39917
Post by: DAWARBOSS
Well, I know everybody knows about the discontinuation of metal figs. But I just wanted to confirm it. At my FLGS all the GW metal kits are almost gone. This is because every time you spend 1000$ HKD (hong kong dollars, around the price two squads of marines) you get a free GW metal kit! so, sorry if this is in the wrong spot or something, but im pretty sure this means no more metal miniatures. well at least at my FLGS
Sorry, DAWARBOSS, your thread has been commandeered. Well, just made into the thread for this news. So people discussion of the Finecast hubub should go here for the time being. Thanks!
Manchu
Here's the announcement of the upcoming announcement from GW:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16400050a
And read further below in the thread for more info regarding the pricing and initial range of models.
14070
Post by: SagesStone
Or that they are in fact up for repackaging instead of the replacement to resin rumor.
10127
Post by: Happygrunt
Which FLGS is this?
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Yeah, I'm not buying into this resin thing as easily as everyone else is, there would be too much work involved to make that change if you ask me. I really doubt you can keep using the same molds and just pour resin into them instead of metal, and I don't see them making new molds for metals that just came out within the past 6 months or less.
Unless I'm wrong and you can in fact do just that.
39917
Post by: DAWARBOSS
what is repacking? my FLGS just moved, and me and my brother just got a warboss, a librarian and sergant chronus for free, and every week less and less metal figures are there. at first they went slowly, but know they are almost gone!
722
Post by: Kanluwen
"Repackaging".
Every so often, GW alters up product codes and the like for models. This is rumored to be one of these situations.
39917
Post by: DAWARBOSS
Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, I'm not buying into this resin thing as easily as everyone else is, there would be too much work involved to make that change if you ask me. I really doubt you can keep using the same molds and just pour resin into them instead of metal, and I don't see them making new molds for metals that just came out within the past 6 months or less.
Unless I'm wrong and you can in fact do just that.
Maybe, but the only answer I can think of is the metal to resin rumor. Also, maybe their just making shelf space. The shop is manly taken up by tables.
14070
Post by: SagesStone
Apparently a lot of the metals are going through a repackaging at the moment (there's some rumor floating about they're going to swap to resin as well), the reason they're giving the metals at your one has probably more to do with their move. It's probably more likely they're changing the packaging of the blisters to have a new art style on the cardboard or maybe just throw them in those clamshell type packaging other companies have. Just have to wait until it's all done to see what happens, but I highly doubt the resin switchover. Edit: going with Kanluwen's post, it's even more likely. 
39917
Post by: DAWARBOSS
n0t_u wrote:Apparently a lot of the metals are going through a repackaging at the moment (there's some rumor floating about they're going to swap to resin as well), the reason they're giving the metals at your one has probably more to do with their move.
It's probably more likely they're changing the packaging of the blisters to have a new art style on the cardboard or maybe just throw them in those clamshell type packaging other companies have. Just have to wait until it's all done to see what happens, but I highly doubt the resin switchover.
Yeah I guess, they do have really old models up their, like a pack of ten acro-flagellants and the most faded boxes.
19636
Post by: Alkasyn
A similar thing is happening here : The guys have a sale for many metal blisters, not only GW ones - I guess that with the blisters being removed from the stores, they want to make more space for other things. I got a 25% discount on Harlequin blisters simply because the guy wanted to get rid of them and he still had a pile.
5394
Post by: reds8n
I would also point out that when the GW Uk stores did their last stock check just the other week they were not required to count the blister packs in the stores.
.. as if, for example, they were all about to be written off as and stock/similar and sent back.
I wouldn't be too surprised if we start to see the end of the blister pack as they're replaced with boxes -- easier to transport, harder to steal, color artwork on the front for a more eye catching display etc etc -- as well.
18410
Post by: filbert
reds8n wrote: I would also point out that when the GW Uk stores did their last stock check just the other week they were not required to count the blister packs in the stores.
.. as if, for example, they were all about to be written off as and stock/similar and sent back.
I wouldn't be too surprised if we start to see the end of the blister pack as they're replaced with boxes -- easier to transport, harder to steal, color artwork on the front for a more eye catching display etc etc -- as well.
And of course, they can whack a price increase on to account for the spangly new boxes/artwork...
5394
Post by: reds8n
Well, eventually. I'd reckon more it'll be spun t'other way and we'll get something along the lines of them bravely holding the line on their prices, against a backdrop of a world gone mad. Rising tin prices, blood on the streets, cats mating with dogs, lambs laying down with lions etc etc etc
38150
Post by: Dark Apostle 666
Is this happpening all over or just at "selected stores"?
Cos' if its happening everywhere then I need to get down to my FLGS, they've got tons of metal blister packs!
5394
Post by: reds8n
Who knows ?
I would point out before you zoom down town that GW stores are unlikely to do this as they can claim the tax back -- like when they tear the covers off of the novels before sending them back.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Yeah, if they put them in pretty new packages then I can see them getting a more than modest increase, which is bs since their blisters are already insanely priced. The DE archon, succubus etc. look awesome, but I still cringe blowing $15 on them. For one model. And those are the cheaper ones.
5394
Post by: reds8n
Citadel Finecast FTW then eh ?
28716
Post by: Harry
reds8n wrote: Citadel Finecast FTW then eh ?
If you like that sort of thing. 
5394
Post by: reds8n
Ah, cheer up fella. *hugs*
What's that expression about interesting times ...?
7375
Post by: BrookM
If referring to "May you live in interesting times", it's a curse. Also, I'm still thinking hard about that word you had bolded out a few posts back.
29190
Post by: CURNOW
Seems like a,hell of a lot of stock to write off just for a,packaging change ? If the price were changing then wouldn't you just use a over sticker like they have before ?
If the art was changing then they would just phase it through as its restocked ..as they have before ! Same if the blister was changing shape .
The cost of changing all blisters to boxs is a stupid outlay as well as not only are blisters cheaper to produce but they are cheaper to transport than boxs and you can see what's in them . GWs losses due to customer theft like most retail outlets would only make up 10 to 20 % of all there losses .
The only time anything like this has happend is when they changed from lead to white metel in the mid 90s .
The reason why the independent stores are giving them away is because they have them on sale or return and have been credited by GW for them ....
5394
Post by: reds8n
The zoom ?!
No clue there I'm afraid, sorry.
But I'm serious about the stock take and the like being a serious indication of THINGS .
And it's more than just a repackage ; models like Ghaz and some of the recent DE models, which are in boxes are unavailable and have been for a while.
... much to the vexation of a fair few of their staff one could add, but we're all well acquainted with the.... the.....
hhmm.....
..err....
the..
... odd ways that GW go about things at times.
http://www.medius-associates.com/public_downloads/articles/Negotiating_with_the_British.pdf
7375
Post by: BrookM
Yes, we do prefer, sometimes brutal, directness over hinting. 
518
Post by: Kid_Kyoto
DAWARBOSS wrote:Well, I know everybody knows about the discontinuation of metal figs. But I just wanted to confirm it. At my FLGS all the GW metal kits are almost gone. This is because every time you spend 1000$ HKD (hong kong dollars, around the price two squads of marines) you get a free GW metal kit! so, sorry if this is in the wrong spot or something, but im pretty sure this means no more metal miniatures. well at least at my FLGS
HK dollars?
Is that Fun Altiers?
36934
Post by: logg_frogg
Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, if they put them in pretty new packages then I can see them getting a more than modest increase, which is bs since their blisters are already insanely priced. The DE archon, succubus etc. look awesome, but I still cringe blowing $15 on them. For one model. And those are the cheaper ones.
Ha! $15... you shoudl check the price on Obliterators or Tyrant Guard lol!
Dropping the blister woud make a lot of sense. Even over the past year I know my FLGS has had to return/have new blisters supplied for free because the front of the blisters have come off during shipping.
Even when they ship blisters now they place them front to front in an additional box. Dropping the blister in favor of different packaging woudl make shipping easier and reduce materials cost if done properly!
Blisters are nice to look at but the days of going to the FLGS to happily flip through 900 different blisters are long gone ( ) It has been a trend for several years now.
42318
Post by: elchristoff
Wouldn't the best place to search is the GW website? as soon as the products become unavailable there, then the re-launch / re-package / replacement would be imminent?
7375
Post by: BrookM
Maybe GW is changing formats, going for the easier to open and close clamshells that other companies use.
18282
Post by: Grimstonefire
Supposedly today there will be an announcement.
5394
Post by: reds8n
http://www.giftsforgeeks.org.uk/blog/
Starting from the 28th of May 120 products that were Games Workshop direct only items will be coming back on the shelves as resin or resin Hybrids. This new range “Citadel Fine Cast” range will be limited in number for the first few months, so we will be taking advance orders for them.
Here are the new recast products at the full RRP;
41-60 COMMANDER DANTE £10.50
53-60 LOGAN GRIMNAR £14.50
55-61 THE EMPERORS CHAMPION £9.50
48-63 SPACE MARINE CHAPLAIN WITH JUMP PACK £10.50
44-60 DARK ANGELS COMPANY MASTER £10.50
48-61 SM LIBRARIAN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR £14.50
53-61 NJAL STORMCALLER £14.50
41-61 ASTORATH THE GRIM £12.50
43-60 ABADDON THE DESPOILER £14.50
43-61 HURON BLACKHEART £10.50
50-61 ORK WARBOSS WITH ATTACK SQUIG £14.50
50-63 ORK BIG MEK £14.50
50-65 ORK PAINBOY WITH GROT ORDERLY £10.50
46-61 ELDAR AUTARCH WITH POWER WEAPON £10.50
46-62 THE AVATAR OF KHAINE £22.50
46-63 HARLEQUIN DEATH JESTER £10.50
46-64 HARLEQUIN SHADOWSEER £10.50
47-61 COMMISSAR YARRICK £10.50
47-63 IMPERIAL GUARD LORD COMMISSAR £9.50
51-61 TYRANID ZOANTHROPE £15.50
51-63 TYRANID TYRANT GUARD £15.50
51-64 TYRANID HIVE GUARD £15.50
51-65 TYRANID BROODLORD £15.50
57-61 BROTHER CAPTAIN STERN £14.50
57-60 LORD KALDOR DRAIGO £14.50
57-62 CASTELLAN CROWE £10.50
57-63 INQUISITOR COTEAZ £10.50
45-60 DARK ELDAR ARCHON £9.50
45-64 LELITH HESPERAX £10.50
45-63 URIEN RAKARTH £10.50
45-61 DARK ELDAR SUCCUBUS £9.50
56-60 TAU ETHEREAL WITH HONOUR BLADE £9.50
83-62 CHAOS EXALTED HERO £9.50
83-63 CHAOS KHORNE EXALTED HERO £10.50
86-60 EMPIRE CAPTAIN WITH HAMMER & PISTOL £9.50
92-60 WOOD ELF HIGHBORN WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
84-60 DWARF LORD WITH HAMMER & SHIELD £9.50
84-61 DWARF RUNELORD WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
90-60 SKAVEN WARLORD £9.50
90-61 QUEEK HEADTAKER £10.50
90-62 DEATHMASTER SNIKCH £10.50
91-61 VAMPIRE LORD £9.50
89-60 GRIMGOR IRONHIDE £10.50
89-62 BLACK ORC BIG BOSS £10.50
87-60 CARADRYAN £10.50
85-61 DARK ELF ASSASSIN WITH TWO HAND WEAPONS £9.50
81-60 MALAGOR THE DARK OMEN £12.50
10-61 URUK-HAI WITH CROSSBOWS £14.00
10-62 URUK-HAI BERSERKERS £14.00
08-61 GOTHMOG (PELENNOR) £20.50
05-60 ELROND AND GIL-GALAD £15.00
10-60 SARUMAN AND GRIMA £15.00
02-60 GANDALF THE WHITE £20.50
04-60 ARAGORN (THE BLACK GATE) £20.50
04-62 THEODEN (HELM’S DEEP) £20.50
04-61 BOROMIR (ITHILIEN) £20.50
09-60 SULADAN THE SERPENT LORD £20.50
08-62 THE DARK MARSHAL (RINGWRAITH) £20.50
05-61 DAIN AND BALIN £15.00
97-60 SKULLTAKER £14.50
48-40 MARNEUS CALGAR AND HONOUR GUARD £36.00
48-41 SPACE MARINE TECHMARINE WITH SERVITORS £25.50
55-40 BLACK TEMPLARS SWORD BRETHREN SQUAD £25.50
48-42 SPACE MARINE STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50
48-43 SPACE MARINE VANGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50
53-40 CANIS WOLFBORN £30.00
43-40 NURGLE DAEMON PRINCE £21.50
43-41 CHAOS SPACE MARINE RAPTORS £25.50
43-42 DEATH GUARD PLAGUE MARINES £25.50
50-43 BOSS ZAGSTRUK £14.50
50-40 GHAZGHKULL THRAKA £22.50
50-41 ORK TANKBUSTAS £25.50
50-42 ORK BIG MEK WITH SHOKK ATTACK GUN £23.00
46-41 ELDAR RANGERS £20.50
46-42 ELDAR DARK REAPERS £23.00
46-44 ELDAR STRIKING SCORPIONS £23.00
46-40 ELDAR FARSEER AND WARLOCKS £20.50
51-42 TYRANID LICTOR £15.50
51-40 TYRANID HIVE TYRANT £36.00
51-41 TYRANID PYROVORE £21.50
45-40 DARK ELDAR INCUBI £23.00
45-41 DARK ELDAR MANDRAKES £20.50
56-40 TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM £23.00
83-42 ARCHAON THE EVERCHOSEN £30.00
83-43 CHAOS LORD ON DAEMONIC MOUNT £22.50
83-41 CHAOS DRAGON OGRE SHAGGOTH £36.00
86-41 LUDWIG SCHWARZHELM £22.50
86-40 KURT HELBORG £22.50
82-41 THE GREEN KNIGHT £22.50
82-40 KING LOUEN LEONCOEUR £30.00
92-42 WOOD ELVES TREE KIN £30.00
92-40 ORION KING IN THE WOODS £22.50
92-41 WOOD ELVES TREEMAN £36.00
84-40 THOREK IRONBROW £36.00
84-41 DWARF GYROCOPTER £23.00
84-42 DWARF BOLT THROWER £23.00
90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00
91-40 VAMPIRE COUNTS VARGHULF £21.50
91-42 COUNT MANNFRED £22.50
91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
88-41 KROQ GAR £40.00
89-44 GOBLIN SPEAR CHUKKA £18.50
89-43 SAVAGE ORC GREAT SHAMAN ON WAR BOAR £15.50
89-41 ORC WARBOSS ON WYVERN £40.00
89-42 GOBLIN ROCK LOBBER £23.00
89-45 GORBAD IRONCLAW £30.00
89-40 AZHAG THE SLAUGHTERER £55.00
85-41 DARK ELVES REAPER BOLT THROWER £18.50
08-40 THE DARK LORD SAURON £25.50
08-42 GULAHVAR THE TERROR OF ARNOR £30.00
08-43 MORDOR TROLL CHIEFTAIN £25.50
02-40 THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING £37.00
97-42 FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH £15.50
41670
Post by: Swordwind
Howls of joy at jump pack chaplain, autarch and ASTFGL PLASTICY ASPECT WARRIORS.
Less happy about increased prices.
28716
Post by: Harry
The good news is ... they have found a way to use the new material with existing moulds. So nothing need go out of production.
The bad news is ... they have taken the opportunity to shaft us a liitle more on the price.... which is nice.
18410
Post by: filbert
Canis Wolfborn £30....
Yes, its a chunky model but £30?
Blow me, GW.
5394
Post by: reds8n
Indeed.
It's more things like the bestpartof£15 for models like Abaddon that have me exhaling coca cola all over my monitor and keyboard .
18410
Post by: filbert
The cheapest price on there seems to be £9.50.
If we compare like for like, Emperor's Champion is currently listed on the GW site for £8.20 so that's a £1.30 increase. Models like Canis that were already pretty pricey have jumped £5 or so. Just trying to figure out my rusty and ropey maths skills - that's something in the order of 16% hike right?
Even by GW standards, those price rises are astronomical...
5394
Post by: reds8n
yeah.
It's really most odd which models have gone up and by what %... some models have just gone up a quid or less whilst others... I guess they really don't want anyone using Blood Knights anymore eh ? Looks to me like a few repacks as well, unless jezzails for example are in fact made of platinum.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Platinum Jezzails are only counterable by Diamond Blood Knights!
34906
Post by: Pacific
What a load of absolute gak. An inferior material, and the obligatory increase in price.
Well at least a lot of the metals will be kicking around on ebay for some years I would guess.
171
Post by: Lorek
Shall we start a new thread, or re-name this one, for clarity?
14070
Post by: SagesStone
filbert wrote:The cheapest price on there seems to be £9.50.
If we compare like for like, Emperor's Champion is currently listed on the GW site for £8.20 so that's a £1.30 increase. Models like Canis that were already pretty pricey have jumped £5 or so. Just trying to figure out my rusty and ropey maths skills - that's something in the order of 16% hike right?
Even by GW standards, those price rises are astronomical...
Oh god. 
18410
Post by: filbert
Lorek wrote:Shall we start a new thread, or re-name this one, for clarity?
Got a feeling there will be a load more threads cropping up once this is announced 'officially'.
9099
Post by: ruyn
I finally have something rumor-ish/news-ish to add to a rumor post!
So I can confirm that not only are these models lacking in stores, as many have noticed, but some models are no longer available on mail order, despite still being on the website.
After ordering several metal miniatures, I received a message explaining that there will be delays in my order and that the release schedule for these miniatures is as follows:
99239999030 Army Figure Case 17-May-11
99060108013 Battle Sisters 20-May-11
99060203089 Bretonnian Damsel with Staff 20-May-11
99110102083 Chaos Space Marines Plague Marines 20-May-11
99110101328 Dark Angels Master of the Ravenwing 20-May-11
99060112067 Dark Eldar Clawed Fiend 20-May-11
99060112068 Dark Eldar Razorwing Flock 20-May-11
99110101367 Deathwatch Kill Team Conversion Kit 20-May-11
99060107057 Grey Knight Brother-Captain 20-May-11
99060107058 Grey Knight Crusader 2 20-May-11
99060107060 Grey Knight Inquisitor with Inferno P 20-May-11
99060108077 Grey Knight Vindicare Assassin 20-May-11
99060108075 Grey Knight Warrior Acolyte 20-May-11
99060110022 Necron Lord and Resurrection Orb 20-May-11
99110213002 Ogre Kingdoms Tyrant 20-May-11
99060103111 Ork in Mega Armour with Kombi 20-May-11
99119915024 Plaguebearers of Nurgle 20-May-11
99060108059 Sisters Repentia 20-May-11
99060101334 Space Marine Chaplain with Crozius 20-May-11
99110101394 Space Marine Thunderfire Cannon 20-May-11
99140113005 Tau XV88 Broadside Battlesuit 20-May-11
99060106062 Tyranid Venomthrope 20-May-11
99060101396 Ultramarines Captain Sicarius 20-May-11
99060101451 Astorath the Grim 03-Jun-11
99110102065 Chaos Space Marines Emperor's Chil 03-Jun-11
99060101281 Dark Angel Tactical Sergeant 03-Jun-11
99060112056 Dark Eldar Archon 03-Jun-11
99110112059 Dark Eldar Incubi 03-Jun-11
99110209109 Goblin Doom Diver 03-Jun-11
99119915036 Greater Daemon of Nurgle 03-Jun-11
99120107002 Grey Knights 03-Jun-11
99110209041 Grom the Paunch of the Misty Mount 03-Jun-11
99110108051 Inquisitor Lord Karamazov on the 03-Jun-11
99060105162 Lord Castellan Ursarkar Creed & Kell 03-Jun-11
99060107064 Lord Kaldor Draigo 03-Jun-11
99110101299 Marneus Calgar and Honour Guard 03-Jun-11
99060599135 Necromunda: Redeemer and Malekev 03-Jun-11
99140110016 Necron Destroyer Lord 03-Jun-11
99060101315 Space Marine Chaplain in Terminator 03-Jun-11
99110207116 Tomb Kings Casket of Souls 03-Jun-11
99060207113 Tomb Kings Liche Priests 03-Jun-11
99060207132 Tomb Kings Ushabti Vulture 03-Jun-11
99060101208 Wolf Lord Logan Grimnar 03-Jun-11
99060207133 Settra, Tomb King Of Khemri 10-Jun-11
99060207120 High Queen Khalida 24-Jun-11
99060207127 Tomb King with Sword and Shield 24-Jun-11
99060207123 Tomb Kings Tomb Herald 24-Jun-11
Now since all of these are metal models that have been previously released, I'm not sure what the delays are. This may or may not have something to do with the rumor at hand, but I don't know for certain. I can't, however, think of another reason for the delays, so I'll let you guys be the judge.
