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This has been a dark day for my wallet - first the DZC plastics are announced and then this!

I know Scale is an issue for some gamers, but given the massive disparities in size in a universe ranging from tiny fighters up to 5-10 mile long spaceships (depending on what the current canon is ref size of the SSD), you have to ask at what level could you get an accurately scale Star Wars game going outside of the PC without needing a cricket pitch to play it on?

All miniature gaming is about a suspension of disbelief - to me this game is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

GW take note - this week I've pledged to Mantic for KS, will buy into DZC with at least 2-3 boxes and am mentally budgetting for this too - this is where your vanishing sales are going - onto high quality, excellent products delivered with enough notice to get me very excited indeed.

Being a visual learner, this helped me quite a bit. If FFG takes the capital ship thing seriously there could be some huge ships in the pipeline. Check the upper left corner at the highest magnification you can find the ship in the starter set.

http://dirkloechel.deviantart.com/art/Size-Comparison-Science-Fiction-Spaceships-398790051

jim30 wrote:
This has been a dark day for my wallet - first the DZC plastics are announced and then this!

Thanks for the heads up I hadn't seen that. It's a great time to be a tabletop gamer it seems!

Frankly, I would rather have a Capitol ship game where things are slightly out of scale when dealing with 4-inch long ships, than the effort it takes to shoehorn a Corvette into a game of X-wing, even after making it at a smaller scale than the fighters.

It is impossible to have a capitol ship game in Star Wars without scale issues. Otherwise, something like a Rebel Transport has to be as large as one of the individual X-wings on a squadron base (with a Corvette barely the size of an A-wing from X-Wing, and there is not as much fun involved with pinhead-sized ships.

My only concern is the game looks a lot more fiddly with tabs and click bits, but I'm very excited for this.

As strange as it sounds coming from someone who has painted likely somewhere between 500-1000 miniatures but the lack of prepainting on the squadrons kind of messes it up for me. Also, when you get to the large capital ship battles, I don't feel that it is as fair of a fight between Rebels and Imperials. After my initial rush of excitement, I get the feeling that I'm talking myself out of getting into this frankly.

So this isn't quite the place to ask this, but what rival products even inhabit this play-space right now?

I know DZC has fleet-scale "something" coming next year... but beyond that, Battlefleet Gothic is beloved, but long gone. I know Firestorm Armada exists... is that any good?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So this isn't quite the place to ask this, but what rival products even inhabit this play-space right now?

I know DZC has fleet-scale "something" coming next year... but beyond that, Battlefleet Gothic is beloved, but long gone. I know Firestorm Armada exists... is that any good?

There is firestorm armada. It's a fun fast paced game. Can be static at times but I recommend it for new comers or just to paint the models.

There is also Cold Navy which does not have any official models IIRC and there is also Full Thrust. Both of which I recommend.

Then there is a Naval Thunder spin-off for space games. The rules were for WWI and WWII navies which are great but never played the space ship game.

DZC doesn't just have something coming- they have something designed by Andy Chambers coming. He made BFG, so it is totally unknown how awesome it will be, but the limit is very, very high.

This game will most likely play faster and cleaner and be perpetually sold out, because FFG has timed its release with Episode 7, which will use many of these vessels. Not since Decipher have I ever seen a company use the Star Wars license so well.

 warboss wrote:
I don't feel that it is as fair of a fight between Rebels and Imperials.

It wasn't really a fair fight in the films; the Rebellion was woefully outgunned. They had spunk and sass though. And plot armor.

Yeah, but at least in the EU in series like Rogue Squadron, you have battles where a combination of smaller capitol ships and dedicated attacks by fighter squadrons took out Imperial Cap ships.

Probably the only problem with Armada I have is the price point, because I think they really needed to have it be in the 50-75 dollar range at least. Look what you get for things like Dropzone Commander and Infinity for the around same price as Armada.

Even other fleet games like Leviathans gave you (and they are very sizeable ships) a battleship, cruiser and two destroyers (or maybe the other way around for cruisers/destroyers) per side for that price.

So I am really on the fence about Armada, but leaning towards it just for how accessible the Star wars franchise is for the people I would be playing it with versus other competitors. I mean, Battlefleet Gothic takes some pretty sizable explanation of the setting to the uninitiated, where Star Wars sells itself.

Hands up those people who want to play the Rebels in this?

Anyone?

Come on, you get all of those really interesting MC80s and the other cruisers that look like spacegoing blobs!

Okay, now who wants to blow stuff up with Star Destroyers?

 Chillreaper wrote:
Hands up those people who want to play the Rebels in this?

Anyone?

Yo.

I actually like Mon Cal ships.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So this isn't quite the place to ask this, but what rival products even inhabit this play-space right now?

