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Post by: Kanluwen
Just Dave wrote:Kanluwen wrote:*shrug* I don't set the prices.
Maybe the Jezzails aren't the metal ones we have now but are instead retooled and new ones and they decided they're worth 6 GBP more?
Really Kan? Please, give me some of those straws you're grasping onto... 
Considering we have a post that Kroothawk posted here that several things are "brand new sculpts", I'd say it's as good as any attempt to be optimistic rather than hurt my head trying to think about GW's business practices.
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Post by: Kirasu
Normally I try not to agree with Kan *too much* but he is correct in thinking they *could* be adding value to the models!
Will the added value be worth the added price? Probably not but it may lessen the impact.. right?
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Post by: Just Dave
Kanluwen wrote:Just Dave wrote:Kanluwen wrote:*shrug* I don't set the prices.
Maybe the Jezzails aren't the metal ones we have now but are instead retooled and new ones and they decided they're worth 6 GBP more?
Really Kan? Please, give me some of those straws you're grasping onto...
Considering we have a post that Kroothawk posted here that several things are "brand new sculpts", I'd say it's as good as any attempt to be optimistic rather than hurt my head trying to think about GW's business practices.
True, but I sincerely doubt that they will be one of these "brand new sculpts". If you're right, I'll apologise for my pessimism, however I'm not holding my breath until then...
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Post by: Grot 6
Inanimate wrote:Kroothawk wrote:Inanimate wrote:So Tyranids are practically off-limits to younger/inexperienced modellers? Feels like they, along with Space Marines, would appeal the most to younger people.
As are all armies with an HQ in their force chart (except SM and CSM).
Slinky wrote:There can't be many armies that you can complete without at least one non-plastic model anyway, surely, given the lack of plastic HQ/Lord options?
So wanting to complete an army now makes you a "veteran", it seems?
I don't really understand why exactly these new "resin" based models would be harder to assemble and paint than the tin-based ones though. I guess that even though they will be promoted as products for "veterans", you'll still see kids using those units. Maybe it has something to do with poisonous dust? I'm just wondering what reason lies behind such a d*ckmove. " LOL, you're just a kid. Why don't you take your diaper-fingers away from these finely sculpted 'Nids, and look into some *pffsht* Space Marines instead!!!  ".
They won't be. All it is is a sales ploy to make this so called "Improvement" more tasty to rubes then just coming out and saying, "We're trying to reduce production costs, and keep the same quality. We're going to continue as before, and you people need to be spoonfed to our new way of thinking."
Reason behind the move is purly business. They are changing over to resin based on the cost of ther metals.
To put one over on you and justify the price increase, they call it "Citidal Finecast" in the same way in which they were pushing the "Master class" models line with the recasting of the assorted limited 2d edition and RT era models.
Theres no difference, a models a model, and they put a hat on a pig.
If they would put half of the effort into thier gaming as they are into being completly deceitful, they would have a top notch quality product with no flaws, and 100% customer support.
At this point in time, not only am I not buying any more, I want to know how this practice compares to selling a defective product.
Change over to resin, sure, got that. But thier reasoning is complete bullcrap, and in sticking to this line of P.R. they are opening themselves up for some legal action.
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Post by: Ozymandias
I guess the only fortunate thing is that most armies are like 95% plastic at this point and every new book gets more and more plastic so my wallet won't be hurt too bad.
I would love to see a message from GW saying that they will now freeze price increases for a few years, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by: Absolutionis
Ozymandias wrote:I guess the only fortunate thing is that most armies are like 95% plastic at this point and every new book gets more and more plastic so my wallet won't be hurt too bad.
Plastic sets are also receiving price raises. Nothing is sacred.
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Post by: Mahu
Theres no difference, a models a model, and they put a hat on a pig.
To be fair, this strategy has made some pigs almost entirely resistant to damage.
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Post by: Regnak
Kanluwen wrote:Just Dave wrote:Kanluwen wrote:*shrug* I don't set the prices.
Maybe the Jezzails aren't the metal ones we have now but are instead retooled and new ones and they decided they're worth 6 GBP more?
Really Kan? Please, give me some of those straws you're grasping onto...
Considering we have a post that Kroothawk posted here that several things are "brand new sculpts", I'd say it's as good as any attempt to be optimistic rather than hurt my head trying to think about GW's business practices.
He mentioned that "New details in figures (Capellan on Jumpack, for example, has a new decor in bolter)"
So basically they will add an imperial eagle here and there and charge us £5 for the trouble?! I'd say leave them as they were and let us have them for cheaper!
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Post by: Inanimate
Grot 6 wrote:They won't be. All it is is a sales ploy to make this so called "Improvement" more tasty to rubes then just coming out and saying, "We're trying to reduce production costs, and keep the same quality. We're going to continue as before, and you people need to be spoonfed to our new way of thinking."
Reason behind the move is purly business. They are changing over to resin based on the cost of ther metals.
To put one over on you and justify the price increase, they call it "Citidal Finecast" in the same way in which they were pushing the "Master class" models line with the recasting of the assorted limited 2d edition and RT era models.
Theres no difference, a models a model, and they put a hat on a pig.
If they would put half of the effort into thier gaming as they are into being completly deceitful, they would have a top notch quality product with no flaws, and 100% customer support.
At this point in time, not only am I not buying any more, I want to know how this practice compares to selling a defective product.
Change over to resin, sure, got that. But thier reasoning is complete bullcrap, and in sticking to this line of P.R. they are opening themselves up for some legal action.
Can't say that any of these recent issues have an effect on me. I live in the EU and even with the price increase, online retailers will still be a lot cheaper than LGS. I'll probably end up buying a Hive Tyrant in plastic when it comes out despite already owning a metal one just because I prefer lighter, more flexible/durable and hopefully more easily convertable models. I like the idea, but like you mentioned, it's done for all the wrong reasons.
Their PR-model does indeed seem flawed. They only make things harder for the company. I don't have any data on how old the average customer is, but a lot of people do seem to start playing when they're around 12-13 y.o. These prices seem a little steep for kids that age. Then, limiting the sales further, GW wants to discourage the kids who actually can afford their products from buying the Finecasts? I don't understand the deal with not telling us about upcoming releases until a week before either. Is it to increase WD sales? Is it because they think impulse buying will increase when people don't have time to sit home and contemplate?
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Post by: Llamahead
So how's this effecting Forgeworld stuff?
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Post by: Inanimate
Llamahead wrote:So how's this effecting Forgeworld stuff?
I don't think it does, really. They are a subsidiary of GW if I'm not mistaken. Two separate entities, working on the same IP. Maybe they'll feel a price hike is justifiable when GW's standard line comes closer to what FW is asking for, but I don't think they will.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Kirasu wrote:Normally I try not to agree with Kan *too much* but he is correct in thinking they *could* be adding value to the models!
Will the added value be worth the added price? Probably not but it may lessen the impact.. right?
Yes, that is the point isn't it.
I already have six metal Zoanthropes, so I have no need for resin ones. I would appreciate a model less top heavy, however I can deal with that by drilling out the head and mounting the model on a 50mm base. It certainly isn't worth paying an extra £4 for a resin copy.
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Post by: redeyed
going by the forgeworld catalogue I didnt see any massive hikes.
the most things went up were 2-3 quid
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Post by: Worglock
redeyed wrote:going by the forgeworld catalogue I didnt see any massive hikes.
the most things went up were 2-3 quid
those price raises were done quietly several months ago.
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Post by: maxinux
Personally, I do not care for resin. I find it harder to modify and harder to paint. In the end it is also more fragile, so in my book it is a bad material for anything other than prototypes or very small runs.
In terms of the price increase, there is no reason other than increasing GW margins. First, the global inflation rate is roughly 2% to 3%, so there should be very little economic pressure on their costs. Yes, they will have some capital costs associated with the conversion of the molds etc., but these will quickly be offset by a reduction in material and transportation costs.
For the plastic model increases, their could be some pressure from the recent increase in oil costs. This definitely could push up the cost of plastics, but the oil price is still well below the high seen in 2008, so again the only real reason for the increase can be increasing their margins.
In the end, they are increasing their prices because they can. They are the only real source for the models and they can charge whatever they choose. It is not until customers really stop buying that they will regret their pricing strategy.
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Post by: Ravenous D
Thats the thing, sales have been dropping for years and they keep increasing costs, it almost looks like they are deliberately trying to tank the company.... the exec buggers probably have stock in privateer and mantic...
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Post by: RiTides
Hey guys,
My DE Clawed Fiends are shipping to me today. So, I'd bet the farm that they're NOT resin.
Which is just fine by me 
(They're not on the resin list, but people were wondering about some of the items that were out of stock. I am pretty sure they're just that- out of stock. I can confirm when I have them, likely on Friday).
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Post by: djphranq
My heart is sunk. I was hoping I still had time to attain some metal models. It will be impractical to spend this coming paycheck just to hoard the remaining blisters out there.
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Post by: Aduro
I purchased a box of Mandrakes today. Been wanting these for awhile because they LOOK SO AWESOME (jes is The Man). I don't intend to play Dark Eldar though, just wanted one to use for a "counts-as" Warmachine model, and I figure I'll save one for future use as a D&D character. Wanted to get in ahead of the price increase and resin change. Now I have no plans of buying any GW stuff.
I love my Necrons, and might get some of those when they come out, but apparently I won't be allowed any excitement or chance to save up my budget for them because of the whole one week prior announcement thing they're doing now too.
I don't know, GW is almost completely dead at the FLGS right now, which saddens me. Hopefully the guy in charge of these decisions (kirby?) goes away or retires soon and someone else can step in and turn things around. At this point nothing short of a change of management will change the direction the company is heading.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
This is why I did my mad panic metal order a couple of weeks ago. I've got my Straken, my Harker, my Sister Hospitaler, my Sword Brethren and my Iron Warriors Warsmith, plus a few other things.
No 'Finecast' nonsense for me.
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Post by: RiTides
I put up a thread in the DCM forum asking who was going into panic-metal mode a few weeks ago. I was the only one! Good to hear I'm not alone
This week: ordering the last one I want (Scyla Afinngrimm for a conversion)... even though it's not on the resin list, I don't know if it's going the way of the dodo or what...
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Post by: Agamemnon2
If they're serious about running down metal, I guess this is goodbye to Blood Bowl, Epic, Necromunda and so on. I don't see them reworking the moulds for a low-demand range they don't want to make in the first place. Goodbye, Specialist Games. You'll be missed.
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Post by: Kroothawk
1.) There will be metal in mail order only for a while, but stock runs down of course.
2.) This Finecast uses the exact same moulds as metal, so that is not an issue.
3.) The Finecast will not be hazardous (as someone told me, can't verify that of course) and is free from the usual resin residue, so washing is optional, not compulsory.
4.) Finecast will need the usual flash removal and greenstuffing of gaps, but some models may be easier to assemble due to flexibility and reduced weight of the material.
5.) Finecast is not meant to be on display in every store, so getting an HQ or elite unit or Haemunculi army is a special service for some stores.
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Post by: Semper
There is a contraversial lack of CSM models on that list. Only Abaddon and Huron? Surely they wouldn't get rid of Ahriman, Kharn and Fabius...(I admit I am being somewhat synical in my assumptions GW would remove them as opposed to simply releasing them second wave or giving them new models in the CSM release next year, but then glass half full is the best way to approach GW I find). The general price icrease is a bit horrid too tbh when I started collecting Abaddon was 9 quid. 
At least we know why they're dropping the metal havoc models now (I assume they'll be out with these 'fine caste' tings). Hopefully Oblits and Raptors will follow suit....
Edit: Personally never thought much for Typhus and Lucius (they were ying and yang really... Typhus had good fluff, crap model.. Lucius had average model and a dreary underdeveloped fluff) so i'll sarcastically add 'oh no... not them too' to the outcry above.
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Post by: TBD
91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
These guys are now tied with the Stompa & Baneblade as the most expensive kit
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Post by: Guard
Damn the prices have gone sky high since i was collecting!
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Post by: StarFyre
I don't know how people can say metal is easier to convert than resin. resin, is very east to cut through; metal, while it can be cut through takes a lot more effort and has a better chance of breaking thin saw blades when it snags.
Also it's heavier and pinning can be annoying on some of the much larger portions.
Cutting up lot of FW models to convert, plastic and resin are by far MUCH better for conversions...
I welcome this change (about time!) but damn the price increase for what should be cheaper.
Sanjay
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Post by: Neith
Not particularly liking the price increase, but any excuse I guess I've come to expect it. Hell, I started in '98 and a Rhino was £10. As much as I don't like price increases, I generally use other sources for models rather than GW direct so the excess isn't as bad.
As for switching to resin, I'm happy about it. Having bought a few FW kits in the past (big and small, last thing I built from there was a Scythed Hierodule), resin is so much better to work with in my opinion. Pinning for a start is a complete breeze, and the light weight makes a lot of kits easy to assemble. The only real downside is the fragility compared to metal models (metal ones will break, but resin can just shatter sometimes).
After putting together a GW SoB Exorcist for my brother, I'd be happy if I never saw a metal model again
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Post by: aka_mythos
maxinux wrote:In terms of the price increase, there is no reason other than increasing GW margins. First, the global inflation rate is roughly 2% to 3%, so there should be very little economic pressure on their costs. Yes, they will have some capital costs associated with the conversion of the molds etc., but these will quickly be offset by a reduction in material and transportation costs...
Its a matter of alternative cost; the price of the status quo was higher than making a change. So they made the change. The by product was an improved quality. This is most certainly because of the price of tin, the main metal in the white metal GW uses for casting went up 60% since this day last year. From ~$8/lb to ~$13/lb.
It'd be great if GW could afford to eat that, but I think thats unreasonable. When you look at their investors information page, you can see their overall after tax profit margin, 9.5%. Just to get that meager 9.5% return, GW has to mark up the price of its products 400%... you can get this figure by comparing their cost of sales to their revenue. To put it another way, for GW to make 10 cents on the dollar, a miniature that cost GW $5 to make has to sell for $20. The 60% shift in tin price is the equivalent of that same $5 miniature suddenly costing GW $6.50 and to retain the same overall margin they have to sell it for $26... roughly a 23% bump in retail price.
People have done a break down by percentage of the cost increase for these different models; relatively few exceed 20%, but without the change of material the prices would have all jumped by at least 23%.
So while I agree price increase are bad, I don't think the numbers are lying and I think GW was justified in raising prices and changing materials in this fashion. This was inevitable as long as GW held overall margins steady. We would either see a 23% price increase or a 20% increase with improved casting properties; between the two we got the better deal.
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Post by: Neconilis
ruyn wrote:Foo wrote:MajorTom11 wrote:Pretty much everything is going up 20%. They fail to price to currency fluctuations (Aus and Canada being prime examples of getting bent over).
We should really get a petition together for Canadian gamers.
Our dollar is up 25%. We already pay a 25% premium vs. US costs. Now they raise the price another 25%?
This is what's known in the common parlance as "a dick move".
Sounds like the US will be looking to build a northern border fence soon to keep Canadian gamers from taking all of our hard-earned, God-given wargames products.
Sounds like a great new Republican scare campaign to me.
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Post by: redeyed
Im not sure I understand that argument..although could be me just being dumb. (@ ako_mythos this is as my reply is on a seperate page now!)
Plastic doesnt get factored into that as no metal is involved.
And the Resin is a cheaper material cutting their costs.
So surely they wouldnt require such a large price increase across the board (average of 10-20%) (after several pretty large ones recently ontop of it!)
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Post by: Slackermagee
Yes, GW can no longer be cast in the 'they're not greedy they're just adjusting to metal prices!' light. They're just plain greedy.
Luckily, they were marketing to little kids for a couple of years and craigslist/ebay/garage sales typically have large quantities of cheap, badly painted minis you need to strip.
Don't buy GW, buy used. You still get to play, they still get to feel the heat.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, a large number of companies have come out of the woodwork recently selling minis of all shapes and sizes at sensible prices. IG look alikes, aliens, men in armor, vehicles, etc.
Counts-as may become the new norm at the FLGS.
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Post by: Kirbinator
Slackermagee wrote:Counts-as may become the new norm at the FLGS.
While I certainly agree GW prices are heinous, trends such as "buy used" and "counts-as" put that FLGS out of business if they are relying on GW sales as a significant portion of their business income.
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Post by: dariakus
From what I understand with a couple of my FLGSs, GW products actually provide very little of their business income. The name "GW" gets people into the store, but they make far more money on all the other things they sell.
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Post by: DarkTraveler777
Not sure if I really should be surprised by this but I just received a partial refund from GW for an order that I placed at the beginning of May. The order consisted of a Clawed Fiend and a Harlequin Shadowseer. The refund was for a Harlequin Shadowseer. I know that model is now part of the first wave of Finecast Resins, but on May 11th I had received an e-mail from GW Customer Service stating that my order was held up because of the Clawed Fiend, which would be back in stock on the 20th. Figuring that I nabbed one of the last metal Shadowseers I was content to wait for my delayed order. Today I received a notification from Paypal of my refund and when I checked my GW account it stated that the Shadowseer is "No Longer Available" (Finecast resin > Metal Model) and that my Clawed Fiend had shipped.
It is really strange that GW would first cite the Clawed Fiend as the reason for my order's delay, then ship the Clawed Fiend early and remove the Shadowseer from my order. I guess if they had done the refund any earlier before their Monday Finecast announcement it may have tipped me off that the Shadowseer may have been part of their new resin range?
I dunno, but I am annoyed. There had been some Shadowseers on eBay in the last few weeks and I passed them up because I thought I had one coming to me from GW. Now I don't. That is extremely irritating.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Without being all controversial:
The Clawed Fiend was on 'delayed order' for a bit this past few weeks. There's been a lot of metals going onto that but they aren't on the Finecast thing.
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Post by: DarkTraveler777
Kanluwen wrote:Without being all controversial:
The Clawed Fiend was on 'delayed order' for a bit this past few weeks. There's been a lot of metals going onto that but they aren't on the Finecast thing.
When I ordered both items they were listed as "Usually Ships in 24 Hours." I know this because I also wanted a Deathjester but it was listed as shipping in "4-6 Weeks" so I left it off my order.
I find it hard to believe that GW was unaware that the Shadowseer was going to be unavailable as of today. Likely on the 11th of this month when they e-mailed me about the Clawed Fiend being the reason for my order's delay they knew that they had no plans to spin up more metal Shadowseers. So why didn't they notify me that the Clawed Fiend would ship on the 20th, and the Shadowseer was no longer available? The conspiracy theorist in me thinks it is because they didn't want to reveal that the Shadowseer was on the Finecast list of models.
However, I will take my tinfoil hat off and just leave it as GW's Customer Service dropped the ball on my order.
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Post by: RiTides
My Clawed Fiends shipped early, too. However, I just ordered a metal model (Scyla Afinngrimm) and am hoping it comes in with no shenanigans... it's listed to ship within 24 hours so I expect it to.
However, at this point, it would seem very wise for people who are interested in metal models that are not making the transition to resin to get them, if they're running down the stock...
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Post by: BrassScorpion
There's a list of some of the first Finecast models to be released by GW at FTW Games' web page: http://www.ftwgames.net/2011/05/citadel-finecast-model-list-pre-order.html Citadel Finecast Model List Pre-Order Now Quantities ARE Limited
Posted by Man Boy Genius Wednesday, May 18, 2011
We are now taking pre-orders for all the Citadel Finecast models coming out May 28th. I trying to make sure everyone that wants them has an opportunity to get them.
I will be able to get a max of 3 of each kit at first, and my re-orders will be severely limited for the first couple of months.