Edit: Ok, so reds8n beat me to the list, but I've got the dates, so together with his prices, we have some news.
666
Post by: Necros
Is today the day they were supposed to make that big mystery announcement about the resin rumors being false and they're just repackaging stuff?
28300
Post by: creeping-deth87
I don't see anything on their website and the product descriptions still say they're metal, how official is this?
18410
Post by: filbert
creeping-deth87 wrote:I don't see anything on their website and the product descriptions still say they're metal, how official is this?
Because they are notoriously slow at updating their website. Remember, GW like to pretend the internet will go away if they ignore it enough.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Necros wrote:Is today the day they were supposed to make that big mystery announcement about the resin rumors being false and they're just repackaging stuff?
They were supposed to make that big mystery announcement...to retailers.
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Resin Hybrids? So the cult is back?
958
Post by: mikhaila
Kanluwen wrote:Necros wrote:Is today the day they were supposed to make that big mystery announcement about the resin rumors being false and they're just repackaging stuff?
They were supposed to make that big mystery announcement...to retailers.
Yep, that was what we got told. I've put in calls, left messages. Waiting to hear back.
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
a 30% price hike on a Death Jester? How stupid are they?
7361
Post by: Howard A Treesong
reds8n wrote: Indeed.
It's more things like the bestpartof£15 for models like Abaddon that have me exhaling coca cola all over my monitor and keyboard .
Yep, £15 for a tired old model that's older than several of the members here' What a joke. Please GW release a new Abaddon, he's the leader of the Chaos forces and looks like a wimp.
Did GW make this change over to "save money"? They save themselves money and still put the prices up. I suspected it would be the case but it's going to be a bit of a blow for those that thought prices would remain static.
16156
Post by: Antonius
Hybrid resin models? I wonder how they'll spin this in the usual week late email saying its wonderful news?
23014
Post by: LavuranGuard
Wasn't the reason they were switching away from metal because it was becoming too expensive? Now it's resin and more money so that's plain bull.
I thought this would happen, and it makes me really sad, GW is a complete price gouger, oh for the days of a £2.99 blister with 5 METAL figures!
958
Post by: mikhaila
Antonius wrote:Hybrid resin models? I wonder how they'll spin this in the usual week late email saying its wonderful news?
Hybrid used to be a kit with metal and plastic parts. Now we'll see things like a Broadside Battlesuit with resin and plastic parts.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Howard A Treesong wrote:reds8n wrote: Indeed.
It's more things like the bestpartof£15 for models like Abaddon that have me exhaling coca cola all over my monitor and keyboard .
Yep, £15 for a tired old model that's older than several of the members here' What a joke. Please GW release a new Abaddon, he's the leader of the Chaos forces and looks like a wimp.
Did GW make this change over to "save money"? They save themselves money and still put the prices up. I suspected it would be the case but it's going to be a bit of a blow for those that thought prices would remain static.
Pft. Clearly this price jump is because they had to find a middle man to sell all the remaining stockpile of metal and beat the Production Line Fairy to change their production lines over from metal spin-casting to resin.
(Note: That's sarcasm. I didn't expect prices to stay the same or lower, but meh. Not really skin off my back other than cutting down on me buying a few metal models from ranges I have no intention of collecting an army for and just want to paint).
18410
Post by: filbert
Are we sure they aren't planning on moving to a sort of resin/plastic combo? Mantic do a similar thing for their undead Revenant cavalry - they call it restic, rather snappily.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
filbert wrote:Are we sure they aren't planning on moving to a sort of resin/plastic combo? Mantic do a similar thing for their undead Revenant cavalry - they call it restic, rather snappily.
Supposedly that's what they were doing, actually.
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Not a big surprise on the price gauge but I think the percentages this time are just way to big.
Now lets see the quality of these "Citadel Fine Cast's" I can only espect Mcvey studios casts quality opposed to FW cast quality.
39917
Post by: DAWARBOSS
wait, are we sure GW is switching to resin? it could be a plastic kit, similar to the SM captain.
9594
Post by: RiTides
Help, I'm confused. Here's reds8n's list:
reds8n wrote:Starting from the 28th of May 120 products that were Games Workshop direct only items will be coming back on the shelves as resin or resin Hybrids. This new range “Citadel Fine Cast” range will be limited in number for the first few months, so we will be taking advance orders for them.
Here are the new recast products at the full RRP;
41-60 COMMANDER DANTE £10.50
53-60 LOGAN GRIMNAR £14.50
55-61 THE EMPERORS CHAMPION £9.50
48-63 SPACE MARINE CHAPLAIN WITH JUMP PACK £10.50
44-60 DARK ANGELS COMPANY MASTER £10.50
48-61 SM LIBRARIAN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR £14.50
53-61 NJAL STORMCALLER £14.50
41-61 ASTORATH THE GRIM £12.50
43-60 ABADDON THE DESPOILER £14.50
43-61 HURON BLACKHEART £10.50
50-61 ORK WARBOSS WITH ATTACK SQUIG £14.50
50-63 ORK BIG MEK £14.50
50-65 ORK PAINBOY WITH GROT ORDERLY £10.50
46-61 ELDAR AUTARCH WITH POWER WEAPON £10.50
46-62 THE AVATAR OF KHAINE £22.50
46-63 HARLEQUIN DEATH JESTER £10.50
46-64 HARLEQUIN SHADOWSEER £10.50
47-61 COMMISSAR YARRICK £10.50
47-63 IMPERIAL GUARD LORD COMMISSAR £9.50
51-61 TYRANID ZOANTHROPE £15.50
51-63 TYRANID TYRANT GUARD £15.50
51-64 TYRANID HIVE GUARD £15.50
51-65 TYRANID BROODLORD £15.50
57-61 BROTHER CAPTAIN STERN £14.50
57-60 LORD KALDOR DRAIGO £14.50
57-62 CASTELLAN CROWE £10.50
57-63 INQUISITOR COTEAZ £10.50
45-60 DARK ELDAR ARCHON £9.50
45-64 LELITH HESPERAX £10.50
45-63 URIEN RAKARTH £10.50
45-61 DARK ELDAR SUCCUBUS £9.50
56-60 TAU ETHEREAL WITH HONOUR BLADE £9.50
83-62 CHAOS EXALTED HERO £9.50
83-63 CHAOS KHORNE EXALTED HERO £10.50
86-60 EMPIRE CAPTAIN WITH HAMMER & PISTOL £9.50
92-60 WOOD ELF HIGHBORN WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
84-60 DWARF LORD WITH HAMMER & SHIELD £9.50
84-61 DWARF RUNELORD WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
90-60 SKAVEN WARLORD £9.50
90-61 QUEEK HEADTAKER £10.50
90-62 DEATHMASTER SNIKCH £10.50
91-61 VAMPIRE LORD £9.50
89-60 GRIMGOR IRONHIDE £10.50
89-62 BLACK ORC BIG BOSS £10.50
87-60 CARADRYAN £10.50
85-61 DARK ELF ASSASSIN WITH TWO HAND WEAPONS £9.50
81-60 MALAGOR THE DARK OMEN £12.50
10-61 URUK-HAI WITH CROSSBOWS £14.00
10-62 URUK-HAI BERSERKERS £14.00
08-61 GOTHMOG (PELENNOR) £20.50
05-60 ELROND AND GIL-GALAD £15.00
10-60 SARUMAN AND GRIMA £15.00
02-60 GANDALF THE WHITE £20.50
04-60 ARAGORN (THE BLACK GATE) £20.50
04-62 THEODEN (HELM’S DEEP) £20.50
04-61 BOROMIR (ITHILIEN) £20.50
09-60 SULADAN THE SERPENT LORD £20.50
08-62 THE DARK MARSHAL (RINGWRAITH) £20.50
05-61 DAIN AND BALIN £15.00
97-60 SKULLTAKER £14.50
48-40 MARNEUS CALGAR AND HONOUR GUARD £36.00
48-41 SPACE MARINE TECHMARINE WITH SERVITORS £25.50
55-40 BLACK TEMPLARS SWORD BRETHREN SQUAD £25.50
48-42 SPACE MARINE STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50
48-43 SPACE MARINE VANGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50
53-40 CANIS WOLFBORN £30.00
43-40 NURGLE DAEMON PRINCE £21.50
43-41 CHAOS SPACE MARINE RAPTORS £25.50
43-42 DEATH GUARD PLAGUE MARINES £25.50
50-43 BOSS ZAGSTRUK £14.50
50-40 GHAZGHKULL THRAKA £22.50
50-41 ORK TANKBUSTAS £25.50
50-42 ORK BIG MEK WITH SHOKK ATTACK GUN £23.00
46-41 ELDAR RANGERS £20.50
46-42 ELDAR DARK REAPERS £23.00
46-44 ELDAR STRIKING SCORPIONS £23.00
46-40 ELDAR FARSEER AND WARLOCKS £20.50
51-42 TYRANID LICTOR £15.50
51-40 TYRANID HIVE TYRANT £36.00
51-41 TYRANID PYROVORE £21.50
45-40 DARK ELDAR INCUBI £23.00
45-41 DARK ELDAR MANDRAKES £20.50
56-40 TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM £23.00
83-42 ARCHAON THE EVERCHOSEN £30.00
83-43 CHAOS LORD ON DAEMONIC MOUNT £22.50
83-41 CHAOS DRAGON OGRE SHAGGOTH £36.00
86-41 LUDWIG SCHWARZHELM £22.50
86-40 KURT HELBORG £22.50
82-41 THE GREEN KNIGHT £22.50
82-40 KING LOUEN LEONCOEUR £30.00
92-42 WOOD ELVES TREE KIN £30.00
92-40 ORION KING IN THE WOODS £22.50
92-41 WOOD ELVES TREEMAN £36.00
84-40 THOREK IRONBROW £36.00
84-41 DWARF GYROCOPTER £23.00
84-42 DWARF BOLT THROWER £23.00
90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00
91-40 VAMPIRE COUNTS VARGHULF £21.50
91-42 COUNT MANNFRED £22.50
91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
88-41 KROQ GAR £40.00
89-44 GOBLIN SPEAR CHUKKA £18.50
89-43 SAVAGE ORC GREAT SHAMAN ON WAR BOAR £15.50
89-41 ORC WARBOSS ON WYVERN £40.00
89-42 GOBLIN ROCK LOBBER £23.00
89-45 GORBAD IRONCLAW £30.00
89-40 AZHAG THE SLAUGHTERER £55.00
85-41 DARK ELVES REAPER BOLT THROWER £18.50
08-40 THE DARK LORD SAURON £25.50
08-42 GULAHVAR THE TERROR OF ARNOR £30.00
08-43 MORDOR TROLL CHIEFTAIN £25.50
02-40 THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING £37.00
97-42 FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH £15.50
Now here's ruyn's list:
ruyn wrote:99239999030 Army Figure Case 17-May-11
99060108013 Battle Sisters 20-May-11
99060203089 Bretonnian Damsel with Staff 20-May-11
99110102083 Chaos Space Marines Plague Marines 20-May-11
99110101328 Dark Angels Master of the Ravenwing 20-May-11
99060112067 Dark Eldar Clawed Fiend 20-May-11
99060112068 Dark Eldar Razorwing Flock 20-May-11
99110101367 Deathwatch Kill Team Conversion Kit 20-May-11
99060107057 Grey Knight Brother-Captain 20-May-11
99060107058 Grey Knight Crusader 2 20-May-11
99060107060 Grey Knight Inquisitor with Inferno P 20-May-11
99060108077 Grey Knight Vindicare Assassin 20-May-11
99060108075 Grey Knight Warrior Acolyte 20-May-11
99060110022 Necron Lord and Resurrection Orb 20-May-11
99110213002 Ogre Kingdoms Tyrant 20-May-11
99060103111 Ork in Mega Armour with Kombi 20-May-11
99119915024 Plaguebearers of Nurgle 20-May-11
99060108059 Sisters Repentia 20-May-11
99060101334 Space Marine Chaplain with Crozius 20-May-11
99110101394 Space Marine Thunderfire Cannon 20-May-11
99140113005 Tau XV88 Broadside Battlesuit 20-May-11
99060106062 Tyranid Venomthrope 20-May-11
99060101396 Ultramarines Captain Sicarius 20-May-11
99060101451 Astorath the Grim 03-Jun-11
99110102065 Chaos Space Marines Emperor's Chil 03-Jun-11
99060101281 Dark Angel Tactical Sergeant 03-Jun-11
99060112056 Dark Eldar Archon 03-Jun-11
99110112059 Dark Eldar Incubi 03-Jun-11
99110209109 Goblin Doom Diver 03-Jun-11
99119915036 Greater Daemon of Nurgle 03-Jun-11
99120107002 Grey Knights 03-Jun-11
99110209041 Grom the Paunch of the Misty Mount 03-Jun-11
99110108051 Inquisitor Lord Karamazov on the 03-Jun-11
99060105162 Lord Castellan Ursarkar Creed & Kell 03-Jun-11
99060107064 Lord Kaldor Draigo 03-Jun-11
99110101299 Marneus Calgar and Honour Guard 03-Jun-11
99060599135 Necromunda: Redeemer and Malekev 03-Jun-11
99140110016 Necron Destroyer Lord 03-Jun-11
99060101315 Space Marine Chaplain in Terminator 03-Jun-11
99110207116 Tomb Kings Casket of Souls 03-Jun-11
99060207113 Tomb Kings Liche Priests 03-Jun-11
99060207132 Tomb Kings Ushabti Vulture 03-Jun-11
99060101208 Wolf Lord Logan Grimnar 03-Jun-11
99060207133 Settra, Tomb King Of Khemri 10-Jun-11
99060207120 High Queen Khalida 24-Jun-11
99060207127 Tomb King with Sword and Shield 24-Jun-11
99060207123 Tomb Kings Tomb Herald 24-Jun-11
This is NOT the same list... I got ruyn's list in an email after I placed an order for 2 DE Clawed Fiends (coming in on May 20th, as shown above). These are not mentioned anywhere in reds8n's list. DE Clawed Fiends are coming in on May 20th, and should be shipped then, and I expect them to be all-metal.
However, they were on HBMC's list of models that were being discontinued (which is why I ordered them). But again, they're not on reds8n's list of models to be put out in resin or metal/resin hybrid.
What's with the discrepancy? I.e. Where are the missing models that were rumored to be discontinued, but aren't in the resin list reds8n posted?
16156
Post by: Antonius
mikhaila wrote:Antonius wrote:Hybrid resin models? I wonder how they'll spin this in the usual week late email saying its wonderful news?
Hybrid used to be a kit with metal and plastic parts. Now we'll see things like a Broadside Battlesuit with resin and plastic parts.
Oh, I know. And they were / are a royal PITA to assemble and pin! 
Pity that they're price-gouging, yet again. :(
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Ruyn's list does look like it's a stock replenishment list rather than full sales list.
If I absolutely had to guess: the other models that aren't on the resin list that Reds8n posted aren't going to be made into resin. One of the things on Ruyn's list is the "Deathwatch Kill-Team Conversion Kit". Another is the Dark Angels Tactical Sergeant(guy in a robe with head bared, chainsword raised over his head, and wearing leather gauntlets over top of his power armored ones), heck there's a Necromunda model on there.
Ruyn's list really looks like it's just "Oh look these are expected to be back in stock on this date".
29190
Post by: CURNOW
well tbh i hate tin figs and anything that makes it easyer model and convert is great with me .
9099
Post by: ruyn
RiTides wrote:This is NOT the same list... I got ruyn's list in an email after I placed an order for 2 DE Clawed Fiends (coming in on May 20th, as shown above). These are not mentioned anywhere in reds8n's list. DE Clawed Fiends are coming in on May 20th, and should be shipped then, and I expect them to be all-metal.
However, they were on HBMC's list of models that were being discontinued (which is why I ordered them). But again, they're not on reds8n's list of models to be put out in resin or metal/resin hybrid.
What's with the discrepancy? I.e. Where are the missing models that were rumored to be discontinued, but aren't in the resin list reds8n posted?
I wondered that one myself. I can't explain the discrepancy either, but I'm hoping the models that I ordered that are "delayed" will be resin when they arrive!
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Overall bad news from GW on all fronts.
7107
Post by: Tek
Wait a minute, resin is a fraction of the cost of metal, but GW are keeping their prices high?
See, this is why I buy my models from eBay.
666
Post by: Necros
They're calling resin "finecast"? I guess FW won't be making them then?
9099
Post by: ruyn
Kanluwen wrote:Ruyn's list does look like it's a stock replenishment list rather than full sales list.
If I absolutely had to guess: the other models that aren't on the resin list that Reds8n posted aren't going to be made into resin. One of the things on Ruyn's list is the "Deathwatch Kill-Team Conversion Kit". Another is the Dark Angels Tactical Sergeant(guy in a robe with head bared, chainsword raised over his head, and wearing leather gauntlets over top of his power armored ones), heck there's a Necromunda model on there.
Ruyn's list really looks like it's just "Oh look these are expected to be back in stock on this date".
While that was my original thought as well, I later thought that the timing was a bit too coincidental. Now having sat down with both lists, I'm inclined to think that you are correct (as was my original assumption), but I'm really hoping it's not true and the list I provided is getting resin. A resin thunderfire cannon would be SOOO much better!!!
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
So Ogre Tyrant has been pulled, but isn't being made into resin. Yep, thanks, take our lord model without giving us an alternative.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
ruyn wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Ruyn's list does look like it's a stock replenishment list rather than full sales list.
If I absolutely had to guess: the other models that aren't on the resin list that Reds8n posted aren't going to be made into resin. One of the things on Ruyn's list is the "Deathwatch Kill-Team Conversion Kit". Another is the Dark Angels Tactical Sergeant(guy in a robe with head bared, chainsword raised over his head, and wearing leather gauntlets over top of his power armored ones), heck there's a Necromunda model on there.
