Sisters of Battle to receive a White Dwarf Codex (confirmation on pg 13)

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**AgeOfEgos**

Mannahnin wrote:

I'm more with Carmachu re: Storm of Chaos and Eye of Terror. The beginning of the SoC book said directly that it was functionally an additional volume in the interlocking 6th ed Chaos army books. That was genuinely misleading, what GW did there, and disappointing.

Eye of Terror specifically stated "Not only can these army lists be used during the Eye of Terror campaign, but they can also be used for ordinary games of Warhammer 40k as well."

**Kanluwen**

gorgon wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:Which "last codex"? Since when does GW playtest? All accounts are they got rid of that years ago.

He's telling the truth...I know guys in his group who were involved. If you didn't notice, Codex: Witch Hunters was released quite some time ago.

So what the feth relevance does that have to do with the upcoming book?

Absolutely none.

It's like the Lost and the Damned/Storm of Chaos arguments all over again.
They were really never going to be a full army on its own. They were something intended for the campaigns, and in many cases nothing really was going to come out of them

Why is this so complicated for people to understand?

As others have pointed out, Codex: EoT was a completely legal, valid codex.

For a campaign. Anyone who expected the book to continually be updated was deluding themselves

Most assumed at the time that armies like LatD would at least be "absorbed" into a future Chaos codex.

Gee. It's almost like people jumped to a conclusion and were wrong. Huh. Who knew such a thing could happen?

And I really hate to say it: but there's still nothing stopping people from using Guard to represent LatD. They lose flavor that way, but who didn't lose flavor in the transition from the Doctrines codex to what we have now?

Witness how the Speed Freeks from Codex: Armageddon were kept mostly viable in the Ork codex v4. Seer Councils from EoT made their way into Codex: Eldar v4.

Seer Councils were in before EoT. See the "Codex: Craftworld Eldar" for details.

Speed Freeks I can't comment on, as I don't have the Ork army book from the prior edition to what we have now.

It should also be pointed out that BTs from Codex: Armageddon did get their own, full codex.

Which make them a huge outlier. What's your point?

You're portraying the campaign books as having a very linear outcome, and that's simply not accurate.

Really? Let's look back.

Some armies became full armies.

ONE army became a full army.

Others migrated in some form into their respective "main" codices.

The Seer Council example is a bad one to make the point, however. They already existed.

Others went nowhere.

Lost and the Damned, as it stands, have 3 lists in existence right now. They're all Imperial Armour.

There's technically a 4th, but it's more of a "Crusade Era Marines/Army" styled list.

Note that I think it's wrong to be pushing the panic button re: Sisters. To me, a WD codex is evidence that they want to continue them, and I dunno if that was an obvious slam dunk.

And that's the problem. To assume that a WD codex now when we keep getting told that "6th edition is closer than we think" means the army is being squatted is stupid.

carmachu wrote:You know, if your going to argue GW history,perhaps you really really really need to ACTUALLY LEARN GW HISTORY.

I'd suggest you do the same since it seems Platuan pretty much schooled you.

Chaos dwarves, during the golden age of GW(pre-going public) were an actually WD army.
Then they got an actually army book CA/GW presents Chaos dwarves.

Wood Elves got a similar book. Did you think they were 'squatted'?

Then eventually got a "Ravening hordes update to 'hold them over". And have pretty much been squated since. FW not withstanding.

FW and Storm of Chaos not withstanding. Or the fluff mentions of them in the Ogre Kingdoms book.

It's pretty clear that they haven't been "squatted" so stop using that term. It specifically deals with ALL references and ALL aspects of the race suddenly disappearing.

That hasn't been the case with Chaos Dwarfs. They still are around. They've made repeated mention of that fact.

**Platuan4th**

And just to put the final nail in the Chaos Dwarf book talk, the actual release ad, courtesy of Stuff of Legends:

Please note the last paragraph:
"This full-colour book is a compilation of all the Chaos Dwarf articles first printed in White Dwarf plus additional unpublished material."

**Xelkireth**

Seriously... Personal attacks and ridiculous amounts of bickering is tantamount to...