So if you wants, please stop by and pre-order. The list of whats being released is below. Some of them are multiple model kits as well new single blisters.
This is all kinda sudden for all of us, but lets make the most of it and get some sweet new resin minis!!!
FELLOWSHIP OF RING
THE DARK LORD SAURON
GULAHVAR
MRDR TROLL CHIEFTAIN
GANDALF THE WHITE
ARAGORN (BLACK GATE)
ELROND AND GIL-GALAD
SULADAN SERPENT LORD
SARUMAN AND GRIMA
BOROMIR (ITHILIEN)
DAIN AND BALIN
GOTHMOG (PELENNOR)
URUK-HAI W.CROSSBOWS
THEODEN (HELMS DEEP)
THE DARK MARSHAL
URUK-HAI BERSERKERS
COMMANDER DANTE
ASTORATH THE GRIM
NURGLE DAEMON PRINCE
CSM RAPTORS
DEATH GUARD MARINES
ABADDON
HURON BLACKHEART
D.A COMPANY MASTER
DARK ELDAR INCUBI
DARK ELDAR MANDRAKES
DARK ELDAR ARCHON
DARK ELDAR SUCCUBUS
URIEN RAKARTH
LELITH HESPERAX
FARSEER & WARLOCKS
ELDAR RANGERS
ELDAR DARK REAPERS
STRIKING SCORPIONS
AUTARCH W.POWER WPN
THE AVATAR OF KHAINE
DEATH JESTER
HARLEQUIN SHADOWSEER
COMMISSAR YARRICK
I.GUARD COMMISSAR
CALGAR & HON. GUARD
TECHMARINE W.SERVITR
STERNGUARD VETERANS
VANGUARD VETS SQUAD
TERMINATOR LIBRARIAN
SM CHAPLAIN W.J.PACK
GHAZGHKULL THRAKA
ORK TANKBUSTAS
MEK W. SHOKK GUN
BOSS ZAGSTRUK
ORK WARBOSS W.SQUIG
ORK BIG MEK
ORK PAINBOY
TYRANID HIVE TYRANT
TYRANID PYROVORE
TYRANID LICTOR
TYRANID ZOANTHROPE
TYRANID TYRANT GUARD
TYRANID HIVE GUARD
TYRANID BROODLORD
CANIS WOLFBORN
LOGAN GRIMNAR
NJAL STORMCALLER
B.T SWORD BRETHREN
EMPERORS CHAMPION
SNIPER DRONE TEAM
ETHEREAL HONOUR BLDE
LORD KALDOR DRAIGO
BROTHER CAP. STERN
CASTELLAN CROWE
INQUISITOR COTEAZ
MALAGOR DARK OMEN
KING LOUEN LEONCOEUR
THE GREEN KNIGHT
CHAOS SHAGGOTH
ARCHAON EVERCHOSEN
CHAOS EXALTED HERO
KHORNE EXALTED HERO
THOREK IRONBROW
DWARF GYROCOPTER
DWARF BOLT THROWER
DWARF LORD W.HAMMER
DWARF RUNELORD
D/ELVES BOLT THROWR
D.E ASASSIN W.2HWEPS
KURT HELBORG
LUDWIG SCHWARZHELM
CAPTAIN W.HAMMER
CARADRYAN
KROQ GAR
AZHAG T.SLAUGHTERER
WARBOSS ON WYVERN
GOBLIN ROCK LOBBER
ORC SHAMAN ON BOAR
GOBLIN SPEAR CHUKKA
GORBAD IRONCLAW
GRIMGOR IRONHIDE
BLACK ORC BIG BOSS
SKAVEN JEZZAILS
SKAVEN WARLORD
QUEEK HEADTAKER
DEATHMASTER SNIKCH
VARGHULF
BLOOD KNIGHTS
COUNT MANNFRED
VAMPIRE LORD
ORION
WOOD ELVES TREEMAN
WOOD ELVES TREE KIN
HIGHBORN W.GREAT WEP
FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH
SKULLTAKER
LRD ON DAEMON MNT
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Post by: JoeyHeadwounds
Only five items from the Chaos Space Marine line... and none of them are anything that I need for my army. I have to wonder when the next wave will come.
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Post by: dariakus
Which ones of those are new multi-model packs? I think the Jezzails, and what else?
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Post by: BrassScorpion
Some Finecast prices:
http://www.40karmies.com/space-marines/gw-price-hikes-and-updated-citadel-finecast-prices
The Wraith Gate went ahead and updated the prices to USD from the Pound floating around the net, and calculated the change in cost.
Blood Angels
COMMANDER DANTE £10.50 – $17 – was $17 – hike + $0
ASTORATH THE GRIM £12.50 – $20 – was $17 – hike + $3
Chaos Daemons
SKULLTAKER £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50
FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH £15.50 – $25 – was $22.50 – hike + $2.50
Chaos Space Marines
ABADDON THE DESPOILER £14.50 – $23.50 – was $22 – hike + $1.50
HURON BLACKHEART £10.50 – $17 – was $17 – hike + $0
CHAOS SPACE MARINE RAPTORS £25.50 – $41.50 – was $45 – hike - $3.50
DEATH GUARD PLAGUE MARINES £25.50 – $41.50 – was $35 – hike + $6.50
NURGLE DAEMON PRINCE £21.50 – $30 – was $35 – hike -$5
Dark Eldar
DARK ELDAR ARCHON £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50
LELITH HESPERAX £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2
URIEN RAKARTH £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2
DARK ELDAR SUCCUBUS £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50
DARK ELDAR INCUBI £23.00 – $37.30 – was $29.75 – hike + $7.55
DARK ELDAR MANDRAKES £20.50 – $33.30 – was $29.75 – hike + $3.55
Eldar
ELDAR AUTARCH WITH POWER WEAPON £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2
THE AVATAR OF KHAINE £22.50 – $36.50 – was $30 – hike + $6.50
HARLEQUIN DEATH JESTER £10.50 – $17 – was $13.25 – hike + $3.75
HARLEQUIN SHADOWSEER £10.50 – $17 – was $13.25 – hike + $3.75
ELDAR RANGERS £20.50 – $33.30 – was $33 – hike + $.30
ELDAR DARK REAPERS £23.00 – $37.30 – was $33 – hike + $4.30
ELDAR STRIKING SCORPIONS £23.00 – $37.30 – was $30 – hike + $7.30
ELDAR FARSEER AND WARLOCKS £20.50 – $33.30 – was $30 – hike + $3
Grey Knights
BROTHER CAPTAIN STERN £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50
LORD KALDOR DRAIGO £14.50 – $23.50 – was $22.25 – hike + $1.25
CASTELLAN CROWE £10.50 – $17 – was $16.50 – hike + $.50
INQUISITOR COTEAZ £10.50 – $17 – was $16.50 – hike + $.50
Imperial Guard
COMMISSAR YARRICK £10.50 – $17 – was $ – hike +
IMPERIAL GUARD LORD COMMISSAR £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50
Necrons
None
Orks
ORK WARBOSS WITH ATTACK SQUIG £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50
ORK BIG MEK £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50
ORK PAINBOY WITH GROT ORDERLY £10.50 – $17 – was $13.25 – hike + $3.75
BOSS ZAGSTRUK £14.50 – $23.50 – was $22 – hike + $1.50
GHAZGHKULL THRAKA £22.50 – $36.50 – was $35 – hike + $1.50
ORK TANKBUSTAS £25.50 – $41.50 – was $37.25 – hike + $4.25
ORK BIG MEK WITH SHOKK ATTACK GUN £23.00 – $37.30 – was $30 – hike + $7.30
Space Marines
SPACE MARINE CHAPLAIN WITH JUMP PACK £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2
SM LIBRARIAN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR £14.50 – $23.50 – was $19.75 – hike + $3.75
MARNEUS CALGAR AND HONOUR GUARD £36.00 – $58.50 – was $41.25 – hike + $17.25
SPACE MARINE TECHMARINE WITH SERVITORS £25.50 – $41.50 – was $41.25 – hike + $.25
SPACE MARINE STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50 – $41.50 – was $35 – hike + $6.50
SPACE MARINE VANGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50 – $41.50 – was $35 – hike + $6.50
Space Marine – Dark Angels
DARK ANGELS COMPANY MASTER £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2
Space Marine – Black Templars
THE EMPERORS CHAMPION £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50
BLACK TEMPLARS SWORD BRETHREN SQUAD £25.50 – $41.50 – was $41.25 – hike + $.25
Space Wolves
NJAL STORMCALLER £14.50 – $23.50 – was $22.25 – hike + $1.25
CANIS WOLFBORN £30.00 – $48.70 – was $41.25 – hike + $7.45
LOGAN GRIMNAR £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50
Tau
TAU ETHEREAL WITH HONOUR BLADE £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50
TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM £23.00 – $37.30 – was $33 – hike + $4.30
Tyranids
TYRANID ZOANTHROPE £15.50 – $25 – was $22.25 – hike + $2.75
TYRANID TYRANT GUARD £15.50 – $25 – was $22.25 – hike + $2.75
TYRANID HIVE GUARD £15.50 – $25 – was $20 – hike + $5
TYRANID BROODLORD £15.50 – $25 – was $20 – hike + $5
TYRANID LICTOR £15.50 – $25 – was $22.25 – hike + $2.75
TYRANID HIVE TYRANT £36.00 – $58.50 – was $49.50 – hike + $9
TYRANID PYROVORE £21.50 – $30 – was $33 – hike - $3
Witch Hunters
None
Fantasy and LoTR
83-62 CHAOS EXALTED HERO £9.50
83-63 CHAOS KHORNE EXALTED HERO £10.50
86-60 EMPIRE CAPTAIN WITH HAMMER & PISTOL £9.50
92-60 WOOD ELF HIGHBORN WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
84-60 DWARF LORD WITH HAMMER & SHIELD £9.50
84-61 DWARF RUNELORD WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
90-60 SKAVEN WARLORD £9.50
90-61 QUEEK HEADTAKER £10.50
90-62 DEATHMASTER SNIKCH £10.50
91-61 VAMPIRE LORD £9.50
89-60 GRIMGOR IRONHIDE £10.50
89-62 BLACK ORC BIG BOSS £10.50
87-60 CARADRYAN £10.50
85-61 DARK ELF ASSASSIN WITH TWO HAND WEAPONS £9.50
81-60 MALAGOR THE DARK OMEN £12.50
10-61 URUK-HAI WITH CROSSBOWS £14.00
10-62 URUK-HAI BERSERKERS £14.00
08-61 GOTHMOG (PELENNOR) £20.50
05-60 ELROND AND GIL-GALAD £15.00
10-60 SARUMAN AND GRIMA £15.00
02-60 GANDALF THE WHITE £20.50
04-60 ARAGORN (THE BLACK GATE) £20.50
04-62 THEODEN (HELM’S DEEP) £20.50
04-61 BOROMIR (ITHILIEN) £20.50
09-60 SULADAN THE SERPENT LORD £20.50
08-62 THE DARK MARSHAL (RINGWRAITH) £20.50
05-61 DAIN AND BALIN £15.00
83-42 ARCHAON THE EVERCHOSEN £30.00
83-43 CHAOS LORD ON DAEMONIC MOUNT £22.50
83-41 CHAOS DRAGON OGRE SHAGGOTH £36.00
86-41 LUDWIG SCHWARZHELM £22.50
86-40 KURT HELBORG £22.50
82-41 THE GREEN KNIGHT £22.50
82-40 KING LOUEN LEONCOEUR £30.00
92-42 WOOD ELVES TREE KIN £30.00
92-40 ORION KING IN THE WOODS £22.50
92-41 WOOD ELVES TREEMAN £36.00
84-40 THOREK IRONBROW £36.00
84-41 DWARF GYROCOPTER £23.00
84-42 DWARF BOLT THROWER £23.00
90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00
91-40 VAMPIRE COUNTS VARGHULF £21.50
91-42 COUNT MANNFRED £22.50
91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
88-41 KROQ GAR £40.00
89-44 GOBLIN SPEAR CHUKKA £18.50
89-43 SAVAGE ORC GREAT SHAMAN ON WAR BOAR £15.50
89-41 ORC WARBOSS ON WYVERN £40.00
89-42 GOBLIN ROCK LOBBER £23.00
89-45 GORBAD IRONCLAW £30.00
89-40 AZHAG THE SLAUGHTERER £55.00
85-41 DARK ELVES REAPER BOLT THROWER £18.50
08-40 THE DARK LORD SAURON £25.50
08-42 GULAHVAR THE TERROR OF ARNOR £30.00
08-43 MORDOR TROLL CHIEFTAIN £25.50
02-40 THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING £37.00
39917
Post by: DAWARBOSS
The price incline is not that bad, looking from the list the biggest hike was the Mek with Shok attack gun which is 9 dollars more than before. Some have even reduced in price! and considering that resin is easier to model with and will hopefully not have the burns or smudged bits that their metal counterparts have, it isn't that bad, wont drive me out of the hobby.
18474
Post by: Darth Bob
It's nice to see alot of the old metal models that were incredibly annoying to put together (Gulavhar, Hive Tyrant, Azhag) are being redone in metal so those heavy wings don't snap off so easily. Also nice to see the super-top-heavy guys like the Chaos Raptors and Zoanthropes are being done.
Overall, even if there's nothing substantially different in the look of the minis, if the casting qualities good then I welcome these resin miniatures.
11
Post by: ph34r
Looks like more models got hit by the FINEcast than I expected.
For some reason, some models only got a 50 cent fine, but others got the full $9 finecast fine, a comfortable 20% up-price.
31013
Post by: SpitfireArsonist
Went into my local GW today and that was the main "buzz". Lot's of people were okay with the price hike with the new models. Most of them are "fanboys" so they are usually okay with most of GW's decisions.
I still think it's a bit ridiculous. Yes the quality is supposedly much better than their pewter counterparts, but where does it end?
On a side note, I kept bugging the manager about the overall price hikes that are incoming and he seemed to have no idea what I was talking about. Whether or not he was being sincere is up for debate though.
31430
Post by: wookie8472
i dont care for the packaging, it just gets thrown away. so a box of troops is a box of troops, not an art piece with troops inside. most of the cost of the unit or figure goes to packaging, the bloke who gw pays a ridiculous amount of money to and the tea lady. packaging should be basic, simple and recyclable, not redesigned every week. also why do gw put the designers names in their picture book rather than prices? i for one could not care less who designed any model, they are simply the people paid to do a job, and the quality is somewhat lacking. i think a pound per troop model is fair, not £8-£13. its a crazy assumption that gw think we cant see the stupidity of their pricing.
i was told once that the strength of a model in the game counts towards the price, which is ludicrous, and as i dont play gws stupid games, i should get them cheaper.
but then, as gw have lost me as a customer, i really couldnt give a toss what they do in the future. i hope they go under, i really do. that would show them.
41670
Post by: Swordwind
It hurts me to see the Avatar and Scorps become more expensive. 
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Only in the twisted world of Games Workshop Corporate would a cheaper material result in Marneus Calgar going up by $17.25.
My half brother deserves better than that!!!
41670
Post by: Swordwind
Suffering sucatash! Just realised the blood knights are 61 pounds. Man, GW must really hate VC players.
17645
Post by: TheFirstBorn
Hellcannon in resin.... mmmmmhmhmhm
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Okay, I really don't understand some of these prices. For example, the DE archon and succubus only went up $.50. Cool, whatever, I can live with that...but why did Lelith and Urien, models of comparative size to the aforementioned ones, go up $2? Why are they so much more expensive despite being the same infantry-sized models with the same level of detail? The mandrakes and incubi confuse me even more...they both start at $29.75, which makes sense, both kits have five models. But mandrakes increase by only $3.55, while the incubi go up a whopping $7.55. Why? There's no reason for that kind of disparity whatsoever, especially when barely six months ago it was decided that they were both worth exactly the same and contained the same amount of product.
I want someone from GW to explain to me exactly what the hell I'm paying for. Why couldn't you have just raised all the prices $.50 per model? It would have made both the mandrake and incubi increases palatable.
Also, lmao @ Marneus Calgar. Are you gaking me?!
38358
Post by: Vimes
That´s somethin I noticed quite some time ago with GW.
GW doesn´t seem to charge for the material alone, they seem to slap on a "popularity tax" on top of it as well. Modells that are stronger or likely to get bought more often are most of the times slightly more expensive than models that are less likely to be bought.
25963
Post by: Miraclefish
Sorry, a Tau Sniper Drone team now costs £23!? Automatically Appended Next Post: redeyed wrote:Im not sure I understand that argument..although could be me just being dumb. (@ ako_mythos this is as my reply is on a seperate page now!)
Plastic doesnt get factored into that as no metal is involved.
And the Resin is a cheaper material cutting their costs.
So surely they wouldnt require such a large price increase across the board (average of 10-20%) (after several pretty large ones recently ontop of it!)
Resin may be cheaper than the new price of tin but it may not be cheaper than the old price that the models were prices using.
If costs would go up 23% sticking with metal and 17% going with new resin, for example, neither gives a price drop, just less of an increase.
Whether it's done honestly or if it is a price gouge doesn't matter to me, it's all too much. £41 for a Land Raider? £23 for a Sniper Drone Team? I'm out. Done. No more new models.
11
Post by: ph34r
If anyone is interested, from the lists on this forum I have calculated, for items whose prices have changed (even by as low as $0.25), the average increases are:
plastic boxes: +12%
books: +14%
metal/finecast: +15%
When you also include items whose prices did not change (aka, items that GW realized weren't selling at current price and that they could not get away with a price increase for, and space marines, because GW loves giving SM all the breaks they can get), the numbers become more like:
plastic boxes: +5%
books: +9%
metal/finecast: +15%
Also I got a laugh out of the fact that raptors, nurgle daemon princes, and pyrovores all went down in price $3-$5, according to the finecast information given.
It makes sense though, when was the last time you saw ANYONE buy one of those models. For me? Literally never.
11290
Post by: Tyrolean
Firstly, is Failcast going to try and kill me with it's prices and cancerous dust? The fragility of resin is also very troublesome, metal might be time consuming to pin properly but if it makes impact it's going to destroy something instead of shattering.
$45 for Chaos raptors? lol I'm sure they'll sell more
9594
Post by: RiTides
TheFirstBorn wrote:Hellcannon in resin.... mmmmmhmhmhm
Except that it's not on the list :-/
The Carnosaur is, however, last I checked... so maybe they can do huge blocks of metal in their resin material.
5859
Post by: Ravenous D
Tyrolean wrote:Firstly, is Failcast going to try and kill me with it's prices and cancerous dust? The fragility of resin is also very troublesome, metal might be time consuming to pin properly but if it makes impact it's going to destroy something instead of shattering.
$45 for Chaos raptors? lol I'm sure they'll sell more
According to GW it is totally safe and kid friendly. From what I was told, you dont have to clean them either, GW just suggests that you do not file them as it will scratch the surface.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Slackermagee wrote:Don't buy GW, buy used. You still get to play, they still get to feel the heat.
I agree with this, to add to it share codices with friends, I have the rulebook, every dex and FAQ on my ipad, its awesome, and totally free.
3330
Post by: Kirasu
Hmm might have to buy a new commander dante and astorath
I hope the scorpions are being repackaged as 10 models cause thats a pretty huge hike
23976
Post by: Inanimate
Quote wrote:Tyranids
TYRANID ZOANTHROPE £15.50 – $25 – was $22.25 – hike + $2.75
TYRANID TYRANT GUARD £15.50 – $25 – was $22.25 – hike + $2.75
TYRANID HIVE GUARD £15.50 – $25 – was $20 – hike + $5
Not a massive change, but they went from really expensive to even more really expensive. I'm feeling like it's better just to buy 3 boxes of Warriors (+ some bits from Trygons and Carnifex) instead and just convert them into Zoanthropes, Hive/Tyrant Guard. None of those are even that great sculpts to begin with (well, except Zoanthropes).
