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The epic saga continues! We stepped the game up to 2k so Sanctjud could bring in his entire collection and keep me out of my comfort zone. I jest, but 1750 is what I consider a high amount of points.

Company Command Tank, Vanquisher, co-axial Stubber, Lascannon, 190
Atlas Recovery Vehicle, Skilled Driver, 90
Leman Russ Battle Tank, 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank, 150
Leman Russ Demolisher, 165
Leman Russ Punisher, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, 200
Armored Fist, Heavy Bolter, Sniper Rifle, 120
Armored Fist, Heavy Bolter, Sniper Rifle, 120
Armored Fist, Heavy Bolter, Sniper Rifle, 120
Armored Fist, Autocannon Turret, Hullmounted Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Ace Gunner, 125
Armored Fist, Autocannon Turret, Hullmounted Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Ace Gunner, 125
Medusa, Bastion Breacher, 140
Medusa, Bastion Breacher, 140
Colossus, Slick Loader, 160
1995

This list takes what I learned from my last game and applies it on a larger scale: take more scoring units, spend less points on Colossi, get an Atlas. I did have a last minute change and I ended up taking a Deathstrike instead of the Colossus. That probably wasn't a smart idea, but it was certainly fun[ny].
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Razor's Kiss Bikers.

Captain, Bike, Relic Blade, StormShield.
Libby, Bike, Avenger, Null Zone.
9 Assault Terminators (7 Hammers, 2 Claws).
8 Bikers, 2 Meltas, Fist, Hvy Bolter Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 Meltas, Fist, Hvy Bolter Attack Bike.
3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes.
3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes.
3Hvy Bolter Attack Bikes.

So, again, an allcomers list. The Termies are a pretty huge point sink. They are still something I'm experimenting with, but they won't be shown doing what they are supposed to be doing.
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Sanctjud: So a little story: I was talking how much the Random Number Generator (RNG) was giving me the cold shoulder. The mission we rolled was Sieze Ground, again, with 4 objectives. And then I call the roll for Dawn of War. Knowing that that ass of a terrain piece in the bottom right was there, I'd have to win the roll off and essentially be forced to go first to deny DarkHound that terrain. The RNG heard my cries and I win the roll off. So, I do the traditional conga line. I was suprised I ran out of horizontal board. Anyway, the flamer bikers are the brown based bikes while the teal color bikers is one of the melta squad. The Captain joins the teal in the middle. As poor of an idea it was, I put the Termies into Deepstrike, everything moves on turn 1.

DarkHound: More discomfort. His bikes are too close. Almost all my vehicles can move 6" and shoot, so I won't be missing out of firepower, just positioning. I juggle the deployment rules to get my Punisher on the field, as it is actually a Troops choice although it cannot score. The Atlas is also technically an HQ choice, and I deploy it instead of the Vanquisher because I foresee a need to Tank Shock. If it came on from reserves it'd have to spend 6" of movement just getting onto the board, which doesn't leave me a lot of movement to spend Tank Shocking.


Sanctjud: So the attack bikes move in first, turboing in. Then the libby and the last melta squad turbos in. In movement, teal turbos close to the baord edge their minimum 18" while brown tempts the RNG and no body dies to Dangerous Terrain check I forget to move the Captain :-( As easy seen, brown wipes out one troop choice. Now, just gotta wait for all the metal to roll on...


DarkHound: And so it does! The very ground trembled as my treads churned the earth! The hearts of my enemies - oh, what? Yes, uhh, the battle report. Some lucky Death or Glory action sees the teal Meltagunner run over by a Chimera. I know I'm screwed when my Punisher only manages to inflict 2 wounds, both of which he saves. Some painfully unlucky scatter sees the Medusa almost destroy its own weapon, but being open-topped saves the day and it only immobilizes itself instead. I manage to pop a biker here or there, but nothing major.


