Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Welcome to game 7. To view this series' registry, click here.

The 1850 league continues. This time, against the person I played game 1 against.

THE CHALLENGER: Go Teal or Go Home!
1850 pts.

Librarian
- terminator armor, storm shield, avenger, quickening

10 man tac squad
- lascannon, flamer, power fist

10 man tac squad
- lascannon, flamer, power fist

10x sternguard with combi-meltas, lightning claws
- drop pod

Ironclad Dreadnought
- 2x heavy flamers, HK missile, Ironclad launchers
- drop pod with locator beacon

Dreadnought
- extra armor, heavy flamer, multimelta
- drop pod with locator beacon.

Thunderfire cannon

Land Raider Redeemer
- extra armor, storm bolter, multi-melta

Predator
- lascannon sponsons, TL lascannon turret, extra armor.

THE DEFENDER: BLLLLLOBS!!
1850 pts.

I used list 5-1850-b, same as last time.

The mission this game was "rescue". Basically, you had to nominate a unit to be in captivity that had to start out on your opponent's long edge at maximum dispersion. For the purposes of pretty much everything, the squad didn't exist until it came into base contact with a friendly unit, at which point it became a normal unit (as if it had deepstruck in). You completed your objective if you made it back onto your table half with said squad.

The deployment was spearhead. My opponent rolled to go first. At deployment, the field looked like this:



As you can see, my opponent put a combat squad down on my side, and I chose to throw down a blob squad (specifically, from Rhamael's squad). This way the squad was so spread out that no matter which side I outflanked from, I was nearly guaranteed to activate my power blob right away, and it would have the durability to make it to my side of the board on foot. I deploy as best I can to prevent him from just dropping on his guys / general drop pod defense.

As for the rest, I have 5 meltagun squads and two blobs to stop him from getting to his guys. This looks to be an easy victory in the making.


TURN 1

Raust Melios Carissander - Commissar, Daxos Group

After a fight that was as long and bloody as it was confusing, I and the rest of the Daxos Line had found ourselves in a stalemate with a group of heretical space marines in a ruined city. Several of our comrades had supremely disgraced themselves by allowing themselves to be captured alive by the enemy. That one of the prisoners was a fellow commissar filled me with the deepest rage.

When learned of this, commander marshal Clinton did the absolutely unthinkable: he sent emissaries out to set up a prisoner exchange. The lives of 21 pieces of absolute scum wasn't worth even the pinky toe of one of our prisoners. The only way I was persuaded to allow this course of action to continue, rather than to execute marshal Clinton on the spot, was because this gave us not only a chance to launch a surprise attack on their unsuspecting forces, but it would also give me the chance to personally execute the traitorous cowards myself once they had made it safely to our lines.

At the proper time and place, we arrayed ourselves at the meeting place. Then, the most despicable traitors of marines showed their vile colors yet again by springing an ambush on us!



I turned from their incoming forces and stared down my targets downfield. I vowed to eat their livers boiled in their own blood. Death to them all!

So, in his turn he gets two free dreads piling out. Meanwhile, his other vehicles move forward.

In shooting, his multimelta misses my manticore, and the heavy flamer takes down a couple of dudes in the front blob squad.

After this point, the field looked like this:



In response, I move my blobs over to screen off his objective better. The rest of my huge melta hedge runs forward.

In shooting, I "bring it down!" on a melta squad which hits the dread 3 times, but somehow doesn't manage to do more than peel the paint. A second BiD on the CCS itself finds 3 meltaguns in melta range rerolling to hit with no cover. 3 pens later, and the dread is gone, taking my fleet officer with it in the ensuing explosion. Back in the center, 3 more meltaguns cause a pair of glances which immobilizes and shakes the center dread.

Meanwhile, my 2 manticores throw down 4 shots against the land raiders. 2 hit, but despite being S10 ordnance, I only manage a single glance, which shakes the vehicle.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 2

My opponent begins his turn with his sternguard+librarian showing up:



The land raider and the predator move up closer.

In shooting, his combi-meltas easily off one of my manticores, while his other combat squad of sternguard has a very impressive round of shooting, killing the rest of my command squad.

Meanwhile, the thunderfire hits with all 4 shots, but thanks to proper spacing, I keep him down to only 4 hits (all of which failed their armor saves).

