down another 1 night scythe. I must say, my opponent is rolling well so far.
VP's - Marines: 6, Necrons: 2
In combat, the centurionstar finishes off the wraiths and downs my normal D-lord. My Warlord then fails morale and falls back. My D-lord would finally stay down.
VP's - Marines: 8, Necrons: 2
Damn, things are going rough for my crons so far. The centurionstar is doing surprisingly well in combat thanks to Prescience, Forewarning, force weapons and most of all, Misfortune. I did make a mistake however. For some reason, I thought Tigurius' weapon was Fleshbane and AP2 (because he was wounding my wraiths on 2+'s). What it was was a force maul (S6 AP4 only). So this turn, I thought Tigurius was wounding me on 2+ and with no saves on my part (when he should have been wounding me on 4+ and I still get my 2+ saves). However, it really wasn't my opponent's fault. I did not verify with him with regards to Tigurius' weapon and he probably thought I knew what I was doing. Also, it probably wouldn't have mattered because Coteaz had yet to attack with his S6 AP2 force hammer (though both Chapter Masters couldn't fight due to Mindshackles).
In any case, my crons are hurting right now.
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
Warriors walk in from Ongoing Reserves.
As do my immortals. The last scythe comes in.
The other scythe drops off its immortals before flying off the table.
Rapid-fire gauss blasters from my immortals kill only 1 legion of the damned (LotD).
I kill all but 1 marine with my other immortals and a night scythe.
Barge goes after and finishes off his stalker.
VP's - Marines: 8, Necrons: 4
Marines 4
Spoiler:
The LotD goes after my immortals.
Both henchmen units finally come in.
I think my opponent must have gotten Scrier's Gaze as a psychic power. Most of the stuff he wanted to come in late came in late and his stalkers came in early.
The centurionstar gets ready to re-charge my Warlord, but not before they immobilize one of my annihilation barge with a split-fire shot.
BTW, his Shield Eternal jump master splits off from the unit and goes after my immortals.
Honestly, I don't remember how he shot down my night scythe.
VP's - Marines: 9, Necrons: 4
Thunderfire takes out 3 warriors.
LotD takes out 2 immortals.
Assault.
I get knocked down, but I get up again cuz you're never gonna keep me down.
The LotD assaults my immortals and they stay locked in combat.
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
I go after another Heavy Support - his TFC.
Warriors come in from the reserves. They stay as close to the combat as possible to protect them from the TFC blasts.
In the only bad rolling of the game for my opponent, Tim roll's 3 1's in a row on his saves and loses both his TFC and the techmarine. I get another Heavy Support.
VP's - Marines: 9, Necrons: 6
However, my AB shoots at his scouts in cover (they are obscured by the ruins in the photo above) but he passes all of their saves.
Finally I re-charge his centurionstar, hoping to lock them down in combat, all the while contesting the middle objective.
In retrospect, I should have just let him assault/shoot my Warlord instead.
Warriors go after the objective. The LotD is actually outside of contesting range so I actually have this objective.
I mindshackle his Chapter Master, then issue a challenge, of which my opponent declines. I then deny Coteaz his attacks. However, Tigurius kills my Warlord and he fails to get back up!
VP's - Marines: 10, Necrons: 6
Warriors charge into combat as well. My troops are actually in claiming range while his LotD are out of contesting range.
Another LotD member goes down. They would remain stuck in combat for the rest of the game.
Marines 5
Spoiler:
Centurionstar stays on the center objective. They shoot down my unit of 2 warriors on an objective.
VP's - Marines: 11, Necrons: 6
Scouts have another objective after his jump Chapter Master finishes off my other unit of Immortals in assault.
VP's - Marines: 12, Necrons: 6
I only have 1 objective.
Tim also gets First Blood (wraiths), Linebreaker (LotD) and my Warlord for full points.
So this is a first. First time where my Lords got up, what 3 or 4 times, and I still lost the game. Well, actually, this may have been the 2nd time. The 1st time I believe was actually against Skyblight nids. In any case, where was I off? What went wrong in this game?
