Swabby wrote: This conversation has taken a turn I never anticipated. I just wanted to chime in and say that goth clubs and vampire the masquerade also ended my gaming groups involvement in palladium games.
Eventually it was all club nights, girls, and the occasional cyberpunk 2020 session but that is more or less how RPG culture died in my life.
It has a bit of a tie-in of the zombie-state of Palladium Books.
I think I still have my pile of Cyberpunk 2020 complete.
Man I loved the supplements of the books like "When Gravity Fails" and "Hard Wired".
Kev always had to recreate / copy the wheel, while others license or at least collaborate.
Luckily the vampire/cyberpunk look was a natural transition which still seems to be the look for clubbing in general.
I think this was the time when North America media caught up with some dark topics that Japanese Anime was always able to dip into.
Robotech had heroes die, complex relationships (oh boy they are good at making it too complex...), manic evil characters, bad guys that can become good guys (gasp!) it was all good for that time.
Robotech will have a soft spot for many because it was able to show us more than a binary view of the world that picket fence North America tends to prefer.
Well... it's past midnight, and no Tuesday Update.
Wonder if he's scrambling to have something to say, or if he's finally realized just what kind of bill of goods Kevin sold him when he took over the role of "public relations punching bag".
Cause it's pretty clear he was never in a position to succeed.
Talizvar -- I think you touch on some of what makes Robotech enduring for fans, why as an adult I can still watch it and get some enjoyment out of it besides nostalgia.
n815e wrote: Talizvar -- I think you touch on some of what makes Robotech enduring for fans, why as an adult I can still watch it and get some enjoyment out of it besides nostalgia.
Thanks.
I think I was not sure of my reasons for liking the show up until I wrote that down.
I think that is why I check on anime on occasion, it can be terribly surprising how good they can be.
I pointed my sons to "Fairy Tail" (Fearī Teiru) series and see them looking harder at the relationships involved.
I will see if they can watch Robotech, at least we can blast through those long start of show scenes.
Given the competency of these numbnutz, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that's the excuse.
"Thirteen is an unlucky number, and so I didn't want to post an Update with that number, so I held off until the fourteenth one was due!".
Of course, the 14th Update given the current scheduling is the day after Christmas, and well... gotta have family time. And to be fair, I will concede that point. In which case they could do an Update BEFORE it's due, last thing on the 22nd, given that nothing is likely to happen between the Friday and the Tuesday, with Monday being Christmas.
So, at best I'm expecting no more than one Update between now and EOY. And I'd just like to remind people that in his introductory address, Scott considered end of year to be an achievable, though not expected, completion of Wave 2. How's it looking for your credibility there, Scotty? Cause from the Backer's perspective, it doesn't fething look like it was ever gonna be close.
Perhaps, as someone else posted, they are holding off on news waiting for Kevin's big year-end update. PB is going to be so active in 2018! They feel energized and the excitement in the office is palpable. 2018 is going to be THE YEAR for RRT and Kevin is going to do at least one new Murmur per week, sometimes more! They have no less than 6 books lined up for first quarter and everyone is going to love them.
Or perhaps Robotech's license is up for renewal and HG is putting its foot down.
Or perhaps Scott resigned and they don't know what to do with themselves (like in the 6 weeks after the KS ended and ND said goodbye).
Or they are so busy processing all the surprise package orders that they forgot to send an update.
Or they were spending so much time playing Star Wars with Kevin's action figures in anticipation of today that they couldn't do anything else.
Why ruiz the holiday buzz by communicating with RRT customers?
They are doing a SERVICE by not giving us anything to be angry about for the holiday season.
Very considerate of them.
Well, I am about 98% done with them.
It is a bit like watching a car crash to see what they will do next to drum up funds.
We get that question of why bother to continue the griping? This is like the show Cheers (where everyone knows your name...), we know each other and share a common "bond".
Ctaylor wrote: Maybe he finally asked Kevin where the money was?
If Kevin is as inconsistent and overpromising with the payroll as he is with the book schedule, that might explain if Scott has walked away. And according to some reports, Kevin is.
It's hard to tell from the recent posts on PB's FB page (essentially six straight adverts for CGB's) if those are Scott, or someone at PBHQ are responsible, though there has been a comparatively large number of relatively friendly interactions by the PB account with customers, and that's simply not PB's style, even after they managed to purge most of the reprobates.
So it's hard to say. It is clear that no-one at PBHQ is giving even a token damn about RRT until well into the new year, and Kevin continuing to over-promise (two books and a Rifter due in the next 4 weeks, another two books in the 4 weeks after that, and a fifth in the 4 weeks after that). So 5 books (and a Rifter) by the end of March. Get fethed. Then it's on to the POH (while still working on most, if not all of those books). Which will lead them into Convention Season, and soon it's GenCon, and well... that puts them out of sorts for three weeks, then it's apparently EU Convention season, and that leads into manufacturers being too busy to deal with PB for RRT, and then we're back to Halloween (Kevin's favorite), Thanksgiving, and back to Christmas Grab Bag season, and we're here this time next year, in pretty much the same position.
At least Scott has finally done something required by his job : listening to the customers and then he decided to disembark from this sinking boat.
I wish it was that simple but, honestly, he should consider it.
The sad truth is he was hired as a business manager / Social manager. His job was to improve flow of product, take over RTT and get it back on track, plus improve palladium's face with the community.
With at least 12 updates under Scott's belt (6 months) I can say only thing he has worked on is bases and organization charts.. They look as if only worked on each for a few hours on both in that amount of time.
So has Scott improved production flow?? .. Nope that is still handled by Kevin and still handled like always of what ever he wants to work on that day..
Is RTT back on track ?? Nope.. Still the train wreak dumpster fire its been the past few years..
Has the community feel better about the company as a whole. ?? Nope.. You can read their face book page and its either vial hatred or fan friends.. nothing in between.
If GW can pull their butt out of the fire and improve this .. anyone can.. you don't need to hire anyone.. just listen to your customers and try to move that direction..
But you also have people that has already paid you money for a product and don't seem it is that important.. they would rather work on things that are not asked for.. How is that sound logic??
A manufacturing update..
And new flunky at the keyboard
On the third update, Scott gave to us...
Three new quotes...
A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
On the fourth update, Scott gave to us...
A plea for shipping updates...
Three new quotes, A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
On the fifth update, Scott gave to us
A Gencon game! ..
A plea for shipping updates, three new quotes, A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
On the sixth update, Scott gave to us
Several SDF bases...
A Gencon game! ..A plea for shipping updates, three new quotes, A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
On the seventh update, Scott gave to us
A promised talk with manufacturers...
Several SDF bases, a Gencon game! ..A plea for shipping updates, three new quotes, A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
On the eighth update, Scott gave to us
Three objective set one renders...
A promised talk with manufacturers, several SDF bases, a Gencon game! ..A plea for shipping updates, three new quotes, A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
On the ninth update, Scott gave to us
Nineteen force org charts...
Three objective set one renders, A promised talk with manufacturers, several SDF bases, a Gencon game! ..A plea for shipping updates, three new quotes, A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
On the tenth update, Scott gave to us
A quick check in...
Nineteen force org charts,Three objective set one renders, A promised talk with manufacturers, several SDF bases, a Gencon game! ..A plea for shipping updates, three new quotes, A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
On the eleventh update, Scott gave to us
A correction to the Force Org feedback e-mail address...
A quick check in, Nineteen force org charts,Three objective set one renders, A promised talk with manufacturers, several SDF bases, a Gencon game! ..A plea for shipping updates, three new quotes, A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
On the twelfth (and final) update, Scott gave to us
New SDF base renders, A correction to the Force Org feedback e-mail address, A quick check in, Nineteen force org charts,Three objective set one renders, A promised talk with manufacturers, several SDF bases, a Gencon game! ..A plea for shipping updates, three new quotes, A manufacturing update and a new flunky at the keyboard
I'm really impressed by Shapeways quality printing (they are also fast for delivery). I've just received my LACV and MBT.
I have painted them with only a base coat, done a light dry brushing and the result is here (destroids for scale).
princecorg wrote: At least Scott has finally done something required by his job : listening to the customers and then he decided to disembark from this sinking boat.
I wish it was that simple but, honestly, he should consider it.
I hunted Scott down and emailed him the first time I heard about him coming on. It was really easy since if you have one PB email you can figure them all out. I did my best to let him know exactly what kind of mess he was getting into.
There should be no excuses on knowing what kind of a mess Kevin has made of RRT.
Mike1975 wrote: I hunted Scott down and emailed him the first time I heard about him coming on. It was really easy since if you have one PB email you can figure them all out.
This isn't exactly uncommon. Just about anyone could do it with my corporation as well, barring a few edge cases with really similar or identical names. Example, there's a "Miller/Millar" situation that has caught me a few times over the years.
Though our staff (on a corporate/multi-property scale) is several orders of magnitude larger than PB's.
So... they're now over a week past their own self-selected deadline for releasing an Update. Honestly kind of surprised that they've blown it off without an excuse of some kind.
And it's not like they've been silent. Since the Update was due, there has been a new post on average every day (two last Wednesday, none Sunday), including at least one response (of the most meaningless kind, "Happy you liked your Grab Bag!"), and the last post was uploaded about 5:30pm local time on Tuesday.
So it's not like PB are staying offline. They're just back to ignoring backers again.
The question then becomes, has Scott been punted, quit, or embraced company policy completely? And when will we find out the answer, and what the "future" of Robotech is, for next year.
Because every post in comment is "where is the money Scott??" and I am sure his email is full of the same..
After seeing some of the home brew models, it really does make me sad of what could have been with this game..
I don't thing it would be a 40k level but a game being played regularly at game stores..
Also, you have to look at what was released in the past years for it... nothing.. so how do you consider that support.??
I know they did a few random things on drive thru rpg site... but nothing close to get people interested again..
Even if we do get a update, it will be more of the same...paragraphs of nothing said and pictures of stuff we saw years ago..
The question then becomes, has Scott been punted, quit, or embraced company policy completely? And when will we find out the answer, and what the "future" of Robotech is, for next year.
After the last two updates from him, I suspect he’d seen the writing on the wall and had been (quietly) seeking employment elsewhere. I’d be willing to bet he’s cut the ties with PB entirely, but we’ll see.
Stormonu wrote: After the last two updates from him, I suspect he’d seen the writing on the wall and had been (quietly) seeking employment elsewhere. I’d be willing to bet he’s cut the ties with PB entirely, but we’ll see.
I hope that's the case; the more people who can escape from this mess the better.
It is odd, despite the "bitterness" I too would be happy if Scott moved on out of some regard for another human being.
The less people under the influence of Kevin, the better the world is.
KTG17 wrote: omg we're still talking about this dumb game. love it.
Weren't you warned last time you stopped by to crap on the thread with your faux poll on pg. 336? Filtering the thread on your responses shows a four year long string of you being surprised that people still being screwed over are still talking about it (with a healthy dose of inherent ridicule) while and prentending to not know why despite multiple explanations of the obvious. You'd think the novelty would have worn off by now after four years of posting your apparent surprise unless you're a troll who purposely just comes by to poke the hornet's nest...
So, not to get hopes up or anything, but isn't complete silence from the company over the line into "project failed" territory? I know Kickstarter probably won't do much since they got their cut, but this seems like pretty strong evidence that PB isn't doing anything to fulfill the KS.
ScarletRose wrote: So, not to get hopes up or anything, but isn't complete silence from the company over the line into "project failed" territory? I know Kickstarter probably won't do much since they got their cut, but this seems like pretty strong evidence that PB isn't doing anything to fulfill the KS.
Not really. It's basically a circular process.
-> 1) Palladium reluctantly release an Update, or a series of Updates. The contents of which are irrelevant (and often meaningless).
| . 2) Palladium goes silent for an extended period of time.
| . 3) Backers contact Kickstarter about the exact issue you raise.
|__4) Kickstarter contact Palladium and mention it's a problem.
Kickstarter have shown they don't give a damn, as long as PB put out something, therefore Kickstarter can say they're following the rules, and it's not their problem anymore. Given that Palladium haven't issued a revised date since I think late 2014, (no, 201X being the year for Palladium is not a revised date), and don't seem inclined to, means they can keep kicking the can indefinitely. Well.... not indefinitely anymore. I do like that they're now on the clock (March 2021), though they haven't addressed it. I wonder if they think they can renegotiate with the new (ie, old) license holders? Kevin's ego probably says yes.
Speaking of the new timeline, we're 3 years, 3 months from that point. I bring that up because we're now 3 years, 3 months since Wave 1 started shipping in earnest. We've literally hit the midway point, with no evidence that any real work has been done in almost three years.
Not sure if it counts as news but it appears that PB is up to their old tricks and have their fan friends trying to do the work for them. Peter Pidrak is going on about working on things for Palladium for RRT over on Mikes facebook page.
My guess is development under the guise of playtesting, much like what was done to Mike and Jaymz.
KTG17 wrote: omg we're still talking about this dumb game. love it.
Weren't you warned last time you stopped by to crap on the thread with your faux poll on pg. 336? Filtering the thread on your responses shows a four year long string of you being surprised that people still being screwed over are still talking about it (with a healthy dose of inherent ridicule) while and prentending to not know why despite multiple explanations of the obvious. You'd think the novelty would have worn off by now after four years of posting your apparent surprise unless you're a troll who purposely just comes by to poke the hornet's nest...
There is a guy that posts on PB's FB page, always defending PB.
Every year, after PB's promising that the coming year is absolutely the one they will release the second wave, this guy shows up to tell complainers that they should read the update and stop complaining because Kevin said it is coming Soon™. Every year.
ScarletRose wrote: So, not to get hopes up or anything, but isn't complete silence from the company over the line into "project failed" territory? I know Kickstarter probably won't do much since they got their cut, but this seems like pretty strong evidence that PB isn't doing anything to fulfill the KS.
The clowns running Shadows Of Brimstone (2nd worst Kickstarter I've dealt with) typically go two to three months between updates.
KTG17 wrote: omg we're still talking about this dumb game. love it.
Weren't you warned last time you stopped by to crap on the thread with your faux poll on pg. 336? Filtering the thread on your responses shows a four year long string of you being surprised that people still being screwed over are still talking about it (with a healthy dose of inherent ridicule) while and prentending to not know why despite multiple explanations of the obvious. You'd think the novelty would have worn off by now after four years of posting your apparent surprise unless you're a troll who purposely just comes by to poke the hornet's nest...
Four years? Wow time flies when having fun. Warned about what?
Besides, my poll went nicely. Revealed some interesting information I may or may not reveal.
KTG17 wrote: Honestly I am not trolling. Its amazing this convo is still going on.
Sometimes it takes a little faith that something good can come out of a bad situation.
I have met a bunch of nice folk that are helping me out to "complete" my Robotech tabletop gaming.
It may not ever be Palladium Books, but this forum is acting as a mighty fine support group all the same.
All one needs is a little faith.
Believing in the earth being visited by advanced alien life takes a measure of faith well beyond what we demonstrate here, so you should be able to relate.
Besides, my poll went nicely. Revealed some interesting information I may or may not reveal.
Rick, is that you?
Kid_Kyoto wrote:I got this as a gift to myself around the time Kyoto Secunda and Kyoto Secunda Prime were born.
They turn 5 in February.
Y'know I wasn't going to pledge but the plastic Monster broke my will. Then they rereleased the Monster model...
I held off pledging until they announced the Zent female armor models.
What really fooled me was when they showed the models for their demo game and the (3D printed) Monster. I really believed they meant they WERE 98% done, had the base models lined out and were just waiting for the backer money to go into full-bore production - y'know, their line about "we already have factory time lined up". Now I know better, but there's nothing I can do about it - or get my money back.
sqir666 wrote: And now it looks like Peter has gone a bit crazy trying to defend PB.
Say what?
On the RT"Unofficial" Facebook.
Basically it's the standard "If you're unhappy, leave. Stop bringing everyone else down." that we used to see a few places.
I kind of get his point (on that forum, people seem to actively be trying to keep things going). But it does come across a little as "Don't care if you lost money, don't bitch, go away.". And talk about how RRT is supported, and people need some patience, and that PB shouldn't be demonized.
As I've said before, if the campaign is making you seethe, then yes, you should probably step away. But if you get some catharsis from yelling into the void (aka PB's Customer Service), then you should do that too.
Yep, these words sum it up nicely.
When bad things happen to good people, sometimes it seems to amuse others who should explore the merit of their amusement.
As was pointed out with the Facebook group, it is the effort to contribute something positive that is good with a forum like this.
The ongoing discussion is to support those who still want to continue with what they have from this project and to let the "creator" PB know that breach of contract is far from forgotten.
Anyway, Alpharius has dropped the MOD reminder so we really all should play nice.
I did not back this Kickstarter but I did back one where the creator is pulling from the Palladium playbook to explain a months long absence (illness, bad email) which is pretty amusing to see.
As far as the utility of this thread, I will say that I sometimes get tempted to buy some Unseen for BattleTech purposes but those of you here remind me of why the manufacturer should not be supported at this time.