After this point, the field looked like this:



My turn begins with Rhamael unimpressively showing up. The astropath was killed, so he showed up on the wrong side of the board. Thankfully, I had planned against this bad luck, and the nearest model in my objective squad was very close. He strode out 6". I roll for run, and get a 1, just BARELY putting me out of reach of activating my imprisoned blob squad. As such, I wiggle slightly back behind the wall in the upper left.

Meanwhile, angered at their inability to kill the dread last turn, I move my melta hedge even closer:



In shooting, my outflanking plasma squad opens up on one of his sternguard that's completely out in the open. 6 plasma shots, and only 1 marine goes down. I lose a guardsman to a burn...

Meanwhile, my melta hedge gets a couple of pens on the dread, which explodes with a huge radius. Almost all of the hits wound, and I fail a majority of my armor saves, leaving the melta squads shredded...

My basilisk shoots at his desperately exposed librarian/sternguard, and scatters 7" off the table. My manticore shoots at his land raider and scatters, but not by a lot, so the huge vehicle is still hit. The S10 ordnance shot penetrates... and rolls a "crew shaken" result...

Then onto assault...



Seeing the lumbering behemoth approaching our lines in order to pick up their prisoners, I immediately ordered an assault. Sergeants primed meltabombs and, with the loud urgings and rantings of the squad's chaplain, we viciously charged into the monstrous machine.

I get into close combat and throw two rerollable meltabombs at his land raider. Neither of them hit.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 3

My opponent begins by tank shocking his land raider towards his objective. I make a death or glory with a meltabomb. It fails to scratch the paint. I make a death or glory with a meltagun in the next squad. I penetrate the armor. The result is a weapon destroyed...

With nothing standing in his way, he dumps his guys out of the raider and activates his objective which rolls a 6 for their run roll. Thankfully, this isn't enough to get them all into 2" of the assault ramp.



In assault, he runs his raider squad to provide a shield for his dudes. Meanwhile, his uninjured sternguard charge into my basilisk.



With a couple of krak grenades he gets a glance and a pen for a "weapon destroyed" and a "crew stunned" result. The librarian does nothing to my manticore with its lightning claws.

His other sternguard squad charges into my plasma vets and does poorly enough not to just wipe the squad outright. 2 plasmagunners fail their morale check and are able to avoid a sweeping advance.

After this point, the field looked like this:



So, there have been some hang-ups, but I'm still in a tenable position. All I need to do is to be able to activate my squad and stop his land raider with the huge pile of melta attacks I've got.

Movement begins with Rhamael rolling for difficult terrain and rolling snakeyes... I really don't have a choice now, as if I dont' activate my squad soon, there is simply no way that they're going to be getting onto my side the field in later turns. I hold my breath and wiggle out into the open.

The rest of my movement is throwing the weight of my entire backfield army onto his stuff on my side of the table.

Shooting begins with a pair of plasma guns once again rolling terribly and only putting down a single sternguard. Thankfully, Rhamael gets a 4 on the run and is just BARELY able to make it into base contact with my objective power blob, activating it.

With all possible haste, I commanded my men forward. The enemy was gathering their prisoners! It was now time to unload the full might of the imperial guard on his pathetic forces arrayed.



I start the left-side action by ripping the TL lascannon off the predetor. Meanwhile, 2 meltaguns do nothing to the raider.

I then charge in, but due to a quirky technicality of multiple assaults that I wasn't aware of, I was unable to charge his objective unit. As such, my dudes pile in on his raider squad and wipe it away.




TURN 4

Now that my blob squad is activated, he tries to move his lascannon squad down to charge it, but fails horribly on his difficult terrain check (this was actually unlucky for me). Meanwhile, the land raider attempts a speedy getaway.

In assault, he manages to get into close combat with his techpriest. My conga line moves over. This was actually acceptable. After all it's a W1 dude with no invul, and he plowed into 3 power weapons. Once I consolidate out, it will be my turn, so I can easily run away from the rest of his troops and onto my side of the board.

He does nothing to my squad. I roll 9 power weapon and 6 regular attacks and put down... zero wounds...

Meanwhile, a handful of krak grenades manage to stun my manticore.