1. Tim was rolling well. He was making his saves and what little skyfire he had was getting the job done. I should have been able to take out his Centurionstar, especially when most of my Mindshackles were going through, but his Chapter Masters just wouldn't fail their last saves. He only had 1 string of bad rolling and that was when he lost his thunderfire cannon and techmarine.
2. I did roll well with my Everliving, get-back-up rolls, but for the most part, my dice were somewhat subpar, both in my offense and with my saves. I couldn't finish off his straggling units for those easy VP's due in part to my poor offense and good saves by my opponent.
3. Misfortune's a b*tch. Still can't believe that Tigurius b*tch-slapped my wraiths with Misfortune and force weapons. Surprisingly (at least to me), he was actually the main workhorse in the unit. While his Chapter Masters were busy pounding on themselves, Tigurius was busy killing wraiths and even my D-lords. Go figure.
4. Tim played great. He played like a true champion. Usually when I play in what I felt was a bad matchup for me, I would normally play the denial game with as many units in reserves as possible. That was exactly what Tim did. He knew how devastating my shooting could be and thus, gave me no targets other than his deathstar.
5. I made 2 mistakes. Now these weren't major mistakes, but they could have made a difference. The first was to avoid his deathstar with my barges on Turn 1. That extra turn of shooting could have made a difference. With 3 barges, even snapfiring, if I could have caused even 1W to one of his Chapter Masters, I could have killed one of them. That could have been a difference-maker in the main combat between his Centurionstar and my 2 wraithstars.
6. The 2nd mistake was to assault his deathstar on Turn 5 with my D-lord. I should have just contested the middle objective and force my opponent to focus on him instead. Now, I wouldn't have won with this tactic, but I could have potentially came out with a minor defeat instead of a crushing defeat. With a minor defeat, I still had a sliver of a chance to make it into the Sweet 16 (I believe there were 1 or 2 players with 1 minor defeat who made it).
Oh well, it was a great game. Win or lose, I'm glad I got the opportunity to play against a great player like Tim and one of the new super-powered deathstars like the Centurionstar. Tomorrow will be just relaxation and a lot of no-pressure, fun games.
Still to come....
I get in a pick-up game against Justin Cook's GT-winning O'vesastar.
And....
Team Roommates vs Team Zero Comp.
My roommate Stephen "Chancetragedy" and I, Jim "Jy2" pit our armies - Wraithwing Necrons and White Scars - against Team Zero Comp's "World's Greatest 40K Player" Frankie's GT-winning Venom-spam Dark Eldar/Eldar and "InControl" Geoff's FMC-spam Tyranids.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2014/05/05 06:32:25
I think Tim has got this. A super experienced player who has won with Wraithwing before. So not only does he know his own list very well, but he also knows Jim's list. Add the fact that he has final turn for objectives and I think it will be a decently solid win for SM.
If Jim moves too aggressively first turn he risks an entire wraithstar getting pulped. Also, the 2 orbital bombardments can further punish him. I think it'll depend on the fliers tho, if Jim takes out the Stalkers in time than he can fly around and pew pew stuff. If he gets poor rolls and they come on peicemeal and don't kill the Stalkers...sucks to suck
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:daemon 14000
:darkeldar 5000
2014/04/24 14:44:31
Subject: Jy2 Goes to Adepticon (WARNING - Lots of Pics! Batrep Links on p.1, Game #3 on p.5)
I am assuming he got gate, get has three chances with rerolls one at a time so it actually gets easier each time he misses gate as the list gets smaller.
Since this is 6th edition I have to put my money on the side going second. SM win this as they get last say on objectives.
Listwise, I actually think that Wraithwing is a bad matchup for Centurionstar:
1. Yeah, he has the volume-of-fire (VoF) to actually hurt my wraiths. However, whereas most units won't be getting any saves except Invuln's (not even cover as my opponent got Perfect Timing), the majority of my guys on the ground will be getting 3++.
2. I've got the speed and the resiliency to catch him in combat.
3. I've got 2 Mindshackles for his Chapter Masters. My flyers should be able to get the alpha-strike on his stalkers due to the lack of Interceptor.