Alpharius Walks wrote: I did not back this Kickstarter but I did back one where the creator is pulling from the Palladium playbook to explain a months long absence (illness, bad email) which is pretty amusing to see.
As far as the utility of this thread, I will say that I sometimes get tempted to buy some Unseen for BattleTech purposes but those of you here remind me of why the manufacturer should not be supported at this time.
There's nothing stopping buying on the secondary market (Ebay etc).
You deny PB a sale, get what you want, and you put money in the pockets of someone who's been screwed.
It's a win for everybody. And by everybody, I mean everybody but Kevin.
There's nothing stopping buying on the secondary market (Ebay etc).
I'm not sure I'd go that far, the minis are still a pain to assemble and IMO not very good quality. Of course it beats Unseen prices and questionable authenticity (if you're using ebay or the like), but PB made some pretty bad minis.
There's nothing stopping buying on the secondary market (Ebay etc).
I'm not sure I'd go that far, the minis are still a pain to assemble and IMO not very good quality. Of course it beats Unseen prices and questionable authenticity (if you're using ebay or the like), but PB made some pretty bad minis.
Le sigh.
I was meaning from a moral/ethical position of not wanting to have Kevin benefit.
The mechanical reasons that you point out are valid, but he should have had fair warning on that by even the most cursory examination of the product.
ScarletRose wrote: So, not to get hopes up or anything, but isn't complete silence from the company over the line into "project failed" territory? I know Kickstarter probably won't do much since they got their cut, but this seems like pretty strong evidence that PB isn't doing anything to fulfill the KS.
The clowns running Shadows Of Brimstone (2nd worst Kickstarter I've dealt with) typically go two to three months between updates.
I don’t feel they can be tarred with the same brush as Palladium. Shadows of Brimstone delivered everything I believe despite likely spending a ton more cash than they raised.
Shadows of brimstone made the cardinal sin, too many stretch goals and too many minis for the cheap minecart cost. They had to do what kingdom death did, and release items to retail as they worked on production. This gave them cash flow so they wouldnt end up in bankruptcy. That's why the fist kickstarter took years.... but I got all three waves and everything from the first ks. One of the best bang for my buck kickstarters! Boxes and boxes of minis and a great game.
The new kickstarter was similar, but they were more cautious on pricing. Most kickstarters break even or lose money, but the point is to get production costs covered so they can continue to sell at retail later for a profit.
RRT on the other hand... worst fn ks since Heroquest 25th. Neither will deliver and a total theft of cash from backers. What was released was crap minis with a mediocre game system (crap army list building).
455_PWR wrote: Shadows of brimstone made the cardinal sin, too many stretch goals and too many minis for the cheap minecart cost. They had to do what kingdom death did, and release items to retail as they worked on production. This gave them cash flow so they wouldnt end up in bankruptcy. That's why the fist kickstarter took years.... but I got all three waves and everything from the first ks. One of the best bang for my buck kickstarters! Boxes and boxes of minis and a great game.
The new kickstarter was similar, but they were more cautious on pricing. Most kickstarters break even or lose money, but the point is to get production costs covered so they can continue to sell at retail later for a profit.
RRT on the other hand... worst fn ks since Heroquest 25th. Neither will deliver and a total theft of cash from backers. What was released was crap minis with a mediocre game system (crap army list building).
Yup. Some people like to compare the two, due to the crappy communication policy and the lateness, but to me they're apples and rocketships.
The end result for SoB W1 had some flaws in the lack of detail, but was otherwise awesome.
The end result for SoB W2 took a long time, but you could SEE evidence of it being completed.
Neither of those are applicable to RRT.
I know some people are irate, hell, I was irate at the planning of the W1Australia shipment. But too often people complain without understanding the issue at play in your opening para. When the issue of W2 delays, or the endless complaints about the "extortion" of W1.5, I even asked several times "What should FFP do?", given how overextended they were. Noone was able to give me a good answer beyond "Give me my stuff!". But doing that would have bankrupted the project well before completion.
Similarly, as has been reported by a few backers, those that wanted refunds on outstanding materials, got them. Sometimes there was a delay in getting the payment, and while I don't know what the offers were, I don't recall anyone coming back and saying that FFP's offer was unreasonable. So that was a plus. Whereas Kevin is on record answering BBB complaints as saying we've technically already got what we're owed, pledge vs MSRP, so tough noogies. And no refunds anyway because we're ***sooooo*** totally working on it.
I'm not saying SoB backers didn't have reason to complain (and some still do), but comparing the two is being hella generous to PB, and unfair to FFP. The game is fantastic, and I've spent a crapload of time playing it. Whereas I bailed on RRT as soon as it started going pear shaped, and despite getting a copy of the rules and a sprue of Battlepods from Forar, haven't regretted that decision in even the tiniest way.
Both campaigns certainly have their issues, their room for reasonable people to find things not to their liking or otherwise unacceptable.
This is an olive branch that I am extending with hopes I don't regret it.
However, for me the cornerstone is something that Morgan touched upon; is there 'an out'?
PB won't give us an out for RRT. They will hold our money and ire for years to come at this rate, no admitting to wrongdoing or falling short other than in the most obnoxious "our only flaw was that we cared too much" sort of way.
FFP has, as far as I've seen, been willing to give people refunds where requested. If an action is so egregious, if a delay is so long, if seeing Cynder on store shelves while waiting for wave 2 is that rage inducing, people could write them up and get that sorted out.
Or, as in both campaigns, they could find someone else willing to take their pledge on. I know that PB has been willing to make that happen in the past, though obviously anyone looking to buy wave 2 off someone else for more than a fraction of what it's 'worth' (pro-rated or whatever) needs to be separated from their financial independence for their own safety.
It isn't unreasonable to want the thing that was paid for, but I think a lot of the comparisons between the two are either dismissively charitable to PB or remarkably callous towards the realities in play for FFP.
But I'm also a big fanboy, hence bothering to type this up in the first place.
The reality is that a big (million+) KS can hit snags, and regardless of how one might feel about a given company, some of them waffle and navel gaze and we go years without more than token evidence of progress, and others tangibly produce new elements each year, every year.
People can be pissed about not getting something fast enough with SoB, or be very understandably frustrated at the glacial rate of shipping that has surpassed even my expectations.
But a direct contrast is no contest, at least in my eyes.
And I mean, big, successful, crowd drawing campaigns can have gakky communications. It's not exactly a reason to crucify them. I love what Dwarven Forge does each year and we're often lucky (post campaign) to get an update more frequently than quarterly (I really don't think that's a lot of hyperbole, I'm pretty sure it's less than monthly for most of their campaigns) and they still bring in 1-2m+ per KS. It's not unreasonable to be annoyed by infrequent communications, but neither are infrequent updates a surefire sign of failure or lacking quality. Hell, Wayne and co spent most of 2013 dropping fairly regularly weekly updates and there are no mistakes to be made about how that gakshow ended up (thousands of pages of posts that we have on the topic).
It's not impossible to both hope that a campaign has set reasonable goals and timelines, but also recognize that sometimes things go sideways. FFP's second campaign has moved from a March delivery target to "Summer 2018", so it slid a quarter or two. Which isn't ideal. But I'd rather hear it, in advance, like an adult, than get silence and more navel gazing until it becomes impossible for them to meet a goal, like we used to get with RRT in 2013 ("Oh, we'll totally delivery in Q1 of 2014!" "Ooops, did I say that? I meant we need to go to 2 waves, one of which will be early 2014, the other will be later in 2014, no worries guys!")
Anyways, this is getting rambly and I need to get back to my salted caramel Baileys (it's delicious, guys), I mostly just swung by to say hi and wish you all a merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/friendly fistbump, stay warm, stay safe, and I'm sure we'll have plenty to mock in the next week or two once the expected PB newsletter drops to declare how no, really, THIS YEAR they're totally going to release a book a week or some other crazy gak.
Forar wrote: Or, as in both campaigns, they could find someone else willing to take their pledge on. I know that PB has been willing to make that happen in the past, though obviously anyone looking to buy wave 2 off someone else for more than a fraction of what it's 'worth' (pro-rated or whatever) needs to be separated from their financial independence for their own safety.
Obviously the latter, at least at this point, would require serious mental evaluation, but I did want to point out that while PB did say they were willing to make it happen, in traditional Palladium Books fashion, they made it as hard, and as anachronistic as humanely possible, in the most Luddite way imaginable.
I started the process of asking for a refund on March 18, 2014. This was four days after we saw the Spartan, and the same day as we got the "It had to be made this way" Update. After about 2 months (May 22nd), I finally found a backer willing to buy out one of my pledges (they eventually bought the second as well, for which I'm eternally grateful) for secondary market speculation. And here's where it gets hinky.
Palladium's process for this exchange, was for the other backer to snail mail a PERSONAL CHEQUE to Palladium's offices, where Palladium would then cash it into their own accounts, and then write a business cheque to me, and again, send it be snail mail, updating the orders at that point.
Despite the other backer doing so mid-June (and both of us thinking this was INSANE), and waiting and waiting and waiting, PB never acknowledged receipt of (or cashed, to be fair), that cheque. We eventually went "Feth it" in August, and the other backer was willing to put some faith in me being more honorable than Palladium, so we did it via PayPal (the second Pledge in September). As they were a domestic backer, and I was an international backer, and we were unclear on whether the two lots of $50 for shipping would be refunded or allowed to be used for store credit, I gave them a discount on that (half), and ate all relevant PayPal fees (which ate up the other half, that's why I'm out ~$100, and all the happy for it). We both told PB, and PB changed the shipping addresses. As they received the packages, it appears to be the one frikkin' thing Palladium did right in the entire post-campaign.
I did feel guilty about a year later, when it became obvious Wave 2 was possibly non-existent, but was assured they'd made their money back already on resales so anything else would be gravy, but they weren't personally out any funds. So I was pleased to hear that.
EDIT: Just to reclarify, we reached an agreement in late May, and it took until the end of August (then the end of September for Pledge 2) to complete what should have been an immediate transaction, because PB wanted to do it in the slowest and most stupid way possible. And it was only by going around PB we were able to do it at all.
Seawolf wrote: Really at this point, for me its now a matter of watching how this ends (likely in pitchforks and flame)...
I threw out the RRT stuff I owned yesterday...
You should have tried ebay.. I got like $40 for my pledge.. better than nothing .. was a loss but I also made money reselling kingdom death and massive darkness so I guess I'm about even now
I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and enjoyed the time with their family... and are looking forward to a New Year of gaming hijinks...
Comparing Kingdom Death and Shadows of Brimstone to Robotech RPG Tactics is not really a good comparison in my opinion. While All three have their issues in various forms, both Shadows of Brimstone and Kingdom Death have upheld their end of their kickstarter obligations and have sent product to their backers. While I understand that there was frustration, gnashing of teeth, and wailing o' plenty the fact of the matter is that their backers got what was promised to them. It may have been late, but product was received. Palladium has yet to do so with Robotech RRT (if they intend to do so at all) and continuing puffery that year 20XX is the Year of Robotech RPG tactics have shown little substance.
The fact that Palladium missed their update on the 12th is no real surprise to me and will continue to not surprise me if there is no update tonight. Palladium has made it clear to the backers of this kickstarter, you are either a true believer and will wait patiently for your just due from Kevin "I AM PALLADIUM" Siembieda, or you are an ungrateful hater and should be chastised for demanding anything more than what you received. How they continue to be in business with this attitude is beyond me.
So popcorn and your favorite beverage for tonights' no-show. Cheers!
Seawolf wrote: Really at this point, for me its now a matter of watching how this ends (likely in pitchforks and flame)...
I threw out the RRT stuff I owned yesterday...
You should have tried ebay.. I got like $40 for my pledge.. better than nothing .. was a loss but I also made money reselling kingdom death and massive darkness so I guess I'm about even now
What I have seen on E-bay regarding RRT shows me that its not moving well enough to make the attempt. Besides, why torture fellow gamers?
I didn't sell my pledge just the stuff I received already.. I didn't want to go through the hassle of trying to track down a buyer if/when the new stuff shows up in 10 years. One guy asked if I would do that, and I said yeah just to be nice so someone would take it off my hands, and luckily someone outbid him So if I get anything else some day I'll just sell that separately.
Nope, he just posted. We got a new Malcontent faction character that oddly enough only pilots models that are already released and zero information about the kickstarter itself.
Swabby wrote: Nope, he just posted. We got a new Malcontent faction character that oddly enough only pilots models that are already released and zero information about the kickstarter itself.
Really, though, only piloting models that have been released shows a...fantastic level of awareness by the chuds over at Palladium Books. It's almost like someone spent half a second thinking, "Now, how can I avoid instantly stepping on a rake?"
...And gives every mecha In his squad an extra attack. I don’t play, but that sounds fairly powerful, if not unbalanced (say, leading an Artillery Pod squad?).
The extra attack thing cracks me up. BTW I was wrong about what mechs he can pilot, he can pilot any of the malcontent ground options but prefers the models that have already been released.
Swabby wrote: The extra attack thing cracks me up. BTW I was wrong about what mechs he can pilot, he can pilot any of the malcontent ground options but prefers the models that have already been released.
“Prefers”? If they aren’t even going to limit the mecha (ex:. Officer’s pod/Eldaire, Tomahawk only) or give some special ability for choosing the mecha (ex.: +1 pilot in Officer’s pod or Tomahawk), why did they even bother to mention it? That’s worse than lazy, it’s stupid and misleading.
It's nice to know at Palladiumland that if something happens to someone, no one else is allowed to step in an cover for them. Most real workplaces I know of require cross-training and the ability to cover other people's tasks in case of emergency/sickness/vacation.
Would it have been so difficult for Wayne to post a notification there would be a delay in the update - or perhaps even do the update for him? I mean, he's just got to copy-pasta part of an old PBWU.
Stormonu wrote: It's nice to know at Palladiumland that if something happens to someone, no one else is allowed to step in an cover for them. Most real workplaces I know of require cross-training and the ability to cover other people's tasks in case of emergency/sickness/vacation.
Would it have been so difficult for Wayne to post a notification there would be a delay in the update - or perhaps even do the update for him? I mean, he's just got to copy-pasta part of an old PBWU.
Can you imagine an corporate improvement company reviewing Palladium games?? I am sure their first question after walking through the door is how are we going to get paid??
But the kickstarter was originally due in December 2013; Four years ago.. I am sure we will be saying the same thing this time next year..
Funny thing is the only "Releases" Robotech Tactics has gotten since its release has been digital and nothing to do with the actual things backers paid for.
By the way things are done, I really think Scott's job is paid with new palladium releases, because the work done is no more than a few hours a month at best.
Hey that me who started this topic on facebook. Well it a look of what Kev was saying about Robotech Tactics Rpg for 2017 and now that 2017 is closing out. What have they to show for 2017 not damn thing at all. Oh by the way everyone have great Happy New Year and drink to much. Later
I know it has taken a very long time to fulfill this Kickstarter, and for that I am very sorry. More sorry than some of you may be able to imagine. But we are dedicated to getting Wave 2 done and in your hands by the end of 2017. Not only that, but we want to make it amazing. Our Kickstarter backers and fans have waited so long for RRT Wave 2, that if we can make improvements we want to do so. We have been frustrated by many aspects of production that clash with what we know would make a superior product. Moreover, we want to offer organized play support, scenario books, and the next several Waves of RRT products. We have never given up on our dream to make Robotech® RPG Tactics™ amazing.
We are working on something exciting right now that, if it pans out, could change everything and help us bring you RRT Wave Two by the end of 2017. We want to bring Robotech® to life on the table top like never before, and we are working hard to make this happen.
We have not released details these many months because everything has been in motion, and still is. There have been times when we thought we had firm plans for moving forward, only to have something occur to change them – good or bad. Case in point, we had pretty much resigned ourselves to being unable to significantly lower the part count in the RRT game pieces. However, we are suddenly readdressing that as we explore new possibilities that have surfaced. In fact, I have spent most of the week on this very matter. We are working on all of this with the desire to bring you something great, not just crap it out to be done with it. We have big dreams for Robotech® on several fronts, and are trying to make them all happen. To that end we have had many positive and exciting conversations with Harmony Gold and other interested parties. I know it is a lot to ask, but please hang in there with us. We think we have something truly fun brewing.
YEP!! Alpharius that is from Kev. When I read it Feb of 2017 I new it was bunch horse crap and that 2017 is closing out I was right in thinking that was horse crap.
In retrospect as many mentioned over the coarse of 2017; I really think the 2017 plan for Robotech Tactics wave 2 was to have an amazing Rifts Kickstarter,
they could push off for a few years.
Then take the profits from it to finish paying for wave 2, since all the funds already gathered for it was either overspent or misspent.
Hoping for profits again for new products of Robotech Tactics at retail they could pay for the Rifts Kickstarter products to be produced.
With that kind of pressure on someone to succeed .. it could cause what ended up happening...
I'm quite certain they had NO plans to redirect the money from Rifts back towards RRT.