After this point, the field looked like this:



Well this game is starting to go more poorly than expected. Not only was he somehow able to just drive his land raider up and just pick up his guys, but now my own blob squad is stuck due to idiotically bad luck. My mission now is to at least go for a draw by stopping his land raider and killing off his guys. Plus, if the game lasts long enough, it will still be possible for my blob squad to make it back to my side.

"Don't let it get away!" I shouted to my men, "I will personally execute anyone who lets them get away, and send anthrax in the mail to their entire extended family! Go, now!"



As it's all or nothing with the raider, I throw all available resources at it. I pump out 4 meltagun shots (1 in melta range), and 4 meltabomb attacks (2 of which are rerollable). The end result is only a single penetration... for which I roll a "weapon destroyed"...

Meanwhile my power blob throws down another 9 power weapon attacks and manages a SINGLE wound. The techmarine is dead, but with a whopping 3" consolidation, I'm still basically right next to his remaining marine squad that wasn't able to charge in before.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 5

With his land raider still able to move, he cleanly unloads his dudes onto his table half to complete his objective.



In shooting, he scores a miraculous number of bolt pistol hits off on my blob, and charges in. Chainsword attacks kill even more. 9 more power weapon attacks kill... 1. That's right, 27 power weapon attacks just killed 2 space marines...

After this point, the field looked like this:



Well, I'm pretty much screwed. If the game lasts long enough, I can probably outlast his few remaining marines and just possibly make it back to my side for a draw.

I start by moving up everything towards his stuff. In shooting, 3 meltaguns fail to hurt the land raider. In assault, 2 rerollable meltabombs make short work of the predator, but 2 more meltabombs fail to hit the land raider. The manticore shoots and scatters off the land raider to hit a couple of sternguard and the second shot hits... and pens... and "stuns"...

In close combat, he guts my blob squad with more good rolling. The remaining commissar and sergeant put out 6 power weapon attacks and kill... zero...

After this point, the field looked like this:



I rolled to continue on to a desperately needed turn 6 and throw down a 2. The game ended.


FINAL RESULTS

The space marines had rescued their captured prisoner and brought them to their table half, and the guard didn't for a space marine victory.

- I lost this game because of luck, and it really bothers me. Whether it was Rhamael's inability to roll higher than a 1 on a run, to 9 power weapons being able to put a single wound down that stranded my blob squad to the 8 S10 ordnance attacks and the 18 melta attacks that couldn't even immobilize the raider, it was as if I was bringing only 300 points to an 1850 point game. Even when I was lucky, I was unlucky (explosions), and even when my opponent was unlucky, he was lucky (extra turn to attack the blob). If even ONE of the dozens and dozens of terrible rolls would have been even "normal", the game would have at least ended a draw, and if our luck roles had been reversed, I would have tabled my opponent turn 3. As it was, a reasonably easy victory or at least a very easy draw was turned into a gut-wrenching loss, despite all of the player skill I was bringing to the table.

MVP: No one. They all fail.

Hero of the game: The lone priest who I couldn't figure out how to deploy or fit into the narrative who died on the right side of the board charging the librarian. What the effort was in vain, it was a heroic attempt.

To my shock and anger, our enemy killed off our cowardly prisoners before I even got a chance to punish them for their crimes against the Emperor. With nothing to gain, I immediately turned and began to summarily execute every guardsman I could see for their cowardly failing to obey my command and take down our opponent. With my bolt pistol, I managed to end the lives of 8 guardsmen and an officer before the cowards took advantage of my second reload to get out of sight.

That night, I poisoned each of those who I was unable to kill with my pistol, forcing them to vomit themselves to death. Anthrax letters to their next of kin are pending the arrival of the next mail ship from the warp.

Justice has been served. I eagerly await my next assignment. In faith,

-Raust Melios Carissander, Imperial Commissar

Anyways, I hope you enjoyed reading the report of this game more than I enjoyed losing it. Look forward to game 8 next week!

Great report
Shame you couldnt quite salvage a draw, your meta's were SO unlucky!

Nice report shame about your luck, you need to grind those dice to powder and get some new ones.