Sanctjud: Heavy Bolter AB's get LoS on the right Medusa and shut it up for a turn. The left MMAB and Captain shoot and charge the Atlas amounting to it losing its only weapon and being unable to shoot. Green Bikers turbo to the left side. Teal repositions to charge 2 Russes and the immobilized Medusa, amounting to a ripped off turret on the left Russ. Brown bikers on left shoot the center Chimera on that side, fail and proceed to charge everything there. The results are a weapon destroyed and a shut up Chimera. A little jerky move: The 2 flamers postion to hit the 2 chimeras side to side resulting in that weapon destroyed result. It should be said first: Termies are rolled and get in! WOOT! BALLS TO THE WALL DEEPSTRIKE! I aim for the small open space between the two concentrations of Guard. SCATTER! Mishap on the russ. The teleporter dude was obviously drunk. DarkHound places them obvioudly far away and in terrain. They run a bit and are now 360 points of Phail. Well lots of damage everwhere, but stuff is not dying at a rate that would make me feel comfortable.


DarkHound: Alright, now my tanks can get down to business. A combination of clever Tank Shocks and template placement sees the teal bikers all but dead, the brown bikers fleeing with heavy casualties, the Heavy Bolter ABs dead and a parting shot from the immobilized Medusa reduces a MMAB squad to a single member who fails his Ld test. At this point I think I'm in a pretty good spot: just have to keep the pressure on and I'll send his army packing. I was wrong.


Sanctjud: Termies move/run a bit forward. Bikers on left continue to run. Green Biker move up and melta the lead Chimera on the left side, exploding it, killing a bunch with them running away. Teal bikers move to get some back door action on the Chimera there and fail. ok, it's time to fist the back door then ( ), but even that fails :- / really..? Full Strength MMAB move over to blow up one Russ. Captain smacks a Medusa to death. The single MMAB wrecks the Atlas with a krak grenade. Wowzors... lots of 'balancing' as I would describe it.


DarkHound: This is about the time my Punisher realised that being a Leman Russ does not make you invulnerable, especially after seeing what was happening to the rest of my line. So he and the Chimeras agree to end the green biker squad, and they do. My sexually harassed Chimera makes a 1" backwards Tank Shock that sends the teal bikers fleeing (these guys can't catch a break). The Vanquisher and Demolisher kill the Captain and lone MMAB while moving to get LoS on the rest of the board. This being the bottom of the third, I think I'm still ahead here.


Sanctjud: Libby is an all star and explodes the left chimera with a Krak Gren (wowzors). MMAB's shoot and charge to wreck the other left Chimera, with dudes unable to deploy everybody in the back nor emergency disembark fully. Teal runs some more, but brown regroups and moves with green to try and get within the minimum range of the Deathstrike.


DarkHound: Alright, this is going to be close. Bottom of the fourth and I've only got 1 viable scoring unit and nothing to protect it with. Maybe a dash to the Rhino graveyard objective will save me? Oh, and speaking of the Deathstrike, it finally decides to fire and I try to target the very tip-top-outer-most edge of the MMABs, but it is within the 12" minimum range. ****. Sanctjud is a great opponent here and lets me position it over the brown bikers as they were going to be my target before I considered the safety of my Chimera. Even with a scatter roll of 9 it manages to kill both of those squads. Shooting from the Vanquisher, Demolisher and empty Chimera at the graveyard finishes off the teal bikers.


Sanctjud: Libby takes out the remaining Guardsmen next to him. Termies get out of terrain. MMAB's chase down and destroy the Chimera, and assault DarkHound's last scoring unit. They're killed in a sweeping advance. Last remaining scoring model in my army turbos to the leftmost objective.


DarkHound: Now I'm looking at a draw. The only way I can win is by tabling him, and with those Assault Terminators still on the board that isn't looking likely even with a 7 turn game. So the Punisher monsterously overkills his last scoring biker and the Demolisher kills two of he MMAB and forces the third to flee, but alas a day late and a dollar short. The Vanquisher tries to pop the Librarian, but he goes to ground and makes his 6+ save. Sanct can be quoted as screaming "NO U!!!!!!" I'd even killed the Librarian preemptively, and as you can see he was hastily replaced by a Sorcerer on a bike.
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There isn't much of a post game wrap up here, but that was a dangerously close game. Whoever's turn had just finished was winning. Although there were a couple list choices we both regret, we played that game to the best of our ability and I think that shows in how back and forth it was. We don't expect a rematch of these armies, although Sanct is eager to bring out the Crap Legion and I'd be honored to play against it.

Cool report, and very close game. There's nothing more rewarding than a close game played against a skilled opponent.