15804
Post by: Klueless
Does anyone else find it ironic that they are using a cheaper material to make the models & so are putting the prices up???
Plastic Zoanthropes would have been nice 5 years ago though!
1036
Post by: fullheadofhair
aka_mythos wrote:maxinux wrote:In terms of the price increase, there is no reason other than increasing GW margins. First, the global inflation rate is roughly 2% to 3%, so there should be very little economic pressure on their costs. Yes, they will have some capital costs associated with the conversion of the molds etc., but these will quickly be offset by a reduction in material and transportation costs...
Its a matter of alternative cost; the price of the status quo was higher than making a change. So they made the change. The by product was an improved quality. This is most certainly because of the price of tin, the main metal in the white metal GW uses for casting went up 60% since this day last year. From ~$8/lb to ~$13/lb.
It'd be great if GW could afford to eat that, but I think thats unreasonable. When you look at their investors information page, you can see their overall after tax profit margin, 9.5%. Just to get that meager 9.5% return, GW has to mark up the price of its products 400%... you can get this figure by comparing their cost of sales to their revenue. To put it another way, for GW to make 10 cents on the dollar, a miniature that cost GW $5 to make has to sell for $20. The 60% shift in tin price is the equivalent of that same $5 miniature suddenly costing GW $6.50 and to retain the same overall margin they have to sell it for $26... roughly a 23% bump in retail price.
People have done a break down by percentage of the cost increase for these different models; relatively few exceed 20%, but without the change of material the prices would have all jumped by at least 23%.
So while I agree price increase are bad, I don't think the numbers are lying and I think GW was justified in raising prices and changing materials in this fashion. This was inevitable as long as GW held overall margins steady. We would either see a 23% price increase or a 20% increase with improved casting properties; between the two we got the better deal.
Dude, totally faulty logic. Your example assumes that ALL costs have gone up 23%. That $5 in costs is made up of materials and costs to support making it. The element that needed to rise 20% was the material costs only - this should be offset to some degree by the drop in warehousing and selling where strategies over last 5 yrs have significantly cut costs.
1478
Post by: warboss
GW has also in previous announcements to investors BRAGGED that material costs make up a small percentage of their actual cost and increases there don't affect their profitability much. Of course, that position changed when they needed a reason for a price increase and had no other (besided the obvious greed).
40490
Post by: HAZZER
So, are all of the prices for charaters going to go up when GW changes to resen?
24779
Post by: Eilif
HAZZER wrote:So, are all of the prices for charaters going to go up when GW changes to resen?
From the lists that are circulating, it looks like most, but not all the charachters are going up. Also, it appears that some of the metals that recently got released, or a price hike, or alre already among the most expensive are not being raised now.
Dante doesn't seem to be getting a raise, but he's already 17 bucks...
40530
Post by: blasto0341
Is anyone actually happy they are making new models? I mean damn, if youre hobby is costing more money either: A. Find a new hobby B. Look for other ways to help pay for it. I bet half of these people here are ones who play in 'ard boyz tournaments with half put together models and or when they open their cases their models look like lego boxes filled with space marines. Lol, everyone just complains about the price, but nobody is excited about the thought of new models!I am happy they are raising the prices, maybe it will weed out the people who dont paint or model their armies!
17796
Post by: Slinky
blasto0341 wrote:I am happy they are raising the prices, maybe it will weed out the people who dont paint or model their armies!
Hmm. Nice attitude... 
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
Miraclefish wrote:Sorry, a Tau Sniper Drone team now costs £23!?
.
They are still crap as well.
40530
Post by: blasto0341
Slinky wrote:blasto0341 wrote:I am happy they are raising the prices, maybe it will weed out the people who dont paint or model their armies!
Hmm. Nice attitude...
I don't spend hours and hours painting and modeling my stuff to just have a terrible game against people who dump their army out of a bucket onto the table. Why else would GW make their awesome terrain tables for painted armies only?
11705
Post by: Oldgrue
blasto0341 wrote: Why else would GW make their awesome terrain tables for painted armies only?
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
I don't spend hours and hours painting and modeling my stuff to just have a terrible game against people who dump their army out of a bucket onto the table.
Well said.
24779
Post by: Eilif
blasto0341 wrote:Is anyone actually happy they are making new models?
These aren't new models, they're old models (possibly slighty modified) in a new material for more money.
blasto0341 wrote: I bet half of these people here are ones who play in 'ard boyz tournaments with half put together models and or when they open their cases their models look like lego boxes filled with space marines.
Unsubstatiated and most likley incorrect. You're judging a hundred or so posters for no reason. For all you know they could be just like me and be the kind of gamer who refuses to put unpainted figs on the table.
blasto0341 wrote:!I am happy they are raising the prices, maybe it will weed out the people who dont paint or model their armies!
Elitist and rediculous. I've been in this hobby for quite a while. With the possible exception of extremely high end models (and I've seen alot of unpainted forge world stuff) I've never seen anything that would point to any correlation between the cost of a model and how likely someone is to paint it. If anything, as the price of the hobby has gone up I -and many others- have seen an increase in the number of unpainted figures on the board. I share your pain about unpainted armies, but raising prices is not the way to fix it.
It seems to me that raising prices has only served to nuture the idea that this is a hobby that you buy your way into (like CCG's), rather than a hobby that you paint your way into.
14732
Post by: Lord Scythican
TBD wrote:91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
These guys are now tied with the Stompa & Baneblade as the most expensive kit
Wow so that would be like $87.00+ in dollars? Ok that is pretty bad. There better be a price drop in these if they hit resin. The whole reason why they were so expensive before is because they were metal right? If they are made into resin, they shouldn't cost more than a box of Chaos Knights.
1464
Post by: Breotan
Lord Scythican wrote:Wow so that would be like $87.00+ in dollars? Ok that is pretty bad.
Web site says $90. For five models. Yes, they're (dead) humans on (dead) horses but so are Empire and Bretonnian knights (except for the dead part) which are 8 for $35.00.
14732
Post by: Lord Scythican
Breotan wrote:Lord Scythican wrote:Wow so that would be like $87.00+ in dollars? Ok that is pretty bad.
Web site says $90. For five models. Yes, they're (dead) humans on (dead) horses but so are Empire and Bretonnian knights (except for the dead part) which are 8 for $35.00.
Wow...ok well if I play Vampire Counts anytime soon, I guess I will be buying from Mantic.
40530
Post by: blasto0341
Possibly modified = new for me. And from what I see at 'ard boyz tournaments, it is plastic bins full of broken unpainted mini's that people use. Yeah, well maybe you call me an elitist but the painting awards I win for my army speak for itself. I was refering to how the cost will drive people out. I was wishful that it would be the people who dont put love into their armies. Are hot dogs the same price as steak? No, you pay more for the better product. Simple. Why else has GW been dominating for 20 years?
11060
Post by: Phototoxin
fullheadofhair wrote:aka_mythos wrote:maxinux wrote:In terms of the price increase, there is no reason other than increasing GW margins. First, the global inflation rate is roughly 2% to 3%, so there should be very little economic pressure on their costs. Yes, they will have some capital costs associated with the conversion of the molds etc., but these will quickly be offset by a reduction in material and transportation costs...
Its a matter of alternative cost; the price of the status quo was higher than making a change. So they made the change. The by product was an improved quality. This is most certainly because of the price of tin, the main metal in the white metal GW uses for casting went up 60% since this day last year. From ~$8/lb to ~$13/lb.
It'd be great if GW could afford to eat that, but I think thats unreasonable. When you look at their investors information page, you can see their overall after tax profit margin, 9.5%. Just to get that meager 9.5% return, GW has to mark up the price of its products 400%... you can get this figure by comparing their cost of sales to their revenue. To put it another way, for GW to make 10 cents on the dollar, a miniature that cost GW $5 to make has to sell for $20. The 60% shift in tin price is the equivalent of that same $5 miniature suddenly costing GW $6.50 and to retain the same overall margin they have to sell it for $26... roughly a 23% bump in retail price.
People have done a break down by percentage of the cost increase for these different models; relatively few exceed 20%, but without the change of material the prices would have all jumped by at least 23%.
So while I agree price increase are bad, I don't think the numbers are lying and I think GW was justified in raising prices and changing materials in this fashion. This was inevitable as long as GW held overall margins steady. We would either see a 23% price increase or a 20% increase with improved casting properties; between the two we got the better deal.
Dude, totally faulty logic. Your example assumes that ALL costs have gone up 23%. That $5 in costs is made up of materials and costs to support making it. The element that needed to rise 20% was the material costs only - this should be offset to some degree by the drop in warehousing and selling where strategies over last 5 yrs have significantly cut costs.
If they need to sell something at 400% mark up to make 9.5% profit there is something fundamentally wrong.
Also how much tin is in plastic?
18474
Post by: Darth Bob
Lord Scythican wrote:Breotan wrote:Lord Scythican wrote:Wow so that would be like $87.00+ in dollars? Ok that is pretty bad.
Web site says $90. For five models. Yes, they're (dead) humans on (dead) horses but so are Empire and Bretonnian knights (except for the dead part) which are 8 for $35.00.
Wow...ok well if I play Vampire Counts anytime soon, I guess I will be buying from Mantic.
http://gamezoneminiatures.de/vampire.html
Gamezone makes very sexy not-Bloodknights. Still kinda pricy, but they look way cooler than the GW ones, are cheaper, and are metal if you don't like the new resin.
I'm planning on using these for my Bloodknights since GW's are now so expensive it's laughable. I thought the Blood Knights were WAY overpriced before, but this is just silly.
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
Bloodknights have been $90 for 5 models in the US for a couple years at least ever since the two big metal model price jumps in 7 months the first of which happened when the current Space Marine range was released. If they cost more than that in Finecast, that would really be something.
23793
Post by: Acardia
blasto0341 wrote:Possibly modified = new for me. And from what I see at 'ard boyz tournaments, it is plastic bins full of broken unpainted mini's that people use. Yeah, well maybe you call me an elitist but the painting awards I win for my army speak for itself. I was refering to how the cost will drive people out. I was wishful that it would be the people who dont put love into their armies. Are hot dogs the same price as steak? No, you pay more for the better product. Simple. Why else has GW been dominating for 20 years?
OT: Our preliminary round of 12 featured 12 armies at were at least WIP painted. Everyone at least had units that were complete. I still had fateweaver all shiny because I was a lazy punk and my FLGS didn't get him in until a week before. I will let you know how the standards have changed at round two.
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
blasto0341 wrote:No, you pay more for the better product. Simple. Why else has GW been dominating for 20 years?
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
11705
Post by: Oldgrue
blasto0341 wrote:Yeah, well maybe you call me an elitist but the painting awards I win for my army speak for itself.... I was wishful that it would be the people who dont put love into their armies.
Indeed, it speaks volumes about you.
blasto0431 wrote: Are hot dogs the same price as steak? No, you pay more for the better product. Simple.
The Steak analogy for GW product is arguable. Cost does not equal quality.
I'm forced to reconsider GW product after this latest round of price increases. The minimum cost of entry continues to increase out of proportion to other hobbies. Its a pity simply because there are less people to play against - and lots of them don't mind my having the painting skills of an epileptic fingerpainter and don't care about awards for my dollies.
24779
Post by: Eilif
blasto0341 wrote:Possibly modified = new for me. And from what I see at 'ard boyz tournaments, it is plastic bins full of broken unpainted mini's that people use. Yeah, well maybe you call me an elitist but the painting awards I win for my army speak for itself. I was refering to how the cost will drive people out. I was wishful that it would be the people who dont put love into their armies. Are hot dogs the same price as steak? No, you pay more for the better product. Simple. Why else has GW been dominating for 20 years?
I should have been more clear. My elitist comment was referring to your statement that you were glad they were raising prices. As I mentioned earlier I don't field any unpainted figures either.
I used the word "Rediculous" to refer to your hope that raising prices would drive out those players who don't paint. As I've already explained, there is no paralell between higher prices and painted figures.
18072
Post by: TBD
Lord Scythican wrote:TBD wrote:91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
These guys are now tied with the Stompa & Baneblade as the most expensive kit
Wow so that would be like $87.00+ in dollars? Ok that is pretty bad. There better be a price drop in these if they hit resin. The whole reason why they were so expensive before is because they were metal right? If they are made into resin, they shouldn't cost more than a box of Chaos Knights.
That 61.50 is the price for the new resin models . They used to cost 51.25 (pounds).
In the US the price will probably go up to $99,-
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Post by: Inanimate
Klueless wrote:Does anyone else find it ironic that they are using a cheaper material to make the models & so are putting the prices up???
Yes and no. Cheaper material would lead to less expenses and therefore lead to more money earned, but that's after some time. This transition costs money. It's not like they start saving money on day one. This price hike could therefore be a way of compensating for that initial loss. These models also seem to be targeted against a more experienced kind of modeller, and not all stores will stock everything (think I read that somewhere). This will make the product harder to sell, and therefore prices go up. Oh... and because they can, ofcourse!
blasto0341 wrote:I was refering to how the cost will drive people out.
It will drive all the wrong people out. The people you are referring to will still buy their buckets of ruined marines off eBay from kids who got tired of them for practically no money. I do spend quite some time on my models, and even though I'm not a great painter, I consider myself decent at least. This price hike is driving me away, at least from buying the finesculpts (plastic kits will still be ok priced since I have Maelstrom). Not because I can't afford or don't like the hobby, but because it's fething ridiculous to spend that much money on something like that (my opinion). I could afford buying $10 bottles of water daily, and still have money, but I wouldn't because it's fething stupid.
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Post by: blasto0341
Lolz at the people raging, just be happy you're not diggin ditches in a 3rd world country, but you're playing an awesome game. Yeah, it costs money such is life. It sucks you can't save every paycheck and let companies hand their product out for free to everyone. But complaining about it on a forum isn't helping the matter. If you hate GW, don't play their games or buy their product it is very simple.
Oldgrue- C'mon really? You should pick up basket weaving, I hear it's pretty cheap. Yeah, I take pride in my "Dollies". You should refer them as " Ork dollies" thank you very much. =D
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Post by: Darth Bob
blasto0341 wrote:Lolz at the people raging, just be happy you're not diggin ditches in a 3rd world country, but you're playing an awesome game. Yeah, it costs money such is life. It sucks you can't save every paycheck and let companies hand their product out for free to everyone. But complaining about it on a forum isn't helping the matter. If you hate GW, don't play their games or buy their product it is very simple.
Oldgrue- C'mon really? You should pick up basket weaving, I hear it's pretty cheap. Yeah, I take pride in my "Dollies". You should refer them as " Ork dollies" thank you very much. =D
It's not the fact that the hobby is expensive. It's the fact that the hobby is becoming erratically more and more expensive with no rhyme or reason other than the company's obvious greed.
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Post by: Oldgrue
blasto0341 wrote:
Oldgrue- C'mon really? You should pick up basket weaving, I hear it's pretty cheap.
I actually gave it up - pisses me off. Long story.
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Post by: Holdenstein
TBD wrote:Lord Scythican wrote:TBD wrote:91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
These guys are now tied with the Stompa & Baneblade as the most expensive kit
Wow so that would be like $87.00+ in dollars? Ok that is pretty bad. There better be a price drop in these if they hit resin. The whole reason why they were so expensive before is because they were metal right? If they are made into resin, they shouldn't cost more than a box of Chaos Knights.
That 61.50 is the price for the new resin models . They used to cost 51.25 (pounds).
In the US the price will probably go up to $99,-
And yet they are still less expensive than the Retribution Destors unit. This is what I don't understand about the "I'm going to PP" mentality. The way things are going PP is going to make GW look good value, even after this latest set of price rises.
If you want low cost gaming: go historical.
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Post by: Bavius
Is there any word if they are putting models together? Like hiveguard x 3 for one box?
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Post by: Trasvi
In monetary terms, I don't actually mind the slight price increase for some resin models *that much*. Sale price is determined by what the consumer thinks it is worth, and in my opinion, resin is a better material than metal and I would pay slightly more.
What I do mind is the greed that is oozing out of GW at the moment. They could have been happy with drastically reducing production costs. Profits would have soared. adding a price hike (quite substantial in some cases) at the same time as people know materials cost is decreasing is just insulting. I think that is what people are more angry about: our wallets can suffer the extra dollar or two, but GW is slapping us in the face, telling us they don't actually want us as customers anymore. Combined with significant price hikes on plastic kits, and trade embargoes, this is the end to suffering through GW's bullying for most people.
GW's products aren't so much significantly better than their competition now. In fact, their rules are significantly worse. If everyone posting hate does go through with their threats to quit, I think GW will be hurting when their next financials come out.
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Post by: Guildsman
Trasvi wrote:In monetary terms, I don't actually mind the slight price increase for some resin models *that much*. Sale price is determined by what the consumer thinks it is worth, and in my opinion, resin is a better material than metal and I would pay slightly more.
What I do mind is the greed that is oozing out of GW at the moment. They could have been happy with drastically reducing production costs. Profits would have soared. adding a price hike (quite substantial in some cases) at the same time as people know materials cost is decreasing is just insulting. I think that is what people are more angry about: our wallets can suffer the extra dollar or two, but GW is slapping us in the face, telling us they don't actually want us as customers anymore. Combined with significant price hikes on plastic kits, and trade embargoes, this is the end to suffering through GW's bullying for most people.
GW's products aren't so much significantly better than their competition now. In fact, their rules are significantly worse. If everyone posting hate does go through with their threats to quit, I think GW will be hurting when their next financials come out.
I think you nailed it. It's that double whammy of reducing production costs and simultaneously raising prices that has so many people upset. While GW dominated the market for many years, they've gotten too comfortable at the top, and lots of other companies are aiming for their spot. The problem is, even if every angry poster on dakka actually quits, it will take a while for GW to notice and appreciate the effect. It'll be attributed to the switch to resin at first.
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Post by: Shigematsu
What we need and what GW needs, is a proper rival.
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Post by: Tyrolean
Ravenous D wrote:Tyrolean wrote:Firstly, is Failcast going to try and kill me with it's prices and cancerous dust? The fragility of resin is also very troublesome, metal might be time consuming to pin properly but if it makes impact it's going to destroy something instead of shattering.
$45 for Chaos raptors? lol I'm sure they'll sell more
According to GW it is totally safe and kid friendly. From what I was told, you dont have to clean them either, GW just suggests that you do not file them as it will scratch the surface.
Know anything more on the physical properties of this material? Besides health issues I've worried about brittleness and strength, if they're going to charge such a premium for their products I'd hope they'd hold up at least as well as the metals.
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Post by: Kroothawk
1.) Material is supposedly not hazardous as resin dust.
2.) It is lighter (doh).
3.) It is able to show finer and more crisp details.
4.) It is slightly flexible. This can make assembly easier o some models.
5.) Washing the model is optional, but not obligatory as with some resin.
6.) Plastic glue doesn't work, use super glue or 2art epoxy glue.
7.) There might be flash as in metal models, better cut it with a knife than file it, as filing might roughen the surface (not sure if that is a hidden hint that dust might be still hazardous, but ATM they say otherwise).
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Post by: Alphacerberus
ive heard its not complete resin but a hybrid of plastic and other materials meaning its only dangerous if digested but it still doesn't account for the price increase unless theres some gold in there or something.
