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Post by: daedalus
Shame about no Celestine. I suppose they're probably resculpting her anyway though. They lost me by not having Inquisitor Lord Karamazov though. That was going to be the one model I was actually looking forward to buying, even at increased price. I regret ebaying my old one now.
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Post by: Mad4Minis
Is it just me, or does this "finecast" look a lot like the resin FW already uses? i got a set of MK III amors last week and they look just like the pics GW is showing for the new stuff.
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Post by: The_Happy_Pig
Probably. Forge World is owned by GW. It would make sense to use the same supplier.
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Post by: Mad4Minis
baron deathnyx wrote:I they will be releasing the titans
I wouldnt go holding your breath on that one. People have been talking about GW selling titans for years, still nothing. Its wishful thinking.
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Post by: Darth Bob
Mad4Minis wrote:Is it just me, or does this "finecast" look a lot like the resin FW already uses?
You know that Forge World uses whatever resin they can get their hands on, right? That's why the quality is so bad when compared to other companies who make resin models. It's also why, if you go back through the years, FW models seem to be made of multiple different kinds of resin throughout the years (hint: because they have). There's no quality control because they use cheap stuff that they can get easily, there's no set standard of quality for what type of resin they use.
Regardless, Forge World has never used this material. It's a plastic/resin blend that's more like what the PP Warjacks are made of...or even the resin models from Raging Heroes.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2011/5/24/966cb5841ffb8eb6f4713ec9f1252e15_40490.jpg
There you are, said they'd be in sealed boxes you you can't see how pig ugly these resin sprues look.
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Post by: LunaHound
You guys know whats the funniest thing with finecast?
Hypothetically speaking , IF the fine cast are made from newly sculpted molds. ( and not just using the old metal ones )
Why dont they remake them into what FW sculpts look like?
Because at the end of the day, even IF ( which im not seeing ) the details are crisper or w/e ....
its still the same ugly sculpts.................. what a wasted opportunity.... especially everyone can agree with liking the FW aesthetics way more , no contest.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Because GW has sculptors, who get paid and already have things on their plate to work on.
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Post by: johnscott10
LunaHound wrote: especially everyone can agree with liking the FW aesthetics way more , no contest.
Actually ill disagree there, if given the choice between the FW greater demon of khorne and the gw greater daemon of khorne id go for the gw one purely on looks, its the model that made me start this plastic crack of a hobby. the fact it was metal was a real damper but since it will soon be resin i may finally be able to get another one since my painting skills have improved alot since my 1st one.
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Post by: LunaHound
johnscott10 wrote:LunaHound wrote: especially everyone can agree with liking the FW aesthetics way more , no contest.
Actually ill disagree there, if given the choice between the FW greater demon of khorne and the gw greater daemon of khorne id go for the gw one purely on looks, its the model that made me start this plastic crack of a hobby. the fact it was metal was a real damper but since it will soon be resin i may finally be able to get another one since my painting skills have improved alot since my 1st one.
I was referring to the scale of FW models , they look far more realistic without giant heads and giant hands
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Post by: johnscott10
LunaHound wrote:johnscott10 wrote:LunaHound wrote: especially everyone can agree with liking the FW aesthetics way more , no contest.
Actually ill disagree there, if given the choice between the FW greater demon of khorne and the gw greater daemon of khorne id go for the gw one purely on looks, its the model that made me start this plastic crack of a hobby. the fact it was metal was a real damper but since it will soon be resin i may finally be able to get another one since my painting skills have improved alot since my 1st one.
I was referring to the scale of FW models , they look far more realistic without giant heads and giant hands
Oh scale wise then yea, they are more proportioned, so in that aspect then yea FW all the way haha. Aesthetics to me isnt just the proportions, but the look of the model as a whole. Not sure if aesthetics means something else to yous haha.
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Post by: Grimgob
Darth Bob wrote:Mad4Minis wrote:Is it just me, or does this "finecast" look a lot like the resin FW already uses?
Regardless, Forge World has never used this material. It's a plastic/resin blend that's more like what the PP Warjacks are made of...or even the resin models from Raging Heroes.
Didn't they hint they would be using a new sturdier resin with the FW resin RoB piece. FW might actually start using this resin after all. And the FW Greater Deamon of Khorn is an awsome model. Have you looked at the detail up close?
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Post by: Darth Bob
Grimgob wrote:Darth Bob wrote:Mad4Minis wrote:Is it just me, or does this "finecast" look a lot like the resin FW already uses?
Regardless, Forge World has never used this material. It's a plastic/resin blend that's more like what the PP Warjacks are made of...or even the resin models from Raging Heroes.
Didn't they hint they would be using a new sturdier resin with the FW resin RoB piece. FW might actually start using this resin after all.
And the FW Greater Deamon of Khorn is an awsome model. Have you looked at the detail up close?
We can only hope that Forge World actually develops a standard for the resin they use. But I'm just saying that up to this point FW has never used the material Finecast uses; though I would love to see them do it in the future.
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Post by: Grim.Badger
Darth Bob wrote:Grimgob wrote:Darth Bob wrote:Mad4Minis wrote:Is it just me, or does this "finecast" look a lot like the resin FW already uses?
Regardless, Forge World has never used this material. It's a plastic/resin blend that's more like what the PP Warjacks are made of...or even the resin models from Raging Heroes.
Didn't they hint they would be using a new sturdier resin with the FW resin RoB piece. FW might actually start using this resin after all.
And the FW Greater Deamon of Khorn is an awsome model. Have you looked at the detail up close?
We can only hope that Forge World actually develops a standard for the resin they use. But I'm just saying that up to this point FW has never used the material Finecast uses; though I would love to see them do it in the future.
I doubt they can, I suspect that the Finecast resin is probably best suited for spin-casting so wouldn't work too well in FW's antiquated gravity moulds - I would love to be wrong though!
In some ways I like GW's hero proportion models, but I will admit that the more realistically proportioned FW IG look much better on the gaming table (and make my Marines look bigger!)
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Post by: StarFyre
I can't believe someone here actually likes the regular GW greater demons. Personally, I would feel embarrased using them in an army as the models are just so bad...
Sanjay
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Post by: Sidstyler
The Lord of Change isn't that bad.
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Post by: shasolenzabi
Resin instead of metal, get ready for a massive price increase!
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Post by: Sidstyler
Exactly as I expected, and what was pretty much confirmed yesterday when the pics started coming out. It's the same damn crap but with a higher price tag and in a more fragile material.
I really hope no one is buying all this hype and seriously believes what GW is saying, that these are not only of superior quality and detail but the most detailed resin miniatures ever produced by any company in the wooooorld!!!!11
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Post by: NAVARRO
I'm a bit disapointed because these are packed with flash and mouldlines, I think their metals was progressing into more discreet mouldlines and very few flash but these resins are a step back on that direction. Its like something you would expect from FW.
Having worked with Alkemy Resin/plastic miniatures were the mouldlines are almost non existant, you had no flash and every mini was already cutted off sprues I would espect that GW at least would equal or do a better job at that since its been done better elsewere for a few years back now.
Maybe these are WIP's and next releases will have a better quality control on these casts.
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Post by: farmersboy
The cost increase is nothing to moan about - when I started painting miniatures Citadel charged 3 for a pound!
What is at issue is the quality; switching to a cheaper material, using the exact same moulds and then upping the price while telling everyone how superior the new minatures are is a shallow and, frankly, quite insulting marketing exercise.
I withhold judgement on the figures themselves until I see one in the flesh - I might attempt my local GW store at the weekend if I can force my way past all the annoying kids (ie the ones that work there).
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Post by: ph34r
I think the plus side that you really have to consider is the future models that will be in finecase.
Imagine how amazing the SoB and Chaos Marine ranges will look when they are upgraded from awful 2nd edition models to Finecast which, when combined with sculpts made for Finecast, will be a vast improvement.
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Post by: Flashman
NAVARRO wrote:Maybe these are WIP's and next releases will have a better quality control on these casts.
It's a pity we've all sworn off GW purchases, as a rolling review thread on Saturday would have been good.
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Post by: KingDeath
ph34r wrote:I think the plus side that you really have to consider is the future models that will be in finecase.
Imagine how amazing the SoB and Chaos Marine ranges will look when they are upgraded from awful 2nd edition models to Finecast which, when combined with sculpts made for Finecast, will be a vast improvement.
For that they would have to be upgraded one day 
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
He certainly won't be carving his name into any more Primarchs with that much flash...
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
That's a lot of flash, it's a good job resin is soft because you're going to be doing a fair bit of cleaning. Remember these are "the best quality miniatures in the world" and they look like someone's back kitchen job. I can't think of another company that puts figures on the market in this condition.
No wonder they hide it in a box rather than in a blister. Some of those tags look a little tricky to remove where they attach onto the shoulderpad (marked in red). And what are those strange protuberances coming from various parts of the figure (in yellow).
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Post by: Just Dave
Heck, that is a lot of cleaning up to do! And this is coming from someone who doesn't care for mold lines! Their miniatures are great, but that's a lot of extra crap to be claiming it's best in the world. 
Also, Draigo's chest says "sword"?!
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Post by: johnscott10
Given the most recent pic( and the crap loads of flash) im not surprised that people are annoyed.
However the bits marked in yellow above are just other vents that have been added to the mold, I did read it somewhere that more had to be added.
The way I see it is since they make you clean up the model more it takes you longer to actually buy another.
So it saves you money and they get less profot, win win situation.
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Post by: Scottywan82
Just Dave wrote:Heck, that is a lot of cleaning up to do! And this is coming from someone who doesn't care for mold lines! Their miniatures are great, but that's a lot of extra crap to be claiming it's best in the world.
Also, Draigo's chest says "sword"?!
Seeing it together with the other side make more sense.
The other side says "Killy."
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Post by: Just Dave
Scottywan82 wrote:Just Dave wrote:Heck, that is a lot of cleaning up to do! And this is coming from someone who doesn't care for mold lines! Their miniatures are great, but that's a lot of extra crap to be claiming it's best in the world.
Also, Draigo's chest says "sword"?!
Seeing it together with the other side make more sense.
The other side says "Killy."
That'd work for me. I assume the other side does say something, but what would it say to not make it sound stupid?!
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Post by: kronk
Noisy_Marine wrote:Hm, in resin you can't chuck Ghazgkhull through a window or at your opponent's head. Well you *could*, but Ghaz would break instead of the window.
Some people put a key under their doormat, in case they lock themselves out of their homes.
I have Ghaz hidden under my doormat to break open a window. It's only right an proppa!
killkrazy wrote:
I am not 100% convinced that the people chosen for that advert are completely unbiased.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Just Dave wrote:Also, Draigo's chest says "sword"?!
The new GK's are covered in all sorts of goofy nonsense. Why they couldn't stick to pseudo-Latin 'High Gothic' is anyone's guess.
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Post by: kronk
I'm pretty sure it's "S Word" and they ran out of room for the space.
The other side, not pictured, says Bull.
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Post by: Ascalam
Or it's missing the 'here' and the bitz-ordered neon glowing arrow floating above his head...
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Post by: Mr Mystery
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, as thread is a tad long, but I am fairly reliably informed that rather than completely replacing the metal models, all current metals are going direct only.
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Post by: spaceelf
Howard A Treesong wrote:
That's a lot of flash, it's a good job resin is soft because you're going to be doing a fair bit of cleaning. Remember these are "the best quality miniatures in the world" and they look like someone's back kitchen job. I can't think of another company that puts figures on the market in this condition. No wonder they hide it in a box rather than in a blister.
+1
It looks truly awful. They may be getting alot of returns.
Howard A Treesong wrote:
Some of those tags look a little tricky to remove where they attach onto the shoulderpad (marked in red). And what are those strange protuberances coming from various parts of the figure (in yellow).
I think the yellow ones are vents to let the air escape. You see them on metal models as well.
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Post by: Trasvi
Truthfully the flash doesn't look horrible to me. With my experience with FW as well as casting myself, most of that flash is wafer thin and will fall off the model if you breathe hard enough. As for the bigger bits, its no more that I expect from most GW metals at the moment, and would be considerably easier to clean off. The flat panels look crisp and smooth, with no odd lumps and bumps stuck in horribly hard to clean places.
Not that the price increase is an excuse for anything less than cleaned and hand-delivered to your door, but still...
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Post by: Samus_aran115
insaniak wrote:Grim.Badger wrote:Samus_aran115 wrote:There's no way to get more detail out of old molds except by resculpting them.
The case is that the resin flows into intricate detail better - different liquids flow into small spaces differently, for example a high lead pewter will flow better than a low lead pewter, but will be softer; metal alloys also have stronger inter-molecular bonding than plastics and resins which acts in a similar way to water surface tension and stops the metal from flowing into very fine detail [a mix of Degree level metalurgy and A-level Chemistry - apologies if it's not quite right).
The metal also shrinks as it cools, which results in a slight loss of detail. Some resins shrink as well, some don't.
Ah, I see. I wasn't aware. Thanks  Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and some of that flash really is horrible. Oy. Especially around his banner. Those are delicate pieces, and I can imagine that snapping one of the little spikes off would be quite easy.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
spaceelf wrote:+1
It looks truly awful. They may be getting alot of returns.
Maybe, at least until customers get used to this stuff, until then there may be a few surprises.
Howard A Treesong wrote:I think the yellow ones are vents to let the air escape. You see them on metal models as well.
Probably, but the sprue itself has quite a lot anyway so its surprising they need more.
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Post by: nectarprime
The flash doesn't look any worse than alot of other GW plastic models. Can't wait to pick up a new resin model.
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Post by: HAZZER
Hey guys, It's worth getting next months white dwarf.(I received it today through the post subscriptions do have there advantages!)..But it is pack with the info about the Citadel Finecast stuff and the battle report of the century.. ...And a what the boxes will look like... ...I honestly prefer the newest ones.
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Post by: Nvs
I didn't see it mentioned, but I'm curious if we can use typical model glue to fuze plastic pieces to the resin? Or do you have to stick with super glues?
Also, is the idea for them to make all the metal/plastic models plastic/resin kits now? The Thousand Sons for example? And will these kits see an increase in cost?
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Post by: bloodaxegit
Not meaning to be rude, but FOR FETH'S SAKE! A little flash is inevitable, yet you're acting like it's the fething apocalypse! Stop trolling just because it has 3 BITS OF FLASH!
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Post by: Kilkrazy
nectarprime wrote:The flash doesn't look any worse than alot of other GW plastic models. Can't wait to pick up a new resin model.
You usually only get flash that bad in injection moulding when the moulds are worn or badly aligned and badly quality controlled. I've never had a GW kit anything like that bad.
This piece may be a pre-production sample, which would excuse the flash but doesn't make it a good decision to use it to demonstrate the quality.
This new resin needs to be a lot more flexible than normal resin or polystyrene, or cleaning the small parts will be very tricky.
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Post by: nectarprime
Kilkrazy wrote:nectarprime wrote:The flash doesn't look any worse than alot of other GW plastic models. Can't wait to pick up a new resin model.
You usually only get flash that bad in injection moulding when the moulds are worn or badly aligned and badly quality controlled. I've never had a GW kit anything like that bad.
This piece may be a pre-production sample, which would excuse the flash but doesn't make it a good decision to use it to demonstrate the quality.
This new resin needs to be a lot more flexible than normal resin or polystyrene, or cleaning the small parts will be very tricky.
I find it funny that people defend FW's parts coming to customers all warped and disfigured and they act like it's acceptable, but GW models have a little flash on them and everyone is up and arms about it.
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Post by: ashikenshin
hey, hate on gw is the new black didn't you hear?
I think it's nothing bad, a little work with a razorblade and you end up with a good looking mini.
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Post by: bloodaxegit
Thank you nectarprime, it ISN'T such a big deal that it has 3 pieces of flash.
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Post by: Just Dave
Yeah, but what did it for me is that A) that's considerably more flash than I've ever seen in any other GW model, B) they've increased the price and C) they claim them to be the best models in the world, which whilst obviously sales talk, is blatantly not the case it seems...
I do like how these new resin models coming on sprues should make conversions easier however, which is always a good thing.
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Post by: CX316
Howard A Treesong wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2011/5/24/966cb5841ffb8eb6f4713ec9f1252e15_40490.jpg
There you are, said they'd be in sealed boxes you you can't see how pig ugly these resin sprues look.
Look at the packs behind him. It's a sealed clear plastic clamshell pack that has the front covered with a photo of the painted mini and you can see through the back of it to see the actual sprue. It's better than the old setup where you had to pretty much guess what the finished model would look like if you didn't have a photo in the codex or WD to refer to
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
nectarprime wrote:I find it funny that people defend FW's parts coming to customers all warped and disfigured and they act like it's acceptable, but GW models have a little flash on them and everyone is up and arms about it.
My forgeworld stuff hasn't reached me that what much flash on. Also the forgeworld figures I've had tend not to have that many vents on them, the have a single large tag attached to the base. That's probably the difference when you aren't going for mass production that needs the moulds churning out a large volume of figures in short time.