While you had quite bad luck, you also had a huge gap in your defensive line that the regular dreadnought and librarian were able to exploit. They should not have been able to deep strike right next to your heavy support and basically roll over it.

yeah, sucks to have the melta wall not remember to fire at full power. as for the power blob assaults, it sucks that they didn't do what you wanted but technically they only were once die away from the average results. 9 IG power weapon attacks = 1.5 dead marines statistically. unfortunately, you were always 0.5 UNDER the average instead of over. i tried out one of your power blobs in a recent game and i think you might need to run 30 guys instead of 20. the extra bodies (and attacks) help simply by reducing the effect of bad rolls by others.

Plasminator wrote:While you had quite bad luck, you also had a huge gap in your defensive line that the regular dreadnought and librarian were able to exploit. They should not have been able to deep strike right next to your heavy support and basically roll over it.

Someone still doesn't know how to use blobs properly.

Thanks!

Plasminator wrote:While you had quite bad luck, you also had a huge gap in your defensive line that the regular dreadnought and librarian were able to exploit. They should not have been able to deep strike right next to your heavy support and basically roll over it.

Yes, but...

Firstly, the defensive line wasn't AS bad as it looked, as I was able to take down 2 dreads. The only thing that got me was combi-melta sternguard.

... Which I could have stopped if I threw more bubble wrap around it, but I didn't on purpose. Having take-downable targets meant that my opponent deepstruck his sternguard WAY over on the other side of the board far away from the rest of the action. It would have been MUCH worse for me if he would have deepstruck them over where he could have tied up a center blob (or worse, he could have deepstruck next to Rhamael and wiped it out, leaving me ultimately unable to win outright). I consider this a victory of distraction.

Finally, even though he landed in my artillery, one manticore was able to get off 1/2 of its rockets, and the other was able to unload its entire rack. As such, his attack on my far right, didn't even actually have that much effect on my firepower. Taking more resources out of taking down the land raider in order to handle some units that were ultimately uneccessary to the success of the mission would have been much worse for me, I think.

warboss wrote:9 IG power weapon attacks = 1.5 dead marines statistically. unfortunately, you were always 0.5 UNDER the average instead of over.

Right, it was the ALWAYS bed that really hurt. That said, I also had a slough of regular attacks in there as well (usually to the tune of about 8), which meant I should have been putting down at least two a turn. More importantly, it was the timing of when there were 0 instead of 2...

warboss wrote:i tried out one of your power blobs in a recent game and i think you might need to run 30 guys instead of 20. the extra bodies (and attacks) help simply by reducing the effect of bad rolls by others.

I'm starting to consider this. The problem, though, is that it would require me buying and painting 30 more dudes. I simply don't have the money at the moment to make this happen. Also, I'm looking into getting rid of my artillery and replacing it with rough riders, which competes with time and money as well

Forcing your opponent to DS his drop pods near the board edge is definitely worth it. Now if there was a locator Beacon on the pod, maybe it should have been dispatched but there is nothing like having your opponent mishap several hundred points off the end of the table.

Especially when the potential cost to you is so low and tactically you want him there anyway.

Definitely bad luck on the rolls, sometimes it happens which is part of what makes this so exciting. As horrible as it was for you, he has a GREAT story about the heroic LR that could.

Great read, also I hate to say it but I was secretly rooting for that LR!

I wish my Land Raider was that tough!

Great report as usual, unbelievably bad luck on your part. I've never seen such total failure with shooting and assaulting in one game. You need to melt one of your dice in front of the others to set an example, I bet that will straighten them out. If dice rolls even out over time you should expect some amazing things in your next game!

Keep up the great reports!

Ailaros wrote:

warboss wrote:i tried out one of your power blobs in a recent game and i think you might need to run 30 guys instead of 20. the extra bodies (and attacks) help simply by reducing the effect of bad rolls by others.

I'm starting to consider this. The problem, though, is that it would require me buying and painting 30 more dudes. I simply don't have the money at the moment to make this happen. Also, I'm looking into getting rid of my artillery and replacing it with rough riders, which competes with time and money as well

i'm with you there (except for the rough riders). i've got a third edition IG army that i don't even remember which colors i used for painting so i don't add new guys to it. lol, when this new codex came out, i amputated more backpacks and weapons than a civil war field surgeon to get them to the point i could with the figs i started with yet still fitting in my "custom" (i took a hobby knife to standard GW foam... pre-battlefoam days) case. any particular reason you're considering rough riders? i have 5 painted from my old 3rd edition days that i doubt i'll ever use. i'm guessing you're on an IG power weapon kick from the makeup of your force. they're bascially a fire and forget weapon that is only useful for a single turn (if they charge, none if they don't). make sure you use them well!

calypso2ts wrote:Forcing your opponent to DS his drop pods near the board edge is definitely worth it. Now if there was a locator Beacon on the pod, maybe it should have been dispatched but there is nothing like having your opponent mishap several hundred points off the end of the table.

