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With leaks of the 6th ed rules the game is looking very different already. There are some huge changes to just about everything. Seems like things will get less protection and more killy translating into stronger units that can't take much hurt.

Im personally questioning the new phase order which is now moving, assault, shooting. Still can't get my head around how that will work.

What is everyones thoughts on what might happen?

The new rules will really make the tactics of each army important, even now I am sure we are all seeing how this will change each codex, the alpha strike shooting list will now be much more of a risk to play. The one thing I do see is much faster games as things become much more killy overall; gork, morn, and khorne will be pleased.

The modifications to how units function is mostly superficial compared to the changes to how missions are played. The changes to reserve (Strike Forces), deployment (defensive fire against Deepstrike), and the Tactical Gambit add a tremendous tactical depth to the game that 5th was largely lacking. 5th had little in the way of field craft, maneuvering and planning. 6th is primed to fix all that.

So what? are we going to pretty much have to learn a whole new rule set?

As I've said a depressing amount before: We don't know if that leak is real. We have no credible source, and as a certain Mr Russel's Teapot would dictate, it's far better to err on the side of caution and say they're not real.

If the leak is real 6th edition looks like anti-ork edition.

I'm probably one of the most cynical bastards on this website, but when a 170 page document showing a complete rebuild of 40k, formatted completely correct, and accompanied by full FAQs to bring every race up to speed, I have to wonder. If it isn't true, it's a god damn better game than the one we have. I intend to start using it instead of 5th for my local games.

To Paratrooper, yes. Everything has changed. Turn order is different, there is a new stat, etc.. Everything is more lethal, so your game sense will be off for the first dozen. A big boon is how defined unit actions are now. If I remember correctly, swinging isn't just something done in the Assault phase; a Strike is a defined action available to units in close combat. Lots of stuff like that.

Like I said before, over all the effect is the same, but the game should be much sleeker and more involved simply because it is coherent.

wierdly as it is, I actually like the upcomming changes even if they weren't true. It's at least addressing some parts of the game that I thought deserved more attention and added more realism compared to some of the stuff that made no sense fluff wise. So many eldar players have complained that being the best psykers in the universe, they get beat down so bad by some space marine suddenly makes sense

how many times now have people wondered just how would a power klaw nob hit an obviously flying machine?

we've had threads complaining about how ineffective snipers were in general. We've had arguments in our local club that wanted to get charge reactions from fantasy into 40k.

Frankly even if it was a fake, I actually like the thing better in many ways. I also intend to start playing games based on these rules.

Likely it will see some revision and changes at actual launch but some of the mechanics are quite sound and add in alot more variety and stragety with less random luck.

Umm sorry to /bump the thread but what is that PDF you are talking about? and where can I find it? Hopefully it wont be downloaded to a page (pun intended)

EDIT: Nevermind I found it...yeah I am abit slow

Honestly, to say that this is fake is quite absurd. The logistics behind why any one would take the time and effort to make such an elaborate ruleset and make it at such a high quality is completely off. But of course thats just imo.

ceku wrote:Honestly, to say that this is fake is quite absurd. The logistics behind why any one would take the time and effort to make such an elaborate ruleset and make it at such a high quality is completely off. But of course thats just imo.

Never underestimate the power of a single bored 'sperging nerd with nothing to do


That said, assuming the document is real, it feels like a mess, at least as it currently stands. There's a difference between an advanced ruleset and simply a complex one, and especially for the army sizes we have today, having stuff like Fast Skimmers sport 10 special rules before they even get wargear/codex stats is a bit absurd. Instead of simply doing BS modifiers they introduce this whole "Evasion" stat thing which basically *is* a BS modifier after you actually get down to it, just a more annoying roundabout way of it.

ceku wrote:Honestly, to say that this is fake is quite absurd. The logistics behind why any one would take the time and effort to make such an elaborate ruleset and make it at such a high quality is completely off. But of course thats just imo.