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Post by: Sarigar
Kroothawk wrote:1.) Material is supposedly not hazardous as resin dust.
2.) It is lighter (doh).
3.) It is able to show finer and more crisp details.
4.) It is slightly flexible. This can make assembly easier o some models.
5.) Washing the model is optional, but not obligatory as with some resin.
6.) Plastic glue doesn't work, use super glue or 2art epoxy glue.
7.) There might be flash as in metal models, better cut it with a knife than file it, as filing might roughen the surface (not sure if that is a hidden hint that dust might be still hazardous, but ATM they say otherwise).
I'd really love to be able to compare Eldar metals to this new Finecast. All for anything not metal, but concerned about price hikes, like most folks are.
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Post by: spaceelf
Is there any word on the status of specialist games?
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Post by: Tyrolean
Hmmm interesting. Thanks for the info! I guess we'll see in a week how this goes....
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Shigematsu wrote:What we need and what GW needs, is a proper rival.
GW's rival is all of the rest of wargaming.
GW present what I like to call the HHHobby -- a very enclosed world with a couple of rule sets you have to play with official figures, terrain, paints, even glue, all of which happen to be very expensive.
The rest of wargaming covers everything you can imagine or read about in history, SF and fantasy, at practically any scale.
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Post by: Flashman
Kilkrazy wrote:Shigematsu wrote:What we need and what GW needs, is a proper rival.
GW's rival is all of the rest of wargaming.
GW present what I like to call the HHHobby -- a very enclosed world with a couple of rule sets you have to play with official figures, terrain, paints, even glue, all of which happen to be very expensive.
The rest of wargaming covers everything you can imagine or read about in history, SF and fantasy, at practically any scale.
As Just Dave has said in another thread, terrain, paints and glue can be bought elsewhere and maybe this is a good focus for our wrath.
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Post by: RiTides
I got my clawed fiends- so that other list was definitely just things out of stock, because they're good old-fashioned metal.
The sculpt is out of this world awesome, in my opinion, too  
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Post by: Tyrolean
Lelith Hesperax is still $12 at my FLGS.....tempting me.
I've never understood why people buy GW's glue/terrain fixins/green stuff. It's all stupidly overpriced, I can get 3' of kneadatite on eBay for $16. Their glue and primer is terrible, and sand is sand
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Post by: RiTides
Actually, their plastic glue is excellent, in my opinion... I've tried a few others and didn't like them as much, and switched back.
For super glue, Gorilla-brand is far superior, however!
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Post by: NAVARRO
RiTides wrote:Actually, their plastic glue is excellent, in my opinion... I've tried a few others and didn't like them as much, and switched back.
For super glue, Gorilla-brand is far superior, however!
For plastics try Revell Contacta professional with the metal applicator... It will last you a lifetime and its very accurate.
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Post by: Just Dave
I'm actually a big fan of their superglue; I could get nothing to work trying to construct an obliterator (frickin' hate that model), but GW Superglue worked perfectly* and I haven't looked back since...
*Probably some sneaky ploy at work there.
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Post by: filbert
RiTides wrote:
For super glue, Gorilla-brand is far superior, however!
P'shaw! Loctite Gel is the canine's testicles! Automatically Appended Next Post: NAVARRO wrote:RiTides wrote:Actually, their plastic glue is excellent, in my opinion... I've tried a few others and didn't like them as much, and switched back.
For super glue, Gorilla-brand is far superior, however!
For plastics try Revell Contacta professional with the metal applicator... It will last you a lifetime and its very accurate.
I concur!
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Post by: Just Dave
filbert wrote:RiTides wrote:
For super glue, Gorilla-brand is far superior, however!
P'shaw! Loctite Gel is the canine's testicles!
The man's got a point:
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Post by: Kanluwen
Tyrolean wrote:
I've never understood why people buy GW's glue/terrain fixins/green stuff. It's all stupidly overpriced, I can get 3' of kneadatite on eBay for $16. Their glue and primer is terrible, and sand is sand
Convenience.
Why do people buy candy, magazines, or drinks from the whole 'scamscheme' area next to the checkout counter at the grocery store? Or coffee when they get gas for their cars, etc.
Convenience, Tyrolean.
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Post by: Tyrolean
I've been using Zap-a-gap thin and regular, been pleased with it so far. For plastics I've stuck with Testors, the red tubed stuff. $1.50 instead of.....$6.60??? Geez
NAVARRO wrote:RiTides wrote:Actually, their plastic glue is excellent, in my opinion... I've tried a few others and didn't like them as much, and switched back.
For super glue, Gorilla-brand is far superior, however!
For plastics try Revell Contacta professional with the metal applicator... It will last you a lifetime and its very accurate.
Ya I've been looking at that or the Testors equivalent once I run out of all my tubes
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Post by: Samus_aran115
RiTides wrote:Actually, their plastic glue is excellent, in my opinion... I've tried a few others and didn't like them as much, and switched back.
For super glue, Gorilla-brand is far superior, however!
I agree. I've had nothing but success with GW hobby products. I tried getting some different grass for bases, and I didn't like it as much. GW's snip-snaps, brushes and PVA glue are all excellent, and irreplaceable, IMO.
I disagree about that last part, but since gorilla uses GW's old super glue bottles, I may very well pick some up. I love the old bottles. the brush is nice, but it's different...
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Post by: Just Dave
Tyrolean wrote:I've been using Zap-a-gap thin and regular, been pleased with it so far.
I was using zap-a-gap (might have been the green bottle instead) on my oblit's and it wasn't working, which was when I used GW superglue with success... 
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Post by: Samus_aran115
Have you been using the brush on stuff, or the old, indiscriminate bottles? I agree that GW has some of the best super glue. It smells much better than some of the other stuff I've used too. That's important, especially when you're standing over it for hours at a time putting a new unit together
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Post by: Just Dave
Honestly, I can't remember...
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Post by: Inanimate
Samus_aran115 wrote:Have you been using the brush on stuff, or the old, indiscriminate bottles? I agree that GW has some of the best super glue. It smells much better than some of the other stuff I've used too. That's important, especially when you're standing over it for hours at a time putting a new unit together
LOL. Their superglue has a particularly acrid smell imo. I use Loctite Superglue (Precision) for metals and Citadels plastic glue for plastics. I have used the Revell Contacta with the metal applicator, but mine got clogged up after a while. Anyone have any tips on how to avoid that?
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Post by: Tyrolean
Just Dave wrote:Tyrolean wrote:I've been using Zap-a-gap thin and regular, been pleased with it so far.
I was using zap-a-gap (might have been the green bottle instead) on my oblit's and it wasn't working, which was when I used GW superglue with success...
Hmmm odd, although if I'm doing any serious pinning I usually do some roughing with diamond files and then wash it up to get the best bond possible.
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Post by: Eilif
The brand of Superglue is not nearly as important as the type/viscosity. All hobbyists owe it to themselves to have both a thick gap filling superglue and a thin watery superglue on hand at their workspace.
I have a hunch that the many folks who glue them selves to their work were using a thin runny superglue to attach metal parts when they should have been using a thicker gap-fililng super glue.
Likewise, when you've got two parts that are perfectly flat or an existing join that needs strenghthening, don't reach for the thick glue.
I've used many brands and never had a problem with them so long as I was using the right kind.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Kanluwen wrote:Tyrolean wrote:
I've never understood why people buy GW's glue/terrain fixins/green stuff. It's all stupidly overpriced, I can get 3' of kneadatite on eBay for $16. Their glue and primer is terrible, and sand is sand
Convenience.
Why do people buy candy, magazines, or drinks from the whole 'scamscheme' area next to the checkout counter at the grocery store? Or coffee when they get gas for their cars, etc.
Convenience, Tyrolean.
Exactly so. I have always said this. A lot of GW's tools and stuff are pretty good, just very expensive.
We are vets, though, and we know how to buy stuff better and cheaper from other sources.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Sorry if this disrupts the off topic discussion
June will see the following Tomb King models as a Finecast release (thanks to Archibald_TK on Warseer for posting these):
Casket of Souls - 45.5€
Ushabti with Bows - 39€
Ushabti with GW - 39€
Tomb King with GW - 12.5€
Lich Priest - 12.5€
Necrotech - 12.5€
Prince Apophas - 15€
Tlotsqi over at Warseer also confirmed Haemunculus, Wracks (26€) and Grotesques ( WD next week will show).
Another tidbit:
ghost21 wrote:BramGaunt wrote:No, the new format fits the blister racks. No need to redesign. The new pack is only a little bigger than a blister, afaik, and the boxes fit with the other GW standart boxes aswell. As a matter of fact, I don't think the 5 man boxes will change on the outside at all, only the Citadel Finecast Logo will be somewhere. Probably all across it, on a second thought...
But even these blister "racks" will only be in stores until they are sold, then they go back to being direct only.
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Post by: Little Pete
Inanimate wrote:
LOL. Their superglue has a particularly acrid smell imo. I use Loctite Superglue (Precision) for metals and Citadels plastic glue for plastics. I have used the Revell Contacta with the metal applicator, but mine got clogged up after a while. Anyone have any tips on how to avoid that?
Guitar strings. I use a bit of leftover high E string (thinnest one) from set of 11s. This works out to a B string (second thinnest) from the more standard set of 9s many people play with. You can probably get a single string of the appropriate size for about £/$ 1-2 from a music store.
I really like finding this out because the needle applicators are great but you need something very thin, an inch or two long and strong to clear out clogged nozzles.
All the best
Pete
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Post by: NAVARRO
Little Pete wrote:Inanimate wrote:
LOL. Their superglue has a particularly acrid smell imo. I use Loctite Superglue (Precision) for metals and Citadels plastic glue for plastics. I have used the Revell Contacta with the metal applicator, but mine got clogged up after a while. Anyone have any tips on how to avoid that?
Guitar strings. I use a bit of leftover high E string (thinnest one) from set of 11s. This works out to a B string (second thinnest) from the more standard set of 9s many people play with. You can probably get a single string of the appropriate size for about £/$ 1-2 from a music store.
I really like finding this out because the needle applicators are great but you need something very thin, an inch or two long and strong to clear out clogged nozzles.
All the best
Pete
I use a lighter and burn the metal tip.
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Post by: Happygrunt
Oh, just an FYI, DE are getting a Haemonculi model, and it looks identical to the picture in the codex.
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Post by: Tyrolean
Little Pete wrote:Inanimate wrote:
LOL. Their superglue has a particularly acrid smell imo. I use Loctite Superglue (Precision) for metals and Citadels plastic glue for plastics. I have used the Revell Contacta with the metal applicator, but mine got clogged up after a while. Anyone have any tips on how to avoid that?
Guitar strings. I use a bit of leftover high E string (thinnest one) from set of 11s. This works out to a B string (second thinnest) from the more standard set of 9s many people play with. You can probably get a single string of the appropriate size for about £/$ 1-2 from a music store.
I really like finding this out because the needle applicators are great but you need something very thin, an inch or two long and strong to clear out clogged nozzles.
All the best
Pete
^this. Or if you're very lucky to have a hobby shop that carries music wire, have a hard time cutting through the 2mm stuff even with bolt cutters. Comes in all sizes, marked for metric and imperial Automatically Appended Next Post: Excited about the new DE, I'm hoping that the Finecast is more like a plastic as rumored.
As a side note, when I visited my local Hobbytown the GW aisle was crammed with unopened shipping boxes. Has anyone else noticed suspicious stockpiles?
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Post by: Inanimate
Tyrolean wrote:Little Pete wrote:Inanimate wrote:
LOL. Their superglue has a particularly acrid smell imo. I use Loctite Superglue (Precision) for metals and Citadels plastic glue for plastics. I have used the Revell Contacta with the metal applicator, but mine got clogged up after a while. Anyone have any tips on how to avoid that?
Guitar strings. I use a bit of leftover high E string (thinnest one) from set of 11s. This works out to a B string (second thinnest) from the more standard set of 9s many people play with. You can probably get a single string of the appropriate size for about £/$ 1-2 from a music store.
I really like finding this out because the needle applicators are great but you need something very thin, an inch or two long and strong to clear out clogged nozzles.
All the best
Pete
^this. Or if you're very lucky to have a hobby shop that carries music wire, have a hard time cutting through the 2mm stuff even with bolt cutters. Comes in all sizes, marked for metric and imperial
Thanks, great tips! I do already have a lot of leftover strings (a lot from .13 sets, but thinner as well). If nothing fits, then burning the glue away sounds fun enough.
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Post by: Praxiss
Inanimate wrote:Samus_aran115 wrote:Have you been using the brush on stuff, or the old, indiscriminate bottles? I agree that GW has some of the best super glue. It smells much better than some of the other stuff I've used too. That's important, especially when you're standing over it for hours at a time putting a new unit together
LOL. Their superglue has a particularly acrid smell imo. I use Loctite Superglue (Precision) for metals and Citadels plastic glue for plastics. I have used the Revell Contacta with the metal applicator, but mine got clogged up after a while. Anyone have any tips on how to avoid that?
Exactly what i am using. Only switched to the Loctite a few dasy ago but it is VASTLY superior to GW water thin rubbish. i could proably even use it without pinning....if pinning now more of a habit than a requirement.
I am plannign on gettign some of the Revell glue when my current GW plastci glue runs out.
For cleanign out the tube, maybe a long sewing needle/.
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Post by: Tyrolean
Inanimate wrote:Tyrolean wrote:Little Pete wrote:Inanimate wrote:
LOL. Their superglue has a particularly acrid smell imo. I use Loctite Superglue (Precision) for metals and Citadels plastic glue for plastics. I have used the Revell Contacta with the metal applicator, but mine got clogged up after a while. Anyone have any tips on how to avoid that?
Guitar strings. I use a bit of leftover high E string (thinnest one) from set of 11s. This works out to a B string (second thinnest) from the more standard set of 9s many people play with. You can probably get a single string of the appropriate size for about £/$ 1-2 from a music store.
I really like finding this out because the needle applicators are great but you need something very thin, an inch or two long and strong to clear out clogged nozzles.
All the best
Pete
^this. Or if you're very lucky to have a hobby shop that carries music wire, have a hard time cutting through the 2mm stuff even with bolt cutters. Comes in all sizes, marked for metric and imperial
Thanks, great tips! I do already have a lot of leftover strings (a lot from .13 sets, but thinner as well). If nothing fits, then burning the glue away sounds fun enough.
Ya that's what I did at work to get epoxy off spatulas, burn it then scrape with a blade. Sorry for the off topic 
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Post by: Kroothawk
It's really hard to break through all this off-topic talk. Here another try, posted on Warseer by Vaiuri:
Apparently the move to resin is actually costing GW MORE than producing in plastic, hence the price rise. Spin, or truth, make of it what you will, but I believe the person who told me this.
Some other bits of info I've gleaned about the resin - some models will be single casts, think the current single metal blisters. Others will be on a sprue, Uruk-hai being the example I was given, these will be on sprues of 4 - again, explaining some of the price hike.
The resin being used is NOTHING like FW resin, no where near as much messing and cleaning up, plus no release agent, so you wont need to give your models a bath before you do anything with them.
The resin being used also reacts with superglue, so when you use the glue on the model it creates a super-strong bond. It also absorbs paint somewhat, meaning no chips - what this means in terms of stripping models I cannot say.
The resin IS supposed to be very robust, and any breakages can be easily fixed via super-glue (creating a super-strong bond as I mentioned earlier).
The models being recast are using the same masters, but the quality of the cast is supposed to be out of this world. I look forward to seeing it with my own eyes.
Expect a GW announcement on Monday.
First pics by The Death Angel over at Warseer:
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Post by: Slinky
Interesting, thanks!
From the Queek pics, does it look like these are new moulds, or the old ones? Not seen metal models in the straight-from-the-mould state...
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Post by: combat engineer
They look to be carbon copies of their metal/ pewter predessors. I don't see any difference, but I am sure someone will correct me.
Mat 
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Post by: Alpharius
So, will FW be able to use this clearly superior resin too?
Please?
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Post by: Kanluwen
Alpharius wrote:So, will FW be able to use this clearly superior resin too?
Please?
Dunno. I'd hope so, but I'm not holding my breath for it.
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Post by: cygnnus
Slinky wrote:Interesting, thanks!
From the Queek pics, does it look like these are new moulds, or the old ones? Not seen metal models in the straight-from-the-mould state...
The Queek model, on sprue, doesn't look anything like metal spin-cast molds I've ever seen before. I'm guessing it's a new mold made from the original master.
I'm just curious about this whole "the resin/plastic hybrid material costs GW more" angle... Mantic used what I have to assume is a similar material with some of their kits and the resulting product was much cheaper than the metal originals. Privateer Press went with what I have to assume is a similar material for their starter kits and those come out at about the same price as the old metal ones. So either GW has a more expensive material or else someone's blowing smoke...
Valete,
JohnS
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Post by: RiTides
I dearly, dearly hope this resin is not similar to whatever it is that PP is using on their plastic kits. The only one I have is fennblades, but I highly prefer PP's metal... that material was not good, in my opinion.
I'm actually quite interested in this Finecast move by GW... I know we're all upset about price rises, and the obviously angering move to restrict UK shippers, but the move to resin is the biggest thing that's happened in the hobby in a long time, and I'd like to think that they know what they're doing with it.
Let's wait and see!
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Post by: Tyrolean
It'll be nice to get Eldar HQ's in something that isn't metal but the Avatar still looks like Rosie O'donell. I wish they would have used this opportunity to do some re-sculpts where they were needed most.
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Post by: GCMandrake
Alpharius wrote:So, will FW be able to use this clearly superior resin too?
Please?
Nope. The reason FW's models have better looking detail on them is because their moulds are made of flexible rubber, letting them get away with small undercuts while being able to remove the model from the mould. Occasionally you get FW models with bits of blue rubber stuck in one of those undercuts - if anyone has a FW Ork Warboss on a bike with a odd bump on his left foot, it's because I've got that bit of mould.
This new resin appears to require spin casting rather than FW's gravity feed. So no. It's unlikely FW will switch to this.
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Post by: Necros
I do like the idea of bigger metal models being resin now .. but, based on the pics above the resin versions look just like the metals... I guess some details might end up being more crisp but by the time you prime and paint them, I bet you're really not gonna notice...
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Post by: dantay_xv
Maybe we might finally get some Thunderwolf cavalry, instead of converting the 1 metal beast that they made.
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Post by: Le Grognard
They mention superior materials, superior detail, but not the superior pricing. 
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Post by: Swordwind
Hmm... No mention of prices yet... Is there hope? Probably not. Must... Resist... Autarch....
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Post by: Alphacerberus
pretty sure this looks identical to this
i mean where are they getting breathtaking and outstanding and a revelation? there exactly the same except one feels like ive been robbed xD
2
41670
Post by: Swordwind
I'm just dreading pinning mine.
24847
Post by: Boomstick
Im impressed obviously i don’t like price rises but the design cost to do this which can only benefit the hobby as a whole makes it on this occasion more tolerable. I only wish they would come out with statements such as were doing this to make it better but will we will have to rise prices £x more and id would have been happier than just having it sprung on me.
17796
Post by: Slinky
That's clearly the same Autarch model, aye - looks like they haven't bothered to paint a new one for the box cover?
34708
Post by: Alphacerberus
Sorry to steal another spot but "I expect a lot of Games Workshop Hobby Centres to look like this"
they want the stores like this? when i believe the 2nd picture could be more accurate on the price changes
2
6210
Post by: Le Grognard
From the GW Facebook page thread about the blog announcement, people are asking about pricing:
"For those of you interested in the details, including price, we'll have these online Midnight GMT on Friday, or you can check them out in stores on Saturday."
