GrosseSax wrote: Is anyone also still waiting for their MTO war wagons?
Yep.
Not too worried though, it's nowhere close to the 180 days they say to allow.
And since I've only ever had 1 item reach me before day 170something....
nathan2004 wrote: What would people wanna see MTO for Wood Elves? Not trying to be a smart butt, I'm genuinely curious.
Not a Wood Elf player, but would totally go for a classic Orion and Ariel! The old metal Glade Guards were great and so were the Waywatchers. And I'd totally jump on the old Treemen and Dryads!
nathan2004 wrote: What would people wanna see MTO for Wood Elves? Not trying to be a smart butt, I'm genuinely curious.
There was a bunch of Mail Order only Wardancers in extra silly acrobatic poses during the range update in the 2000s which I really, really wanted but couldn't afford as a student - these would be great
pgmason wrote: The rumour discussion on Discord is centred around the idea that there was some problem that delayed the Beastmen - possibly a printing error or something, and that they should have been in the week when there were no pre-orders recently. The Wood Elves have either been brought forward or are keeping to their original timeslot so as not to disrupt other releases.
Not impossible the book was delayed out of China if it was printed there, even though UK/China shipping shouldn't really be affected, it is and it's complete chaos at the moment because nobody can plan anything.
The heroes are a selection from 6th edition of Warhammer, and there’s another set of nobles from longer ago than that, including one hero you might remember from the original Warhammer Quest…
I sure hope that means the Elf Ranger is returing!
I never should have gotten rid of mine back in the day. I won't make that mistake again.
Him and The Sword of Twilight from Mordheim have been on my list since i started collecting.
Why not just get Aenur from ebay? He's incredibly cheap and common there.
Wow, honestly shocking how much the line changed from 5th edition in 1996 to 6th edition in 2000 once you take a look at it. A lot of the 6th edition minis have aged real well.
Overread wrote: Ariel - which honestly considering Orion is back I'm curious why she wasn't part of the core wave. She'd also make a fantastic new model for the army.
If I had to guess, I'd say it's because she's in AoS.
Overread wrote: Ariel - which honestly considering Orion is back I'm curious why she wasn't part of the core wave. She'd also make a fantastic new model for the army.
If I had to guess, I'd say it's because she's in AoS.
The Character can exist in both games - the same model can't. So we could easily see her classic form with the butterfly wings without it stepping on AoS's toes
Me: Carefully re-read that preview twice before I posted my question, in case the minis were mentioned or pictured there.
Also me: Completely failed to see the minis clearly mentioned and pictured there.
In my defence I think the arrow to scroll through the last WE picture wasn't working when I looked at it the other day ...
Anyway, thanks!
To be fair, it’s very on-brand for Wood Elves to be good at hiding.
I had a 40K game where I hid my Eldar Rangers so well, I forgot about them the whole game and only noticed when I was packing back up.
At the shop a few months back we found a Vindicare Assassin who'd gotten left behind. Poor thing had been waiting patiently for 2 weeks to get a good shot off.
(we know it was 2 weeks because we knew who's mini it was & when they'd last played. )
The funniest thing though is that we know there'd been several games played on that table in-between!
Me: Carefully re-read that preview twice before I posted my question, in case the minis were mentioned or pictured there.
Also me: Completely failed to see the minis clearly mentioned and pictured there.
In my defence I think the arrow to scroll through the last WE picture wasn't working when I looked at it the other day ...
Anyway, thanks!
To be fair, it’s very on-brand for Wood Elves to be good at hiding.
I had a 40K game where I hid my Eldar Rangers so well, I forgot about them the whole game and only noticed when I was packing back up.
At the shop a few months back we found a Vindicare Assassin who'd gotten left behind. Poor thing had been waiting patiently for 2 weeks to get a good shot off.
(we know it was 2 weeks because we knew who's mini it was & when they'd last played. )
The funniest thing though is that we know there'd been several games played on that table in-between!
