Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So test game 2 of my Footycrons will be against my mighty Daemons of Chaos. I want to test a not-so-common army against an army thats soon to be pretty durn common...

Necrons Test List 1850

HQ
-----
Overlord - Scythe - Barge (Ravager)
Destroyer Lord - Scarabs, Weave, Scythe
5x Crypteks - All HOD, 1x Pulse (BA honor guard)

Troops
-----------
5x Warriors (Death Company)
5x Warriors (Death Company)
10x Warriors (Jump Marines)
10x Warriors (Jump Marines)
10x Warriors(Jump Marines)

Fast Attack
----------------
7x Scarabs (Flesh Hounds)
7x Scarabs (Flesh Hounds)
5x Wraiths - 2x Whips (Terminators)

Heavy
---------
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
3x Spyders - 1x claw, 1x gloom (Bloodcrushers)

vs

1850 Fiendweaver

HQ
----
Fateweaver - 333
Bloodthirster - Blessing, Might - 275

Elite
------
5x Fiends - Unholy Might - 160
5x Fiends - Unholy Might - 160

Troops
---------
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95
5x Horrors - Bolt - 95
5x Horrors - Bolt, Changling - 100

Heavy
-------
Daemon Prince - Wings, MOT, Bolt - 200
Daemon Prince - Wings, MOT, Bolt - 200
Daemon Prince - MoT, Bolt - 140

Total: 1853 pts

Mission: 3 Objectives
Deployment: Pitched Battle

I rolled off and my Daemons won the roll. After a bit of thought I decided to take first turn with the Daemons; the reasoning behind this is to keep my distance and not allow the Necrons to get close enough for volleys. As well, I wanted the scarabs to be as far away as possible when I land.

Deployment:



FYI the downed speeders are the objectives.

I roll to try and seize with the 'Crons and fail. Off we go!

Daemons T1
Primary Wave: Weaver, 2 Horror units, 2 Winged DP's, 1 Fiend unit
Secondary: Thirster, 2 horror units, unwinged DP, 1 Fiend Unit

I roll and get my secondary wave... poopy :( I pop my Pulse on the 'Crons (playing as though I didn't know what the Daemon player would do). Everything drops a good distance off, I tried to keep everything behind terrain. Sadly, everything scatters backward; so instead of being about 24" or so away, most of my stuff winds up being 30" away. Bad start.

I run everything either behind buildings or to spread out.




Daemons 0 - Necrons 0

Necrons T1
I advance the horde. I move the barges toward the far right unit or horrors; I know I wont get them this turn, but setting up for next turn. I also turbo my command barge toward the middle horror unit; I'll use the barge to distract as the Daemons cant let him go. Otherwise the Overlord will mince the small horror units.

Shooting I cant really see much of the daemons, or I'm out of range, but I do manage to put 1 wound on the thirster with a lance.




Daemons 0 - Necrons 1

Daemons T2
I roll reserves and get a good roll! my fiends, weaver, and both winged princes drop in. Weaver, and both princes land spot on. The fiends scatter a bit.

I move the thirster up into weavers bubble, and move my moveable fiends toward the Barge. Both horror squads move to try and fire on some stuff. My unwinged prince in the back tries to bait the wraiths.

Shooting I miss everything or fail to do anything.... sigh. Both horror units whiffed pretty baddly (the right side unit was 2" from hitting the scarabs). I run weaver to get everything in the middle into his bubble.

In assault the Fiends manage to explode the command barge! He passes pinning.



(P.S. Mephiston stood in for the Lord as I forgot him at home :( )

Daemons 0 - Necrons 1

Necrons T2
The horde rumbles on! My scarabs make the move on thr right to charge my horrors. On the left, my now bulging unit of Scarabs (13 strong) moves forward, I'm thinking of holding them back to watch objectives and stop any Daemons from getting too close. My overlord moves over to make room for the Wraiths to come in and stomp some fiends. Both Barges move to get some shots off on Weaver and the princes.

Shooting all my Warrior units (due to moving, had to get them closer to the objectives) are out of range... At this point I'm thinking 4 units of immortals with Tesla might be better. The lances fail to hit or I make my saves. The middle-most barge unloads on Weaver, scoring 2 6's! Thats 8 total hits, and he scores 8 wounds! Weaver passes them all, and I fail to roll a 6 on any other units (he was close to a lot of stuff!) My other barge, sadly, cannot see the grey DP over the middle terrain :(

In assault my horrors on the right get mulched by the scarabs, who consolidate poorly. In the middle the huge battle gets underway as the Wraiths/Dual lords charge in. I manage a staggering 12 wounds, but only 2 wraiths take wounds (one coild/one normal) after the wraiths/lords pound on me, doing 15 wounds! Luckily weavers closeby and I only fail 2 saves (way above average!). The combats tied.




Daemons 0 - Necrons 2

Daemons T3
I roll reserves and my blue horrors come in. I try to land them out of sight but they scatter; they're really close to the scarabs now. Yipes!