Yep, doesn't sound good to me, the 'price rise' alarm is going off in my head.
31079
Post by: warspawned
Apparently the move to resin is actually costing GW MORE than producing in plastic, hence the price rise. Spin, or truth, make of it what you will, but I believe the person who told me this.
I've no doubt it's more expensive than plastic, but it shouldn't be as expensive as metal, unless the price increase is to try & balance the books for their investment, which they shouldn't have made if the money wasn't there in the first place 
We'll have to wait & see what the prices are like...any bets?
44009
Post by: curtistandoh
I am really liking the idea of moving from Metal to Resin but the prices are just holding me back :-|
6210
Post by: Le Grognard
warspawned wrote:Apparently the move to resin is actually costing GW MORE than producing in plastic, hence the price rise. Spin, or truth, make of it what you will, but I believe the person who told me this.
I've no doubt it's more expensive than plastic, but it shouldn't be as expensive as metal, unless the price increase is to try & balance the books for their investment, which they shouldn't have made if the money wasn't there in the first place We'll have to wait & see what the prices are like...any bets?
Gotta be at least 10%, anything less wouldn't be worth it, and anything more would be a mad grab for cash. So I guess they'll prove me wrong and it'll be way above 10%.
666
Post by: Necros
I don't think I'll be buying any finecast models for a while... I just went and got metals for everything I needed for my goblins.. I guess we'll see when new Necrons come out...
I guess all this price raising stuff doesn't bug me so much cuz I have enough stuff to paint right now I could go a year or more without buying a new model and still have plenty to work on...
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Necros wrote:I don't think I'll be buying any finecast models for a while... I just went and got metals for everything I needed for my goblins..
I should be doing just that for my gobbos also but unfortunatly theres other fishes to catch first and I'm not much inclined to panic buy.
23976
Post by: Inanimate
Le Grognard wrote:warspawned wrote:Apparently the move to resin is actually costing GW MORE than producing in plastic, hence the price rise. Spin, or truth, make of it what you will, but I believe the person who told me this.
I've no doubt it's more expensive than plastic, but it shouldn't be as expensive as metal, unless the price increase is to try & balance the books for their investment, which they shouldn't have made if the money wasn't there in the first place
We'll have to wait & see what the prices are like...any bets?
Gotta be at least 10%, anything less wouldn't be worth it, and anything more would be a mad grab for cash. So I guess they'll prove me wrong and it'll be way above 10%.
10% sounds reasonable, but I'd put the cap at 15%. This switch must've cost them a lot of money, and I don't think the cut in material costs alone would validate this kind of move. What I hope for is that unit sales will spike for a month or so, leading to increased revenue and the investment being returned super fast so that they can cut the price back, but that's unlikely.
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
The Finecast announcement is the least troublesome to me of the four spear points customers were hit with last week. Here's why.
First, as there is a general price hike to much of their product line this coming weekend anyway, annoying as that is I wouldn't blame it on the Finecast change. This is the time of year GW usually has its annual price increase.
Second, I actually welcome the material change. After more than two decades in this hobby I've grown weary of certain issues associated with metal models. Now that the same or nearly same level of detail can be captured in plastics I've severely curtailed my purchases of metal miniatures the past couple years, especially since box sets are a much better deal for your money than buying single model blisters, many of which sell for more than $20 now. Though the prices will still be high for single Finecast miniatures, many of the larger kits that were still metal are extremely heavy and fragile because of their own weight. That issue will be mitigated with the change to Finecast. And plastics of any kind, polystyrene or resins, generally hold paint better than metal. I'm really looking forward to less paint touch ups on edges, especially pointed bits or bits with fine edges.
For me, the change to resin is a welcome one. The only remaining issue with these single models is the price. I do feel they've gotten way out of line the past couple years and unfortunately that problem is not going to be mitigated by the change from pewter to resin. But otherwise it's a welcome change and there are some models I would consider buying now that I would not before because I didn't want any more large metal kits.
33910
Post by: Ajroo
BrassScorpion wrote: it's a welcome change and there are some models I would consider buying now that I would not before because I didn't want any more large metal kits.
i know its more expensive, but i can finally have azhag, without all the hassle of the massive model. worth it
21499
Post by: Mr. Burning
Just read this on GW's website:
One thing you'll notice immediately when you pick them up is the exceptionally sharp detail on the model, which can only be described as staggering. For dedicated painters (which we all are to some extent) this is a dream come true.
If the original sculpt was soft how can finecast details be any sharper?
Just interested in how GW would get sharper detail off an existing sculpt (that metal failed to achieve). Or is the GW promoting the cap out of plastic being......the new plastic?
17645
Post by: TheFirstBorn
Is there any news on them doing vossies in resin? that would make my life..
36143
Post by: snake
So should I even bother assembling and painting my terminators? Are they just going to be re-released as finecast?
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Whats the point on redoing the whole white metal Ctadel range when new modles have just come out?
Well at least ebay get a benfit form this...rare opp average gauardsmen with heavy weapons...Very opp..This is becuase GW are stupid and think they will get more custumers doing this when they won't because of the huge price difference.
Or that armys with whine metail modles would be quite rare in a about 10 to 20 years or so..(Thats is GW are still going)...
Hope this is a good contibution.
HAZZER
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
i know its more expensive, but i can finally have azhag, without all the hassle of the massive model. worth it
When the Tyranid book came out with the new Swarmlord idea I really wanted to convert one, but I already have a massive metal Hive Tyrant and just didn't want to mess with another one. I would consider it now that the model no longer weighs so much. Storage and weight are an issue to me these days because I have so many models.
23976
Post by: Inanimate
Mr. Burning wrote:Just read this on GW's website:
One thing you'll notice immediately when you pick them up is the exceptionally sharp detail on the model, which can only be described as staggering. For dedicated painters (which we all are to some extent) this is a dream come true.
If the original sculpt was soft how can finecast details be any sharper?
Just interested in how GW would get sharper detail off an existing sculpt (that metal failed to achieve). Or is the GW promoting the cap out of plastic being......the new plastic?
I don't know, really. In all honesty, that Emperor's Champion they featured looks exactly like mine after I based it with Dheneb Stone (not as grey, but you get it ). The chain around his neck, the handle on the sword, the blade, the skull purity seal, the fingers... all of those fine details are captured on the pewter ones as well. Maybe it comes down to a trick of the eye where details are easier to make out because of the darker, non-shimmery tone of the resin?
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Mr. Burning wrote:Just read this on GW's website:
One thing you'll notice immediately when you pick them up is the exceptionally sharp detail on the model, which can only be described as staggering. For dedicated painters (which we all are to some extent) this is a dream come true.
If the original sculpt was soft how can finecast details be any sharper?
Just interested in how GW would get sharper detail off an existing sculpt (that metal failed to achieve). Or is the GW promoting the cap out of plastic being......the new plastic?
Because they likely made the Finecast molds directly from the master, rather than making a master and converting to the other.
That's just a theory though.
38150
Post by: Dark Apostle 666
Sorry, so do we know if this resin mix is "safe" to work with? Cos' I've heard some nasty rumours and I'd like this to be cleared up.
I hope this means the re-release of the CSM havocs and plague marines, both of which I avoided buying due to them being metal.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Dark Apostle 666 wrote:Sorry, so do we know if this resin mix is "safe" to work with? Cos' I've heard some nasty rumours and I'd like this to be cleared up.
I hope this means the re-release of the CSM havocs and plague marines, both of which I avoided buying due to them being metal.
Yes. We know it, like all kinds of resin, is safe to work with.
Unlike the "other" resin, you won't need to work outside or with a dust mask/ventilation system in place because it's not pure resin--but a plastic/resin mix.
38150
Post by: Dark Apostle 666
Thanks, I'm now quite excited about the new models. Hurrah for GW! (never heard that before...)
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
For those who cannot visit the GW website from their current locations, here's the announcement from today about Finecast:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16700019a
Last week we made a little announcement about the new Citadel Finecast range. Of course, it's all been very secret-squirrel here at Head Office, so much so that only a few of us have actually seen the new miniatures. With that in mind, we decided to let the guys in the Studio write today's blog post, after all they are the ones that have spent the last few months living and breathing Citadel Finecast.
Andy Hall: Last week we announced something very special - so special in fact that it's nothing less than a new era in wargaming, as we launch the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen - Citadel Finecast.
Wow, that's quite a statement isn't it? Nonetheless, it is very true. On the 28th of May we launch Citadel Finecast, miniatures of such exquisite detail that they are the closest representation of the sculptors' original that we have ever been able to make. Until you hold one in your hand and see it for yourself, it's hard to describe just how detailed they are.
So, what are Citadel Finecast miniatures and why are we making the change? Quite simply, Citadel Finecast is the next step in the evolution in tabletop miniatures wargaming. From the start, Games Workshop has always innovated and sought to increase the quality of our models - Citadel Finecast is the next step in that process. There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world, and we're proud and very excited for you all to see this for yourselves.
The Citadel Finecast miniatures are all made from a unique resin formula. For us as hobbyists, this is great news. The resin is easy to work with and quick to cut off the sprue, making assembling a miniature easier than it has ever been. Not only that, but it's incredibly light too, which means pinning wings and other heavy components will be a thing of the past. So, quick and durable, that's a good start. But of course, one of the main reasons for this change to resin was quality. One thing you'll notice immediately when you pick them up is the exceptionally sharp detail on the model, which can only be described as staggering. For dedicated painters (which we all are to some extent) this is a dream come true.
This Saturday is going to be a landmark day in Games Workshop's history. No matter which country you live in, when the doors of your local Hobby Centre open for business on Saturday morning, you'll find over 100 new clampacks and boxed sets of Citadel Finecast miniatures. This is your chance to come and have a look and make up your own mind about the bold claims I've made above. You won't be disappointed.
You should also make sure you pick up June's White Dwarf. In it I'll be discussing the new kits even further, and talking to such luminaries as 'Eavy Metal's Joe Tomaszewski about what it's like paint Citadel Finecast, as well as veteran miniatures designer Aly Morrison regarding what the future holds when sculpting for the new medium. To quote Aly: "In a way it will push us to try things we could never realise before; to add even more dynamism to the models." Being a hobbyist first and foremost, that's a very exciting thing for me to hear.
So, what next? Every day this week we'll be adding more images of upcoming Citadel Finecast models to the website leading up to the launch on Saturday. All you need to do is make sure you're at your local Games Workshop Hobby Centre this Saturday for the grand unveiling.
*
The Eldar range is often seen as the epitome of intricate, beautiful miniatures. Re-moulding them as Citadel Finecast pieces only helps to further that image.
*
Even the 'Eavy Metal team, veteran painters one and all, were in awe of the new miniatures. Details such as spirit stones and feathers are now cleaner and crisper than they've ever been.
*
In some cases, whole regiments have been converted into resin kits and the Blood Knights are the perfect example of this. These famously heavy models are now light as a feather, easy to assemble and extremely durable.
*
The finished Blood Knight Castellan is a piece of art in its own right. Areas of detail such as fur and hair are superbly well-defined, allowing you to really go to town with you paint-job. Even the armour plates have crisper, tidier detail.
*
Characters like Gandalf the White have never looked so good. Now re-born in Citadel Finecast, you can truly appreciate the level of detail that can be achieved - it's like looking at a new miniature.
*
Cloaks and capes require a superb casting to ensure a smooth surface for the painter to work on. The Citadel Finecast version of Gandalf is an outstanding example of that.
Now that you've seen a few of them, I'm sure a lot of you are thinking the same thing that I am: what one do you get first? After much deliberation, I reckon I'll be outside my local store pretty early on Saturday morning (6am with coffee in hand) to pick up Warlord Queek Headtaker. I look forward to seeing a lot of you there, where you can pick up the new models, have a look at them and choose which ones to add to your collection. I expect a lot of Games Workshop Hobby Centres to look like this
25300
Post by: Absolutionis
From Facebook via comment:
Games Workshop: Also, chaps, we've spotted the odd comment about the safety of the resin. As with all our products, this has been vigorously checked. There are currently many formulations of resin used across the world. The resin material we are using for Citadel Finecast models has undergone testing by a leading international toy safety testing agency. They identified no risks to health and recommend no special precautions.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
BrassScorpion wrote:For those who cannot visit the GW website from their current locations, here's the announcement from today about Finecast:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16700019a
Last week we made a little announcement about the new Citadel Finecast range. Of course, it's all been very secret-squirrel here at Head Office, so much so that only a few of us have actually seen the new miniatures. With that in mind, we decided to let the guys in the Studio write today's blog post, after all they are the ones that have spent the last few months living and breathing Citadel Finecast.
Andy Hall: Last week we announced something very special - so special in fact that it's nothing less than a new era in wargaming, as we launch the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen - Citadel Finecast.
Wow, that's quite a statement isn't it? Nonetheless, it is very true. On the 28th of May we launch Citadel Finecast, miniatures of such exquisite detail that they are the closest representation of the sculptors' original that we have ever been able to make. Until you hold one in your hand and see it for yourself, it's hard to describe just how detailed they are.
So, what are Citadel Finecast miniatures and why are we making the change? Quite simply, Citadel Finecast is the next step in the evolution in tabletop miniatures wargaming. From the start, Games Workshop has always innovated and sought to increase the quality of our models - Citadel Finecast is the next step in that process. There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world, and we're proud and very excited for you all to see this for yourselves.
The Citadel Finecast miniatures are all made from a unique resin formula. For us as hobbyists, this is great news. The resin is easy to work with and quick to cut off the sprue, making assembling a miniature easier than it has ever been. Not only that, but it's incredibly light too, which means pinning wings and other heavy components will be a thing of the past. So, quick and durable, that's a good start. But of course, one of the main reasons for this change to resin was quality. One thing you'll notice immediately when you pick them up is the exceptionally sharp detail on the model, which can only be described as staggering. For dedicated painters (which we all are to some extent) this is a dream come true.
This Saturday is going to be a landmark day in Games Workshop's history. No matter which country you live in, when the doors of your local Hobby Centre open for business on Saturday morning, you'll find over 100 new clampacks and boxed sets of Citadel Finecast miniatures. This is your chance to come and have a look and make up your own mind about the bold claims I've made above. You won't be disappointed.
You should also make sure you pick up June's White Dwarf. In it I'll be discussing the new kits even further, and talking to such luminaries as 'Eavy Metal's Joe Tomaszewski about what it's like paint Citadel Finecast, as well as veteran miniatures designer Aly Morrison regarding what the future holds when sculpting for the new medium. To quote Aly: "In a way it will push us to try things we could never realise before; to add even more dynamism to the models." Being a hobbyist first and foremost, that's a very exciting thing for me to hear.
So, what next? Every day this week we'll be adding more images of upcoming Citadel Finecast models to the website leading up to the launch on Saturday. All you need to do is make sure you're at your local Games Workshop Hobby Centre this Saturday for the grand unveiling.
*
The Eldar range is often seen as the epitome of intricate, beautiful miniatures. Re-moulding them as Citadel Finecast pieces only helps to further that image.
*
Even the 'Eavy Metal team, veteran painters one and all, were in awe of the new miniatures. Details such as spirit stones and feathers are now cleaner and crisper than they've ever been.
*
In some cases, whole regiments have been converted into resin kits and the Blood Knights are the perfect example of this. These famously heavy models are now light as a feather, easy to assemble and extremely durable.
*
The finished Blood Knight Castellan is a piece of art in its own right. Areas of detail such as fur and hair are superbly well-defined, allowing you to really go to town with you paint-job. Even the armour plates have crisper, tidier detail.
*
Characters like Gandalf the White have never looked so good. Now re-born in Citadel Finecast, you can truly appreciate the level of detail that can be achieved - it's like looking at a new miniature.
*
Cloaks and capes require a superb casting to ensure a smooth surface for the painter to work on. The Citadel Finecast version of Gandalf is an outstanding example of that.
Now that you've seen a few of them, I'm sure a lot of you are thinking the same thing that I am: what one do you get first? After much deliberation, I reckon I'll be outside my local store pretty early on Saturday morning (6am with coffee in hand) to pick up Warlord Queek Headtaker. I look forward to seeing a lot of you there, where you can pick up the new models, have a look at them and choose which ones to add to your collection. I expect a lot of Games Workshop Hobby Centres to look like this
I've allready posted it:
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
HAZZER wrote:I've allready posted it:
I saw your post. You only posted the link. Not everyone can visit the GW website during the day because it is blocked from their work locations, so I posted the full text, not just the link. And I already stated that reason in my previous post! Now we have two more useless posts in this thread, yours erroneously pointing out that you "already posted it" and my unfortunately necessary rebuttal explaining to you why I posted the text with the source link. Wow, how I love forums sometimes. Now that I can learn everything else I need to know about this topic in just a few days at my local store, I can unsubscribe to this thread which at this point has probably outlived its usefulness.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
HAZZER wrote:I've allready posted it:
Yep, you posted the link 2 hours after Yakface to be precise
16387
Post by: Manchu
Merging duplicate thread: tgf wrote:I post this once before and got accused of trolling, so I went to my LGS and talked to the owner and he allowed me to read the letter from GW. Finecast mini's will not be stocked in the US for the forseeable future. They will be special order only and stores are only allowed to order 3 of any finecast model at a time. In addition to that there was a warning about trying to circumvent the system. Finecast will be in very limited supply in the US.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/370983.page
8926
Post by: BladeWalker
I, for one, welcome our new resin overlords.
Getting Vanguards and Sternguards first.
4335
Post by: whoadirty
From the merged thread:
whoadirty wrote:And when the popular models (eg Hive Guard) sell out and Canada can't get the Finecast ones, what then?
Kanluwen wrote:Do you really think the entire current stock of Hive Guard, worldwide, is going to be selling out in 5 months? And do you really think that the entirety of Canada will not be getting Finecast?
That, if this rumor is true, is not the case. Your LGS will not be able to get Finecast. Your local GW shop will be able to.
Well, I can't buy them from GW's website and there is a whopping two NIB on Ebay, both from the UK. Oh, and my local GW shop is 600 KMs away. GW is making nothing easier on their customers.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
whoadirty wrote:From the merged thread:
whoadirty wrote:And when the popular models (eg Hive Guard) sell out and Canada can't get the Finecast ones, what then?
Kanluwen wrote:Do you really think the entire current stock of Hive Guard, worldwide, is going to be selling out in 5 months? And do you really think that the entirety of Canada will not be getting Finecast?
That, if this rumor is true, is not the case. Your LGS will not be able to get Finecast. Your local GW shop will be able to.
Well, I can't buy them from GW's website and there is a whopping two NIB on Ebay, both from the UK. Oh, and my local GW shop is 600 KMs away. GW is making nothing easier on their customers.
The "local" GW shop for me is across state lines.
You can't buy the Hive Guard from GW's website because they're being converted to 'Finecast'. They won't be back in stock till around the 28th.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Here a summary of how I think the future of the miniature range is planned by GW:
1.) This week, all GW stores send their metal miniatures, including blisters, boxes and hybrid kits, back to GW central to be sold as direct only. Non-GW stores don't have the option to send them back. Only stores that can get mail order only things (called Premium stores from now on) can get metal miniatures from now on.
2.) The most important current metal miniatures are recast in Finecast. GW stores and Premium stores can stock these from 28th May onward (not sure if limited supply, then direct order again, or permanent), currently limited to ordering 3 per blister/box due to global distribution limits. Everyone else can special order them, but not stock them.