**Claimh_Solais**

but the scary part is that (and I think it will happen now)
is that we have too wait say 3-4 years fore a REAL codex and new minis
that's what happened to Blood angels

We will only get a WD dex so the SOB army is playable and that's it, I really hope Im wrong on this one ...but GW hate the sisters

**The Grog**

SabrX wrote:
The best composition is either:
-10 Battle Sisters, Veteran Sister Superior, Book of St. Lucius, Brazier or Combi-Flamer, Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke

or

-10 Battle Sisters, Veteran Sister Superior, Book of St. Lucius, Brazier or Combi-Flamer, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke

If you field combis you may as well field dual combis. Combimelta + Brazier, 2h + 1h. The real problem with Sisters is that once out of their Rhinos they get rocked by the competition. You need to obliterate whatever you are shooting at, because 4 marines with a power weapon or fist stands a disturbing chance of taking a 10 woman squad. More importantly, they tie you up pretty much forever and weaken the concentration of force you need for the next focus fire target.

Unless you run Seraphim, who are ruinously expensive. They can be effective, but man, 3rd ed jump pack costs.

**Scarey Nerd**

Claimh_Solais wrote:but the scary part is that (and I think it will happen now)
is that we have too wait say 3-4 years fore a REAL codex and new minis
that's what happened to Blood angels

We will only get a WD dex so the SOB army is playable and that's it, I really hope Im wrong on this one ...but GW hate the customers

Fixed that for you

**kenzosan**

iv heard rumors that sisters were after necrons.

iv also heard that the artist behind d.eldar was really inspired to work on sisters or eldar. granted that could mean eldar are next.

**Claimh_Solais**

Scarey Nerd wrote:
Claimh_Solais wrote:but the scary part is that (and I think it will happen now)
is that we have too wait say 3-4 years fore a REAL codex and new minis
that's what happened to Blood angels

We will only get a WD dex so the SOB army is playable and that's it, I really hope Im wrong on this one ...but GW hate the customers

Fixed that for you

No customers buy Space marines and Deamons so its a good army

no one buy tomb kings ..but GW think they are nice soo lets make it anyway

many like SOBS but ..naa GW think they wont sell ..

**poipo32**

Omegus wrote:The issue is not so much that the rules may be worse than the current ones (although every single WD codex has been atrocious so far), it's that a stopgap codex means waiting that much longer for the real deal.

I just want to point out that Dark Eldar never got a stopgap codex, that didn't save them from waiting heck'uv'a long time.

**Marthike**

No customer buy space marine? Was that sarcasm?

**kenzosan**

poipo32 wrote:
Omegus wrote:The issue is not so much that the rules may be worse than the current ones (although every single WD codex has been atrocious so far), it's that a stopgap codex means waiting that much longer for the real deal.

I just want to point out that Dark Eldar never got a stopgap codex, that didn't save them from waiting heck'uv'a long time.

necrons.

**Xelkireth**

Dark Eldar had to wait longer. Your feeble plea has fallen on deaf ears.

**carmachu**

Platuan4th wrote:
carmachu wrote:

No, that was an army book, GW presents. Much more then just a collection.

No, it wasn't. Try opening a copy sometime. It wasn't organized like the Army books of the time, it was just reprints of the various articles but together into one book. It was NOTHING like the 4th/5th ed Army Books.

If you're going to tell someone "perhaps you really really really need to ACTUALLY LEARN GW HISTORY ", perhaps you should do the same.

Having owned a book and army,. GW treated it JUST LIKE an army book. Including updates in RH.,

So yes, it was an army book. Even though thats what it says, THEY, GW treated it just like an army for a couple of editions. If memory serves from 4th through 6th edition(w/ RH)

**nosferatu1001**

So despite being shown you were hideously incorrect, you're still continuing?

Sheesh.

The last two WD books got a full treatment later. There is an obvious need for this to remove some of the painful contradictions between the GK and WH dexes. While it may be bland, would people complain if all they did was give you wargear comparable to 5th edition wargear?

**bhsman**

I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD STOP ARGUING OVER MINOR POINTS OF NERDERY, BUT AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS THAT SENTIMENT POLITELY.

Blood of Kittens wrote:Ok, with that said let us get on with why you are really here some SoB rumors.

As always let us start with the easy ones that pretty much everyone figured was going to happen.

Allies gone
Inquisition gone
Faith streamlined
USRs updated to 5th
Cheaper Unit costs
Inquisition elements gone

So let start with the big one and perhaps most controversial change to Sisters of Battle: Faith

I am amazed reading around the Net how quite few people had great guesses on how the new faith works. One caveat about the faith rules: I only have most of the story so let us hope someone else can pluck the rest from the aether. The only thing that really stays the same is only faith producing units can use faith. Gone is the over and under rules based on model count and gone is faith powers that everyone can use. It is replaced with every unit has its own unit specific act of faith to call upon.