I move my yellow prince over the middle terrain to smack down one of the small warrior units. My thirster goes to clean up the scarabs on the right. Weaver and my grey DP move to charge the large warrior block threatening from the north. My other fiends move to reinforce the fiends already in combat. My foot prince keeps on trucking, moving into position to countercharge the scarabs (I know the blue horrors are doomed).

Shooting I fail spectacularly again, I manage to kill 2 scarab bases on the left unit, and weaver knocks down 2 warriors from the back right unit. Everything else either misses or fails to wound.

In assault my fiends charge in! Due to being so deep I'm able to keep more out of BTB with the coil. I swing in and score 3 wounds on the foot lord, and 10 wounds on the wraiths! They fail 5 total saves, losing 1 coil and 2 normal wraiths. The lord passes his checks. Weavers not nearby any longer, so the lords/wraiths swing in and manage to kill the might/1 normal fiend from the first unit. They pass Ld/saves having only lost by 1. I have to pile in, this takes more fiends than I care into BTB with the coil. My thirster butchers the scarabs leaving 1 wounded base left. Weaver/Grey DP overrun their warrior unit, and the yellow DP knocks over 3 warriors... they pass LD and 2 get back up!




Daemons 0 - Necrons 2

Necrons T3
My scarabs get bulked again on the left as they move toward the puny horror squad. All the warriors aim to take out my DP/Weaver. One barge also turns to help, while the other pivots to fire on the green horrors in back.

Shooting the Green Horrors take a brutal 9 hits (lots of tesla this time!) and only 2 survive. My Grey DP goes down to lots of firepower, despite being in Weavers bubble. Weaver alsop takes some hits but is unharmed.

In assault the thirster clears his scarabs and consolidates poorly. The Scarabs on the left clear out my horrors there, also consolidating poorly. My yellow DP finally gets unmoored from his combat, sweeping the warriors. In the large scrum in the middle things swing very poorly for the poor fiends; I pour tons of attacks into the wraiths, killing the coil, as well as doing 1 wound to both lords. They go berserk back, scoring so many wounds they wipe the last 2 fiends from one unit and kill one more from the other. After fearless, I'm left with 3 fiends (1 with a wound) against 2 lords and 1 wraith.





Daemons 0 - Necrons 2

Daemons T4
My last horrors plop on in in the middle, I need to start moving for some objectives.

Weaver and my yellow DP move over to tie up the spyders/the other small unit of warriors. My BT moves to clear out that large block on the objective to the right. My footprince moves to tie up the Scarabs. My green horrors move into cover.

Shooting I pick off a base or two from the scarabs. The horrors fail to do much harm, shooting at the warriors by the left objective. Weaver fires his bolt into the back of the barge, failing to hit (seeing a theme?) and then breaths down 3 warriors. Only 1 gets back up.

In assault Weaver cleans house, killing all his warriors and consolidating toward the large warrior block on the left. Thirster charges in and due to going last due to terrain, takes 1 wound. In return he knocks down 4 warriors. They pass Ld and 2 get back up! My yellow DP charges the spyders and everyone swings wet noodles. My blue DP takes down 2 bases of scarabs (after fearless) and takes 1 wound. in the wraith war I take down the last wraith, the lords put down 1 fiend and wound another for another tied combat.





Daemons 1 - Necrons 1

Necrons T4
Both barges pivot. They're great firing platforms once in position! With most everything else locked in combat, not much to shoot at.

Shooting they knock my green horrors to one guy! GO DUDE! The pink horrors lose 2 guys. Weaver takes a lot of punishment but still hasn't taken a wound.

In Assault my fiends whiff, the overlord passing his saves. Both lords also whiff, doing 1 wound. I fail my fearless, leaving 1 wounded fiend against both lords. The DP/Spyder whifffest continues. My BT knocks down 3 warriors, 1 gets back up and they pass ld again. My Blue DP kills another base and wounds another.


(sorry, forgot to take EOT pic here)

Daemons 1 - Necrons 1

Daemons T5
Everythings basically locked in CC, so I move weaver toward the last warrior unit. My Green Horror makes it to his objective!

Shooting Weaver knocks down 2 warriors (both get back up) and fails to hurt the barges again. My horrors suck once more.

In Assault my Thirster takes a wound and the warriors pass LD AGAIN!!!!! This battle is taking far too long :( The DP/Spyder whifffest finally gets somewhere, my DP takes 2 wounds despite being in weavers bubble. My last fiend finally dies but not before putting 1 wound on the Overlord. Both lords now have 2 wounds each! They consolidate; the overlord toward my last horror, the D-lord off to help his buddies. The blue DP kills more scarabs. Weaver knocks down some dudes, but in the process he takes a wound!!!!!!! He passes LD.