And on that note, because you can't melt the resin and return it to the melting pot like you can with metal, what will happen to all the miscasts? Some will likely be serviceable figures even if they don't come to retail standard, especially tempting at the new prices. Will people try to get them out of the factory and distribute them cheaply? Time to go skip diving around the back of GW factory. 
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Post by: Ravenous D
Howard A Treesong wrote:
wtf? So they go to a cheaper material and it is covered in flash but charge more?  you GW, you your stupid
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Post by: Imperator97
Looking at june's white dwarf, they're re-doing a lot of stuff
How much do you think will be redone? (looking at SOB)
They've re-done hybrid kits, so maybe full metals too?
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Post by: Ravenous D
Its only the top 100 sellers are getting redone + everything new that comes out in the future.
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Post by: MIKEtheMERCILESS
Common, that flash is not horrible by any stretch of the imagination. I don't see any difference between what you'd see on metal, only that the fine details are crisper.
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Post by: nectarprime
Ravenous D wrote:Its only the top 100 sellers are getting redone + everything new that comes out in the future.
So everything else will still be metal? Source on this?
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:Common, that flash is not horrible by any stretch of the imagination. I don't see any difference between what you'd see on metal, only that the fine details are crisper.
I think that's part of the problem. Metal models where somewhat more sturdy and forgiving on cleanups. There's good concern that the resin-flash could screw the model up quite badly.
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Post by: Kanluwen
DarkStarSabre wrote:MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:Common, that flash is not horrible by any stretch of the imagination. I don't see any difference between what you'd see on metal, only that the fine details are crisper.
I think that's part of the problem. Metal models where somewhat more sturdy and forgiving on cleanups. There's good concern that the resin-flash could screw the model up quite badly.
No, there's really not.
It takes in those cases just a simple swipe of a knife to get rid of the flash.
If you're using clippers to do the really delicate stuff, it will break yes. But that's because clippers are brutal, simplistic tools for removing flash.
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Post by: nectarprime
DarkStarSabre wrote:MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:Common, that flash is not horrible by any stretch of the imagination. I don't see any difference between what you'd see on metal, only that the fine details are crisper.
I think that's part of the problem. Metal models where somewhat more sturdy and forgiving on cleanups. There's good concern that the resin-flash could screw the model up quite badly.
That flash looks paper thin to me, and might not even be connected to the banner at all. Even if it was, I do not think it will be a problem.
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Post by: SmackyCat
got my castellan Crowe today, i like better than the pewter but some parts had some real bad air bubbles, feel weird cause the sword is soft and bends hehe
came in a blister just with art on the front of it, if you hold him up to light you can pretty much see thru his banner and on his cape theres a part thats so thin that there are tiny holes in it
can see it on first pic just right of the book on his waist
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Post by: Kilkrazy
nectarprime wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:nectarprime wrote:The flash doesn't look any worse than alot of other GW plastic models. Can't wait to pick up a new resin model.
You usually only get flash that bad in injection moulding when the moulds are worn or badly aligned and badly quality controlled. I've never had a GW kit anything like that bad.
This piece may be a pre-production sample, which would excuse the flash but doesn't make it a good decision to use it to demonstrate the quality.
This new resin needs to be a lot more flexible than normal resin or polystyrene, or cleaning the small parts will be very tricky.
I find it funny that people defend FW's parts coming to customers all warped and disfigured and they act like it's acceptable, but GW models have a little flash on them and everyone is up and arms about it.
First, I haven't defended FW's parts.
Second, FW models are marketed as specialist items for experienced modellers who should expect to have the skills and motivation to deal with some complications in assembly.
Whereas, GW Finecast is being marketed as the Second Coming.
Third, I have assembled over 100 GW polystyrene kits and I've never seen one as bad as you describe. I've got hundreds of metal models and I've never seen one that bad.
Fourth, I have 40 years experience in plastic modelling and I can tell you that thin parts as seen in the pictured kit are tricky to get off the sprue intact.
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Post by: Medium of Death
I didn't mind the metal models terribly, but I guess resin is a fair amount easier to put together. I'll perhaps pick-up skulltaker in the next week or so to see what all the fuss is about.
I think it's a tad too early to make concrete decisions.
I do agree with the FW sentiment though, in the sense that I expect this 'finecast' malarkey to be of greater quality.
It would be interesting to see how some of the new TK sculpts come out in 'finecast' resin compared with the old metal molds. (in terms of fiddly sprue pieces)
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Post by: Alpharius
Kilkrazy wrote:
Second, FW models are marketed as specialist items for experienced modellers who should expect to have the skills and motivation to deal with some complications in assembly.
Whereas, GW Finecast is being marketed as the Second Coming.
That is the biggest problem, for me.
The hyperbole about how super-special awesome game changing these things are going to be is bound to cause disappointment when the real product is revealed as anything but.
I suppose they felt the need to hype it up given the price increase that accompanied it, but still...
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Post by: Kilkrazy
The plus points of resin are (1) it's lighter, and needs less pinning, (2) it cements instantly with Super Glue, and (3) because of 1 and 2 it can be assembled quickly without supports and so on.
The downside is that you have to be exact about how you position the part when you cement it, as it will bond instantly.
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Post by: insaniak
HAZZER wrote:It's worth getting next months white dwarf.(I received it today through the post subscriptions do have there advantages!)..But it is pack with the info about the Citadel Finecast stuff and the battle report of the century..
...And a what the boxes will look like...
...I honestly prefer the newest ones.
So... a battle report, and some pictures that are already all over the internet? And I can pay for it, you say? Sounds like an awesome deal!
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Post by: Kanluwen
The part about the Finecast box back showing the sprue is news to me.
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Post by: fullheadofhair
insaniak wrote:HAZZER wrote:It's worth getting next months white dwarf.(I received it today through the post subscriptions do have there advantages!)..But it is pack with the info about the Citadel Finecast stuff and the battle report of the century..
...And a what the boxes will look like...
...I honestly prefer the newest ones.
So... a battle report, and some pictures that are already all over the internet? And I can pay for it, you say? Sounds like an awesome deal!
and here I think we have the reason for the changes to WD subscription and not releasing anything until a week before it is due. Protecting the revenue stream from WD.
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Post by: Alpharius
fullheadofhair wrote:
and here I think we have the reason for the changes to WD subscription and not releasing anything until a week before it is due. Protecting the revenue stream from WD.
...I do believe you're on to something here!
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Post by: Grim.Badger
I like the way people have said "they're no better than the metal figures" without showing a side-by-side comparison to actually prove it to everyone else!
According to our redshirt it's far more robust than FW resin; this was demonstrated at head office to the store managers by dropping a finecast Azhag off the side of the table, whereupon the model bounced  It took a day of these demostrations for the first peice to break off. Obviously I expect everyone to take this with salt as I was told it by a redshirt, but if it's true then it is a big improvement over existing GW metal and FW resin figures.
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Post by: insaniak
fullheadofhair wrote:and here I think we have the reason for the changes to WD subscription and not releasing anything until a week before it is due. Protecting the revenue stream from WD.
It's certainly a more productive solution than including worthwhile content.
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Post by: Medium of Death
Hmmm believe the redshirt or tip a £55 model over the edge of a table to see if he's wrong...?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
nectarprime wrote:The flash doesn't look any worse than alot of other GW plastic models. Can't wait to pick up a new resin model.
I've never seen a GW model with that much flash on it.
nectarprime wrote:I find it funny that people defend FW's parts coming to customers all warped and disfigured and they act like it's acceptable, but GW models have a little flash on them and everyone is up and arms about it.
No on defends FW. FW has no quality control to speak of and there are always threads about the misfortunes people have had with them.
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Post by: TheGentleman
Hmmm...Well what i want to know is, as they are making many models into resin instead of metal, how come the price has gone up? I thought the cost of the resin finecast models would be far cheaper than making the models out of metal? is the price only going up because they are changing the packaging? 
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Post by: SpitfireArsonist
Just went to my local GW and they have put up posters for the new releases. Going to pester the manager all day for info.
Hopefully he is open and honest.
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Post by: Slinky
The price rise is justified because these are the best models ever produced in the history of model making.
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Post by: vitki
/sarcasm ????
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Post by: blood reaper
Slinky wrote:The price rise is justified because these are the best models ever produced in the history of model making.
Sarcasim? Becuase their are other companys who have made better minitures at a far better price.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
TheGentleman wrote:Hmmm...Well what i want to know is, as they are making many models into resin instead of metal, how come the price has gone up? I thought the cost of the resin finecast models would be far cheaper than making the models out of metal? is the price only going up because they are changing the packaging?
Because GW are a corrupt company who have nothing but contempt for their fans. With any luck, and when all is said and done, this 'Finecost' nonsense will be just another turn on their slow death spiral.
33661
Post by: Mad4Minis
Alpharius wrote:
The hyperbole about how super-special awesome game changing these things are going to be is bound to cause disappointment when the real product is revealed as anything but.
Just take a look at SmackyCat's post on page 22. That sums it up quite well. Seems all they really did was give the metals the FW treatment. If they hadnt gone uber-hype on the things then people might have accepted it.
However, anyone who doesnt have experience with FW stuff and buys the finecast as their first resin models...well I think there will be a lot of " WTF is this " going on.
From what Ive seen they arent any worse than the metals. Every metal Ive ever bought from any manufacturer had some trimming that needed to be done.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Alpharius wrote:The hyperbole about how super-special awesome game changing these things are going to be is bound to cause disappointment when the real product is revealed as anything but.
I guess that despite GW’s wish that the web would simply go away they have learnt the fine art of Internet Hyperbole.
Games Workshop Limited: Finecast is more popular than Jesus!
11
Post by: ph34r
HAZZER wrote:(I received it today through the post subscriptions do have there advantages!)
Yeah, until the WD subscription system changes, and you get your WD a week after everyone else. EDIT: And by "everyone else" I mean the 4 people that still buy WD in stores.
29585
Post by: AvatarForm
For everyone, Kirby has reviewed the Lord Draigo finecast resin:
http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/05/citadel-finecast.html
Enjoy!
17796
Post by: Slinky
Now there are some out "in the wild" I look forward to seeing some side-by-side comparisons with the old metals.
Frankly, I expect to see little to no difference.
From the blog linked above, "air bubbles" are mentioned. Hmm.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Hoooooly gak, the part where the resin is so thin you can see through Crowe's cape: that's bad. I would be pissed if I paid top dollar for that model, believing that I was buying a resin cast miniature blessed by the Son of God himself of course, and saw that upon opening the box.
I too predict lots of miscasts and lots of calls to customer service.
And yeah, I'm not a dumbass, I realize you could probably just smooth GS over it and it would be good to go, but seriously, when the product is being marketed as "the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen", stuff like that is just inexcusable.
7637
Post by: Sasori
I wonder if we are going to see increased quality of finecast, when we start to see models designed for it.
So far, it just seems to be things that were designed in metal, and likely using Metal moulds for the Finecast.
I'm hoping there will be a difference, but we will see.
99
Post by: insaniak
Sasori wrote:...and likely using Metal moulds for the Finecast.
They're not using the moulds from the metals. The pics we've seen so far of the finecast, they've been on mini-sprues. So new moulds, just made (presumably) from the same (or slightly altered) masters.
27025
Post by: lunarman
Just been blocked by Games Workshop on their facebook page for complaining about prices!
They really need to learn how to deal with criticism rather than just deleting their opposition. Starting to feel like their facebook page is a dictatorship rather than a place for freedom of speech
14732
Post by: Lord Scythican
Well I know this for sure. No matter how many air bubbles, flash, and mold lines that are on these, the fact that the boss pole on a ork can be bent and not break...well that is just cool. I have always hated it when bitz like a boss pole snap off if you breathe on them funny.
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
As stated by Gonads/KK in other threads: Write a letter detailing your problems and where your cash will now be flowing.
Don't go and complain on their facebook page. Internet critism is probably not given credence because it's so easy to do.
99
Post by: insaniak
lunarman wrote:... rather than a place for freedom of speech
Er... what?
They're entirely within their rights to decide what remains on their own page. Whether or not deleting overly negative comments is a good idea or not is down to personal view ... but it's nothing whatsoever to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of Speech entitles you to say what you want without fear of persecution. It doesn't entitle you to walk into someone else's house and abuse them without them having any say in the matter.
While people are understandably upset about all the recent shenanigans, let's all try to keep a little perspective and remember that this is ultimately about toy soldiers.
42032
Post by: CadianCommander
Medium of Death - you didn't see the letter my friend sent to Mark Wells and the response he got on the "GW Respond To Our Complaints On Facebook" thread?
A two line response that can be summed up as "suck it up".
Surprised I haven't been banned from GW's FB yet.....
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Sasori wrote:I wonder if we are going to see increased quality of finecast, when we start to see models designed for it.
So far, it just seems to be things that were designed in metal, and likely using Metal moulds for the Finecast.
I'm hoping there will be a difference, but we will see.
Thats what I'm hoping for, these casts were based on metal models masters and I wonder if when they do some miniatures optimized just for the Finecast we will start to see better results.
As far as it goes I can give some latitude to improvement since maybe these were made in a rush but I do not consider these cast satisfactory.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
insaniak wrote:Sasori wrote:...and likely using Metal moulds for the Finecast.
They're not using the moulds from the metals. The pics we've seen so far of the finecast, they've been on mini-sprues. So new moulds, just made (presumably) from the same (or slightly altered) masters.
I was under the impression from other posters that the "sprue" was actually how the metal models were made as well, but that in the case of metal the frame was removed.
99
Post by: insaniak
Not unless GW use a very different spin-cast set-up to what they used to (they've shown pictures of the moulds in the past, with no evidence of this sort of sprue set-up) or to what pretty much everyone else on the planet uses.
There's no need for the sprue in a spin-cast mould for metal.
21853
Post by: mattyrm
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because GW are a corrupt company who have nothing but contempt for their fans. With any luck, and when all is said and done, this 'Finecost' nonsense will be just another turn on their slow death spiral.
Ive long found HBMCs posts to be bizarre warped ramblings, but this one takes the cake.
You WANT GW to disapear?
I don't, I like 40k, but for the life of me I cannot understand why you post on a website devoted to GW If you have such a distaste for the company, and your sigs are all ridiculous as well, your like some sort of battered wife who constantly slags off her abusive husband, but just cant bring herself to leave him.
221
Post by: Frazzled
Eilif wrote:The brand of Superglue is not nearly as important as the type/viscosity. All hobbyists owe it to themselves to have both a thick gap filling superglue and a thin watery superglue on hand at their workspace.
I have a hunch that the many folks who glue them selves to their work were using a thin runny superglue to attach metal parts when they should have been using a thicker gap-fililng super glue.
Likewise, when you've got two parts that are perfectly flat or an existing join that needs strenghthening, don't reach for the thick glue.
I've used many brands and never had a problem with them so long as I was using the right kind.
This is an excellent point. I've been doig this crap for decades and never thought about it like that. Automatically Appended Next Post: Eilif wrote:The brand of Superglue is not nearly as important as the type/viscosity. All hobbyists owe it to themselves to have both a thick gap filling superglue and a thin watery superglue on hand at their workspace.
I have a hunch that the many folks who glue them selves to their work were using a thin runny superglue to attach metal parts when they should have been using a thicker gap-fililng super glue.
Likewise, when you've got two parts that are perfectly flat or an existing join that needs strenghthening, don't reach for the thick glue.
I've used many brands and never had a problem with them so long as I was using the right kind.
This is an excellent point. I've been doing this crap for decades and never thought about it like that.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
I have to hand it to Tom Kirbby. That is the most honest, forthright review of a company's own products I've ever read. The man has integrity and guts to speak out in public like that.
Also I'm impressed by his modelling knowledge. I kind of had him pegged as a suit who only pretended to be interested in the games.
Well done, Mr Kirby!
27025
Post by: lunarman
insaniak wrote:lunarman wrote:... rather than a place for freedom of speech
Er... what?
They're entirely within their rights to decide what remains on their own page. Whether or not deleting overly negative comments is a good idea or not is down to personal view ... but it's nothing whatsoever to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of Speech entitles you to say what you want without fear of persecution. It doesn't entitle you to walk into someone else's house and abuse them without them having any say in the matter.
While people are understandably upset about all the recent shenanigans, let's all try to keep a little perspective and remember that this is ultimately about toy soldiers.
The difference is that GW don't 'own' their facebook page. Facebook does. If I walked onto their property in Nottingham and was rowdy that'd be an entirely different matter. But protesting on their facebook page is no different to protesting in parliament square in london (if a little less visible  ). Because Facebook have set facebook up a public space then it's within my rights to say anything I like and not be moderated (except if I break Facebook's rules). In my opinion GW should either not have a facebook page, or get used to the fact that people have other than positive opinions about their products. They delete comments and block people when they criticise their pricing or decisions instead of listening to these people and either adjusting their business plan or explaining their decisions. Sure, it's just about toy soldiers; but not when you're a shareholder. I have a stake in their company and yet I can see them throwing themselves down the drain, losing customers left and right. And yet, they block me from voicing my views in the one place where the public and GW both can hear my opinion. I've sent letters and emails and rung their customer service line too, but no official response as of yet. Yes, I admit that I do post on facebook with the deliberate intent of informing the younger/move naive gamers about how GW acts and treats them, to make them aware, to help them join the boycott. The most visible place to do this is at their door itself.