So for instance Repentia Act of Faith allows them to always land an attack even if they are killed before they can swing. They are little bonuses like re-rolling to wound and hit, no USRs. Now this if fine and dandy if you just pop a faith point and bam! power goes off, but not so fast. Acts of Faith require that you roll 5+ to activate . This makes faith much more unreliable… maybe. In addition every unit that can get faith generates 1d6 faith points per turn. This also means that a new faith pool is generated each turn with no storing of past faith. As well faith can be activated in multiple phases of the game, so for instance you can re-roll to hit in your shooting phase or in your assault phase. What is not clear is a few things. Like how many dice can you throw at a single act of faith? How many times can you attempt to activated a power? If you get an act of faith to go off in one phase does it carry over to the next phase? If you fail an act of faith does that mean you cannot try again in another phase? I don’t have the answers, but what do you think?

Random tidbits

All Faith generating units get +6 invul save
All units that can get transports get Immolators or Rhinos
Assassins gone (Death Cult still in)
Wargear with the same names as GK wargear stay and get changed over. (e.g. Psybolt Ammo)
Karamazov gone
Priests in, pretty much same as before.
No change to the general Bolter, Melta, Flame concept of the Sisters

Specifics

Sisters have about 5 HQ choices including Special Characters

St. Celestine: Same price as a Grand Master you get 2+/+4 saves, WS/BS 7 Jump Pack, Fleet, Power Weapons always wounds on 4+ Has the power to come back like GK Thawn if killed.

Confessor: Takes the slot of the old Inquisitors. Cheap HQ (Warboss). Can create a henchman band using most of the henchman found in the GK codex. What makes the Confessor extra deadly is the ability for it to re-roll hits and wounds for her and the squad. This is the translation of the rumor matrix. So think for one second about her and the Death Cult together?

Repentia: Cheaper close to SM cost. FNP, Rage, Fearless, 6+ invul, no transports

Battle Sister Squad: Cheaper 10-20 unit size (no combat squads), but has access to Immolators which begs the question… Immolators either get increased transport capacity or Sisters break the rules concerning model count and buying transports. Multiple acts of faith.

Exocists: Pretty much same as before.

This is it for now gents and dames. If you have any questions let me know I can see if can get them answered sometime this week with another post.

**Erasoketa**

This is the Spanish cover of the Chaos Dwarfs Army Book. I never read it, so I don't know if it was a collection of arcticles or an army book per se. The cover is the standard style of the Army Books of the time, without any details regarding the WD.

Anyway, I thought this was about Sisters of Battle.

**gorgon**

Kanluwen wrote:
gorgon wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:Which "last codex"? Since when does GW playtest? All accounts are they got rid of that years ago.

He's telling the truth...I know guys in his group who were involved. If you didn't notice, Codex: Witch Hunters was released quite some time ago.

So what the feth relevance does that have to do with the upcoming book?

Absolutely none.

Then why did you challenge him on the point? I don't understand why you took the "bigshot" tone with him in that context or the general rudeness.

And I'm not going to get drawn into a point-by-point discussion regarding campaign books. The facts are that they were considered to be official material at the time -- by players and by company reps if you would have asked them -- and that some armies did have life after GW (probably wisely) changed its mind about the whole campaign book approach. I'm not arguing anything else -- just injecting some clarity on those points.

Regarding Chaos Dwarfs, you guys are correct that it was a WD Presents book. However, note that it was for all intents and purposes an army book and treated as such. It was the same size as an army book and printed similarly, with a bestiary, army list, artwork, etc. The material was completely official, and was legal at any tourney you'd take it to. There was no question about its status from the player base or the company. IIRC, they originally toyed with releasing IG in the same fashion (and in fact some IG material did appear in WD in advance of its first official codex), but in the end they decided to go the standard codex route with the army.

**Just Dave**

Any thoughts as to this?

"The thing that puzzles me about this WD Codex is what White Dwarf is going to advertise for it? As it stands, there are few-to-no SoB models being made by GW as they haven't been re-done in Finecast and are either not being created or are still metal models. Presumably they're not releasing plastic models with the WD Codex as in that case they would have surely released a full, print Codex to support it (the plastics being priority for GW, the Codex the supporter).