I know DZC has fleet-scale "something" coming next year... but beyond that, Battlefleet Gothic is beloved, but long gone. I know Firestorm Armada exists... is that any good?

There are many capital ship "naval" games including WW1, WW2, modern and IIIIIIN SPAAAAAACE games. The Star Ranger page is the best source of info.

http://www.star-ranger.com/Home.htm

The key selling points of this game are (1) it is Star Wars, (2) the game mechanisms using some clever devices that will make it accessible and direct to play, rather than the typical tables, hex maps and so on.

I hadn't noticed the $100 price tag as it is hidden in the product page and not the announcement. That is a bit above my comfort zone for this especially with the fighters being unpainted. I had hoped for it to come in around $70-80 but no such luck. That may be the final nail in the coffin for me personally as I'd rather spend that same amount on a half dozen X-wing fighters.

 warboss wrote:
I hadn't noticed the $100 price tag as it is hidden in the product page and not the announcement. That is a bit above my comfort zone for this especially with the fighters being unpainted. I had hoped for it to come in around $70-80 but no such luck. That may be the final nail in the coffin for me personally as I'd rather spend that same amount on a half dozen X-wing fighters.

You can probably buy it online at a discount from the retailer of your choice. Besides, there appears to be quite a lot in the box.

If the X-Wing starter is anything to go by, this starter will also be good value on its own.

Wow.

Completely understand the scale issues people have mentioned, but feel the fun involved in moving a star destroyer around on the board is more a + than a -. I don't think you are likely to get a better opportunity to do this, frankly.

Also, already thinking of some way to have this game set up on one board, and then a 'zoomed in' version when squadrons of X-Wing and TIE fighters (or other escorts) encounter each other on the other (using the current X-Wing set & rules).

 Kilkrazy wrote:

The key selling points of this game are (1) it is Star Wars, (2) the game mechanisms using some clever devices that will make it accessible and direct to play, rather than the typical tables, hex maps and so on.

It seems like those fiddly pieces on the base of the ships are designed to eliminate most of the record keeping associated with the game. That is a nice bit of game design to shift it away from off-putting record keeping associated with other game systems.

 Pacific wrote:
Wow.

Completely understand the scale issues people have mentioned, but feel the fun involved in moving a star destroyer around on the board is more a + than a -. I don't think you are likely to get a better opportunity to do this, frankly.

Also, already thinking of some way to have this game set up on one board, and then a 'zoomed in' version when squadrons of X-Wing and TIE fighters (or other escorts) encounter each other on the other (using the current X-Wing set & rules).

I'm sure that it won't be long before linked campaigns using the two systems are available, and possibly not too long until a third, ground combat system is released to complete the set.,

DrRansom wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

The key selling points of this game are (1) it is Star Wars, (2) the game mechanisms using some clever devices that will make it accessible and direct to play, rather than the typical tables, hex maps and so on.

It seems like those fiddly pieces on the base of the ships are designed to eliminate most of the record keeping associated with the game. That is a nice bit of game design to shift it away from off-putting record keeping associated with other game systems.

It also means there seem to be a lot less tokens to keep track of than in X Wing and other FFG games, which is dope.

Yeah, I do like the in-built wound/activated tracking on the squadron bases, and the shields-on-all facings dials. Kind of an interesting take on the maneuver dials, too, where they all stack up.

To be honest, on the scale thing.

I was very much preaching, "ah but it's just a baby star destroyer" earlier. - But considering the victory is actually 'supposed' to be much larger than I remembered, I am kinda going.... "Uhhh" now.

I mean, lets face it, a Corvettes supposed to be 1/6th the size of the Victory, right?

That, quite conveniently... Puts it at roughly the size of an... X-Wing Miniatures Games... X-Wing. - And their paintjobs are awesome.

It'd seem to me, to be far more sensible and awe inspiring, if they rebalanced the corvettes stats a bit and instead gave you 2 of them in the starter set along with the Nebulon B. I mean, the darn thing does only have 6 guns on it...

Plus, that does have the awesome factor of:

"You see that big huge gigantic space ship in X-Wing? That's now the size of a fighter in Armada."

To be fair, Corvettes might lack in the energy weapons department but they were (canonwise) supposed to be highly customizable. I think I remember some novel that brought up the idea of a Corvette which replaced its escape pods with torpedo launchers...

Which would be a hilarious thing to see for this game.

I want to get a Star Destroyer and model a teeny Millennium Falcon on the back of it.