As I said on facebook, GW hasn't given a valid response as to why these new Finecast miniatures are so expensive, and they won't. There is no reason other than to raise profit margins to cover their dwindling customer base and so they just put their fingers in their ears and say nothing. Pretending a problem is going to disappear doesn't make it vanish, and their massive disregard for their customers (and their shareholders too) has got me thinking that bailing out is a good thing to do. Shares are only going to drop in value if their customer base gets smaller and smaller.
My comment on facebook was about the fact the web-team are putting together an FAQ about the new finecast models based on questions asked on facebook. 50% of those questions were people asking why finecast was more expensive than metal despite being a cheaper material. And as I commented "There's not a chance in hell GW will mention the price of finecast in their FAQ. GW routinely refuses to talk about price because they know it's too high. If they explain why Finecast is so expensive in their FAQ, or just openly admit it's because they need high-profit margins, then I'll eat my entire Descent of Angels Army."
Lunarman
9010
Post by: Rymafyr
mattyrm wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because GW are a corrupt company who have nothing but contempt for their fans. With any luck, and when all is said and done, this 'Finecost' nonsense will be just another turn on their slow death spiral.
Ive long found HBMCs posts to be bizarre warped ramblings, but this one takes the cake.
You WANT GW to disapear?
I don't, I like 40k, but for the life of me I cannot understand why you post on a website devoted to GW If you have such a distaste for the company, and your sigs are all ridiculous as well, your like some sort of battered wife who constantly slags off her abusive husband, but just cant bring herself to leave him.
40k will survive GW sinking... but likely won't if GW survives and continues doing the stupid crap they keep pulling. Sayonara GW!
29438
Post by: Kirby
Kilkrazy wrote:
I have to hand it to Tom Kirbby. That is the most honest, forthright review of a company's own products I've ever read. The man has integrity and guts to speak out in public like that.
Also I'm impressed by his modelling knowledge. I kind of had him pegged as a suit who only pretended to be interested in the games.
Well done, Mr Kirby!
This is sarcasm right?
9010
Post by: Rymafyr
By the way, off topic I know, but when did GW go public?
5859
Post by: Ravenous D
nectarprime wrote:Ravenous D wrote:Its only the top 100 sellers are getting redone + everything new that comes out in the future.
So everything else will still be metal? Source on this?
GW managers meeting info.
They got a walk through the plant and got the low down on the new resins. What I was told was:
-As of May 28th there will be no metal models in GW stores, everything is being shipped back to memphis
-Only the top 100 sellers are getting redone into resin, everything else is direct only
- GW suggests NOT using files on them as it will scratch the resin
-The usual propaganda about the "increased detail" lighter and better blah blah blah
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
mattyrm wrote:You WANT GW to disapear?
Yes. I want them to fail. To cease operating as a commercial entity. To vanish. Go. Be eliminated from the market place. How many different ways can I say this?
mattyrm wrote:I don't, I like 40k
As do I.
Liking 40K =/= liking GW.
mattyrm wrote:...but for the life of me I cannot understand why you post on a website devoted to GW
Really? This forum is devoted to GW? I thought it was devoted to 40K, Warhammer and a myriad of other games. I mean, just a gander at the N&R topics shows us Infinity, Privateer Press, Mantic, Dystopian Wars, Fantasy Flight Games.
But dedicated to GW? I've never seen that?
If you have such a distaste for the company...
Yes...
...and your sigs are all ridiculous as well...
And none of them were said by me, so I really don't know what you're getting at.
...your like some sort of battered wife who constantly slags off her abusive husband, but just cant bring herself to leave him.
An an ad hominem. Well done. I'd say "C-c-c-c-combo" but your post was so mindlessly confused that I don't think there's any line of coherent thought.
39195
Post by: Asuron
Ravenous D wrote:nectarprime wrote:Ravenous D wrote:Its only the top 100 sellers are getting redone + everything new that comes out in the future.
So everything else will still be metal? Source on this?
GW managers meeting info.
They got a walk through the plant and got the low down on the new resins. What I was told was:
-As of May 28th there will be no metal models in GW stores, everything is being shipped back to memphis
-Only the top 100 sellers are getting redone into resin, everything else is direct only
- GW suggests NOT using files on them as it will scratch the resin
-The usual propaganda about the "increased detail" lighter and better blah blah blah
Umm why didn't they keep the metal models in store and have the resin ones as well, wouldn't that have been easier?
So what they've essentially done is made it really difficult to get the more unpopular models?
Do obliterators fall under this? What else will be direct only?
8742
Post by: MeanGreenStompa
mattyrm wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because GW are a corrupt company who have nothing but contempt for their fans. With any luck, and when all is said and done, this 'Finecost' nonsense will be just another turn on their slow death spiral.
Ive long found HBMCs posts to be bizarre warped ramblings, but this one takes the cake.
You WANT GW to disapear?
I don't, I like 40k, but for the life of me I cannot understand why you post on a website devoted to GW If you have such a distaste for the company, and your sigs are all ridiculous as well, your like some sort of battered wife who constantly slags off her abusive husband, but just cant bring herself to leave him.
Here's the thing as I see it.
I love 40k, love WHFB, LOVE BFG, love Necromunda, love Epic, love Mordheim, love Black Library books (lets have a few more non- SM centric novels folks), loved WHFRP, loved Dark Future, love most of the Citadel Miniatures, love Forgeworld. (love lamp... )
But I despise the company that owns them now, what it has become, what it thinks of it's self and most importantly what it thinks of us. Because I remember when it was not as it is now and have watched it become this paradox, constantly touting The Hobby louder and louder and at the same time becoming less and less about the hobby and far more about trying to be Wayland Yutani when in fact it's just the biggest fish in one of the smallest ponds in the world.
This frustration leads me and perhaps HBMC and others to finally be convinced that GW should fall now. That it should somehow end up shut down and a more enlightened company buy up it's IP and treat it with more care (and learn a lesson about pricing its self to death...). The likelihood of that is remote, but the current situation is frustrating and disappointing to those of us who do love the fluff but hate the corporation.
Something to be remembered whilst the arguments between the Haters and Apologists wage on this forum and others, is that many of us Haters still verymuch love the games and background and minis, we're just angry with the way the company is behaving.
123
Post by: Alpharius
IF anyone gets a Finecast model that has obvious issues (thin/see-through resin, broken/missing parts/etc.), just take it back - there's no way they can refuse replacement/refund.
And, if you get a replacement, open it right there in front of the salesperson...
29585
Post by: AvatarForm
Kirby wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:
I have to hand it to Tom Kirbby. That is the most honest, forthright review of a company's own products I've ever read. The man has integrity and guts to speak out in public like that.
Also I'm impressed by his modelling knowledge. I kind of had him pegged as a suit who only pretended to be interested in the games.
Well done, Mr Kirby!
This is sarcasm right?
Highly unlikely.
You are a treasure and should help me write my present 1750, 1850 and 2000pt Space Wolves lists... pretty please! 
43848
Post by: nectarprime
My LGS confirmed they will be selling Finecast this Saturday, I'll be picking up a couple things. I'm expecting it to be crowded.
16387
Post by: Manchu
AvatarForm wrote:Highly unlikely.
What?
29438
Post by: Kirby
AvatarForm wrote:Kirby wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:
I have to hand it to Tom Kirbby. That is the most honest, forthright review of a company's own products I've ever read. The man has integrity and guts to speak out in public like that.
Also I'm impressed by his modelling knowledge. I kind of had him pegged as a suit who only pretended to be interested in the games.
Well done, Mr Kirby!
This is sarcasm right?
Highly unlikely.
You are a treasure and should help me write my present 1750, 1850 and 2000pt Space Wolves lists... pretty please!
I'm a what now >.<? lol
send an e-mail .
40490
Post by: HAZZER
insaniak wrote:HAZZER wrote:It's worth getting next months white dwarf.(I received it today through the post subscriptions do have there advantages!)..But it is pack with the info about the Citadel Finecast stuff and the battle report of the century.. ...And a what the boxes will look like... ...I honestly prefer the newest ones.
So... a battle report, and some pictures that are already all over the internet? And I can pay for it, you say? Sounds like an awesome deal!
Well it was your choice to read it, (I didn’t put info from WD into a spoiler for nothing)! Automatically Appended Next Post: ph34r wrote:HAZZER wrote:(I received it today through the post subscriptions do have there advantages!)
Yeah, until the WD subscription system changes, and you get your WD a week after everyone else.
EDIT: And by "everyone else" I mean the 4 people that still buy WD in stores.
Well that’s stupid; if GW is going to go that with subscriptions they will sell less and less WD.
33700
Post by: bloodaxegit
Ushabti have become a £30 finecast set of 3!
14732
Post by: Lord Scythican
Any speculation as to what the "classified" blocks are for? Something for Dark Eldar? And something for fantasy? Khalida perhaps? 
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
I would guess the Grotesque and the liche.
14732
Post by: Lord Scythican
Scottywan82 wrote:I would guess the Grotesque and the liche.
Everything looks like HQ though...(I might be mistaken however). Could it maybe be Duke Sliscus?
EDIT: Never mind, I just saw the nid and death jester...
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
Any speculation as to what the "classified" blocks are for?
To add a touch of Warhammer 40K flavor and to pique customer interest. I would say they succeeded.
The Ushabti are released just before Father's Day and my wife told me to go ahead and pre-order a set today when I go to GW Jennifer Square. Now that they are not metal and the price has come down a bit I can't resist.
Besides May 28 being the Finecast release it's also Celebrate the Day at the GW Jennifer Square in Annapolis and there's an Aaron Dembski-Bowden book signing at the new Bowie Battle Bunker. I may have to stop by two stores in the one day.
24779
Post by: Eilif
Frazzled wrote:Eilif wrote:The brand of Superglue is not nearly as important as the type/viscosity. All hobbyists owe it to themselves to have both a thick gap filling superglue and a thin watery superglue on hand at their workspace.
I have a hunch that the many folks who glue them selves to their work were using a thin runny superglue to attach metal parts when they should have been using a thicker gap-fililng super glue.
Likewise, when you've got two parts that are perfectly flat or an existing join that needs strenghthening, don't reach for the thick glue.
I've used many brands and never had a problem with them so long as I was using the right kind.
This is an excellent point. I've been doig this crap for decades and never thought about it like that.
Thanks,
I should have made one more addition to that list. Those assembling metal models and not pinning should definitely consider a third kind of superglue, a thick, rubberized glue. I don't do much with large metal models, so I don't have any of this, but superglues with rubber in them allow you to assemble relatively heavy models and have the joints be relatively shock resisitent.
Gorilla and Bob Smith Industries (the brand you see in model shops with the model shop's name on it) both make super glues like this, but make sure you check the bottle to see that it specifically is rubberized. Not all Gorilla or BSI glues are rubberized.
lunarman wrote:[The difference is that GW don't 'own' their facebook page. Facebook does....
... But protesting on their facebook page is no different to protesting in parliament square in london (if a little less visible ). Because Facebook have set facebook up a public space then it's within my rights to say anything I like and not be moderated
Sorry, but this just isn't true. Asside from some government regulations that may -or may not- allow you to protect your privacy, you have no intrinsic rights on Facebook. Any rights you think you have only exist at the pleasure of facebook. Facebook will always retain the ability to censor you (though it's unlikely that they would) and Facebook has given each member the right to censor their own pages. I feel your frustration with GW, but it makes no sense to claim a right to "unmoderated free speech" in a venue where it simply doesn't exist.
If I may stretch the previously posted metaphor. Facebook may own the building, but when you're on GW's page, you're in thier living room. If they don't like you, out you go.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
No it's all the clamshells. If it is coming in a box (like the Wracks) it isn't up there, but all the "blister" replacements are. Some of the ones up there are definitely not HQ. Zoanthrope, Da Vulcha, etc...
14732
Post by: Lord Scythican
Scottywan82 wrote:No it's all the clamshells. If it is coming in a box (like the Wracks) it isn't up there, but all the "blister" replacements are. Some of the ones up there are definitely not HQ. Zoanthrope, Da Vulcha, etc...
I figured that out right before you posted that.
How many of these replacements are actually new models like the Haemonculus?
666
Post by: Necros
Maybe I missed it.. but has there been any talk of finecasting the metal nids? I've been wanting to get the current hive tyrant, but I figured now I may as well wait for the updated one. Or should I just get the metal one, so I can feel old school and cooler than all the other kids in 10 years?
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
I think the Hive Tyrant is in the selection. Hive Guard and Zoanthropes certainly are.
Metal models can easily be assembled with Araldite or E-6000 epoxy cement.
Not that it matters for GW kits any more.
14732
Post by: Lord Scythican
Necros wrote:Maybe I missed it.. but has there been any talk of finecasting the metal nids? I've been wanting to get the current hive tyrant, but I figured now I may as well wait for the updated one. Or should I just get the metal one, so I can feel old school and cooler than all the other kids in 10 years?
I am pretty sure the hive tyrant is coming out. It might be in a second wave of sorts. I know there was talk somewhere (on GW's site perhaps?) about how the Hive tyrant's sword could be bent 90 degrees and not break.
33700
Post by: bloodaxegit
5 Finecast wracks same price as 5 metal tankbustas. prices haven't gone badly. Yet.
34329
Post by: dantay_xv
The classified might be the new wracks which are done in fine cast. I do not see them on the display poster.
They are in this months WD, looks like a good elite unit.
32928
Post by: obsidianaura
My theory for finecast being on sprues where the old metal wasn't is that with metal they could recycle the spruebut they cant recycle the resin ones and cant be bothered to clean them up.
18509
Post by: endtransmission
Lord Scythican wrote:Necros wrote:Maybe I missed it.. but has there been any talk of finecasting the metal nids? I've been wanting to get the current hive tyrant, but I figured now I may as well wait for the updated one. Or should I just get the metal one, so I can feel old school and cooler than all the other kids in 10 years?
I am pretty sure the hive tyrant is coming out. It might be in a second wave of sorts. I know there was talk somewhere (on GW's site perhaps?) about how the Hive tyrant's sword could be bent 90 degrees and not break.
The latest WD has the Hive tyrant and Zoanthrope in the Finecast releases for this month.
21853
Post by: mattyrm
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Here's the thing as I see it.
I love 40k, love WHFB, LOVE BFG, love Necromunda, love Epic, love Mordheim, love Black Library books (lets have a few more non- SM centric novels folks), loved WHFRP, loved Dark Future, love most of the Citadel Miniatures, love Forgeworld. (love lamp... )
But I despise the company that owns them now, what it has become, what it thinks of it's self and most importantly what it thinks of us. Because I remember when it was not as it is now and have watched it become this paradox, constantly touting The Hobby louder and louder and at the same time becoming less and less about the hobby and far more about trying to be Wayland Yutani when in fact it's just the biggest fish in one of the smallest ponds in the world.
This frustration leads me and perhaps HBMC and others to finally be convinced that GW should fall now. That it should somehow end up shut down and a more enlightened company buy up it's IP and treat it with more care (and learn a lesson about pricing its self to death...). The likelihood of that is remote, but the current situation is frustrating and disappointing to those of us who do love the fluff but hate the corporation.
Something to be remembered whilst the arguments between the Haters and Apologists wage on this forum and others, is that many of us Haters still verymuch love the games and background and minis, we're just angry with the way the company is behaving.
Mate, I agree with 90% of what you say obviously! I dont work for GW, Im just an average Joe who plays a bit of 40k, and clearly id like cheaper minis, but hey ho, thats what companies do, try to make as much cash as possible. I dont see the need for the endless hate and the nerd rage is all i'm saying.
I just think HB is a bit weird. I see the ridiculously aggressive gak he posts and I just.. well.. think the blokes got some kinda mental problem.
Other than that of course I agree with you, they charge alot and they take the piss somewhat, Im just saying I dont see the point in the weird turbo rage that people display.. Dont most big corporations do the exact same thing?!
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
Try at explaining this number two. I think some people are being a bit too literal, waaaaay too literal. There are 2 "classified" blocks on the poster, there are many more than 2 unreleased models. It's just a marketing teaser to build anticipation for things to come.
958
Post by: mikhaila
endtransmission wrote:Lord Scythican wrote:Necros wrote:Maybe I missed it.. but has there been any talk of finecasting the metal nids? I've been wanting to get the current hive tyrant, but I figured now I may as well wait for the updated one. Or should I just get the metal one, so I can feel old school and cooler than all the other kids in 10 years?
I am pretty sure the hive tyrant is coming out. It might be in a second wave of sorts. I know there was talk somewhere (on GW's site perhaps?) about how the Hive tyrant's sword could be bent 90 degrees and not break.