While they've shown a level of incompetence exceeding the government standard, they're apparently smart enough to know not to sink any additional funds into this sinking ship.
The Rifts KS funds went into publish the Atlanteans book, pure and simple.
There seemed to have been plans to use Rifts KS to manufacture wave 2. Whether it was to fund it or to produce them together to save on production and shipping.
Kevin was pushing Carmen to get the project launched earlier than Carmen wanted. Whether for an influx of cash or to get concurrent production going or whatever.
Plus, frankly, I don't think it costs them hundreds of thousands of dollars to do a book run. There was the chatter so very long ago assuming that NG-2 allowed them to finish NG-1, and perhaps *some* funds went into Atlanteans or some other elements, but I doubt that sum was the difference between finishing wave 2 and not finishing wave 2.
HOWEVER, funds redirected to a book (or books), keeping the lights on, spent on making and overstocking wave one on a hedged bet that it'd sell enough to make the money back and then some, paying for people and services and prototypes, I CAN imagine it being nibbled away, bit by bit, over the last 4.5 years.
I don't think they can afford to fund wave two, but I don't think any single element was the cause, I think they all were the cause in varying amounts. No easy AH HA! IT WAS THAT THING to declare, just an easy bank of money to draw from a little at a time until suddenly there's pocket change left (or maybe more, but likely not the hundreds of thousands it'd presumably cost to make, let alone ship, wave two).
Sorry, the "Rifts KS" I was referring to was the Savage Worlds one (run successfully) by another company (that I trust far more than PB) - if that wasn't clear.
Truthfully, I expect the royalties they received went towards bills - including Kevin's broken arm, and to fund the one or two books they pushed out this year - probably the Disavowed moreso than Atlanteans. But that Atlanteans was given the faux leather/gold filligree treatment I'm pretty sure that wasn't funded by Christmas Grab bags or poker cards.
In the end, I'm fairly certain that none of the money this year went into the sinking Titantic that was RRT. I'd be shocked if there was even actual thought of putting it aside for RRT. In my mind, if Kevin were to actually try and refund the bankrupt RRT fund, he'd do it in a one fell swoop sort of way, instead of drips and dregs.
Well RRT got a bit more of my money, kinda not really.
Getting a bunch of models in the mail that "completes" the game for me.
It cost a fair bit but I now have a form of closure.
I will be poking PB for fun but at least it will be from a happier place.
Robotech will still be a fond memory and I can now work on them with some measure of happiness.
Something about missing pieces of anything drive me a bit crazy.
Got a few more FFGSW X-wing models so the collection is complete, those alliance bombers are huge!
Playing SW Battlefront 2 for the first time, loving it very much.
I am a happy SW fanboy.
So THIS childhood "fond memory" has continued into the present and mean something to my kids.
Heck, I was playing on the same team as my eldest son in SWBF2 and I felt like I was playing the Han Solo to his Luke Skywalker (getting shot a couple times i thought he was being Kylo).
We had played paint ball the other day on opposite teams: "The dodge is strong in that one".
I look at this new year as a year of not putting up with company BS.(I will spare you my rant unless you are interested)
Spoiler:
I got a Samsung HMC Odyssey VR gear from Microsoft (only means to get it in Canada) for my youngest son (so late, such a patient kid), it had huge issues with the controllers.
Between Samsung and Microsoft, I will never buy hardware from either of them ever again.
Heck, Samsung Canada had no record of the product to be able to support and had to transfer me to their American friends.
Microsoft "help" lines I swear are designed to make you give up.
If you do not fit in their defined scripts you are done.
12 human beings later, 6 hours on phone I will never get back and by the end I was angrily hissing "RE-FUND!, No more of this! No-one I have spoken to so-far knows squat, never mind fix it!" until I got what I demanded.
Oculus Rift has my money now.
I am still not liking my experiences with on-line / mail order compared to bricks and mortar sales.
Benefit of the doubt has been burned from my soul with companies that sell product.
Give me what I ask for as a working product, I will accept nothing less.
So I wish you all a happy year with no consumer problems.
Forar wrote: Plus, frankly, I don't think it costs them hundreds of thousands of dollars to do a book run. There was the chatter so very long ago assuming that NG-2 allowed them to finish NG-1, and perhaps *some* funds went into Atlanteans or some other elements, but I doubt that sum was the difference between finishing wave 2 and not finishing wave 2.
If memory serves, just before this Kickstarter came into fruition, Kevin was supposedly 'betrayed' by a former partner/employee/mushroom though exact figures were never truly mentioned. He had lamented that without the help of the PB fan base there wouldn't be a company. Some sort of anniversary/special edition book was created at a rather idiotic price was offered to help Kevin recoup some of the lost funds that were supposedly stolen from him. Additionally he made reference to this in an RRT Update that said if this Kickstarter is successful, it would ease some of the financial issues he was supposedly facing. Not to beat a dead horse made into tartar... but it does sound to me like the money specifically for this Kickstarter was not used entirely for this Kickstarter. Without seeing Palladiums' financials on the Kickstarter, we'll never know more than what is said after the fact.
Forar wrote: HOWEVER, funds redirected to a book (or books), keeping the lights on, spent on making and overstocking wave one on a hedged bet that it'd sell enough to make the money back and then some, paying for people and services and prototypes, I CAN imagine it being nibbled away, bit by bit, over the last 4.5 years.
So can I... but since this is a privately held company and the owner clearly has no intention of being transparent... we'll never know. He has said that none of the funds were used inappropriately but his word says otherwise. The less said about his reputation (or what little, if any, remains) the better.
Forar wrote: I don't think they can afford to fund wave two, but I don't think any single element was the cause, I think they all were the cause in varying amounts. No easy AH HA! IT WAS THAT THING to declare, just an easy bank of money to draw from a little at a time until suddenly there's pocket change left (or maybe more, but likely not the hundreds of thousands it'd presumably cost to make, let alone ship, wave two).
Forar, I think there is enough circumstantial evidence built over the course of this Kickstarter to draw upon that would lead me to believe that its a perfect storm of incompetence and hubris of Kevin Siembieda. At the end of the day when everything is said and done on this matter, it falls on Kevin Siembieda's huge egotistical and narcissistic shoulders. He won't accept the responsibility for bad decision making, he won't admit he abused the backers' trust (Gak, this is the same needle-noggin' that blamed the same backers for Carmen Belleair's attempted suicide for crying out loud), he won't admit he will do nothing to finish the project, and he won't admit he failed. Simple as that.
I think we actually did learn the amount in "cash" that was stolen during The Crisis® of Threachery™ - and it didn't seem like it was that much?
"Only" $16K or something like that?
And wasn't the culprit caught, and forced to pay it back?
And not sure if the Fridge Artwork was also part of The Crisis® of Threachery™ though - and estimates of their value was, let's just say, great exaggerated.
Stormonu wrote: Truthfully, I expect the royalties they received went towards bills - including Kevin's broken arm, and to fund the one or two books they pushed out this year - probably the Disavowed moreso than Atlanteans. But that Atlanteans was given the faux leather/gold filligree treatment I'm pretty sure that wasn't funded by Christmas Grab bags or poker cards.
I agree with nearly everything else you wrote int your post, except this.
Because Disavowed still hasn't been released. It's still "in production", just like it has been for a year plus. The second book PB released this year was Dark Designs. I know it's confusing, what with so many books due for imminent release. Bestiary 1 is hoped to deliver in time for Christmas ( ). Disavowed is due January. As is Bestiary 2. Sovietski due February. And a Dead Reign book due in March. And I didn't pull this schedule from mid-year or something. These are all listed release dates in the last real PBWU (the December 21st PBWU was a textual stroking of Kevin's ..... ego), December 13th. He thinks just over three months out, he'll have 5 books complete.
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Seawolf wrote: So can I... but since this is a privately held company and the owner clearly has no intention of being transparent... we'll never know. He has said that none of the funds were used inappropriately but his word says otherwise. The less said about his reputation (or what little, if any, remains) the better.
Actually, he never said funds weren't used inappropriately. He was quite explicit in what he didn't spend the money on (houses, boats, vacations), but he never explicitly said money hadn't been misappropriated for other business expenses, like printing Northern Gun, or paying operating costs in disproportion to effort spent on Kickstarter fulfillment (like paying a disproportionate share of rent/utilities/wages from KS funds, compared to work on that project as opposed other projects and boondoggles). It was painfully obvious that he was dodging the most important question, of did Palladium spend Kickstarter funds on retail stock. Because of course they did.
Seawolf wrote: If memory serves, just before this Kickstarter came into fruition, Kevin was supposedly 'betrayed' by a former partner/employee/mushroom though exact figures were never truly mentioned. He had lamented that without the help of the PB fan base there wouldn't be a company. Some sort of anniversary/special edition book was created at a rather idiotic price was offered to help Kevin recoup some of the lost funds that were supposedly stolen from him. Additionally he made reference to this in an RRT Update that said if this Kickstarter is successful, it would ease some of the financial issues he was supposedly facing. Not to beat a dead horse made into tartar... but it does sound to me like the money specifically for this Kickstarter was not used entirely for this Kickstarter. Without seeing Palladiums' financials on the Kickstarter, we'll never know more than what is said after the fact.
The "Crisis of Treachery" was seven years prior to the kickstarter. While I don't doubt that it caused immediate financial hardship, the rot was present long before and has continued to spread slowly since (as evidenced by them only coming out with 2 books a year for the past couple of years). The Robotech Kickstarter was likely a financial course of antibiotics to temporarily treat the systemic signs and symptoms of the gangrene but the definitive treatment, amputation of the rotten limbs/staff, never happened.
Forar, I think there is enough circumstantial evidence built over the course of this Kickstarter to draw upon that would lead me to believe that its a perfect storm of incompetence and hubris of Kevin Siembieda. At the end of the day when everything is said and done on this matter, it falls on Kevin Siembieda's huge egotistical and narcissistic shoulders. He won't accept the reposinibility for bad decision making, he won't admit he abused the backers' trust (Gak, this is the same needle-noggin' that blamed the same backers for Carmen Belleair's suicide fro crying out loud), he won't admit he will do nothing to finish the project, and he won't admit he failed. Simple as that.
I don't recall seeing Forar ever argue otherwise beyond softening the same blow to simply be allowed to continue posting on the Palladium forums without getting banned.
Alpharius wrote: I think we actually did learn the amount in "cash" that was stolen during The Crisis® of Threachery™ - and it didn't seem like it was that much?
"Only" $16K or something like that?
And wasn't the culprit caught, and forced to pay it back?
And not sure if the Fridge Artwork was also part of The Crisis® of Threachery™ though - and estimates of their value was, let's just say, great exaggerated.
According to Wiki, Kevin claimed 850K-1.5M. That he had a 650K variation indicates he's f'n clueless. 10% differential? Fair enough. A more than 70% variation? Yeah, wishful thinking.
The judge awarded a settlement of 47K. Or barely 5.5% of the minimum "claimed" value. Kevin complains he had to take it, or get nothing, and he needed to keep the company afloat. Which appears to be utter crap. Why? Because most reports seem to say that most of the theft/embezzlement wasn't cash. It was stock and collectibles. Still bad, not arguing it. But not something that is liquid capital for operating expenses, and therefore not necessary to keep the company afloat via donations. The collectibles are a distraction, and the stock issue at BEST, is a timeframe one that could have been solved by PB running a pre-order for reprint of any items that had low stock levels as a result ("We've only got 14 copies of Rifts Book 17. We'll do a print run if we can get 200 pre-orders").
It's possible the situation was worse than being reported, but I've come to accept that Kevin Siembeda is innately full of crap. It's what he gets for dissembling for at least 4.5 years (since I've been listening), and probably the entirety of his career.
Seawolf, this was included in the Palladium Weekly Update 21 Feb 2013, which is what I think you referred to, being just prior to the KS launch when Kev was rallying the PB White Knights to his cause
Quote "The success of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ could be huge for Palladium Books as a company. A successful launch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is the final piece of the puzzle to make Palladium Books® strong again. A successful launch will enable us to eliminate debt and give Palladium the resources to hire more staff and more freelance talent and do so much more for ALL our game lines. I already have a dream team of creators lined up to bring on board. They can hardly wait. The excitement is electric."
With a large dollop of hindsight nearly five years on this is a pretty damning/damaging staement that kevin is totally accountable for and perhaps does need a lot of explaining regarding the usage of RTT funds to support other non kickstarter PB product/staff/wages
Alpharius wrote: I think we actually did learn the amount in "cash" that was stolen during The Crisis® of Threachery™ - and it didn't seem like it was that much?
"Only" $16K or something like that?
And wasn't the culprit caught, and forced to pay it back?
And not sure if the Fridge Artwork was also part of The Crisis® of Threachery™ though - and estimates of their value was, let's just say, great exaggerated.
According to Wiki, Kevin claimed 850K-1.5M. That he had a 650K variation indicates he's f'n clueless. 10% differential? Fair enough. A more than 70% variation? Yeah, wishful thinking.
The judge awarded a settlement of 47K. Or barely 5.5% of the minimum "claimed" value. Kevin complains he had to take it, or get nothing, and he needed to keep the company afloat. Which appears to be utter crap. Why? Because most reports seem to say that most of the theft/embezzlement wasn't cash. It was stock and collectibles. Still bad, not arguing it. But not something that is liquid capital for operating expenses, and therefore not necessary to keep the company afloat via donations. The collectibles are a distraction, and the stock issue at BEST, is a timeframe one that could have been solved by PB running a pre-order for reprint of any items that had low stock levels as a result ("We've only got 14 copies of Rifts Book 17. We'll do a print run if we can get 200 pre-orders").
It's possible the situation was worse than being reported, but I've come to accept that Kevin Siembeda is innately full of crap. It's what he gets for dissembling for at least 4.5 years (since I've been listening), and probably the entirety of his career.
Ah, so I was a little off too - I'm no better than PB!
But yeah, $47K is a ways away from $650K to $1.5M!
Also, from the link you gave us, I found what will probably be the epilogue here as well:
Having made this last ditch appeal, he seems willing to accept the results. 'If Palladium Books should come to an end, I have no regrets,' he said. 'I'll know I did everything possible to keep going and do right by everyone.'
Alpharius wrote: I think we actually did learn the amount in "cash" that was stolen during The Crisis® of Threachery™ - and it didn't seem like it was that much?
"Only" $16K or something like that?
And wasn't the culprit caught, and forced to pay it back?
And not sure if the Fridge Artwork was also part of The Crisis® of Threachery™ though - and estimates of their value was, let's just say, great exaggerated.
According to Wiki, Kevin claimed 850K-1.5M. That he had a 650K variation indicates he's f'n clueless. 10% differential? Fair enough. A more than 70% variation? Yeah, wishful thinking.
Considering his usual retirement strategies, I assume it depends on the vagaries of Ebay and whether or not certain comics get reprinted.
warboss wrote: I don't recall seeing Forar ever argue otherwise beyond softening the same blow to simply be allowed to continue posting on the Palladium forums without getting banned.
Not sure where I implied or inferred that he did. I was discussing a point he made, if I misconstrued Forars' point, then my apologies to Forar and my thanks to you for pointing it out.
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wilycoyote wrote: Seawolf, this was included in the Palladium Weekly Update 21 Feb 2013, which is what I think you referred to, being just prior to the KS launch when Kev was rallying the PB White Knights to his cause
Quote "The success of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ could be huge for Palladium Books as a company. A successful launch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is the final piece of the puzzle to make Palladium Books® strong again. A successful launch will enable us to eliminate debt and give Palladium the resources to hire more staff and more freelance talent and do so much more for ALL our game lines. I already have a dream team of creators lined up to bring on board. They can hardly wait. The excitement is electric."
With a large dollop of hindsight nearly five years on this is a pretty damning/damaging statement that kevin is totally accountable for and perhaps does need a lot of explaining regarding the usage of RTT funds to support other non kickstarter PB product/staff/wages
Yep ... that be the one. I still get a chuckle out of it. This is a lesson on why Palladium should be avoided like the plague.
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n815e wrote: If only they invested in inventory software, or just made a friggin' spreadsheet...
Problem with that, n815e, Kevin would want to do his own inventory software and his own spreadsheet, because his vision cannot be matched by the plebe's.
n815e wrote: If only they invested in inventory software, or just made a friggin' spreadsheet...
I doubt that would have helped. The guy embezzling from PB was the one in charge of the inventory.
The whole farce is - they did. To "aid" in shipping out Wave 1, they bought a whole new inventory software package, and Wayne had to take classes (mentioned somewhere around Update 149).
Forar wrote: Plus, frankly, I don't think it costs them hundreds of thousands of dollars to do a book run. There was the chatter so very long ago assuming that NG-2 allowed them to finish NG-1, and perhaps *some* funds went into Atlanteans or some other elements, but I doubt that sum was the difference between finishing wave 2 and not finishing wave 2.
