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I have in my possession, one Hellbrute from the Dark Vengeance box set. The aim, as with the rest of the box, is to paint it up and sell it on ebay.
However, with the release of the Hellbrute kit, I can't see a "stock" DV one selling for much, however well I paint it.
So I want to modify it to produce a unique Hellbrute that people will want to buy over the kit.
I will also be scratch-building all the weapon options that are available, so don't worry about that.

I know what it is about the model that I like (not a lot), and what I don't like (quite a lot) and already have some ideas for changes.

However, I would like to know the general consensus of what the gaming community likes and dislikes about the DV Hellbrute and what changes you would like to see.

I would also like to know what you think is better / worse on the new(er) Helbrute model kit.

Thank you in advance.

Great model with no options. That sums it up best. That is why the single Hellbrute set is better. You can modify this one but, again it will still have a limit to what it could be.

I actually quite like the model. As Sammoth says, no options is a bummer.

Frankly, I think from a profit perspective, you do better by selling it unpainted. If you paint it, the quality has to be quite high to give it positive value (more value than it unpainted), and you see that nicely painted models take forever to move on eBay, unless they are bid (in which case they are greatly undervalued).

This is just my observation though; I'm happy to admit that this is totally not my area of expertise.

I've got my DV hellbrute sitting on the spure still. Don't quite know what to do with it my own self.

Things I like about it.
- Awesome looking power fist.
- Chaos Dreadnought in plastic. (The chaos range have needed this for years)

Things I don't like about it.
- Too fleshy. It's mutated beyond all reason. Which in turn lead to the stupid details like the spine, face and toe nails. This is useful for Deathguard and to a lesser extent Thousand Sons based armies. But for the majority of other chaos armies who just want a standard not too mutated dreadnought it's a pain in the bum. (The multipose plastic chaos dreadnought also suffers from this to a lesser extent.)



The good out weighs the bad in this situation, but the bad is far worse then the good points combined.

I give the DV hellbrute 2/10 Gold Aquillas.

Pros:

Uhh... the Powerfist is awesome.

Good pose.

Cons:

It suffers from an overload of bling like the other DV CSM do.

Too many fleshy bits. I can accept some but not the majority of the model.

I don't like exposed heads on Dreadnoughts. It seems counter intuitive.

Personally, I love just about everything about it, as with the rest of the DV Chaos. It's properly mutated as any self-respecting Veteran of the Long War should be, from a painting perspective there's a load of great textures and always something interested from any angle, and aesthetically it's great.

My only issue with it is the right arm (MM), which is too stubby compared to the extended power fist and can unbalance the model (aesthetically, not physically). If you were to extend that into a Lascannon/Autocannon or even just extend the arm itself, you'd have a completely awesome mini.

I threw mine away after a spray paint issue, just couldn't be bothered to strip it as I really don't like the sculpt. Originally I thought it looked great, as did the chaos marines, but now I think they're over designed and don't fit in with the look of the rest of my army at all. Marines are still on sprue, and Helbrute is in the bin. Last thing I don't like about it - it's a chaos dreadnought, not a Helbrute.

I love mine, honestly. I'd say conversion-wise it's great, because you could stick any gun in by just clipping the melta and replacing it with whatever you prefer. Personally mine is remodeled with a brutal looking harpoon gun, and I run it as 2X power fist 2X flamer for maximum anti-infantry shock troopage.

As per Snrub's comments:

-The pose is great, but most single pose models are a dead end for someone like me who likes converting and individuality. If you can make something dynamic out of this, fair play.

-I know chaos machines are part organic from the warp, but I think GW are going way OTT with models like this. Mutations and fleshy bits should be subtle, not taking up half the model -a bit of skin-like substance on some of the armour plates, or pustules or whatever, but I wouldn't even recognise this as a dreadnought. The fleshy bit on the chest and the spine are silly. It's just a bit too much of a mish-mash of armour and flesh, to the point that it looks like neither beast or machine. Fine for a mutation-heavy Khornate force, or if you added some pustules, etc, it'd look well in a Nurgle force, but this is going to stick out like a sore thumb in Iron Warriors or Thousand Sons...

Thank you for the replies. Keep them coming.

Sammoth wrote:Great model with no options. That sums it up best. That is why the single Hellbrute set is better. You can modify this one but, again it will still have a limit to what it could be.

I plan to build all the missing weapon options and I may even buy some magnets as people seem to like that form of swap-ability (as opposed to pegs). So I have that covered.

Talys wrote:I actually quite like the model. As Sammoth says, no options is a bummer.

Frankly, I think from a profit perspective, you do better by selling it unpainted. If you paint it, the quality has to be quite high to give it positive value (more value than it unpainted), and you see that nicely painted models take forever to move on eBay, unless they are bid (in which case they are greatly undervalued).

This is just my observation though; I'm happy to admit that this is totally not my area of expertise.

You can see the level of quality I will be working on in my commission gallery (for painting) or my other galleries (for modelling).

All the other DV models (except Kranon who is still available, so I hear you on things taking a long time on ebay) have sold for substantial profits above NIB prices.