3.) There will be no new metal models, these will be released as Finecast from now on, maybe as "limited supply", going to "direct only" after about 3 months. New Finecast models start in June (Dark Eldar and Tomb Kings). New models can exploit the new materials greater ability to show details.
4.) This will tear huge gaps in the miniature range, as essential HQs and elites of certain armies are not readily available in many stores, armies without a plastic HQ always require a special order from GW to field a legal army. Customers are asked to convert an HQ from plastic boxes.
Don't kill the messenger. I don't like it either.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
I wonder if GW will get their quality as good as the companies who have been producing finely cast figures in resin for years.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Games Workshop wrote:"There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world..."
I love the smell of hubris in the morning...
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Just wait for next month's Finecast release to prove their global superiority:
4335
Post by: whoadirty
Kroothawk wrote:Here a summary of how I think the future of the miniature range is planned by GW:
1.) This week, all GW stores send their metal metal miniatures, including blisters, boxes and hybrid kits, back to GW central to be sold as direct only. Non-GW stores don't have the option to send them back. Only stores that can get mail order only things (called Premium stores from now on) can get metal miniatures from now on.
2.) The most important current metal miniatures are recast in Finecast. GW stores and Premium stores can stock these from 28th May onward (not sure if limited supply, then direct order again, or permanent), currently limited to ordering 3 per blister/kit due to global distribution limits. Everyone else can special order them, but not stock them.
3.) There will be no new metal models, these will be released as Finecast from now on, maybe as "limited supply", going to "direct only" after about 3 months. New Finecast models start in June (Dark Eldar and Tomb Kings). New models can exploit the new materials greater ability to show details.
4.) This will tear huge gaps in the miniature range, as essential HQs and elites of certain armies are not readily available in many stores, armies without a plastic HQ always require a special order from GW to field a legal army. Customers are asked to convert an HQ from plastic boxes.
Don't kill the messenger. I don't like it either.
This is better set out in writing than what I attempted to do above. As an added bonus, discounters (of both online and LGS variety) lose a ton of business and the customer is forced to try and get it from GWs website.
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
MY GOD.
The Lictor finally got more expensive than what it was in 2nd edition.
By 50p.
958
Post by: mikhaila
tgf wrote:I post this once before and got accused of trolling, so I went to my LGS and talked to the owner and he allowed me to read the letter from GW. Finecast mini's will not be stocked in the US for the forseeable future. They will be special order only and stores are only allowed to order 3 of any finecast model at a time. In addition to that there was a warning about trying to circumvent the system. Finecast will be in very limited supply in the US.[/quote]
Well, your other post was significantly different than what you put up here. Also incorrect, and drama laden.
This one: I have been reading that GW is not only dropping the metal models but in addition to that they will not sell the plasti-resin replacements in the US or Austrilia. So 2/3 of the models will have to be purchased on expensive secondary markets. So the accusation of trolling wasn't too far off.
In your second post, (at the top), I put what you're correct about in bold, and what you're wrong about in italics.
-Currently finecast will be in short supply, with large monthly restocks into the US.
-FLGS with GW accounts can order through trade sales at normal discount.
-Stores were asked to place orders for finecast for the 28th of May release.
-Partnership stores had some priority.
-Max amount we could order was 3, with some models in even shorter supply. Azhag was pretty limited.
-As stocks increase, we'll be able to get more, and if there are models left over after trade sales has gotten orders from all stores, we can ask for more. (Not likely on the first wave.)
-We cannot place special orders through the website to get more.
-There is not enough, at least initially, to allocate product to distributors. Stores without GW accounts will therefore not be able to get the new finecast models at this time.
Haven't seen them yet, my shipment is on the way. I'll be able to sell them on the 28th, but GW is making sure FLGS get them on time.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
H.B.M.C. wrote:Games Workshop wrote:"There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world..."
I love the smell of hubris in the morning...
There certainly aren't any Lammassus of that quality in resin anymore, not for, oooh, about a week.
I would stand Studio McVey up against GW any day..
http://www.studiomcvey.com/
42295
Post by: Slacker
Or Scibor. I love the quality of the stuff I've gotten from them.
15335
Post by: Spyder68
I'm glad its here..
No more.. oh my model fell over and the paint chipped after spending 6-8 hours painting it.
Alot easier to convert also.
22150
Post by: blood reaper
I like the look of the new Resin models but I'm starting to find it difficult to find independent retailers that have a good price.
33774
Post by: tgf
I think my original post was pretty close to, if finecast isn't on ebay may 29th for double retail prices I will be suprised. Its going to be limit supply high demand again, great secondary market LGS's getting screwed.
539
Post by: cygnnus
Mr. Burning wrote:Just read this on GW's website:
One thing you'll notice immediately when you pick them up is the exceptionally sharp detail on the model, which can only be described as staggering. For dedicated painters (which we all are to some extent) this is a dream come true.
If the original sculpt was soft how can finecast details be any sharper?
Just interested in how GW would get sharper detail off an existing sculpt (that metal failed to achieve). Or is the GW promoting the cap out of plastic being......the new plastic?
Metal shrinks as it cools, so some details get "softened" a bit. Moreover, even spin-cast metal still has some viscosity issues compared with some resins out there. Plastic molds can't be made with undercuts. All of which tends to mean that resin can take detail better than plastic or metal. That's why Studio McVey does some limited versions of their models in resin, for collectors and painters, and then "mass cast" metals with the slightly inferior detail.
Valete,
JohnS
958
Post by: mikhaila
tgf wrote:I think my original post was pretty close to, if finecast isn't on ebay may 29th for double retail prices I will be suprised. Its going to be limit supply high demand again, great secondary market LGS's getting screwed.
I think that your opinion is highly colored by the opinion of what your LGS is telling you. Personally, I'm not feeling too screwed at all. Do they not have a direct GW account or something? There was a lot of finecast models I didn't order because I already have the metal models in stock, or because the metal counterparts are slow as hell to sell. This isn't 120 new FW models, they've all been out before.
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Post by: Mr Nobody
I'm wondering if their metal models will be on sail if they're phasing them out.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Spyder68 wrote:I'm glad its here..
No more.. oh my model fell over and the paint chipped after spending 6-8 hours painting it.
Alot easier to convert also.
I've been playing wargames with metal figures since 1980 and I've never had that problem.
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Post by: Ajroo
Kilkrazy wrote:Spyder68 wrote:I'm glad its here..
No more.. oh my model fell over and the paint chipped after spending 6-8 hours painting it.
Alot easier to convert also.
I've been playing wargames with metal figures since 1980 and I've never had that problem.
You must be playing on dutch battlegrounds then!
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Post by: tgf
Kilkrazy wrote:Spyder68 wrote:I'm glad its here..
No more.. oh my model fell over and the paint chipped after spending 6-8 hours painting it.
Alot easier to convert also.
I've been playing wargames with metal figures since 1980 and I've never had that problem.
Agreed wash with soap and water, then prime before painting so the paint will actually stick. Automatically Appended Next Post: mikhaila wrote:tgf wrote:I think my original post was pretty close to, if finecast isn't on ebay may 29th for double retail prices I will be suprised. Its going to be limit supply high demand again, great secondary market LGS's getting screwed.
I think that your opinion is highly colored by the opinion of what your LGS is telling you. Personally, I'm not feeling too screwed at all. Do they not have a direct GW account or something? There was a lot of finecast models I didn't order because I already have the metal models in stock, or because the metal counterparts are slow as hell to sell. This isn't 120 new FW models, they've all been out before.
The only metals they have left are crappy ones like tombspiders and pyrovores, anything of value was long gone weeks ago. Tell you what on 6-3 we can check ebay and see who is nuts.
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Post by: Spyder68
Some of the tables are a bit rough, but nothing bad. no matter what ive done though ive had chipping issues with metal.
Usually using these steps.
Washed models with a little dawn.
Rinsed them very well. 1 day to dry.
Basecoat with P3 Primer. 1 full day dry.
Wash to ensure 100% coverage. 1 full day to dry.
Paint primary color 1 day to dry.
Paint rest of main colors. 1 day to dry.
Do details. 1 day to dry.
Clearcoat with almost no humidity and high quality model clearcoat 1 day dry.
Repeat above step.
2 weeks later, model gets bumped or falls off a bit of terrian and the cape is chipped.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Are you using Citadel paints and varnish?
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Post by: mikhaila
tgf wrote:mikhaila wrote:tgf wrote:I think my original post was pretty close to, if finecast isn't on ebay may 29th for double retail prices I will be suprised. Its going to be limit supply high demand again, great secondary market LGS's getting screwed.
I think that your opinion is highly colored by the opinion of what your LGS is telling you. Personally, I'm not feeling too screwed at all. Do they not have a direct GW account or something? There was a lot of finecast models I didn't order because I already have the metal models in stock, or because the metal counterparts are slow as hell to sell. This isn't 120 new FW models, they've all been out before.
The only metals they have left are crappy ones like tombspiders and pyrovores, anything of value was long gone weeks ago. Tell you what on 6-3 we can check ebay and see who is nuts.
I don't recall saying you'r nuts, and can't quite see how the price of models on ebay could make either of us so.
Did your store have much in the way of metals to start with? When you say 'gone weeks ago' it's a bit tough to believe since it was only weeks ago that we were asked to stop ordering a lot of metals. Even then, I've restocked a ton of stuff from Direct Sales, and the dozen or so distributors in the US that still had stock. I'm only half through my stock of metals at this point, although I'll grant that my supplies were large to start with.
And if your LGS sold through all it's metal, and now will have supplies of insanely fast resin models coming in, I'm sort of confused by how they are getting screwed. There's a bit of chaos in adjusting to the new system, but that's a common enough element in running a game store. Hell, just keeping up my stock on Warmahordes has me and two managers checking with distributors daily and ordering crazy on some models, since we don't know when we'll get another chance.
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Post by: Ouze
Kroothawk wrote:Just wait for next month's Finecast release to prove their global superiority:
In GWS's defense, man there are details on that model, that, like, you can't even see in metal. It's going to look totally sweet in resin Finecast.
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Post by: spaceelf
mikhaila wrote:tgf wrote:I think my original post was pretty close to, if finecast isn't on ebay may 29th for double retail prices I will be suprised. Its going to be limit supply high demand again, great secondary market LGS's getting screwed.
I think that your opinion is highly colored by the opinion of what your LGS is telling you. Personally, I'm not feeling too screwed at all. Do they not have a direct GW account or something? There was a lot of finecast models I didn't order because I already have the metal models in stock, or because the metal counterparts are slow as hell to sell. This isn't 120 new FW models, they've all been out before.
The only metals they have left are crappy ones like tombspiders and pyrovores, anything of value was long gone weeks ago. Tell you what on 6-3 we can check ebay and see who is nuts.
Around here there are local stores that still have 'desirable' metal models in stock. With all of the price increases I suspect that demand for GW stuff has decreased as a whole.
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Post by: tgf
They usually kept at least 1 or 2 of every model in stock and would obviously buy a bunch during the new release period. I went last week looking for jump pack chaplain and they told me they hadn't been able to order metal for weeks. Their peg board is now mostly white cards that say out of stock.
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Post by: RiTides
Not totally on-topic, but... I keep trying to find people who have actually seen a razorgor in person. The model is not that bad, it's that horrible bug / bulge-eyed paint job that they foolishly pictured it with.
I just don't like seeing that model get bashed more than it deserves. It's not stellar, but it's not terrible either, although the paint job makes it look pretty bad.
More on-topic: The GWs around here also have pretty bare metal sections, but only because they're waiting for the finecast stuff to come in... not really a big deal imho.
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Post by: mikhaila
RiTides wrote:Not totally on-topic, but... I keep trying to find people who have actually seen a razorgor in person. The model is not that bad, it's that horrible bug / bulge-eyed paint job that they foolishly pictured it with.
I just don't like seeing that model get bashed more than it deserves. It's not stellar, but it's not terrible either, although the paint job makes it look pretty bad.
Agreed. The minos were the same way. I've seen some very nice razorgor paint jobs, and several converted with a bit of green stuff that look outstanding.
More on topic: A fix for a wall fulll of cards that say 'out of stock', is to take down the cards, consolodate the space the models take up, order in a bunch of miniatures from Scribor, CMoN, Helldorado, Sodapop, and Gamezone. Fills the empty wall, and gives the FLGS more things to sell while you wait for GW to make more stuff.
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Post by: Spyder68
Kilkrazy wrote:Are you using Citadel paints and varnish?
Citadel Paints but using a different varnish. Trying to think of what its called the small cans thats in the model car section as it has never foged when using.
Paint chips off clear to bare metal.
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Post by: tgf
RiTides wrote:Not totally on-topic, but... I keep trying to find people who have actually seen a razorgor in person. The model is not that bad, it's that horrible bug / bulge-eyed paint job that they foolishly pictured it with.
I just don't like seeing that model get bashed more than it deserves. It's not stellar, but it's not terrible either, although the paint job makes it look pretty bad.
More on-topic: The GWs around here also have pretty bare metal sections, but only because they're waiting for the finecast stuff to come in... not really a big deal imho.
They did the same thing with the minotaurs, deep deep ugly inking that made them look cartoonish.
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Post by: kestral
If they are right about the joints being durable, that might sway me to buy one someday during my lifespan. Maybe. Assuming things break my way in retirement.
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Post by: johnscott10
I think myself, and many others, will more than likely be leaving the hobby pretty soon. The prices they are chargin are starting to get beyond a joke. Okay so the prices went up earlier this year but that wasnt due to GW that was solely coz of the  (insert own deletive) government increasing the VAT.
However after taking a few select models from the price list on the 1st page and comparing them to their current prices, some of the increases dont make sence. The nurgle greater daemon model remained the same price, yet other had an extra £4 or so added on! WTF
Now I wouldnt be too bothered if this had happened before I bought the IOB set coz not only was i enjoying fantasy but now I actually have to buy stuff to get a fairly decent army. Im one of these guys who starts and finishes something. So there goes a few ££ on models which I could be using for other means.
I swear GW are trying to scare of their only payin customers so that they can say that the business is over and leave with big fat pockets.
I will note however that I will still continue to show my face to play games and what not, but not actually buy anything unless these "Finecast" models are actually more detailed and worth the price raise which I highly doubt.
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Post by: whoadirty
mikhaila wrote:
More on topic: A fix for a wall fulll of cards that say 'out of stock', is to take down the cards, consolodate the space the models take up, order in a bunch of miniatures from Scribor, CMoN, Helldorado, Sodapop, and Gamezone. Fills the empty wall, and gives the FLGS more things to sell while you wait for GW to make more stuff.
Except that doesn't help the customer looking for the items that are out of stock.
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Post by: RiTides
They'll be back in stock in a week or so... not that long to wait!
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Post by: whoadirty
RiTides wrote:They'll be back in stock in a week or so... not that long to wait!
Sure, if I buy through GW. My local LGS was told there would be a delay on him being able to order them. Might not be until October. On one hand GW restricts Maelstrom because they aren't supporting the hobby, and on the other they make it so the non "Premier" accounts can't get in product. How do they support the hobby if they can't sell the customer product?
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Post by: RiTides
October sounds just a little bit crazy to me... I'd like to see if that's still the case in a few weeks.
Unless they don't have a GW account, and are looking at when distributors would get them... I really have no idea, just that they'll be pretty widely available in a week...
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Post by: Grabzak Dirtyfighter
I think that if these Finecast models look as nice as the pictures of the unpainted models that are about, They may actually be worth the money
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Post by: Smegmalicious
Mr Nobody wrote:I'm wondering if their metal models will be on sail if they're phasing them out.
1. Sale
2. They're recycling all the old metal
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Post by: Void_walker
I'm curious to see if anything from the Speciality Games section (Mordheim etc) get the "Finecast" treatment?
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Post by: NoseGoblin
At the last shareholders meeting, someone said they had a fiduciary obligation to the shareholders. What they heard was fu-dush-baggery obligation to their customers :-P
They went straight to work implementing the new directive....
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Post by: warpcrafter
Somebody take one of these new miniatures, undercoat and paint it then drop it onto a hard concrete floor from at least six feet. If it survives, then I will be convinced.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
Got a mail from GW with a sneak peek of Finecast models,featuring a model of each games
Gotta admit,that they look pretty good to me.
Even if the first pic that we had from the Skaven lord wasn't great(it was a grainy pic after all).
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Post by: Azazelx
Slayer le boucher wrote:Got a mail from GW with a sneak peek of Finecast models,featuring a model of each games
Gotta admit,that they look pretty good to me.
Even if the first pic that we had from the Skaven lord wasn't great(it was a grainy pic after all).
Ever seen what the McBurgers look like on the Price Board compared to what you end up with in your hand?
I don't think the contrast would be that bad, but of course they look good - these are their showcase demo photos to get you all excited for Resin.
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Post by: LuigiX
Notice that in the pictures with the email, the painted figures are not the same as the painted figs?
Small details; but on the Eldar, the sword blade is different and on the Chaos Warrior the skull around his neck & end of his belt are different. I'm betting the painted pics sare just old metal figs.
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Post by: RiTides
Oh, wow- good catch!
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Post by: Kanluwen
LuigiX wrote:Notice that in the pictures with the email, the painted figures are not the same as the painted figs?
Small details; but on the Eldar, the sword blade is different and on the Chaos Warrior the skull around his neck & end of his belt are different. I'm betting the painted pics are just old metal figs.
If you really want to get technical:
The sword blade is 'different' because the arm is posed differently. That's a pretty easy catch to make, because in the unpainted photo he's pointing it out at the camera in a kind of 'challenge' pose, while in the painted photo he looks to have his blade kind of in a 'postswing'.
His head's also at a different angle.
The Chaos Warrior skull part looks to be an optical illusion, using the reference points of his knee armor and his boots, they've been taken at noticeably different angles. Namely: the unpainted photo was taken at an angle to get in as much of the detail on the model, while the painted photo looks to have been taken head on.
Either that or they opted to get rid of part of the skull when transferring it to Finecast.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Bear in mind: I'm not saying it's not possible that it's the 'metal version' of the models.
But the rest of the details are a pretty good match on all cases. It might simply be that they had the unpainted ones mocked up by someone different than the one that was to be painted.
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Post by: johnscott10
Hmm given the look of the pics I may still buy some GW stuff just not as often or as big. Perhaps say a model or box per month istead of say 50 models worth per month.
Tbf I love the hobby and want to support it, I dont love it enough to be spending £50-100 a month on it though.
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
I have this sinking feeling that the Sisters of Battle Update will be, " OUR FIRST ALL RESIN ARMY" and will be fourty or fifty dollar a box for five Sisters, but " ALL RESIN, LULZ!"
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Post by: penek
Scull on the neck of chaos warrior is 100% not the same.. on painted mini its longer (almost twice as)
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Post by: Dice Monkey
i find it humorous they choose 2 models that do not have a lot of detail to show off. If they want to wow us they should make something more like this.
Especially at the prices they are asking. I really don't want to see a recast of the 90's inspired Vardek Krom or Space Elf Birdman with extra maxi pad armor if they want me to buy.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Spyder68 wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:Are you using Citadel paints and varnish?
Citadel Paints but using a different varnish. Trying to think of what its called the small cans thats in the model car section as it has never foged when using.
Paint chips off clear to bare metal.
Humbrol.
You should try using more varnish. I always do a layer of gloss polyurethane followed by a layer of matt.
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Post by: Grim.Badger
Pewter (Painted)
Finecast (Unpainted)
For me, this illustrates what my biggest problem always was with the Pewter figures - the detail was always so "rounded" and soft edged!