I made a Mantis warrior space marine for a painting competition here years ago. set him up on the game board in the basement. Got sidetracked, and couldn't find him for months. The competition ended...as did 2 others before I found him again. Sneaky Renegades
Erynor wrote: I saw an ebay listing for the below models but don't recall seeing them in the preview article, so maybe indicitave of a second pre-order wave?
Most likely MTO, as of tomorrow the entire range will be up for pre-orders. They aren't splitting the release into waves this time it seems.
Erynor wrote: I saw an ebay listing for the below models but don't recall seeing them in the preview article, so maybe indicitave of a second pre-order wave?
Most likely MTO, as of tomorrow the entire range will be up for pre-orders. They aren't splitting the release into waves this time it seems.
The MTOs don't get photos on their blisters do they? At least none of mine have.
We’ll find out more about all that in due course, both in Arcane Journal: Grand Cathay and in the sequence of books that follow it. We will continue to jump around the Old World, telling the stories of Westerland and elsewhere, moving back and forward over a period of around a decade. Suffice to say, there’s plenty more to come.
This bit should put to rest the notion that the Great War Against Chaos will be covered anytime soon. I assume the reference to a decade is game time rather than real world time, which puts the Great War about 20+ years out of reach. If its real world time, then maybe well see GWAC in 2035.
Also down page is a reference to the next AJ after Cathay, fingers crossed for Kislev.
We already lived through The End Times, I don't see any advantage in rushing toward the Second Great Incursion, especially as I'd think TOW would invite the kind of gamer who is happy with setting over narrative, the pre-Mass Effect mind who doesn't complain about "moving the story forward."
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: That would be pretty funny if it hits the three year cycle like everything else.
Well, if it joined the cycle then it would all have to slow down- AoS, 40K, HH, and TOW would mean a 4 year cycle, so maybe for the benefit of everyone?
4 years seems sane, iirc 4-5 years was closer to average when i started 25 years ago.
And iirc its been said before that AJs are not army books, they can be tied to armies just as much as they can be tied to places or events and will be the main vehicle through which the game and the core factions will continue to be expanded with additionsl armies of infamy, new chsracters, units, wargear, etc. AJs for the legacy factions are much less likely than for new factions or existing factions.
AJ's might not be "army books" but isn't the new Cathay one basically going to be just that as they aren't in the Forces of Good compendium book.
I can 100% see GW simply using the AJ term for Old World whilst AoS has Battletomes and 40K Codex.
As for the 3 year cycle - it would be VERY predictable for GW to enter such a cycle with Old World. However it is problematic as they can't use it in the Summer Slot because they do indeed run out of summers. That means slot near to Christmas either just before or just after (probably after); or GW shifting to a 4 year cycle. Or something else.
Also nothing says that you have to have a new edition for a new army book. They could easily go back and do a new Bretonnia or TK book with all the units in the same book; all updated with refinements from FAQ/Errata and balance updates; throw some new sculpts for the core models that haven't yet been updated and then perhaps throw a new leader model out there and such and boom you've got a nice big chunky release that everyone will leap on and which doesn't need a new rules edition to sell.
That the specific and protectable term Arcane Journal is going to replace the generic term of Army Books was clear after that was first mentioned
that more AJ's coming after all Index armies got theirs more or less clear since they dropped the "HH for Fantasy" idea.
Which itself was mentioned only before the release and a good chance that the people behind that idea or who wanted to be campaign focused not being part of the team any more (rumors were around that ~6 months before the release there was a complete new team working on it)
there were just 2 "real" options anyway on how the game would proceed, the classic army book re-release cycle or the campaign book cycle
with the lore in the AJ being not really connected at all (outside being the same setting and wider time frame, just like the old army books), and Cathay getting a AJ instead of being released as part of a Campaign book, chance was already low for campaign books after that
Also ongoing Edition cycle for TOW doesn't necessarily clash with the main games release cycle depending on how big GW wants it to be
Necromunda got their regular "updates" in the past years without any influence on the main games, LI get their books out as well.