If memory serves, just before this Kickstarter came into fruition, Kevin was supposedly 'betrayed' by a former partner/employee/mushroom though exact figures were never truly mentioned. He had lamented that without the help of the PB fan base there wouldn't be a company. Some sort of anniversary/special edition book was created at a rather idiotic price was offered to help Kevin recoup some of the lost funds that were supposedly stolen from him. Additionally he made reference to this in an RRT Update that said if this Kickstarter is successful, it would ease some of the financial issues he was supposedly facing. Not to beat a dead horse made into tartar... but it does sound to me like the money specifically for this Kickstarter was not used entirely for this Kickstarter. Without seeing Palladiums' financials on the Kickstarter, we'll never know more than what is said after the fact.
Forar wrote: HOWEVER, funds redirected to a book (or books), keeping the lights on, spent on making and overstocking wave one on a hedged bet that it'd sell enough to make the money back and then some, paying for people and services and prototypes, I CAN imagine it being nibbled away, bit by bit, over the last 4.5 years.
So can I... but since this is a privately held company and the owner clearly has no intention of being transparent... we'll never know. He has said that none of the funds were used inappropriately but his word says otherwise. The less said about his reputation (or what little, if any, remains) the better.
Forar wrote: I don't think they can afford to fund wave two, but I don't think any single element was the cause, I think they all were the cause in varying amounts. No easy AH HA! IT WAS THAT THING to declare, just an easy bank of money to draw from a little at a time until suddenly there's pocket change left (or maybe more, but likely not the hundreds of thousands it'd presumably cost to make, let alone ship, wave two).
Forar, I think there is enough circumstantial evidence built over the course of this Kickstarter to draw upon that would lead me to believe that its a perfect storm of incompetence and hubris of Kevin Siembieda. At the end of the day when everything is said and done on this matter, it falls on Kevin Siembieda's huge egotistical and narcissistic shoulders. He won't accept the responsibility for bad decision making, he won't admit he abused the backers' trust (Gak, this is the same needle-noggin' that blamed the same backers for Carmen Belleair's attempted suicide for crying out loud), he won't admit he will do nothing to finish the project, and he won't admit he failed. Simple as that.
I'm trying not to be confrontational here (it's late, and I recognize I may be missing something super obvious), but I'm not sure what was really added beyond 'yeah, feth those guys'. As I catch up on this thread, others are correct, the Crisis Of Treachery was indeed many years prior to the RRT Kickstarter (and the alleged Crisis of Fridge Art came substantially later). Yes, much of the fault here can be laid at Kevin's feet, and no, we'll probably never get full disclosure without something exceptional happening (read; I win a couple million dollars in the lottery and decide that it's totally worthwhile to spend a portion of it dragging PB to court and getting full discovery, which will probably never happen, but if someone has a couple million laying around I will eagerly put it to use travelling the world like a playboy... I mean seeing justice done for the backers).
That said, I do occasionally miss or mistake something, but a few friends and folks around here (y'all know who you are) are generally quick to keep us all on the same page, and I do the same for them where possible.
Our little support group has been an immense help, even if it's just commiserating over lost potential and something akin to public service that this topic never go too far from the community's collective mind. That Palladium (in general) and Kevin (in specific) may never actually see substantial punishment for their endless lies and failure to show the very transparency and honesty they claimed would be present while drawing our money in during the campaign and leading up to the pledge manager is a shame. But I like to think that the toxic mess this has become (based on reasonable responses to their actions and inaction) will remain a taint on their already sullied reputation for years to come.
Forar wrote: Our little support group has been an immense help, even if it's just commiserating over lost potential and something akin to public service that this topic never go too far from the community's collective mind. That Palladium (in general) and Kevin (in specific) may never actually see substantial punishment for their endless lies and failure to show the very transparency and honesty they claimed would be present while drawing our money in during the campaign and leading up to the pledge manager is a shame. But I like to think that the toxic mess this has become (based on reasonable responses to their actions and inaction) will remain a taint on their already sullied reputation for years to come.
I mean... everyone needs a hobby.
This.
Oh, so very much this.
Performing a "public service" to warn people off PB is not really needed since there is sufficient public record.
Trying to push PB into action to make good on the KS rewards we are pretty sure is a fallacy never-mind refund.
PB's ability to repeatedly lie and stall has stopped being shocking other than how insane the pretense looks as years roll past, it feels insulting.
Moving forward, the good:
- Seeing Robotech related efforts from anyone here is a happy thing: making the idea of Robotech fun despite their worst efforts is a bit of a fan obligation.
- Being a resource to help those get their hands on Robotech gaming "stuff" has been invaluable.
- Support group work of being a positive voice is important especially when we ask "Was that latest PB post just crazy or am I not reading that right?" (Yes, you are fine, they are not).
Moving forward, the bad:
- Keeping an eye on PB to then "slap them down" when their next get rich quick scheme surfaces.
- I am thinking I should restrict my postings to here, the best thing I can do now is not participate in any PB official forum of any kind: the less "buzz" they get, the better.
I should be focusing more on painting anyway speaking of hobbies: my ratio of un-built kits vs assembled vs painted is way out of whack.
Have a good day.
I discovered the Rifts Boardgame kickstarter and I was idly considering backing it as Rifts was a huge part of my childhood. Then I came across this thread.
For some time, I had let the state of this KS get to me; it was unhealthy. Now, I can just come here to laugh and poke fun at the state of affairs.
I always love to see the positive stuff that does trickle in here - Mike’s game, the great paint jobs, folks efforts to make their own models. The small signs of survival despite PB’s best efforts to quash interest are heartening. We know, at least, the game could survive if it were in more competant hands.
*sigh*, so hard to put a positive spin on things, but PB is such an antithesis to help the situation.
feeder wrote: I discovered the Rifts Boardgame kickstarter and I was idly considering backing it as Rifts was a huge part of my childhood. Then I came across this thread.
So yeah, this thread is doing some public good
Glad it could be of a help. Another company BTW to watch out for is Prodos/Archon who are pulling almost the same schtick with their 2013 AVP crowdfunding customers (although they do dribble out rewards on occasion over the years unlike Palladium's full stop since 2015).
For the mods still left reading this (mainly Alpharius), is it a good time to retire this thread with the new year and start the third one? Maybe Forar could copy/paste (in honor of Mr. Siembieda himself!) one of his most recent recaps as the start and link both of the previous multihundred page threads? The restart that precipitated this second thread never happened and the rusted engine has seized long ago.
So.....with recent crisis of treachery discussion...
Kevin declares shenanigans by fan friend employee occurred to the tune 850k to 1.5mil over a two year period.
States he needs 100k asap just to keep the doors open.
Fan friend employee is charged and Kevin is awarded a whopping 47k in damages.
Days afterward public court documents indicate the VAST majority of said shenanigans was collectibles and items that should have zero to yo do with day to day ops of the business.
Thread with links to said documents deleted within day or two of being posted.
Add that this is about the same time Kevin was going thru his divorce......
As a person with an education in business as well as having run my own businesses.....events as kevin describes them did not pass the cursory "sniff" text to me then and still dont.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and he raised the 100k on short order by selling copies of a pencil art piece he did for 50 per copy. Sold 2000 of them.
I also check this forum about every week to see what is going on..Better minds than me keep me up to date on what is truly going on.
My care for RTT has long left me, but I don't feel Kevin should be able to walk away with a few million because he feels he has the right too..
Most of the comments here and on the kickstarter page are of the same points of view.. Reasonable and more or less thought out...
One day I might get my wish and they will come clean on the train wreak.. Hopefully when they do.. Harmony Gold will sue the pants
off palladium games for damaging their licence.
I hate the fact that every week Scott posts something that mentions the kickstarter in hopes that it qualifies as a kickstarter update.
With all of us knowing he is just kicking the can down the road, so Kevin can keep doing what he is doing...
Sad thing is, Most current players are not asking for any of their product; so nothing is ordered or stocked in the game stores, plus their "we will
try again next month" on their release dates makes dealers not want to deal with any type of pre order. Yet the company and their fain friends sit
and wonder why its so hard to find someone to play the game.
Plus the image quality alone has really went down hill the last decade.. Once high end painted cover art that someone would want a poster of.
Is now crappy low end digital art or Scanned in ink drawing that looks like it was colored in using Microsoft paint.
Plus the image quality alone has really went down hill the last decade.. Once high end painted cover art that someone would want a poster of.
Is now crappy low end digital art or Scanned in ink drawing that looks like it was colored in using Microsoft paint.
Most likely, that is a case of a) it's all he can afford b) fan-friend art doesn't have to be paid for and c) most of the decent artist who actually want to get paid know better than to deal with his company. (I've read mumblings he's shafted many of his freelancers out of honest paid - or in some cases any pay)
Which gets me thinking - does anyone know what happened to Kevin Long, the artist who did most of the old Robotech RPG art? I noticed in the revised rulebooks his traced-over (cleaned-up) artwork being present (I think signed Brian Manning). A couple of Long's artwork pieces made it over to the new books, but just about one per book or so.
Long went to FASA at one point as well and was released for being too "inspired" by Anime designs from what i hear and honestly....even several of his PB works are pretty much blatant rip offs of anime designs we in north america would have largely known nothing about at the time. (I am looking at you some Gundam, and Bubble Gum Crisis)
Well, seems to me that you’d want an artist whose artwork looks likes the existing property - for Robotech at least. I could see it being a problem for the likes of Rifts or Battletech “original” designs.
If he did do a lot of tracing it’s funny then that PB had another person come along and trace HIS artwork. As I mentioned, this appears to have been what was done for the revised Robotech books - take his art, trace over it and clean up the shadows/crosshatching aspect and pass it as new art.
Genoside07 wrote: Plus the image quality alone has really went down hill the last decade.. Once high end painted cover art that someone would want a poster of.
Is now crappy low end digital art or Scanned in ink drawing that looks like it was colored in using Microsoft paint.
Agreed. I used to have a collection of nearly everything PB had released to that point (mid 90's to early/mid'ish 2000's) and I enjoyed a lot of the artwork on both the covers and within. Sure, some of it is cheesy as hell, but generally it all suited the atmosphere of the game's setting anyway.
Triax 1, Psyscape, and Coalition War Campaign were some that I really liked, felt quite evocative of what was within.
Finding that they later moved to 'low quality Poser digital stuff' was a bit disappointing, but of course it's rather low on the lengthy list of reasons to be disappointed in this company.
Eventually my group stopped playing Rifts (moved on to D&D 3E) so I stopped buying, and eventually sold off most of what I owned after a few moves and getting tired of lugging heavy boxes of books around that I hadn't looked at in years. I still have maybe a dozen left, including much of their old Robotech line, a couple of Rifters, a few Rifts world books, and a Nightbane book or two. Basically books that held sentimental value of some sort (often tied to a character), even in the face of a company lying to me on basically a monthly basis.
Such a shame. I can imagine an alternate universe where this campaign wasn't a complete mess, and I perhaps persuaded myself to dig into an occasional grab bag for a few Robotech kits/figures and maybe a book or two/some Rifters for old time's sake, even if I'm not actively playing the RPG. I was a customer, and I can envision a world where I might have been one again. Instead, they got a chunk of cash out of my friends and I for this campaign, and it'll be the last dollars they see from any of us. Selling off most of what I got from wave 1 puts me back in the black on that arrangement, but my ire and disdain leave them at a net negative for sure.
Merijeek wrote: Wasn't he generally accused of being a 'tracer'? Or am I mixing him up with someone else?
Anyway, for a guy who was tracing, he still couldn't get the battloid fingers to match what was actually on screen.
This cracks me up. Not sure if its this guy either, but I actually despised Battletech growing up, but for some reason, have some attachment to it. I not only hunted down a Robotech 2nd set in great shape, but I also nailed all of the old TCI Battletech model sets (more for the history and scenarios in each set). And recently, I was able to score a very old and rare FASA Battledroids set, with mint contents. All of the mechs in this set are straight from Macross with the exception of two (who's models come in the box), and all of the art is literally like someone traced the original artwork and re-positioned them in various scenes. Its terrible. I was never a fan of the weird line art that followed 2nd edition either. If Battletech suffered from anything, it was from the art and design from their own designs. Japanese designs are typically far more elegant.
I also moved my Robotech RPG Tactics box from a location on a shelf where you can see it, to behind something else to prob up another box. I imagine the next move will be out the door.
I started battletech with the 2E set and have those 2D standees stored somewhere. Over the years, I collected a lot of battletech, but looking back, didn’t like the game so much (especially the randomness of the hit locations). Loved the models and TROs though, even to this day.
I’m curious - I may have asked this before, but who here has played the old Robotech RPG?
I personally vaguely remember running a campaign (the players had in their group an NPC spartan that was a prototype AI that got them into all kinds of trouble) that was set in the aftermath of the Zent war. It didn’t last long because we felt the system was ...not that great, and the group went back to playing Battletech.
Still have the books - in fact, the KS inspired me to pick up the revised books. But I expect I’d never use them except as reference material or have them for nostalgia’s sake - for the cartoon, not PB as a company.
I played in a robotech campaign for 2 years while at university. We didnt have a problem with the system but that may have been because we had a really great GM who made everything run smoothly. The campaign only stopped because we all finished college and went our separate ways.
Robotech was my introduction to Anime and Mecha. Not long after I got into Lodoss and Gundam.
I wanted this to be such a success. I wasn't into Tabletop RPG's at the time, so I'm completely in the dark to Palladium. Even after Getting into RPG's all I have with his name in it that isn't an ad is a Judge's Guild Journal in which he did the cover art.
Now That this fiasco has happened, I won't buy any products with Palladium on it. I've got about 300 RPG books and Palladium won't grace that shelf. I don't like giving scammers positive recognition.
I remember first playing Robotech RPG when i was sixteen. The chances that i could find others players at this time in France in a middle town (Rouen Normandy) were very small but it happened. I found my first fellow player in the bus, he was reading Robotech RPG Sentinels !
We were able to launch some campaigns for Robotech with 5-6 players.
I've been running a campaign for one year and half (South America during the invid invasion) and a friend was running a Sentinel campaign during that time too.
I don't even remember exactly why we stopped playing. Some of my friends and i simply had to deal with our studies and we moved on.
When i was at university i have played maybe half a dozen times with others RPG like Call of Chtulu, Vampires the mascarade and Gurps. I begun more interested with wargamming and especially mini painting.
Sweet memories.
Mid Nineties was the last time we played robotech RPG; Funny thing is after backing RTT kickstarter, I got out all my old robotech books and started reading on them again..
One of the guys that I played with started talking about campaign ideas once the game was released.. But now just like most of you.. I don't buy anything assouated
with it... Both companies need to close their doors.
But before that happens I am keeping my fingers crossed the Harmony Gold Sues Palladium Games for damaging their licence on the way that the kickstarter
was handled
As for where the money went.. I imagine Kevin saw it as a windfall being able to pay up things; Here are a few things I think that burned up the money that we shouldn't have paid for.
Lets not forget; Harmony Gold is paid a licencing fee.. I would bet they paid for extending their licences till 2020 or when ever it ends for Harmony Gold. (again something
not to be used for the kickstarter)
Any money you make has taxes..I would hope they know this so they should adjust the price for that difference.
Poor planning on shipping.. Just like anything.. the later you buy it and the faster it gets there the more it costs.. Kevin was convinced that wave one would arrive in time
for Gen Con.. but again didn't take time to consider delays with customs. I think they did not shop prices or do any upfront planning.. just saying "just ship it here"....
Someone mentioned from one update Inventory software.. Having worked in manufacturing, that type of software is an important tool.. but use your own money to buy it.
As many release dates they miss tells me they miss payment dates also.. so I am sure a chunk of money went to catch up on bills
Plus Kevin thought with the "profits" from the kickstarter he could go ahead and spend money on getting some backlogged books published..
Also have a strong feeling that Ninja Division had 98% done but single pose models that would use a zombicide type plastic and Kevin wanted more GW style of model
and plastic; not having any idea how to do that.. plus having to pay of previous designers can take a chunk of money.
so those are my few guesses I am sure there is more...
And possibly they overspent on making extra stock thinking it would sell like hot cakes. Then got confused when it didnt and they got stuck with dead stock.
I ran a session or two of the RPG in my teens, it wasn't great. The combat (as written) takes a lot of time just to establish simple things, and even taking a more narrative approach can rapidly devolve from playing by the rules to creating shared fanfic. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it wasn't what we were looking for.
A few years later, when another group of friends got into Rifts, I eventually played a character that had a Saber Cyclone, which I thought was just the most badass thing, and was fun to play with (not to mention fairly powerful even by Rifts often absurd standards).
It's the usual Palladium system, which includes the caveat of 'with the right group of friends, anything can be made fun, but without a lot of legwork and suspension of disbelief, it can become a situation where you have fun *in spite of the system*, rather than because of it.
I ran a robotech club in high school. The meetings were annouced over the PA and everything. We played the hell out of the RPG. I actually kind of miss those days, really fun games.
KTG17 wrote:I played the old Robotech RPG in high school for a bit.
Embarrassing, really.