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Post by: Smegmalicious
penek wrote:Scull on the neck of chaos warrior is 100% not the same.. on painted mini its longer (almost twice as)
Also his head is at a different angle. They're clearly different models, not before/after shots but who knows if they're both resin or not.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
If you look at the horse's rear armour, the middle strake has a slight dent on it. This can be seen on both models.
I would say it is cast from a mould taken from the same master.
The two pictures are taken from different angles and are different sizes, and one of them is painted, so it's difficult to make a very close comparison.
Assuming the top one is metal, I can't see why people are complaining that resin delivers less detail. The detail is just as good.
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Post by: Sidstyler
...they kinda look the same to me. Granted they haven't shown off a lot of models yet, but the ones we've seen haven't floored me like I was expecting them to...especially considering bold claims like:
"a new era in wargaming"
"the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen"
"the next step in the evolution in tabletop miniatures wargaming"
"There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world"
I mean seriously, that's a lot of bs, and so far they've failed to convince me. It's just a lot of hype and lies, they're trying way too hard to hide the fact that this is simply a cost-cutting measure and in justifying the increased cost.
Maybe I'll change my mind when they start showing off Dark Eldar models but as of now: GW is full of it.
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Post by: LuigiX
Kanluwen wrote:The sword blade is 'different' because the arm is posed differently. That's a pretty easy catch to make, because in the unpainted photo he's pointing it out at the camera in a kind of 'challenge' pose, while in the painted photo he looks to have his blade kind of in a 'postswing'.His head's also at a different angle.
Not talking about the angle of the sword; look at the back of the blade. On the unpainted, it's flat; on the painted, it is rounded
Kanluwen wrote:The Chaos Warrior skull part looks to be an optical illusion, using the reference points of his knee armor and his boots, they've been taken at noticeably different angles. Namely: the unpainted photo was taken at an angle to get in as much of the detail on the model, while the painted photo looks to have been taken head on.
Either that or they opted to get rid of part of the skull when transferring it to Finecast.
The skull is definitely different- look at the "snout" which exists on the painted version but not the unpainted. This isn't a matter of perspective but a different item. Same with the end of the belt- on is longer and rounded.
Again, these are very piddling details, but it's pretty shady that they're selling something as new & improved using pictures of the old product.
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Post by: MIKEtheMERCILESS
Folks,
Just been to my FLGS and after a chat with the manager who's been able to handle the Citadel Finecast models, can confirm the following:
1) The detail is indeed crisper and more defined
2) The resin is soft and bendable, great for customisation
3) It contains micropores which superglue will actually seep into, basically meaning that the join is the strongest part of the model
4) The material can be bent and re-postitioned by putting it into a bowl of warm/hot water and bending it there - easy solution to straighten bent swords, re-postioning arms etc.
If even half of these are true, then this is to me at least, a game changer...
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Post by: johnscott10
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:Folks,
Just been to my FLGS and after a chat with the manager who's been able to handle the Citadel Finecast models, can confirm the following:
1) The detail is indeed crisper and more defined
2) The resin is soft and bendable, great for customisation
3) It contains micropores which superglue will actually seep into, basically meaning that the join is the strongest part of the model
4) The material can be bent and re-postitioned by putting it into a bowl of warm/hot water and bending it there - easy solution to straighten bent swords, re-postioning arms etc.
If even half of these are true, then this is to me at least, a game changer...
Wow seems I may enjoy working with resin purely on the fact that joints are strong, no mare breaking a pistol off of Kharns arm lol.
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Post by: RiTides
The blood knight does look crisper to me than the painted (metal) version... is it possible they're trying to do comparison shots and just really, really not explaining it well?
I think that could be it...
Edit: Ah, no. Just checked the website and they have the painted pics labelled as Finecast. Erhm, yeah...
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Post by: Soulhunter
unique resin formula
Read: the resin is made so that our superglue actually can glue something
Read: Uniique we can charge more
but it's incredibly light too
OMG they have studied physics, sure its lighter, to make pewter models even heavier you'll have to add uranium.
main reasons for this change to resin was quality.
Read: Its cheaper, transport costs are by the weight.
you'll find over 100 new clampacks and boxed sets
Read: 101 and the one model you want is discontinued forever.
There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world
PP, maxmini, Fenryll, Microart studios, Forgeworld........
Conclusion
All GW those guys are saying is MORE EXPENSIVE (expect forgeworld prices ( They are using words like quality, unique, one of a kind, never seen before to soften the blow* )
( *must be one of those management classes which use words like empowered, transition, restructure, market driven etc. )
BTW.
Resin ages, after a while it will loose its sharp edges, and become brittle.
I'd rather inhale some pewter than resin dust.
Resin when dropped will break, if the resin is fllexible enough to bend it will hold no detail.
And those painted models do look pretty much like the original metal miniatures.
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Post by: Flashman
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:4) The material can be bent and re-postitioned by putting it into a bowl of warm/hot water and bending it there - easy solution to straighten bent swords, re-postioning arms etc.
I thought one of the advantages of resin was that spears, banner poles, lances etc wouldn't be bent in the first place.
More fail GW
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Post by: aka_mythos
LuigiX wrote: I'm betting the painted pics sare just old metal figs.
Often enough to get the miniatures painted in time for publicity shots, and because they look nicer, the models photographed are cast in resin rather than metal. So really reality is moving closer to a truthful representation.
Soulhunter wrote:unique resin formula
Read: the resin is made so that our superglue actually can glue something
Read: Uniique we can charge more
Actually what makes it unique is that it supposedly contains plastic powder mixed into the resin so that the plastic cement you use for your plastic minis will work with these... thus making them compatible with plastic bits.
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Post by: Cerebrium
I'm going to get some greenstuff, grind in some old sprues, and sell it as supergoodcast.
GUYS IT'S REALLY GREAT YOU SHOULD TOTALLY BUY IT PLEASE BUY IT
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Post by: KingCracker
You can tell the Eldar one is different minis as well. No Im not talking about the arms being in a different position. I figured, maybe the arm broke off or you can see in the unpainted one, theres a gap between the arm and body, so I figure if they were the same someone just fixed it.
BUT the telling sign here is, look at the feathers on its helm. On the right side of the head on unpainted, you see how SHARP the feathers are on the end at the bottom of the feather patch. Now look at the mini on the right....the feathers on the bottom are almost gloppy looping and smoothed on the edge
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Post by: Da Boss
Was the dust inhalation issue address anywhere? Sorry in the sea of lamentations I couldn't find it and my nephew is starting 40K, I'd like to give him some proper advice on that.
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Post by: Cerebrium
I remember seeing on their facebook last night that it's totally non-toxic and requires no special preparation.
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Post by: Da Boss
Thank you, sounds good. Wonder how they managed that- and how much R&D money went into developing the new material?
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Post by: Cerebrium
I like to think GW's R&D department is a bit like Q's lab in James Bond.
Except, to follow the James Bond analogy, they'd be the ones in the hollowed out volcano
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Post by: ChocolateGork
Soulhunter wrote:
All GW those guys are saying is MORE EXPENSIVE (expect forgeworld prices ( They are using words like quality, unique, one of a kind, never seen before to soften the blow* )
( *must be one of those management classes which use words like empowered, transition, restructure, market driven etc. )
SYNERGY...... TOMORROW........ AMERICA......
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Post by: Kilkrazy
RiTides wrote:The blood knight does look crisper to me than the painted (metal) version... is it possible they're trying to do comparison shots and just really, really not explaining it well?
I think that could be it...
Edit: Ah, no. Just checked the website and they have the painted pics labelled as Finecast. Erhm, yeah...
Several layers of primer, paint and varnish will tend to soften the detail on anything.
The detail you can see on a large blow-up macro photo of a 28mm model is lots more than you will notice on the game table.
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Post by: Inanimate
KingCracker wrote:You can tell the Eldar one is different minis as well. No Im not talking about the arms being in a different position. I figured, maybe the arm broke off or you can see in the unpainted one, theres a gap between the arm and body, so I figure if they were the same someone just fixed it.
BUT the telling sign here is, look at the feathers on its helm. On the right side of the head on unpainted, you see how SHARP the feathers are on the end at the bottom of the feather patch. Now look at the mini on the right....the feathers on the bottom are almost gloppy looping and smoothed on the edge
And the shuriken pistols are different as well.
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Post by: Big P
You do all realise that resin models have been around for ages yes?
Non-toxic resin polymer is used in alot of historical wargaming vehicles and model kits.
Its not new.
Old Crow have been using the plastic poylmer resin for a while.
It does cast well, very crisp. Still as fragile as all resin types though.
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Post by: Bullfrog
Interesting news. I for one won't mind the move to resin, I buy plenty of FW stuff so I like the idea of more detailed models as standard.
One question has not been answered though (or I've missed it); does this recall of metal models (and subsequent replacement with resin) extend to all boxed sets and models? I'm thinking of the Vostroyans in particular as I want some of them and will buy them now if they're going to be harder to get in the near future.
Also, I'm not terribly surprised that prices are going to go up, it would be good PR to have a flat year price wise but unpopular with the people who matter. That's the shareholders by the way, not customers. GW couldn't give a crap with you the individual do, you could boycott them, smash all your models and cut the eyes out of your Jervis posters for all they care. All they need to know is that the customer base is fairly steady, ie as many people start the hobby as leave it (for whatever reason). I find it a little hard to believe that a company that's been around for 20+ years would be so cavalier with their customer base.
The idea that the company is run for you is also somewhat laughable, just like a football club is NOT run for it's supporters, GW is not run for hobbyists. There are those who work within it that are keen hobbyists (at least I hope they are or they won't be enjoying all that weak lemon drink) but the whole shebang is run for profit.
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Post by: StarFyre
I hope this means an end to metal models...
Sanjay
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Post by: Kroothawk
1.) The advantages of crisper resin will only come out with new moulds made for the new material. We will see.
2.) The flexibility can be a problem, if it is more flexible than the layer of paint. Paint might easily chip off. Haven't tested it yet on a real finecast model, we will see.
3.) FW resin can also be bend back with warm water, but it has a memory effect and slowly goes back to the original position. We will see.
4.) GW said that the new material passed official security tests and passed as needing no special care (e.g. no dust mask recommended).
GW Facebook entry wrote:"Also, chaps, we've spotted the odd comment about the safety of the resin. As with all our products, this has been vigorously checked. There are currently many formulations of resin used across the world. The resin material we are using for Citadel Finecast models has undergone testing by a leading international toy safety testing agency. They identified no risks to health and recommend no special precautions."
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Post by: aka_mythos
Da Boss wrote:Thank you, sounds good. Wonder how they managed that- and how much R&D money went into developing the new material?
Probably not much... its common that resins allow you to add fillers. GW is just using plastic for its filler.
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Post by: Stella Cadente
Big P wrote:You do all realise that resin models have been around for ages yes?
Non-toxic resin polymer is used in alot of historical wargaming vehicles and model kits.
Its not new.
Old Crow have been using the plastic poylmer resin for a while.
It does cast well, very crisp. Still as fragile as all resin types though.
and its not expensive, though I bet the prices for these will still be 2-3x more than the metal versions since its GW prices and to them resin is worth more than gold.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Kroothawk wrote:1.) The advantages of crisper resin will only come out with new moulds made for the new material. We will see.
2.) The flexibility can be a problem, if it is more flexible than the layer of paint. Paint might easily chip off. Haven't tested it yet on a real finecast model, we will see.
3.) FW resin can also be bend back with warm water, but it has a memory effect and slowly goes back to the original position. We will see.
4.) GW said that the new material passed official security tests and passed as needing no special care (e.g. no dust mask recommended).
People can say what they like (or hate) about GW, there is no way that GW would use a toxic material in products for sale to 12-year-olds. I fully believe GW's claim that they had their material tested by an independent examiner.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Kilkrazy wrote:People can say what they like (or hate) about GW, there is no way that GW would use a toxic material in products for sale to 12-year-olds.
... other than paints from China
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Stella Cadente wrote:and its not expensive, though I bet the prices for these will still be 2-3x more than the metal versions since its GW prices and to them resin is worth more than gold.
I think these types of generalized statements ignore alot of the reality of their business. GW only end up with a 9.5% profit on its miniature games after they mark it up 400% from their cost of sales, the resoursces going into producing their products. Given that tin rose 60% from a year ago, even if we didn't want to kind to GW you're looking at a $.50 piece of white metal now costing GW $.80 and having to sell what was $2 for $3.20.
This change of materials, seem to me, was intended to keep GW's price increase from exceeding 20%. The increasing price of tin, meant either a 23%+ increase or a change of materials to keep it at only a ~15% increase, with improved properties. Given only those two choices, it seems obvious which is the lesser of two evils.
31331
Post by: Bullfrog
Yeah, the whole 'Price rise is evulz!!' knee-jerk reaction is a bit tiresome.
If the preliminary snaps of the new casts are anything to go by the product is getting better. Shock horror, the price is going to go up! It's price rise time anyway isn't it? As stated by Mythos you have to factor in so many other things that aren't obvious to the layman.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
But if too many "laymen" get pissed by the price hike, sales will drop again. As with every price hike in recent years. Total revenue is flat or declining for years.
759
Post by: dumbuket
Please forgive me if this has already been said, but do GW models even *have* the kind of fine detail that would benefit from this transition to resin?
Browsing over the different ranges, I'm not seeing to many models that aren't already so chunky and "heroic" that metal wouldn't be perfectly adequate. I do realize that it's a design decision in the sculpting, that there are other reasons for the metal to resin transition, and future sculpts may take advantage of the material (though I doubt this, the sculpting style is part of GW's 'thing'). Anyway, there's my reason for thinking that the whole "better detail/sharpness" thing is just empty hype.
I mean, just look at, say, an Infinity Haqq Hafza and tell me these finecast things have even half the detail.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Resin doesn't provide finer detail.
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Post by: catharsix
Since my Toxicity thread got locked:
Thanks to those who responded with the info I was looking for, but to the people who were kinda jerks about it: I DID go through this thread, GW's website, and numerous other sources. But finding info on the potential harmful effects was nigh impossible in the avalanche of negative comments and griping about GW (which i generally agree with). So don't be snarky at me just because 0.01% of the info on Finecast posted scattered across numerous threads and on GW's site was about its potential toxicity, and I have too much of a life in the real world to be able to devote the massive amount of time it would have taken to find that needle in the clusterfuzz of this internet haystack.
-C6
539
Post by: cygnnus
Kilkrazy wrote:Resin doesn't provide finer detail.
Huh? I think that's about the only point on which GW is potentially correct. Resin can take detail better than metal or plastic. The former is more viscous, even with spin-casting, than some resins and shrinks slightly as it cools. The latter cannot have any undercuts in the mold and, from what I've seen, still can't quite take as good of detail as resin.
Resin most certainly has the potential for providing more detail than metal or plastic.
Valete,
JohnS
31331
Post by: Bullfrog
Kroothawk wrote:But if too many "laymen" get pissed by the price hike, sales will drop again. As with every price hike in recent years. Total revenue is flat or declining for years.
I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the process but I'd imagine a flat margin/profit would be pretty attractive in the current climate, I certainly wish I had one.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
cygnnus wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:Resin doesn't provide finer detail.
Huh? I think that's about the only point on which GW is potentially correct. Resin can take detail better than metal or plastic. The former is more viscous, even with spin-casting, than some resins and shrinks slightly as it cools. The latter cannot have any undercuts in the mold and, from what I've seen, still can't quite take as good of detail as resin.
Resin most certainly has the potential for providing more detail than metal or plastic.
Valete,
JohnS
I have enough models in metal and resin to know that whatever the theoretical limit of the processes, it makes absolutely no practical difference for a 28mm wargame figure.
GW are handing people a line to offset the higher prices.
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Post by: StarFyre
Doesn't it matter if you plan a model in resin though?
Ie. Forgeworld Bloodthirster, Forgeworld Great Unclean One, Maelstrom's Chimeara, etc?
Sanjay
150
Post by: Soulhunter
Cerebrium wrote:I remember seeing on their facebook last night that it's totally non-toxic and requires no special preparation.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
Coaldust is 100 percent carbon, non toxic, Asbestos is a mineral which is non toxic.
Still people are dying from it
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Post by: Da Boss
I think GW would not be stupid enough to expose themselves to the type of litigation that would ensue if it was found that their resin dust was unsafe and they had proclaimed it was.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
StarFyre wrote:Doesn't it matter if you plan a model in resin though?
Ie. Forgeworld Bloodthirster, Forgeworld Great Unclean One, Maelstrom's Chimeara, etc?
Sanjay
Studio McVey models are planned in resin.
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Post by: StarFyre
Sorry, not familiar with Studio McVey...the only resin models I have are forgeworld large monsters, Maelstrom Chimera, painted kingdom death for a commission, and i have some other large resin collector models (ie. that 2 ft tall dragon by Mag Egos). Oh, also have Kraken collector models, JMD, and scibor which are resin.
Maybe use them as an example? From what I've seen there, the models are more finely detailed than any metal or plastic models I've seen, unless that's due the sculptors being better (granted, those models I have are my top 4 sculptors so maybe that is why )
Sanjay
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Post by: Kilkrazy
http://www.studiomcvey.com/
Look at the limited edition resin section. Most of them are 28mm.
http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/facciones/
The Infinity models are metal 28mm.
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Post by: baron deathnyx
I have noticed on the GW pics that the resin is on spruce. and yes FW bloodthirster is way better looking then the GW metal one. I aslo heard because GW now has the right to use resin that they will be releasing the titans. FW maybe going out of buiseness.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Slayer le boucher wrote:Got a mail from GW with a sneak peek of Finecast models,featuring a model of each games
Gotta admit,that they look pretty good to me.
Even if the first pic that we had from the Skaven lord wasn't great(it was a grainy pic after all).
True, the LOTR modles DO look better.
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Post by: kronk
baron deathnyx wrote:I have noticed on the GW pics that the resin is on spruce.
Sprues. Spruce is a tree.
baron deathnyx wrote:I aslo heard because GW now has the right to use resin that they will be releasing the titans. FW maybe going out of buiseness.
"Has the right to use?" This was never an issue of a legal right to use or not use resin.
FW is a seperate entity. GW going to resin changes nothing for Forge World.
I've heard rumors before about GW working on a plastic/Resin titan. That doesn't have anything to do with what's going on now, though.
31331
Post by: Bullfrog
Soulhunter wrote:Cerebrium wrote:I remember seeing on their facebook last night that it's totally non-toxic and requires no special preparation.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
Coaldust is 100 percent carbon, non toxic, Asbestos is a mineral which is non toxic.
Still people are dying from it
Da Boss wrote:I think GW would not be stupid enough to expose themselves to the type of litigation that would ensue if it was found that their resin dust was unsafe and they had proclaimed it was.
This. ^^^
A pair of trousers is 'Harmful to children' if you jam them into their mouths and hold their noses, even air can be fatal in the right circumstances. The whole resin is lethal thing is ridiculous anyway, you'd never get enough of it in the right particle size into the air while modelling to do yourself any harm. The reason why you have industrial face masks when working with it is because you're using industrial tools and unless you power sand all your models to dust with high grit paper as soon as you get them you're not going to do yourself any harm.
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Post by: baron deathnyx
Ok so that doesn't mean GW is taking over all resin production from FW? because when GW remade the bane blade and the stompa all plastic it sold more than FW ever sold. and with GW making models in resin I think just gives another one up on FW. I can just see it now that in the future GW will be releasing a plastic/ resin nurgle dreadnaught.
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Post by: Bullfrog
I think they'll stick to pretty much what they do now.