Ruyn's list really looks like it's just "Oh look these are expected to be back in stock on this date".
While that was my original thought as well, I later thought that the timing was a bit too coincidental. Now having sat down with both lists, I'm inclined to think that you are correct (as was my original assumption), but I'm really hoping it's not true and the list I provided is getting resin. A resin thunderfire cannon would be SOOO much better!!!
Bear in mind: I'm not saying they likely won't move it to resin. But it's more likely that they've still got a buttload of the metals there to sell.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Also, resin Incubi. My week has been made.
Just ogre tyrant, and I will be happy bunny.
123
Post by: Alpharius
We've known this was coming for a while now, but some of the new prices are still somewhat surprising.
Same old depressing same old...
7361
Post by: Howard A Treesong
Kanluwen wrote:(Note: That's sarcasm. I didn't expect prices to stay the same or lower, but meh. Not really skin off my back other than cutting down on me buying a few metal models from ranges I have no intention of collecting an army for and just want to paint).
These things *always* cost money. Because there's going to be a transition period while they get used to the new material, have greater degree of miscasts, having the overheads of managing the switch over. These things were apparent when they switched to lead-free alloy, but they quality and consistency returned. As I said, these things costs money but of course they'll whack up the prices to cover the short term costs and then leave them there.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Cerebrium wrote:Also, resin Incubi. My week has been made.
Just ogre tyrant, and I will be happy bunny.
Ogre Tyrant is likely going to be made into resin...when the new Ogre book is released. Or maybe an Ogre Lord plastic kit.
Who knows?
Howard A Treesong wrote:These things *always* cost money. Because there's going to be a transition period while they get used to the new material, have greater degree of miscasts, having the overheads of managing the switch over. These things were apparent when they switched to lead-free alloy, but they quality and consistency returned. As I said, these things costs money but of course they'll whack up the prices to cover the short term costs and then leave them there.
I'm aware of the fact that these things cost money.
I'm curious as to if we'll actually see a price drop(I know, optimism at work) at some point or not.
958
Post by: mikhaila
RiTides wrote:Help, I'm confused. Here's reds8n's list:
(snip)
This is NOT the same list... I got ruyn's list in an email after I placed an order for 2 DE Clawed Fiends (coming in on May 20th, as shown above). These are not mentioned anywhere in reds8n's list. DE Clawed Fiends are coming in on May 20th, and should be shipped then, and I expect them to be all-metal.
However, they were on HBMC's list of models that were being discontinued (which is why I ordered them). But again, they're not on reds8n's list of models to be put out in resin or metal/resin hybrid.
What's with the discrepancy? I.e. Where are the missing models that were rumored to be discontinued, but aren't in the resin list reds8n posted?
Basically, all metal goes away:
-Some, they are making a little bit of, and releasing through direct, waiting until they can make them in resin.
-120 resin kits will be ready to go.
-Stuff not in the first two catagories heads to the island of misfit toys.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
Is this news or still just a (probably correct) rumour? The GW page isn't showing anything.
Marneus Calgar + Honour Guard goes from £30.75 to £36.00, a 17% increase.
Terminator Librarian goes up by 17.8%.
Looks like a roughly 17% increase on the recast models.
Zoanthropes will have gone from £12 to £15.50 in a year. Even allowing for VAT rise it is a pretty swingeing 25% increase, especially considering the benefit of the move to resin is cheaper raw materials.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Kilkrazy wrote:Is this news or still just a (probably correct) rumour? The GW page isn't showing anything.
Marneus Calgar + Honour Guard goes from £30.75 to £36.00, a 17% increase.
Terminator Librarian goes up by 17.8%.
Looks like a roughly 17% increase on the recast models.
Zoanthropes will have gone from £12 to £15.50 in a year. Even allowing for VAT rise it is a pretty swingeing 25% increase, especially considering the benefit of the move to resin is cheaper raw materials.
Finecast is 'confirmed', the price costs aren't 100% confirmed nor if they'll be direct only or packaged and sold in stores like normal.
39004
Post by: biccat
Kilkrazy wrote:Is this news or still just a (probably correct) rumour? The GW page isn't showing anything.
Marneus Calgar + Honour Guard goes from £30.75 to £36.00, a 17% increase.
Terminator Librarian goes up by 17.8%.
Looks like a roughly 17% increase on the recast models.
Zoanthropes will have gone from £12 to £15.50 in a year. Even allowing for VAT rise it is a pretty swingeing 25% increase, especially considering the benefit of the move to resin is cheaper raw materials.
You missed Jezzails (£8.70 to £30.00). Although I would assume those are going to a 2- or 3-pack (making the change at least defensible).
4712
Post by: GCMandrake
I thought GW were selling this change as inevitable due to increasing tin prices? And they use it to increase prices by up to 27%? This comes coupled with the new restrictions on international selling?
GW missed a trick to get everyone back on side with a price drop. All everyone will see this as is higher prices for inferior products (regardless of whether that's true or not). Expect another dire GW stock forecast.
7680
Post by: oni
Kilkrazy wrote:Is this news or still just a (probably correct) rumour? The GW page isn't showing anything.
Marneus Calgar + Honour Guard goes from £30.75 to £36.00, a 17% increase.
Terminator Librarian goes up by 17.8%.
Looks like a roughly 17% increase on the recast models.
Zoanthropes will have gone from £12 to £15.50 in a year. Even allowing for VAT rise it is a pretty swingeing 25% increase, especially considering the benefit of the move to resin is cheaper raw materials.
It's confirmed.
The new material isn't quite resin it's (from what I've read) a plastic/resin hybrid. This may or may not be as drastic a price drop in materials as one would think. I honestly don't know. I've also read that there was some retooling needed (added vents and such) for the current molds. Also, that metals were making next to no profit, some even a loss to GW. SOoo... I'm assuming the combination of all this is why the price went up. ~My source of info is the BoLS Lounge. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kanluwen wrote:...direct only or packaged and sold in stores like normal.
From my understanding they'll be direct only until stock numbers are sufficient enough to warrant them being placed on store shelves.
9594
Post by: RiTides
Maelstrom wrote:Finecast
Onto other Games Workshop news. We'll shortly be stocking their superb Finecast range, which - if you didn't know already - is most of their deleted metal models, re-released in resin but somewhat more expensive than the original. Those will be on general sale on the 28th of May, for Games Workshop do not wish us to put them up for sale until then so they can keep up with demand.
Ah, interesting...
mikhaila wrote:Basically, all metal goes away:
-Some, they are making a little bit of, and releasing through direct, waiting until they can make them in resin.
-120 resin kits will be ready to go.
-Stuff not in the first two catagories heads to the island of misfit toys.
I wish we could get a better list of what is in which category... i.e., what's going to direct and what's going to "the island".
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
Very interested in resin incubi... NOT interested in selling a testicle for them.
9883
Post by: Cyporiean
oni wrote:
It's confirmed.
The new material isn't quite resin it's (from what I've read) a plastic/resin hybrid. This may or may not be as drastic a price drop in materials as one would think. I honestly don't know. I've also read that there was some retooling needed (added vents and such) for the current molds. Also, that metals were making next to no profit, some even a loss to GW. SOoo... I'm assuming the combination of all this is why the price went up. ~My source of info is the BoLS Lounge.
Most likely its the same stuff Mantic is using, that allowed them to sell their Resin-Plastics at half the cost of their Metals.
But its GW, so they'll just say that anything adds to their costs, and that they are taking a loss in everything they do.
26430
Post by: McNs
I know this equates to "I'm taking my ball and going home", but really, I'm finishing my Tomb Kings army and I'm done with GW's major games (side note: what does this mean for specialist games?).
Love their IP, their prices have always been on the high side, but this is too much. As a fantasy player, I'm not paying a ~25% for all non-plastics after just having been convinced to increase the size of my average 50% (i.e. - 2000 pts to 3000 pts).
Privateer and/or other comapnies (maybe Mantic) will be getting my cash henceforth.
38067
Post by: spaceelf
Tis a very sad day indeed, but one that many of us knew was coming. Hopefully the Specialist Games will survive.
The only good news is that there will probably be lots of miniatures on the after-market because so many people will be leaving the hobby.
38176
Post by: Griever
Reduce costs, and then increase the prices! GW strikes again.
666
Post by: Necros
Glad I just finished buying all the goblins I need.. but once they put out the new necrons I'll be poor again.
17796
Post by: Slinky
I'll be interested to see side-by-side comparisons of the same models in metal and "finecast" - I wonder if they are sharper in detail, or if "finecast" is just a marketing name with no basis in fact.
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
Slinky wrote:I'll be interested to see side-by-side comparisons of the same models in metal and "finecast" - I wonder if they are sharper in detail, or if "finecast" is just a marketing name with no basis in fact.
I don't see how they could be better, the master models will remain the same.
17796
Post by: Slinky
Agamemnon2 wrote:Slinky wrote:I'll be interested to see side-by-side comparisons of the same models in metal and "finecast" - I wonder if they are sharper in detail, or if "finecast" is just a marketing name with no basis in fact.
I don't see how they could be better, the master models will remain the same.
But metal shrinks as it cools, whereas perhaps the new material will stay fully filling the moulds?
11973
Post by: Slackermagee
ZOMG, Lictors I don't hate myself for putting together can't wai... but now they've got a new codex. And they can't assault after appearing. Neeevermind.
No plastic and resin broadside kits? Cripes, GW. You really could have pumped broadsides out if people knew they weren't going to crush one model in frustration for every two they built.
8330
Post by: kestral
I will wait till its all sorted out before grabbing my pitchfork, but that sounds nasty. Not sure how I feel about resin - sure its more convertable, but that's not what I look for in single character models. To me the value is in the quality of the sculpting. Metal's relative durability (for most models) is a plus its hard to see "fine casting" overcoming.
5468
Post by: temprus
Go GW, they have the post up on UK/USA but it only is the the title: "Citadel Finecast Announced; Grandfather Nurgle pays us a visit." Maybe Grandpa Nurgle ate the rest of the post.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16400050a
10143
Post by: Slipstream
I can honestly say that since being in the hobby since 1983, Games Workshop have succeded in driving me out. If I need stuff I'll wait until I can get it second hand at wargames shows. Somehow I don't think these prices will remain stable, the price hikes will continue simply because of how volatile the world market for oil is; there is oil in resin. So lets not get deluded here, the price will go up and up until enough of us see the light and not buy. This is going to hit the independent retailers also, discounts are going to be harder to justify and may not be seen as good business or deals. In my eyes GW are getting close to circling the drain. of course they need to make money but they are now out to screw us for all we have and little regard to the hobby. As long as they show a profit to the shareholders is all they seem to be interested in. Well I'm now spending my money with other companies like Mantic. Who cares if they don't have as much detail as GW?If it allows me to afford to buy minis in the first place I'm not bothered.
Many people are going to drop out of the hobby and won't be coming back. Players might find opponents tricky to come by very soon.
So GW farewell from a veteran. Treat us like crap and we will do the same in return. Cheers.
22756
Post by: knighthaunter
I'm with slipstream, i have been in this since 1988 and although i can say yes there product has gotten better over the years, they have also gotten more brazen with their price raising, this coupled with their newest restrictions for places like Maelstrom makes me really wonder how long i care to keep giving these guys money.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lorek wrote:
It's a placeholder.
LOL its already got 14 "likes" on facebook to
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
Let's all like it!
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
Lorek wrote:
It's a placeholder.
It's webmaster incompetence.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
I didn't want to be the person to say that.
No resin Venomthrope, interestingly.
I predicted weeks ago it would be hard to make the Venomthrope's long thin arms in resin.
7361
Post by: Howard A Treesong
spaceelf wrote:Tis a very sad day indeed, but one that many of us knew was coming. Hopefully the Specialist Games will survive.
The only good news is that there will probably be lots of miniatures on the after-market because so many people will be leaving the hobby.
On the other hand the 2nd hand prices could inflate as people try to buy up metal figures rather than their newer resin replacements.
4362
Post by: Ozymandias
Wait, so they switched to resin from metal to save money and then raised prices?!?
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Ozymandias wrote:Wait, so they switched to resin from metal to save money and then raised prices?!?
Raised prices in the UK. No sign of price raises anywhere else right now.
18410
Post by: filbert
Kanluwen wrote:Ozymandias wrote:Wait, so they switched to resin from metal to save money and then raised prices?!?
Raised prices in the UK. No sign of price raises anywhere else right now.
Ever the eternal optimist, eh Kan
722
Post by: Kanluwen
filbert wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Ozymandias wrote:Wait, so they switched to resin from metal to save money and then raised prices?!?
Raised prices in the UK. No sign of price raises anywhere else right now.
Ever the eternal optimist, eh Kan
I have to be. Otherwise it hurts my brain and I realize just how fethed up the situation is.
37729
Post by: AresX8
The article is up.
It essentially says: "Tune in next Monday for details as to what Citadel Finecast miniatures are! Oh, and on May 28th, these Finecast miniatures will be released to the world."
So much detail GW, I just can't wait to hear what you have to say.
/s
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Post by: Valhallan42nd
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Post by: Pyronick
Can't see if its already posted at work so here's the quoted text.
Games Workshop's quest to create the best quality miniatures in the world is about to take a huge step forward...
On 28th May we are launching Citadel Finecast miniatures to the world.
Don't miss the full announcement on games-workshop.com on the 23rd May to find out more.
Be sure to be at your local Hobby Centre to experience this unique, once-in-a-lifetime launch day! This will be your first chance to see, touch and buy Citadel Finecast miniatures.
In the meantime, there's only one question you need to ask yourself:
"What will my first Citadel Finecast miniature be?"
"Ah ha, so that's what they've been up to in the Studio. I had wondered why, when I walked in there, people kept hiding models under their desk. From what I've seen of the new miniatures (I accidentally picked one of them up without realising what it was) they look absolutely stunning. So stay tuned, because next Monday you'll all get to find out a whole lot more about them."
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Post by: ruyn
Slipstream wrote:I can honestly say that since being in the hobby since 1983, Games Workshop have succeded in driving me out. If I need stuff I'll wait until I can get it second hand at wargames shows. Somehow I don't think these prices will remain stable, the price hikes will continue simply because of how volatile the world market for oil is; there is oil in resin. So lets not get deluded here, the price will go up and up until enough of us see the light and not buy. This is going to hit the independent retailers also, discounts are going to be harder to justify and may not be seen as good business or deals. In my eyes GW are getting close to circling the drain. of course they need to make money but they are now out to screw us for all we have and little regard to the hobby. As long as they show a profit to the shareholders is all they seem to be interested in. Well I'm now spending my money with other companies like Mantic. Who cares if they don't have as much detail as GW?If it allows me to afford to buy minis in the first place I'm not bothered.
Many people are going to drop out of the hobby and won't be coming back. Players might find opponents tricky to come by very soon.
So GW farewell from a veteran. Treat us like crap and we will do the same in return. Cheers.
And yet, like oil prices, a few people may get sick of the price hikes and stop buying, but most of us will bend over and take it. Why? Because most of us don't think we can affect it and the rest of us don't care enough to try. It's sad but true.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
The announcement has been posted, but it's another "wait and see" that provides no real details at all till apparently next Monday. Grrr. These no announcement announcements are getting pretty tiresome. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16400050a
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Post by: Kanluwen
I really don't understand why people expected some kind of huge public announcement. Today was the announcement to retailers.
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Post by: Drachii
In before vast, vast amounts of rage?
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Post by: Bloodwin
Not much optimism here. I want to see new models in finecast before I condemn it. I'm curious if they can get better models at all. Also the price thing is nasty but I don't buy a lot of metal these days anyway. I get the odd special character but with most of the stuff coming out in plastic Id rather buy those products and kit-bash my own Lords and Heroes. Given that I'm not adverse to paying a higher pice for FW models I will probably buy the odd one or two models in finecast.
The geographic limiting is harsh, but Maelstrom are an odd situation. By having their discount and a good web presence they have cornered a market and it's tough enough for other EU companies to compete. Interestingly they dont say that they've been stopped discounting GW product. But then as I understand it, GW don't mind the discout per se but they don't approve of high volume discount and that's where Maelstrom are a victim of their own success.
I'm not a GW fanatic. I like a lot of their stuff yes, but I dont jump from army to army. I'm certainly not into 'the new hotness' each month. So this doesn't effect me much in the short term.
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Post by: gr1m_dan
*sigh*
Whilst I can afford to buy GW products without too much worry (I have to save and think REALLY hard about it though) their cut throat approach to business and "must please Shareholders" attitude is a reason why I've started Flames of War. Aside from awesome rules and cheaper models. For 30ish quid I have a whole US airborne rifle company! Fair play, it's 15mm and the models aren't nowhere near GW standards but the game overall is what counts, not looking at pretty models.
I'd rather GW go back off the stock market and concentrate on the hobby, not the money. (obviously make enough revenue to bring out fine products etc, just not rape us!)
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Post by: Bloodwin
Kanluwen wrote:I really don't understand why people expected some kind of huge public announcement. Today was the announcement to retailers.
I think this was heightened by Maelstrom not being able to say anything until today's announcement.
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Post by: gr1m_dan
Bloodwin wrote:Not much optimism here. I want to see new models in finecast before I condemn it. I'm curious if they can get better models at all. Also the price thing is nasty but I don't buy a lot of metal these days anyway. I get the odd special character but with most of the stuff coming out in plastic Id rather buy those products and kit-bash my own Lords and Heroes. Given that I'm not adverse to paying a higher pice for FW models I will probably buy the odd one or two models in finecast.
The geographic limiting is harsh, but Maelstrom are an odd situation. By having their discount and a good web presence they have cornered a market and it's tough enough for other EU companies to compete. Interestingly they dont say that they've been stopped discounting GW product. But then as I understand it, GW don't mind the discout per se but they don't approve of high volume discount and that's where Maelstrom are a victim of their own success.
I'm not a GW fanatic. I like a lot of their stuff yes, but I dont jump from army to army. I'm certainly not into 'the new hotness' each month. So this doesn't effect me much in the short term.
Maelstrom have also been in hot water with Battlefront Miniatures over their discount system and vouchers and it's gone as far as BF have stopped selling to them. Not to sure on the gory details but it's on Maelstroms website in the news section somewhere.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Kanluwen wrote:
I really don't understand why people expected some kind of huge public announcement. Today was the announcement to retailers.
Because the retailer announcement is not some huge secret thing. We all knew it was coming, so naturally people are anxious to hear the thing sooner rather than later. This is not complex logic, honestly.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Agamemnon2 wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
I really don't understand why people expected some kind of huge public announcement. Today was the announcement to retailers.
Because the retailer announcement is not some huge secret thing.
But that's the thing. It wasn't supposed to be a secret or public knowledge. We're, by and large, not retailers. There's no real reason for us to know.
We all knew it was coming, so naturally people are anxious to hear the thing sooner rather than later.
But there's the rub. We weren't supposed to know anything. The retailers likely weren't supposed to be posting knowledge about it before today, when they themselves got the "big announcement".
This is not complex logic, honestly.
No you're right. It's some sense of entitlement where everyone feels every aspect of everything should be transparent. Can't wait for WikiLeaks: GW edition to be called for.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
ruyn wrote:And yet, like oil prices, a few people may get sick of the price hikes and stop buying, but most of us will bend over and take it. Why? Because most of us don't think we can affect it and the rest of us don't care enough to try. It's sad but true.