Alpharius wrote:Why, what did you do during those RPG sessions?
Anything involving Lynn Minmei real or imagined is sufficiently embarrassing..
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swabby wrote: I ran a robotech club in high school. The meetings were annouced over the PA and everything. We played the hell out of the RPG. I actually kind of miss those days, really fun games.
I had a group where we played D&D and AD&D then later an unholy mix of "Rolemaster" or on it's own, James Bond (Hero points were awesome) then some Cyberpunk 2020.
Cyberpunk helped create some ideas for Rifts and Robotech missions of "hacking" into systems treating the virtual encounters as "real life" the software using real life Avatars.
Nothing like giving a new player the use of a Glitterboy or Cyclone to blast the heck out of things but in the game it is "not real".
I found I had to keep borrowing from other systems to "make it work" for what I imagined.
Fun times.
Long way from playing Car Wars or Ogre.
RPG had it's place, I "graduated" to Vampire which seemed to have a mainstream following.
I then moved on to tabletop gaming that pretty much married my model building with war-gaming.
Being chased by "Random Task" in an Austin Mini jumping a drawbridge using 2 hero points to succeed due to failing miserably on a skill roll will always be remembered.
Rifts just had too much immersion breaking clunkiness that seemed to get in the way of a good story.
I don't go on facebook much but I checked today in anticipation of another palladium update with as much content as cotton candy has nutrional value. There seems to be alot of drama there recently egged on by a righteously indignant yet somewhat ignorant Peter Pidrak and to a lesser extent yourself.
While I wholeheartedly agree that people shouldn't crap over posts that are specifically hobby related (unless the poster says something incredibly silly as Peter is wont to do to stir up the nest, get refuted, and then delete the conversation to repost it without comments enabled later), your new rules seem quite loosey goosey in regards to what is allowed and what is ban worthy. When Scott inevitably posts his next content-free can kick of an update, will posters be allowed to ridicule Palladium in that thread? When a new person comes in and asks what they should get next because they're clearly new to the game, is it ok to tell them to not get anything unless they're sure they want to support a dead end product? If they're fine with doing so then I agree that further commentary should stop but is it ok to open their eyes initially? I'm posting this here as it seems like alot of posts disappear in the group recently moreso even than the official forums. For the record, I've never once posted there in the years I've been a member so I'm not one of your problem children but I don't want to get banned with my inaugural post.
I don't go on facebook much but I checked today in anticipation of another palladium update with as much content as cotton candy has nutrional value. There seems to be alot of drama there recently egged on by a righteously indignant yet somewhat ignorant Peter Pidrak and to a lesser extent yourself.
While I wholeheartedly agree that people shouldn't crap over posts that are specifically hobby related (unless the poster says something incredibly silly as Peter is wont to do to stir up the nest, get refuted, and then delete the conversation to repost it without comments enabled later), your new rules seem quite loosey goosey in regards to what is allowed and what is ban worthy. When Scott inevitably posts his next content-free can kick of an update, will posters be allowed to ridicule Palladium in that thread? When a new person comes in and asks what they should get next because they're clearly new to the game, is it ok to tell them to not get anything unless they're sure they want to support a dead end product? If they're fine with doing so then I agree that further commentary should stop but is it ok to open their eyes initially? I'm posting this here as it seems like alot of posts disappear in the group recently moreso even than the official forums. For the record, I've never once posted there in the years I've been a member so I'm not one of your problem children but I don't want to get banned with my inaugural post.
Look Warboss,
There is a difference between berating and talking about PB's stupid crap and then jumping on anyone that has any appearance of being positive or enjoying RRT because you are pissed. That line is not very wishy washy but is pretty much common sense. Too many of us, including myself want PB to just go away, but immediately taking a gak on others that do not feel the same or because you feel it advances the war against PB is not OK. That is pretty much AntiFa like work in action. You cannot immediately look to shut others down because their opinions are contrary to yours. They might be jerks, they might deserve it but free speech honestly means we are all allowed to express AND respect other opinions. Instantly trolling anything appearing pro-PB shows an overzealousness, lack of character, or both. Rache seems to do that repeatedly. He typically does it politely but he does it just the same.
I'm also just real tired of all the trolling. My stance on booting people is way more open than it was because my apathy towards anything RRT related has grown a lot.
If someone new comes on we have had way too many people say just outright this all sucks, you will never get anything, and PB are all idiots with little to no tact. You know as well as I do that it is not just what you say but just as if not more important in how you tell someone. That is like telling someone that just had a baby (RRT) that it just died in the nursery. We can tell them but people need to do so as adults and not a large kids. I know with men in general that might be asking a lot some times but I am still asking for it.
Fair enough.. except for that last part. Negative criticism has its place IMO in the discussion of such a horribly mismanaged massive project. While it looks like Peter Pidrak (never interacted with him personally) is a great hobbyist, I don't think he has the temperment to be even a mediocre admin/moderator for the group. He seems to purposely at worst (or much less likely ignorantly at best) stir the pot, get served a heaping dose of humble pie, and then delete everything inconvient in a very Ruiz sort of way. It's a bad combination for someone that has the power to boot folks permanently from a group. Rache Bartmoss (is that person here on dakka?) does seem incessantly negative and you should put him/her on a time out when they crap on an unrelated thread as well. If those two are the focal point trouble makers, remove admin powers permanently for the former and put the later on a time out for 30 days with a permanent ban as needed in the future. Coming down hard on only one side of the problem doesn't do you or the group any good in the long run. If Peter can't handle posting his hobby content without 1984 Big Brother style power to edit afterthefact what is said then he shouldn't be a mod. If Rache can't limit him/herself to complaining about Palladium only in appropriate threads without repeating himself within the same thread repeatedly, then he/she doesn't deserve to be a member. There are two sides to that coin.
Hmmm, funny to see a comment about Facebook here and various negativity.
I admit recently I deleted the FB app from my phone for a bit to take a break: I find I am still taking all this too seriously.
I can understand Mike wanting to keep a more positive spin on things... it is his managed forum so take it or leave it.
I find I do not always agree with everyone here but at least have to acknowledge their reasons.
Just like how Alpharius may have to thump us for getting too off topic.
I have experienced some delays on my new RRT "models" but am oddly excited: PB may not have completely killed my liking for wee little Robotech models.
I’ve never understood the Minmei hate. In fact, one of my favorite parts of Macross & Do You Remember Love is when Rick & Minmei are stuck alone in the innards of the SDF-1. And the songs don’t bother me either.
I never thought we were supposed to like Minmei long term so I find it weird that people hate her so. I thought the whole point was for people to realize Minmei wasn't really worth the effort similar to Daisy in the Great Gatsby.
Stormonu wrote: I’ve never understood the Minmei hate. In fact, one of my favorite parts of Macross & Do You Remember Love is when Rick & Minmei are stuck alone in the innards of the SDF-1. And the songs don’t bother me either.
My recollection is that the Japanese songs are better than the English ones. And since you mention DYRL, presumably you're referencing at least some of those.
Of course, the Japanese tend to take that whole "pop songs in cartoons" thing a lot more seriously than the Americans do. I have a hard time imagining an American team putting someone like May'n as the singing voice of one of the regular characters (unless the series was all about that character).
Stormonu wrote: I’ve never understood the Minmei hate. In fact, one of my favorite parts of Macross & Do You Remember Love is when Rick & Minmei are stuck alone in the innards of the SDF-1. And the songs don’t bother me either.
My recollection is that the Japanese songs are better than the English ones. And since you mention DYRL, presumably you're referencing at least some of those.
...quite a bit, yeah ^^
This...
versus this
Furthermore, Macross' Minnay had a whole lot of songs, whereas Robotech's had like, three, which were repeated over, and over, and over...
You have to remember that Robotech was cheap 80's Saturday morning cartoon fodder put together by HG as cheaply as possible, compared to Macross that actually had effort put into it by the original creators.
Having said that I still have a weak spot for the Robotech version since it's what I watched when I was 6 years old and thought transforming fighter jets with giant space fleet battles were about as cool as it got.
vonjankmon wrote: Having said that I still have a weak spot for the Robotech version since it's what I watched when I was 6 years old and thought transforming fighter jets with giant space fleet battles were about as cool as it got.
Oh there is much agreement here.
I am unsure I would call some of the comments including my own "Minmei hate", some of the most uncomfortable moments in the show was her not having a clue however.
With the love triangle going on with Rick at it's apex, no wonder he was such an angry pilot.
The repetitive songs were a bit painful and Macross is still the better show but we only got to see that later, it was the same kind of "ah-ha" moment when I saw "Gatchaman" after "Battle of the Planets".
I used to use "Zoltar" as a handle for a while... looks a bit more snazzy than "Berg Kattse".
I didn't really ever care for the post Macross Robotech stuff so once I got to see Macross proper I jettisoned the Robotech version from my mind pretty quickly. Part of that is just because I saw Voltron first, so I find its bad translation charms more near and dear.
This was all that was mentioned in the weekly update (stuff on DriveThruRPG):
"FREE 12 highly-detailed, comprehensive Robotech® RPG Tactics™ assembly instructions for all the Wave One mecha and FREE Robotech® RPG Tactics™ color guides are available now.
FREE Robotech® RPG Tactics™ paper game pieces, stat cards, rules and special items – with more coming."
Stormonu wrote: I’ve never understood the Minmei hate. In fact, one of my favorite parts of Macross & Do You Remember Love is when Rick & Minmei are stuck alone in the innards of the SDF-1. And the songs don’t bother me either.
My recollection is that the Japanese songs are better than the English ones. And since you mention DYRL, presumably you're referencing at least some of those.
Of course, the Japanese tend to take that whole "pop songs in cartoons" thing a lot more seriously than the Americans do. I have a hard time imagining an American team putting someone like May'n as the singing voice of one of the regular characters (unless the series was all about that character).
Swabby wrote: No one over here is talking about the significance of all RRT product mentions being removed from the PB weekly update?
Color me surprised.
Plus Kevin mentioned in the last paragraph that he was working hard writing and coordinating stuff from conventions to RTT.. So his hand is still in the pot..
Also Robotech Tactics is still mentioned in the copyright listing ... so there is two...
I must admit I have dropped off looking at the PB weekly... it hurt my head too much.
Them getting any kind of affirmation of people going to their site I do not want to indulge in.
Must be a mixed feeling: really need the stock to sell but do not want anyone to ask about Wave 2 progress.
Swabby wrote: No one over here is talking about the significance of all RRT product mentions being removed from the PB weekly update?
Color me surprised.
I'm not surprised we didn't notice. That thing has been more copy/paste than not for years. How many of us actually give enough of a crap to even look for the few unique (or slightly altered) paragraphs, let alone go hunting into the bowels of the 15 pages of product placement?
I'm a little surprised at the move. Not that I expect RRT was a big seller for them, and I don't think it was that long ago that they had a deep discount going, but presumably they're still sitting on pallets of product, so pulling even the token cursory mentioning is a bit odd.
Unless they DID find a factory that will work for RRT boxes, in which case we'll all be eating a little crow.
John Prins wrote: This was all that was mentioned in the weekly update (stuff on DriveThruRPG):
"FREE 12 highly-detailed, comprehensive Robotech® RPG Tactics™ assembly instructions for all the Wave One mecha and FREE Robotech® RPG Tactics™ color guides are available now.
FREE Robotech® RPG Tactics™ paper game pieces, stat cards, rules and special items – with more coming."
I thought that was the case since Scott was hired? There was the copy/pasted verbatim since 2016 heating up tops on Crackle bs way down in the weekly murmur. Did that disappear?
warboss wrote: I thought that was the case since Scott was hired? There was the copy/pasted verbatim since 2016 heating up tops on Crackle bs way down in the weekly murmur. Did that disappear?
Far as I recall, the change around Scott's appearance was that they weren't going to keep copy/pasting RRT news (yes, yes, "news") in the newsletters, that the KS stuff would be addressed on the KS platform.
But they've been hawking those boxes for ages, and unless they had a shocking increase in demand over the last few months, presumably their stock levels are still nice and high. Actually removing the advertising for the core/expansions/whatever leftover "Limited Edition" models they have, that would be a bit of a departure, at least from what I remember the Newsletters usually having.
Is there not some kind of disposal retailer who might take all the stock? Palladium wouldnt get much for it, but thats still more than the nothing theyre getting now, and the warehouse space its using up.
evilsmurf wrote: Is there not some kind of disposal retailer who might take all the stock? Palladium wouldnt get much for it, but thats still more than the nothing theyre getting now, and the warehouse space its using up.
evilsmurf wrote: Is there not some kind of disposal retailer who might take all the stock? Palladium wouldnt get much for it, but thats still more than the nothing theyre getting now, and the warehouse space its using up.
Is there not some kind of disposal retailer who might take all the stock? Palladium wouldnt get much for it, but thats still more than the nothing theyre getting now, and the warehouse space its using up.
My understanding is excess stock for generic goods (clothing, home goods etc) makes it's way to big closeout stores and any that doesn't sell filters down to cheaper and cheaper places.
I'm not sure that would work for miniatures since it's such a niche market. But I'd love to see RRT next to the register at the dollar store, it's a fitting place for Kev's folly.
It's funny. When I was a kid there was this dollar store esque franchise called Pic N Save. In like 88 they had an entire shelf just full of those Robotech Defenders model kits and Robotech coloring books.
It would be a weird end of the circle moment for me to see RRT end up in the same boat.
On top of the PBWU, looks like Scott missed a sign-of-life check-in for the 9th?
Appears they have gone back to "why even bother" mode for the KS again. Maybe they're ready to finally admit defeat this year?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swabby wrote: It's funny. When I was a kid there was this dollar store esque franchise called Pic N Save. In like 88 they had an entire shelf just full of those Robotech Defenders model kits and Robotech coloring books.
It would be a weird end of the circle moment for me to see RRT end up in the same boat.
Hmm... would that be the definition of a circle jerk?
Stormonu wrote: On top of the PBWU, looks like Scott missed a sign-of-life check-in for the 9th?
Appears they have gone back to "why even bother" mode for the KS again. Maybe they're ready to finally admit defeat this year?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swabby wrote: It's funny. When I was a kid there was this dollar store esque franchise called Pic N Save. In like 88 they had an entire shelf just full of those Robotech Defenders model kits and Robotech coloring books.
It would be a weird end of the circle moment for me to see RRT end up in the same boat.
Hmm... would that be the definition of a circle jerk?
I find it funny on PBWU there no sale or mention on Robotech Tactics Rpg game its all Rift baby. They don't care about Robotech at all right now. Scott missed another update for the Jan 09 2018 which I don't think he care anymore about Robotech Tactics Rpg Kickstarter and by the way most of his updates have nothing to do with the advancement of the Kickstarter anyway . The question now is the rumor about HG dumping PB is coming true? Well see what happen now. Later.
Scott is working hard.. he just had an article in Rifter and that's way more important than to work on something someone has already paid you for...
As for Palladium coming clean.. there is no profit in that... only money to lose.. The sad truth of the matter is I am sure they could have avoided most of
the pain by just doing what was originally planned by Ninja Division. The other thing is the burned backers seem to out number the fan friends left.
2018 the year of kicking the can more down the road... and more free digital products that no one asked for..
And mentioned a few pages back.. another great Macross music is the soundtrack from Macross Plus.. and its a great movie / series..
I have to agree with that, meanwhile I just finished watching Macross Zero again, the action sequences are amongst the best animated ones I have seen.
This really highlights the damage done by Harmony Gold in not allowing the Macross releases and pushing the franchise which was always more deserving of commercial success than the overhyped westernised transformers - my opinion anyway. Who knows if it had of been bigger, palladium would have never got within fifty miles of a license.....yeah what could have been.
In the weird world that is palladium it looks like Kevin has decided to simply ignore RTT and erase it from history, what a complete......fill the blank yourself.
wilycoyote wrote: I have to agree with that, meanwhile I just finished watching Macross Zero again, the action sequences are amongst the best animated ones I have seen.
This really highlights the damage done by Harmony Gold in not allowing the Macross releases and pushing the franchise which was always more deserving of commercial success than the overhyped westernised transformers - my opinion anyway. Who knows if it had of been bigger, palladium would have never got within fifty miles of a license.....yeah what could have been.
In the weird world that is palladium it looks like Kevin has decided to simply ignore RTT and erase it from history, what a complete......fill the blank yourself.
Well, if that's the case, even Kickstarter must declare them in breach of contract, right?
So Scott has missed another self-imposed deadline for an update?
This is now two in a row, yes?
Not looking good.
Though to be fair, it wasn't looking good before this either.
Yup. Just the free character Update was the only one in the last 7 weeks (that one was two weeks late, this one will be three weeks late on Tuesday) since the quasi-finished Bases Update.
Both these have been completely unannounced delays, and that makes the second and third time it's happened. Yes, his first delay was announced (personal matter), but the followup was due later that week, and was posted later the following week instead.