I like the idea of multiple corvettes as well to go along with the frigate because i honestly still cant see how the rebels can hold up in this box set! I mean we all do remember the opening scene from Star Wars right? The corvettes weapons where just pinging off that Star Destroyer like marker lights for goodness sake! How are those supposed to handle one (all be it a slighter lower class one) in a straight up fight? Unless there is a rule allowing waves of extra x wings to enter the board every other turn or so. That said will still probably pick it up

John D Law wrote:
I like the idea of multiple corvettes as well to go along with the frigate because i honestly still cant see how the rebels can hold up in this box set! I mean we all do remember the opening scene from Star Wars right? The corvettes weapons where just pinging off that Star Destroyer like marker lights for goodness sake! How are those supposed to handle one (all be it a slighter lower class one) in a straight up fight? Unless there is a rule allowing waves of extra x wings to enter the board every other turn or so. That said will still probably pick it up

I have a feeling that the dynamic of X-Wing is going to be swapped in this one with Rebels being the horde/swarm faction and Empire being the elite forces.

 Platuan4th wrote:

John D Law wrote:
I like the idea of multiple corvettes as well to go along with the frigate because i honestly still cant see how the rebels can hold up in this box set! I mean we all do remember the opening scene from Star Wars right? The corvettes weapons where just pinging off that Star Destroyer like marker lights for goodness sake! How are those supposed to handle one (all be it a slighter lower class one) in a straight up fight? Unless there is a rule allowing waves of extra x wings to enter the board every other turn or so. That said will still probably pick it up

I have a feeling that the dynamic of X-Wing is going to be swapped in this one with Rebels being the horde/swarm faction and Rebels being the elite forces.

To extend the comparison, looking at their example info, not only will the Rebel ships be more maneuverable and speedy in general, ala TIE fighters, but also able to react faster. I like the concept of the Star Destroyer having to set up its chain of orders much longer in advance, owing the vast size, amount of crew, etc, so not only is it slower and less maneuverable, but requires a lot more advanced planning, which the rebels could exploit, being able to change their plans and approach much more often.

I think a big thing here is room for expansion. X-Wing has already more or less tapped the number of fighters in the Starwars universe. There's only a handful of oddball, one-off and uncommon or not well known ships for them to do, I mean, honestly, are they going to do an I-9 Howlrunner and Preybird? Doubtful. With capital ships though, there's a ton of stuff to work with, particular with the "____ Aces" approach they used in X-Wing to introduce variants using the same model, and some of the Clone Wars era ships wouldn't be completely out of place either. Perfect time to introduce it with X-Wing running out of materiel to work with, at least until Abrams adds his own stuff to the setting.

Though, if I'm being honest with myself, all I really want is the ability to use Grand Admiral Pellaeon in game-form, and an excuse to say, whenever I beat my Rebel Scum fiance, "IT'S A TRAP!"

John D Law wrote:
I like the idea of multiple corvettes as well to go along with the frigate because i honestly still cant see how the rebels can hold up in this box set! I mean we all do remember the opening scene from Star Wars right? The corvettes weapons where just pinging off that Star Destroyer like marker lights for goodness sake! How are those supposed to handle one (all be it a slighter lower class one) in a straight up fight? Unless there is a rule allowing waves of extra x wings to enter the board every other turn or so. That said will still probably pick it up

4 X-Wing squadrons in the box vs 6 TIE squadrons will help balance things, as X-wings have torpedoes to plink away at the VSD as well.

 Platuan4th wrote:

John D Law wrote:
I like the idea of multiple corvettes as well to go along with the frigate because i honestly still cant see how the rebels can hold up in this box set! I mean we all do remember the opening scene from Star Wars right? The corvettes weapons where just pinging off that Star Destroyer like marker lights for goodness sake! How are those supposed to handle one (all be it a slighter lower class one) in a straight up fight? Unless there is a rule allowing waves of extra x wings to enter the board every other turn or so. That said will still probably pick it up

I have a feeling that the dynamic of X-Wing is going to be swapped in this one with Rebels being the horde/swarm faction and Rebels being the elite forces.

Rebels are what? You said them twice. Do you mean the Imperials as the Elite forces?

FFG already owns me so hard through Netrunner and other games. Now, I'm going to have to buy into Armada!

I honestly don't have an issue with dynamic scale, since if the CR90 was to scale, it'd be too small to even see. By having a relative scale, we can have all the ships at relational scale to each other, so the CR90 is smaller than a Neb-B, smaller than a VSD... but without the headaches true scale involves.

I'd also not read too much into the points cost of the CR90 vs a VSD. For all we know, the VSD's upgrade options will be far superior, and far more expensive.

Plus, it's only a VSD. Perhaps the ISD2 is twice as powerful or something, since it looks like this game's stat ranges will be much wider potentially than what X-wing's engine allowed.

----

Also, I wouldn't be so sure of Elite Imps vs Swarm Rebels. Imps have crappy ships too (Dreadnaught, Lancer, Carrack), while Rebels have ships more powerful than ISDs (some Mon Cal models).