Well oil prices control essential commodities which affect the ability to heat your home and travel to work. GW figures are hard;y the same thing. People can give them up if they wish, giving up petrol and gas is somewhat more difficult.
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Post by: Hellfury
Meh. Whatever.
GW were on the verge of becoming relevant again with such nice releases ad Dark Eldar.
Too bad. I hope those models are nice for the price, but I doubt there will be much is any difference in quality. They are the same damn sculpts after all and shrinkage is similar in both metal and resin mediums.
I also find it humorous that some people are aghast at the new development.
When the plastic terminators came out circa 4th ed and the price didnt drop when using much cheaper materials, people balked.
Same old trend, different medium.
Wake me up when GW hire actual game designers instead of firing the good ones like Rick Priestly. When they make models worthy of their exorbitant price tags. When they stop insulting the intelligence of their consumer base with patronizing comments and actions. When they are actually relevant again.
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Post by: Luther
Just stopping by to rage after seeing the news on GW site.
Price hikes?! As if I needed another reason to stop buying heros and make my own. I, for one, will be writing a complaint to GW and I will be telling them that I will NOT be buying this new attack on my wallet. Anyone else? I know it won't change things, but maybe if they get enough complaints......
EDIT: I wonder if I can still find a Lysander.
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Post by: Havok210
Before I equip myself with a torch and pitchfork, I am going to give GW a chance to explain what is going on. I have never worked with resin mini's before, so I dont know if it is more convenient, requires special adhesive, pinning, etc.
As far as price, I don't want to see an increase. I could swallow an increase (not happily of course), but my other friends are not as flushed with money and it may deter them from buying product as quickly as they would if the price actually went down.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Kanluwen wrote:
Because the retailer announcement is not some huge secret thing.
But that's the thing. It wasn't supposed to be a secret or public knowledge. We're, by and large, not retailers. There's no real reason for us to know.
We all knew it was coming, so naturally people are anxious to hear the thing sooner rather than later.
But there's the rub. We weren't supposed to know anything. The retailers likely weren't supposed to be posting knowledge about it before today, when they themselves got the "big announcement".
So it's all our fault? Screw that. I cannot choose not to hear rumors just out of loyalty to (y)our corporate masters. Them (or you) going "But you're not supposed to know! You broke the rules!" is idiotic. I won't even dignify your insipid Wikileaks remark with a response.
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Post by: warboss
This pretty much cements it for me. I would have been interested in plugging the last few holes in my armies with lighter resin versions but not at a price increase from the already barely tolerable prices (and only tolerable because other companies have rushed to equal them in recent years). I've got 15,000+ points spread over 4 completely painted armies and that certainly should suffice for a long time. I'll still play the game (so it's not some fanboi rage boycott) but the only new purchases I see in my future for the next couple of years are Dark Angel and Tau codicies if and when they come out. It's a business choice that is 100% theirs to make; unfortunately, it's a decision that tips the scales over to not worth it for what they provide in my personal case. Not to worry guys... I'll still be posting/annoying people here on dakka!
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Post by: Agamemnon2
GW seems to have been successful at plugging the leaks of actual photographs of their releases, but when it comes to things like this Finescale thing, they might as well have been trying to hold back the ocean with a sieve.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Agamemnon2 wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
Because the retailer announcement is not some huge secret thing.
But that's the thing. It wasn't supposed to be a secret or public knowledge. We're, by and large, not retailers. There's no real reason for us to know.
We all knew it was coming, so naturally people are anxious to hear the thing sooner rather than later.
But there's the rub. We weren't supposed to know anything. The retailers likely weren't supposed to be posting knowledge about it before today, when they themselves got the "big announcement".
So it's all our fault? Screw that. I cannot choose not to hear rumors just out of loyalty to (y)our corporate masters. Them (or you) going "But you're not supposed to know! You broke the rules!" is idiotic.
Except they go off schedules that don't give a crap about "the internet nerds know! we have to move everything up!".
I won't even dignify your insipid Wikileaks remark with a response.
Transparency isn't necessary in every facet of every single aspect of our lives.
The Internet community isn't factored in, by and large, by GW. Is that a mistake? Sure.
But there's no reason to piss and moan about it all the time or cry that they somehow "disappointed" you when THERE WAS NO PLANS FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT, TODAY, TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO BEGIN WITH.
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Post by: BrookM
So GW is going to pull a FW..
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Post by: Flashman
I might just about swallow this if the models are better than the metals, but having tried some of the resin stuff from FW, I suspect they won't be.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
GW knows the independent retailers are going to share the announcement they get today with their customers and the gaming community as a whole, so why GW thought it was a good idea to not post the information themselves TODAY on their own website for their end-user retail customer base in order to dispel all the inaccuracies and rumors that abound is a bit mystifying. Unless the next Monday date was dictated by SEC-type requirements and related regulations for publicly traded companies I can't think of why they'd delay another week.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Kanluwen wrote:But there's no reason to piss and moan about it all the time or cry that they somehow "disappointed" you when THERE WAS NO PLANS FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT, TODAY, TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO BEGIN WITH.
You seem awfully sure of yourself speaking for what GW thinks, plans and schedules. To say nothing of the amount of sheer vitriol manifested there. It's unseemly.
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Post by: BrookM
Agamemnon2 wrote:Kanluwen wrote:But there's no reason to piss and moan about it all the time or cry that they somehow "disappointed" you when THERE WAS NO PLANS FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT, TODAY, TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO BEGIN WITH.
You seem awfully sure of yourself speaking for what GW thinks, plans and schedules.
He is their sock puppet, so yeah.
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Post by: Grimtuff
Agamemnon2 wrote:GW seems to have been successful at plugging the leaks of actual photographs of their releases, but when it comes to things like this Finescale thing, they might as well have been trying to hold back the ocean with a sieve.
Give it a couple of weeks after people see those new prices and they'll come to the aftermath of that Earthquake with a dustpan and brush.
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Post by: redeyed
blah why is there always a "bonus" price increase to everything GW does lol :(
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Post by: Daston
Now this explanes something Ordered a few paints and things as well as Dark Eldar charactor Woman (not clued up with the DE names) for my girlfriend to paint.
Now this was ordered around 2 weeks ago now and its still being processed. Wonder if its due to the model being finecaste, although I only paid the same price as the metal...
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Post by: Necros
raising the prices won't do much besides make us complain while we still buy our army men same as always. It's like a crack dealer raising their prices, the addicts will still buy their crack and less of other stuff (or sell more of mom's jewelry). We can say we won't buy, but all they have to do is put out something like a plastic warhound and all the haters will be like "OMG It's such a bargain at $5 less than FW's overly expensive model.. I'm gonna order 3!"
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Post by: ruyn
Necros wrote:raising the prices won't do much besides make us complain while we still buy our army men same as always. It's like a crack dealer raising their prices, the addicts will still buy their crack and less of other stuff (or sell more of mom's jewelry). We can say we won't buy, but all they have to do is put out something like a plastic warhound and all the haters will be like "OMG It's such a bargain at $5 less than FW's overly expensive model.. I'm gonna order 3!"
Yep... The only differences that wargames dealers have over crack dealers is legality and a 1-800 number.
Speaking of which, my dealer's late on an order... I need my fix!
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Post by: insaniak
Agamemnon2 wrote:Slinky wrote:I'll be interested to see side-by-side comparisons of the same models in metal and "finecast" - I wonder if they are sharper in detail, or if "finecast" is just a marketing name with no basis in fact.
I don't see how they could be better, the master models will remain the same.
Different materials produce different results, even in the same mould. The change to white metal from lead resulted in crisper detail on the metal models, even though they were still using the same moulds. Resin potentially offers better detail again, depending on just what sort of compound they're using.
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Post by: mikhaila
Fine Scale = Spin Cast Resin
Supposedly better detail. I'll reserve judgement until I get some to paint up.
US retail stores will be able to get the full line, and at their normal discount. There will however be some allocations early on, as they will have limited amounts of product available. The amount doesn't worry me, as it's sufficient for my store, if I'm buying that allocation on a weekly basis. Large online retailers may have a problem with it as they move more product, but are still just one store and won't be getting a large allocation. GW stores will probably get a decent amount as well as mailorder, so there should be a good chunk of product available.
I don't have a list of prices yet, but I believe the codes available in the US are similar to what's up on Maelstrom.
Release date in the US is the 28th of May. Hard release date, meaning I'll get the stuff wed/thur, but can't sell it until the 28th.
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Post by: Mar
I would hope that the quality is better. Nothing will probably justify the price spike but better quality is at least something. Got to count your eggs when you can.
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Post by: Ouze
If GWS announced their new miniatures were sprinkled in Anthrax spores, Kanluwen would be here arguing about how awesome it is cause he was needing to go to the doctor anyway. If GWS announced that you were only allowed to play with Ultramarines in their stores, he would talk about how only having to use one codex really streamlines rules arguments. If every order from GWS Direct arrived with Jervis himself, kicking you in the junk as hard as he could, Kan would be berating you here for glossing over how good it felt when he stopped kicking you.
When you guys get into debates like this with Kanluwen, at this point in time, you kinda deserve what you damn well know you're going to get: a strenuous reassurance that when GWS pisses on you, it really helps cool you down.
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Post by: DarknessEternal
I will happily pay extra to no longer deal with metal figures.
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Post by: Lorek
If you don't agree with a poster's POV, please express that in a polite way. You can't change how people think and it's against the Dakka rules to insult other posters.
This reminder has been brought to you by Lorek. Thank you.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Ouze wrote:If GWS announced their new miniatures were sprinkled in Anthrax spores, Kanluwen would be here arguing about how awesome it is cause he was needing to go to the doctor anyway. If GWS announced that you were only allowed to play with Ultramarines in their stores, he would talk about how only having to use one codex really streamlines rules arguments. If every order from GWS Direct arrived with Jervis himself, kicking you in the junk as hard as he could, Kan would be berating you here for glossing over how good it felt when he stopped kicking you.
When you guys get into debates like this with Kanluwen, at this point in time, you kinda deserve what you damn well know you're going to get: a strenuous reassurance that when GWS pisses on you, it really helps cool you down.
Kanluwen has been very balanced in his posts in this thread.
You should get off his balls.
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Post by: Worglock
Kanluwen wrote:Agamemnon2 wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
I really don't understand why people expected some kind of huge public announcement. Today was the announcement to retailers.
Because the retailer announcement is not some huge secret thing.
But that's the thing. It wasn't supposed to be a secret or public knowledge. We're, by and large, not retailers. There's no real reason for us to know.
We all knew it was coming, so naturally people are anxious to hear the thing sooner rather than later.
But there's the rub. We weren't supposed to know anything. The retailers likely weren't supposed to be posting knowledge about it before today, when they themselves got the "big announcement".
This is not complex logic, honestly.
No you're right. It's some sense of entitlement where everyone feels every aspect of everything should be transparent. Can't wait for WikiLeaks: GW edition to be called for.
lolwut?
That's what you're going with? Really?
White Knighting GW isn't going to get you a job. It's not even going to get you a pat on the head.
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Post by: Starfarer
Ouze wrote:When you guys get into debates like this with Kanluwen, at this point in time, you kinda deserve what you damn well know you're going to get: a strenuous reassurance that when GWS pisses on you, it really helps cool you down.
Well, while I don't always agree with him, I like having his input. It's nice to have a counterpoint to the endless, and often unreasonable, reactions from folks.
For instance, it has gone from assumption to fact that the resin/plastic blend was cheaper to produce than metal. While this is very likely the case, it hasn't been confirmed by GW as the reason for the switch. Second, while people are freaking out about price hikes, and once again, the threats of leaving the hobby are everywhere, no one so far that I've seen has even bothered to do a comprehensive assessment of which models got a price hike, because not all the models on that list did. The ones that did, for the most part, went up by less than $2 above there previous price. Hardly going to cripple your budget for a one time purchase of a character figure.
Although, none of that is important. What's important is that everyone has another excuse to rant about GW. And if anyone isn't on board with that, let's rant about how ridiculous they are too!
DarknessEternal wrote:I will happily pay extra to no longer deal with metal figures.
I'm right there with you. I can't wait to get the Nurgle Daemon Prince in resin. One of my absolute favorite models, but a pain to assemble and to game with a 1 lb hunk of metal. And while I'd gladly pay more for a resin version, the price stayed the same on this model. 
Now I just hope the Khorne Lord on Juggernaught gets a resin treatment at some point. I have had my eye on that model for ages, but just don't want to deal with a big metal model, so I always put of getting it.
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Post by: Ouze
In other news, have you heard about this Citadel Finecast thing? Someone should make a post in News & Rumors about it
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Post by: Worglock
Kilkrazy wrote:Ouze wrote:If GWS announced their new miniatures were sprinkled in Anthrax spores, Kanluwen would be here arguing about how awesome it is cause he was needing to go to the doctor anyway. If GWS announced that you were only allowed to play with Ultramarines in their stores, he would talk about how only having to use one codex really streamlines rules arguments. If every order from GWS Direct arrived with Jervis himself, kicking you in the junk as hard as he could, Kan would be berating you here for glossing over how good it felt when he stopped kicking you.
When you guys get into debates like this with Kanluwen, at this point in time, you kinda deserve what you damn well know you're going to get: a strenuous reassurance that when GWS pisses on you, it really helps cool you down.
Kanluwen has been very balanced in his posts in this thread.
You should get off his balls.
if by "balanced" you mean "white knighting GW and wording it in a way that's just on the safe edge of 'trolling' like he does in every post he makes" then yes, he's balanced.
But it's pretty obvious his actions are encouraged by the way multiple moderators frequently rush to his defense, so it's off to the ignore list with him.
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Post by: Foo
Could we possibly change this thread's title to include "Citadel Finecast" so we can find it without looking for some random thread about some dude's local shop?
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Post by: Ouze
Second the rename request. Kinda a weird one to consolidate into.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
it's off to the ignore list
It was the constant arguing for argument sake, even when proven to be incorrect, that caused me to take that route. It's nearly impossible to find anything useful in a topic thread once that argument spam starts. And it nearly always starts on any topic of major interest. Ignore List for certain users makes a nice filter when these threads start to sound like "the argument sketch" from Monty Python. Could we possibly change this thread's title to include "Citadel Finecast" so we can find it without looking for some random thread about some dude's local shop?
Agreed, the closed "redundant" thread actually would have been good for a clean start on the specific topic at hand, Finecast.
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Post by: Mar
Indeed the thread is hardly about free metal kits anywhere now!
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Foo wrote:Could we possibly change this thread's title to include "Citadel Finecast" so we can find it without looking for some random thread about some dude's local shop?
BY THE POWER OF 2ND AVENUE CASTLE IT SHALL BE DONE
I would just like to add I called resin=higher prices a while back, resin is harder to work with, needs more man hours and people (esp in the US and UK) are more expensive than metal.
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Post by: Manchu
Okay, that's done.
What's the deal with no Sisters on that list? How does this relate to the WD Sisters dex rumor? Argh!
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Post by: UltraPrime
Manchu wrote:Okay, that's done.
What's the deal with no Sisters on that list? How does this relate to the WD Sisters dex rumor? Argh!
Makes sense. All Sisters models get re-released the month the WD Dex is out.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Ouze wrote:If GWS announced their new miniatures were sprinkled in Anthrax spores, Kanluwen would be here arguing about how awesome it is cause he was needing to go to the doctor anyway. If GWS announced that you were only allowed to play with Ultramarines in their stores, he would talk about how only having to use one codex really streamlines rules arguments. If every order from GWS Direct arrived with Jervis himself, kicking you in the junk as hard as he could, Kan would be berating you here for glossing over how good it felt when he stopped kicking you.
When you guys get into debates like this with Kanluwen, at this point in time, you kinda deserve what you damn well know you're going to get: a strenuous reassurance that when GWS pisses on you, it really helps cool you down.
Uhhuh.
You realize that people are complaining about GW not making an announcement when the original 'rumor' was that Maelstrom would be making an announcement about the shipping and that GW would be making an announcement to retailers regarding 'something big'. If we hadn't had posters 'on the inside' of GW who'd already confirmed that the 'something big' would be a changeover from metal to a 'resinplastic' material--we wouldn't know anything until the retailers had made their announcements today.
This is the kind of thing that could, simply, be fixed with GW making announcements at the same time to both retailers and the public. Likely, they're not interested in doing that so that the retailers can make the announcement and gauge out their customer base--or just so people can get a hint of the fact that 'something is coming'.
Is it stupid that they didn't do it at the same time as they announced it to retailers? Of bloody course it is. But that doesn't mean that people aren't working off flawed perceptions to begin with.
It's Space Hulk all over again, quite frankly. They want to build up anticipation, they've got a 'plan'(kind of) in place for bringing it to the fore--but it's built around the people who regularly check their website, not forums like Dakka or Warseer.
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Post by: Manchu
UltraPrime wrote:Manchu wrote:Okay, that's done.
What's the deal with no Sisters on that list? How does this relate to the WD Sisters dex rumor? Argh!
Makes sense. All Sisters models get re-released the month the WD Dex is out.
 Wat.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Manchu wrote:UltraPrime wrote:Manchu wrote:Okay, that's done.
What's the deal with no Sisters on that list? How does this relate to the WD Sisters dex rumor? Argh!
Makes sense. All Sisters models get re-released the month the WD Dex is out.
Wat.
If I had to guess: the "deal with no Sisters on the list" is because they'd be trying to sell off the remainder of the metal stock before swapping it to limited resin runs.
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Post by: Tek
Well, I don't know about you - but I'm going to email GW and tell them exactly what I think to them jacking their prices up by a fifth after taking on a cheaper material.
I emplore you all to do the same. If enough people make a fuss, it's only a matter of time before a shareholder notices - and they're the ones who'll make the difference.
So, let's do something about it. I am going to tell GW that I will no longer be purchasing their products, and I believe I'm going to stick to it. I shall attempt to buy my models pre-owned (I'm already at the stage where all I buy from GW is models), or from third parties at the very least.
If you want to join me I'd encourage it.
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Post by: Kanluwen
You want to write them a letter. Emails about anything that isn't missing orders go straight into the spam/junk folder.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
I already vote with my dollars. I've pretty much completely stopped buying metal models. The very few I purchased in the last year with one exception were all $15 maximum. I don't pay $20, $22 or more for single figures with what I can get for a bit more in some cases from a multi-part plastic set.
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Post by: Mar
Tek wrote:Well, I don't know about you - but I'm going to email GW and tell them exactly what I think to them jacking their prices up by a fifth after taking on a cheaper material.
I emplore you all to do the same. If enough people make a fuss, it's only a matter of time before a shareholder notices - and they're the ones who'll make the difference.
So, let's do something about it. I am going to tell GW that I will no longer be purchasing their products, and I believe I'm going to stick to it. I shall attempt to buy my models pre-owned (I'm already at the stage where all I buy from GW is models), or from third parties at the very least.
If you want to join me I'd encourage it.
A Mod gave a fair point about the price rise not too long ago that holds merit in my opinion of course, though I do admit GW do like to put their prices up.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Foo wrote:Could we possibly change this thread's title to include "Citadel Finecast" so we can find it without looking for some random thread about some dude's local shop?