Also to keep in mind, an Army Book release won't happen without a model release
So whatever is done is coming with new models, be it for one faction or multiple ones
Possible Armies after Cathay are still Kislev or Chaos Dwarfs but as the article specifically names Westerland, and we have now a Cathay ship on the map in that very region I would Marienburg is getting its own Journal
Chaos Dwarves are in AoS - at least all Whitefang (reliable) hints on The Grand Alliance Forums point toward that and its less likely that GW will release a new army into both games at the same time. Indeed I suspect the only army that will appear in both is Slaves to Darkness for a long while.
GW wants to have unique forces as much as they can because it means a greater chance of selling the games and models to the same customers. They want two separated and distinct products.
Sure style can get a LONG way there but that means a LOT more investment in design. Plus lets face it they don't have ot load up Old World - every army barring Cathay has big chunks of metal and old plastic ripe for updating,
Well, technically Empire and High Elves are also still in AoS, but with a very different style and setting.
So it really comes down to how Chaos Dwarfs are implemented to be excluded from one or the other
Like the classic 3rd/4th CD for Warhammer and the FW ones for AoS.
Also a question what is going to happen with Fireslayers in AoS as 2 lava/flame themed dwarfs armies are going against the past "each army with a specific style".
Overall I don't think we are going to see a plastic update for metal/resin parts of the already released armies
those are there for the nostalgia to keep the old players happy and phasing those out would work against that (and keeping multiple version available is too much investment for a niche game)
Much more like we get "fresh" lines in plastic with new armies, whatever that is.
Actually I think we 100% will see the old stuff replaced. GW doesn't want metal around if the game is selling really well because it scales up very badly compared to plastics.
Furthermore whilst the nostalgia train is hard at the moment its a "flash in the dark". It's not going to sustain itself. Right now its running on a high because people are celebrating the game coming back - that will end.
Even old fans won't want to see those old models hanging around forever when you've armies like Cathay and Kislev running around with brand new really outstanding models.
So right now you've got a high on nostalgia based release that lets them get lots of armies out fast. However after that I fully expect to see replacements coming. It's what GW has done for every single game they've ever had; its what the community expects and will honestly be demanding once they are over the high of getting models that they sold/never got before (esp because of how fantasy was shut down originally).
Also a question what is going to happen with Fireslayers in AoS as 2 lava/flame themed dwarfs armies are going against the past "each army with a specific style".
Maybe the Fyreslayers finally put together all the gold they've been collecting and find out it's actually Hashut and not Grimnir, and then become the new Chaos Dwarfs!
kodos wrote: Not really something new or unexpected
That the specific and protectable term Arcane Journal is going to replace the generic term of Army Books was clear after that was first mentioned
that more AJ's coming after all Index armies got theirs more or less clear since they dropped the "HH for Fantasy" idea.
Which itself was mentioned only before the release and a good chance that the people behind that idea or who wanted to be campaign focused not being part of the team any more (rumors were around that ~6 months before the release there was a complete new team working on it)
there were just 2 "real" options anyway on how the game would proceed, the classic army book re-release cycle or the campaign book cycle
with the lore in the AJ being not really connected at all (outside being the same setting and wider time frame, just like the old army books), and Cathay getting a AJ instead of being released as part of a Campaign book, chance was already low for campaign books after that
Also ongoing Edition cycle for TOW doesn't necessarily clash with the main games release cycle depending on how big GW wants it to be
Necromunda got their regular "updates" in the past years without any influence on the main games, LI get their books out as well.
Also to keep in mind, an Army Book release won't happen without a model release
So whatever is done is coming with new models, be it for one faction or multiple ones
Possible Armies after Cathay are still Kislev or Chaos Dwarfs but as the article specifically names Westerland, and we have now a Cathay ship on the map in that very region I would Marienburg is getting its own Journal
Kislev seems certain as they worked with CA to make up the armies, units etc, Vampire Coast would be another good one as like Cathay never had official models - just conversions and they are pirates so easily slotted in.
Marienburg is currently (OW timeline) still part of the Empire.