The latest WD has the Hive tyrant and Zoanthrope in the Finecast releases for this month.
I got both of those in my shipment yesterday, on sale on Saturday.
5859
Post by: Ravenous D
Asuron wrote:
Umm why didn't they keep the metal models in store and have the resin ones as well, wouldn't that have been easier?
So what they've essentially done is made it really difficult to get the more unpopular models?
Do obliterators fall under this? What else will be direct only?
There is a list in another thread, There's some LotRs stuff on there so I wouldnt be too worried.
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Post by: mikhaila
Something to be remembered whilst the arguments between the Haters and Apologists wage on this forum and others, is that many of us Haters still verymuch love the games and background and minis, we're just angry with the way the company is behaving.
And vice versa.) I tend not to join into the hatefests, and find them just a waste of energy. And I'll defend GW where they should be defended. But never assume apologists aren't angry too.
I was pissed as hell at the lack of info I got as a store, and then trying to order in thousands of dollars of finecast at a moments notice. Budget went out the window for the month.
It's all degrees of angry apologists and loving haters.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
mattyrm wrote:
Mate, I agree with 90% of what you say obviously! I dont work for GW, Im just an average Joe who plays a bit of 40k, and clearly id like cheaper minis, but hey ho, thats what companies do, try to make as much cash as possible. I dont see the need for the endless hate and the nerd rage is all i'm saying.
I just think HB is a bit weird. I see the ridiculously aggressive gak he posts and I just.. well.. think the blokes got some kinda mental problem.
Other than that of course I agree with you, they charge alot and they take the piss somewhat, Im just saying I dont see the point in the weird turbo rage that people display.. Dont most big corporations do the exact same thing?!
HBMC isn't weird, he uses flagrant terminology to express things that I mostly agree with, that's all. It's just the other side to the same coin where the apologists all shriek 'If you don't like it, stop playing' etc. You also use flagrant terminology in the OT forum to describe folks who's ideals you don't hold with... As a softie liberal tree hugging leftist, I remember this... 
They ( GW) do take the piss, a great deal imo with the 'tin cost price rise' followed by the 'plastics to metals price rise' followed by the 'metals to (cheaper) resin production price rise'... It's an ongoing slew of insulting and aggressive sales hikes that's really quite difficult for me to understand. Couple that with the shocking price of GW minis outside of Europe/USA and it's not difficult to see where the real anger is coming from.
Most big corporations could not survive the kind of negative press their customers being constantly pissed off with them would generate, because most real corporations have serious competition to worry about and so go out of their way to get on with their customer base, not fist them in the arse with a price rise every time a leaf falls from a tree.
When was the last time you saw a GW Sale? A GW voucher in a magazine or online? A promotional deal?
What I suspect would be amazingly healthy for GW is 2 or 3 serious contenders for it's market space. So I am cheering on mantic, PP and the rest to succeed.
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Post by: endtransmission
mikhaila wrote:I got both of those in my shipment yesterday, on sale on Saturday.
How do they Finecast models actually compare to the metals? The WD article went on about how much of the Green's detail was kept in the resin compared to the metals; it showed the resin next to a green... but failed to show a metal version to back up their claims.
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Post by: mattyrm
MeanGreenStompa wrote: You also use flagrant terminology in the OT forum to describe folks who's ideals you don't hold with... As a softie liberal tree hugging leftist, I remember this...
Of course mate, but that makes perfect sense! Think about it!
When your arguing about peoples most deep seated beliefs, the things that make them the person that they are, the things that make you YOU (your Religious, political views, sexuality, job, worklife and familiy for example) you CAN get super wound up, and you can get emotional about it! That makes sense!
But the same level of indignation and rage because the company whose products you love takes the piss? You know, like nearly all the huge corporations do?
That's weird right!?
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Post by: Cerebrium
mikhaila wrote:Something to be remembered whilst the arguments between the Haters and Apologists wage on this forum and others, is that many of us Haters still verymuch love the games and background and minis, we're just angry with the way the company is behaving.
And vice versa.) I tend not to join into the hatefests, and find them just a waste of energy. And I'll defend GW where they should be defended. But never assume apologists aren't angry too.
I was pissed as hell at the lack of info I got as a store, and then trying to order in thousands of dollars of finecast at a moments notice. Budget went out the window for the month.
It's all degrees of angry apologists and loving haters.
This is my view summed up. I still LIKE 40k and FB, but the company behind it is what annoys me. I'll continue to play, but all my purchases will be second-hand or third-party.
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Post by: Necros
endtransmission wrote:mikhaila wrote:I got both of those in my shipment yesterday, on sale on Saturday.
How do they Finecast models actually compare to the metals? The WD article went on about how much of the Green's detail was kept in the resin compared to the metals; it showed the resin next to a green... but failed to show a metal version to back up their claims.
Not showing the metals probably because the difference in detail isn't gonna be noticeable enough to matter, they just say it is so we'll all buy the new stuff. They're even using the same old box photos for new finecast models...
We'll have to wait for comparison shots on Beasts of War, and hope they don't get taken down the net day.
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Post by: htj
mattyrm wrote: When your arguing about peoples most deep seated beliefs, the things that make them the person that they are, the things that make you YOU (your Religious, political views, sexuality, job, worklife and familiy for example) you CAN get super wound up, and you can get emotional about it! That makes sense!
But the same level of indignation and rage because the company whose products you love takes the piss? You know, like nearly all the huge corporations do?
That's weird right!?
Not in my experience. People tend to get the most upset about the more mundane things in their life. Work life issues are no more important to most folks than their personal interests, to use that example. It's best to try and keep your anger in check and focussed in the right direction though, you're right, but I wouldn't consider it weird for people to become vociferous about bad things that happen in a world that is directly related to their enjoyments in life.
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Post by: endtransmission
Necros wrote:Not showing the metals probably because the difference in detail isn't gonna be noticeable enough to matter, they just say it is so we'll all buy the new stuff. They're even using the same old box photos for new finecast models...
Pretty much my thought on the subject too, but I wanted to check from someone who's actually seen them
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Post by: mch21689
I just can't believe they released a metal crowe then turned around and redid him in resin not 2 months later......
I saw the SKU list....113 new resins. 25% price increase on average across the board.
Alot of older OOP stuff that was desperately needing to be reprinted....but more so just alot of popular models they are hoping will sell fast.
No assassins :\
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Post by: Kanluwen
mch21689 wrote:I just can't believe they released a metal crowe then turned around and redid him in resin not 2 months later......
Using the metal molds.
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Post by: mch21689
Kanluwen wrote:mch21689 wrote:I just can't believe they released a metal crowe then turned around and redid him in resin not 2 months later......
Using the metal molds.
Yeah I know the sculpts are 90% the same. Just disappointed since my metal one took a bit of work since the backpack was very uneven :\ though guess the resin might suffer from the same issue if it was a mold problem and not just a bad cast.
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Post by: cygnnus
Necros wrote:endtransmission wrote:mikhaila wrote:I got both of those in my shipment yesterday, on sale on Saturday.
How do they Finecast models actually compare to the metals? The WD article went on about how much of the Green's detail was kept in the resin compared to the metals; it showed the resin next to a green... but failed to show a metal version to back up their claims.
Not showing the metals probably because the difference in detail isn't gonna be noticeable enough to matter, they just say it is so we'll all buy the new stuff. They're even using the same old box photos for new finecast models...
We'll have to wait for comparison shots on Beasts of War, and hope they don't get taken down the net day.
Aren't the 'Eavy Metal paint jobs usually done with the resin masters anyway? When GW went to the greenstuff master to resin to production mold process, theyve had resin "masters" laying about I suspect the current studio paint jobs for the box pix, et al are already of resin castings vice metal. That'd make sense from a timeliness as well as quality standpoint.
Still doesn't answer, for what it's worth, if Finecast is really worth any quality premium though...
Valete,
JohnS
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Post by: aka_mythos
obsidianaura wrote:My theory for finecast being on sprues where the old metal wasn't is that with metal they could recycle the spruebut they cant recycle the resin ones and cant be bothered to clean them up.
I know there is a resin injection molding system commercially available which might require similar spruing to plastic models, it would also mitigate air bubbles and issues with inconcistencies with mixing resin since most of those systems can mix by volume as needed.
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Post by: BobbaFett
I have just seen this photo in a forum.
Is this fake or something? is this the quality of a resin miniature? are they changing from metal to... this?
I´m really curious about it.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Nope, that's apparently the real thing.
Having a metal Draigo, I can actually say it was worse cleaning the metal flash off than the way that is laid out.
That kind of resin 'flash' will come off in many cases with simply sneezing at it.
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Post by: sluggaslugga
I only have one question about this... Will there be a mounted WoC lord as Finecast?
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Post by: CURNOW
and as the price of resin has increased draigo will only be supplyed with one arm :]
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Post by: kronk
CURNOW wrote:and as the price of resin has increased draigo will only be supplyed with one arm :]
To be fair, Draigo only needs one arm to kick ass.
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Post by: insaniak
Kanluwen wrote:mch21689 wrote:I just can't believe they released a metal crowe then turned around and redid him in resin not 2 months later......
Using the metal molds.
They're not.
cygnnus wrote:Aren't the 'Eavy Metal paint jobs usually done with the resin masters anyway? When GW went to the greenstuff master to resin to production mold process, theyve had resin "masters" laying about I suspect the current studio paint jobs for the box pix, et al are already of resin castings vice metal. That'd make sense from a timeliness as well as quality standpoint.
Somebody in one of these threads (not going back to check them all) mentioned getting an email back from GW that said pretty much that, yes. Of course, whether they're the same resin is another matter entirely, but it does give them the leeway to say 'no, these display models were always resin, see how good they look!'
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Post by: Kanluwen
insaniak wrote:Kanluwen wrote:mch21689 wrote:I just can't believe they released a metal crowe then turned around and redid him in resin not 2 months later......
Using the metal molds.
They're not.
Didn't someone 'in the know' say that the whole reason they picked this particular process was because it was doable with the metal molds?
cygnnus wrote:Aren't the 'Eavy Metal paint jobs usually done with the resin masters anyway? When GW went to the greenstuff master to resin to production mold process, they've had resin "masters" laying about I suspect the current studio paint jobs for the box pix, et al are already of resin castings vice metal. That'd make sense from a timeliness as well as quality standpoint.
Somebody in one of these threads (not going back to check them all) mentioned getting an email back from GW that said pretty much that, yes. Of course, whether they're the same resin is another matter entirely, but it does give them the leeway to say 'no, these display models were always resin, see how good they look!'
Makes the most sense to do it that way though.
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Post by: Balance
Kanluwen wrote:Didn't someone 'in the know' say that the whole reason they picked this particular process was because it was doable with the metal molds?
People 'in the know' say a lot of things.
The sprue frame looks like what you'd see for plastic. I guess it's possible these are made for GW's metals and we don't see them because they're chopped off, but I'm guessing the 'Finecast' molds are made from the same master (and should thus have the same parts layout). Presumably the mol and cast tech have similar profiles as far as allowed undercuts and such so that there isn't a need to resculpt most minis.
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Post by: insaniak
Kanluwen wrote:Didn't someone 'in the know' say that the whole reason they picked this particular process was because it was doable with the metal molds?
That was one of the initial rumours, yes. It's clearly false, since the metals don't use sprues.
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Post by: Przemas
... but we still don't know whether those pics show a real thing .
IMO there's exactly the same chance they show some gakky recaster stuff
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Post by: Goliath
Draigo is a model that I've wanted to get for quite a while, and I think, judging from that photo, that I'll wait until after the changeover to buy him, because the (apparent) detail on that photo is insane.
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Post by: insaniak
Przemas wrote:... but we still don't know whether those pics show a real thing .
IMO there's exactly the same chance they show some gakky recaster stuff
The reviews posted by people who have had them in had confirmed it pretty solidly.
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Post by: Scottywan82
kronk wrote:CURNOW wrote:and as the price of resin has increased draigo will only be supplyed with one arm :]
To be fair, Draigo only needs one arm to kick ass.
Like the drummer from Def Leppard?
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Post by: Przemas
insaniak wrote:
The reviews posted by people who have had them in had confirmed it pretty solidly.
I'm sceptical mostly because that sort of sprueing that's seen on the "leaked" pics does not make a lot of sense to me, no matter what sort of casting they have used (centrifugal, RIM, vacuum etc.) .
Will need to wait 2 days before I'll be able to decide what I think about those
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Post by: Worglock
cygnnus wrote:
Aren't the 'Eavy Metal paint jobs usually done with the resin masters anyway? When GW went to the greenstuff master to resin to production mold process, theyve had resin "masters" laying about I suspect the current studio paint jobs for the box pix, et al are already of resin castings vice metal. That'd make sense from a timeliness as well as quality standpoint.
Not to my knowledge. Only info I ever heard about the "display model" was that it was generally the first one out of the mold.
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Post by: nectarprime
Przemas wrote:insaniak wrote:
The reviews posted by people who have had them in had confirmed it pretty solidly.
I'm sceptical mostly because that sort of sprueing that's seen on the "leaked" pics does not make a lot of sense to me, no matter what sort of casting they have used (centrifugal, RIM, vacuum etc.) .
Will need to wait 2 days before I'll be able to decide what I think about those
Isn't it possible that they are injection molded, like the normal GW plastic kits are? That would account for the similar sprues.
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Post by: insaniak
Worglock wrote:Not to my knowledge. Only info I ever heard about the "display model" was that it was generally the first one out of the mold.
As a part of the mouldmaking process, they used to produce a run of resin masters to check detail and castability. These were shown at Games Days from time to time, and on more than one occasion lead to rumours of 'x' model being produced in plastic, as the grey resin looked pretty much identical to plastic in photos.
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Post by: Przemas
nectarprime wrote:
Isn't it possible that they are injection molded, like the normal GW plastic kits are? That would account for the similar sprues.
I'd say no. Injection moulded minis are usually cast in steel moulds so you can't have undercuts.
But my guess is that it may be RIM casted - sort of thing that for example Czech modelmakers have been doing for years. It's basically low pressure injection moulding that works with flexible moulds.
Still got to admit that sort of sprueing does not make a lot of sense to me.
The more I read the topic the more surprised I am. If those pics are true they look rather awful. I know the models would look cool after cleaning but when I try to see those through eyes of someone new to the hobby I'm getting frightened .
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Post by: S'jet
Havent read the whole thread so someone may have mentioned Mcvey Studio, and if these Finecast models match that quality, we should be excited, and it'll be worth the price increase to me at least, especially for my HQs
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Post by: Kilkrazy
I've mentioned Studio McVey a number of times.
Studio McVey use a different kind of resin though. The new GW stuff apparently is very flexible.
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Post by: Mr Proudhoof
I haven't yet commented on the whole resin change, but after seeing the images in this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/371719.page#2856746 I'm not so confident
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Post by: StarFyre
So I'll take a chance and try to get the carnosaur on saturday, so, since I have the metal one here (for sale on ebay), sat I will take comparison photos of the 2 to see how this resin does with larger metal models.
If I forget, please someone message me if by saturday night (eastern time) i havent posted the pics/comparison.
regards,
Sanjay
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Post by: CadianCommander
Someone on GW's FB just posted a link to Mantic where it states:
"Continuing on from yesterday’s new Soul Reaver knights, we’re proud to introduce our new Plastic Resin Undead Wraiths. Plastic Resin is a superior material to metal in that it holds detail like Resin, but with all the benefits of plastic. That’s not the best bit however, oh no. We’ve managed to double the number of figures into the box at the same price as the previous metal set. As we all know, the price of metal is getting expensive and so by switching the popular Wraiths to this more affordable material, we’ve passed on the cost savings to you guys! How’s that for value for money?
Way to go, GW.
Another guy said: have to say, did my first fine cast mini today, officially hate it. Already broke the top of my librarians stave.
If it does shatter and break the way the rumours suggest, It's terrible for me because I constantly drop my minis whilst working on them, let alone gaming (dunno what's happened to the motor control in my hands the last few years).
I'm almost wondering if it's another ploy to keep the money coming in - people won't only have to pay for new models, but to pay for replacements of the ones that have shattered.
At least metal (as much as I hate it) and plastic (as much as I love it) doesn't shatter.
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Post by: Stella Cadente
H.B.M.C. wrote:nectarprime wrote:The flash doesn't look any worse than alot of other GW plastic models. Can't wait to pick up a new resin model.
I've never seen a GW model with that much flash on it.
obviously not built many plastic cadians, each individual model has enough flash usually to build a whole new box of cadians
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Post by: AvatarForm
Kanluwen wrote:mch21689 wrote:I just can't believe they released a metal crowe then turned around and redid him in resin not 2 months later......
Using the metal molds.
Many models that they are re-doing do not deserve the treatment and are due for a re-sculpt. Ie. Kharn the betrayer.
Scottywan82 wrote:kronk wrote:CURNOW wrote:and as the price of resin has increased draigo will only be supplyed with one arm :]
To be fair, Draigo only needs one arm to kick ass.