4. His thunderfire really won't have any good targets to shoot at.
5. Most importantly, I've got a huge mobility advantage over my opponent. That is the real weakness of his list compared to mine.
Now for the intangibles, which are actually in favor of my opponent.
1. Psychic powers. That is the primary weakness of my wraiths. Once again, my opponent hit the mother-lode of psychic powers. No, he didn't go for Gate. Instead, he went for the sure powers from Divination. Misfortune, Forewarning, Perfect Timing, Prescience....another jackpot by my opponents. Misfortune in particular could play a huge role in this game.
2. He is going 2nd.
3. This is Big Guns. He's got 4 heavy supports, of which 2 will be hard to get. I can take out the 2 stalkers, but the thunderfire and his Centurionstar will be tough to get or even shift off of an objective.
4. Experience is in Tim's favor. I have never played against the Centurionstar before. Tim is an expert in Wraithwing Necrons. He definitely knows my army much better than I know his.
I definitely feel that my army can take on his. I think that my army can even potentially dominate his just based on the lists. Don't take that to mean that I am under-estimating him or his army. You just can't under-estimate a player of his caliber. However, we will see what role the intangibles play in this battle. Given that the intangibles favor my opponent, I am actually thinking that this will be a much closer battle than I would normally expect. But in the end, the Marines are just another obstacle that my crons will trample over in the quest for the Adepticon Sweet 16.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Only when the dice gods conspire against him, I can't recall a battle report where he has been actively out played.
Neither can I. I haven't been out-played in a long, long time. I have been out-rolled, however.
Mythra wrote: I am not saying they aren't under cost but if you fix all those Nercon issues they won't be competitive. I want a competitive army. The Eldar aren't getting any fixes anytime soon and are one of the most competitive armies out there. I want to see more competitive armies not less.
I mean really 60" ignores cover gun on a transport is just as silly as the Necron Night Scythe.
The problem is they release an under balanced codex like the Dark Angels then release an over powered like the Eldar and then release a middle of road codex like the Tyranids.
They have no concept of balance between one army vs the next. I hadn't lost a game with the last Tyranid codex and now I play them mostly for fun. Losing drop pods really hurt. I don't what they were thinking. They don't and that is the real problem.
Making those changes will actually put Necrons more in line with the non-Eldar/Tau armies. Eldar and Tau are just ridiculously over-the-top good currently. I would say they need a good nerfing as well if you're trying to balance them out with all the other armies.
It seems like when GW release their next generation of codices, usually 1 or 2 will be super-good. Another 1 or 2 will be really good, and the rest will be alright. Don't expect GW to consistently come out with all the new codices in the really good to the super good range. Those dexes are more anomalies than the norm. My thoughts are that you curb the extremes (the Taus and the Eldar) rather than to make all the codices just like them.
Red Corsair wrote: I actually am more afraid of a DE update then excited. I think they stand to lose more then they gain. The only issues they have currently are price costs do to internal balance isues and codex creep. There is no reason a scourge should cost 6 pts more then a swooping hawk just like their is no reason a hellion should only be 3 points less then warp spiders or 1pt less then windriders lol... I mean come on.
And shame on whoever it was who insulted the Lady, she is great in my grotesque bomb as she protects them from enfeeble and force weapons.
Well, one trend that we are seeing is that many things do get cheaper and usually only the really undercosted things (tervigons, vendettas, chimeras, daemon princes, etc.) get a price hike. I think you will see units like the scourge and hellions adjusted accordingly in the next edition.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/24 17:23:30
Red Corsair wrote: I am assuming he is reserving both his stalkers so he can get the drop on your fliers? Otherwise I don't see how they will survive until his turn 2.
Yes, that is correct. He actually reserves everything but his deathstar and the TFC. He too likes to play the denial game.
Yea well thats the best play, it makes you waste shots on that deathstar then he rolls in and nabs your fliers I'd guess.
With TL twin orbitals I am assuming he grabs FB off a barge. edit: ignores cover too lol
From their the games his to lose. That's my biggest problem with 6th. Some of these deathstars are so consistent that predetermined plays become a thing, which ironically reminds me more of chess.
I hope this is a tight one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/24 18:24:18
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