They could go more mercs and Dogs of War or just keep putting them in the various army lists.
So of all the WE stuff on sale that seems at a decent price honestly - the only thing that really stands out is £65 for the beast pack. At just shy of £5 a model its a bit steep considering how old it all is and how most of them are the same pose.
Battalion is very tempting though
Honestly if GW hadn't dropped soulblight last week I'd likely have grabbed a bunch of this right now.
Yep and honestly the deer cavalry are still some of hte best cavalry they've done. Glade Guardians are a little old but otherwise its fairly modern plastics in there so a very solid core to build from.
nathan2004 wrote: Personally I think the battalion is the best they’ve released. Until the Cathay one drops.
They put every platic kit they have in there exept the horse cav, so its pretty good start.
Well, they also only have four, so getting every one but one is fairly easy. I think they are lucky they don't have a chariot to shoe horn in there which they seem overly happy to do.
Overread wrote: Yep and honestly the deer cavalry are still some of hte best cavalry they've done. Glade Guardians are a little old but otherwise its fairly modern plastics in there so a very solid core to build from.
I think if I were a High Elf player I'd be tempted to use the archers and spearman, as they look better than the 6th Ed HE models.
that more AJ's coming after all Index armies got theirs more or less clear since they dropped the "HH for Fantasy" idea.
Which itself was mentioned only before the release and a good chance that the people behind that idea or who wanted to be campaign focused not being part of the team any more (rumors were around that ~6 months before the release there was a complete new team working on it)
GW is a slow and cumbersome machine that can't pivot the focus of a major release within 6 months due to lead times on some of their products. The 'HH for Fantasy' concept was just one interview and it seems like they were always just talking about 'setting it in a historic era and being more niche in terms of support' rather than it being primarily Empire based factions.
chaos0xomega wrote: Theres been at least two statements made about it being HH for fantasy, several years apart. Its not just a one off throwaway line.
When was the last time? GW also said they had no immediate plans for new armies before Cathay rocked up; nothing they say is a cast-iron guarantee they will stand by in perpetuity.
Cathay - marketing wise - wasn't a new army though. Cathay and Kislev were literally the 3rd bits of marketing after "here's a map of the world" and "it comes on square bases*" marketing messages.
So marketing wise even when Kislev lands its not a "new" army marketing wise. It's marketing delivering on what its already advertised. It won't be a new immediate plan for a new army.
And honestly even after Cathay I'm not sure GW can keep that nostalgia train going much longer. Sure its working, but once you've got brand new armies with whole forces of brand new models in the marketspace you are going to get pressure from old fans who want new models and from new fans who want to see new models not wonky old sculpts from the 90s that they've no connection too what so ever.
I fully expect the next big thing for Old World will be updates. HOW those updates work is up in the air - GW could do loads of campaigns where each army gets X number of updated/new models added through a narrative campaign series. They could do big launch boxes; they could dripfeed or focus on one army then another etc.. There's a lot of options and they might even vary them.
The biggest change there is I expect we'll see a LOT more focusing on purely plastic. I think Old World has the sales for that and it makes sense considering GW just hasn't got a hope at keeping resins in stock long term reliably compared to plastics. So that might be one area that - in the background - has had a lot of change and it might even be why we've seen the number of updated in resin models drop off recently.
Eg Wood Elves and Highelves didn't have any reworked resin models like we saw with TK and Brets. Granted we also didn't see those same things in the plans for the armies in the Order Force books either- but they might have been part of Arcane Journals.
*which was amusing to hear people debate if that "REALLY" meant it was coming on squares
chaos0xomega wrote: Theres been at least two statements made about it being HH for fantasy, several years apart. Its not just a one off throwaway line.
When was the last time? GW also said they had no immediate plans for new armies before Cathay rocked up; nothing they say is a cast-iron guarantee they will stand by in perpetuity.
Definitely, the only real stance GW regarding old world, or any of its properties would be "We want to make money, will 100% immediately about face on any plans or statements that say somethig if it seems we can money by doing so."