I was there for the game. I wasn't however aware a bike could go to ground.

The only prerequisite for going to ground is that the enemy has rolled to hit and to wound and you haven't taken any saves or removed any models. Bikers, Jump Infantry, Artillery, etc. can all go to ground.

As for the libby g2g'ing, I'll double check when I get back home. Maybe ImRightBehindYou has something cause on second thought it would be wierd to turbo and then go to ground....we'll see when I get my hands on a codex.

Eitherway, the death of the libby at the end of the game mattered little when the RNG was tired of our game and ended it.
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Unit rundown...(that's not erased cause the post is too long...sheesh).

Captain: what cool guy, he blows up a tanks and then dies to the first wound inflicted upon him.
Libby: MVP. Kills a tank. Kills a scoring unit. Survives an anti-tank round to the face (if I played it right ). All of which had nothing to do that he was a Librarian.......durrrrrrrrr

Termies...360 point handicap yay? Ugh... I hate to say it, but I'd prob. do better with a Command Squad on bikes with..... just even the Banner to re-roll morale and nothing else. GAWD. I want to like the squad but this game doesn't really show what they can do.

Bikers performed as expected, get in, phail at shooting, then sorta phail in combat. They were decent enough darting around (falling back alot too).
I commit them too early, and hence their demise. I just don't think I can wait against a list like Darkhound's though.

Attack Bikes: decent, not too much to say about them really as they do their job.

Good to see to of the better Tacticians in action. Kudos!

Love it - the effort you guys put into your reports is very much appreciated. Again can imagine some of the colourful language between you guys.

DarkHound im keen to see you T A B L E Sanct's crap legion - and an abridged transcript of what he types as you do it :O)

Sanct is it true you will use a Bike Cmd Squad! Do it! Then write it up, im keen to see how it goes.

I'm sure they will roll double boxcars and run off the board first turn.....as for the colorful language.....I was talking about a couple more things I'd do to that molested Chimera.......it's just too bad there was no penetration and explosion results.....oh yea... much loving given to the RNG.

As for TABLEing Crap Legion, there is no morale victory vs. Crap Legion!!!!Winning with it is Epic and losing with it doesn't count Win/Win MUAHHAHAHAH!!
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Note to those just flipping through, Vassal is awesome, but it no way 'replaces' normal 40K. Due to the 2D way we play, there are plenty of nuances that make it not as exacting and less tight than a RL game.

IMO, Vassal is a wonderful tool. There is a case that GW might lose money to it, BUT, in my case, it made me invest in my biker army and keep me interested in GW....esp. with the rise of PP's WarmaHordes.

@Nurglitch: high praise, thank you, though to short-change myself, I just basically dumb-rushed him
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Note to self, some more cuddling with the RNG is a must to improve dicing performance.
I have another bat rep in the works, with the REAL bikers.

Sanct

Between you, DarkHound and Nurglitch, if time spent focusing your mental energies on something counts for something then you three have made 40k a religion.

On that basis I dont think you need apologies for using vassal. You three have all been massive help for me refining my lists and using those lists better - that in turn has massively improved my enjoyment of the game and resulted in me more than doubling the amount of minatures I have over the last 12 months.

So that aside lets bring on Crap legion.

Dark Hound think you should play it with something you dont normally play - good for a laugh, good to learn and the time if ever there was to trial a new amy :p Even if it is Sanct behind the Crap

Nice game. I thought the bikes would have done more damage to the vehicle field with multi-charging krak grenades, but the killed what counted, I supposed.

It was kind of funny that you were both left with your most durable units, and that nobody was thus able to really do anything with the end of the game.

If Sanctjud starts using a Command Squad, he won't hear the end of it from me I told him a few months ago I felt it was important/needed in a biker SM list...Donno if his feelings have *changed* but I notice he's trying to find use for Combat Tactics more now.

If you do consider the Command Squad on Bikes don't miss out on them being a capable CC Squad as well. An example in what my Dual Command Squads are (Yes I use two for those that don't know me I don't have Psy Defense but really, only Eldar bug me about that.)