Honestly, I don't know why he bothers. After almost 8 months on the job, there's next to nothing to show for it, despite stating end of 2017 was possible. Any credibility he has is completely shot from lack of information and effectiveness, and keeping punctual simply isn't going to change people's minds. At this point, Updates are rote doing-the-motions. He posts something meaningless or at best tangentially useful, though still heavily in need of revision (bases, force orgs, even the character), and the most important aspect of the project, the production of Wave 2 and the completion of the Kickstarter, is completely ignored.
At this point, all his fortnightly posts do, is on the wound.
Until he can come up with something (anything!) definitive, what's the point?
Genoside07 wrote: At one point courts will see this as fraud.. I wonder if Scott is okay going to prison for Kevin...
Pretty sure Scott would plea bargain to a lesser sentence and place Kevin on the hook. OTOH, Casey and NMI? They'd probably do time for Kevin.
Scott's most memorable mention that I can recall was announcing his Rifts board game while simultaneously mentioning him cleaning up after Kevin's crap... literally. He came to volunteer at an open house and he was sent to clean the employee bathroom. He got the job to figuratively clean up Kevin's messes online in part possibly because he cheerfully did phsyically so in person. Don't doubt his dedication as subsequently evidenced by embarassing himself with 6 months of updates filled with quote shell games, initially uncredited art assets, a tiny yet factually incorrect and typo filled gaming supplement, and stretching a miniscule amount of 3rd party modelling effort to ridiculous proportions. The fanfriend is strong in this one.
I haven’t had a chance to play it yet, but I’ve heard nothing but good things about Scott’s Rifts® board game. It’s a player versus player game that I’m told is a lot of fun to play. I enjoyed chatting with Scott and he was one of the folks who helped Palladium set up and tear down tables and chairs. He also showed up Monday to help us clean up and was kind enough to sweep the floor, clean bathrooms and load and unload gear we had to haul back to Kathy’s and elsewhere.
Edit: Please note that what I find objectionable above is not the act of cleaning a bathroom but that a business owner would tell a long time customer volunteering at their for profit event to do the worst possible job indoors.
Genoside07 wrote: At one point courts will see this as fraud.. I wonder if Scott is okay going to prison for Kevin...
Pretty sure Scott would plea bargain to a lesser sentence and place Kevin on the hook. OTOH, Casey and NMI? They'd probably do time for Kevin.
Scott's most memorable mention that I can recall was announcing his Rifts board game while simultaneously mentioning him cleaning up after Kevin's crap... literally. He came to volunteer at an open house and he was sent to clean the employee bathroom. He got the job to figuratively clean up Kevin's messes online in part possibly because he cheerfully did phsyically so in person. Don't doubt his dedication as subsequently evidenced by embarassing himself with 6 months of updates filled with quote shell games, initially uncredited art assets, a tiny yet factually incorrect and typo filled gaming supplement, and stretching a miniscule amount of 3rd party modelling effort to ridiculous proportions. The fanfriend is strong in this one.
I haven’t had a chance to play it yet, but I’ve heard nothing but good things about Scott’s Rifts® board game. It’s a player versus player game that I’m told is a lot of fun to play. I enjoyed chatting with Scott and he was one of the folks who helped Palladium set up and tear down tables and chairs. He also showed up Monday to help us clean up and was kind enough to sweep the floor, clean bathrooms and load and unload gear we had to haul back to Kathy’s and elsewhere.
Edit: Please note that what I find objectionable above is not the act of cleaning a bathroom but that a business owner would tell a long time customer volunteering at their for profit event to do the worst possible job indoors.
At first I thought you were kidding, or maybe joking?
Someone that is willing to drive from Texas to Michigan; Help out during the convention, then after clean toilets that a mass amount of gamers used.
I think Scott would "pick up the soap" for Kevin.. But I think it is a lot of gamer goggles... Kevin will heavily edit one of his articles, then put it in rifter
and now Scott thinks he is an important figure in the gaming community.. Hence why he continues down that road... as long as Keven has a carrot
in front of him... he will keep going.. Worked for centuries on Mules...
Side Note: Yes, if you come to the Open House and offer to help, you could find yourself collecting garbage, moving tables, mopping floors and scrubbing toilets. So be warned.
Who would ever volunteer to do that? What event organizer in their right mind would require volunteers to do that kind of work?
I guess it was too cold in Michigan for him to be sent up top to retar the roof instead. Again, it's not the act of cleaning the bathroom but rather than Kevin would "value" his most loyal customers that much so as to send them to do the worst possible scut work for free at his paid promotion for his for profit business... and that Scott's fan friend level of dedication to the Cult of Kevin would let him do so without consideration of the above. I guess if you want to break into the gaming industry at Palladium, show up for free at the office with a toilet brush, mop, and smile after Taco Tuesdays.
That does put into perspective both Scott's (in)action as business manager in regards to this kickstarter as measured by progress towards completing remaining rewards as well as his subsequent willingness cover for Kevin with increasingly meaningless and desperate distractions. Additionally, if Kevin "values" his most dedicated fan friend circle source of free labor that much, it's no wonder his treatment of us lowly backers can be classified best IMO as callous disregard given we've *only* given him money.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Iirc....kevin actually solicited before hand for volunteers to help setup. They my have gotten a discount but not likely.
Stormonu wrote: Interestingly, the sale is only on the core game and not the supplement miniatures.
Wonder if the supplement boxes are selling decently as unseen for Battletech?
That could explain the destroids and the valks, but not the zentran stuff.
The officers battlepod is the Marauder unseen mech but I forget how the Zen stuff is packaged, were the normal battle pods sold separately from the officer?
The Marauder is an old favorite of mine because in the pre clan invasion days it was a monster with its two PPC's.
Stormonu wrote: Interestingly, the sale is only on the core game and not the supplement miniatures.
Wonder if the supplement boxes are selling decently as unseen for Battletech?
That could explain the destroids and the valks, but not the zentran stuff.
The officers battlepod is the Marauder unseen mech but I forget how the Zen stuff is packaged, were the normal battle pods sold separately from the officer?
The Marauder is an old favorite of mine because in the pre clan invasion days it was a monster with its two PPC's.
The Btech Marauder is, sadly, half the size of the Glaug. I mean, it's the right shape, but...
More power to you . Personally, as I play on maps, they are too big for me. Maybe I'd think otherwise playing on scenery. As it is, well, I have enough actual 'mechs and destroids to not need them anyways ^^.
OTOH, I was actually thinking about statting the RRT minis for Mobile Suit Skirmish, as I believe they could work pretty well... (hell, one of the guys developing it has "macrossmartin" for handle and Misa Hayase as avatar, so... ).
y'know, that would be an interesting take on Robotech. Rewind the timeline so the SDF-1 crashes on earth about 1939. Some of its tech gets stolen/adopted by the various Allies/Axis powers. At the height of the escalating war, the Zents show up, forcing mankind to unite. The SDF becomes a multinational force (ala Star Blazers/Space Battleship Yamato) thrown into the crucible of battle.
Like the Macross series, the SDF gets thrown into deep space. By the time they return to Earth, the war is over and an uneasy peace exists. The return of the SDF threatens this fragile peace - until the Zents return and attempt to decimate earth.
The SDF finally beats the Zents, but the Earth is decimated in the process. The remainder of the series is the forces of the SDF trying to put the world back together, and make it a better place, fighting the remnants of old earth powers and Zent rebels.
Stormonu wrote: y'know, that would be an interesting take on Robotech. Rewind the timeline so the SDF-1 crashes on earth about 1939. Some of its tech gets stolen/adopted by the various Allies/Axis powers. At the height of the escalating war, the Zents show up, forcing mankind to unite. The SDF becomes a multinational force (ala Star Blazers/Space Battleship Yamato) thrown into the crucible of battle.
Like the Macross series, the SDF gets thrown into deep space. By the time they return to Earth, the war is over and an uneasy peace exists. The return of the SDF threatens this fragile peace - until the Zents return and attempt to decimate earth.
The SDF finally beats the Zents, but the Earth is decimated in the process. The remainder of the series is the forces of the SDF trying to put the world back together, and make it a better place, fighting the remnants of old earth powers and Zent rebels.
When Scott blows a self-imposed Tuesday "Update" Deadline, does he typically follow up on a Tuesday (or a day or two after), or could the "Update" come at any time?
Alpharius wrote: When Scott blows a self-imposed Tuesday "Update" Deadline, does he typically follow up on a Tuesday (or a day or two after), or could the "Update" come at any time?
I suspect there is a trademarked palladium 80's RPG style d100 chart thumbtacked somewhere in the office on what to do when they don't feel like bothering to even try and cover their tracks. In all seriousness, it could be a few days to a few weeks to a few months now that Scotty has a pattern of delays and apparently has picked up (bad) habits from his remote co-"workers".
Alpharius wrote: When Scott blows a self-imposed Tuesday "Update" Deadline, does he typically follow up on a Tuesday (or a day or two after), or could the "Update" come at any time?
I now Morgan has followed this more closely, so he probably has fairly accurate numbers on hand, but off the cuff I'd say that it's a mix of sometimes the follow up isn't put off that long, but sometimes it's just skipped outright and not attended to for a week or two.
It's not a huge sample size, and I'd say the former was more prevalent early on in his tenure, whereas these days he seems more inclined to see a missed target as one to skip or ignore.
Much like Wayne before him, who would frequently have short updates that didn't say much, and apologize for both that and missing expected targets, it seems sensible for Scott to just move to monthly updates, if he intends to keep to them on a regular schedule at all.
When you go half a year with almost nothing to show for the alleged work behind the scenes, maybe it'd be valuable to better conceal how little is actually happening behind the scenes.
When your non-updates are just reminding people every two weeks that this gakshow is ongoing, it might be time for a change of plan.
(not that monthly non-updates would be much better, but it's half as many reminders of this mess, and fewer reasons to have to apologize for missed non-updates, so that's a straight up win)
Not sure if there's an East Coast/West Coast piloted mecha suit rivalry that means Robotech guys and Gundam guys can't get along, but it is worth a look!
Multiple scales supported (I think!) and all of the models are...already available?
Yeah, like Forar said, there's not enough data, or consistency to make a pattern.
This is the third one. And it isn't resolved yet.
The previous (second one) was close enough to two weeks late with no prior notice.
The initial one (first one) was a week late, but differed by having a "Be Back Later" post put up on time, though even the timeframe on that was off (he said later that week, and it was the following week).
Two completed data points don't give any forecast potential.
It could be this coming week (i=i), establishing a monthly Update as the new standard (not something I'd be averse to if there's no more information than what we were getting).
It could be the following week (i=i+1), as he slowly gets more and more Kevin-ish.
It could be the week after that (i=i*2), as he goes into an exponential spiral of not giving a gak about the project, that quite a few backers have succumbed to. There's still a lot of outrage, but there's also some absent (or infrequent) names.
Or, it could just be, like Forar said, a Wayne-esque "ehh, whenever the feth I feel like it, it's not like Kevin will care."
I think the latter is the most likely one.
EDIT : The latest PBWU is up. As expected, no mention of RRT in any meaningful way, no mention of Scott's absence. The only thing of note regarding RRT is Kevin wants someone to host a tournament at the POH. It's hidden deep in the "wanting people to host every other game line", but it's something that only comes about because of Kevin's excessive need to namecheck all of his licenses. A "We need people to host sessions for all our game lines", and he wouldn't have needed to mention it. But Kevin loves him some registered trademarks bs.
Also, PB are going to Adepticon again to "chat and sign books". Not, apparently, to run an event, at a pretty much miniature/wargame-specific convention.
Finally, in news that won't shock anyone, none of the four books slated for a January release just five weeks ago, are going to make it. Now two have been kicked to February, the third to March, and Disavowed has been... umm... disavowed. Completely removed from the schedule. Now, whether that's intentional, or Kevin fething up the copypasta, who knows.
Not sure if there's an East Coast/West Coast piloted mecha suit rivalry that means Robotech guys and Gundam guys can't get along, but it is worth a look!
Multiple scales supported (I think!) and all of the models are...already available?
All the Robotech folks are just pissed that they haven’t gotten new cartoons in 30 years.
Oddly enough, I’ve a huge collection of Gundam mechs - but have only watched a handful of Endless Waltz episodes. I feel like without the background of having seen these things in action, I don’t much “get into” wanting to do a game.
As for Scott, I agree the updates probably ought to go to monthly, but it’d be a lot more helpful if they contained some progress or substance.
Finally, I WANT THAT TRANSFORMING MITCHELL BOMBER!!!
How many people do you think would be needed to sign a petition for the owners of Adepticon to take notice and drop PB from their line up, 1000, 5000 or 10,000 signatures!?
Original Timmy wrote: How many people do you think would be needed to sign a petition for the owners of Adepticon to take notice and drop PB from their line up, 1000, 5000 or 10,000 signatures!?
None.
The only way Adepticon would remove PB from the lineup, is if there was solid evidence that not doing so would hurt their bottom line more than removing them. A petition, especially an online petition, is meaningless in that regard.
Because it would have to be people (and advertisers) willing to attend Adepticon, that refuse to do so explicitly because of Palladium's attendance. And I can't think that'd be more than a handful (and I mean that literally, five or less actual people), that would make that decision. People who would be going simply aren't going to cancel the decision to go to Adepticon, just because PB have a small booth there (that probably loses PB money overall).
So why should Adepticon care about a petition that is 95+% people who weren't going anyway, and the remaining percentage are mostly people that are going regardless of what management do?
I wonder if Palladium's response that first year when they were called out for not supporting their new minis game at conventions in general and adepticon specifically was to sign a multiyear booth deal paid for with the robotech slush fund. Does adepticon offer that to exhibitors? I just can't see why they keep going there year after year when they obviously don't care and have nothing new to show other than to keep up the pretense (poorly) like with the "updates".
warboss wrote: I wonder if Palladium's response that first year when they were called out for not supporting their new minis game at conventions in general and adepticon specifically was to sign a multiyear booth deal paid for with the robotech slush fund. Does adepticon offer that to exhibitors? I just can't see why they keep going there year after year when they obviously don't care and have nothing new to show other than to keep up the pretense (poorly) like with the "updates".
It being pointless was what I was thinking when I saw they were going again. If you're shopping RRT (running events, selling stock, introducing new works), that's fair enough. But going with nothing new to release in three full years, and not hosting/sponsoring any events, just seems like a massive waste of time and money. You might make some money on the RPG's, but I can't see it covering costs. Of course, it'd help if they used Kickstarter funds to attend (which I would argue is misappropriation regardless), but then claimed RPG profits as a separate income stream (so the money goes back into general revenue rather than Kickstarter funds. Because that's how low my opinion is of Kevin is. There's very little that would shock me about how this project is being mismanaged. Hopefully if the courts get involved, they'll see through any PBbs.
Anyways, we know 2014 had Ninja Division in attendance, but no Palladium presence.
We know 2015 was the "big push", with all hands on deck. Jeff Burke was even there!
But it looks like 2016 and 2017 were just the B-team (Wayne Smith, Chuck Walton and Jeff Ruiz in 2016, and what looks to be the same again in 2017 (with Ruiz looking unenthusiastic), with volunteer Dan Rains doing demo duty.)
So at least Kevin knows it's not worth his time. Or he's not being honored as a "special guest".
I know that with the small, medium, and larger conventions I work with, it's common practice (with the one company who runs them all) to offer companies at one year's event first dibs on space for next year. I'm not saying everyone does it that way, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was common; knock a little off the fee to guarantee a solid number of returns and not have to worry if next year will be a ghost town, or fight to fill booth space until the last minute.
Which is to say that as long as they're signing the paperwork and putting down the deposit, I suspect that little of the existing controversy is likely to get them shown the door officially.
That said, I'm with Morgan in that I'm curious what the exchange is like on that. As I said, I've worked some small scale events. I know what it's like to have a booth fee be measured as a fraction of what we pay for larger events, but then to also discover that the attendance is also marginal, and the sales are minimal. At the end of the day you don't want to lug piles of product (be they chocolates, books, or dusty RRT sets) out to a venue, set it up, and have multiple people sitting on their hands for most of the day. There can be wiggle room in making an event worthwhile, even if the sales barely break even against materials and booth costs, as long as the networking is substantial (which can be a fuzzy thing, but since my friend does wedding cakes, one good contact can make up for a gakky show pretty handily).
Basically, if you're only paying $200 for a booth (hypothetically, I have no idea what Adepticon booths cost), only making like $500 is likely a giant waste of time. Maybe they sell a couple dozen books to people with nostalgia for the company, or a few RRT kits to Battletech players, and it balances out, I don't know, I've never been, but that's the kind of math to work out behind the scenes.
Some events seem to get them onboard just by having a nod thrown Kevin's way, as was shown in the past when PB made a big deal of attending shows that had an attendance history measured in the hundreds or thousands, compared to the hundreds of thousands (million+?) that a show like Gencon generates.
Very much a 'medium fish in a little pond' versus a 'little fish in a giant pond' situation.
Not that this really means anything, but as someone who has been volunteering at conventions for the last half a decade or so, it's something that I have a little experience with.