Daemons 1 - Necrons 0

Necrons T5
With all the Necrons scoring units tied up away from objectives, the Necrons need to kill off my scoringunits to have any hope of even a tie. At this point all the threats are pretty much locked in CC; with that in mind, I move my D-Lord to try and help clear out the yellow DP. I need to unlock those Spyders to help out the warriors if T6 happens... The overlord on bottom can easily clear out the last horror there, and barge fire should clear those 3 horrors squatting on the top left objective.

Shooting my 3 pink horrors poof. Nothing else really.

In assault the D-Lord charges my yellow prince. I think to myself whos the bigger threat and decide the D-lord; he needs 4's to hit and 2's to wound unlike the Spyders that need 5's and 3's. With that in mind I swing at the D-Lord to try and knock his last wound off; I hit 3 times... and fail to wound! My DP dies a horrible death as even his 4++ reroll couldn't stop 6 wounds (4 from the lord and 2 from the spyders). Weaver knocks a few warriors over again, they pass LD. The thirster FINALLY overruns his unit but rolls a piddly 1 for his consolidation. The overlord at the bottom charges my lone horrors... and whiffs! In the Blue DP combat battle rages on, the Scarabs are now down to just 5 bases.





Daemons 0 - Necrons 0

Daemons T6
I only have one chance to win; that is to try and save the last horror. But thats next to impossible; it would take at least 1 turn for my BT to come rescue him. With that in mind I just go for the moral victory. I move the BT to charge the spyders, with Weaver nearby I have a great chance of winning that combat and not dying.

In assault Weaver overruns his warriors! HUZZAH! The Necrons now have no chance of victory other than a table. The BT charges the spyders, wounding each one once... They swing in, scoring 1 wound. I roll with confidence; my 4++ reroll should have this!..... alas, it doesn't, the Thirster falls. Damn Spyders! My DP kills the Scarabs down to 3 bases. The overlord yet again fails to kill my last horror. Go dude!




Daemons 0 - Necrons 0

Necrons T6
With no hope of winning by objectives, I try to table the Daemons. I move the D-lord to reinforce my Scarabs. The spyders get ready to charge weaver, and both barges unload on him. Weaver takes 1 wound, down to 1!

In assault the D-Lord charges in, hoping to clear out that DP. I take my chances again, swinging at the lord; and this time he dies! He fails RP, and the scarabs fail again. Weaver takes a bunch of hits, but is still standing. Weaver does manage 2 wounds, killing one spyder and leaving the other 2 with a wound each! The overlord finally kills my last Horror.




Daemons 0 - Necrons 0

Daemons T7
I roll and don't get a T7, but for the sake of seeing what happens (the Daemons cannot hope to win now) I keep going.

In the Weaver combat I kill off both Spyders and consolidate backward. The DP clears his Scarabs finally and consolidates backward.

Daemons 0 - Necrons 0

Necrons T7
The overlord moves/runs. One barge fires at weaver, hes still standing! So I think about what to do... The 'Crons cannot win now, so I go for Weaver again and he finally biffs it!

Daemons 0 - Necrons 0

Result:
TIE GAME!

Aftermath: With only a DP on the Daemons side, and the 'Crons only having 2 barges and a lord on foot, it was a super close game. Here were my thoughts of both armies during this game -

Daemons
While my Daemons normally have very little issue with most MEQ armies and Mech, AV 13 vehicles are a pain in the ass for them! Daemons don't have the volume of fire other armies do; and while I'd normally rely on rear hits with Horrors for armor suppression (back armor on most stuffs 10), My horrors didn't have much at all to do this game. Even throwing shots downrange they did very little and were little more than Scarab Bait. The DP's really shined this game, creating a lot of disruption, but this game showed me a glaring defect with them; str 5. If I'd had might on them the Spyders and Scarab fights would have been much more balanced, but I couldn't rely on the princes and they really prolonged a lot of fights. The Fiends against the Wraiths was just a large dice battle, and while its my fault for moving weaver, I felt he was needed elseware more. HOnestly, 10 fiends SHOULD have won that fight, but those coils really dinked things up and I was making some hot saves on the wraiths passing 10-12 saves in a combat! I also underestimated how resiliant Warriors are; yes, you can drop quite a few in a combat. But unlike marines where killing 4 will normally break them, LD 10 makes a huge difference! As well, a bunch kept getting back up and, whats more, if they had won that BT combat there would have been 5 or so left still... pretty amazing!

Bottom line on the Daemons is it seems you cannot fight the 'Crons like you would Marines or even DE. One single MC can't do the job; it seems 2 or more is needed. You HAVE to take out 4+ warriors to reliably run them down, and Daemon Princes and things cannot do that consistently enough. I know much more what to do next time I face them; thats what practice is for!