Like the drummer from Def Leppard?
The drummer from Deff Lappard had only one arm? Wow! (showing my age to know who they are)
S'jet wrote:Havent read the whole thread so someone may have mentioned Mcvey Studio, and if these Finecast models match that quality, we should be excited, and it'll be worth the price increase to me at least, especially for my HQs
McVey are far superior sculpts. Sorry, but they did not re-sculpt the master, these moulds were made using the metal master which is not superior in detail to its metal counterparts. Had GW re-sculpted these in higher detail, a la McVey, I would feel the price rise justified. However, they did not.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Przemas wrote:insaniak wrote:
The reviews posted by people who have had them in had confirmed it pretty solidly.
I'm sceptical mostly because that sort of sprueing that's seen on the "leaked" pics does not make a lot of sense to me, no matter what sort of casting they have used (centrifugal, RIM, vacuum etc.) .
Will need to wait 2 days before I'll be able to decide what I think about those
I can confirm that the sprue pics are real.
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Post by: Scottywan82
AvatarForm wrote:
The drummer from Deff Lappard had only one arm? Wow! (showing my age to know who they are)
Thank you the Blood Hound Gang.
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Post by: StarFyre
I wish the sanguinor got this treatment...
even before the blood angels books, there was this special angelic being in D&D (celestial paragon) Zaphniel...looks pretty much like the sanguinor but bald head.
I could sand down the metal one but it be easier to convert the head on this pesin version (pesin= plastic resin)
Sanjay
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Post by: cygnnus
StarFyre wrote:I wish the sanguinor got this treatment...
even before the blood angels books, there was this special angelic being in D&D (celestial paragon) Zaphniel...looks pretty much like the sanguinor but bald head.
I could sand down the metal one but it be easier to convert the head on this pesin version (pesin= plastic resin)
Sanjay
I tend to like "plesin" better myself...
Vale,
JohnS
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Post by: StarFyre
Sure..."plesin" it is
Sanjay
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Post by: BrassScorpion
Was at a local GW store today. When I asked for an idea how many of the new Finecast models they'd have for sale on Saturday I was informed that even the store staff aren't allowed to know till Friday night after closing! Store operators have been instructed not to open their Finecast shipments till close of business Friday to avoid their discussing it or showing it in any way before Saturday morning. And you can guess the likely penalty for violating that edict.
They've also been told to clear all the existing metal stock off the shelves including hybrid kits. If you didn't buy the metal you may have wanted already, it's gone.
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Post by: Eldar Craft
I guess my feelings are mixed. I'm excited to see what kind of conversion(jet bike seer council) possibilities come out of this. I also appreciate the benefits this may have to really high end painters. That being said I have not had a lot of conversion experience with resin and I hear it's kind of a pain. I also worry that some models like the new grotesques are less cool than some of the models that have had more attention electronically. I guess we'll see where it goes hopefully it really adds to the game and is not just about the profit GW could make. I appreciate they've got to make a profit I just hope they don't screw us too bad on price hikes (I assume production costs will go down for them after the initial releases) and that the new kits come out well.
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Post by: PrimarchX
My FLGS has a ton of the new FineCast on display. My many-months-on-order SM Libby in Terminator Armor looks very nice in resin (I can pick it up Saturday). I'll be getting a resin Astorath as well (I HATE that model in metal).
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Post by: schadenfreude
Any news on release dates of specific models in finecast?
Is there any kind of schedule released by GW yet, or a list of models already available?
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Post by: Le Grognard
schadenfreude wrote:Any news on release dates of specific models in finecast?
Is there any kind of schedule released by GW yet, or a list of models already available?
Supposed to be up on the website @ 1200am GMT. Blogpost: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16800012a
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Post by: HAZZER
todays post on GW
Or here's the words;
GW wrote:As I write this post, the hours are counting down to the Citadel Finecast release. In about eight hours' time, around midnight in the UK, all the Citadel Finecast miniatures will be added to the website. At a similar time1, on the other side of the world, the first Games Workshop stores will open in New Zealand, their shelves packed with new Citadel Finecast miniatures. As the sun creeps across the world, each store will open in turn, from Australia to Japan, to Italy to England, all the way across the Atlantic to the USA (and, or course, all the countries in between) Like many of you out there around the world, I'll be at my local Hobby Centre as early as humanly possible, as I want to pick up a couple of new models too.
Every Hobby Centre will carry the Citadel Finecast range, so make sure you're there, in store, to see the models first hand. There will be plenty available, but there isn't an endless supply on launch day, so make sure you get there early to get your hands on them. If you really, really, really can't get to your local store (and it had better me a good excuse like 'it's 3000 miles away' not 'the Ogre-in-law is visiting'), then we will have every Citadel Finecast miniature available to order from the website. We'll despatch your order first thing on Monday morning.
As this is such a big event for the hobby we've had lots of you calling customer services, emailing us at What's New Today and asking us questions on Facebook. Nearly all of the questions have been about how you work with Citadel Finecast miniatures. We thought, since many of you will be getting your hands on them this weekend, we would create a handy guide to working with Citadel Finecast.
Sprues and frames: Most Citadel Finecast miniatures come on a sprue or frame, but not every model needs them, so you may find ones without - this is completely normal so don't panic if you think you're missing a sprue.
Flash: You will all be familiar with flash on metal models. Citadel Finecast resin flows even more smoothly than metal does in the moulds. This means that a miniature might have very little flash, but some have a lot, which might look unusual. Don't worry, this flash is easy to remove (quite often you can remove most of it with your fingers).
Mould lines: As with flash, there may be mould lines on a model. Mould lines come away very easily if you give them a light backwards scrape towards you with a modelling knife. Try to avoid using Modelling Files though, as they will chew through the resin far too easily (the phrase 'they go through bone like butter', springs to mind).
Safety: Citadel Finecast is made from our own 'secret recipe'; it's absolutely safe and does not require you to wear a face mask. The 12+ on our packaging is about the skill and craft required to do our hobby, not about the material. We make sure that all our products are tested by external professionals and Citadel Finecast is no exception.
Bubbles: Sometimes you will see small bubbles on the surface of Citadel Finecast models. These are easy filled with a dab of Super Glue or, if small enough, will disappear when you undercoat the model.
Gluing: Always use Super Glue on Citadel Finecast miniatures and not Plastic Glue. The bond that can be achieved with just a small dab of Super Glue is so strong that large components such as wings can be glued quickly and without the need for pinning.
Durability: Citadel Finecast is light and strong. As an example, the Citadel Finecast Azhag the Slaughterer was dropped from a height of 3 feet (alright, I accidentally knocked it off my desk) and it landed on the floor totally unharmed. If that had been the metal version of the miniature, I'd have spent the rest of the day pinning, gluing and repainting it! If you don't believe me, click on the picture and you can see how just how flexible the resin is as I bend Skulltaker's sword.
Painting: Simply clean up your model, undercoat it and start painting. There's no need to wash it at all.
Conversions: Citadel Finecast resin is an amazing material for converting models. It's easy to cut, reposition and glue and it works fantastically well with Green Stuff. As I mentioned above, try to avoid using files or sanding it, as you might accidentally remove some of the detail if you get too carried away.
There's plenty more information about Citadel Finecast miniatures in June's issue of White Dwarf and our Hobby Centre staff have been learning all about it over the last couple of days, so they're more than willing to help you with you first miniatures when you pop into the store this weekend.
To whet your appetite for tomorrow morning (consider this the Citadel Finecast hors d'oeuvre), we've got a few painted models to show off. Remember our first Citadel Finecast miniatures from Tuesday's post? Well Chris, Nick, Andrew and myself managed to get ours finished in just two days. Here's how we got on:
Chris: Something I found instantly useful was the picture of the miniature on the packaging as it gave me a reference to work from. To break up the large amount of black on the model I used two mixes: Chaos Black and Kommando Khaki for the cloth and Chaos Black and Codex Grey for the leather and gun. Working with a Citadel Finecast miniature for the first time was a great experience - it's really easy to cut off the sprue and clean up. The only slight issue I had was a tiny air bubble in his hat, which was easily filled with Super Glue and then cleaned with the back of a Hobby Knife.
Nick: Gûlavhar was just such a joy to build and paint. It took me less than ten minutes to completely clean the model and build it, which gave me loads more time to spend painting him (well, two days...). The level of detail on the miniature is just astounding and I was completely awe-struck by how well the detail came out on his wings. All I had to do was lightly drybrush them, the fine lines on the model did the rest of the work for me.
Andrew: I didn't waste any time getting started with Queek, assembling him as soon as I got home. The model went together really easily, the arms sticking quickly in place with a tiny dab of super glue and after scraping off a couple of mould lines he was ready to be painted. I've had a colour scheme in mind for Queek ever since I started the army - rather than the bright red armour that he's traditionally shown in, I wanted him to be clad in green to match the rest of Clan Septik and I was inspired by how Keith Robertson painted the barding for his Chaos Lord in December 2008's 'Eavy Metal Masterclass. This Masterclass, in fact
Dan: I can honestly say that this model was one of the nicest figures I have ever painted - it was just so easy to work with. The resin is very easy to clean up and a real joy to paint. Sometimes I can cut corners when I'm painting to try and get a unit done quicker, but I knew I had to spend every spare second I had between Tuesday and today painting it. An interesting thing I did find was when painting the cape. I needed to paint the cape hood, which was behind the head of the hammer. Solution: simply bend the hammer slightly out of place to paint behind it. This material is just pure awesome to work with!
However, as we've said several times now, we can take some great pictures of miniatures, but they really don't do the models justice, you have to hold it in your hands to believe it. Right, I'm completely worn out after writing all that, so I'm heading off home to get some rest for the big day tomorrow. For all of you out there, wherever you are, head down to your local store to see the new range in person for the very first time. We'll be back on Tuesday because it's a Bank Holiday here in the UK on Monday (yes, another one) and we'll all be building and painting our new Citadel Finecast miniatures.
1. I spent ages trying to figure out the International Time Zones and got very confused by the whole thing, it was like watching Back to the Future Part II all over again, but without hover boards.
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Posted by Dan on Friday, 27 May
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Post by: Grot 6
I just feel like clubbing a thousand baby seals to death after reading that post.
DOOOM!
1
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Post by: Deefect
One more day, YAY! ;D
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Post by: Kilkrazy
I can't say I'm familiar with flash on metal models. I've seen it very occasionally on metal and polystyrene moulded items.
It's a sign of worn or misaligned moulds. It's not a regular part of the production process. It's a defect. Proper QA would prevent flashy kits getting packaged.
That part of the announcement sounds like GW making an excuse in advance for a bunch of low quality products.
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Post by: mikhaila
Heading into the shop in a few minutes to unpack them all and get them up on the shelves, with a "Yes, you have to wait until Saturday" sign.)
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Post by: Blood Angel 17
Other than the Haemonculus's sword I actually think he is a very nice model, and really with the resin how hard will it be to cut it off and replace it with something from the Wracks
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
BrassScorpion wrote:Store operators have been instructed not to open their Finecast shipments till close of business Friday to avoid their discussing it or showing it in any way before Saturday morning.
Why? What for??? How does this make any sense? What is the thought process at GW for this? 1. Send out new 'Finecost' range to stores. 2. Make it so no one is allowed to look at it until the day of release. 3. Threaten the jobs of our staff if they look. 4. Ensure that they don't discuss our new product with potential customers. 5. ??? 6. Profit! I mean Jesus-mothing-fething-Christ-on-a-God-damned-mother-fething-pogo-stick - Do these brain dead imbeciles not even understand the most basic and most obvious tennants of ADVERTISING, or even how ' word of mouth' works? My God... how STUPID are they???
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Post by: Le Grognard
H.B.M.C. wrote:BrassScorpion wrote:Store operators have been instructed not to open their Finecast shipments till close of business Friday to avoid their discussing it or showing it in any way before Saturday morning.
Why? What for???
How does this make any sense? What is the thought process at GW for this?
1. Send out new 'Finecost' range to stores.
2. Make it so no one is allowed to look at it until the day of release.
3. Threaten the jobs of our staff if they look.
4. Ensure that they don't discuss our new product with potential customers.
5. ???
6. Profit!
I mean Jesus-mothing-fething-Christ-on-a-God-damned-mother-fething-pogo-stick - Do these brain dead imbeciles not even understand the most basic and most obvious tennants of ADVERTISING, or even how ' word of mouth' works?
My God... how STUPID are they???
I'm sure they're believing that their stores will be chocked full of rabid mouth-foaming fanboys who will buy up all the models, especially since they're 'limited' in this first release. It used to be we would have examples and talk up new products weeks if not months in advance. Seems now its just keep it a secret and they'll want it even more type of thing. Good luck with that.
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Post by: Adam LongWalker
H.M.B.C
You are as blunt as a sledge hammer but keep telling it like it is bro. It makes the GW Ra' Ra's go into a tizzy.
I made my concerns about the material in the new product and I'll stand my concerns until corrected.
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Post by: Le Grognard
Adam LongWalker wrote:H.M.B.C
You are as blunt as a sledge hammer but keep telling it like it is bro. It makes the GW Ra' Ra's go into a tizzy.
I made my concerns about the material in the new product and I'll stand my concerns until corrected.
If this was Facebook, I'd hit the 'Like' button.
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Post by: LunaHound
H.B.M.C. wrote:BrassScorpion wrote:Store operators have been instructed not to open their Finecast shipments till close of business Friday to avoid their discussing it or showing it in any way before Saturday morning.
Why? What for???
How does this make any sense? What is the thought process at GW for this?
1. Send out new 'Finecost' range to stores.
2. Make it so no one is allowed to look at it until the day of release.
3. Threaten the jobs of our staff if they look.
4. Ensure that they don't discuss our new product with potential customers.
5. ???
6. Profit!
I mean Jesus-mothing-fething-Christ-on-a-God-damned-mother-fething-pogo-stick - Do these brain dead imbeciles not even understand the most basic and most obvious tennants of ADVERTISING, or even how ' word of mouth' works?
My God... how STUPID are they???
It builds up the hype for the impatient teen boys.
You know like , they get so hyped and they just splurt all over their pants within the first minute?
its like that , same mentality but with compulsive buy instead.
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Post by: mikhaila
LunaHound wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:BrassScorpion wrote:Store operators have been instructed not to open their Finecast shipments till close of business Friday to avoid their discussing it or showing it in any way before Saturday morning.
Why? What for???
How does this make any sense? What is the thought process at GW for this?
1. Send out new 'Finecost' range to stores.
2. Make it so no one is allowed to look at it until the day of release.
3. Threaten the jobs of our staff if they look.
4. Ensure that they don't discuss our new product with potential customers.
5. ???
6. Profit!
I mean Jesus-mothing-fething-Christ-on-a-God-damned-mother-fething-pogo-stick - Do these brain dead imbeciles not even understand the most basic and most obvious tennants of ADVERTISING, or even how ' word of mouth' works?
My God... how STUPID are they???
It builds up the hype for the impatient teen boys.
You know like , they get so hyped and they just splurt all over their pants within the first minute?
its like that , same mentality but with compulsive buy instead.
GW does it on purpose, just to see HMBC blow a gasket.
I haven't had any teen boys in asking about finecast, just a steady stream of veteran modelers. I won't be selling the new models until tomorrow, but unlike a GW store, I can open a box and let people look at blisters. All mine are up on the wall now and we've had a lot of guys in to take a look.
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Post by: insaniak
LunaHound wrote:It builds up the hype for the impatient teen boys.
You know like , they get so hyped and they just splurt all over their pants within the first minute?
its like that , same mentality but with compulsive buy instead.
Except it's not. You can't build hype by keeping everything you do a secret. There's nothing to hype.
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Post by: Ascalam
Area 51
just saying...
I find the iron secrecy curtain annoying as hell, personally. I'm a 20 some year veteran of GW, but these last few years i've been going more and more off them...
I'm not quite at the point of selling all my armies but i am getting pretty frustrated.
Between the blatant IOM favoritism, the finecast move, the feth-you attitude towards their customers (barring the actual CS guys).. Yeah..
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Post by: Blood Angel 17
On the GW website they have new category for each games system up labeled Citadel Finecast
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Post by: Shivan Reaper
Blood Angel 17 wrote:On the GW website they have new category for each games system up labeled Citadel Finecast
And typical GW, not a thing on the pages for any of them. Also, I noticed they replaced the Astronomican link with a finecast one, curious if this is just a web design error, or if they are using this as an opportunity to just get rid of it, considering they haven't updated it in two months anyway.
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Post by: Eilif
H.B.M.C. wrote:
I mean Jesus-mothing-fething-Christ-on-a-God-damned-mother-fething-pogo-stick - Do these brain dead imbeciles not even understand the most basic and most obvious tennants of ADVERTISING, or even how 'word of mouth' works?
My God... how STUPID are they???
Stupid. Like a Fox.
I'm afraid you don't get it. They've got word of mouth going with the steps below.
1) Alot of rumors for months
2) A text announcement
3) Pictorial anouncements a few days later
4) All leading up to a unified unveiling tomorrow.