I single handedly created a 1200 page document of rules for D&D back when I was playing that. This "leak" is pretty lightweight and could easily be some one's wishlist.

DarknessEternal wrote:

ceku wrote:Honestly, to say that this is fake is quite absurd. The logistics behind why any one would take the time and effort to make such an elaborate ruleset and make it at such a high quality is completely off. But of course thats just imo.

I single handedly created a 1200 page document of rules for D&D back when I was playing that. This "leak" is pretty lightweight and could easily be some one's wishlist.

Not meaning to be a douche or anything, but how thought-through were those rules?

Some of it seems needlessly complicated. Some of it makes much-needed improvements and gives tactical depth to the game. I like the improvements. I suppose as with anything it simply takes some getting used to.

Kodanshi wrote:Some of it seems needlessly complicated. Some of it makes much-needed improvements and gives tactical depth to the game. I like the improvements. I suppose as with anything it simply takes some getting used to.

I somewhat agree with this. So many new rules its as if they turned the whole system around. 40k will be completely different after this. Just hope learning all these rules is worth it if the balance is better. I mean the balance isn't too bad now considering the number of armies and units there are. It really just takes more skill to play older armies (disregarding newest vs oldest since newest updates are meant for 6th)

I'm praying it's a hoax, because it looks so so different.

Based on what I have seen and read, the new rules will make 40k a much "shootier" game. This will give the game a more science-fictiony feel, IMO, since soldiers will spend more of the game maneuvering, seeking cover, looking for lanes of fire, and firing with their own high-tech weapons. This new 40k will contrast more with Fantasy. Right now, in Fantasy, it's all about setting up for the charge and reaping the advantages of charging - most fights are resolved pretty quickly, in my limited experience. This is meant to produce a "giant fantasy battle" feel, with blocks of infantry wheeling about, shooting at each other, and charging into grand melees.

TL, DR version: we're going to see something a lot more like Infinity, but with a higher model count - a game focused on maneuvering soldiers shooting each other.

In other words, I'm likely to spend a good long while giving more attention to my Tau :-P.

Vaktathi wrote:That said, assuming the document is real, it feels like a mess, at least as it currently stands. There's a difference between an advanced ruleset and simply a complex one, and especially for the army sizes we have today, having stuff like Fast Skimmers sport 10 special rules before they even get wargear/codex stats is a bit absurd. Instead of simply doing BS modifiers they introduce this whole "Evasion" stat thing which basically *is* a BS modifier after you actually get down to it, just a more annoying roundabout way of it.

I think the problem is presentation rather than inherent complexity issues. No one can deny this thing is a god-awful mess to read; important rules in one section are presented in another and referred back to. However, keep in mind, you don't need to know all the rules. A very large portion of these rules do not apply to the armies I play, and that's fine. The fact that they exit does not encumber play, it increases possibility.

Maybe I haven't looked enough yet, but I don't think the game is going to get shootier. There are more rules for shooting now, and technically old units could have a higher output. However, assault elements have gotten a lot faster now that run is a blunt 6". The old assault system was very lethal, and the changes are only harsher. Simply improving the odds of getting to the enemy should be sufficient.

Questionable PDF wrote:A note to veterans
On first sight you might think that everything has
changed, but if you take your time to play some
games (which is always a splendid idea) you will
notice that your units act basically the same as in
previous editions of Warhammer 40,000. Once
you have mastered the rules, a game is
considerably faster than before. This enables you
to play even larger battles in the same amount of
time. The new rules allow us to expand the ways
the game is played - first and foremost the option
to give each unit its own turn instead of the usual
unified player turn. Games with more than two
players are now fully incorporated into the rules.
Upcoming Warhammer 40,000 supplements will
pick these loose ends up and present scenarios
previously unthinkable.

I had a quick glance at it ealier in the day and one thing that struck me was the apparent lack of sisters of battle in the army faqs. did I overlook them or did someone else notice that too?