Especially when the potential cost to you is so low and tactically you want him there anyway.

Yeah, it had a locator beacon on it, but I also wonder what really all would have been gained by wasting shots on it early on. The only thing that could have shot was the manticore, which would have been a waste with the raider on the field.

calypso2ts wrote: As horrible as it was for you, he has a GREAT story about the heroic LR that could.

I genuinely hope that no one ever uses this as an example of what LR's can do. Another thing that bothers me is that this isn't anywhere near normal circumstances, yet it could easily give false impressions to the non-discriminating.

BladeWalker wrote:You need to melt one of your dice in front of the others to set an example, I bet that will straighten them out. If dice rolls even out over time you should expect some amazing things in your next game!

Given my abysmal luck of my last series, I did a few things to give me a leg up this set. For one, I bought a real scatter die, which has been doing MUCH better (and by better, I mean statistically consistent) than my home made one. With regard to the dice themselves I went and got some holy water from a catholic church across the street from where I lived (it was nearlythis easy), and I soaked the dice overnight in it. Seems holy water has a limited blessing time, though.

In any case, this has finally been the last straw. As of this morning, I finally ordered new dice. Look for some classy new blues in the near future.

warboss wrote: any particular reason you're considering rough riders? i have 5 painted from my old 3rd edition days that i doubt i'll ever use. i'm guessing you're on an IG power weapon kick from the makeup of your force. they're bascially a fire and forget weapon that is only useful for a single turn (if they charge, none if they don't). make sure you use them well!

Yeah, rough riders can only make one attack, but deathstrikes can also only make one and manticores can only make 4. I'm not so interested in the number of attacks as much as I am damage over the course of the game.

For me, 105 points in rough riders is only slightly worse than a basilisk. If a basilisk is a sufficient threat to your opponent, it will be neutralized by turn 4 (cf. this game, for example). This means that I'm probably going to get only 1 solid hit in a game, or 2 if my opponent ignores it. Assuming good circumstances (target out of cover, reasonably clustered, 2 hits), I could probably down something like 12-14 marines in a game. Assuming poor circumstances (one shot, target in cover), I'm going to kill more like 5. Rough riders do an average of 7 or 8. Basilisks can also be good at vehicles, but rough riders can take meltaguns. Basilisks are easier to use, but rough riders ignore cover, etc. etc. My point is that they're roughly equivalent, and the choice between riders or basilisk depends on what else I'm taking. When I'm taking 2 other artillery pieces, the basilisk makes sense.

So really, what do the riders do compared to manticores? Clearly the riders will be better against MEq, TEq, and MCs (because they're designed against different targets). The real question then becomes one of vehicles and hordes. On the one hand, there is only one other horde army at my store, so I'll be unlikely to do a lot of manticoring against large hordes, while on the other hand, my power blobs are already plenty good against them. Meanwhile, the manticore hasn't been as good against vehicles as advertised. Sure, I've had terrible luck against land raiders, but look at the rest. I've been facing off against things which can easily be taken down by all the meltaguns and the eviscerators. Also, I'm shooting against a lot of skimmers, which really cuts down on manticore effectiveness. Honestly, they've been underpreforming for their cost in pretty much every game I've played.

As such, dumping 2 manticores to pick up 3 rough rider squads with 2x meltaguns (or perhaps meltabombs) makes sense, as it can do what the manticore can do, but it can also do a lot more. Plus, if I throw in 3 rough riders, then there's not a whole lot of point to the basilisk, which, once I'd be done modelling 30 rough riders, I'd drop in favor of another 20-dude power blob (sans priest), or bulking up all 3 existing power blobs to 30 men.