I just hope we get Tilea some time soon - and not just Dogs of War, either...
chaos0xomega wrote: Theres been at least two statements made about it being HH for fantasy, several years apart. Its not just a one off throwaway line.
And the context of that and what was meant by it, at least with the first time, was in terms of it being a prequel for a setting taking place in the distant past.
I think Tilea / Estalia have a genuine chance after Kislev. It's an opportunity to do new things in the setting and they are a guaranteed money spinner.
Olthannon wrote: I think Tilea / Estalia have a genuine chance after Kislev. It's an opportunity to do new things in the setting and they are a guaranteed money spinner.
Gw would need to fix infantry first, and Especially for tilea and estalia, investigate pike formations.
I feel like adding more new armies after Kisleve and Cathay would be a mistake. Better to go back to armies with a lot of old models and start adding into them - they'll become almost akin to "new armies" for new fans and such and generate loads of sales to those people who have now completed their nostalgic army and want it modernised after seeing all those cool new armies coming out.
It would be great if they did more flavour campaigns instead of just new armies.
I would like for them to make campaign book focus on historical events, with rules for specialaized armies.
I want books with narrative, maps and lots of pics of heavily converted armies and inspiration for creative scenery.
Sometimes things Preyton could be in another wave or just slipped the net on this post. It's one massive chunky release though!
All the Beastmen, a bunch of WE and HE models - the first two are WE the rest are HE made to order. Along with the most derpy faced horses ever for both
Also neat to see the plastic Hera is coming for Middle Earth - feels like GW are doing a huge catch-up clean/slate before getting into the summer release schedule.
No Preyton?! Also hard to tell mto high elves from wood elves lmao. Guessing these are from 6th?
The high elves are different eras, with the unicorn guy really old, the foot mages pretty old, and the guy with dual blades is from warhammer quest. The rest Im not sure about but most are from 5th edition i think.
I wonder why they include the guy with spear and shield -he is a strangely large model compared to the others, and utterly bland, absolutely no bling or fancy bits -he is just a large spearman with a cloak.
Honestly there's likely a bit of "whatever we can get just sell it" going on since its mining the nostalgia mine they might as well throw out whatever they've got, esp for the Made to Order which is really focused on just people collecting models and such.
Honestly if it didn't cost almost £70 I'd have grabbed one of the WE animal packs - always felt like something that was missing from their army for ages so very pleased to see it back. If I ever work through my backlog to a point I can justify another army I might just pick them up along with more WE
Glad to see the 6th Edition HE Heroes released alongside the Lustria Campaign book return, even if it's only temporary. Fantastic sculpts that still hold up today:
I think the (bottom left) Hero with Longbow and Sword was released in 7th, under the collectors range.
Also another curious observation - neither of the two special edition Wood Elf Battle Standard Bearers are part of the core release nor MTO. There was the Games day one and the army box one - I'd have thought we'd have got at least one of them considering how core that concept is to the old world army rosters in general
Yay, beastmen are finally back. Stupid treehuggers releasing out of turn..
Going to get a bunch of Lord n heroes and patiently wait for preyton and BSB to arrive. Kinda bummed they are not in wave 1.
Interesting bit of lore on the Beastmen. I had no idea they were the main bad guys in WF roleplay.
My takeaway from this article is that GW is closing the door on both the interesting concepts of god-devoted beastmen, and also any hint that beastmen have forms other than caprigor. Boo. The Children of Chaos remain very organised and un-Chaotic in appearance.
Interesting bit of lore on the Beastmen. I had no idea they were the main bad guys in WF roleplay.
My takeaway from this article is that GW is closing the door on both the interesting concepts of god-devoted beastmen, and also any hint that beastmen have forms other than caprigor. Boo. The Children of Chaos remain very organised and un-Chaotic in appearance.
I might be miss remembering/mixing up AoS and Old World - but don't the core of beastmen worship Chaos not the four Chaos Gods. Ergo they come from a time before those 4 became the defacto icons for Chaos - back when there were many more gods and when Chaos was just that bit more "wild". So they worship true chaos rather than the manifestations of the four.