So by that reckoning it means that they are either being re-done in finecast, or are having no models re-done which means there are very few models to support the SoB and allow new players to create an army.
If they are being re-done in finecast, then that begs the question as to why they weren't re-done in finecast from the start or why they're not listed for Finecast Wave 2 in August judging from a rumour thread or why they're finecasting them only to release plastic models later?

So, to me new plastics seem (highly) unlikely. Fine(re)casts seem unlikely. Which surely leaves no new models? Which would beg the question; what would WD wax lyrical about in regards to wanting your money?

I'm confused... "

**kenzosan**

Xelkireth wrote:Dark Eldar had to wait longer. Your feeble plea has fallen on deaf ears.

it wasnt a plea, it was an agreement. necrons and de, neither got "hotfixes" so to speak.

**Platuan4th**

kenzosan wrote: necrons and de, neither got "hotfixes" so to speak.

Unless you count the DE re-printing where they added Draconites and Archonites so that you could do Wych armies without Lilith as well as a few other tweaks(like new vehicle gear).

But yeah, the Dark Eldar didn't get any "hotfixes".

**Melissia**

Kanluwen wrote:
Melissia wrote:And if the troops get recast as resin, they'll raise the price MORE. Yay!

We've heard nothing at all to support this idea of them being put into Finecast. By all measures, they might have warehouses full of unsold Sisters models.

But we DO have lots to suggest a price raise.

Seeing as GW pretty much does little more than that to begin with.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:As pointed out previously, every army which already had a real codex or army book and which got a stopgap list in WD has gotten a real book again later. Whether we're talking about BA, WoC, or Sisters themselves, back in 3rd.

The only WD armies which have been dropped have been variant sub-lists. Like Kroot Mercs, Feral Orks, and the all-Dino Lizardman list. All of which were honestly pretty broken and clearly got no real playtesting. Kroot being underpowered (though with a couple of broken combos) and Feral Orks and Dinos being overpowered.

GW may have a history, but the pessimism about this flies in the face of it.

I never claimed Sisters wouldnt' get a REAL codex after...

... only that the WD/PDF codex is gonna suck

**SabrX**

Melissia wrote:

... only that the WD/PDF codex is gonna suck

If the recent rumors posted by BoK about nerfing Sisters to only 6++ and no new dedicated transports other than their mediocre AV11 vehicles is true, then Melissia is right. The new WD codex is going to suck.

I can't stand mixing henchmen into my pure SoB army. I don't want to become dependent on Crusaders and Chimeras for assault and anti-tank shooting protection.

**Sersi**

SabrX wrote:
Melissia wrote:

... only that the WD/PDF codex is gonna suck

If the recent rumors posted by BoK about nerfing Sisters to only 6++ and no new dedicated transports other than their mediocre AV11 vehicles is true, then Melissia is right. The new WD codex is going to suck.

I can't stand mixing henchmen into my pure SoB army. I don't want to become dependent on Crusaders and Chimeras for assault and anti-tank shooting protection.

Your reading that wrong. The 6++ invulnerable save is a a special rule for faithful units, which now includes Repentia as well. So its in addition to the standard 3+ armor save of Battle Sisters. Repentia apparently, get their current 4+ armor save, FNP, and a 6++ invulnerable save! I'd say that makes them worth taking, as they'll be far more resilient than they are currently. I'm not seeing anything to complain about with those rules.

As far as the AV11 transport vehicles go; how's that any different that what they have now. As far as we know Sister vehicles might get some additional save if a faithful unit is embarked. Kinda like the GK's save VS psy-powers for vehicles.

Honestly all this panicking is a bit pre-mature. Given the army in question can't we all have a little more Faith?

**bhsman**

How does giving them a 6++ and having essentially the same dedicated transports as most Space Marine variants make them suck? Maybe we should wait and read the entirety of the rules before passing judgement.

**kenzosan**

bok has officially made me reconsider my stance. lol, i actually feel like id spend the excess of money for this army now. damnit! i think ill cap my eldar to a 1k army before i do that... but sisters are my favourite army. ugh! i hate you gw, you make me spend too much money and yet you torment me so with this hate on anything not marine. haha!