Original Timmy wrote: How many people do you think would be needed to sign a petition for the owners of Adepticon to take notice and drop PB from their line up, 1000, 5000 or 10,000 signatures!?
None.
The only way Adepticon would remove PB from the lineup, is if there was solid evidence that not doing so would hurt their bottom line more than removing them. A petition, especially an online petition, is meaningless in that regard.
Because it would have to be people (and advertisers) willing to attend Adepticon, that refuse to do so explicitly because of Palladium's attendance. And I can't think that'd be more than a handful (and I mean that literally, five or less actual people), that would make that decision. People who would be going simply aren't going to cancel the decision to go to Adepticon, just because PB have a small booth there (that probably loses PB money overall).
So why should Adepticon care about a petition that is 95+% people who weren't going anyway, and the remaining percentage are mostly people that are going regardless of what management do?
Thats a fair point, if its not going to hurt their "bottom dollar" why take any notice, which is sad but the way the world runs now(maybe it always has just more widespread), money over principles!
Like its been said lets just hope the sales they make going to them doesnt cover their costs
Some events seem to get them onboard just by having a nod thrown Kevin's way, as was shown in the past when PB made a big deal of attending shows that had an attendance history measured in the hundreds or thousands, compared to the hundreds of thousands (million+?) that a show like Gencon generates.
This is true. The two years Kevin was at Anime North in Toronto he was somehow an "Honoured Guest" and even got some award for supporting anime......
Last Year? The booth was run by a freelancer and one of the con organizers who frankly is enamoured with being connected to Kevin for some reason....and for a couple of hours they both disappeared leaving my friend Rob, who was only there to do RRT demos nothing more, essentially running the booth he wasn't even really part of. Not a single staffer of PB was there at all and the freelancer used part of the booth to hock his 3d design and printing business as he is a mechanical engineer.
Jaymz, did he have to buy his own ticket in order to do free labor for Palladium? If not then he got off easier than schmucks who volunteer at the Palladium's on site open house.
POH Volunteers Needed
We will also need volunteers to help us set up, admissions (confirming I.D. and handing out badges), emptying trash cans, store/sales assistance/restocking shelves, gopher, general assistance, parking lot, etc. You’ll get a volunteer’s badge and select perks that may include a product discount percentage commensurate with the amount of work and hours put in. NOTE: If you volunteer, please show up. Volunteers have to purchase their own admission ticket.
Yes, you have to PAY Kevin for the privilege of potentially cleaning his toilet. Lol.
Yup, copy/pasted straight from this week's news. Why? Was it different in the past? I recall you mentioning going to it (and iirc getting chewed out for lack of support or somesuch after the fact). I think that was the year of the infamous informal you didn't even know you were voting poll where Kevin concluded 98% of fans were happy with the status quo at Palladium.
I've never been. Just wanted to make sure that was this year's as that's pretty much the SOP of previous ones.
"Do all the gak work and you MIGHT get a discount on merch but you have to pay your own way onto the property to do so"
I mean that's just bs man. A number of people are travelling to this ego stroke of an event and they can't even guarantee a discount level or wave the fee of entry for those who basically do janitorial work for free?
Funny reading how these "fan-friends" are treated.
Anywhere I have worked we keep the rule "Do not inconvenience the customer."
I figure the same thing applies for volunteers and contract / part-timers.
The logical consequence for either group is they stop coming by.
I read the PB update and was astonished at how stupid petty they sound regarding having volunteers pay admission. Really? You have people donating their time and to do so...you MAKE them pay their way in for that "privilege"? What the F is wrong with you PB? What's more astonishing is the dopes that will think that what they are doing is "fair" or part of the "experience". Ridiculous.
CaptKaruthors wrote: I read the PB update and was astonished at how stupid petty they sound regarding having volunteers pay admission. Really? You have people donating their time and to do so...you MAKE them pay their way in for that "privilege"? What the F is wrong with you PB? What's more astonishing is the dopes that will think that what they are doing is "fair" or part of the "experience". Ridiculous.
Narcissist.
"It is all about me." The sooner you understand this, the better you will get along with Kevin.
Why should he pay your way?
You want to bask in his favor right?
You should be paying him for the privilege.
CaptKaruthors wrote:I read the PB update and was astonished at how stupid petty they sound regarding having volunteers pay admission. Really? You have people donating their time and to do so...you MAKE them pay their way in for that "privilege"? What the F is wrong with you PB? What's more astonishing is the dopes that will think that what they are doing is "fair" or part of the "experience". Ridiculous.
Plenty of conventions have volunteers but they're typically assigned light duty work *ESPECIALLY* if they're not comped for their badges. If they get entry for free then they might do some physical labor like setting up chairs but not the kind of stuff that might raise eyebrows like scrubbing toilets. It takes a special kind of person/company to make them both pay for the privelege to do the worst kind of work potentially.
jaymz wrote:I've never been. Just wanted to make sure that was this year's as that's pretty much the SOP of previous ones.
"Do all the gak work and you MIGHT get a discount on merch but you have to pay your own way onto the property to do so"
I mean that's just bs man. A number of people are travelling to this ego stroke of an event and they can't even guarantee a discount level or wave the fee of entry for those who basically do janitorial work for free?
I must have been conflating you with a bit of Jorel then. I know he got chewed out as well for not clapping hard enough but I could have sworn that you said you participated in an OH poll once. Sorry.
Talizvar wrote:Funny reading how these "fan-friends" are treated.
Anywhere I have worked we keep the rule "Do not inconvenience the customer."
I figure the same thing applies for volunteers and contract / part-timers.
The logical consequence for either group is they stop coming by.
I guess that's why they're not referred to as customers but rather the supposedly superlative fan-friends moniker. They obviously don't stop coming by given their ongoing financial support of a company that breaks pretty much every public promise (whether crowdfunding reward or posted release date) they make and asks them to do in person what no other company would dream of.
Well, Still nothing from Scott working from his home office in Texas... Maybe to sick to make it to his laptop.. But I am sure he will be at the Open House
Also.. It makes my brain hurt to think someone would drive from Texas to Michigan, pay to attend.. hotel, etc. run demos and stay behind to clean up .
Then literally clean the toilets for them. Just hope that Kevin doesn't ask Scott to knock off every RRT backer... I think he might try it...
both disappeared leaving my friend Rob, who was only there to do RRT demos nothing more, essentially running the booth he wasn't even really part of..
Your friend Rob sound like a RRT supporter.. Now that it's going into it's Fifth year.. What does he feel about the game now?? I know there is pocket groups that are doing
their own home brew game version and proxy models... But I paid the most of any other Kickstarter I backed and still want the figures I am owed..
He's not too happy. I think he bought a showdown or a reckless.
He's more a lover of robotech in general than rrt specifically but he actually really likes the game itself and was the winner of both Gencon tourneys iirc.
I feel for him. Before I gave up he and I were talking about joining forces to try and do something for a local community but alas.....
Its pretty common for cons to charge volunteers for badges, but then reimburse them after they perform the volunteer hours if there is a deal to work so many hours for a free badge.
Of course, many of the bigger cons are running into labor department trouble with unpaid volunteers since the labor department views them as contract employees tat need to be comoensated and taxed.
Except, as you can see, PB plans to compensate the volunteer janitorial stockboy sales assistants by MAYBE giving them a discount on product that, judging by who typically attends, they already have and do not need additional copies of.
jaymz wrote: Except, as you can see, PB plans to compensate the volunteer janitorial stockboy sales assistants by MAYBE giving them a discount on product that, judging by who typically attends, they already have and do not need additional copies of.
Maybe they do it for the swag? Like all those cheap mugs and t-shirts? A shirt that reads 'I cleaned PB's toilets at the open house and all I got was this t-shirt' seems oddly appropriate.
I paid my own way to Gencon last year, and volunteered at the FFP booth to demo Shadows of Brimstone for a couple of hours across that weekend. I did it entirely because I love the game and figured that sharing it with people was a good way to include some dedicated time for SoB gaming and help out a company I think is awesome. Not perfect, lest some decide to use that as a jumping off point, but pretty awesome all the same. So I can't entirely throw stones on 'lawl what kind of volunteer does unpaid work!', though they did give me a discount on store purchases, and one of the FFP guys walked me around and gave me a bunch of product for free. So even without expecting it, I felt my time was compensated for, despite that not being necessary or a precursor to my participation.
When I help at various local conventions with my friend's booth, she buys the passes, and always makes sure I get hooked up with some snacks (brings lunches, makes sure I get some goodies from the product, etc). Doesn't stop me from buying stuff as well, because she's a small business owner and as much as I appreciate her generosity, I don't want her intentionally putting dents in her bottom line either.
This year I'll be volunteering with FFP full time at Gencon, and will be subject to the privileges and responsibilities as laid out ahead of the event by them, and negotiated in a series of very reasonable emails. Thanks to having a pile of credit card points banked, it'll cost me about $100 for the round trip flight, and aside from that and walking around money (Dwarven Forge booth, I'm looking at you), I'm pretty much covered. They're paying for my pass, hotel room, lunches, dinners (I usually skip any substantial breakfast at these things), I'll have the opportunity to buy product at a discount, and will get time to wander around as well, as we all need breaks eventually.
So, while I do share in the sense of 'how outrageous!' that PB would expect volunteers to pay for their passes, I'm also not blind to many such arrangements being common as well. It also needs more context. Sure, a little nod and a dusty Rifter for someone who is a volunteer (for a single 2 hour session) versus someone driving out on their own dime to run 30+ hours of epic campaign across the weekend.
Add in the... frankly unhealthy relationship some of these people have with the company, what seems even quasi reasonable to us might seem like an outright bargain to some of them. Think back to the vocalist of the white knights, not just the supporters, but those who harshly attack even the mildest of critique. We know that there are sorts who are so passionate that they'll eagerly pay for the right to give away a free weekend, even if they're not quite so common in the KS comments anymore.
To be clear, I'm not defending the practice, I'm simply sharing of my experiences (past, present, and future) as a convention/booth volunteer. I'll be working the Toronto booth for 3 days in March at out Comic Con, under the expectations noted above.
Frankly, those periods involve my taking vacation time from work, and are harder/longer hours than I put in at my day job. Because it's for a friend, and it's something I enjoy, and helps a business I'm passionate about.
Forar wrote: I paid my own way to Gencon last year, and volunteered at the FFP booth to demo Shadows of Brimstone for a couple of hours across that weekend. I did it entirely because I love the game and figured that sharing it with people was a good way to include some dedicated time for SoB gaming and help out a company I think is awesome. Not perfect, lest some decide to use that as a jumping off point, but pretty awesome all the same. So I can't entirely throw stones on 'lawl what kind of volunteer does unpaid work!', though they did give me a discount on store purchases, and one of the FFP guys walked me around and gave me a bunch of product for free. So even without expecting it, I felt my time was compensated for, despite that not being necessary or a precursor to my participation.
When I help at various local conventions with my friend's booth, she buys the passes, and always makes sure I get hooked up with some snacks (brings lunches, makes sure I get some goodies from the product, etc). Doesn't stop me from buying stuff as well, because she's a small business owner and as much as I appreciate her generosity, I don't want her intentionally putting dents in her bottom line either.
This year I'll be volunteering with FFP full time at Gencon, and will be subject to the privileges and responsibilities as laid out ahead of the event by them, and negotiated in a series of very reasonable emails. Thanks to having a pile of credit card points banked, it'll cost me about $100 for the round trip flight, and aside from that and walking around money (Dwarven Forge booth, I'm looking at you), I'm pretty much covered. They're paying for my pass, hotel room, lunches, dinners (I usually skip any substantial breakfast at these things), I'll have the opportunity to buy product at a discount, and will get time to wander around as well, as we all need breaks eventually.
So, while I do share in the sense of 'how outrageous!' that PB would expect volunteers to pay for their passes, I'm also not blind to many such arrangements being common as well. It also needs more context. Sure, a little nod and a dusty Rifter for someone who is a volunteer (for a single 2 hour session) versus someone driving out on their own dime to run 30+ hours of epic campaign across the weekend.
Add in the... frankly unhealthy relationship some of these people have with the company, what seems even quasi reasonable to us might seem like an outright bargain to some of them. Think back to the vocalist of the white knights, not just the supporters, but those who harshly attack even the mildest of critique. We know that there are sorts who are so passionate that they'll eagerly pay for the right to give away a free weekend, even if they're not quite so common in the KS comments anymore.
To be clear, I'm not defending the practice, I'm simply sharing of my experiences (past, present, and future) as a convention/booth volunteer. I'll be working the Toronto booth for 3 days in March at out Comic Con, under the expectations noted above.
Frankly, those periods involve my taking vacation time from work, and are harder/longer hours than I put in at my day job. Because it's for a friend, and it's something I enjoy, and helps a business I'm passionate about.
Forar, I don't think anyone would consider your post to be defending Palladium's antics as what you describe and what Palladium does are similar in name only. In your case, you're getting several hundred dollars worth of renumeration for your substantial efforts when you consider the value of half a room in a mostly sold out city during a big event plus meals and such plus meals, and badge. Additionally, you are asked to do work commensurate with the expectation of a convention volunteer. A Palladium volunteer pays for all of his or her expenses, potentially does scut work that the employees don't want to do, and gets a t-shirt as thanks. It's an apples to rotten tomatoes comparison when you look at the details.
Palladium volunteers literally end up in the red before lifting a finger because the price of the badge is more than any normal value of a promotional t-shirt before considering travel expenses. They're not getting some sort of renumeration for their efforts like in your case but rather a discount on the price they pay for the priveledge of doing free labor for Palladium. And also please consider that Palladium's open house is an on site wholey owned event operated in their normal paid for space that they keep 100% of the profits from unlike your conventions where exhibitors are subject to many more fees and expenses before the doors ever open. Yes, both can be considered labors of love done for for-profit companies but in one case the free labor is much more fairly reciprocated than the other.
There is nothing wrong for volunteering at gaming conventions and liking Palladium games.. but I feel with their track record someone
might get there, promised something and get something very different.
Little off topic but I feel something like this could happen at the open house...
I remember a few years back I volunteered at a local gaming convention. Contacted the organizer that was actually a part of a college
gaming club that was the sponsor. Never attended the meetings because of the drive distance but kept in email contact with the guy up to the
week before the convention. The agreement was free admission for Saturday for running three games
This was about the time Zombies!!! was super hot and I had contacted Twilight Creations about convention prize support for my games. They said
could not send product directly to me but would confirm with my contact and send it directly to the convention... So I planned to run sessions of
their game all day Saturday.
Day of the convention after driving a few hours; I get to the front desk and ask for my contact by name.. I was told he was no longer involded
with the convention. I told them I was there to run games and they said they had no record of me but my games where listed on the board.
Plus; I would have to pay admission and get free admission next year for running the games. I told them If I pay to get in.. I am playing games,
not running them. They had very few games listed on the sign up board and a number of them had cancelled.. They finally agreed to the
free admission and I asked if the Twilight creation prize support stuff that I had special ordered was... they said only prize support was donated
by the local game store. No one even attempted to look and there was a number of them just sitting at the booth
I ran the games and had fun... even had a few buy the game the same day from the FLGS; The prize support they gave me was a clearance
card game about cows... Next table over that was being ran by one of the organizers.. you guessed it.. a Twilight creations T-Shirt..
Found out later from the FLGS owner that TC had really came threw and sent a number of things.. but during the last weeks before the convention
there was a lot of in fighting in the game club and a bunch of the main people left...
A few years later the convention at the college ended after decades of it being there...
Back on topic... Another Tuesday past... looks like we are back to radio silence..
warboss wrote: Forar, I don't think anyone would consider your post to be defending Palladium's antics as what you describe and what Palladium does are similar in name only. In your case, you're getting several hundred dollars worth of renumeration for your substantial efforts when you consider the value of half a room in a mostly sold out city during a big event plus meals and such plus meals, and badge. Additionally, you are asked to do work commensurate with the expectation of a convention volunteer. A Palladium volunteer pays for all of his or her expenses, potentially does scut work that the employees don't want to do, and gets a t-shirt as thanks. It's an apples to rotten tomatoes comparison when you look at the details.
Palladium volunteers literally end up in the red before lifting a finger because the price of the badge is more than any normal value of a promotional t-shirt before considering travel expenses. They're not getting some sort of renumeration for their efforts like in your case but rather a discount on the price they pay for the priveledge of doing free labor for Palladium. And also please consider that Palladium's open house is an on site wholey owned event operated in their normal paid for space that they keep 100% of the profits from unlike your conventions where exhibitors are subject to many more fees and expenses before the doors ever open. Yes, both can be considered labors of love done for for-profit companies but in one case the free labor is much more fairly reciprocated than the other.
Oh, I wasn't particularly worried about people thinking I was defending PB's actions, just thought I'd share my experiences. As I read the comments about it, I had a welling urge to lay into them as well, but then thought I'd take a step back and contrast my experiences with what is here.
It certainly doesn't line up perfectly, and there's a difference between "you need to have a badge to get into Gencon to participate on a minor level" (like I did last year) versus "you need to pay your own way for an event that is in our space and entirely run by us".