Command Squad (5): Bikes -
2x Lightning Claws, Storm Shields, Meltaguns
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield
1x Power Fist, Storm Shield
1x Apothecary

It's hefty (355 points hefty) but you got 3+/4+ FNP/3++, which is roughly equal to termies in armour, 3++ Storm Shield save which is just awesome as it allows the unit to act as a "umbrella" to other squads and act as a front line screen to the rest of your bikes. It has 2 Meltas, so you can deal with tanks, and you have a great chance vs. everything with Lightning Claws, and a hidden Fist to help deal with the tougher beasties. Oh, and they're on Bikes, big plus compared to the Termies.

But the big question is - Why do you have the TH/SS Termies in the first place? Are they needed to counter big nasties or something anyway?

If interested: This is what I've changed to recently @2000

HQ: Captain - Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Space Marine Bike
HQ: Captain - Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Space Marine Bike

Command Squad (5): Bikes -
2x Lightning Claws, Storm Shields, Meltaguns
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield
1x Power Fist, Storm Shield
1x Apothecary

Command Squad (5): Bikes -
2x Lightning Claws, Storm Shields, Meltaguns
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield
1x Power Fist, Storm Shield
1x Apothecary

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes -
A: 5 Bikes - 2 Meltas
B: 4 Bikes - 1 MM Attack Bike

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes -
A: 5 Bikes - 2 Meltas
B: 4 Bikes - 1 MM Attack Bike

TR: 5 Bikes - 2 Plasma, 1 MM Attack Bike
TR: 5 Bikes - 2 Plasma, 1 MM Attack Bike

Thanks for posting, and this is nothing personal, but (inhale) those Command Squads are just crying out for a Battlecannon/Demolisher round to the face. 3++ or no, even a single failed save pays for half of my Leman Russ Battle Tank. If I shoot 2 Battle Tanks at it, I'll probably break the squad and pay for both of them in a single shooting phase. I can't convey how big a point sink that unit is with mere words.

And exhale.

I too question Sanctjud's choice regarding the Assault Terminators. I've read several of his battle reports, but they never seem to contribute to the game. They are literally just 500 points shoved on to the back end of a 1500 list. The 1500 point army is still doing all the heavy lifting, so you're just pitting 1500 against 2000. I think you should reexamine their place in your army.

Spread out a bit, LRBTs are the least of my worries, and I face 'em regularly...Abite in a more balanced IG list from the Codex and not IA, but still. If I was to tweak to face IG, it'd be pure Troops Bikes almost, tons of squads. This is more for the all-rounder.

Other bikes would have the same issue or worse in terms of surviving, keeping as one big squad makes it difficult to move.

@Smurfy:
Actually, I was being very specific with my comments on the Command Squad.
I still don't like them, and the main reason I am considering them is not for the special weapons spam or the CC element, but for the banner for morale rerolls.

Even then, the banner is only good for morale and not all leadership tests. :-/

I don't mind listening to earful on the subject of biker (command bikes included) .
As for combat tactics, I think I've only used it once in the past handful of games that was overly beneficial (the one vs. Necrons to get out of Nightbringer charge range)...but I had intended them to get charge and die anyway, so....it was somewhat moot, or rather overkill wrt the opponent.

I mean.... no doubt if I could get Vulkan on a bike I would at these higher points. Cause if the opponent used the speed he had, I'm sure my stuff would run off the board because they have that habit.

Vs. the LRBT's the Command Squad would prob. do as splendid a job as the Hvy bolter Attack Bikes and eat a pie plate to the face... Well, in this game i spread out quite a bit, so the bubble of the banner may/may not be enough, but I won't know until I try.

Big Squads vs. Little Squads.
As competitive as I would like to be, I do have some major self-restrictions with list building.
I like the big squads, if I had to explain why, the most honest answer I have is: because.

@Darkhound/Smurfy:

Why Assault Terminators:
Because I own them.

I love converting. The main reason I haven't jumped on the Command Squad is because I haven't nailed down what I want to do with them model wise.

My assault terminators were crafted lovingly from the End of 4th ed into 5th ed. They used to be my true-scale plague marines. Now with the (base them on what they came with), my previous gaming group has disqualified my 30 termy based plauge marines from 4th ed in any of their tourneys...........so the next best thing is to indicate that I know have 30 terminators.

In addition, as a broken record, i have repeated that they are still an experiment to get 'working' for the list.