**cygnnus**

Karamazov is gone?!?? Nuts... Anyone interested in a bare metal (non-Finecast!) unassembled Karamazov? :-(

Valete,

JohnS

**kenzosan**

cygnnus wrote:Karamazov is gone?!?? Nuts... Anyone interested in a bare metal (non-Finecast!) unassembled Karamazov? :-(

Valete,

JohnS

i totally expected this. grey knights get inquisition and sisters got screwed, marine love ftw!

**Pouncey**

bhsman wrote:I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD STOP ARGUING OVER MINOR POINTS OF NERDERY, BUT AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS THAT SENTIMENT POLITELY.

Blood of Kittens wrote:Ok, with that said let us get on with why you are really here some SoB rumors.

As always let us start with the easy ones that pretty much everyone figured was going to happen.

Allies gone
Inquisition gone
Faith streamlined
USRs updated to 5th
Cheaper Unit costs
Inquisition elements gone

So let start with the big one and perhaps most controversial change to Sisters of Battle: Faith

I am amazed reading around the Net how quite few people had great guesses on how the new faith works. One caveat about the faith rules: I only have most of the story so let us hope someone else can pluck the rest from the aether. The only thing that really stays the same is only faith producing units can use faith. Gone is the over and under rules based on model count and gone is faith powers that everyone can use. It is replaced with every unit has its own unit specific act of faith to call upon.

So for instance Repentia Act of Faith allows them to always land an attack even if they are killed before they can swing. They are little bonuses like re-rolling to wound and hit, no USRs. Now this if fine and dandy if you just pop a faith point and bam! power goes off, but not so fast. Acts of Faith require that you roll 5+ to activate . This makes faith much more unreliable… maybe. In addition every unit that can get faith generates 1d6 faith points per turn. This also means that a new faith pool is generated each turn with no storing of past faith. As well faith can be activated in multiple phases of the game, so for instance you can re-roll to hit in your shooting phase or in your assault phase. What is not clear is a few things. Like how many dice can you throw at a single act of faith? How many times can you attempt to activated a power? If you get an act of faith to go off in one phase does it carry over to the next phase? If you fail an act of faith does that mean you cannot try again in another phase? I don’t have the answers, but what do you think?

Random tidbits

All Faith generating units get +6 invul save
All units that can get transports get Immolators or Rhinos
Assassins gone (Death Cult still in)
Wargear with the same names as GK wargear stay and get changed over. (e.g. Psybolt Ammo)
Karamazov gone
Priests in, pretty much same as before.
No change to the general Bolter, Melta, Flame concept of the Sisters

Specifics

Sisters have about 5 HQ choices including Special Characters

St. Celestine: Same price as a Grand Master you get 2+/+4 saves, WS/BS 7 Jump Pack, Fleet, Power Weapons always wounds on 4+ Has the power to come back like GK Thawn if killed.

Confessor: Takes the slot of the old Inquisitors. Cheap HQ (Warboss). Can create a henchman band using most of the henchman found in the GK codex. What makes the Confessor extra deadly is the ability for it to re-roll hits and wounds for her and the squad. This is the translation of the rumor matrix. So think for one second about her and the Death Cult together?

Repentia: Cheaper close to SM cost. FNP, Rage, Fearless, 6+ invul, no transports

Battle Sister Squad: Cheaper 10-20 unit size (no combat squads), but has access to Immolators which begs the question… Immolators either get increased transport capacity or Sisters break the rules concerning model count and buying transports. Multiple acts of faith.

Exocists: Pretty much same as before.

This is it for now gents and dames. If you have any questions let me know I can see if can get them answered sometime this week with another post.

I like, I like. ^^

Especially that part about acts of faith activating on a 5+ and the faith point pool working SOMEWHAT like the WHFB power dice. Can't count the number of times I've chosen not to use an Act of Faith that would really have made a difference, all because of the miniscule chance for it to actually activate due to small/large current unit sizes. Didn't want to waste a faith point at the time, since they were a limited commodity.

**AgeOfEgos**

kenzosan wrote:
cygnnus wrote:Karamazov is gone?!?? Nuts... Anyone interested in a bare metal (non-Finecast!) unassembled Karamazov? :-(

Valete,

JohnS

i totally expected this. grey knights get inquisition and sisters got screwed, marine love ftw!

Oh, it gets worse. You have to roll for each Sisters unit before the game begins. On a 6, they get access to veteran sister options. On a 1, they were forced to donate faith blood for armor painting (Sanguine tithe) to the Grey knights before the battle begins--and thus suffer a -1 to WS/BS.