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I'm seeing a bit of a trend, an understandable one, and I figure, why not?

Discuss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Sanguinary Guard might get a little more usefulness in the coming adjustments, so that's nice.



UPDATE:

I'll be linking to BA lists posted throughout this thread (and ones on the army list forum that gain particular attention) for those interested in trying out different approaches or even just experimenting. Seeing as the lists are going to be brand-shiny-new adjustments thanks to 6th ed, be sure to remember that and some may, again, being brand new, be untested to use with caution.

But obviously there will be feedback, criticisms, or even performance reviews of the lists! I'll try and add commentary to some of these based on the aforementioned feedback and such, just for quick reference.

Mordechai's Defensive BA lineup with SW allies:




Stoffer's Revised lists (awaiting feedback!!)



Horst's Sang Guard/termie rush (1850 pts)

Blood Angels def seem to be getting a buff. Especially DOA lists.

yeah, I love me my jump infantry so this makes me pleased, and again, I think it'll make my sanguinary guard more viable...

haha, I got a pack of them for my birthday recently, and I hadn't asked for them, but now....hmm..

But yeah, exciting.

Powerweapons not negating your FNP will be annoying, but charging into orks that shoot at BS 1 will still whittle some of the numbers down.

Your Vehicles being glanced to death makes enemy infantry more of a threat and makes Assault cannons better.

Not having an invulnerable save will be less dooming to Mephiston as it takes a powerfist to negate that, and those go at I1, compared to his I7 nonsense...

Melta's taking a hit will make the tactic of suicide drops being a little worse...

l0k1 wrote:Blood Angels def seem to be getting a buff. Especially DOA lists.

I don't know about that. If there is no more running, then you will be nice and clusted up when landing close or not. I also expect to see a lot of melta guns get swapped out for plasma guns. Sang guard may be more safe in assault, but I think they are in even greater danger of just getting shot up.

Jayden63 wrote:

l0k1 wrote:Blood Angels def seem to be getting a buff. Especially DOA lists.

I don't know about that. If there is no more running, then you will be nice and clusted up when landing close or not. I also expect to see a lot of melta guns get swapped out for plasma guns. Sang guard may be more safe in assault, but I think they are in even greater danger of just getting shot up.

So far Run is still in. Plus penalties for a mishap during Deep Strike has been softened.

l0k1 wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:

l0k1 wrote:Blood Angels def seem to be getting a buff. Especially DOA lists.

I don't know about that. If there is no more running, then you will be nice and clusted up when landing close or not. I also expect to see a lot of melta guns get swapped out for plasma guns. Sang guard may be more safe in assault, but I think they are in even greater danger of just getting shot up.

So far Run is still in. Plus penalties for a mishap during Deep Strike has been softened.

From all of the bitching from DE/Ork/eldar assault based armies, I don't think run is in anymore. I may be wrong but there is a ton of bitching about shorter charge distances.

I often use Meph, the Lord of Pubstomping, and while the nerf of PW to ap3 hurts me against a few things... the obvious one being terminators.... it hurts me against the things I didn't really want Meph to get into CC with anyway. Meph gets in return: a potentially bigger charge distance (and he has fleet just in case the 2d6 isn't enough). And now I can pretty much kill most vehicles without rolling for dmg with my going Super Saiyan with that s10 causing auto pens against most vehicles anyway.

Yeah. I'll take that.

Yes, bot Astoroth and Dante just became more grusome
Axes

Anpu42 wrote:Yes, bot Astoroth and Dante just became more grusome
Axes

Yeah, I was thinking about that too, beaaaautiful


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cause I like Dante, and I've always considered giving Astorath a shot, even though he's not really my style.

Also, quick question about Sang Guard -

They have Glaive Encarmines, but 2 of the 5 are very visibly axes in a pack. That...doesn't mean anything, right?

Right?

I mean, that'd be interesting is all.

Titan Atlas wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:Yes, bot Astoroth and Dante just became more grusome
Axes

Yeah, I was thinking about that too, beaaaautiful


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cause I like Dante, and I've always considered giving Astorath a shot, even though he's not really my style.

Also, quick question about Sang Guard -

They have Glaive Encarmines, but 2 of the 5 are very visibly axes in a pack. That...doesn't mean anything, right?

Right?

I mean, that'd be interesting is all.

just different visual, same as power and force weapons can be swords, axes etc

Just making sure.