BY THE POWER OF 2ND AVENUE CASTLE IT SHALL BE DONE
I would just like to add I called resin=higher prices a while back, resin is harder to work with, needs more man hours and people (esp in the US and UK) are more expensive than metal.
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Post by: Ian Sturrock
Wow. £15.50 for a single Hive Guard mini. So basically nearly £100 just to get the half-dozen minis that are the bare minimum antitank required for a competitive tyranid list -- before you think about troops or HQs. It's almost funny. :(
...and I still only have 3 actual Hive Guard minis, more than a year after the new codex, because of the high cost of the old ones. I'd been proxying with Warriors. Might have to dig out my old Space Hulk genestealer hybrids and make hybrid guard heavy weapon teams as counts-as HG. The only other option is a new job.
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Post by: Cosmic
This is very interesting news. I hold any pre-judgments until next week.
41311
Post by: ashikenshin
Oh hell yes! nurgle prince in resin would rock! too bad I bought the juggernaut chaos champion/lord guy from fantasy. It's a ton of metal for just one dude.
This might make me not think twice about buying ics anymore. Metal sucks!
4042
Post by: Da Boss
Have any of the previous letter writing campaigns or petitions achieved anything? GW don't seem to pay attention to them.
I've begun sourcing my planned bretonnian army idea around historicals. It's cheaper and it's still plastic.
If you are really outraged with their practices, I think the only option is to spend your money elsewhere. In truth, I think they are not much worse than most corporations, I think we just take it worse because the hobby is such a niche and other companies are much better at PR.
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Post by: Manchu
Kanluwen wrote:If I had to guess: the "deal with no Sisters on the list" is because they'd be trying to sell off the remainder of the metal stock before swapping it to limited resin runs.
So you think that every other model on that list is already sold out? Really?
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Post by: Kanluwen
Manchu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:If I had to guess: the "deal with no Sisters on the list" is because they'd be trying to sell off the remainder of the metal stock before swapping it to limited resin runs.
So you think that every other model on that list is already sold out? Really?
Nope.
But there's any number of things that could be going on with Sisters. They could be altering the product codes in preparation for the plastics, they could be part of a 'second wave' of metal->resin for a limited timeframe, or hell--maybe the molds finally have gotten to the point where they can't be replicated after this run.
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Post by: NAVARRO
Kanluwen wrote:It's Space Hulk all over again, quite frankly. They want to build up anticipation, they've got a 'plan'(kind of) in place for bringing it to the fore--but it's built around the people who regularly check their website, not forums like Dakka or Warseer.
I do hope "everything we heard before is lie"
I was wondering something really far tetched, but maybe the prices gauge is because each new box or resin combos has more than one model? or maybe models with more options? I dont see it happening but heck, in this wave of horrible news lets try to keep a bit of hope.
Me personally I think Im going to play 15mm 40k games now! I have been waiting for ground zero games new store update and guess what, they just opened it today, talk about cheap alternatives hey?
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Tek wrote:Well, I don't know about you - but I'm going to email GW and tell them exactly what I think to them jacking their prices up by a fifth after taking on a cheaper material.
Don't.
Write a letter.
On paper.
Sign it with your real name.
Address it to the President of the company.
Be polite, be firm. And if you make threats like 'I quit, I'm selling my armies' etc back them up.
Good luck.
26
Post by: carmachu
Ugh no resin for me. Sucks to try and covert it, metal might be a pain but its actually doable.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
NAVARRO wrote:Kanluwen wrote:It's Space Hulk all over again, quite frankly. They want to build up anticipation, they've got a 'plan'(kind of) in place for bringing it to the fore--but it's built around the people who regularly check their website, not forums like Dakka or Warseer.
I do hope "everything we heard before is lie"
I mean the metal->resinplasticcombihybrid thing was pretty 'confirmed' as of today.
I was wondering something really far tetched, but maybe the prices gauge is because each new box or resin combos has more than one model? or maybe models with more options? I dont see it happening but heck, in this wave of horrible news lets try to keep a bit of hope.
That's kind of what I'm remaining optimistic about.
Me personally I think I'm going to play 15mm 40k games now! I have been waiting for ground zero games new store update and guess what, they just opened it today, talk about cheap alternatives hey?
Me? I'm finishing my Guard and Dark Angels+Empire projects and then probably taking a nice long break from purchasing GW products. I think we need our space.
Plus, I'm kind of broke at the moment.
41311
Post by: ashikenshin
I do hope "everything we heard before is lie"
I was wondering something really far tetched, but maybe the prices gauge is because each new box or resin combos has more than one model? or maybe models with more options? I dont see it happening but heck, in this wave of horrible news lets try to keep a bit of hope.
Me personally I think Im going to play 15mm 40k games now! I have been waiting for ground zero games new store update and guess what, they just opened it today, talk about cheap alternatives hey?
Yeah, I was thinking they might include a couple of options/models in order to excuse the price increase. I'll see the list again to see if there might be some backing to this theory.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Still not happy with using this hijacked thread about a local promo as the official Citedel Finecast thread. But oh well.
1.) Actually GW clearly said to staff, customers and retailers, that they will release a newsletter today for everyone, announcing the big changes concerning the rumoured metal to resin change. GW doesn't trust staff and retailers not to leak, so everyone gets the information at the same time.
2.) Actually, they didn't. They just revealed a name (Citadel Finecast), a release date (28th May) and a new announcement date (23rd May). They didn't even mention the word resin officially, maybe only in a few internal meetings within GW. This was not what GW staff and retailers were told, all expected a full announcement today. Guess Nottingham changed plans.
3.) Instead they officially announced a price hike of most introductory items like Codices, army books, 40k starter, battleforce boxes, paint station and several plastic boxes. Prices also rise in Germany, e.g. all Codices/army books by 3.25 € (including the Tomb King book released just 9 days ago!), Tau Battleforce by 15 €. The GW higher management in Nottingham must really hate this company, hoping that the shareholders and staff will only find out when it's too late (easy when every critic is instantly fired).
4.) I was really curious how they would explain the change from metal to some resin. Something like "Metal has become quite expensive, so we moved to resin to make the miniatures cheaper ... and demand even higher prices than before." Instead they said: "Hi, we have a new miniature line called Citadel Finecast released end of the month. Speaking of finely cast, have a look at this metal Chaos Warrior army."
Guess they are still working on how to explain the change and the price without revealing the truth. Tough job!
Guess the next annual report will reveal degrading revenue inspite 10% price raise, less customers, less sales and less hobby starters. And they will like the result.
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Post by: NAVARRO
carmachu wrote:Ugh no resin for me. Sucks to try and covert it, metal might be a pain but its actually doable.
If its the resin I think, the simple act of just cleaning a mouldline is kind of annoying because you use your xacto blade and it will mess the smothness around the mouldline and if you sand it it will never shine like the other parts and it will look a bit grainy... Hard to explain but the combo resin plastics has good things but also bad things about it... Assuming its the same material Im used to mess with.
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Post by: George Spiggott
Since Forgeworld sell low quality casts of (finely sculpted) resin at extortionate prices, while GW (proper) sell high quality casts of finely sculpted (YMMV) resin at unpleasantly high prices. So how's this going to affect Forgeworld? It's theoretically a double whammy for Forgeworld; unless they use GW (proper's) facilites to up their quality and lower their prices.
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Post by: RiTides
This is what I'm unsure of... will find out soon enough, I'm sure.
(ninja'ed, referring to Navarro)
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Post by: Kroothawk
George Spiggott wrote:So how's this going to affect Forgeworld? It's theoretically a double whammy for Forgeworld; unless they use GW (proper's) facilites to up their quality and lower their prices.
They got a C&D letter from GW, demanding to destroy all moulds 
BTW the resin/plstik seems to be something like the Warmachine stuff, but chemically different. No idea about the practical characteristics.
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Post by: NAVARRO
Kanluwen wrote:]Me? I'm finishing my Guard and Dark Angels+Empire projects and then probably taking a nice long break from purchasing GW products. I think we need our space.
Plus, I'm kind of broke at the moment.
Finishing your GW collections is an investment in the future, if you one day intend to sell them you will be millionaire  ... just look at oop ebay old metal citadel minis, some of those things are sold at crazy prices.
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Post by: BrookM
George Spiggott wrote:Since Forgeworld sell low quality casts of (finely sculpted) resin at extortionate prices, while GW (proper) sell high quality casts of finely sculpted (YMMV) resin at unpleasantly high prices. So how's this going to affect Forgeworld? It's theoretically a double whammy for Forgeworld; unless they use GW (proper's) facilites to up their quality and lower their prices.
Oh woe, if only FW would do that, I'd be their BFF again in no time at all.
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Post by: Grim.Badger
I've been hoping that the resin rumour was true, so this has kind of made my day! There's a few models I've wanted to kitbash but have avoided because it would have meant using metal and plastic and ending up with an unholy top heavy monster! Resin servo harnesses FTW!
Other kits will just plain be easier to assemble.
Kits I'm hoping to see in resin fairly soon - Thunderfire Cannon and Techmarine, Hive Tyrant, Melta and Plasma guns, Vanguard Vets, Ghazghkull etc
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Post by: MIKEtheMERCILESS
As much as I want to bitch... Goddamn. If this resin is anything like plastic, I'm more than happy to pay the premium!!
Simply can't wait to check them out!
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Another price rise... couldn't resist it could you eh, couldn't pass by an opportunity to snatch candy from a small child or tie the laces of a sleeping hobo together.
GW, you're like that blonde tart at the end of Indiana Jones 3, grinning inanely and grasping for the grail of gold whilst you slip down the enormous hole in the ground, still babbling about 'having it all!'
And, ladies and gents, just how long will it be before we read that same old gak in the financial report eh? You remember, when they hiked the plastics to the price of the metals and now... well now it will be the plastics moving to match the price of the resins... I mean the resin/plastics.
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Post by: StarFyre
from the announcement, it sounds like there may be some new models as well...
------
Ah ha, so that's what they've been up to in the Studio. I had wondered why, when I walked in there, people kept hiding models under their desk. From what I've seen of the new miniatures (I accidentally picked one of them up without realising what it was) they look absolutely stunning. So stay tuned, because next Monday you'll all get to find out a whole lot more about them.
-------
Sad to say, with the cost going up, can only hope the USA stores I get stuff from will have the same discounts. But, I would love a resin kroq-gar so it's easier to convert. i guess i can stop trying to mold my own...
Sanjay
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Post by: penek
So.. GW said metal cost more then plastic! GW said We will do resin! and somehow they ended with even more high price then metal ???? wtf is wrong with GW ???
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Post by: Kroothawk
Some more info:
Harry wrote:You know what is funny about that?
It IS a different colour.
(...)
There isn't going to be that much difference between time metal models and resin models made in the same moulds used for metal.
The difference will be seen in the new sculpts which have been sculpted with the new process, new material in mind. There is stuff they can do with this that they couldn't do with metal or plastic.
(...)
MrSatan wrote:Is this saying they ARE new sculpts??
Yes. quite a few.
This is only news here. GW has known about this for quite a while.
The box/blister will include a pic of the painted miniature.
forthegloryofkazadekrund on Warseer created the nice name Citadel Moneycast
Here the official poster posed by Archibald_TK over at Warsee, maybe including new miniaturesr:
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Post by: The Decapitator
With regards to the Sisters and other models not being on that list, it because GW are initially only releasing around 100 lines to kick off the new Finecast material. The good thing about this is that these lines are being repackaged in line with current displays/packaging and put into stores. So your local GW will be rammed full of lots of goodies
Also I did garner this little tidbit of information which I'm honestly not sure how I feel about. It concerns something Kan and other posters were arguing about earlier with regards to if and when GW decide to announce things to retailers and the general public. Basically, GW have decided that starting soon, nobody and that means absolutely nobody, other than the guys who deal with the products etc, will know what is in the pipework or being released until 1 WEEK before it's actual release date. There will no longer be any incoming emails or the like, apparently the first that anyone will know of anything will be on the back page of WD. Which looks like releases will be tied into the same day that WD is released bearing in mind that subscribers get it around a week early.
Now before you all post pictures of salt cellars etc, I shall tell you where I heard this info. Today GW held it's National Managers Meeting at GW HQ in Nottingham, and the source of this was actually present at the meeting. So bearing in mind it came from the head honchos at GW, and was announced to each and every member of GW management from across the country, please refrain from the salt jokes please.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
penek wrote:wtf is wrong with GW ???
It's being run by people with short term vision and enough greed to extinguish a sun.
Perhaps they're the C'tan.
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Post by: Ajroo
Resin models will be easier to model, and not as easily chipped.
A lot of gamers try as hard as possible to avoid the metal figures and will actually be relieved that they are resin even if it is slightly more expensive. As long as the quality doesn't suffer.
I couldn't care less about the price increase, I bet I'm not the only one!
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Post by: Phototoxin
This + price hike +lawsuit + all other gak = death of GW?
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Post by: Sarius
I'm sure it's not as simple as some think and I'm hoping it wont drive too many people out of the hobby, since, for a lot of us it's a hobby we all enjoy.
The price increases are always tough on the wallet, but the cost of living is higher today than it was 5 or 10 years ago so all companies have to try and keep up. No doubt that what GW wants is profit, and price increases could offer that.
Whether the resin is cheaper or not, it wouldn't make sense for them to "reduce" prices no-matter what. If they remained the same, that would probably have been the best decision, keeping their profits and keeping the customers happy.
They will explain that the cost to get the new equipment, or changes, or this and that does justify the price increase, plus we'd be paying for better "quality". But I can't help but feel if they just kept the prices at the rate they are now, if they would make a profit at that rate, it'd help both them and their customers.
I do want to see what they produce, and I'm kind of disappointed with the announcement on the website, although I didn't know there was going to be any at all, I'd rather them just have waited until next monday and come out with it all.
Only time will tell how this changes things for both them and us.
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Post by: xxvaderxx
It could be that i am just THAT plain stupid, but switching from an "expensive" system, to a MORE expensive one to REDUCE cost, just does not add up.
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Post by: The Decapitator
Also I'm wondering what the 4th Dark Eldar model is on the right of the Succubus.
A Haemonculus??
There's a couple of interesting pics I can't make out, plus the 'Classified' spaces are basically saying there will be new moulds coming in Finecast.
Sweet as a nut
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Sarius wrote:
Whether the resin is cheaper or not, it wouldn't make sense for them to "reduce" prices no-matter what.
Why?
Reduced costs with a message that 'we're doing you all a favour and you can bank on these prices going up in the future' would have seen a rampage of people buying up as much as possible. It would have paid for any equipment changes and given some much needed good will to the company.
Instead we have the same old same old, someone send Kirby and co a set of top hats and twirly moustaches.
19805
Post by: automatonsleuth
The Decapitator wrote:Also I'm wondering what the 4th Dark Eldar model is on the right of the Succubus.
A Haemonculus??
There's a couple of interesting pics I can't make out, plus the 'Classified' spaces are basically saying there will be new moulds coming in Finecast.
Sweet as a nut
The skin and hair colour reminds me of the mandrakes,which suggests Khedaruhk (sp) the Decapitator, although the gubbins he's holding are more reminiscent of a haemonculus.
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Post by: Kroothawk
The Decapitator wrote:Also I'm wondering what the 4th Dark Eldar model is on the right of the Succubus.
A Haemonculus??
We are discussing this in the Dark Eldar thread. First I thought it is just the Harlequin Troupe Master, but now I think it is indeed a Haemunculus with 4 arms, although very similar to the Troupe Master.
Also included are the two missing Tomb Lord characters (Nectotect and Scarab Prince).
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Post by: Just Dave
The Decapitator wrote:With regards to the Sisters and other models not being on that list, it because GW are initially only releasing around 100 lines to kick off the new Finecast material. The good thing about this is that these lines are being repackaged in line with current displays/packaging and put into stores. So your local GW will be rammed full of lots of goodies
Also I did garner this little tidbit of information which I'm honestly not sure how I feel about. It concerns something Kan and other posters were arguing about earlier with regards to if and when GW decide to announce things to retailers and the general public. Basically, GW have decided that starting soon, nobody and that means absolutely nobody, other than the guys who deal with the products etc, will know what is in the pipework or being released until 1 WEEK before it's actual release date. There will no longer be any incoming emails or the like, apparently the first that anyone will know of anything will be on the back page of WD. Which looks like releases will be tied into the same day that WD is released bearing in mind that subscribers get it around a week early.
Now before you all post pictures of salt cellars etc, I shall tell you where I heard this info. Today GW held it's National Managers Meeting at GW HQ in Nottingham, and the source of this was actually present at the meeting. So bearing in mind it came from the head honchos at GW, and was announced to each and every member of GW management from across the country, please refrain from the salt jokes please.
Interesting... And not in a good way.
This might warrant a thread or discussion of its own?
43532
Post by: Sarius
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Reduced costs with a message that 'we're doing you all a favour and you can bank on these prices going up in the future' would have seen a rampage of people buying up as much as possible. It would have paid for any equipment changes and given some much needed good will to the company.
Well that proved me wrong, didn't think of it like that.
However if they did reduce prices, people would complain who just bought the metal models last week or whatnot, there's problems whatever they do and people will complain no matter what.
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Post by: JOHIRA
Necros wrote:raising the prices won't do much besides make us complain while we still buy our army men same as always. It's like a crack dealer raising their prices, the addicts will still buy their crack and less of other stuff (or sell more of mom's jewelry). We can say we won't buy, but all they have to do is put out something like a plastic warhound and all the haters will be like "OMG It's such a bargain at $5 less than FW's overly expensive model.. I'm gonna order 3!"
Speak for yourself. I haven't bought a GW model in probably a year. I'll be looking to buy some miniatures from someone in the near future though. This would have been the perfect time for GW to try to lure me back in, and instead they're doing their damndest to keep me turned away.
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Post by: Just Dave
Sarius wrote:people will complain no matter what.
I completely agree. However, there's a significant difference between complaining and justified complaining...
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Post by: LavuranGuard
Manchu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:If I had to guess: the "deal with no Sisters on the list" is because they'd be trying to sell off the remainder of the metal stock before swapping it to limited resin runs.
So you think that every other model on that list is already sold out? Really?
Spoke to the guys in my local GW at the weekend, and all they restock orders have included lots of wierd blisters (often older packaging) that weren't requested (Krootoxes, Catachan snipers etc)
It would seem the old metal stock is being sent out to the stores to get it sold off so it's possible all the old stock is now on the shelves of the GW stores around the world.
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Post by: Scottywan82
Best part is:
They're keeping the Avatar model.
Wow.
26
Post by: carmachu
Ajroo wrote:Resin models will be easier to model, and not as easily chipped.
No they're not. Not even remotely. Metal, wile tough, is harder to screw up then resin.
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Post by: Lord Scythican
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:As much as I want to bitch... Goddamn. If this resin is anything like plastic, I'm more than happy to pay the premium!!
Simply can't wait to check them out!
Same here. I already plan on buying another Archon if he is made and put up some comparison pics.
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Post by: risewiththefallen
Firstly how much more are the models?? secondly no new models just old ones turned to resin????
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Post by: Thorgut
The sad thing is, had the prices dropped at all, I'd be more than happy to spend my money on some lovely new resin.
However raising the price even further has just put me right off. I know it's working for GW so who am I to complain? 