All adds up to TONS of word of mouth. In fact, Dakka's been talking about it nonstop for days. Tons of people, doubters and fanboys allike are going to check out the models on Saturday, and alot of them will buy product whether out of excitement or just curiosity.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as fed up with GW as you, but you've vastly underestimated how effective thier word of mouth campaign has been. If there's no such thing as bad press, then it bears notice that Finecast has been on the tips of our typing figures for two strait weeks.
That's a win for GW.
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Post by: Darth Bob
Shivan Reaper wrote:
And typical GW, not a thing on the pages for any of them.
Alright, good, because I thought there was something wrong with my browser. Should have known to blame GW first, it seems like the cool thing to do nowadays.
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Post by: Sidstyler
1) Alot of rumors for months
Rumors that they've been trying desperately to stop for a while now. I don't see how you could argue that the rumors we have are GW's doing when the rumor going now is that they're very upset about the leaks and that they're going to "permanently" shut up the rumor mongers by not letting anything get out until a week before the release.
2) A text announcement
Which, once again, they'll be putting a stop to if the rumors are true.
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Post by: sonofruss
Eilif wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:
I mean Jesus-mothing-fething-Christ-on-a-God-damned-mother-fething-pogo-stick - Do these brain dead imbeciles not even understand the most basic and most obvious tennants of ADVERTISING, or even how 'word of mouth' works?
My God... how STUPID are they???
Stupid. Like a Fox.
I'm afraid you don't get it. They've got word of mouth going with the steps below.
1) Alot of rumors for months
2) A text announcement
3) Pictorial anouncements a few days later
4) All leading up to a unified unveiling tomorrow.
All adds up to TONS of word of mouth. In fact, Dakka's been talking about it nonstop for days. Tons of people, doubters and fanboys allike are going to check out the models on Saturday, and alot of them will buy product whether out of excitement or just curiosity.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as fed up with GW as you, but you've vastly underestimated how effective thier word of mouth campaign has been. If there's no such thing as bad press, then it bears notice that Finecast has been on the tips of our typing figures for two strait weeks.
That's a win for GW.
For this product maybe but all future products will come out of the blue there will be no warning or info on what is being released until the day it hits the shelves.
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Post by: Dr. Temujin
Man, sure is alot of hate going on here.
I do not mean to insult anyone here, and I'm sure everyone who is pissed off at the resin change have their reasons. Yes, the whole secrecy thing doesn't really make sense to me, either, and the online articles are absolute . They sound like the developers want to make sweet, sweet love to these things by writing a ballad.
Personally, I'm going to reserve my judgment until I can look at them with my own two eyes.
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Post by: insaniak
Eilif wrote:I'm afraid you don't get it. They've got word of mouth going with the steps below.
1) Alot of rumors for months
2) A text announcement
3) Pictorial anouncements a few days later
4) All leading up to a unified unveiling tomorrow.
On the down side, the spread of rumours instead of actual marketing releases meant that people had to figure out for themselves what was actually going on. By this point, people have already made up their minds as to whether or not resin is a good thing, and the fact that GW announce the day before the release that, 'Hey, by the way, our resin is easy to work with and safe and all awesome and stuff' is too little too late... People who knew nothing about resin have had several months worth of other people telling them that resin is horrible and brittle and toxic and made from ground-up puppies.
People who might have been excited about this release had GW announced when the rumours first started that they had developed this awesome new resin that was the best thing since sliced squig are instead not excited at all by the lack of information from GW and the wild disparity of the rumours online and now need to be wooed back into the fold.
All GW have done by trying to keep this all secret is make more work for themselves when the time actually comes to sell the stuff.
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Post by: stinkysanguinor
Matt on miniwargaming seems very impressed by the models...
Oh, my first post as well
Says that:
-Are more detalied than the pewter ones.
-Miscast ratio was 2 to 100
-Price rise is not because of the transfer to Resin, is because of annual price hike.
http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/gw-fine-cast-miniatures-review
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Post by: Le Grognard
Saw the listing of FC figs. The only one I want is the Nurgle Daemon Prince. He only went up .50 USD and since it's Nurgle, bubbles and mistcasting; who'd be able to tell anyways? On that model it would be called 'free customization', thus every one is unique!! Brilliant!!!! (That's about the only good spin I can put on this whole debacle so far. )
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Post by: SpitfireArsonist
Le Grognard wrote:Saw the listing of FC figs. The only one I want is the Nurgle Daemon Prince. He only went up .50 USD and since it's Nurgle, bubbles and mistcasting; who'd be able to tell anyways? On that model it would be called 'free customization', thus every one is unique!! Brilliant!!!!
(That's about the only good spin I can put on this whole debacle so far. )
The plague marines look nice too. I'm actually surprised that more sets are actually out and that the first wave wasn't exclusively blisters and small boxes.
I'm still on the fence on how I feel about Finecast. I'm still a bit skeptical as of now, but the idea of metal being gone for some models is exciting.
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Post by: MechaEmperor7000
I'm tempted to pick up some Ushabtis due to their (surprising) drop in cost. I've always liked the models and needed some beef for my TK army.
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Post by: Eilif
Went to the Chicago Battle Bunker just now. Saw the new finecast stuff.
I paid particular attention to Yarrick and Dante, two figures I already have. I have to say that the details did look like they might be somewhat sharper and finer, however it could be my imagination. However, imagining them painted, I couldn't see where they'd look markedly better than the metal versions.
Neat concept and the execution looks quite good, but I just don't see it being anything terribly revolutionary, and certainly not worth being priced any more than the metal versions.
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Post by: StarFyre
Hello Folks,
As promised, some pics and words on the finecast carnosaur. (i will also post this in the other thread)
First, the pics:
Ok i hope i did that right and the images show up
So thoughts from that.
The good:
* Looking over the carnosaur, fairly quickly, while I did notice a couple mold lines, nothing big that I can't fix up. Similar to mold lines on FW stuff and other resin models I've gotten before (although not as clean as the Ilyad resin minotaur i got some time ago)
* the scales and teeth ARE better defined and the edges are sharper (see note below in "the bad" section)
* model is of course lighter (big plus for those of us who carry lots of models around whenever we go play)
* the ropes that hold some of the armour onto the dinosaur ARE better defined (see note below in "the bad" section") which is good
* areas before, where metal filled in gaps between claws, and thus it was hard to remove it to make the claws defined individually have the same issue BUT now can easily be fixed since this plesin is much easier to cut/remove/sand, etc (plesin = plastic resin)
* the teeth and eye area on kroq-gar himself are very well defined (his teeth are very sharp, where the metal ones just aren't as sharp, but they are still fairly well defined on the metal version)
* NO miscast areas, NO distorted areas (even the weapon shaft is the same as the metal one, which already had slight bend in it so this is the same), and no missing areas (like the librarian foot area) -- probably the best finecast model reviewed so far in terms of damage/distortion/etc
the bad:
* while the teeth, scale edges, etc are better defined, i'm not sure this matters. Most animal scales aren't as sharply defined as a metal blade... i don't think this will matter to most people
* there is one small air bubble area below the nose plates, above the teeth/gumline. BUT due to the textures on the carnosaur face area, it actually doesn't look out of place so I may just leave it
* there was a bit of rubber stuck in that air bubble gap. wasn't easy to remove it...it kept elastically springing back (had to use 2 sharp knife blades as chop sticks to remove it)
* the ropes on the metal version were already well defined; i can see each rope strand already, so while this is sharper, it won't make much difference to most people (ie. if you enter golden demons, I would suggest using this finecast carnosaur instead of the metal one; if you play games and just games, get whichever is cheaper, unless weight is an issue for your carry case)
* the way the sprues are made, lots of areas to cut and sand but the actual gates, etc do not go into the detail so once you cut/sand it off, no issues
I can add more comments later, if people ask for specifics -- from someone who is more of a painter, commission painter, and D&D player (ie. i like monsters) , I think finecast is great for larger models. monsters, etc don't have as much fidly details that can get ruined (as we see with stern, librarian, etc) and the sharper details on teeth, eye sockets, etc does make that slight difference. Being lighter makes me along happy with this plesin version.
BUT, I did check out an opened nurgle daemon prince (the cool fat one from few years ago)...while I could see some better details on the arms, etc (I've painted 2 metal ones before, so am familiar with the model), there were some areas where cleaning up mold lines, etc, unless you are very experienced, will cause model damage.
A final comment: I do not think this is for inexperienced modellers. The very fact that the store kept stressing to me, not to use files, etc (NOTE: i tried a file on it, it's fine as long as you are gentle) makes me feel that you have to be very careful with these. Some models people had, mold lines were in areas that a slight error and well, you better be a decent sculptor I would not give this to a younger sibling to work from scratch. I would clean it up first; wash it, etc, sand it, file it, whatever you want...THEN cut it up and modify as they want and give to them to paint instead. The risk of damage, IMHO, is too high, for those who aren't used to cutting up costly FW models or other european collector company models. (for example, mine has a mold line over the nose armour and snout area...if you screw that up, you can damage part of the head as it's quite a visible and large mold line. For me, it's easy to remove and any damage, I can easily resculpt it (Note, I'm not a good sculptor like Allan C or Remy Tremblant or something, but I'm sure I'd be considered an advanced modeller/painter), but i'd feel bad if due to my comments, someone thought it was ok to buy the model and started working on it in a rush without assessing it completely first with close inspection and planning what to do and how to do it. PLEASE ASSESS THE MODEL FIRST...ALL ANGLES, etc. The way you would a hot girl hehehe
So, I would like to pick up some more models, but will only due so online or from retailers with the normal discount. i really think I got one of the better casts here; as most people seem to be having issues but again, i think that is cause large monsters probably cast easier.
Ask away if you need more details...I'll check again incase I missed a huge error in the cast, but i didn't see one yet.
NOTE: the mold line over the nose, I didn't label that as a BAD, cause with all the mold lines I've seen in different types of models, it's almost always gonna go over some important section; the fact that mold lines exist, we can't really help, so that to me is nothing extra bad.
Regards,
Sanjay
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Post by: TBD
According to the staff at my local GW the IG commissar & Empire Captain that were previously mail order only are now part of the regular stock.
Not sure if that is definitely true or not, but if it is it could mean that Vulkan, Khan, etc might also become regular stock when it's their turn to be finecasted. Hopefully.
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Post by: Lord Scythican
So I was thinking of something...if I buy the Nurgle Daemon Prince and Plague Marines in finecast, the possibility of air bubbles would only increase the nurgle look right? I mean you really can;t go wrong with a few more holes or melted looking pieces with a Nurgle mini right?
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Post by: Doktah
Some of the pictures of the more....questionable...casts floating around kinda make me shakey about buying anything from this line for the time being...
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Post by: Otterman4
StarFyre wrote:Hello Folks,
* there was a bit of rubber stuck in that air bubble gap. wasn't easy to remove it...it kept elastically springing back (had to use 2 sharp knife blades as chop sticks to remove it)
Thank you sir, for your rigorous post.
I notice this part of your posting - as someone somewhat, er, familiar with both resin and vulcanized rubber casting, this means that the mold used to make this carnosaur degenerated slightly during casting. This in turn means that every casting after yours will be deformed in that exact spot.
This is exactly what I see in my more challenging molds, which typically degenerate in a few dozen castings. Unless their QA is spending a few minutes on every single casting, they will never know when a mold has broken in this manner.
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Post by: -Loki-
Heh, my Heirophant had gakloads of rubber stuck in the details in the ribs. I guess the next Hierophant torso from that would have no rib details? Feel sorry for that guy.
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Post by: A Black Ram
^I thought that exactly when reading about the rubber.
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Post by: Pacific
MeanGreenStompa wrote:mattyrm wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because GW are a corrupt company who have nothing but contempt for their fans. With any luck, and when all is said and done, this 'Finecost' nonsense will be just another turn on their slow death spiral.
Ive long found HBMCs posts to be bizarre warped ramblings, but this one takes the cake.
You WANT GW to disapear?
I don't, I like 40k, but for the life of me I cannot understand why you post on a website devoted to GW If you have such a distaste for the company, and your sigs are all ridiculous as well, your like some sort of battered wife who constantly slags off her abusive husband, but just cant bring herself to leave him.
Here's the thing as I see it.
I love 40k, love WHFB, LOVE BFG, love Necromunda, love Epic, love Mordheim, love Black Library books (lets have a few more non- SM centric novels folks), loved WHFRP, loved Dark Future, love most of the Citadel Miniatures, love Forgeworld. (love lamp... )
But I despise the company that owns them now, what it has become, what it thinks of it's self and most importantly what it thinks of us. Because I remember when it was not as it is now and have watched it become this paradox, constantly touting The Hobby louder and louder and at the same time becoming less and less about the hobby and far more about trying to be Wayland Yutani when in fact it's just the biggest fish in one of the smallest ponds in the world.
This frustration leads me and perhaps HBMC and others to finally be convinced that GW should fall now. That it should somehow end up shut down and a more enlightened company buy up it's IP and treat it with more care (and learn a lesson about pricing its self to death...). The likelihood of that is remote, but the current situation is frustrating and disappointing to those of us who do love the fluff but hate the corporation.
Something to be remembered whilst the arguments between the Haters and Apologists wage on this forum and others, is that many of us Haters still verymuch love the games and background and minis, we're just angry with the way the company is behaving.
Just in case anyone missed this fine post, I think it hits the nail on the head for how many of us feel.
Well said
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Post by: StarFyre
Ya, i was so confused as to what that pink thing was. When it popped back and i realized it was stuck there, I realized the mold must be rubber and thus, I have a part of the mold *yay me!*
I find this very mixed overall, although my review was a bit more positive. (as i said, for larger monsters that don't have super fine detail such as humanoid faces, i think plesin is good,even with the current quality of molds GW made, but as models, all sizes, get more and more detailed, they have to prove that they can have a 95% good rate with each model). Someone said they opened 6 boxes of a model and all were bad, but they selected the least affected of them).
I order a lot more FW than I do normal GW stuff, and with 1 exception (that fw sent me a free replacement), none of their models were that bad. flash/mold lines, sure, but never hurting any of the fine detail, so it doesn't bother me.
But the air bubbles people have where it gets rid of sections of a models' feet, or gun, etc. THAT i think unacceptable.
THe store manager wanted me to open the carnosaur in the store to show people so I did, but I told them if the mold is bad, I want a refund. No idea if they would have. hehe
Luckily, the carnosaur was great in comparison to what others have been getting.
Sanjay
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Post by: Thorgut
Do the models seem to look rough to anyone else?
They all seem to have a sort of frayed edge to them.
If the molds are breaking down already, I'm shocked. How can they hold a straight face when they pretend these models are worth more?
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Post by: Alendrel
Thorgut wrote:Do the models seem to look rough to anyone else?
They all seem to have a sort of frayed edge to them.
If the molds are breaking down already, I'm shocked. How can they hold a straight face when they pretend these models are worth more?
The problem is that resin attacks silicone, breaking it down and bonding to it. Especially if they aren't using mold release, which appears to be the case (mold rleease doesn't prevent this process, but just slows it down). That's why we are seeing models with mold material stuck to them, and developing that rough texture on edges and open surfaces.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Very thorough review.
I am interested in your comments that the material is soft to work with. I am worried myself that it may be too soft and flexible for some kinds of work. There will certainly be a learning curve to start with as with any new material.
Hasslefree recently did a clear resin model of Major Tomoko. This model but in clear...
They were able to get only 25-30 castings out of the mould before the breakdown process reduced the clarity to an unacceptably low level through surface micro pitting.
The GW resin is softer and probably kinder on the moulds, however it still has an effect as we have seen from the examples of people with mould rubber on their castings.
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Post by: Sidstyler
a website devoted to GW
Except IT'S NOT. Dakka Dakka is not devoted solely to GW or any company and it's games.
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Post by: RiTides
I have to believe GW knew this would happen... and will frequently replace molds?
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Post by: Orangecoke
First impressions, from my blog:
If you believe GW in this month's WD (which I think is pretty decent), today marks a day in wargaming history akin to Man landing on the moon.
Now....I don't know if I'd go THAT far. But you know what, I do agree with them to some extent. I do think that the launch of Finecast marks the beginning of a new era for Games Workshop players and hobbyists. Resin isn't new, nor will this hugely affect the hundreds of other awesome wargames that people enjoy everywhere. But for those of us who continue to soldier on with Warhammer and 40k - despite the crushing weight of increasing prices - this is a pretty big f'n deal!
I hate metal. Yes, I grew up with metal miniatures. No, I'm not so sentimental as to cling to the notion that they are better than plastic or resin. They are
A pain to clean
A pain to see details on (pre-primer)
Prone to miscasts
A pain to assemble (the larger they get)
Heavy (more on this below)
More prone to edges and points having paint wear off
I dislike metal models so much now it's a big part of why I've kinda slipped out of the Privateer fold for now. Until they make the change over to more resin and plastic, I don't think I'll really go back.