Jayden63 wrote:

l0k1 wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:

l0k1 wrote:Blood Angels def seem to be getting a buff. Especially DOA lists.

I don't know about that. If there is no more running, then you will be nice and clusted up when landing close or not. I also expect to see a lot of melta guns get swapped out for plasma guns. Sang guard may be more safe in assault, but I think they are in even greater danger of just getting shot up.

So far Run is still in. Plus penalties for a mishap during Deep Strike has been softened.

From all of the bitching from DE/Ork/eldar assault based armies, I don't think run is in anymore. I may be wrong but there is a ton of bitching about shorter charge distances.

From what I've read in the on going Rumor thread Fleet allows you to re roll Run or Charge distances. If that is true Run would still be in. Lots of people are bitching just because the new book is going to change, its the whole sky is falling thing.

Running is in but Fleet as it use to be is out, it now allows you to rell roll charge distance and your run move, it doe not allow you to charge after running now.

Other BA Buffs:
Rage +2 attacks in close combat, no move towards closest enemy. - Deathcompany look buff at this stage, I cant see any reason not to take them over any other troop choice. Relentless, FNP, Furious Charge and a huge list of upgrades will make them the troop of choice. Assault Marines with a priest may still get a look in but I feel they will be out performed but Deathcompany and a Chaplain regardless of the situation.

Jump infantry perform an impact hit at their base str and Init 10. They also get to reroll charge distances like fleet units do.

More nightfighting- Apparently nightfighing will occur in any game on a 4+, and cease on each subesquent turn on a 4+. This can only help assault armies, although shooting has got a buff this edition by the look of it.

As mentioned FNP no longer negated by anything but instant death attacks. I.e. Plasma and rending no longer cuts through it.

Have not seen what Furious charge does yet I'm still looking at Death Company + Chaplain and Sang Guard + Priests becoming the mainstay units of the army, The best thing is we can run chaplains, and librarians outside of the same FOC slots (furioso librarian, will be interesting to see the psychic power lists to see how you can buff this guy). I think I may be filling up both of them.

I'm fine with the idea of using DC more, and I'd be really, really happy with using Guard+Priest combo more often. DC models are more fun to paint than ASM anyways

You can't Run and charge with Fleet anymore? LAME!!!!!

Then you have the Baal Predator
TL-Assault Cannons + Heavy Flamer, Move 18” [assuming fast works the same] and Fire Everything.

Yeah, got another one of those recently too...hehe...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So uhh...vanguard vets...what do people think? I mean, they still have regular power armour, I like the concept of heroic intervention but with them being so expensive and power weapons being AP3, and the fact that there's still a nasty whole world of hurt waiting unless they get extra protection, I imagine a priest wouldn't hurt, even though it would sacrifice the heroic intervention. They're also just so expensive and annoying to kit out, points-wise, but perhaps the 5++ and priest, along with FNP being closer to ironclad than before - What do people think?

I reckon we gotta buff. Just to be seen how much of one.... I'm looking forward to seeing how my Ravenrush army will operate under the new way of things.

Also, terminators getting buffed is allllllways a good thing; though its to be seen how powerful gk pallys will be now (though if rumor be truth, halbards will be str 6/Init 3, so we can kill purifiers before they swing! Yay)

I'm liking the new flyer rules.. specifically my 3 new stromravens liek the rumored flyer rules... though admitadly i boguht them before i knew the new flyer rules and jsut wanted em before they jumped to 80 bucks

Jayden63 wrote:

l0k1 wrote:Blood Angels def seem to be getting a buff. Especially DOA lists.

I don't know about that. If there is no more running, then you will be nice and clusted up when landing close or not. I also expect to see a lot of melta guns get swapped out for plasma guns. Sang guard may be more safe in assault, but I think they are in even greater danger of just getting shot up.

I dunno, DOA probably got better than Razorspam, but I'm not sure if BA in general got much of a buff, if any. Obviously, 1 attack at I10 for jump infantry is great for them (thankfully it's a normal attack at base strength). Sanguinary Guard also got a big buff, they might actually be worth fielding now, and Death Company + Astaroth just became retardedly good (thank the Emperor they can't score). Luckily for the rest of us, Sanguinary Guard and Death Company are fairly expensive units.