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Post by: Mar
Putting prices down I just never saw coming a don't think that has ever happened. I have not used resin so I can't say its better but if it is a improvement then its not a complete failure. Like a Mod said earlier they may be using the same processes but it will cost to switch to resin and to get the right equipment/training and what not and I think they also said it is not a small workforce to due this in at least the UK and US.
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Post by: Eilif
Wow, a switch to resin and a higher price.
I was ambivalent about the switch to resin, and even thought that maybe a reduced price (yep, I'm gullible and incurrably optimistic) would mean that I might buy a few more GW models. As it is, I'll probably stick to the path I've been on for the past couple years of one or two new GW models a year, some used, and only to suplement the armies I already have.
Sorry GW, you just haven't done enough to win me back.
On the other side of things, perhaps a few folks will dump out the kool-aid, jump off the GW bandwagon, and my non-GW gaming goup will grow a bit.
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Post by: Ajroo
carmachu wrote:Ajroo wrote:Resin models will be easier to model, and not as easily chipped.
No they're not. Not even remotely. Metal, wile tough, is harder to screw up then resin.
I have resin FW stuff, and it is just better IMO. It is lighter, and doesnt have the balancing issues the metal ones do, its so annoying when a model just wont sit on a hill properly.
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Post by: Happygrunt
Can someone link me to this price raise announcement? Because I am staring at the article and cant see anything about a price increase.
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Post by: TBD
So what does this now mean for mail order only metal models not on any of those lists?
I still want to mail order Vulkan. Is he still available or not (in metal, or at all for the time being)?
If there really is such a rediculous and unreasonable price raise on the "new" stuff I'm simply not going to buy any of it. This is where I would draw the line as far as that goes.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Happygrunt wrote:Can someone link me to this price raise announcement? Because I am staring at the article and cant see anything about a price increase.
This official announcement was on Citadel Finecast only.
The other announcement was to retailers and reposted on page one and two of this thread.
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Post by: Mr.Church13
Still with the Children's sized Eldar Avatar....Blarg! That's really my only issue I suspected they'd raise prices and I use resin all the time so no other complaints from this guy.
(Btw, I really do want the big FW one but no one will let me use it locally. They claim the base size isn't "fair".)
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Post by: Happygrunt
It might be just me, but I think that second CLASSIFIED Icon next to the Hamey might be another DE character.
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Post by: carmachu
Ajroo wrote:carmachu wrote:Ajroo wrote:Resin models will be easier to model, and not as easily chipped.
No they're not. Not even remotely. Metal, wile tough, is harder to screw up then resin.
I have resin FW stuff, and it is just better IMO. It is lighter, and doesnt have the balancing issues the metal ones do, its so annoying when a model just wont sit on a hill properly.
So what? Thats a terrain problem, not a metal/resin one. Resin sucks for conversion purposes. Metal, while not easy, once you know what yoru doing works well. I love metal for conversions.,
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
The fact that the prices are going up for these models is just simply delicious in just hold bold-faced it is. Something done as a cost cutting measure results in prices going up for their customers. I can’t wait for them to use this to justify a price rise on, say, the paint range.
I mean, where’s the log in this:
1. Metal prices are too high.
2. Make models in resin to cut costs.
3. Raise prices for these new resin models.
4. ???
5. Profit!
What?
GW has nothing but contempt for us all. Abandon them.
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Post by: carmachu
H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW has nothing but contempt for us all. Abandon them.
Dude your just discovering that they have contempt for us? They had it back in the 90's. Its no different now. I'll just keep picking up used models or trading for stuff. No need to buy new.
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Post by: The Decapitator
Looking again at the Dark Eldar model to the right of the Succubus. I'm pretty sure it is The Decapitator after all, although the model doesn't look like the artwork or what I'd pictured in my head. The hair is White and the body dark like the Mandrakes, and on close inspection it looks like it's holding somethings in it's hands, probably heads hence The Decapitator
Oh I hope so.....
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Post by: Cerebrium
HMBC, all I've -ever- seen you post is bile towards GW. Surely if they had as much contempt as you claim, you'd just...ignore them? Maybe even stop bothering yourself with a forum focused very heavily on their products?
I'm just getting VERY sick of your constant preaching on a soapbox built out of the very thing you're condemning.
33910
Post by: Ajroo
carmachu wrote:Ajroo wrote:carmachu wrote:Ajroo wrote:Resin models will be easier to model, and not as easily chipped.
No they're not. Not even remotely. Metal, wile tough, is harder to screw up then resin.
I have resin FW stuff, and it is just better IMO. It is lighter, and doesnt have the balancing issues the metal ones do, its so annoying when a model just wont sit on a hill properly.
So what? Thats a terrain problem, not a metal/resin one. Resin sucks for conversion purposes. Metal, while not easy, once you know what yoru doing works well. I love metal for conversions.,
No its not, if its on a slight hill (as all GW boards have) and it falls over because of the weight of the model, it will chip the paint. then its a disadvantage over plastic/resin. Thats what.
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Post by: gorgon
The Decapitator wrote: Basically, GW have decided that starting soon, nobody and that means absolutely nobody, other than the guys who deal with the products etc, will know what is in the pipework or being released until 1 WEEK before it's actual release date. There will no longer be any incoming emails or the like, apparently the first that anyone will know of anything will be on the back page of WD. Which looks like releases will be tied into the same day that WD is released bearing in mind that subscribers get it around a week early.
So basically GW is trying to invent a time machine to take them back to 1993.
Now if they could just get this pesky "information superhighway" thing shut down...
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
ANOTHER price increase? Gah!
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Cerebrium wrote:HMBC, all I've -ever- seen you post is bile towards GW. Surely if they had as much contempt as you claim, you'd just...ignore them? Maybe even stop bothering yourself with a forum focused very heavily on their products?
I'm just getting VERY sick of your constant preaching on a soapbox built out of the very thing you're condemning.
Do try to keep up.
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Then why the hell do you hang about here? If you do want them to fail so much, why bother even paying attention to anything they do?
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
You two..mind taking this spat into private?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I don't even know who this guy is. He clearly didn't read anything I wrote, so he can storm in a teacup at me as much as he likes.
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Post by: Lithophile
So instead of complaining about GW raising prices to please shareholders, why don't we all just buy some GW shares?
Problem solved! Price rise ahoy!
33586
Post by: Cerebrium
Lithophile wrote:So instead of complaining about GW raising prices to please shareholders, why don't we all just buy some GW shares?
Problem solved! Price rise ahoy!
I could see GW's thinking here. "Wait, we put the prices up and shares went up. KEEP PUTTING THE PRICES UP!"
34906
Post by: Pacific
Well, it looks like GW is trying to do the old 'quick one-two' (usually carried out by politicians) where you hide a bad piece of news ( EU based retailers not being allowed to sell outside of the EU) with a good piece of news (er.. the switch to resin). On this latter point, I will withhold judgement until I have a miniature in my hand, but to me it sounds just like '2+2=5'.
I problem with all of this is the 'cancer' that lies at the heart of the company now. I advise everyone to read this very informative blogpost:
http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/help-kirby-is-eating-our-hobby.html
The point is, as made in the blog post I linked above, that the few people at the heart of the company, and running it, have sweet f-all interest in actually the hobby itself. So for all of the cost cutting measures, the cutting of staff and massive price hike of units, then tailoring of rules to sell more of those kits, the things which are most complained about by the gaming community, what is done with that additional profit? It's used for a dividend payment, so the shareholders, and more importantly Mr. Kirby, can get a nice big lump of money in their pocket.
And in the meantime the hundreds of thousands of people, if not more, who enjoy the hobby around the world get a worse experience. The situation when I was working at the company, many years ago, where the heads of the company are surrounded for the most part just sycophantic 'yes men' means that you get bs decisions, and they try and turn it around as if it's somehow going to be a good thing and a benefit to the hobbyist, doesn't seem to have changed. Again, with the caveat that they have developed some new form of resin which bypasses the health and safety issues of that currently in use by other companies, switching to resin is an unbelievably daft decision and has the potential to ruin the company. In terms of pure idiocy, it surely ranks up there with the '1 man store', which seeks to reduce the number of newcomers into the hobby even as the company does everything it seemingly can to alienate it's long term fans. In other news, this is currently being attempted with an entire hemisphere.
GW has been an important and enjoyable part of my life, but that doesn't mean I have to just shrug my shoulders at each ill-advised new policy that comes out. It's painful to see something you feel an emotional attachment towards (and how can it be any other way when you have invested so much time in it?) when it's having its face driven into the dirt.
Sorry that this sounds like such a dreadfully rantish post. I've tried so hard to defend GW and it's decision making over the years, as anyone who knows my posting from other boards will attest to. But, it's the stark realisation that those in charge of the company are not only reading from a different page, but they have just thrown the book away, that I think is generating so much bad blood over the recent announcements.
Certainly, I was going to order a box of orc boys this morning, but had a sick feeling in my stomach as I added it to the shopping basket. I am sure I will not be alone in this regard.
6515
Post by: Starfarer
Lithophile wrote:So instead of complaining about GW raising prices to please shareholders, why don't we all just buy some GW shares?
Problem solved! Price rise ahoy!
Because it's alot easier for people to complain on a forum than even do something as easy as backing of their claims of leaving the hobby, let alone put their money down to profit off of GWs business practices. I've only ever seen a few people online claim to be investors in GW, and who would guess, they were happy with GW's business decisions. It made them money.
In the end they are a business like any other and don't owe customers nearly as much as alot of people would like to think. They sell a product, support the product and provide services for their product. What they choose to release and sell, when they choose to do it and how much they choose to charge for it is entirely at their discretion. It amazes me that because people buy a product they are owed some explanation for every decision GW makes henceforth. It's really pretty funny when you think about it.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go email BMW and tell them I won't be supporting them any more because their prices are preventing me from purchasing as many of their products as I'd like.
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Post by: Worglock
Cadaver wrote:Lithophile wrote:So instead of complaining about GW raising prices to please shareholders, why don't we all just buy some GW shares?
Problem solved! Price rise ahoy!
Because it's alot easier for people to complain on a forum than even do something as easy as backing of their claims of leaving the hobby, let alone put their money down to profit off of GWs business practices. I've only ever seen a few people online claim to be investors in GW, and who would guess, they were happy with GW's business decisions. It made them money.
In the end they are a business like any other and don't owe customers nearly as much as alot of people would like to think. They sell a product, support the product and provide services for their product. What they choose to release and sell, when they choose to do it and how much they choose to charge for it is entirely at their discretion. It amazes me that because people buy a product they are owed some explanation for every decision GW makes henceforth. It's really pretty funny when you think about it.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go email BMW and tell them I won't be supporting them any more because their prices are preventing me from purchasing as many of their products as I'd like.
Considering I've bought one model and 3 cans of primer this year total. I'm not sure your statement is entirely true.
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Post by: Foo
Kanluwen wrote:You want to write them a letter. Emails about anything that isn't missing orders go straight into the spam/junk folder.
That's not entirely true. I emailed them once about a pricing issue and received a very nice and polite email asking me to phone their customer support line.
So, really, phone them and complain. A lot.
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Post by: DAWARBOSS
Everybody saying that they want to leave the hobby, It wont affect GW. If they made the price lower, that means that they will get less profit, than if they increased the price, no-matter how many people leave Warhammer 40k. You see, there will still be people that will by these 'finecast' miniatures. And the money they spend will cover for the money lost from you quitting.
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Post by: Worglock
DAWARBOSS wrote:Everybody saying that they want to leave the hobby, It wont affect GW. If they made the price lower, that means that they will get less profit, than if they increased the price, no-matter how many people leave Warhammer 40k. You see, there will still be people that will by these 'finecast' miniatures. And the money they spend will cover for the money lost from you quitting.
I've never said such a thing. You fail at dramatic hyperbole. It does affect GW. You fail at reading financial reports. No I probably won't buy any of these "finecast" miniatures. You fail at dictating to others what they're going to do. And the money others spend may or may not cover anyone that quits. And if it does, that doesn't leave GW at better than breaking even. You fail at economics.
Please. Stop failing.
39917
Post by: DAWARBOSS
Worglock wrote:DAWARBOSS wrote:Everybody saying that they want to leave the hobby, It wont affect GW. If they made the price lower, that means that they will get less profit, than if they increased the price, no-matter how many people leave Warhammer 40k. You see, there will still be people that will by these 'finecast' miniatures. And the money they spend will cover for the money lost from you quitting.
I've never said such a thing. You fail at dramatic hyperbole. It does affect GW. You fail at reading financial reports. No I probably won't buy any of these "finecast" miniatures. You fail at dictating to others what they're going to do. And the money others spend may or may not cover anyone that quits. And if it does, that doesn't leave GW at better than breaking even. You fail at economics.
Please. Stop failing.
In all due respect,
I never said you said that you will leave 40k. i was never trying to achieve a dramatic hyperbole. I have never read a financial report. I never said you'll buy these 'Finecast' minatures, But its obvious people will buy finecast, including me if I must. I never was attempting to dictate anybody. And GW has a short term financial plan, they will make money, and lots of it too. And the reason I fail at economics is because Im fifteen, no economics in grade 9, although it makes sense to me GW is doing this for a reason, and the reason is not because they like to see a bunch of people sit at their computers all day and complain on forums, the reason is to make money.
And dude, I'll try to stop failing , although life is pretty sweet to me right now as I have just moved up a grade (I guess I'll get those economic classes you say I fail at), got my book published and got my school into the high school international rowing championship of the year. I apologise to anybody who had to read this entire load of ranting by me that was all off-topic, Just had to make sure this guy got the message, in all due respect.
Anyway, are the finecast going to be made of resin entirely, or some plastic and resin hybrid?
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Post by: Starfarer
Worglock wrote:Considering I've bought one model and 3 cans of primer this year total. I'm not sure your statement is entirely true.
It's not true for you, sure. And frankly not me either. I haven't played 40k in several years. I do play Specialist Games frequently, and for the most part that means getting stuff on ebay. But the vast majority of people who post do spend plenty, and complain plenty about prices. They post rants with a sense of entitlement like GW owes them something.
I think this blog post by Neil Gaiman is particularly apt. Granted it is regarding authors, but I think the point applies equally to any creator.
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html
My point is, everyone is complaining about a minimal price increase for some of the metal models. Not everything got a price increase, but no one actually bothers to check that. They go off of forum posts rather than checking for themselves. They take other people's speculation for the reason GW is switching to resin as if it were actual quotes from GW, and then hold GW to statements made by forum-goers. It's fine to be critical, and it's fine to have strong opinions. Afterall, people wouldn't be upset if this hobby didn't mean alot to them. But It's ridiculous to be upset when you don't even bother fact check what you are complaining about. It's ridiculous to hold GW accountable for what some dude posts on the internet in a rumors forum. It's like when people complain about an army release being pushed back by GW when it was never announced officially in the first place.
Games Workshop is not your bitch. They are not my bitch. If people can't accept how they run their business, then they and I are free to no longer support them. The difference is, when I choose to no longer support a company, I don't continue to frequent their fan forums complaining about each and every future decision they make. I move on with my life.
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Post by: SagesStone
Lithophile wrote:So instead of complaining about GW raising prices to please shareholders, why don't we all just buy some GW shares?
Problem solved! Price rise ahoy!
No, not really all it will do is inject funds into the company so they can continue doing what they do. We'd probably need to get to the magic number of 51% and quite frankly by the time you get there you've probably ended helping them out a fair bit and all they'd need to do is continue producing new shares to stop you from ever reaching the majority. Sure it's a stupid idea to just keep throwing out shares like that, but I think they've proven they have no short supply of stupidity; in fact it's probably one of the key ingredients of the new Finecast system.
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Post by: Laughing God
Lots of people flame waring eachother on this thread... quite amusing.
Resin means easier conversions, bring em on
99
Post by: insaniak
Lithophile wrote:So instead of complaining about GW raising prices to please shareholders, why don't we all just buy some GW shares?
It would take an awful lot of us, buying an awful lot of shares, to actually reach a point where our opinions would count for any more than they do right now.
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Post by: Worglock
Cadaver wrote:Worglock wrote:Considering I've bought one model and 3 cans of primer this year total. I'm not sure your statement is entirely true.
It's not true for you, sure. And frankly not me either. I haven't played 40k in several years. I do play Specialist Games frequently, and for the most part that means getting stuff on ebay. But the vast majority of people who post do spend plenty, and complain plenty about prices. They post rants with a sense of entitlement like GW owes them something.
I think this blog post by Neil Gaiman is particularly apt. Granted it is regarding authors, but I think the point applies equally to any creator.
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html
My point is, everyone is complaining about a minimal price increase for some of the metal models. Not everything got a price increase, but no one actually bothers to check that. They go off of forum posts rather than checking for themselves. They take other people's speculation for the reason GW is switching to resin as if it were actual quotes from GW, and then hold GW to statements made by forum-goers. It's fine to be critical, and it's fine to have strong opinions. Afterall, people wouldn't be upset if this hobby didn't mean alot to them. But It's ridiculous to be upset when you don't even bother fact check what you are complaining about. It's ridiculous to hold GW accountable for what some dude posts on the internet in a rumors forum. It's like when people complain about an army release being pushed back by GW when it was never announced officially in the first place.
Games Workshop is not your bitch. They are not my bitch. If people can't accept how they run their business, then they and I are free to no longer support them. The difference is, when I choose to no longer support a company, I don't continue to frequent their fan forums complaining about each and every future decision they make. I move on with my life.
You do realize there's a price increase coming for plastics too right? Like Grave Guard going from $33 to 41.25 (US) right? You do realize that's an almost 25% price increase right? If you went and did some "fact checking". you'd realize that it's a bit more than "some metal models".
Also: you mad? You sound mad.
Also more: Since you no longer support GW (by your own admission, having not played 40K in several years and only being involved n Specialist Games infrequently). Why are you here?
also lots: Neil who? Oh him, the guy that hasn't had a good book in awhile.
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Post by: Cryonicleech
Worglock wrote:
Also more: Since you no longer support GW (by your own admission, having not played 40K in several years and only being involved n Specialist Games infrequently). Why are you here?
But... if you don't support them... why are you here?
9010
Post by: Rymafyr
H.B.M.C. wrote:Cerebrium wrote:HMBC, all I've -ever- seen you post is bile towards GW. Surely if they had as much contempt as you claim, you'd just...ignore them? Maybe even stop bothering yourself with a forum focused very heavily on their products?
I'm just getting VERY sick of your constant preaching on a soapbox built out of the very thing you're condemning.
Do try to keep up.
I happen to share that sentiment H.B.M.C. That's why they get none of my money. For the others: Why do I still play? I do enjoy the game with the few people left near me that still play. Why do I peruse DakkaDakka? Because despite the majority of the site being dedicated to GW product, I find the painting and modeling skill/talent of other wargammers' astounding. Is there a little part of me hoping GW will change, sure...but I'm not holding my breath. I'll likely return to 40k once GW goes belly up and the IP is sold off to a reputable gaming company that not only cares about the IP but about the people it will be marketing that IP to.
The change over from metal to resin? I really don't give a rat's hairy @$$ anymore what GW does. The price increases associated with it? That's just plain theft. The funny thing is...it's consensual theft...if you buy their stuff.
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Post by: Pacific
Cadaver wrote:
Games Workshop is not your bitch. They are not my bitch. If people can't accept how they run their business, then they and I are free to no longer support them. The difference is, when I choose to no longer support a company, I don't continue to frequent their fan forums complaining about each and every future decision they make. I move on with my life.