I'm a huge fan of GW plastics and now their Finecast line. They are
Easy to clean
Easy to see details on
Easy to convert
Glue together super fast (in fact, the finecast will go together almost TOO fast)
Detailed and gorgeous
Light! (more on this below...)
Why does weight matter? Basically, large and heavy metal models on their own aren't such a big deal. Yes they can get a bit tiresome while painting and yes they will fall really hard and usually break apart. But the main thing I dislike is the combined weight of a metal army makes carting the army around a bit more cumbersome and most importantly *REALLY* expensive to ship - after all, I sell most of my armies, and dont want the buyers to have to pay a huge fee for shipping. So this is awesome. Also, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but one reason I'm a little disappointed that Finecast came with a price increase is GW is probably going to save a HUGE amount of money on shipping now (both to stores and for mail order). This is going to cut their costs in that regard enormously, to say nothing of the smaller clam-packs.
So at the store today I picked up Draigo and the detail is just superb. Was there a fair bit of flash to clean? Yes. Mold lines to scrape off? Yep. But overall this "new" resin (which is non-toxic according to GW) cuts super easy, and therefore cleans up really easily too. I didnt bother washing it (I always wash other resin - like Spartan Games - or FW stuff, which is really bad with mold release) and honestly don't see a need to here. It primed up as good as any other model I've ever painted.
I'm just incredibly impressed. These are beautiful, detailed models cast in a material that is feather light and super easy to work with and paint. The only thing I'm not loving is the price, and frankly I should just wear a T-shirt that says that every time I go to GW. It's a fact of life with the Warhammer hobby - GW charges a LOT. Eventually they may even price me out of the hobby...but today isn't that day.
33344
Post by: Deeks2010
Well yesterday I went along to our local GW (kettering) and bought a couple of the new Citadel Finecast range box sets, I did a bit of a "whats in the box" review on my blog if anyone is interested in it.
http://40kbitz.blogspot.com/2011/05/hobby-news-citadel-finecast-first.html#more
There are pictures of all the sprues in each box set.
Ellis
31013
Post by: SpitfireArsonist
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but is there a list of the contents and the ETA of the second wave of finecast models?
38362
Post by: Mizeran
The price debate aside I must say I really like these new finecast models. Only bought my self a lord commissar yesterday but it's so easy to work with this new material. Just a shame I have so many unpainted metal figures waiting to be painted that will soon be replaced. Now we can only hope Forgeworld switches to the same type of resin..
116
Post by: Waaagh_Gonads
I went in today, the draigo there from what I could see in the box looked fine.
Also the body of Astorath looked unbelievably crisp, but he was missing his nose.
Dante... the sprue with his body was ENTIRELY filled with flash and his axehead was bent back 30-40 degrees.
No way in the world I'd buy it.
The assembled Azhag in the store was missing a huge length of chain that had been miscast.
Other models had minor imperfections, enough that I'd be taking them back and asking for another/refund.
As other have pointed out, very poor form for a product pushed by GW as a leap forward in quality.
42827
Post by: Droma
I spent about 5 hours at the local GW today to check out finecast and just generally hang out. From what I saw over about 2 dozen different models there very minor imperfections on a few of the models and the only major problems were 2 different blisters missing torso sections. (One was the ork on a dragon and I think the other was some SM character). I bought a Draigo and he looks extremely good. I haven't found any bubbles or miscasts looking over it so far and I looked pretty darn close.
17796
Post by: Slinky
The consensus seems to be that Finecast models are great, but that there are far too many that are NOT great because of casting issues that should never have left the factory.
Bit of an own goal on such a hyped release 
19110
Post by: Abaddon
There seems to be a huge problem with missing bits right now.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
Some of these problems are most likely teething troubles due to the new process and having to ship huge amounts of product out in a short time.
I hope.
41806
Post by: carbon
I think what I'm going to do is wait a while before buying anything, hopefully the big issues will have been sorted. And just thoroughly check the back of the blister before buying.
7637
Post by: Sasori
Kilkrazy wrote:Some of these problems are most likely teething troubles due to the new process and having to ship huge amounts of product out in a short time.
I hope.
I hope they have the issues ironed out by the Necron Release. I suspect I'll be waiting to buy anything before that.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:As other have pointed out, very poor form for a product pushed by GW as a leap forward in quality.
And at twice the price of our northern brethren no less...
38358
Post by: Vimes
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Also the body of Astorath looked unbelievably crisp, but he was missing his nose.
That explains why he´s always so grim.
If I played a game "Where´s your nose" with someone and it turned out I´d actualy loose my nose I´d be pissed too.
10345
Post by: LunaHound
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I went in today, the draigo there from what I could see in the box looked fine.
Also the body of Astorath looked unbelievably crisp, but he was missing his nose.
Dante... the sprue with his body was ENTIRELY filled with flash and his axehead was bent back 30-40 degrees.
No way in the world I'd buy it.
The assembled Azhag in the store was missing a huge length of chain that had been miscast.
Other models had minor imperfections, enough that I'd be taking them back and asking for another/refund.
As other have pointed out, very poor form for a product pushed by GW as a leap forward in quality.
Thanks for the review, i thought a mod would try to support GW, but really appreciate the honesty <3
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Post by: Kilkrazy
There is no obligation for a moderator to support GW or any other company.
38358
Post by: Vimes
LunaHound wrote:Thanks for the review, i thought a mod would try to support GW, but really appreciate the honesty <3
Why would they?
Last time I checked mods were volunteers in a privately owned board that, while housing a good deal of GW players, was not GW exclusive or affiliated.
A mods job is to keep the atmosphere nice and civil, not to keep quit about their own opinions about certain things.
23372
Post by: Lord Rogukiel
Gah, cheaper material and increased prices. This is ridicullous. Admittedly the additional detail looks pretty cool and no one will have the hassle of converting metal anymore, but why increased prices? WHY?!
I'm going to miss metal models. 
7361
Post by: Howard A Treesong
My old LGS wasn't told anything about the 'Finecast' range from GW. All that happened was that he was finding that more and more items were "out of stock" when he was ordering from them and he started to think that they were blocking his orders for some reason (GW do pull the occasional stunt with their retailers).
Now he accepts that they were likely running down the metal stock for the change over. The GW rep didn't mention a thing about the resin stuff at all, the first he knew of the resin stuff was in the White Dwarf when delivered this week.
The hell? So much for GW keeping their own retailers in the loop.
33344
Post by: Deeks2010
Lord Rogukiel wrote:Gah, cheaper material and increased prices. This is ridicullous. Admittedly the additional detail looks pretty cool and no one will have the hassle of converting metal anymore, but why increased prices? WHY?!
I'm going to miss metal models.
I dont think the price rise was based around the Fincast models and the materials used to make them, this was just the annual price rise the hobby has seen over the past few years, I think it was just a coincidence the price rise happend at the same time as the new release.
IMHO if GW had released these before the annual price rise, then they would not of got so much stick about the costs of finecast models, or held onto them until the price rise had happend.
Either way I think its just coincidence
10345
Post by: LunaHound
Deeks2010 wrote:Lord Rogukiel wrote:Gah, cheaper material and increased prices. This is ridicullous. Admittedly the additional detail looks pretty cool and no one will have the hassle of converting metal anymore, but why increased prices? WHY?!
I'm going to miss metal models.
I dont think the price rise was based around the Fincast models and the materials used to make them, this was just the annual price rise the hobby has seen over the past few years, I think it was just a coincidence the price rise happend at the same time as the new release.
IMHO if GW had released these before the annual price rise, then they would not of got so much stick about the costs of finecast models, or held onto them until the price rise had happend.
Either way I think its just coincidence
Then we shall see next summer , if GW will say the next price increase wasnt a consecutive increase, but due to finecast's release this year.
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Post by: Alpharius
If there's one thing this and other threads on the topic have convinced me of, it is that there is no way I'm buying Finecast anything 'sight unseen'.
10345
Post by: LunaHound
Alpharius wrote:If there's one thing this and other threads on the topic have convinced me of, it is that there is no way I'm buying Finecast anything 'sight unseen'.
But GW makes good on replacements :'<
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
It's still a PITA to not be able to examine models in the shop, because so many are on special order.
Like I mentioned before (it may have been a different thread) I had to order Shadowsun three times to get a copy that didn't have the wrong parts.
That was metal. No problems with the casting, just missing pieces.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
GW should'a made good on the product first.
10345
Post by: LunaHound
I have 3 chaos charriot , all the same side....
till this day im still missing the left side, so no charriots for me :'< geez GW stop sending me right side everytime why you so mean....
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
And I once ordered two blisters of Spore Mines and was sent two metal GK Terminators with Psycannons.
Mistakes. Happen.
We get that.
With Finecost though... the mistakes seem to be part of the deal.
7375
Post by: BrookM
All in all the mail-order Trolls (what are they called now anyway?) are a cool bunch. Just give them a ring, explain the problem and they'll sort it out and then some. Had an old Mordheim Possessed warband for not a whole lot from the GW store ages ago, had a miscast torso, gave them a ring and what did I get? A whole new boxed set plus an extra blister of the faulty model, "just in case."
I do feel bad for my FLGS, I wonder how they'll deal with all that faulty stuff.
42223
Post by: htj
I told my girlfriend about this last night, and she was quite upset. She buys minis for D&D and just for painting, and much prefers the solid weight of metal, all other issues aside. She is completely uninterested in buying any resin or plastic minis, and was disappointed that a lot of the minis GW made that she liked she would now have to get on eBay, or some such. Sure, she doesn't spend a huge amount, but I know she's not alone in prefering the feel of metal miniatures. I'm willing to bet that there's a noticable chunk of GW's income that's lost right there, in people like her.
116
Post by: Waaagh_Gonads
Alpharius wrote:If there's one thing this and other threads on the topic have convinced me of, it is that there is no way I'm buying Finecast anything 'sight unseen'.
I will be ordering them from the UK and US for cheap prices, but have a GW store up the road to swap them out.
Also Lunahound, Mods owe nothing to GW.
GW is run by a bunch of clowns.
The IP is brilliant.
The business sense and support of veterens pathetic.
I try to keep my heartfelt hatred balanced by a love of the games, here on dakka.
39195
Post by: Asuron
Howard A Treesong wrote:My old LGS wasn't told anything about the 'Finecast' range from GW. All that happened was that he was finding that more and more items were "out of stock" when he was ordering from them and he started to think that they were blocking his orders for some reason (GW do pull the occasional stunt with their retailers).
Now he accepts that they were likely running down the metal stock for the change over. The GW rep didn't mention a thing about the resin stuff at all, the first he knew of the resin stuff was in the White Dwarf when delivered this week.
The hell? So much for GW keeping their own retailers in the loop.
They weren't the only ones
Miniwargaming said the same thing in their review of the models, they weren't told anything and it put alot of stress on them to get the orders in
What the hell has to be going through their brains, to not tell anybody about what they are doing so they can prepare for this
Instead it forces retailers to put a hole in their wallet for a while just to have stock to sell, because there was no way they could have been prepared for this
Even their own employees couldn't tell me what they were selling two days before, because apparentlly they hadn't been told!
I mean how are you going to assure a customer of anything, if noone knows anything?
Its like all the examples of how to not run a business, GW seem to exemplify
19970
Post by: Jadenim
OK, I've been reading these threads with a whole mixture of concern and a, possibly vain, hope that by the time I want to order a Finecast model they'll have sorted these initial issues out.
As an engineer I can appreciate the immense logistics of switching manufacturing technique on a mass produced item range, but there were two actions that GW could have taken to stop this mess:
1) Information - Personally I would have handled the release like this:
Circa 1st March 2011: " Hi Guys, great news! Here at GW we've developed a great new system called Finecast [Insert cool pic]. This plastic resin system will allow us to reproduce all our current metal models in a material that give better reproduction, is easier to work with.. [etc, etc]. As you can imagine this switch is going to be a mammoth task, so as of 1st April 2011 we are finishing production of any new metal minatures. Finecast models should be available from 1st June, but we want to make sure the product meets our and your high expectations before we put it on general release. We thank you for your patience during this exciting transition."
Something like that. Then we would have known the situation. Then we could even have started getting excited about it.
2) Quality Control. For gawd's sake they're a major multinational company that supposedly trades upon their superior reputation. It doesn't matter how many miscasts you're getting during the casting process (which is inevitable at the start, before you tweak the process), all you need to do is plonk a couple of competent inspectors on the end of the line and only release prodcut that is up to scratch. Simple as that, don't sell what isn't good. And if they'd done point one then I, for one, wouldn't have minded if they'd then said "Sorry guys, certain models are going to be in short supply for a little longer whilst we tweak the process, but, again, we don't want to release an inferior product to our valued customer base."
I think that second point is the one that anyone should use if you do feel tempted to write to the Company/board/major shareholders, because to my mind that is evidence of commercial negligence. They're sacrificing the good reputation of their brand (as far as model quality goes) for short term gains, by hoping people will just live with the problems.
42223
Post by: htj
Seems like the people who didn't want to switch to resin would have bought tonnes of metal minis before the changeove, too. I guess GW didn't want to make all that money. Maybe they thought it was unsporting.
10345
Post by: LunaHound
Im not so concerned with bad resin productions. I foresee the possible outcome.
a) The fine cast finally succeeds due to w/e trial and error they end up with. Find a scape goat with the company that contracted the resin production. GW not at fault.
b) The fine cast fails , and we get back to metal. Again, finds scapegoat and while admitting the failure , price raise again. GW not at fault again.
and then , price increase for everyone to cover the cost -_- yay~
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
htj wrote:I told my girlfriend about this last night, and she was quite upset. She buys minis for D&D and just for painting, and much prefers the solid weight of metal, all other issues aside. She is completely uninterested in buying any resin or plastic minis, and was disappointed that a lot of the minis GW made that she liked she would now have to get on eBay, or some such. Sure, she doesn't spend a huge amount, but I know she's not alone in prefering the feel of metal miniatures. I'm willing to bet that there's a noticable chunk of GW's income that's lost right there, in people like her.
I like the heft of metal myself, except for items larger than a cavalry figure or a cannon.
You should direct your girlfriend to the many companies who are still making fantastic metal miniatures; Reaper, Hasslefree, Infinity (Corvus Belli) and others, plus many historical ranges.
21462
Post by: Ehsteve
After taking a look at one of the larger sets (techmarine with servitors) I have to admit I was a bit hasty in condemning finecast. The detail (especially the eyes) is so crisp it is difficult to believe it was the same mould used for its metal counterpart. There was inevitably a few airbubles and issues with the cabling, but I have seen the same amount of issues with metal, except they weren't as easy to fix. Flash requires only use the back of a scalpel, and cutting the resin is more like cutting through cardboard than plastic.
Bent weapons are an issue, but the additional detail and not having to prime the model (and therefore losing less detail through the painting process) seemed to me a good tradeoff. The models don't break when dropped, be it Marneus Calgar's honour guard (standard bearer) or the Lord of Macragge himself, the only thing that broke off the model at its worst was it coming off the base, otherwise no damage to the mini at all.
I so far have not seen any major defects like some of the others on the forum, however some of the older casts (and I must admit the Emperor's Champion was a particularly bad offender) looked slightly buttery in detail. Otherwise, no major miscasts such as missing facial features or missing weapons to report so far from the local GW.
However, looking at Abaddon and Huron Blackheart, it was was fantastic to be able to make out facial features and things previously lost in their former metal selves. Nonetheless, metal still has a special place in my heart, I'm not surrendering my pin vice yet. Can't wait to see Inquisitorial assassins in finecast, I need a new vindicator...
42223
Post by: htj
Kilkrazy wrote:htj wrote:I told my girlfriend about this last night, and she was quite upset. She buys minis for D&D and just for painting, and much prefers the solid weight of metal, all other issues aside. She is completely uninterested in buying any resin or plastic minis, and was disappointed that a lot of the minis GW made that she liked she would now have to get on eBay, or some such. Sure, she doesn't spend a huge amount, but I know she's not alone in prefering the feel of metal miniatures. I'm willing to bet that there's a noticable chunk of GW's income that's lost right there, in people like her.
I like the heft of metal myself, except for items larger than a cavalry figure or a cannon.
You should direct your girlfriend to the many companies who are still making fantastic metal miniatures; Reaper, Hasslefree, Infinity (Corvus Belli) and others, plus many historical ranges.
Yep, she's a big fan of Reaper, and they're going to be getting a lot more of her business from now on. She likes PP as well, and Red Box Games. Heck, she's pretty diverse in her taste, come to think of it.
42808
Post by: Marthike
I got a bent librarian staff which is annoying. It looks stupid
Is there ways to contact GW to get it replaced?
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
You can just straighten it using hot water.
42808
Post by: Marthike
Kilkrazy wrote:You can just straighten it using hot water.
Thanks
38067
Post by: spaceelf
In my opinion the new finecast models have more detail than their metal counterparts. The people that bought them had little trouble taking off the flash or gluing them together. (Nobody bought a larger kit, so my comments do not extend to gluing large pieces together.) Also, as has been reported, the resin is not particularly fragile. However, at least two of the models sold in the store were missing parts, and about one out of every ten blisters had bubbles that you could see from outside the package. Many of the weapons were bent, but that is a problem that should be an easy fix.