Good report :-) I have to admit, I've never actually had any of my Raiders actually survive a drive through an enemy force... Playing out the same scenario with the Praetorians, I just detailed out a small 10 man line squad against the Mech Eldar force... Hydra rocks, now to finish modeling it by the weekend... Have you looked at the Perry brothers stuff for IG Cav? I'm trying to find some of their "Sudan Campaign" stuff for "Highlander Praetorians", but their plastics look pretty nice... I just use my old Ogryn for that role...

On the Artillery, I think it worked out OK for you, on average dice rolls, you would have won that exchange easily I think... Especially on a point vs point comparison... Bad luck on the dice though... One thing, I'd almost have suggested more fire into the first rounds drop pods. :-) As a BA player, I can say, they're the bigger threat really than the DN if there is something else coming in... Though I think I'm the only one there playing the full drop army at the moment...

I have not played IG since the previous edition codex and 4th edition ruleset, but Rough Riders were a staple of my army for counter charging. I'd often run three full squads with hunting lances and a power weapon on the sergeant. I'd also put honorifica imperialis on one squad sometimes. For the points they pack a hell of a punch at anything getting too close for comfort and better allow you to play a ranged shooting game, which guard do better than anyone else.

I hate the current models though, and converted my squads from the plastic empire outriders boxes.

I, naturally, did not mean to imply that it was an ACCURATE representation of what a LR should do. Instead, what makes it a great story (imo) is how inaccurate it was and how 'Epic' the game was with each turn expecting it to blow and the elation of it trucking on each turn!

I thought I saw some Meltas near it, I completely agree shooting artillery at a drop pod is silly!

pchappel wrote: One thing, I'd almost have suggested more fire into the first rounds drop pods. :-) As a BA player, I can say, they're the bigger threat really than the DN if there is something else coming in... Though I think I'm the only one there playing the full drop army at the moment...

Yeah, if he was an all-drop army, perhaps, but as was shown to me turn 1, his drop pods and their cargo were going to have little impact on the game. He could hack at my distractions all day if it meant I still won.

pchappel wrote: Have you looked at the Perry brothers stuff for IG Cav? I'm trying to find some of their "Sudan Campaign" stuff for "Highlander Praetorians", but their plastics look pretty nice...

Yes, oh yes I have. I was considering napoleonic heavy cavalry:



28 dudes on horses for $45 (before shipping). Tragic that I can't get a full 30, but this is still a pretty decent deal for some pretty awesome cavalry models.

quote=pchappel] On the Artillery, I think it worked out OK for you, on average dice rolls, you would have won that exchange easily I think... Especially on a point vs point comparison... Bad luck on the dice though... One thing, I'd almost have suggested more fire into the first rounds drop pods. :-) As a BA player, I can say, they're the bigger threat really than the DN if there is something else coming in... Though I think I'm the only one there playing the full drop army at the moment...

Cool

Well, even after the lances, they do have krak grenades, so the Cav aren't useless against most armor... LR's, yes, but otherwise... I guess I just see them as too fragile a unit, especially after testing out the Wolf Cav... But tucked away in the mass of troops you field, I think they might work out well for you...

pchappel wrote:Well, even after the lances, they do have krak grenades, so the Cav aren't useless against most armor...

They do?

...

They DO!

Wow, that just sealed their fate. I am totally getting rough riders next.

Ailaros wrote:

pchappel wrote:Well, even after the lances, they do have krak grenades, so the Cav aren't useless against most armor...

They do?

...

They DO!

Wow, that just sealed their fate. I am totally getting rough riders next.

hmmm... i didn't catch that one either... dammit, now you two have got me reconsidering how to make cadian dirt biker rough riders again!!

Note that experienced opponents who have previously faced rough riders will always shoot the horsies. Newbies often don't gun for them though--if I had a dime for every time an opponent reached for his dice to make a save after being hit by my horsies only to be informed by me that those are power weapon attacks I'd be wealthy indeed. Thus, if you do use horsies, either use 2-3 good-sized squadrons-as Ailaron intends-or take ablative armor (read tanks) to ensure their survivability. Chappel's comment about fragility is dead on.

Since I only have a single squad of horsies, I have taken to keeping my single squad of horsies in reserve, using the astropath to bring 'em out when I want to (an option not available to IGers in 3rd or 4th edition), and using 'em to counter-attack the ever-present flankers and deep-strikers who make it to my line. Thus my horsies are defensive in nature whereas my assault blobs or Chimera-mounted squads are offensive in nature.