I don't like it and I hope its fake. It's a complete overhaul and rewrite of the rules.
It's gonna make things more complicated, and since, IIRC that assault troops will have 22" charges now that happen before shooting (bloody stupid idea that is), we'll see plenty of Turn 1 charges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:

ceku wrote:Honestly, to say that this is fake is quite absurd. The logistics behind why any one would take the time and effort to make such an elaborate ruleset and make it at such a high quality is completely off. But of course thats just imo.

I single handedly created a 1200 page document of rules for D&D back when I was playing that. This "leak" is pretty lightweight and could easily be some one's wishlist.

You did? How long did that take you?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I don't like it. I hope its fake. It's gonna make things even more complicated, and since, IIRC that assault troops will have 22" charges now that happen before shooting (bloody stupid idea that is), we'll see plenty of Turn 1 charges.

You make assault moves as part of the movement phase now. Standard infantry can move a maximum of 12", Fleet can move 16.

DarkHound wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I don't like it. I hope its fake. It's gonna make things even more complicated, and since, IIRC that assault troops will have 22" charges now that happen before shooting (bloody stupid idea that is), we'll see plenty of Turn 1 charges.

You make assault moves as part of the movement phase now. Standard infantry can move a maximum of 12", Fleet can move 16.

So, its just like fantasy then?
Didn't GW try to separate 40k from fantasy? I mean, they removed the move stat and modifiers didn't they?

I just hope the Orks are alright. It looks like they're getting hit hard.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

DarkHound wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I don't like it. I hope its fake. It's gonna make things even more complicated, and since, IIRC that assault troops will have 22" charges now that happen before shooting (bloody stupid idea that is), we'll see plenty of Turn 1 charges.

You make assault moves as part of the movement phase now. Standard infantry can move a maximum of 12", Fleet can move 16.

So, its just like fantasy then?
Didn't GW try to separate 40k from fantasy? I mean, they removed the move stat and modifiers didn't they?

the 'leaked' PDF has movement a characteristic of your troop type. Infantry move 6", jump infantry move 8"...

Evasion is a characteristic of your movement speed and your unit type. Its kinda unclear.



Anyway, I think this thing is genuine, but its definitly in the play testing stage. I think things will get slimmed down and streamlined quite abit. Changes will be made to it, things cut out...

I am happy to see Super-heavies getting included and the changes to their rules will make them balanced and yet still feel sufficiently awsome.

Their inclusion also adds to my prediction that FW rules will become completely legal in all 40k games. This will open the floodgates to a new and brighter 40k future that is sufficiently grimdark.

It is very different, but I think it will go down in 40k lore as the golden book of rules.

It addresses so many issues that have plagued the game.

Love it

My only problem lies with the tactical gambit

Why would I not want to go second? Especially with the new reserve rules and how far my DE can move.

Read the first line.
"This section of the book explains the rules to fight Warhammer 40,000 battles in all their dark glory".
Clearly fake. GW books have their flaws, but they're far better written than this rubbish.
Just pick a section at random and you'll find an awkward, clunky syntax.
I also doubt GW have a pdf of draft rules just lying around.
So, fake. Thread over.

Lightcavalier wrote:My only problem lies with the tactical gambit

Why would I not want to go second? Especially with the new reserve rules and how far my DE can move.

Yeah, that's why I think rolling off is the better option. It's fairer that way.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Lightcavalier wrote:My only problem lies with the tactical gambit

Why would I not want to go second? Especially with the new reserve rules and how far my DE can move.

Yeah, that's why I think rolling off is the better option. It's fairer that way.

It isn't about who wants to take second. It's a matter of how many Stratagem points you can milk out of it. DE can make certain they're going second, but then they'll have only one point. DE will not be able to capture objectives on the turn they arrive, so an opponent who goes first can get dug in.

...which is irrelevant because it's a fake.