Necrons
What can I say? This game I was highly impressed by the 'Crons. A few thoughts this game really stood out:
- Warriors - they are not offensive in nature at all. A big hindrance for them is the fact they need to stand still to get decent range, but that cuts their firepower dramatically. As well, even with HOD Crypteks they aren't that reliable; one shot isn't much, and while I'm sure its awesome in some games (mech spam) it doesn't do diddly in other games. Why do I wanna fire my lance at an MC 36" away when the warriors can't reach it? If I move the warriors become even less effective. At this time I'm almost thinking 4 units of 7 Immortals with Tesla might be a better bet; both offensively, and defensively.
- Annihilation Barges - These things have the potential to output a LOT of damage. The issue, though, is relying on 6's; I had a few insane volleys, but normally they don't do too much. I think I need to get some tests in against Mech-Spam or Nids to find their potential.
- Wraiths - So damn good... I'm almost tempted to run 2 units. These guys really shine in tarpitting enemies and eventually overwhelming them. A must in my book.
- D-Lord - He was a beast this game as well. I'm realizing more and more that a T6 charecter in a unit is amazing. If you can keep him away from Fists hes a boon; the only issue I see with him might be against GK forcing him. But even then, if its not Draigowing, they have to choose; str 5 or force? And hopefully by the time they do swing the Wraiths will have done some damage.
- Overlord - The two test games the Barge hasn't done diddly. I can see how beneficial it is, but man... for the cost, I almost just wanna run Imotekh. He'd make the army more survivable, and probably wreck just as many vehicles. and Missile Spam Longfangs would be a lot less scary.
- Scarabs - While the Daemons have no armor, these guys really did some work! Their insane threat range mean't the Horrors couldn't get good volleys off on the warriors, which I did try, and then the Horrors got dominated. Just the size of their threat bubble keeps foes away.
- Spyders - This is the first game I've played where they saw combat, and I gotta say; they're tough buggers! They only really have to fear Force Weapons. Everything else I think they'll slowly grind through. Well, and things like Jaws... yay for gloom tho!
- HoD Crypteks - I'm still on the fence with these guys, but at current time I'm gonna say; crap. Scarabs are far more reliable, I almost want to run defensive Crypteks. Lances are just so unpredicatable.

Hope ya'll enjoyed the rep; I'll try and start getting test games in against friends, but with 2 tournaments in the next couple weeks it looks doubtful. Thanks for reading!

I don't know if all those scarabs are even necessary against daemons. I think I would have gone with wraiths through and through

and maybe toss out one or two squads or warriors to bring in a C'tan shard with Time arrow and Writhing Worldscape

I'm so confused by the "other" in the poll...

You either Win, Lose or Draw... How is there an "other"?

Anyway, I think I'm leaning more towards the Daemons.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:I'm so confused by the "other" in the poll...

You either Win, Lose or Draw... How is there an "other"?

Anyway, I think I'm leaning more towards the Daemons.

Iranna.

SUCCESS! I dunno... I just felt like putting a 4th lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

King Pariah wrote:I don't know if all those scarabs are even necessary against daemons. I think I would have gone with wraiths through and through

and maybe toss out one or two squads or warriors to bring in a C'tan shard with Time arrow and Writhing Worldscape

I'm testing TAC vs TAC not kitting lists against each other

Iranna wrote:I'm so confused by the "other" in the poll...

You either Win, Lose or Draw... How is there an "other"?

Anyway, I think I'm leaning more towards the Daemons.

Iranna.

Cat jumps up on table, falls asleep on an equal amount of Daemons and Necrons.

That's what I'm betting happens.

This should be an easy one for the daemons.

jy2 wrote:This should be an easy one for the daemons.

Not if the cat has something to say about it. With the possibility of a cat being included in necron player's force org, well, it's going to seriously slant my opinion of the necron's chances. Let's consider some problems of theoryhammer with the inclusion of a cat.

Problem 1 - If the necron player has a trained cat, and therefore a distinct advantage, the statistical chances of the outcome can be measured accurately. But if the cat scatters in a random direction, transferring a large and uncertain amount of variance to the outcome. If the cat has a docile demeanor and low interest in engaging models, the collision does not disturb the game's momentum very much, but the scattering will have a negligible effect on the game's progress.

Problem 2 - If a large cat is used for the throw, the cat's trajectory can be well resolved (see Rayleigh criterion); but by the principle of conservation of momentum, the transverse momentum of the incoming cat and hence the new momentum of the cat resolves poorly. If a small cat is used, the accuracy of both resolutions is the other way around.

junk wrote:

jy2 wrote:This should be an easy one for the daemons.

Not if the cat has something to say about it. With the possibility of a cat being included in necron player's force org, well, it's going to seriously slant my opinion of the necron's chances. Let's consider some problems of theoryhammer with the inclusion of a cat.

Problem 1 - If the necron player has a trained cat, and therefore a distinct advantage, the statistical chances of the outcome can be measured accurately. But if the cat scatters in a random direction, transferring a large and uncertain amount of variance to the outcome. If the cat has a docile demeanor and low interest in engaging models, the collision does not disturb the game's momentum very much, but the scattering will have a negligible effect on the game's progress.

Problem 2 - If a large cat is used for the throw, the cat's trajectory can be well resolved (see Rayleigh criterion); but by the principle of conservation of momentum, the transverse momentum of the incoming cat and hence the new momentum of the cat resolves poorly. If a small cat is used, the accuracy of both resolutions is the other way around.