Agreed, scrubbing toilets (especially after a couple dozen people were putting them through their paces) is not something I'd consider work for a volunteer that I wanted to keep around, but my leadership style has generally been 'what's the worst job on the list, if nobody else has an inexplicable reason to take it, I'll do it myself, if not volunteer ahead of time', so it just wouldn't occur to me.
It was more that I realized there are a number of ways I give up time or labour or other resources willingly for conventions, but you're right that it's not a perfect comparison, and I certainly hadn't intended to indicate as much.
Since we’re sharing experiences, I have done volunteer DM’ing at two local cons in return for either a reduced or free entry fee. In both cases, had to pay up front then got money back once I turned in my work/gaming sheet to prove I’d fulilled my end of the agreement.
However, from what I’ve read of PB’s Open House, Kevin’s speil seems to have been they are essentially run as a way to pay their basic bills and thus they are resistant to giving discounts because its meant to be a donation to keeping them in business in return for a peek behind the curtain, so to speeak. I’m not against that sort of thing, if at least the people coming are made aware of this and want to volunteer their help anyway.
But being typical PB, they take it too far without thinking twice. Really, getting your volunteers to clean your company restrooms - after they’ve been visited by maybe a hundred or so partying individuals ... that feels like it crosses some sort of line of taking advantage of volunteers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am suddenly reminded of the worst volunteer work I got myself into....
When I first met my future wife, she was involved in the SCA. That first year I met her, they were running a local event - Gulf Wars II. At the time, I’d known her (and the group) about 2 weeks. The field where the weekend war to take place was a cow/horse pasture and needed to be cleaned of manure. We’re talking a couple acres with droppings withing a few steps of each other. Without even blinking, I took the shovel and wheelbarrow and cleaned the field. By myself.
Looking back, that was literally a pretty gakky thing to have been asked to do after being with them such a short time. Talk about drawing the short straw.
Ah cow manure...the scent of money for a country boy. I spent most of my teen years putting up hay in the summer and slogging thru foot deep manure in barn lots in the winter
I guess woke up on the wrong side of the bed... I know it won't go very far but I wrote a letter to kick-starter about
if they don't get involved in pushing this kick-starter to complete they will most likely see new government regulations added to their company because of it.
Next I am working on a letter to Harmony gold stating that my view that this kick-starter has damaged their image and licence
After that I am planning to contact my local state repetitive; and states attorney; reference what Washington and other states have done in the past
for kick-starters that stole money.. because at this point there is no RRT
It will make me fell better and maybe enough sparks it will start a fire under someone...
Genoside07 wrote: I guess woke up on the wrong side of the bed... I know it won't go very far but I wrote a letter to kick-starter about
if they don't get involved in pushing this kick-starter to complete they will most likely see new government regulations added to their company because of it.
Next I am working on a letter to Harmony gold stating that my view that this kick-starter has damaged their image and licence
After that I am planning to contact my local state repetitive; and states attorney; reference what Washington and other states have done in the past
for kick-starters that stole money.. because at this point there is no RRT
It will make me fell better and maybe enough sparks it will start a fire under someone...
I applaud your efforts. Let us know how it goes. I long ago contacted HG about this boondoggle and got a sympathetic yet apathetic pat on the back. They know... but they just don't care enough to act.
Stormonu wrote: Send a letter to Tatsunoko and Big West as well, and let them know that these US companies (HG & PB) are destroying US interest in their product.
Maybe that's their dastardly plan?
"Yeah, as you can see Mr Tatsunoko, after years of willful neglect by the previous holder of the IP, and a woefully mismanaged Kickstarter by an approved sub-licensor, the value of Robotech in the United States is tanked at an all time low. Therefore, we offer only a token licensing fee, because noone else is likely to take it."
"But Mr Yune, YOU are the one who tanked it!"
"Semantics! Do you want our shiny nickle, or not?"
Yune: Siembeida, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
Siembeida: I think so, Yune, but... I'm not sure how many fans will let me cram a Rifter up their ass, and act as both the courier AND the parcel.
Yune: We must prepare for tomorrow night.
Siembeida: Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?
Yune: The same thing we do every night, Siembeida - try to keep our IP!
Chorus: They're Siembeida, They're Siembeida and the Yune Yune Yune Yune Yune!
I applaud your efforts. Let us know how it goes. I long ago contacted HG about this boondoggle and got a sympathetic yet apathetic pat on the back. They know... but they just don't care enough to act.
After the Carmen "Terrible day" Update last February, I emailed HG about it. I was quite upset about the whole thing personally since Suicide is is something I think shouldn't be used as a KS update. Especially in the manner of blaming backers.
HG was pretty indifferent, saying they hope Carmen gets well. Not a word about how deeply effecting Kevin's words could have been on someone who is a survivor of suicide or has a mental illness like depression.
Real talk; if a Robotech Live Action Movie actually happens, I'll probably see it in theatres. It will be a contentious and conflicting affair, but I won't let this bullgak entirely sour a series I have loved for something over 30 years. Even with HG's bullgak, even with the complications in the courts and the merchandising shenanigans.
Getting to see a Fighter convert to Guardian convert to Battloid on screen in IMAX (and possibly 3D) is a Bucket List item.
But to offset the Karmic negative I might email PB a picture of me giving one of my old Rifters the middle finger (I have one or two still around somewhere on the shelves).
I have to be honest, a Robotech Live Action movie scares me. I just can't see it ending well with how HG so readily green lights half-assed projects whenever it tries to do things.
For one thing, I imagine they won't use F-14 tomcats for the veritechs (since with latest HG vs. Tatsunoko they can't license it), so we'd either see Alphas or some sort of strange F-22 replacement that will just look ...odd. And the CGI probably will be about as animate/active as in the Shadow Chronicles - cringeworthy.
That doesn't even speak to the acting, which knowing Sony is going to be Fantastic Four levels of bad casting & acting.
I'm imaging it would end up being something along the lines of the live action Space Battleship Yamato. Compared to the likes of the later(?) animated Space Battleship Yamato 2199, the live action movie makes me want to bleach my eyes.
After having watched Macross Zero and Frontier - and comparing it to Shadow Chronicles, I can't see anything coming out through HG that wouldn't just make me shudder and further ruin my enjoyment of Robotech.
I have seen some folks on Youtube put together some decent "live action" clips, but honestly they are lovers of the IP and will put a 1000% more love into their work than HG will care to lift a finger over. And Sony has no attachment to the IP (like with FF), so they'd hardly have any incentive to try and remain true to the source material.
Stormonu wrote: I have to be honest, a Robotech Live Action movie scares me. I just can't see it ending well with how HG so readily green lights half-assed projects whenever it tries to do things.
For one thing, I imagine they won't use F-14 tomcats for the veritechs (since with latest HG vs. Tatsunoko they can't license it), so we'd either see Alphas or some sort of strange F-22 replacement that will just look ...odd. And the CGI probably will be about as animate/active as in the Shadow Chronicles - cringeworthy.
That doesn't even speak to the acting, which knowing Sony is going to be Fantastic Four levels of bad casting & acting.
I'm imaging it would end up being something along the lines of the live action Space Battleship Yamato. Compared to the likes of the later(?) animated Space Battleship Yamato 2199, the live action movie makes me want to bleach my eyes.
After having watched Macross Zero and Frontier - and comparing it to Shadow Chronicles, I can't see anything coming out through HG that wouldn't just make me shudder and further ruin my enjoyment of Robotech.
I have seen some folks on Youtube put together some decent "live action" clips, but honestly they are lovers of the IP and will put a 1000% more love into their work than HG will care to lift a finger over. And Sony has no attachment to the IP (like with FF), so they'd hardly have any incentive to try and remain true to the source material.
I just think it would be a disaster.
Yeah, I think the Star Blazers movie would have been better if they made at least two films and spread the story out more instead of cramming it all into one.
As for a live action RT, if they don't use F14s I'd rather see an original design for veritechs in fighter mode than the F22s. I think using the F22s would make them end up looking similar to Starscream from the Transformer movies.
No real mention of Robotech (they want GM's, and they're still bleating about DTRPG stuff).
Also no mention of Scott. So it's unlikely something untowards* has happened, because Kevin is not afraid to whip out sick/family issues/broken limbs/attempted suicide as an excuse for absence, appeal for sympathy and in one case, assignment of blame.
* The exception being firing. If that happened, he might be holding off, so that he can throw Scott under the bus instead of actually having to do the Updates himself.
As old beetle over on the Kickstarter commentary mentions, in Scott's Palladium In-Staff Profile states, "Scott's role at Palladium Books is to help manage the day-to-day business affairs of the company, as well as to run the social media and marketing campaigns. He will help Palladium adhere to its product release schedule starting in July of 2017"
We know that he hasn't done gak about RRT. Did you also know he also apparently has done jack with PB's other products? Atlanteans was at the printers in July, so he can hardly receive credit for that. They got Dark Designs out a month later. So maybe he influenced that. But since then, PB haven't published anything but Rifters, and everything has been delayed repeatedly.
Stormonu wrote: Did Scott just switch to a monthly update cycle and not bother to tell anyone?
Not unless he plans on posting on Sunday.
Four weeks from the last Update would have been this past Tuesday. One month from the last Update is the 28th of January.
That the last Update explicitly states January 9th, and that it's been hella ignored, with no comment regarding a delay or change of schedule from himself, Kevin, or any official account.
The last mention of Scott was in Kevin's NYE address in the Murmurs.
"I would like to thank my hardworking staff, Wayne, Julius, Kathy, Chuck, Alex and newcomer, Scott Gibbons. They all care so much and work so hard. I know Scott in particular wishes he could do so much more."
So, while that doesn't exclude Scott from having been fired since, it does indicate that he was still in Kevin's good graces less than a month ago.
Now granted, if Scott has no new information (which seems likely), he may be holding off on putting up a post that doesn't at least have the veneer of "something". Because that's just asking for people to get riled up. Sure, people are still angry, but volume of hostility increases just after an Update, where as the day to day anger is much more manageable.
Well, looking back, even in his first update he *claimed* he would do updates every two weeks, even if he had nothing to report.
I’d wonder if he’s frustrated with the lack of progress (the statement to Kevin seems to allude to it), but he has seemed to have adopted PB’s lacksidaisasical attitude where most sane people would have fled for greener pastures.
Well, on the idea of live action Robotech: they did transformers movies, so it is reasonably possible.
Just mix it slightly with "Top Gun" and we are good.
I know, never underestimate how badly they can "plan".
May have to make use of Japan's "stealth" fighter:
Mitsubishi X-2 Shinshin
Unfortunately, I would expect to see a live movie on "Go-Bots" (Machine-Robo) before Robotech.
OR
Live action G-Force / Battle of the Planets (Gatchaman)
OR
Live action Lupin III
Mazinger Z (Transzor Z)
Micronauts (Microman):
ROM the space knight:
MASK
Stop me please...
I think I was trying to say that there is a fair bit of nostalgia that may be worth looking back on that does not involve Palladium or Harmony Gold.
Although Marvel did the comic, I believe the rights belong to the company (or did) that made the toy - Mattel? And there was plans for a ROM movie, though I don’t know where that stands...
As for Go-bots (heroic Leader One and evil Cy-Kill), they were the cheap trnasformers, but they had a bit of a following for a little while.
And don’t forget to throw Sectaurs and Jason & the Wheeled Warriors into lines that will get movies before Robotech is likely to.
The ROM toy was licensed by Hasbro to Marvel for the comic. Same with Micronauts. Marvel created some stuff that they own, but ROM himself isn't theirs.
Buried in this week's PBWU Comments on Facebook, we got two questions answered (I edited out some other comments, but the comments pasted are unedited and in context).
Rob Symons - "There's no update for Heroes of humanity Armory did that that one get cancelled?"
Palladium Books Inc. - "Heroes of Humanity is not going to be released this quarter- we are concentrating on Sovietski, the 2 Bestiaries, and RRT."
So, despite no mention of it in the PBWU and no Kickstarter Update as of this post, as of four hours ago (2PM Saturday Detroit Time), there's someone logging on to PB's Facebook page and stating that RRT will be worked on in some fashion in the next two months and change, though obviously not completed. Assuming the three books mentioned don't drag on well past their revised release dates, and take up all the time. Because something like that would never happen.
Jeremey Gragg - "Where's Scott?"
Palladium Books Inc. - "Still working for Palladium."
And we get what is a response to a theory posited. Scott still works for PB. My initial read was that it was someone else posting, but on a second read, it could be just a poor communication from Scott (the lack of "I'm" to start, or any other first person definitive).
Anyway, my take away there is the decision to be almost three weeks late on his KSU without any form of announcement of the fact, can't be blamed on him being shitcanned.
Ugh, the Gatchaman movie was even worse than Yamato. At least Yamato had decent actors though. One of the worst choices being the actress who played Jun. The effects and all were very nice but the movie overall just sucked ass.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The gobot toys were ok actually.
Obviously need to do my homework and yes... basement dweller as accused. Excuse me as I go hunt down the Gatchaman live action movie...
Would you believe that "Machine-Robo" / Go-Bots originally came out before Transformers? 1982 vs 1984.
I would agree however that they are the inferior toy.
Turns out Hasbro bought them and Go-Bots became an "alternative universe within the Transformers brand".
So it makes it all the more clear that with so many similar anime brands out there the only reason we do not have a Robotech movie is poor IP management.
Further news, received some models that are looking good for RRT, will hopefully post when I get to do some assembly.
My son suddenly took a huge interest in Dungeons and Dragons and I am trying to get up to speed on 5th edition as a DM so time is looking limited.
Anyone know any good 1st level modules??
I can get back on topic with RRT faster...
@Talizvar - LOL! I was just amused that your wishes had been fulfilled, but you just didn't know it.
The Robotech issue isn't so much poor IP management, it's that it's encumbered by legal issues and threats from HG. I think others have gone into it in quite some detail.
WRT D&D 5E, I understand it's a good system. Module-wise, Tomb of Horrors is always fun for the DM.
Do what I am doing and run Curse of Strahd, instead.
(Actually, the two best - besides my old favorite, Ravenloft - are the adventure that comes in the Beginner box, and Tales of the Yawning Portal. The latter is 7 modules from previous editions updated to 5E. They can be run individually or as a campaign. Oddly enough, it concludes with Tomb of Horrors)
Anything with the words "Temple of Elemental Evil" in its title also has the advantage of 'we can probably play this semi-regularly until the kid is done with college'.
I ran 3E Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil on a play by post forum many years ago, we were at it for a good year or more and they basically got to the moathouse and cleared the upper level. Were headed downstairs when things fell apart.
Right now I get my RPG-lite kick with Shadows of Brimstone, but every so often I glance at my D&D 4E collection and ponder putting the Dwarven Forge Dungeon Tile collection to use.
Thanks DD, yes, be amused.
I am finding I have a bit of a magpie issue of getting distracted by so many things I miss developments in other interests: that is why I talk to you guys (even though it is an easy Google if the thought occurs).
Thanks for the D&D advice, Yawning Portal I will eventually get just for the "Against the Giants" module, fond memories of that one, had my first character perma-death in the Frost Giant section wayyyyy back.
I was convinced into "Hoard of the Dragon Queen" from someone who played the whole thing through.
My son (11yrs) already tried to start a D&D club of his own at school and he barely read the Player's Handbook: I admire his enthusiasm not so much his planning/execution.
I am afraid he is a bit too much like his dad.
On topic with RRT:
So, working on a Armored VT, it is more in need of assembly and how far I want to pin the heck out of it.
Got some female power armor that need a fair bit of cleaning up, pinning and some green stuff gap filling.
This stuff is much nicer than dealing with the white flexible porous stuff from Shapeways.
Need to look into getting a bunch of RRT bases, buying printed stuff seems nuts, I have some means of cutting disks out of polystyrene card or I could do a press mold I guess if desperate.
Anyone wants to sell me any bases (if you based differently) please PM me!
Hopefully for those wanting to burn/bin their stuff I get to you in time...
So yeah, RRT Kickstarter is still in the "no-update" doldrums.
Not that an update would change anything but what fun is life without poking the bear?
And so week 3 of "Where's Scotto?" concludes with continued silence.
On the positive side, this weekend is the weekend where Kevin tends to do his State of the Company spiel, announcing what's coming over the next year. No, he never comes close to hitting his targets, but that MIGHT be the stupid reasoning that there hasn't been a KSU. Stepping on Kevin's big moment would NOT be tolerated.
Or, it could just be your regular run-of-the-mill Palladium incompetence and mismanagement.
on knowing what kind of a mess 
Kevin has made of 
). Disavowed is due January. As is Bestiary 2. Sovietski due February. And a Dead Reign book due in March. And I didn't pull this schedule from mid-year or something. These are all listed release dates in the last real PBWU (the December 21st PBWU was a textual stroking of Kevin's ..... ego), December 13th. He thinks just over three months out, he'll have 5 books complete. 
).