First of all, I admire you sticking to your opinions in the face of a landslide of contrary comments (regardless of whether I disagree or not).
Regarding your post, I don't think it's so easy to let go of something that you have spent a considerable amount of time and monetary investment in. I think that's the main beef people have - they have loved (or at least felt strongly about!) GW in the past, and to see the company being driven into the ground is painful.
The point is that the decisions being made now are running in the opposite direction of catering for the hobbyist, and done entirely at the behest of the shareholders. Saying 'they are a business they have to make money' is a fallacy - there are differing degrees of profit orientation, it shouldn't simply be a black and white picture of either making 100% profit, or being a joke in a business sense and the business folding. There are shades of grey in between, and it should be possible for GW to survive as a company while still giving people what they want.
Last year they made a sequence of generally unpopular decisions. The cutting of stores down to 1 man, the cutting of the development teams, the usual price hike. And what did they do with that money? A new marketing strategy, or some exciting new development? No, the money was instead used and given away as dividends for the shareholders. Most importantly, a certain Mr. Tom Kirby, who owns 6% of the company, pocketed a neat $600,000 as a result of that dividend payment. No doubt he will retire with a nice golden-handshake on the way out (he is 60 years old) and the company will be left in ruin behind him, having had all of it's development and growth cut back just to generate short term profits.
40741
Post by: Worglock
Cryonicleech wrote:Worglock wrote:
Also more: Since you no longer support GW (by your own admission, having not played 40K in several years and only being involved n Specialist Games infrequently). Why are you here?
But... if you don't support them... why are you here?
Um. lolwut? I paint at my local GW store 2+ times a week. I've also (repeatedly) stated that while I don't particularly care for these last few things that they've done, those things don't affect me. MY current spending moratorium is due to family issues not GW issues. I've complimented GW on the things I've felt are good (like the news models) and let them have it on the things I've felt are bad.
It would do you well to realize that there is actually more to this than "The company White Knights" and "The guys that want to see GW burn". And yes, I realize you're trying to push a narrative and silence a voice that you don't agree with because this is the internet and it's like Sparta with words, but you should really try and not be bad at it.
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Post by: dariakus
The point is that the decisions being made now are running in the opposite direction of catering for the hobbyist, and done entirely at the behest of the shareholders. Saying 'they are a business they have to make money' is a fallacy - there are differing degrees of profit orientation, it shouldn't simply be a black and white picture of either making 100% profit, or being a joke in a business sense and the business folding. There are shades of grey in between, and it should be possible for GW to survive as a company while still giving people what they want.
Last year they made a sequence of generally unpopular decisions. The cutting of stores down to 1 man, the cutting of the development teams, the usual price hike. And what did they do with that money? A new marketing strategy, or some exciting new development? No, the money was instead used and given away as dividends for the shareholders. Most importantly, a certain Mr. Tom Kirby, who owns 6% of the company, pocketed a neat $600,000 as a result of that dividend payment. No doubt he will retire with a nice golden-handshake on the way out (he is 60 years old) and the company will be left in ruin behind him, having had all of it's development and growth cut back just to generate short term profits.
What's wrong with this, however, is that unless the people running the company *do not care about it*, then they will realize quite quickly that what's best for the company and the shareholders *is* what's best for the consumer. You can't alienate your customer base and grow a company. Economics don't work that way. Alienate your customers, sell less product, end up with lower earnings. GW's financials, however, fly in the face of the claim that they're alienating their customers, as they're up again. What does this mean? It means they're probably doing what's right for the company--and the consumer--and we're just a small, but vocal group. Am I happy about the upcoming price hikes? No. But honestly? Food and gas prices have risen *orders of magnitude* faster than toy soldiers over the last few years. And despite what some people may think about the standard GW employee, they've got to eat and sleep just like the rest of us.
40741
Post by: Worglock
dariakus wrote:
The point is that the decisions being made now are running in the opposite direction of catering for the hobbyist, and done entirely at the behest of the shareholders. Saying 'they are a business they have to make money' is a fallacy - there are differing degrees of profit orientation, it shouldn't simply be a black and white picture of either making 100% profit, or being a joke in a business sense and the business folding. There are shades of grey in between, and it should be possible for GW to survive as a company while still giving people what they want.
Last year they made a sequence of generally unpopular decisions. The cutting of stores down to 1 man, the cutting of the development teams, the usual price hike. And what did they do with that money? A new marketing strategy, or some exciting new development? No, the money was instead used and given away as dividends for the shareholders. Most importantly, a certain Mr. Tom Kirby, who owns 6% of the company, pocketed a neat $600,000 as a result of that dividend payment. No doubt he will retire with a nice golden-handshake on the way out (he is 60 years old) and the company will be left in ruin behind him, having had all of it's development and growth cut back just to generate short term profits.
What's wrong with this, however, is that unless the people running the company *do not care about it*, then they will realize quite quickly that what's best for the company and the shareholders *is* what's best for the consumer. You can't alienate your customer base and grow a company. Economics don't work that way. Alienate your customers, sell less product, end up with lower earnings.
GW's financials, however, fly in the face of the claim that they're alienating their customers, as they're up again. What does this mean? It means they're probably doing what's right for the company--and the consumer--and we're just a small, but vocal group. Am I happy about the upcoming price hikes? No. But honestly? Food and gas prices have risen *orders of magnitude* faster than toy soldiers over the last few years. And despite what some people may think about the standard GW employee, they've got to eat and sleep just like the rest of us.
They've made money on licensing and in currency shifts, but the core business has been stagnant for several years.
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Post by: dariakus
Is there a link to their financials anywhere? As a public company, there should be pretty detailed reports every quarter. The main website seems to be down, but they may not be listed there. I want to give them a more thorough look. Ah, found it: http://investor.games-workshop.com/ I'll be reading for a bit.
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Post by: Cryonicleech
Worglock wrote:And yes, I realize you're trying to push a narrative and silence a voice that you don't agree with because this is the internet and it's like Sparta with words, but you should really try and not be bad at it.
But... I haven't disagreed with you. It just seemed like you didn't really support GW if you haven't bought a lot. Sorry if I misinterpreted that, but I've hardly done anything inflammatory. You need to relax, not every poster here is out to get you, I actually agree with you on some points.
40896
Post by: dariakus
Okay, so in the January '11 interim report, licensing profits were only 550k out of a total profit of 24,505k. This covers the period from 5/2010 - 11/2010.
Licensing wasn't a huge part of their bottom line at all. It's barely 2%. And that was down from the previous year, when it was nearly 1,000k.
Compared to the same 6 month period last year, however, sales are stagnant, and costs are up on the operations side of things, as their profits for the same 6 month period are way down.
21593
Post by: DiscoVader
The problem that I have at the moment is less the fact that there's yet another price hike, but the fact that there's quite a few business decisions being made at the same time that are just simply bad, bad, bad.
Price hike? Ok, whatever. It's annoying, but still, we can live with it to a certain extent. We know they do it all the time, so we'll just have to grit our hobbyist teeth and bear it for now.
Changing to resin? Cool! Easier conversions. Except that it's being done alongside a second price hike on all of those models that are being converted from metal, on top of the first price hike on the rest of the range that isn't resin. Ok, well, that sucks, but maybe it'll go down after a bit once they sell enough (wishful thinking, but one can hope. Maybe.)
And then there's the cutting off of Maelstrom and other UK-based stores shipping outside the EU. That, to me, is the biggest offense out of all of this, and the one that actually makes me stop and say, "This has gotten out of hand." By severing the ability for UK based discount sites to sell outside the UK/EU, they've killed off a cheap and viable way for gamers to get the miniatures they want at a decent enough price. That, combined with the years-ago decision to kill the ability of using shopping carts at online stores that sell their products, is a smack in the face of the consumer. Say what you will about them doing what's right for the company, but in this case it most certainly does not mean that they are doing the right thing for the consumer. When was the last time you heard of a sale at a Games Workshop store, or on their website? The last time they've given their customers any reason to stay loyal to them? They've done nothing but say, "Thanks for being a loyal customer! In fact, you're so loyal, we'll make sure you pay even more for your minis, and have a more difficult time getting them as well!"
Do they have costs they need to use the money for? Of course. Is their research and development that needs to be payed for when it comes to new minis and rules? Absolutely. But that doesn't remove the fact that they're treating their customers as supremely disposable, when the truth is that in this economic environment, they are the exact opposite. Do everything you can to lure them in and keep them, not drive them away and prevent them from ever getting your products. Which is exactly what they're doing, and it boggles the mind.
6515
Post by: Starfarer
Worglock wrote:You do realize there's a price increase coming for plastics too right? Like Grave Guard going from $33 to 41.25 (US) right? You do realize that's an almost 25% price increase right? If you went and did some "fact checking". you'd realize that it's a bit more than "some metal models".
Also: you mad? You sound mad.
Also more: Since you no longer support GW (by your own admission, having not played 40K in several years and only being involved n Specialist Games infrequently). Why are you here?
also lots: Neil who? Oh him, the guy that hasn't had a good book in awhile.
I'm not aware of a price increase for one fantasy kit, no. I don't play fantasy and it's not relevant to me or this thread. The pricing I referenced is directly related to this thread and most increases were $2-3 more for character models most people would only need one of, a lot more had no increase in price at all. Not exactly a budget shattering increase.
No, I'm not mad at all. It's called a discussion. I'm offering my opinion on the matter and raising points I think are relevant to said discussion. If the best you can add to the discussion is trite internet phrases in response, you're wasting both your time and my time by responding. Or would it be more appropriate to respond in kind and say, "obvious troll is obvious"?
Actually, as I said, I play Specialist games frequently, not infrequently. I'm glad you're paying attention. Since you ask why I'm here, I could raise the same question to you, as you admitted you haven't spend much either. But to answer your question, I'm here because Dakka has the most dedicated Specialist Games contributions anywhere online. There are dozens of fantastic P&M blogs here which I follow and comment on frequently as well as post my own stuff. Just because I don't play 40k doesn't mean I'm not active in other areas that appeal to me. I'd say that's far more productive than complaining in rumors threads constantly.
That's nice you glossed over the entire link with nothing but a jab at the quality of the author's recent work rather than actually responding to the point he brought up in his post. I'm actually not a Neil Gaiman fan, in-so-much as I haven't read enough of his stuff to have formed an opinion on his work one way or another. His point, however, is quite appropriate, in my opinion. If you don't want to address the reason I linked that and simply bash the author's recent work, it really makes no difference to me.
Pacific wrote:First of all, I admire you sticking to your opinions in the face of a landslide of contrary comments (regardless of whether I disagree or not).
Regarding your post, I don't think it's so easy to let go of something that you have spent a considerable amount of time and monetary investment in. I think that's the main beef people have - they have loved (or at least felt strongly about!) GW in the past, and to see the company being driven into the ground is painful.
The point is that the decisions being made now are running in the opposite direction of catering for the hobbyist, and done entirely at the behest of the shareholders. Saying 'they are a business they have to make money' is a fallacy - there are differing degrees of profit orientation, it shouldn't simply be a black and white picture of either making 100% profit, or being a joke in a business sense and the business folding. There are shades of grey in between, and it should be possible for GW to survive as a company while still giving people what they want.
Last year they made a sequence of generally unpopular decisions. The cutting of stores down to 1 man, the cutting of the development teams, the usual price hike. And what did they do with that money? A new marketing strategy, or some exciting new development? No, the money was instead used and given away as dividends for the shareholders. Most importantly, a certain Mr. Tom Kirby, who owns 6% of the company, pocketed a neat $600,000 as a result of that dividend payment. No doubt he will retire with a nice golden-handshake on the way out (he is 60 years old) and the company will be left in ruin behind him, having had all of it's development and growth cut back just to generate short term profits.
Who says you have to lose the stuff you've already invested in when GW releases something new? Sure, with a new codex some rules and units might change, but I'd be hard pressed for anyone to compare it to the changes I had playing a Death Guard list with the latest Chaos codex. Most people don't have entire codex options removed wholesale. Yet, rather than complain about it, I adapted, I worked with what was available and played my Death Guard with that book for 2 years until I left the hobby for a bit. I sold the army to a private collector for a handsome amount and moved on. I'll probably be back for the next codex, if I have the time, but it's hard to get friends together for gaming these days with wives and mortgages and all the other stupid crap you have to deal with when you start getting older.
GW is not being driven into the ground, as much as people like to claim it is. There is always new blood, and there is always the old blood saying how the game is changing and GW is abandoning their core fanbase. I have heard the same argument for 15 years. People leave, new people come in, some people stick around and get way too bitter about a game of toy soldiers. That said, I do think there are plenty of things they could do to add more to the hobby side. I certainly won't disagree there.
The thing is, regardless of what they do business wise, you can't please everyone. You focus more on hobby stuff and the WAAC guys will bitch about the rules not being tighter. You put out a new codex and people complain it's too different. Don't change it enough and people complain not enough was added, or they raped the feel of the army. Hell, it took 5 years of bitching about Gav Thorpe before ruining the chaos codex before Allessio Cavatore came out and point blank said those were his decisions. That's the thing, people are so clueless as to even which people are making the decisions they criticize, yet are experts on the direction the company should take.
As for Tom Kirby, he's probably no different to every CEO on Earth. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but when a company is publicly traded, you can't count on the core spirit of the company to stay as it was when it was a few dudes hanging around writing this crazy ass science fantasy game that looked like Tolkien's acid trip.
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Post by: dariakus
http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FinalFullYearReport.pdf
Some good stuff in here, too. I honestly don't see anything wrong here, and that long term growth chart is quite telling. If they weren't doing what was best for the consumer, they wouldn't be growing.
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Post by: Swordwind
Cadaver wrote:
I'm not aware of a price increase for one fantasy kit, no. I don't play fantasy and it's not relevant to me or this thread. The pricing I referenced is directly related to this thread and most increases were $2-3 more for character models most people would only need one of, a lot more had no increase in price at all. Not exactly a budget shattering increase.
I would just like to point out that more or less all the plastic kits have gotten price raises, and some have seriously been boned (Eldar Falcon, thanks to a 20% increase, I shall never have you... )
Nothing to say about the rest of your post though.
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
This hobby is getting a little too expensive for me..
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Post by: Powerguy
dariakus wrote:http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FinalFullYearReport.pdf
Some good stuff in here, too. I honestly don't see anything wrong here, and that long term growth chart is quite telling. If they weren't doing what was best for the consumer, they wouldn't be growing.
We have had threads covering this (and other financial reports) in the past. The general conclusion was that if you dig a little deeper they aren't actually doing that well. Recently most of their gains have been the result of cost cutting (the stupid 1 man store policies etc) rather than an increase in sales, and in the long term that's not a sustainable strategy (basically there is only so much you can cut). In fact it clearly states that sales were down, with everywhere except the UK and the US falling. Btw the large jump in sales from 02 to 04 and the subsequent fall is largely a result of the Lord of the Rings bubble, which died off after the movies had all been released.
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Post by: DiscoVader
Honestly, I've NEVER understood how keeping those 1 man stores is a good idea at all. I'd much rather have them abolish those completely and sell through FLGS and the internet only, with MAYBE a Battle Bunker at their HQ in America and a few larger stores in the UK, where it's still possible to have 2- and 3-man stores. Between the cost of having to constantly find new retail space, training employees, and then moving all the stock out once the store inevitably shuts down, I can't see how they make any money from them at all.
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Post by: Ajroo
You know what?
Take my extra £50 per army, i dont care, just don't disappear.
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Post by: Backfire
Powerguy wrote:
We have had threads covering this (and other financial reports) in the past. The general conclusion was that if you dig a little deeper they aren't actually doing that well. Recently most of their gains have been the result of cost cutting (the stupid 1 man store policies etc) rather than an increase in sales, and in the long term that's not a sustainable strategy (basically there is only so much you can cut). In fact it clearly states that sales were down, with everywhere except the UK and the US falling. Btw the large jump in sales from 02 to 04 and the subsequent fall is largely a result of the Lord of the Rings bubble, which died off after the movies had all been released.
But it also shows how silly people are to complain that GW prices are high because of the need to please shareholders. 2010 was the first year for some time they made a decent profit and managed to hand out dividends. Since as said, profits were largely because of cost cuttings, it does not seem probable it is sustainable.
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Post by: Mick A
Ajroo wrote:You know what?
Take my extra £50 per army, i dont care, just don't disappear.
Nice if you can afford the extra £50...
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Post by: Worglock
Swordwind wrote:Cadaver wrote:
I'm not aware of a price increase for one fantasy kit, no. I don't play fantasy and it's not relevant to me or this thread. The pricing I referenced is directly related to this thread and most increases were $2-3 more for character models most people would only need one of, a lot more had no increase in price at all. Not exactly a budget shattering increase.
I would just like to point out that more or less all the plastic kits have gotten price raises, and some have seriously been boned (Eldar Falcon, thanks to a 20% increase, I shall never have you... )
Pretty sure he knows that, but since it is information that disqualifies his narrative, it's going to be ignored.
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Post by: Sidstyler
lol, I love all the "Why are you here?" bs...because apparently if you aren't a die-hard fan of GW and only GW then you have no business whatsoever being here on Dakka. There's no other reason to register at Dakka at all apparently.
At least that's what it looks like when you're watching this argument play out, anyway. "If you don't like GW's business practices then why are you here?" Unless I'm mistaken and you're asking why people are here in this thread and not here here, lol...
As for the topic, keeping it short and sweet: bs. Blister prices were fething stupid to begin with, they needed a decrease, and what did we get instead? Another excuse for a price increase and a laughable marketing ploy in the name of "Citadel Finecast". Guess we'll have to wait a week and see if it lives up to the name (god I'm getting tired of these stupid waste-of-time non-announcements telling me to come BACK to the website a week later to see the ACTUAL announcement...announcing announcements, the feth?), but I'm remaining cynical as ever.
It's been a couple years since I purchased anything from Forge World, but I wasn't too impressed by the quality of the crap I got then. Not sure if things have improved or not since then but like I said, I have no reason to believe these will be any better quality than the overpriced metal lumps we already had.
Guess that didn't turn out to be so short after all.
And yes I'm aware FW isn't GW but it's the only thing I have to go by. After seeing the list of prices posted earlier I sure as hell hope GW can do a better job with resin...
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Post by: Cerebrium
Ajroo wrote:You know what?
Take my extra £50 per army, i dont care, just don't disappear.
Just for saying that, they'll now charge you £100. Just because they can. GW: We Just Don't Care. Also, for all the "why are you here" whinging I done, I apologize. The more I read about GW's new attitude, the more I find myself browsing PP products... So yes, this is actually an apology on the internet. This feels strange. Like a thousand fanboys screaming suddenly hushed.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
The "why are you here?" argument is fatuous and insulting. Are new PP releases not also discussed here? Is not Infinity? Is not Cromlech, Reaper, MAS, etc? People who do not play GW games all the rights in the world to continue patronising this forum, and if you don't like it, perhaps it's you who should be leaving.
I hear Warseer is kinder to posters of your ilk.
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Post by: Grimtuff
Cerebrium wrote:Ajroo wrote:You know what?
Take my extra £50 per army, i dont care, just don't disappear.
Just for saying that, they'll now charge you £100. Just because they can.
GW: We Just Don't Care.