You both seem to be on my wavelength, Snrub and TheCustomLine. That's pretty much what I think about it.
I plan to replace some of the fleshy parts with more mechanical/armoured parts and make it more asymmetric and subtle in it's mutations.

The pose won't change dramatically, as it would be too much work to get a worthwhile wage out of it.
Yeah, I've thought about changes to the head area also.

Paradigm wrote:Personally, I love just about everything about it, as with the rest of the DV Chaos. It's properly mutated as any self-respecting Veteran of the Long War should be, from a painting perspective there's a load of great textures and always something interested from any angle, and aesthetically it's great.

Yeah, it does seem to split the community, some people really do seem to like the model and others not so much. Interesting.

My only issue with it is the right arm (MM), which is too stubby compared to the extended power fist and can unbalance the model (aesthetically, not physically). If you were to extend that into a Lascannon/Autocannon or even just extend the arm itself, you'd have a completely awesome mini.

As that arm/weapon will be chopped off for the swappable options, I will make sure to give the MM an extension for that reason. Thanks.

tyrannosaurus wrote:I threw mine away after a spray paint issue, just couldn't be bothered to strip it as I really don't like the sculpt. Originally I thought it looked great, as did the chaos marines, but now I think they're over designed and don't fit in with the look of the rest of my army at all. Marines are still on sprue, and Helbrute is in the bin. Last thing I don't like about it - it's a chaos dreadnought, not a Helbrute.

Always sad to hear of potential raw material going in the bin. Hopefully, if the changes I make can please someone like you (as well as those that already like it) then I'm on to a winner.

at GW and their silly naming conventions.

the_scotsman wrote:I love mine, honestly. I'd say conversion-wise it's great, because you could stick any gun in by just clipping the melta and replacing it with whatever you prefer. Personally mine is remodeled with a brutal looking harpoon gun, and I run it as 2X power fist 2X flamer for maximum anti-infantry shock troopage.

I think I've seen that one about the internet.
I will be taking some artistic licence with the additions but I aim to keep things recognisable for game use by (or against) even the strictest of gamers.

thegreatchimp wrote:As per Snrub's comments:

-The pose is great, but most single pose models are a dead end for someone like me who likes converting and individuality. If you can make something dynamic out of this, fair play.

-I know chaos machines are part organic from the warp, but I think GW are going way OTT with models like this. Mutations and fleshy bits should be subtle, not taking up half the model -a bit of skin-like substance on some of the armour plates, or pustules or whatever, but I wouldn't even recognise this as a dreadnought. The fleshy bit on the chest and the spine are silly. It's just a bit too much of a mish-mash of armour and flesh, to the point that it looks like neither beast or machine. Fine for a mutation-heavy Khornate force, or if you added some pustules, etc, it'd look well in a Nurgle force, but this is going to stick out like a sore thumb in Iron Warriors or Thousand Sons...

Yeah, I agree about single pose models and converting (I rarely leave a model in it's "stock" state).
As I said above, I plan to tone down the fleshy parts and give it back some of the mechanical nature a dreadnought deserves.

Thanks again. Keep the thoughts coming and be as specific or general as you like. Both for what is good as well as bad about the model.

+ like the model
+ cheap to get
- hard to customize

thegreatchimp wrote:but this is going to stick out like a sore thumb in Iron Warriors

I disagree there. I think it would work in an Iron Warriors army. Iron Warriors have the whole Machine/Daemon/Marine symbiosis thing going for them.
Maybe get rid of the horns and armpit tentacles. But aside from that I think it'd work.

Dr H wrote:I plan to replace some of the fleshy parts with more mechanical/armoured parts and make it more asymmetric and subtle in it's mutations.

How do you plan on doing that? Because I'd be interested to see that.

 Snrub wrote:

Dr H wrote:I plan to replace some of the fleshy parts with more mechanical/armoured parts and make it more asymmetric and subtle in it's mutations.

How do you plan on doing that? Because I'd be interested to see that.

I'm just collecting ideas at the mo', so don't know the how's and what's yet, but it will likely involve sprue (as I use it a lot) and plasticard / milliput where required.

Once I've finished the Mantis Warrior for Gits' competition and painted a Wych, this will be the next project I do, and will be well documented in my Making money with modelling thread.

The little wedge under the left foot can make basing difficult as it may not really match some types of terrain like deck plate.

I hate that model for endless reasons. The only take on the Hellbrute that I've ever felt positive about is the two GuitaRasmus did. Then again he could probably make a rubber duck look awesome.

Rickfactor wrote:The little wedge under the left foot can make basing difficult as it may not really match some types of terrain like deck plate.

Yeah. As I really dislike the feet that the model has, they are definitely being changed. This may end up with the rock being removed along with them (if I remove the feet) or I will find a way to alter it or make a base to match it. Ta.

Casey's Law wrote:I hate that model for endless reasons. The only take on the Hellbrute that I've ever felt positive about is the two GuitaRasmus did. Then again he could probably make a rubber duck look awesome.

Yeah, that is a significant improvement and he does do good work.
I'll keep that in mind for when I look at mine.

Anyone else?

I have now clipped the pieces from their sprue and am considering my options.