My biggest problem is the price. The new prices would be ok for a Mordheim gang, but not for a 40k or Fantasy army that requires lots of miniatures. It really makes you think when a half dozen finecast miniatures cost the same amount of money as a 20+ point Warmachine army. The change to resin would have been a perfect opportunity for GW to lower prices, but instead they raised them. Maybe they are incurring lots of costs replacing finecast moulds?
One last note, whomever chose the models to get the finecast treatment is a total fail. The Pyrovore and Tau Ethereal are available in finecast but the Crisis Suit commander and Fire Dragons are not. So few people play the former models that some guys in the shop thought that the Ethereal was a new sculpt. .
25200
Post by: Temujin
Ehsteve wrote:Can't wait to see Inquisitorial assassins in finecast, I need a new vindicator...
Wouldn't a vindicator make a rather conspicuous and unsubtle assassin?
42223
Post by: htj
Temujin wrote:Ehsteve wrote:Can't wait to see Inquisitorial assassins in finecast, I need a new vindicator...
Wouldn't a vindicator make a rather conspicuous and unsubtle assassin?
Reckon it'd get the job done, though.
20096
Post by: hlaine.larkin
i call conspiracy. mat ward himself sends out faulty things so they can send us replacements and look good.
i don't really...
the finecast looks nice, but i agree, they should have ensured they could deliver a quality model before starting them out
10345
Post by: LunaHound
Conspiracy? Here is a conspiracy.
GW PRODUCE FAILCAST ON PURPOSE TO DIVERT ATTENTION AWAY FROM THEIR EMBARGO ON SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE
see we forgot all about it , right? riiiiiiiiiiight? :3
7375
Post by: BrookM
Nah, if it were a conspiracy you'd have to involve the Squats and Dogs of War.
20096
Post by: hlaine.larkin
Okay. in that case...
Mat Ward produced finecast to take our minds off of screwing up our fellow wargamers worldwide, whilst grinding up all the squats and dogs of war, using our hopes and dreams as a solvent to mix it all together to make finecast- all whilst laughing maniacally.
7375
Post by: BrookM
*Ding-ding!*
Give that man a tinfoil hat and welcome him to the club!
34708
Post by: Alphacerberus
I managed to get ym hands on a archon yesterday and ive had minor problems the sword arm had a air bubble which was easily fixed with super glue but my archon did come with one heel missing which i have had to GS and re sculpt but the materials work together well so no issues really, however while going round the store i had a look at other products i saw:
A bald avatar the hair was a misscast with barely a strand of hair not bubbled
urien (DE haemonculus) had a solid membrane of flash all over the model like he has wings and had a very bad mould line down the middle that made him look like he had a iguana crest
some guy purchased calgor and honor guard which one was warped and opened a 2ndbox which had been bubbled in multiple places the 3rd box was a compound of both problems strangely all on the same guy
lastly a legless hive tyrant which had a bubble which had served the legs during casting
it seems bigger moulds suffer due to finecast
27911
Post by: ryanstartalker
Anyway I got my metal Logan and Njal years ago... Though I would be looking forward to see a Bjorn the Fell-handed getting a resin kit.
Pity that the original metal kit is too heavy...
20124
Post by: Neith
I got a Finecast DE Archon, and my brother got the Eldar Avatar. Both kits had no problems at all (barring some very minor warpage on the Avatar's Wailing Doom), and were some of the easiest models to assemble I've ever done. No pinning at all needed for the Avatar, and parts bonded in seconds. I don't use GW Super Glue (I use Loctite), but I've never found assembling models so easy. Personally I love Finecast, provided I can see what's in the box beforehand. For online-only orders it's a bit of a gamble, but GW are usually decent enough about returns.
I'm still freaked out that my Archon's Huskblade is bendable Haven't tried painting the Archon yet, but assembly is a much nicer experience than metal from what I've done so far.
Finecast certainly isn't worth a price increase (obvious that Finecast isn't the reason anyway when plastic kits have raised too), but even with imperfections I much prefer it to metal. Putting together a 3000+ point Tyranid army can be a horrible experience
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Post by: Kravox
They better not change from metal, Resin isn't as good.
10345
Post by: LunaHound
Kravox wrote:They better not change from metal, Resin isn't as good.
But they already did?
43752
Post by: Imperator97
Yep, the metal models just didn't stick
Let's hope the resin ones do!
42223
Post by: htj
Kravox wrote:They better not change from metal, Resin isn't as good.
Don't worry, I'm sure they won't unless they become a public company, or change Rogue Trader's name to Warhammer 40,000.
20096
Post by: hlaine.larkin
htj wrote:Kravox wrote:They better not change from metal, Resin isn't as good.
Don't worry, I'm sure they won't unless they become a public company, or change Rogue Trader's name to Warhammer 40,000.
I lol'd.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
LunaHound wrote:Conspiracy? Here is a conspiracy.
GW PRODUCE FAILCAST ON PURPOSE TO DIVERT ATTENTION AWAY FROM THEIR EMBARGO ON SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE
see we forgot all about it , right? riiiiiiiiiiight? :3
Nah, but this resin stuff could be Games Workshop's "New Coke" which will flop.
In a few months GW decide to listen to their customers (for once) and introduce the "Vintage Range". These are the figures don in metal again, but with a huge price increase because they are "collector's pieces".
23809
Post by: Gymnogyps
I posted this last night in the other thread (added here with a couple of edits for grammar/clarity):
Just returned from my Failcost adventure... bought Eldar Shadowseer and Azhag. Opened both in store.
Shadowseer had a hole in the head (miscast), affecting about a quarter of it, which I filled in with glue. Not happy I had to do it, but I decided to suck it up on this one. Otherwise, the model is very nice. I've primed it black and it seems the details are crisper than I expect from metals, however, I do not have a metal Shadoseer to compare. The other Shadowseer in the store had the same miscast.
Azhag. Oh Azhag. First thing, I don't have the metal version. On opening, I was pleasantly surprised that I could make out a thumbprint from the sculptor on the back of the big orc face shield... don't know if it is visible on the metal. Amazing resolution on the cast, there! Now the bad. The box had 2 right wings but no left wing. Both right wings were tissue thin in several areas, with many holes. So the other two boxes in the store were opened, all had the same flaws (all told, 3 boxes, 6 right wings all quite thin and porous). I returned Azhag because I was not happy with the quality of the wings, and did not want to wait with half a model for my correct wing to show up.
So, my overall impression: disappointed. These are not worth the cost. If they were half the price, I would be totally happy. But at this price, I expect a product without flaws.
8922
Post by: ironicsilence
Shame things arent turning out so good
8546
Post by: krazynadechukr
GW should just leave the resin stuff to FW.... I love my Krieg models! I was worried that GW finecast was going to be as good as FW resin, only cheaper.... Whew.
26
Post by: carmachu
Alpharius wrote:If there's one thing this and other threads on the topic have convinced me of, it is that there is no way I'm buying Finecast anything 'sight unseen'.
Which also may be the point in slowing or stopping internet discounter sales....
22687
Post by: MajorTom11
Jeez it seems that most who bought this weekend are encountering moderate to severe qc issues... This makes me really nervous to order anything fc online without being able to eyeball the mini...
44334
Post by: Alendrel
Reposting from the locked thread:
And here's the big pile of photos: http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/g401/alendrel/Finecast/[/
Some "highlights" are attached.
Note that all four of the Canis Wolfborns at the store were bad. Which, between metal and resin, means I'm now at 0 for 6 for getting an acceptable one.
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Post by: Alpharius
carmachu wrote:Alpharius wrote:If there's one thing this and other threads on the topic have convinced me of, it is that there is no way I'm buying Finecast anything 'sight unseen'.
Which also may be the point in slowing or stopping internet discounter sales....
Admittedly, I love a good conspiracy theory, but...
...you might be on to something!!!
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Post by: The Crusader Of 42
Argh resin... I don't know what to think about it. On one hand, it makes models easier to put togther, and paint. On the other side... INCUBI (ok calm, calm, oceans think of oceans) are now 50 dollars (canadain) and Tankbustas are 55 dollars.
Wasn't resin supposed to be a cheaper alternitive? Why is in so much more expensive than metal? please help me... I am so confused (wait maybe not)
23979
Post by: frozenwastes
Wow.
Just wow.
For everyone who is planning on buying a finecast miniature to see for themselves if they're as bad as the pics being posted, please stop. They really are that bad. You don't need to waste your money to find out for yourself.
37325
Post by: Adam LongWalker
Alpharius Quoted:
Admittedly, I love a good conspiracy theory, but...
...you might be on to something!!!
Again. If my memory serves me. This is perhaps a way to get rid of the first batches of this product.
If sold as is, GW makes a profit.
If the "Faulty" product is returned. GW writes it off as a loss. A financial win for GW regardless when it does it's taxes.
BTY Yea for me!. I got my nice and shiny [ DCM] badge on my avatark. As I always like to say. "I like to put money where my mouth is".
In this case it is here at Dakka Dakka!
Time for a sugar diabetic overload of pancakes and real maple syrup with lots of BACON!!!
To celebrate of course 
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
Good thing you can see the model inside the package before you buy it, eh?
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Alpharius wrote:carmachu wrote:Alpharius wrote:If there's one thing this and other threads on the topic have convinced me of, it is that there is no way I'm buying Finecast anything 'sight unseen'.
Which also may be the point in slowing or stopping internet discounter sales....
Admittedly, I love a good conspiracy theory, but...
...you might be on to something!!!
It's a nice idea but it would also slow down GW sales because so many models are special order only.
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Post by: Alendrel
Noisy_Marine wrote:Good thing you can see the model inside the package before you buy it, eh?
For blisters, sure. Well, you can see the one side of the sprues, and hope your view of what's further in isn't obscured by parts in front, or sheets of flash webbing over most of a sprue.
For boxes, break out the X-Ray goggles.
For buying online, break out the X-Ray telescopes.
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Post by: Ascalam
Or at least you can see one side of the bitz :(
Unless you open it before you buy the other side could be miscast to hell, and shaking the blister to turn the pieces around would likely break them.
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Post by: puma713
Ugh. Alendrel, those Honour Guard look terrible.
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Post by: Willhellm
You know, when I first saw these I was a little worried about things. Mostly because a lot of the older metal models are still kind of ugly. Abaddon for example, hate that cast. So seeing that was my first disappointment.
Although the night before they were publically released I was looking at my squad of plague marines and said "they need to release you guys in plastic" and when I saw it my heart skipped a beat. Then I saw the price, and it skipped another beat. Then I saw this thread, and it stopped completely. Same with Chaos Raptors. Would love to get more. But at this price can't do it.
I couldn't tell what a few of those pictures were supposed to be of. That's purely ridiculous, was it all miscasted the same way or were they all deformed in different ways?
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Post by: Ivan Isaaks
Only bought 1 finecast this weekend, the IG Lord commissar. The store I went to had a 50% off sale on all of their left over metal figures (15 euro for a box of plague marines is not a deal I can ignore) so I blew all my money on those hehe.
Finecast seems to be a hit or miss atm depending on the model you buy. Hope they sort out these problems when they re-release necrons & sob (plastic sob would be preferred though). Still a bit concerned about the whole melting thing though.
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Post by: ryanstartalker
Any one could explain to me what's this?
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Post by: puma713
ryanstartalker wrote:Any one could explain to me what's this?
A way to make it seem like there's high demand.
Maybe this is all just a long-running and very elaborate April Fool's joke.
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Post by: Zathras
htj wrote:Temujin wrote:Ehsteve wrote:Can't wait to see Inquisitorial assassins in finecast, I need a new vindicator...
Wouldn't a vindicator make a rather conspicuous and unsubtle assassin?
Reckon it'd get the job done, though.
It'd put a whole new meaning to the term "BOOM....HEADSHOT!!!!"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ryanstartalker wrote:Anyway I got my metal Logan and Njal years ago... Though I would be looking forward to see a Bjorn the Fell-handed getting a resin kit.
Pity that the original metal kit is too heavy...
If they do a new Bjorn it will probably be a plastic kit, not resin.
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Post by: Warlord Gazghkull Thraka
I was thinking of getting the Fine cast models, heck, I was on the band wagon and all that, but once I saw those pictures, I was... disappoint.
I think it's better now to get metal models and struggle with them(as I hear they chip easily, break easily, blah blah blah).
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Post by: Alendrel
Ascalam wrote:Or at least you can see one side of the bitz :(
Unless you open it before you buy the other side could be miscast to hell, and shaking the blister to turn the pieces around would likely break them.
Actually, because these are pretty much all on sprues that just fit into the blister, there's no way to do that. And the blister is sealed.
Willhellm wrote:
I couldn't tell what a few of those pictures were supposed to be of. That's purely ridiculous, was it all miscasted the same way or were they all deformed in different ways?
Here's the break down of the types of issues:
0) Small "pinprick" or slightly larger bubbles on a surface that don't disrupt the shape of a thing (e.g. in the middle of a portion of armor or cloth). This isn't really a problem, and is the "dab a lil superglue or putty in and smooth it out" kind of thing that's not unusual with resin. Which is why this is issue 0, I wanted to call it out as something different and easily handled as opposed to more serious bubble issues.
1) Air bubbles that do disrupt the shape of a thing: these are the spikes not fully formed, parts of feet missing, chunks out of armor plates. These are generally characterized by the smooth shiny surface where the bubble prevented the model from filling. These are things that require resculpting to fix. Which may be relatively easy (putting the tip onto a spike) to devilishly difficult (reforming armor plates with detail on them).
2) Tear out: this is a form of mold damage found with metal castings as well. This is the result of a sharp part of the model (e.g. a rivet or edge of armor or clothing) that is buried beneath the mold surface, and drags across the surface of the cavity as the casting is pulled out. This wears and abrades the mold material, and as material is worm away, metal fills that damaged mold area in future castings. This appears as a "shadow" of jagged material extending from the portion of the model causing the damage, and builds up over time (one of the worst examples I've seen was one of the metal Tau Crisis Suit Commander heads where half of the opening of the face was obscured by a sheet of tear out extending across it).
3) Silicone breakdown: Resin attacks silicone, bonding to it and breaking it down. Mold release will slow this process down, but not prevent it, and GW says they aren't using it anyways. Basically, over time, this will degrade the overall surface quality of the mold cavities, so if you have, say, a smooth sweep of cloth, it will start getting rougher looking, both at the edges and across the surface. In extreme cases, it will show as a lumpy texturing, possibly mixed with tiny chunks of mold rubber. Similarly, if you have a thing strand of mold material going between surfaces of a model (such as with Grey Knights, between their head and the raised crest of their armor), it can bind enough that a portion of that strand will snap off before it releases free of the part, leaving future castings to simply fill in that area).
4) Overpressure/insufficient fill: This can be similar to issue 1, and is also something that can be found in metal models, though resin seems more prone to it (the lighter material means it drives into the cavity with less force). This is where the opposing surfaces of the mold cavity are pressed too close together and the material can't properly flow into an area and fill it. The Draigo shoulder ridge I have picture above is a perfect example: it's simply a wisp of heavy flash more than a formed piece of armor.
5) Part distortion: this is occasionally seen in metal, but only when the pressure is high enough that it starts to deform the mold. Resin is far more susceptible to this. Metal sets and hardens very quickly (for tin-based pewters generally used in miniatures, you can open a mold 30 seconds after it's pored and have pieces as solid as they'll ever be, large components can take up to a couple of minutes.). Resin has two working characteristics: pot life, which is how long it is essentially liquid and pourable, and cure time, which is how long until it has solidified enough to keep its shape. In between, it is soft and pliable, and liable to deformation. If removed early, just the force of being pulled out of a mold can stretch or distort it, and it will then finish setting in that distorted shape. For an example, note the front of the Marneus Calgar legs I posted, and how the gem and skull on his crotch-plate are "smeared" out of shape.
6) Mold offset: This is found in both metal and resin, and is a result of the mold halves being not properly aligned with each other. The result, pretty obviously, is a part where one half is shifted away from true with the other, creating project ridges on either side of the part in the axis of the shift. Minor shift is little different than a mold line (which is essentially a tiny ridge of flash as the material pushes between the mold halves), but more significant shift requires essentially resculpting the affected portions of the model. And if his happens across a face or other area of fine detail, can be pretty much impossible to correct.
For point of background, I've been professionally casting miniatures and making molds for about 8 years, mostly in metal, but with some resin experience too.
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Post by: Noisy_Marine
I was a l little disappointed to see that plague marines are still only 7 to a box. Or that raptors still come with only 2 bolt pistol & chainsword raptors. This was a good chance to add more stuff to the box.
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Post by: ted777ccg
With the terrible casting that I've seen, and the new prices that they've attached to these models, I just can't do it anymore. I just can't justify paying these kinds of prices for GW products anymore. Time for me to walk away.
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