Don't matter.

Daemon models won't even be on the board yet due to daemonic assault.

Fat cat only has necrons to attack.

Yea but an all DS army against crons is gonna really benefit the crons since either the demons will have to deploy out of range of the crons weapons (in which case they'll also be out of range) or they'll have to deploy close and suffer a round of shooting from the crons...

dbsamurai wrote:Yea but an all DS army against crons is gonna really benefit the crons since either the demons will have to deploy out of range of the crons weapons (in which case they'll also be out of range) or they'll have to deploy close and suffer a round of shooting from the crons...

Not a problem. Due to the limitations of rapid-fire weapons (1 shot at 24" or 2 shots but only 12"), fiends can drop outside their range and near Fateweaver and should be in threat range or combat by next turn. All they need is to survive perhaps 1 turn of shooting and with cover+Fateweaver, that should be easy to do.

The trick is not to wipe out the enemy unit when they charge, at least not in their own assault phase.

dbsamurai wrote:Yea but an all DS army against crons is gonna really benefit the crons since either the demons will have to deploy out of range of the crons weapons (in which case they'll also be out of range) or they'll have to deploy close and suffer a round of shooting from the crons...

Exactly my thoughts! As well, the Wraithstar really has nothing to fear from any of the Daemon assault units; unless the Daemons can take down the D-Lord early, or whittle them away with shooting, The Wraiths will do well against them. Mulling over the game I'm honestly thinking the 'Crons have a better chance at this one simply due to tactical advantage; of course, the 'Crons might not be able to stay stationary depending on the Objective placement.

Who knows...? I'll be conducting the game on Tuesday or Wednesday; I'll be heading up to AI up the street to use proper terrain and such unlike the last test. I'm gonna say just mulling it over I think the 'Crons have the advantage; especially with the Scarabs who can tie up Weaver or Fiends away from the bulk of the battle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:

dbsamurai wrote:Yea but an all DS army against crons is gonna really benefit the crons since either the demons will have to deploy out of range of the crons weapons (in which case they'll also be out of range) or they'll have to deploy close and suffer a round of shooting from the crons...

Not a problem. Due to the limitations of rapid-fire weapons (1 shot at 24" or 2 shots but only 12"), fiends can drop outside their range and near Fateweaver and should be in threat range or combat by next turn. All they need is to survive perhaps 1 turn of shooting and with cover+Fateweaver, that should be easy to do.

The trick is not to wipe out the enemy unit when they charge, at least not in their own assault phase.

While I agree, the other issue becomes the amount of fire coming back. I'd want to keep Weaver more than 24" away on the drop; I cnnot let him get drawn into combat with the Scarabs. I also need to try and shoot up the wraiths and keep my Fiends free to romp through the warriors. Even if I drop pretty far off and the 'Crons then stay stationary, thats 40 str 4 shots + 5 str 8 shots, then the barges, all going into the Daemons. Even if they don't eliminate a unit, they can do a good number on them. I think the Thirster will be key to this game as hes the only model in the army that can freely stomp all over the scarabs and not be there for 3 turns trying.

This game will have to be very tactical; a bad placement or round of shooting could spell the end for the Daemons. The 'Crons wandering off alone could spell the end for them as well.

Zid wrote:While I agree, the other issue becomes the amount of fire coming back. I'd want to keep Weaver more than 24" away on the drop; I cnnot let him get drawn into combat with the Scarabs. I also need to try and shoot up the wraiths and keep my Fiends free to romp through the warriors. Even if I drop pretty far off and the 'Crons then stay stationary, thats 40 str 4 shots + 5 str 8 shots, then the barges, all going into the Daemons. Even if they don't eliminate a unit, they can do a good number on them. I think the Thirster will be key to this game as hes the only model in the army that can freely stomp all over the scarabs and not be there for 3 turns trying.

This game will have to be very tactical; a bad placement or round of shooting could spell the end for the Daemons. The 'Crons wandering off alone could spell the end for them as well.

I wouldn't drop Fateweaver that far. Just drop him from 18-24" range (just out of double-tap). He will survive. If scarabs assault him, so what? T5 and re-rollable 3+'s means it won't even phase him. He'll be stuck for 1 assault phase and next turn, counter-assault his scarabs with the fiends and and greater daemon/daemon prince. I guarantee you will wipe them out. Scarabs really don't want to be in combat with units that can insta-gib them.

I once assaulted a solo 2+ T5 necron lord with 10+ scarabs and couldn't even hurt him. I was stuck in combat with him for 3 phases until the game ended. Another time, I assaulted a unit of 2 assault terminators and power fist captain with 10+ scarabs. They wiped out my scarabs in about 2-3 phases. Finally, in 1 assault involving Draigo + 2 palainds, they wiped out my 10+ scarabs in just 2 phases.