FW can still have it's niche of doing models for things in Imperial Armour books and more specialised/intricate versions of current models. For example it looks very much like many current GW metal models will simply be ported straight to resin (GW Avatar for example).
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Post by: temprus
GW rarely uses the same mini unpainted and painted in their pictures (the exampled Chaos Warrior has his head in a completely different angle besides the skull difference). If you look closely in many of their how to examples, you will see that each step sometimes has a different mini (sometimes it even has different parts). Also, GW loves to use photoshop (or whatever program they use). "Here, look at this whole army of 2 rhinos and two squads that Joe Smith has painted, but please, ignore the fact that the pictured squads are really just the same squad twice from different angles. Oh, we only painted 1 rhino too, please do not notice that either"
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Post by: Kilkrazy
The reason why the Baneblade and Stompa sold more in plastic than in FW resin is simple. They cost a lot less and they are awesome models.
FW do a nice Orca model for Tau which is almost £300.
If GW did a plastic kit, with some options to make it a gunship, put decent rules in the next Tau Federation codex, and priced it at £75, they would have to fight Tau players off with a gakky stick.
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Post by: StarFyre
RUMOUR: KILKRAZY ANNOUNCES TAU ORCA GUNSHIP IN NEXT TAU CODEX!!!!!
hehe
sorry, I just had too
So, I thought resin gave better detail since it allowed for much finer edges and undercuts, etc.
Example, look at the jaw (inside/teeth) on the FW bloodthirster, and the intestines (with the tiny fingers and hands on it) in the great unclean one.
Sanjay
43358
Post by: baron deathnyx
You are right Killkrazy FW does make awesome looking Tau crisses suites.
31331
Post by: Bullfrog
I can confirm that small details (like studs on armour, tiny gribbly monsters etc) seem to be more consistent on the resin models so it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that you can get more detail. It certainly won't shrink anything like metal when cooling/setting so you can tell much better what it's going to look like when it comes out of the mould.
40490
Post by: HAZZER
Guys read this on todays post for GW. Or here's the text and some pictures: GW wrote:Everywhere we go at Head Office, we're surrounded by passionate hobbyists who live and breathe the Games Workshop hobby. With the release of the new Citadel Finecast range only days away, we wanted to find out people's thoughts and feelings about the models. Which one would they paint first? So we gathered together several of the most fanatical hobbyists from around the business - sculptors, painters and writers - guys who spend most of their spare time (and often a good proportion of their work time) with Citadel Miniatures, and chucked them into a room full of Citadel Finecast Miniatures to see which one they would choose to paint and why.
After almost half an hour (it could be said that as a group we might, maybe, possibly, be a little bit indecisive), we had all made up our minds on the miniatures we wanted to paint. I went round and had a chat to everyone to find out why they chose the miniature they did. From left to right we are: Chris Peach from the Studio Hobby Team; Myself from the Web Team; Andrew Kenrick, the Editor of White Dwarf; Sculptor Aly Morrison; 'Eavy Metal painter Darren Latham and Event Co-ordinator Nick Bayton.
Darren Latham: I love the Ghazghkull Thraka miniature, which I think is one of the best models Brian Nelson has ever sculpted - I knew I had to paint him (Ghazghkull not Brian...) Part of what makes Ghazghkull cool is the huge suit of mega-armour he wears - all harsh lines and sharp edges, which have been made crisper and more accurate to the original sculpt.
In Finecast Ghazghkull loses a lot of weight, which means no more pinning either. As a painter, I like to just get on and paint a model and this will save me quite a bit of time. And, of course, if you knock him off a table, he's not going to fall apart or chip - a massive win for Finecast.
Chris Peach: After much chin stroking, I finally decided on the Commissar Lord. It was a real toss-up between him and Lelith Hesperax, both of which are awesome models. In the end it was this guy that won though, when it comes to a decision between Imperial Guard and Dark Eldar, the Guard win every time.
What I really like is how well the little details have come out on the model, from the medals to the sash on his waist and even the tiny Imperial Eagles. With such an accurate casting you really can see every little detail. He is going to be an absolute pleasure to paint. I know you were thinking of painting him too, Dan, but well, I found him first, so tough.
Andrew Kenrick: As (a very patient) Dan will attest, I took ages to decide on my first Citadel Finecast miniature, insisting on looking at every clampack in the store. I couldn't decide between Queek Headtaker (to lead my Skaven) or the Space Marine Chaplain with jump pack (to accompany my Flesh Tearers Assault Marines).
I eventually decided to follow the lead of my fellow White Dwarfer Andy Hall and pick the ferocious Skaven Warlord. I love all of the Skaven special characters, but Queek has to be my favourite - his pose is just so dynamic, and the detail on his armour, base and trophy rack is so crisp in Citadel Finecast. I can't wait to get my paintbrush out and paint him!
Nick Bayton: Like the other guys, I was really struggling to choose a model - they're just all so nice. Eventually I settled on Gûlavhar, the Terror of Arnor, as I'm a big fan of The Lord of the Rings and he's a model I've always wanted to paint - he's just such an imposing figure that sums up the whole idea of an ancient monstrous creature from Middle-earth.
I was always slightly scared of building Gûlavhar because of his huge wings but I've been assured that he will glue without pinning now, which is just brilliant news for people who want to get kits like this. What I really want to see is how well the swirls and patterns on his wings came out - they always looked good in metal so I bet they look amazing in resin.
Aly Morrison: I have a huge Undead army, yet I've never bought a Varghulf, so the decision on what model to paint was pretty easy for me. It's one of these bigger kits that I know will benefit from being made in Finecast Resin - it will stick together better and hold together better without any pinning or drilling. To be honest, it's laziness as much as anything else!
When we started experimenting with resin miniatures we knew that some areas like fur and hair would come out fantastically well, which was another reason for me choosing this miniature as he is pretty furry and I wanted to see how well he had cast. I'm going to run straight back to the Studio and cast my eye over it for a bit. I'll probably have it built by the end of the day [which he did - Dan].
Daniel Harden: The model I chose (after Chris Peach stole my first choice) was Count Mannfred, but then this chap caught my eye: the Empire Captain with hammer. I remember seeing this miniature when it first came out and I knew I had to have it, but it somehow slipped under my radar and I never picked it up. Seeing it on the shelf reminded me how much I'd always wanted the model.
What really stands out for me about this model is the character of the piece. At the same time the model is elegant, grizzled, smooth, beardy, war-ragged and flamboyant, making him the perfect commander for my fledgling Empire army. The new cast of the model has rendered him perfectly. It's just awesome, pure and simple.
So the next mission was to get them all painted. Aly ran from the scene with the Varghulf stuffed unsubtly under his jumper. He apparently had a meeting to go to, but we all knew he was off to start building his new model. Chris Peach pegged it too and hid in the Studio with his kit, growling menacingly at anyone that got too close. The rest of us took a rather more relaxed approach to the whole affair and left in good order with our first Citadel Finecast miniature. Check back later in the week to see how we got on with painting them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Dan on Tuesday, 24 May
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
They look exactly the same, IMO.
They use abaddon as an example, but in actuality, his 'official' paintjob is just garbage (probably has something to do with him being like 15 years old, maybe?), and the only reason he looks good is because they gave him a new one. There's no way to get more detail out of old molds except by resculpting them.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
I want that t-shirt. I want it now
It would go beautifully with my "Jawesome!" and other shark humor related shirts.
God the Varghulf. Hate that model.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
HAZZER wrote:Guys read this on todays post for GW.
Or here's the text and some pictures:
GW wrote:Everywhere we go at Head Office, we're surrounded by passionate hobbyists who live and breathe the Games Workshop hobby. With the release of the new Citadel Finecast range only days away, we wanted to find out people's thoughts and feelings about the models. Which one would they paint first? So we gathered together several of the most fanatical hobbyists from around the business - sculptors, painters and writers - guys who spend most of their spare time (and often a good proportion of their work time) with Citadel Miniatures, and chucked them into a room full of Citadel Finecast Miniatures to see which one they would choose to paint and why.
After almost half an hour (it could be said that as a group we might, maybe, possibly, be a little bit indecisive), we had all made up our minds on the miniatures we wanted to paint. I went round and had a chat to everyone to find out why they chose the miniature they did. From left to right we are: Chris Peach from the Studio Hobby Team; Myself from the Web Team; Andrew Kenrick, the Editor of White Dwarf; Sculptor Aly Morrison; 'Eavy Metal painter Darren Latham and Event Co-ordinator Nick Bayton.
Darren Latham: I love the Ghazghkull Thraka miniature, which I think is one of the best models Brian Nelson has ever sculpted - I knew I had to paint him (Ghazghkull not Brian...) Part of what makes Ghazghkull cool is the huge suit of mega-armour he wears - all harsh lines and sharp edges, which have been made crisper and more accurate to the original sculpt.
In Finecast Ghazghkull loses a lot of weight, which means no more pinning either. As a painter, I like to just get on and paint a model and this will save me quite a bit of time. And, of course, if you knock him off a table, he's not going to fall apart or chip - a massive win for Finecast.
Chris Peach: After much chin stroking, I finally decided on the Commissar Lord. It was a real toss-up between him and Lelith Hesperax, both of which are awesome models. In the end it was this guy that won though, when it comes to a decision between Imperial Guard and Dark Eldar, the Guard win every time.
What I really like is how well the little details have come out on the model, from the medals to the sash on his waist and even the tiny Imperial Eagles. With such an accurate casting you really can see every little detail. He is going to be an absolute pleasure to paint. I know you were thinking of painting him too, Dan, but well, I found him first, so tough.
Andrew Kenrick: As (a very patient) Dan will attest, I took ages to decide on my first Citadel Finecast miniature, insisting on looking at every clampack in the store. I couldn't decide between Queek Headtaker (to lead my Skaven) or the Space Marine Chaplain with jump pack (to accompany my Flesh Tearers Assault Marines).
I eventually decided to follow the lead of my fellow White Dwarfer Andy Hall and pick the ferocious Skaven Warlord. I love all of the Skaven special characters, but Queek has to be my favourite - his pose is just so dynamic, and the detail on his armour, base and trophy rack is so crisp in Citadel Finecast. I can't wait to get my paintbrush out and paint him!
Nick Bayton: Like the other guys, I was really struggling to choose a model - they're just all so nice. Eventually I settled on Gûlavhar, the Terror of Arnor, as I'm a big fan of The Lord of the Rings and he's a model I've always wanted to paint - he's just such an imposing figure that sums up the whole idea of an ancient monstrous creature from Middle-earth.
I was always slightly scared of building Gûlavhar because of his huge wings but I've been assured that he will glue without pinning now, which is just brilliant news for people who want to get kits like this. What I really want to see is how well the swirls and patterns on his wings came out - they always looked good in metal so I bet they look amazing in resin.
Aly Morrison: I have a huge Undead army, yet I've never bought a Varghulf, so the decision on what model to paint was pretty easy for me. It's one of these bigger kits that I know will benefit from being made in Finecast Resin - it will stick together better and hold together better without any pinning or drilling. To be honest, it's laziness as much as anything else!
When we started experimenting with resin miniatures we knew that some areas like fur and hair would come out fantastically well, which was another reason for me choosing this miniature as he is pretty furry and I wanted to see how well he had cast. I'm going to run straight back to the Studio and cast my eye over it for a bit. I'll probably have it built by the end of the day [which he did - Dan].
Daniel Harden: The model I chose (after Chris Peach stole my first choice) was Count Mannfred, but then this chap caught my eye: the Empire Captain with hammer. I remember seeing this miniature when it first came out and I knew I had to have it, but it somehow slipped under my radar and I never picked it up. Seeing it on the shelf reminded me how much I'd always wanted the model.
What really stands out for me about this model is the character of the piece. At the same time the model is elegant, grizzled, smooth, beardy, war-ragged and flamboyant, making him the perfect commander for my fledgling Empire army. The new cast of the model has rendered him perfectly. It's just awesome, pure and simple.
So the next mission was to get them all painted. Aly ran from the scene with the Varghulf stuffed unsubtly under his jumper. He apparently had a meeting to go to, but we all knew he was off to start building his new model. Chris Peach pegged it too and hid in the Studio with his kit, growling menacingly at anyone that got too close. The rest of us took a rather more relaxed approach to the whole affair and left in good order with our first Citadel Finecast miniature. Check back later in the week to see how we got on with painting them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Dan on Tuesday, 24 May
I am not 100% convinced that the people chosen for that advert are completely unbiased.
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
Hm, in resin you can't chuck Ghazgkhull through a window or at your opponent's head. Well you *could*, but Ghaz would break instead of the window.
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
Noisy_Marine wrote:Hm, in resin you can't chuck Ghazgkhull through a window or at your opponent's head. Well you *could*, but Ghaz would break instead of the window.
Exactly! Same with the chaos dreadnought
722
Post by: Kanluwen
If you really think the metal versions of the Chaos Dread/Ghaz, which in many cases break when dropped from table height to the base of the table would break a window--you're sadly deluded
32867
Post by: johnscott10
Noisy_Marine wrote:Hm, in resin you can't chuck Ghazgkhull through a window or at your opponent's head. Well you *could*, but Ghaz would break instead of the window.
Why you would want to throw something costing currently £20 at a window or somethin is beyond me. Its a case of "woohoo! I got a £20 to try form back to normal and re/paint. Oh and im also being sued for damages for breaking a window! I just love givin gw even more reasons to take my money".
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
johnscott10 wrote:
Why you would want to throw something costing currently £20 at a window or somethin is beyond me. Its a case of "woohoo! I got a £20 to try form back to normal and re/paint. Oh and im also being sued for damages for breaking a window! I just love givin gw even more reasons to take my money".
I won't tell you the story of me, the 5th edition Slann Mage Priest and the second floor window then.
Or the 2nd edition Tyranid Gargoyle.
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
johnscott10 wrote:Noisy_Marine wrote:Hm, in resin you can't chuck Ghazgkhull through a window or at your opponent's head. Well you *could*, but Ghaz would break instead of the window.
Why you would want to throw something costing currently £20 at a window or somethin is beyond me. Its a case of "woohoo! I got a £20 to try form back to normal and re/paint. Oh and im also being sued for damages for breaking a window! I just love givin gw even more reasons to take my money".
I'm just saying, it could be useful in an emergency situation, or something.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Kanluwen wrote:If you really think the metal versions of the Chaos Dread/Ghaz, which in many cases break when dropped from table height to the base of the table would break a window--you're sadly deluded
You just gotta throw it harder.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Bullfrog wrote:Kroothawk wrote:But if too many "laymen" get pissed by the price hike, sales will drop again. As with every price hike in recent years. Total revenue is flat or declining for years.
I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the process but I'd imagine a flat margin/profit would be pretty attractive in the current climate, I certainly wish I had one.
Considering a 10% price increase per year, this translates into 10% less goods sold per year. For 5 years. No company can survive that very long.
baron deathnyx wrote:Ok so that doesn't mean GW is taking over all resin production from FW? because when GW remade the bane blade and the stompa all plastic it sold more than FW ever sold. and with GW making models in resin I think just gives another one up on FW. I can just see it now that in the future GW will be releasing a plastic/ resin nurgle dreadnaught.
You are aware that Forge World is a division of GW, right? That GW Finecast is a different material than FW resin? That FW uses different moulds and only makes small runs? That GW selling more Baneblades may have to do with it costing only a fraction and being readily available in hundreds of stores?
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Post by: baron deathnyx
I'm still waiting to see how Asdrubael vect will be recast in resin.
17260
Post by: Grim.Badger
Samus_aran115 wrote:There's no way to get more detail out of old molds except by resculpting them.
The case is that the resin flows into intricate detail better - different liquids flow into small spaces differently, for example a high lead pewter will flow better than a low lead pewter, but will be softer; metal alloys also have stronger inter-molecular bonding than plastics and resins which acts in a similar way to water surface tension and stops the metal from flowing into very fine detail [a mix of Degree level metalurgy and A-level Chemistry - apologies if it's not quite right).
This probably wont make a huge difference to models that were designed for pewter - although edges should be sharper and better defined - but new models designed to be cast in finecast/resin can/will really show the difference.
33700
Post by: bloodaxegit
Looks great, but another reason for the tiresome trolls to start moaning about the details. And I HATE wargamers who troll about GW.
22756
Post by: knighthaunter
Noisy_Marine wrote:Hm, in resin you can't chuck Ghazgkhull through a window or at your opponent's head. Well you *could*, but Ghaz would break instead of the window.
one of my sons friends had his younger bro throw his at him and it stuck in the wall like an orky ninja star.
18474
Post by: Darth Bob
Well. I for one am not going to jump on the "let's hate on GW because price raises are bad" bandwagon because I know that a good chunk of you would be doing nothing but drooling over these models were there no price raises. It doesn't really matter what GW was releasing, because I'm sure whatever was being released (be it new Necrons or a fething Squat army) would suffer the same criticism fueled by anger at price-raises. I'm not trying to be an apologist for GW but fantastic claims like "They're trying to poison the young ones" and "They're shutting down FW" are unconstructive and silly. GW is raising prices again. It's tough to accept; I know, I'm bitter about it too. But there's nothing anyone can do about it. So either stop buying GW products or stop complaining, because, frankly, it's getting a bit tiresome seeing people raging about GW's prices in the News & Rumors section then going to their plog with the newly painted Tactical Squad they just bought.
Just saying.
Anyways, I think the jump from metal to resin is a good one, and I welcome it with open arms. Note that they said they're going to be showing the painted models that the hobbyists in the articles recieved later this week, so I think then we can get a true taste of what a Finecast model looks like painted in comparison to their metal couterparts.
99
Post by: insaniak
Grim.Badger wrote:Samus_aran115 wrote:There's no way to get more detail out of old molds except by resculpting them.
The case is that the resin flows into intricate detail better - different liquids flow into small spaces differently, for example a high lead pewter will flow better than a low lead pewter, but will be softer; metal alloys also have stronger inter-molecular bonding than plastics and resins which acts in a similar way to water surface tension and stops the metal from flowing into very fine detail [a mix of Degree level metalurgy and A-level Chemistry - apologies if it's not quite right).
The metal also shrinks as it cools, which results in a slight loss of detail. Some resins shrink as well, some don't.
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Post by: phantommaster
reds8n wrote:http://www.giftsforgeeks.org. uk/blog/
So no Saint Celestine. Want to buy one mow then.
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Post by: Dannis
The one that strikes me though, why would they show the old casts with 'Fine Cast' title underneath it? Please... please don't advertise new stuff with old models ffs...
Cheap GW... very cheap!
Whats new today vargulf pic:
Frontbox cover Vargulf:
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Post by: insaniak
Dannis wrote:The one that strikes me though, why would they show the old casts with 'Fine Cast' title underneath it? Please... please don't advertise new stuff with old models ffs...
Unless, of course, the studio models have been resin for a while now... It wouldn't be the first time they've used resin prototypes in place of the actual models (coughBattlescapecough)...
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Post by: Eilif
Saw the pics. The figs look good. In my opinion, GW doesn't tend to make bad models. The Empire Captain with hammer looks like a really nice figure to paint up, and I don't even collect WHFB. So I checked the price. How is a single, small figure on foot priced over 13 bucks! And he'll probably cost more in finecast! That's about double what most other brands charge for a similar figure.
Not worth the current price, and not worth the new-and-upgraded prices.
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Post by: Foo
Darth Bob wrote:Well. I for one am not going to jump on the "let's hate on GW because price raises are bad" bandwagon because I know that a good chunk of you would be doing nothing but drooling over these models were there no price raises.
...isn't that the point people are making? The price increase is a kick in the pants, even if the models look cool?
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