I prefer: Games Workshop: Our prices discriminate, because we can't.
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Post by: Cerebrium
Oh, but they do discriminate. Ask any Aussie.
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Post by: Swordwind
Grimtuff wrote:Cerebrium wrote:Ajroo wrote:You know what?
Take my extra £50 per army, i dont care, just don't disappear.
Just for saying that, they'll now charge you £100. Just because they can.
GW: We Just Don't Care.
I prefer: Games Workshop: Our prices discriminate, because we can't.
Or maybe: Games Workshop: Economics? What's that?
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Post by: Grimtuff
Cerebrium wrote:Oh, but they do discriminate. Ask any Aussie.
Via their stupid pricing, they can't come out and say it, that would be bad for busine... Oh, wait.
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Post by: Cerebrium
I don't think they'd be any less popular in Australia if they just released a video of Mat Ward stomping a kangaroo to death.
(Yay, stereotypes! )
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Post by: Sidstyler
lol...
"I Games Workshop! I KNOW ECONOMIC!"
I thought about posting on their Facebook page again...last time I did was when they posted something about Blood Bowl and I brought up the fact that they banned Blood Bowl from their stores. I got a few likes for that one.
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Post by: Starfarer
Swordwind wrote:Cadaver wrote:
I'm not aware of a price increase for one fantasy kit, no. I don't play fantasy and it's not relevant to me or this thread. The pricing I referenced is directly related to this thread and most increases were $2-3 more for character models most people would only need one of, a lot more had no increase in price at all. Not exactly a budget shattering increase.
I would just like to point out that more or less all the plastic kits have gotten price raises, and some have seriously been boned (Eldar Falcon, thanks to a 20% increase, I shall never have you... )
Nothing to say about the rest of your post though.
I had not noticed that thread until now. An overall price increase is a bit ridiculous. My point was a switch to finecast with a minimal increase wasn't a big deal. I was a little confused why people seemed so upset, but seeing the general price increase makes alot more sense.
Worglock wrote:Pretty sure he knows that, but since it is information that disqualifies his narrative, it's going to be ignored.
Nope, wasn't aware at the time. As much as it may blow you mind, I'm not some die-hard fanboy that supports anything GW does. However, just because I do sometimes - well support isn't even the right word - do not criticize GW's decisions alot of people would like to throw me in that category.
Look, price increases suck. I get it. But personally, I'm not going to get mad about it. Ultimately, this is a game, and I have better things to do with my time than support a company that drives me crazy or buy things I think are too expensive. I don't understand why people continue to support the company when they seem to have nothign but contempt for the company and the only thing keeping them around is the background. I used to buy every codex just for the background. But I stopped doing that when they went from $20 to $29. It just wasn't worth it anymore.
Sidstyler wrote:lol, I love all the "Why are you here?" bs...because apparently if you aren't a die-hard fan of GW and only GW then you have no business whatsoever being here on Dakka. There's no other reason to register at Dakka at all apparently.
At least that's what it looks like when you're watching this argument play out, anyway. "If you don't like GW's business practices then why are you here?" Unless I'm mistaken and you're asking why people are here in this thread and not here here, lol...
Yes, because it wasn't the GW critic who asked me why I was here.  Yes, I did raise the question back to him as given the information he provided at the time it seemed a hypocritical question. There's a difference between asking why you participate in GW discussions and being on Dakka in general. I don't understand why people who seemingly despise GW stay so active in discussions regarding the company. I realize there are plenty of people who are just passionate, but there are also those who want GW to burn to the ground. Very dramatic stuff. I think really when it comes down to it people like this want attention more than anything else.
Oh yeah, almost forgot, GW, BURN TO THE GROUND!!! 
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Post by: Ajroo
When is the all-round price increase going to happen?
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Post by: NAVARRO
Agamemnon2 wrote:The "why are you here?" argument is fatuous and insulting. Are new PP releases not also discussed here? Is not Infinity? Is not Cromlech, Reaper, MAS, etc? People who do not play GW games all the rights in the world to continue patronising this forum, and if you don't like it, perhaps it's you who should be leaving.
I hear Warseer is kinder to posters of your ilk.
I agree, at least with the first sentence... and even if people dont play or buy anymore they are as much entitled to comment as anyone else, its a public forum and you dont need to have "credentials" to be a part of a debate here.
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Post by: Time 2 Roll
Awesome. I'm just getting in and had no interest in dealing with metals. Happy to see that long list of upcoming plastic Nids.
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Post by: Lord Scythican
NAVARRO wrote:Agamemnon2 wrote:The "why are you here?" argument is fatuous and insulting. Are new PP releases not also discussed here? Is not Infinity? Is not Cromlech, Reaper, MAS, etc? People who do not play GW games all the rights in the world to continue patronising this forum, and if you don't like it, perhaps it's you who should be leaving.
I hear Warseer is kinder to posters of your ilk.
I agree, at least with the first sentence... and even if people dont play or buy anymore they are as much entitled to comment as anyone else, its a public forum and you dont need to have "credentials" to be a part of a debate here.
Even more so, the ones who quit still remember liking the game. They still like to check up on it even though they are pissed off at the manufacturer. I still check out the new sets of MtG even though I don't play it anymore in hopes of discovering that they realized that they made mistakes and are correcting them.
I used to play paintball and although I do not anymore, I always go by the wal-mart paintball isle to look at the stuff.
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Post by: Worglock
Cadaver wrote:
Yes, because it wasn't the GW critic who asked me why I was here. Yes, I did raise the question back to him as given the information he provided at the time it seemed a hypocritical question. There's a difference between asking why you participate in GW discussions and being on Dakka in general. I don't understand why people who seemingly despise GW stay so active in discussions regarding the company. I realize there are plenty of people who are just passionate, but there are also those who want GW to burn to the ground. Very dramatic stuff. I think really when it comes down to it people like this want attention more than anything else.
Oh yeah, almost forgot, GW, BURN TO THE GROUND!!!
Yes, because you sure didn't post this:
Cadaver wrote: If people can't accept how they run their business, then they and I are free to no longer support them. The difference is, when I choose to no longer support a company, I don't continue to frequent their fan forums complaining about each and every future decision they make. I move on with my life.
It was the Gremlins right? Because you sure wouldn't insinuate that anyone that disagrees with GW should GTFO of the hobby right?
So, not only are you being deliberately obtuse to push a bad narrative, you're being actively dishonest. Off to the bozo-bin with you.
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Post by: Tek
Kanluwen wrote:You want to write them a letter. Emails about anything that isn't missing orders go straight into the spam/junk folder.
Great input. Also not true. See below please.
Da Boss wrote:Have any of the previous letter writing campaigns or petitions achieved anything? GW don't seem to pay attention to them.
Have you ever taken part in one? How many have their honestly been? The reason these things don't work is that no-one actually does it, we all just sit around grizzling, but never actually doing anything about it.
Without customers, any retail outlet would fail literally overnight. They have no option but to listen if enough consumers speak up. If one person complains, they're likely to do nothing. There are 42,976 members of Dakka. If 10% of that number complained to GW, there would be action taken, mark my words.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Don't.
Write a letter.
On paper.
Sign it with your real name.
Address it to the President of the company.
Be polite, be firm. And if you make threats like 'I quit, I'm selling my armies' etc back them up.
Good luck.
Thanks for the advice Kid. I've complained to GW before (I shan't say what about, but it wasn't missing orders) by email and I checked all the boxes you've presented here. I got a personal telephone call from Head Office, and about £150 worth of plastic boxes sent to me. If you have a genuine gripe, and you take it up with them as an adult, then any company will facilitate you.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Cerebrium wrote:Also, for all the "why are you here" whinging I done, I apologize. The more I read about GW's new attitude, the more I find myself browsing PP products...
So yes, this is actually an apology on the internet. This feels strange. Like a thousand fanboys screaming suddenly hushed.
So that makes this the third time I've been vindicated today. Thank you.
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Post by: Eilif
Pacific wrote:I problem with all of this is the 'cancer' that lies at the heart of the company now. I advise everyone to read this very informative blogpost:
http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/help-kirby-is-eating-our-hobby.html
The point is, as made in the blog post I linked above, that the few people at the heart of the company, and running it, have sweet f-all interest in actually the hobby itself. .
Thanks for that excellent link, I don't think that most folks realize just what an incentive the CEO has to raise prices and pay dividends. He's doubling his income!
Cadaver wrote:Because it's alot easier for people to complain on a forum than even do something as easy as backing of their claims of leaving the hobby, let alone put their money down to profit off of GWs business practices.
DAWARBOSS wrote:Everybody saying that they want to leave the hobby,
These two posts unwittingly show the common mistake that many folks make by referring to it as "the hobby". GW isn't "the hobby", it's just one aspect, but even I've ocassionally referred to it as such in the past.
The apparent durability of that definiteion of that one phrase is likely a large part of why they've been able to sustain the incredible price hikes that they have. Folks who have drunk the kool-aid or don't know any better see GW as "the hobby". Those of us outside the bubble see it as a very large company with cool miniatures, but still only one aspect of the hobby.
Unbelievable. Cadian Shocktroops are about to be more than double . The cost they were when first introduced a few years ago. Get ready to pay $30 for a box of 10 insteaad of $25 for a box of 20!
I wish all our incomes had increaced at the same rate as GW prices!
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Post by: Havok210
I just checked out the list and see that most (if not all) Battleforces went up by $20. That does not make me happy, nor encourage new players to get into the game.
I totally understand that game companies need to make a profit or they disappear (hello Rackham). I also understand that price increases seem to be a fact of life these days, but some of the increases seem a little steep to me. 
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Post by: Kroothawk
Some more details from Warseer:
Asensur wrote:Premium stores meeting with GW at Spain comes back with a couple of news:
·Same minis, different moulds using master minis. New details in figures (Capellan on Jumpack, for example, has a new decor in bolter)
·More flexibility (Hyve Tyrant's sword didn't broke with a 90 degrees bend) and resistance (Astorath thrown from 1 meter high and didn't broke)
·Keeps beign resin, just a different resin than FW
·Packed like Avatars of War minis, with golden decor.
·Miniatures come in sprues, without free pieces.
·Limited stock at the beginning, 3 for reference and store.
This makes price's raising a little more comprehensive.
Tlotsqi wrote:From a french retailer (GW salesman call):
*GW definitely stop metal products, except for exceptionnal products.
*Finecast minis are dedicated to veterans so they recommend to sell plastic kits to yong players.
*minis will be sold in box like the plastic kits or transparent box with a pic of the painted mini and a view on the product.
*the sculpture keep the same quality.
*the resin is more resistant than the FW resin (example of a tyranid prince's sword that you can bend with a 90° angle without to break it.
*world official release may 28th.
Llew wrote:Mantic uses something we've taken to calling "restic" which is really pretty nice stuff. I miss not being able to use plastic glue on it, but it takes the super glue well and has good flexibility without being rubbery.
It must be something different though, because it's inexpensive. Mantic switched their metals to restic and basically doubled up on models at very nearly the same price point.
Clearly GW has found some superior way of doing things.
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Post by: MajorTom11
Pretty much everything is going up 20%. They fail to price to currency fluctuations (Aus and Canada being prime examples of getting bent over). The are possibly planning to curtail venues people use to get more reasonable pricing.
I love me my GW, but I fear they are coming very close to genuinely crossing the line and pricing themselves out of business... This can't keep going forever... Their prices go up faster than Gas for crissakes lol.
Many people say 'oh I'm out' when price hikes occur, it is a normal part of the hobby cycle. But the thing for me is, that it seems like it is coming very, very close to being 'I can no longer be in, I can't afford this' as opposed to a petulant 'I'm out'.
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Post by: HAZZER
Are they giving them away in the shops too?If so I'll be up there!
If its changeing to resen its going to be more expencive isent it?
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Post by: Foo
MajorTom11 wrote:Pretty much everything is going up 20%. They fail to price to currency fluctuations (Aus and Canada being prime examples of getting bent over).
We should really get a petition together for Canadian gamers.
Our dollar is up 25%. We already pay a 25% premium vs. US costs. Now they raise the price another 25%?
This is what's known in the common parlance as "a dick move".
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Post by: ashikenshin
nice stuff about the new resin. I was foolish enough to get caught up on the hate. Still I will buy tons of stuff this year. Non-metal nurgle prince come to me!
Come may 28th I'll buy the DE succubus to try it out.
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Post by: Kirasu
Good, theyre using quality resin instead of the horrible stuff FW charges us for
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Post by: MajorTom11
Foo wrote:MajorTom11 wrote:Pretty much everything is going up 20%. They fail to price to currency fluctuations (Aus and Canada being prime examples of getting bent over).
We should really get a petition together for Canadian gamers.
Our dollar is up 25%. We already pay a 25% premium vs. US costs. Now they raise the price another 25%?
This is what's known in the common parlance as "a dick move".
Yup, it's been 3-4 years now that their pricing has been significantly off for us too. Fortunately, I only buy ebay or from our nice american friends like battleroad games.
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Post by: Starfarer
Worglock wrote:Yes, because you sure didn't post this:
Cadaver wrote: If people can't accept how they run their business, then they and I are free to no longer support them. The difference is, when I choose to no longer support a company, I don't continue to frequent their fan forums complaining about each and every future decision they make. I move on with my life.
It was the Gremlins right? Because you sure wouldn't insinuate that anyone that disagrees with GW should GTFO of the hobby right?
So, not only are you being deliberately obtuse to push a bad narrative, you're being actively dishonest. Off to the bozo-bin with you.
No, my point was and is, as a consumer you have a choice to support or not support a company. You can buy their products for the prices they charge, or you can choose not to buy them. However, when nearly every thread gets dragged own in a debate of GW policy and it gets really old. This is a thread about new resin miniatures, and I'd prefer to discuss the new miniatures, not GW corporate policy. When people go on and on about it, I call it out, because there is a price increase thread for people who want to discuss that.
My point about people coming to sites to complain about a company they say they no longer support or are no longer going to support, was purely a statement that I wouldn't waste my time doing this, and yes, I don't understand why other people would waste their time either. I never said they should leave the site, I just feel it's more productive to discuss things you do enjoy. I never point blank said "why are you here?" before you asked me that question. And regardless of the fact I don't owe you an explanation, I gave an honest one, which you brushed over along with many of my other points.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is pushing some false narrative as you have claimed me and others are doing. We just have differing opinions. The difference is you seem to be taking it personally when you shouldn't.
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Post by: redeyed
Regarding the Resin miniatures themselves.
I will reserve judgement until I see one, although I suspect the different in quality wont be that high.
It still wont tempt me to buy one though as I have made my last GW purchase today...
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Post by: Inanimate
Quote wrote:*Finecast minis are dedicated to veterans so they recommend to sell plastic kits to yong players.
So Tyranids are practically off-limits to younger/inexperienced modellers? Feels like they, along with Space Marines, would appeal the most to younger people.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Inanimate wrote:So Tyranids are practically off-limits to younger/inexperienced modellers? Feels like they, along with Space Marines, would appeal the most to younger people.
As are all armies with an HQ in their force chart (except SM and CSM).
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Post by: Slinky
There can't be many armies that you can complete without at least one non-plastic model anyway, surely, given the lack of plastic HQ/Lord options?
So wanting to complete an army now makes you a "veteran", it seems?
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Post by: ruyn
Foo wrote:MajorTom11 wrote:Pretty much everything is going up 20%. They fail to price to currency fluctuations (Aus and Canada being prime examples of getting bent over).
We should really get a petition together for Canadian gamers.
Our dollar is up 25%. We already pay a 25% premium vs. US costs. Now they raise the price another 25%?
This is what's known in the common parlance as "a dick move".
Sounds like the US will be looking to build a northern border fence soon to keep Canadian gamers from taking all of our hard-earned, God-given wargames products.
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Post by: Regnak
You what??! 90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00 - these are currently about £8 each on GW site!!!!
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Post by: Balance
Regnak wrote:You what??! 90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00 - these are currently about £8 each on GW site!!!!
Maybe - hopefully- they're being re-packed from blisters to a box of some kind?
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Post by: Ravenous D
Foo wrote:MajorTom11 wrote:Pretty much everything is going up 20%. They fail to price to currency fluctuations (Aus and Canada being prime examples of getting bent over).
We should really get a petition together for Canadian gamers.
Our dollar is up 25%. We already pay a 25% premium vs. US costs. Now they raise the price another 25%?
This is what's known in the common parlance as "a dick move".
Last time it happened it took GW 2 years to drop the prices, which they then raised 4 months later.
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Post by: redeyed
surely thats a repackage or misprice...I cant believe even GW would do that >.< (re the jezzails)
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Post by: Inanimate
Kroothawk wrote:Inanimate wrote:So Tyranids are practically off-limits to younger/inexperienced modellers? Feels like they, along with Space Marines, would appeal the most to younger people.
As are all armies with an HQ in their force chart (except SM and CSM).
Slinky wrote:There can't be many armies that you can complete without at least one non-plastic model anyway, surely, given the lack of plastic HQ/Lord options?
So wanting to complete an army now makes you a "veteran", it seems?
I don't really understand why exactly these new "resin" based models would be harder to assemble and paint than the tin-based ones though. I guess that even though they will be promoted as products for "veterans", you'll still see kids using those units. Maybe it has something to do with poisonous dust? I'm just wondering what reason lies behind such a d*ckmove. " LOL, you're just a kid. Why don't you take your diaper-fingers away from these finely sculpted 'Nids, and look into some *pffsht* Space Marines instead!!! ".
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Post by: Kanluwen
Balance wrote:Regnak wrote:You what??! 90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00 - these are currently about £8 each on GW site!!!!
Maybe - hopefully- they're being re-packed from blisters to a box of some kind?
The talk is that they're being repackaged in a box of 3.
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Post by: filbert
Kanluwen wrote:Balance wrote:Regnak wrote:You what??! 90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00 - these are currently about £8 each on GW site!!!!
Maybe - hopefully- they're being re-packed from blisters to a box of some kind?
The talk is that they're being repackaged in a box of 3.
Still a £6 increase. Pretty shocking frankly.
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Post by: Kanluwen
*shrug* I don't set the prices.
Maybe the Jezzails aren't the metal ones we have now but are instead retooled and new ones and they decided they're worth 6 GBP more?
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Post by: Just Dave
Kanluwen wrote:*shrug* I don't set the prices.
Maybe the Jezzails aren't the metal ones we have now but are instead retooled and new ones and they decided they're worth 6 GBP more?
Really Kan? Please, give me some of those straws you're grasping onto...
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Post by: Kirasu
Its okay Jezzails got nerfed heavily in the new skaven book anyhow (along with the 8th ed as did all BS based shooting)
ALl you gotta do is input that into the GW Machine Spirit in the Ivory Tower and youll get the reason
Input: Jezzails are a great unit in the 6th ed Skaven Book. However, everyone has a unit of them and they are expensive
Output: Nerf them to boost sales
Input: Jezzails are a mediocre unit with the 7th ed skaven book. Still, everyone has their units and see no reason to buy more given they are mediocre
Output: Nerf them to boost sales
Input: Jezzails are pretty awful with the 7th ed skaven book and the 8th ed rulebook. The money amount to make a unit is extreme in relation to their low game worth
Output: Do not nerf. Raise prices to boost sales
Unfortunately since Machine spirits were built during the dark age of technology (The days before the internet) no one knows how to fix them!
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