They are supposed to be a squad that covers the whole army in pitched battle giving out 3+ covers saves while not needing to be in cover. It allows me to deploy more often when facing shooty, but not so much, across the board.
Then there is the speed, they are slow, and they deter opponents from getting within 12" of them, and when they string out a bit, it's a large effective area. This (theoryhammerwise so far) allows me to more utilize Combat Tactics as the corridor of the bikers should be clear and the termies can be used to (as Smurfy has suggested) manipulate where they fallback, should they fall back.

Then there's is the whole counter attack and going up the second level of a building. The later being demonstrated in my bat rep vs. Eldar recently.

All in all, it is compitent in my head, but it's not translating well, so I'm trying to continue to make them work. I'm operating on the whole "well I got possessed, spawn, and lesser daemons to work for me, why can't the Assault Terminators."... so you kinda get why they still show up.

And I feel pretty good, getting a draw with 360 points not doing much

On an unserious note, I could have rolled with 3 Vindicators for DarkHounds Vanquisher to shoot at.


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@Smurfy's list:

I looks nifty, I like they symmetry. It's lacking the supporting elements of Elites/Fa/Hvy. But I'm not a fan of the low numbers.

Though, I've been meaning to try out the plasma bikers.

"But I'm not a fan of the low numbers. "

My list has more models than your list, I wouldn't be talking about low numbers.

Lacking support...So does yours.

Do you love picking holes in a vacuum? A pure biker by its very concept "lacks support"

@Smurfy:

Actually, the list up on top is incorrect (my bad prob.) there is a missing squad of bikers.
You have 40 models and I have 47. Certainly 7 isn't much, but I'm running 9 Assault termies that really shouldn't be there if we are talking about being super serious.

And to be extra clear, I had the min sized bikers in mind when talking about 'low numbers' rather than the army as a whole, my bad there.
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As for lacking support, I think we have different points of view on support.
I'm talking about Elite, FA, and Hvy choices to balance things out.
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A pure biker by its very concept "lacks support"

Sure, but I don't play a pure biker list. I may at 1500, but I do not have that particular self-restriction in place. In addition, 'support' comes in the form of the Attack bike squadrons who fit in pretty nicely to a 'pure biker' army.
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Do you love picking holes in a vacuum?

Please lets not get confrontational or get pointed, attack the arguement and not the poster is the adage, there has been too much of that recently on these boards...and it's tiresome. There is a misunderstanding of meaning and I prob. wasn't as clear as crystal, but I'm not looking to pick fights or set people up to fail because working with less is something completely different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit:
After reading my post in responce to your list, I made it clear that it was lacking support with respect to E/FA/Hvy slots not being used.

To note, I do try to cover my bases.

DH/Sanct when is crap legion showdown happening?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also - Sanct when you going to put up some pics in the gallery of those termies?

About that: we've started, but Sanctjud made a last minute switch. We're currently running Dark Footdar against Necronzilla in a Cities of Death game. I'll say that again: foot slogging Dark Eldar against a melee oriented Necrons in an expansion game-mode that doesn't favor either of them. We'll probably get finished by the end of the weekend, but we have to play in chunks as Sanctjud has a schedule to keep.

Ya rly.

I think the Terrain on the board is killing more of our armies than we of each other .
DAMN FALLEN TOWER!!
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Yea, no Crap Legion sadly, I'm not really in the mood to 'think real hard' And this game is soooooo one-off that I'd rather go with an army that is as one-off as it comes.

As for termy pics...... my 9 man squad?
I'll linky a route to my thread over in 40K Online that contains the picks, I haven't really done anything with them in a while. I've got to greenstuff some feet onto them. Then there's green stuffing my bikers and greenstuffing the Warmachine stuff....on top of family civil wars
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Anyway, I may have some modelling ideas for the Command Squad on bikes... with the new release of plastic BloodCrushers.

$50 ish compared to 3 metals at $75 with no extra bitz.....DAMN YOU GW!!!!!
Yea... so we'll see if I'll take Command Squads seriously in my RL list. Though missing out the termies (though they do little) is somewhat heart breaking :-(

You stick termies inside a Land Raider and they're fantastic with a Chaplain...

This works best for BA...

Loved reading this, it was great