Some stuff that does hurt though is that Furious Charge only gives +1S apparently instead of +1S +1I. My Grey Hunters would always be in trouble when they got assaulted due to the fact they couldn't swing back until after you, but now BA are going to be a slower army in general. FNP is potentially weaker, sure it's only negated by ID, but you're gonna take more casualties from small arms fire now. On top of that, Sanguinary Priests will probably never get to attack, since they can be called out in Challenges in Assault and will be pretty much toast if they even try to accept. Assaulting also became more dangerous due to Overwatch, you'll probably lose a couple guys on the charge. AP3 power weapons hurts a few units (like Blendernoughts), but isn't a huge deal overall admittedly. Night fighting's also going to be far more common and last longer, so if you get any vehicles then searchlights are basically a mandatory upgrade now (not a huge deal either).

Most of these nerfs aren't really a huge deal though, to be honest (except Furious Charge, if that one is true). I would be surprised if BA weren't still a competitive choice when everyone settles into 6th.

As a guard player who plays against BA a lot, I'm never ever taking plasma guns again - expect gut loads of meltavets in chimeras and as many Russes as I possibly can.
Your usual "strategy" of jump packing/whizzing around the enemy and shooting them up will still be viable

IM seeing VV in the same way as marbo or stormtroopers, cheap, nasty and use them to punish a mistake or to hammer a quick wedge in so your real forces can get going

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:

l0k1 wrote:Blood Angels def seem to be getting a buff. Especially DOA lists.

I don't know about that. If there is no more running, then you will be nice and clusted up when landing close or not. I also expect to see a lot of melta guns get swapped out for plasma guns. Sang guard may be more safe in assault, but I think they are in even greater danger of just getting shot up.

Death Company + Astaroth just became retardedly good (thank the Emperor they can't score). Luckily for the rest of us, Sanguinary Guard and Death Company are fairly expensive units.

Please stop intentionally misspelling Astorath just because he reminds you of that character from Soul Calibur... the rest was white noise.

Also, a unit of sanguinary guard yields 5 artificer armoured fighters with 2 base attacks, all with master-crafted power weapons, for 200 points, with the option of a chapter banner (which in all likelihood I'll probably choose, or on my HG, depends) and the option of switching for power fists and infernus pistols - I'll be damned if their advantages don't totally make them worth every point, seeing as a unit of 10 assault marines is now more possibly going to get more beaten up by the smaller things. I have a feeling you just have to see the new rules apply for them before drawing the conclusion.

But yeah...I want to try out a DC list, but at the same time I'd like to try a little guardspam, you know? It'd be kinda fun, in a way. But DC are going to be extremely potent, meaning I'll probably launch those backed by Sanguinary Guard, the scoring units, and I'm sure we'llall figure out a good setup for a solid number of scoring units for competitive play.

Either that or we just totally go medieval on their asses and count on tabling them

I keep forgetting its Astorath... Ignoring my commentary cuz of 1 spelling mistake is a little silly though, but whatever.

Sanguinary Guard are probably going to be pretty handy now, basically speedy Terminators with a bit more fragility. I wish you could take more than 5 though.

I'm not ignoring it, it's just that it's uncertain about some details is all and I'll avoid that discussion until there's more certainty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Sanguinary Guard are probably going to be pretty handy now, basically speedy Terminators with a bit more fragility. I wish you could take more than 5 though.

.....:( me too, but at least with Dante I can have them as scoring units and spam them a bit. Give them Glaive Encarmines, maybe one or two power fists, and a chapter banner...pretty sweet.

I'll be running a DOA list with 2 Librarians, 2 Priests, 20 Assault Marines, 10 Sanguinary Guard, 10 Vanguards in 6th to see how it plays for a while. I think the Unleash Rage/Furious Chare/Feel No Pain will work with greater synergy in 6th since you can dictate charge ranges easier and put that I10 foot in the face on those fast but whimpy units. Reserves are coming faster and I can reroll them so I can rely on my Vanguards more than ever while my core of marines/libbies/priests gets a nice spearhead from the newly buffed Sanguinaries. Will the two Librarians give me two different psychic card bearers or do I need to pick only one like the warlord traits? I may take Meph over the 2 Libbies depending on how the new powers work.

An interesting setup right there...

Vanguard eh? What will you outfit them with? I'm just curious.

Mephs gonna be greatly nerfed from the looks; his swords only AP3. This means termis will smash his head in more often than not...

Zid wrote:Mephs gonna be greatly nerfed from the looks; his swords only AP3. This means termis will smash his head in more often than not...

Then don't send him after Termies, Thats what DC is for