It's really no biggie if he's in combat with the scarabs, because your counter-attack will get him out the following turn (or 2).

You're going to find that necrons won't fare very well against fast daemons. The inclusion of wraiths will give necrons a better chance against them. That is the only unit here that daemons have to be careful of.

jy2 wrote:

Zid wrote:While I agree, the other issue becomes the amount of fire coming back. I'd want to keep Weaver more than 24" away on the drop; I cnnot let him get drawn into combat with the Scarabs. I also need to try and shoot up the wraiths and keep my Fiends free to romp through the warriors. Even if I drop pretty far off and the 'Crons then stay stationary, thats 40 str 4 shots + 5 str 8 shots, then the barges, all going into the Daemons. Even if they don't eliminate a unit, they can do a good number on them. I think the Thirster will be key to this game as hes the only model in the army that can freely stomp all over the scarabs and not be there for 3 turns trying.

This game will have to be very tactical; a bad placement or round of shooting could spell the end for the Daemons. The 'Crons wandering off alone could spell the end for them as well.

I wouldn't drop Fateweaver that far. Just drop him from 18-24" range (just out of double-tap). He will survive. If scarabs assault him, so what? T5 and re-rollable 3+'s means it won't even phase him. He'll be stuck for 1 assault phase and next turn, counter-assault his scarabs with the fiends and and greater daemon/daemon prince. I guarantee you will wipe them out. Scarabs really don't want to be in combat with units that can insta-gib them.

I once assaulted a solo 2+ T5 necron lord with 10+ scarabs and couldn't even hurt him. I was stuck in combat with him for 3 phases until the game ended. Another time, I assaulted a unit of 2 assault terminators and power fist captain with 10+ scarabs. They wiped out my scarabs in about 2-3 phases. Finally, in 1 assault involving Draigo + 2 palainds, they wiped out my 10+ scarabs in just 2 phases.

It's really no biggie if he's in combat with the scarabs, because your counter-attack will get him out the following turn (or 2).

You're going to find that necrons won't fare very well against fast daemons. The inclusion of wraiths will give necrons a better chance against them. That is the only unit here that daemons have to be careful of.

Rolls were a huge part of that assault too JY, if he failed even one the scarabs would have overran him. My other issue would be barges; if you drop within 18" that means both barges can unload on weaver, and hit a LOT of units (most would be within 6"). 4 tesla shots (with rerolls) could do a lot of damage. I agree with a lot of your points; but issue is, never faced the new 'Crons with Daemons, and I yhave yet to read a rep vs em.

This, of course, is just me testing my list vs Daemons, as I wanna see how both lists do well against each other (my Daemons are coming out for a romp while GK are in the shadow of the 'Crons).

Conducted the game today; I'll get a rep up tomorrow (gotta go to work soon). It was very interesting, and I gotta say; Necrons are a lot more resilient than people give them credit for!

Necrons. Daemons never win.

Completed w/ my thoughts on the Necrons after 2 test games!

Oh, and FYI I had diced off a section of the table but about T4 I picked them up (pretty much everything was away from that edge by then)

I figured as much. Wraiths were the unit that gave daemons the most problems. Had those fiends not been tied up by the wraiths, they would've been a nightmare for the necrons. Scarabs and wraiths are IMO the 2 best units in the codex. Scythe Overlord on command barge is a close second.

Don't you miss the old warscythes. You know, when they ignored invuln's?

I dont have my BRB with me but what is keeping the Warriors from being able to move and rapid fire? I know its a noob question but it is frustrating the hell out of me while reading peoples list and reports. I know the Phaeron allows for rapid and assualt with relentless but what else?

jy2 wrote:I figured as much. Wraiths were the unit that gave daemons the most problems. Had those fiends not been tied up by the wraiths, they would've been a nightmare for the necrons. Scarabs and wraiths are IMO the 2 best units in the codex. Scythe Overlord on command barge is a close second.

Don't you miss the old warscythes. You know, when they ignored invuln's?

True enough!

I will agree that Scarabs and Wraiths have outshined the rest pretty significantly in my two tests. I'm not quite sure on the Viability of a Scarab Farm in my area (Executioners and BC russes are very common here), but I will say that I'm starting to think an Imotekh ran list using defensive Crypteks and Immortals may be a better list for me. I'll probably be changing it up; I'm just not seeing Warriors being effective in an army that already lacks punch. Necrons are very sturdy tho!

I've also gotta mention that the D-Lord is just soooo good. 160 pts for a 2+ save, MC that hides in a unit and moves 12" is pretty awesome. If they gave him the ability to take the 3++ he'd be a must include in my book!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mstersmith3 wrote:I dont have my BRB with me but what is keeping the Warriors from being able to move and rapid fire? I know its a noob question but it is frustrating the hell out of me while reading peoples list and reports. I know the Phaeron allows for rapid and assualt with relentless but what else?

Because once you move a unit you MUST rapid fire. That means that if your warriors even scoot a little you only have a 12" range. That makes them worse especially if they're in cover; if you roll low, your effective range is also very low.