Good luck.


Tallarn Commander

IG, "We are many. They are few."

Ailaros, you going to play in the 1500 this weekend? Thinking I'll play the Praetorians again... It's novel having a chance to actually win a scenario by the victory conditions for a change... I may have to break out my RT era cav at some point... I never assembled them in the old days, I used a squad of jump troopers to fill the mobile Lt Cav role for me, and the Ogrym to fill the Heavy Cav role... The Orges are still my "linebacker/free safety" troopers, and it's surprising how well they do, but at 40/per they're more expensive than a Sentinel each...

Still a bit puzeled by the Manticores, on paper at least they seem like they'd be far better than I've seen them in the field...

Tallarn Commander wrote:Note that experienced opponents who have previously faced rough riders will always shoot the horsies. ...Since I only have a single squad of horsies, I have taken to keeping my single squad of horsies in reserve, using the astropath to bring 'em out when I want to (an option not available to IGers in 3rd or 4th edition), and using 'em to counter-attack the ever-present flankers and deep-strikers who make it to my line.

Yeah, as a guard player, I'm well versed with playing with fragile squads If I didn't like it, I'd play space marines. As well, if my opponent is shooting my horsies, they're not shooting my power blobs, or SWSs, which is where the real damage is coming from. I actually kind of like that they have a psychological factor to them, like artillery.

As for the reserves strategy, I was assuming I'd use that more often than not, actually. Once the drop pods land, I cream whatever falls out of them without recourse. Once I start getting stuff tied up in blob squads, they make a sudden appearance, able to assault things 24" from my table edge (with good rolls). I'm invisioning a unit that is a big surprise around turn 2 or 3, rather than something that starts out on the board just to get picked off. It would also be awesome and a half in dawn of war games.

pchappel wrote:Ailaros, you going to play in the 1500 this weekend?

I'm trying to figure out if I want to or not. Given that there's a $10 entry fee, does that mean the winners get prizes?

pchappel wrote: The Orges are still my "linebacker/free safety" troopers, and it's surprising how well they do, but at 40/per they're more expensive than a Sentinel each...

I have also seriously considered ogryn. I think the reason I'm considering riders more right now is that riders do more damage while ogryn have more stubborn survivability. The thing is, though, that I have a lot of stubborn survivability with my power blobs, and if I get the riders (which are cheaper), I can afford to bump each of them up by 10 dudes. Comprehensively, I think the riders are better. If I find I really don't like them, then perhaps I'd consider adding ogryn later.

pchappel wrote:Still a bit puzeled by the Manticores, on paper at least they seem like they'd be far better than I've seen them in the field...

Yeah, I'm becoming more and more dissappointed with this dissonance between paper and fieldwork.

I think that really it comes down to two things: skimmers and drop pods. I have yet to play against a person that doesn't have at least one of the two of these. Drop pods make it so that my manticore can't stop mobility, and skimmers reduce the damage I do by half. Basically, manticores are only good against conventional vehicles (like land raiders *cough*), of which there are very, very few at our gaming store. Every model has a counter, and it appears that everyone around is taking them as part of their strategy.

Perhaps if there were more horde players or mechanized lists, they would do better. Until then...

Yes, the entry fee goes into the prizes... Not sure the exact payout, but it's store credit, usually for at least the top 3... IIRC, players in the league get a discount on the entry fee as well, but I could be mistaken on that...

:-) I was surprised how well the Orgyn did against Eldar, Instant Death on the charge, etc... I think that I was pretty lucky with my draws though, Tyranids and Eldar did not seem used to the T5, 3 wound guys just holding the line in place...

I'm pretty sure this guy broke the rules, unless you killed his cannon somewhere and I missed it; artillery units cannot charge as long as at least one gun remains.

good stuff! Your battle reports are awesome
but... jesus... your bad luck hurts me even when just reading what happend -,-

Ah-ha!

I love my RR's. What a lot of people forget is that they come with Krak grenades as standard, so once you've used up the lances, you can go round smashing up tanks with your 18"+ charge move for the rest of the game. And they kill MC's superbly as well. the 5 extra points for meltabombs on the RR sergeant is a very good investment.