I'm still interested to hear what people like and dislike about the Helbrute.

Also, what do people think is better / worse on the new Helbrute kit?

Thanks.

Chopping them up to use the bitz on other Chaos stuff.

Make him dance. Lol. Seriously though, it isnt a terrible model, it just needs tweaking a little, I have three dreads in my iron warriors army. One DV helbrute(modified), the stand alone helbrute kit and a converted venerable dread (m'kar). I don't have any issues with them fitting in with the rest of my army, although I suppose thats just down to personal preference.

Thanks for the input.
Feindus, if this model was my own, that is likely what I would be doing.
This is part owned by a friend of mine (who's ebay shop it will be sold through), so I can't just chop it up for bits. See it as an open-ended commission job.

I can see you've made changes to the feet and face areas in particular, Tomcat. Good call.
Yes, it is a very personal thing as to what is liked and disliked about this model (and any model), but there are some trends I'm seeing.

These are what I have collected from here and elsewhere, with thoughts about what could be changed:
Dislikes:
The large quantity of fleshy parts / lack of mechanical or armoured parts,
- Add more armour / mechanical parts. This would be most effective around the back and on the legs.

The feet in particular,
- which just need replacing. Thankfully one of them comes separate so just need to chop one off.

The open face on an armoured unit,
- The central part of the body could be modified to be more of an armoured sarcophagus (also helps with the flesh/metal balance).

The armpit tentacles,
- Chop chop chop.

The many horns,
- If that area is being armoured up these will be going anyway. Also, this area comes as a separate part and can be left off. Some of the horns may find their way back on elsewhere.

Too much bling,
- As with many of the recent GW releases, but I won't go into this here. Most would be very tricky to remove and then may need something added to replace it. A lot of work, for little return. Some people like these details also.

A lack of options,
- I'll be scratch-building / kit-bashing all the weapon options and making them swappable.

How short the gun arm is,
- That arm can be made to be more of an arm and less of a shoulder-mounted gun.

Likes:
The overall look of the model, which is also cited as a dislike by many
- Hopefully, I can keep the looks that people like, and improve what many don't like. It will still be recognisable as a Helbrute/chaos dreadnought.

That it's a scary / intimidating model,
- As this is the point of the model, I hope to keep this feeling.

The level of detail from any angle (many of which are cited as dislikes above),
- Aim to maintain interest with a good level of detail. Not a problem if you've seen some of the other things I've built.

The powerfist (which I haven't seen a single complaint about)...
- Keep it, and I have to make a "matching" fist for the other arm. At least I have something to compare to.

Thank you for your thoughts, keep them coming, I'm still planning at the moment.

For those who don't like the Helbrutes pose, BEHOLD!

Nice pose, Matthew.
It looks like a lot of work to fix the hips/waist for something like that though.

I've posted my thoughts over in my thread and will start work over there soon-ish.

Yeah, nice work Matt. Looks like a proper lumbering monstrosity now. Almost gorilla like.

tomcat31 wrote:
Make him dance. Lol.

I nearly choked on my food I laughed so hard when I saw that pic, thanks man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ DR H I don't know if its been said already, but just looking at the original pics again, and one area that's especially bad is the armour on the back of the legs, particualrely the calves. The intended effect is the metal has adopted a more organic shape as its becoming flesh-like. An improvement to this would be to file it so its got sharper edges, this would make it more distinct from the actual fleshy bits.

 thegreatchimp wrote:
@ DR H I don't know if its been said already, but just looking at the original pics again, and one area that's especially bad is the armour on the back of the legs, particualrely the calves. The intended effect is the metal has adopted a more organic shape as its becoming flesh-like. An improvement to this would be to file it so its got sharper edges, this would make it more distinct from the actual fleshy bits.

Thanks. That's a good idea, I'll keep it in mind.

I have started work on the model and this is what it looks like so far.


Past and further progress can be found in my blog.

Razor Saw 1- Hellbrute 0
Good stuff. I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out

Since I play iron warriors I can deal with the fleshy look as I super mutated plastic termies with a ton of gs & weapons to make custom oblits so it can work with them. However, I hated the face. I replaced that with a chaos warrior head with the horns removed. I also liked the fact that it was pretty cheap given everything else in the set. But the MM with vehicles so easily killed just wasn't worth it since chaos can't "legally" take dreadnought drop pods.

And no, I will never call it a helbrute. It's a dreadnought just like they're imperial guard not astra militarum & stormtroopers not scions (scions are dorky little cars driven by break dancing hamsters)

Way too squishy. Iron warriors would not use that. They need a Chaos dread model and not a Helbrute. (Like Forge World.)
And I can't stand the tentecles coming out of its armpit like that. Pointless idea.

I just assume it's a dread infected with the obliterator techno virus tbh.

 Red_Starrise wrote:
I just assume it's a dread infected with the obliterator techno virus tbh.

That's what I'm thinking. I'm just taking it back a notch to an earlier developmental stage.

I'm looking at Tetsuo (from the anime/manga "Akira") for inspiration. Specifically at the point where he has wires/cables coming from his arm and burrowing into his surroundings, before he turns into a giant blob.

Thanks for the input.