If the changes to rapid fire that are rumored for 6th are true, however, I think Warriors will be pretty good. Just as of now they really suck for damage output :(

Answered my own question.

Its interesting that you run 7 bolts in your daemon list but think eldritch lances are meh. Seem fairly similar in a lot of ways -- e.g. not something you bank on doing much but a nice extra bit of ummph in some matchups. I know AP1 makes a difference but so does BS4. Any event I figure if its anyone that could see the value in the eldritch lance its a daemon player such as youself. But I can see redirecting points and cryptek slots toward something else also.

winterman wrote:Its interesting that you run 7 bolts in your daemon list but think eldritch lances are meh. Seem fairly similar in a lot of ways -- e.g. not something you bank on doing much but a nice extra bit of ummph in some matchups. I know AP1 makes a difference but so does BS4. Any event I figure if its anyone that could see the value in the eldritch lance its a daemon player such as youself. But I can see redirecting points and cryptek slots toward something else also.

Theres a huge difference; AP1, yes, and as well, with Daemons its easy to get side shots and rear shots. WIth the mobility wings grants and the fact you can DS to the side or rear, Daemons BoC's are AWESOME for dropping tanks. EL's are basically mobile missile launchers; but one shot (normally on front armor) doesn't seem to cut it, at all. In the two games I've played so far they killed a land speeder and put a wound on a bloodthirster...

It's interesting to look over your battle reps as my list isn't incredibly different from yours.

- Warriors - they are not offensive in nature at all. A big hindrance for them is the fact they need to stand still to get decent range, but that cuts their firepower dramatically. As well, even with HOD Crypteks they aren't that reliable; one shot isn't much, and while I'm sure its awesome in some games (mech spam) it doesn't do diddly in other games. Why do I wanna fire my lance at an MC 36" away when the warriors can't reach it? If I move the warriors become even less effective. At this time I'm almost thinking 4 units of 7 Immortals with Tesla might be a better bet; both offensively, and defensively.

I tried 4 units of 5 Warriors and 2 units of 10 Immortals and am switching to 2 units of 5 Immortals, 2 of 10, and 2 5 man Warriors to hide in reserve for backfield objectives. The ability to kite with Tesla is too potent. It is very, very solid anti infantry. Also, when running on foot the 3+ really makes a difference.

- Annihilation Barges - These things have the potential to output a LOT of damage. The issue, though, is relying on 6's; I had a few insane volleys, but normally they don't do too much. I think I need to get some tests in against Mech-Spam or Nids to find their potential.

I have tried three and really liked them. They are durable enough and extremely versatile. Barges aren't bad against light armor despite the ap -.

- Wraiths - So damn good... I'm almost tempted to run 2 units. These guys really shine in tarpitting enemies and eventually overwhelming them. A must in my book.

Definitely agree. These don't get enough love. I walked away from my game very, very tempted to take two units.

- D-Lord - He was a beast this game as well. I'm realizing more and more that a T6 charecter in a unit is amazing. If you can keep him away from Fists hes a boon; the only issue I see with him might be against GK forcing him. But even then, if its not Draigowing, they have to choose; str 5 or force? And hopefully by the time they do swing the Wraiths will have done some damage.

I really like the potential the D-Lord has with Wraiths. It isn't amazing on it's own, but can do some good things if, like you said, keep him away from nasty stuff like fists. For 140 with a 2+ save, it really doesn't fear all that much.

- Overlord - The two test games the Barge hasn't done diddly. I can see how beneficial it is, but man... for the cost, I almost just wanna run Imotekh. He'd make the army more survivable, and probably wreck just as many vehicles. and Missile Spam Longfangs would be a lot less scary.

I take Imo just for the potential that the lightening brings. Sure, you can't count on it, but a good turn of rolling can mean gg.

- Scarabs - While the Daemons have no armor, these guys really did some work! Their insane threat range mean't the Horrors couldn't get good volleys off on the warriors, which I did try, and then the Horrors got dominated. Just the size of their threat bubble keeps foes away.

What else can be said. They are great.

- Spyders - This is the first game I've played where they saw combat, and I gotta say; they're tough buggers! They only really have to fear Force Weapons. Everything else I think they'll slowly grind through. Well, and things like Jaws... yay for gloom tho!

I like them but am going with three Barges. I like your list in that you don't go overboard with them.

- HoD Crypteks - I'm still on the fence with these guys, but at current time I'm gonna say; crap. Scarabs are far more reliable, I almost want to run defensive Crypteks. Lances are just so unpredicatable.

I think you have to take the lances though. I am taking 5 and hiding the pulse one in an Immortal squad. The other 4 will run with Imotekh who can soak up some fire. If you consider them a more fragile but mobile long fang unit then I think they do well. Hiding them with Immortals by in large seems like it will lead to wasted shots.

Overall, great rep!