I would advise against giving him a power weapon, as you don't really want to be charging most squads once you've used up your lances. 4 S3 I3 attacks aren't that great when you've not got the blob to absorb the inevitable casualties.

Also, meltaguns are probably not as good a choice as you'd think, since most of your mobility comes from your assault move. it's better to get 8-9 krak grenade hits on rear armour after a run move then potter around like infantry trying to use meltaguns.

I've yet to find any plastic lancer models online anyway, so if you were to use the above minis I'd reccomend getting these lances from the assault group: http://www.theassaultgroup.co.uk/store/product.php?productid=371&cat=31&page=3 and converting the above curaissiers to use them. There's a lot of choices of spears there, and they come at about £3 for 10.

The best deal for lancers that I found online was at renegade miniatures: http://www.renegademiniatures.com/ww1/ww1b11.htm although they're metal and might not fit your vibe, they look quite mordian and I'm fond of them.

Finally, always check with your FLGS before bringing in non-gw minis. I only use non-gw stuff and my local dude is ok, but some people can apparently be a bit weird about it.

Oh and I love the Perry miniatures stuff and use their British Napoleonic Line Infantry box for most of my infantry. Joy!

Tallarn Commander wrote:Since I only have a single squad of horsies, I have taken to keeping my single squad of horsies in reserve, using the astropath to bring 'em out when I want to (an option not available to IGers in 3rd or 4th edition)

You mean most likely in turn 2? Astropath doesn't allow you to bring them out when you want

Fetterkey wrote:I'm pretty sure this guy broke the rules, unless you killed his cannon somewhere and I missed it; artillery units cannot charge as long as at least one gun remains.

Oh, wow, you're right. This would have made a huge difference as well. I know I should know all the rules, but it's a little frustrating to think that things went wrong due to a rules understanding of a unit I've never used compared to one my opponent uses every game.

Fire_for_effect wrote:good stuff! Your battle reports are awesome
but... jesus... your bad luck hurts me even when just reading what happend -,-

Thanks. My new dice arrived yesterday. Hopefully they will know how to perform properly.

Captain Roderick wrote:Also, meltaguns are probably not as good a choice as you'd think, since most of your mobility comes from your assault move. it's better to get 8-9 krak grenade hits on rear armour after a run move then potter around like infantry trying to use meltaguns.

Yeah, okay. I suppose whenever they are in range of meltaguns, they're in range of charging. I guess I was tempted with the idea of being actually decent against heavy armor, instead of just relying on a single meltabomb.

Captain Roderick wrote:Also, meltaguns are probably not as good a choice as you'd think, since most of your mobility comes from your assault move. it's better to get 8-9 krak grenade hits on rear armour after a run move then potter around like infantry trying to use meltaguns.

Ailaros wrote:Yeah, okay. I suppose whenever they are in range of meltaguns, they're in range of charging. I guess I was tempted with the idea of being actually decent against heavy armor, instead of just relying on a single meltabomb.

Yeah, it is a little annoying, but If you've got yourself into 6" for shooting a meltagun at heavy armour, why didn't you charge the thing last turn? The only way I can think of meltaguns being useful on RR's is if you are facing a lot of Land Raiders. charging in, trying to pin a bomb on, and therefore being a distraction for that LR and its occupants since whatever they try and do, you'll probably end up in close melta range of the raider next turn and be able to assault afterwards. The threat of the meltaguns will make your opponent adjust their plans. You might occasionally get to use them, but since you're only BS3 and will probably be outside order range due to your mobility, they shouldn't be counted on. Anything that's got rear armour of 11 or less you should just charge anyway.

Rough match mate. I faced a Land Raider for the first time yesterday and popped it first shot of the game with a Tau Railgun. That many meltaguns shoulda popped it easy. Shame, that. Seems like you had a good army and strategy to continue to do so well despite all your bad luck. Good show!

As for rough riders, well, you've convinced me as well, and I don't even play Guard! I feel I'm finally at the point in my own skill where I recognize useful units from fear factor units and the Bassie is definitely a fear factor unit. Rough Riders on the other hand, I actually see being a useful fit for your army, what with the short range focus.

If you're worried about using GW models for certain stores or Tourneys, have you looked at using Fantasy models to convert over? I don't play, but I think Brettonia as a Cavalry based force might have something convertable for you.