@Jgrand: good points all around. reading your post I'm almost considering an actual Cryptek unit lead by an HQ to soak wounds and a Lord with Orb. Would be a pretty resiliant firing platform; give the overlord Mindshackle and the Lord as well, and they're resiliant to assault as well (warscythes?). Couple that with 5 str 8 shots a turn.... herm.....

Zid wrote:@Jgrand: good points all around. reading your post I'm almost considering an actual Cryptek unit lead by an HQ to soak wounds and a Lord with Orb. Would be a pretty resiliant firing platform; give the overlord Mindshackle and the Lord as well, and they're resiliant to assault as well (warscythes?). Couple that with 5 str 8 shots a turn.... herm.....

That unit, assuming the Overlord takes only the upgrades listed, would come out to 390 points. I don't want to spend 100 points per missile launcher shot per turn. I think crypteks are much better spread out through squads. Think of it this way - It only takes one shot to slag a tank. The problem is we don't know which one it will be, since dice are random and all that. However taking the shots one at a time is statistically no different than rolling them all at once, except you won't waste any shots since once the tank is destroyed the next unit can move on to the next one.

tetrisphreak wrote:

Zid wrote:@Jgrand: good points all around. reading your post I'm almost considering an actual Cryptek unit lead by an HQ to soak wounds and a Lord with Orb. Would be a pretty resiliant firing platform; give the overlord Mindshackle and the Lord as well, and they're resiliant to assault as well (warscythes?). Couple that with 5 str 8 shots a turn.... herm.....

That unit, assuming the Overlord takes only the upgrades listed, would come out to 390 points. I don't want to spend 100 points per missile launcher shot per turn. I think crypteks are much better spread out through squads. Think of it this way - It only takes one shot to slag a tank. The problem is we don't know which one it will be, since dice are random and all that. However taking the shots one at a time is statistically no different than rolling them all at once, except you won't waste any shots since once the tank is destroyed the next unit can move on to the next one.

Very true; back to the drawing board I reckon!

That unit, assuming the Overlord takes only the upgrades listed, would come out to 390 points. I don't want to spend 100 points per missile launcher shot per turn. I think crypteks are much better spread out through squads. Think of it this way - It only takes one shot to slag a tank. The problem is we don't know which one it will be, since dice are random and all that. However taking the shots one at a time is statistically no different than rolling them all at once, except you won't waste any shots since once the tank is destroyed the next unit can move on to the next one.

I think in an Imotekh army taking 3-4 of your Crypetks and leaving them with Imo is decent. Imotekh really doesn't have a place if you take Tesla weapons. If he runs with some Crypteks he gives them protection. Also, the unit won't get assaulted much if you screen it well.

The problem with hiding Crypteks in squads is that most of the time Immortals will be using their weapons as anti infantry. Therefore, either the Cryptek or Immortals will be using their weapons in a non-ideal way. Crons aren't Marines. Cron units generally lack duality. They are more akin to Eldar or Dark Eldar in which units need to fulfill a certain role. Not only that, but one st 8 shot is unlikely to do much. This could mean wasting even more Immortal shot to crack a simple Rhino.

Now, you do have the option to change the Crypteks location pre game like Wolf Guard. If I was playing a Dark Eldar or Trukk list (light armor) I'd consider splitting the Crypteks into squads.

JGrand wrote:

That unit, assuming the Overlord takes only the upgrades listed, would come out to 390 points. I don't want to spend 100 points per missile launcher shot per turn. I think crypteks are much better spread out through squads. Think of it this way - It only takes one shot to slag a tank. The problem is we don't know which one it will be, since dice are random and all that. However taking the shots one at a time is statistically no different than rolling them all at once, except you won't waste any shots since once the tank is destroyed the next unit can move on to the next one.

I think in an Imotekh army taking 3-4 of your Crypetks and leaving them with Imo is decent. Imotekh really doesn't have a place if you take Tesla weapons. If he runs with some Crypteks he gives them protection. Also, the unit won't get assaulted much if you screen it well.

The problem with hiding Crypteks in squads is that most of the time Immortals will be using their weapons as anti infantry. Therefore, either the Cryptek or Immortals will be using their weapons in a non-ideal way. Crons aren't Marines. Cron units generally lack duality. They are more akin to Eldar or Dark Eldar in which units need to fulfill a certain role. Not only that, but one st 8 shot is unlikely to do much. This could mean wasting even more Immortal shot to crack a simple Rhino.

Now, you do have the option to change the Crypteks location pre game like Wolf Guard. If I was playing a Dark Eldar or Trukk list (light armor) I'd consider splitting the Crypteks into squads.

Exactly my thoughts; your pretty much just using squads as bodies for ONE str 8 shot... which isn't much. Against weaker armored targets it works (DE, Chimera side armor, Rhinos), but they blow against anything AV 13+, very unreliable at that point. I'm almost tempted to cut the Crypteks (for the most part) all together....

I did do up a new list and HOPEFULLY I can get a test game in today with it against someone other than myself... we'll see!