Yep. It’s even been in the lore for a while that true beastmen sneer at the god-aligned ones for being sellouts. So not only are beastmen hideous mutant abominations, they’re also chaos-grognards, yelling at the proverbial cloud of hipster-beastmen.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yep. It’s even been in the lore for a while that true beastmen sneer at the god-aligned ones for being sellouts. So not only are beastmen hideous mutant abominations, they’re also chaos-grognards, yelling at the proverbial cloud of hipster-beastmen.
Haha, I didn’t know that little tidbit, makes me love em even more!
“Monotheism is a fad, a sign of teenage maximalism and primitive tribalism, you dumb calves!”
KidCthulhu wrote: I always thought it had to do with Beastmen originally being Broo without the Runequest IP, so they predated the Big 4 as a concept.
As did I. I have a bunch of old Citadel Broo and Beast Men, my favorites being a unicorn-headed beastman and a snakeman. I need to find them.
Also, I like that Cathay box, but it is missing the "Wow" miniatures for me. If it had a small airship or a decent dragon or something...
Well, it follows the format of the other battalions, so if it were a bigger/more interresting box it would spook the fan base as a portent of a dreaded "new edition".
Overread wrote: I might be miss remembering/mixing up AoS and Old World - but don't the core of beastmen worship Chaos not the four Chaos Gods. Ergo they come from a time before those 4 became the defacto icons for Chaos - back when there were many more gods and when Chaos was just that bit more "wild". So they worship true chaos rather than the manifestations of the four.
Back in the old Realm of Chaos books, Beastmen champions took their patron mark just like everyone else, and their warbands were glorious riots of Chaotic colour.
Now everything's just brown. :(
The Lost and the Damned, page 138 wrote:Beastmen revere the four Great Chaos Powers Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch, as well as many of the lesser Powers which slumber in the Realm of Chaos. A Beastman Champion will often not dedicate himself to a specific Power, but to the unfettered glory of Chaos as a whole.
Chaos Powers look upon Beastmen with special favour, and rewards are granted to successful Champions even though they may serve no specific Chaos Power. Champions who do follow Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch often benefit from the relationship more readily than human or other Champions, because they are closer to the true nature of Chaos.
A warband which follows one of the Chaos Powers will naturally acquire mutations and powers appropriate to that Power. As the Champion and his warband are granted fresh rewards by the Champion's Patron, they gradually mutate into the form of Beastmen of Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch. When a warband breaks up following the death of its Champion, these Beastmen join up with other Champions of that Power. In this way there are always Beastmen of the Great Powers available to join the warband of an up and coming Champion.
Now that the Great Horned Rat is a Chaos god, it would interesting to see what form is taken by Beastmen devoted to it, or to Hashut!
Yeah, the TOW Battalions are just what they should be; a bunch of core (not Core) units to build an army around. I've not bought any so far because, frankly, I already have the core troops I need form days of yore. This one I'm getting though.
From todays article on Beastmen: While its cool to see GW mentioning making your own terrain, there's a perfectly fine, soon defunct in AoS Beasts of Chaos herdstone plastic kit at their disposal. Mayhaps it has too many AoS bits in the trophy/skull piles(mainly SCE armor pieces).
Finally, Herdstones return in the form of special terrain features that make casting spells even easier for Beastmen Wizards whilst making the Beastmen themselves more ferocious and sapping the courage of their enemies. These represent a fun modelling and terrain making project for hobbyists. Such terrain features are something that, to my mind, have always been a major feature of the battlefields of the Old World.
Gadge: They’re a fairly easy modelling project. Get some foamcore, or even a big rock, put it on a base with some grass tufts and flock, and cover it with Citadel skulls and Blood for the Blood God!
Overread wrote: I might be miss remembering/mixing up AoS and Old World - but don't the core of beastmen worship Chaos not the four Chaos Gods. Ergo they come from a time before those 4 became the defacto icons for Chaos - back when there were many more gods and when Chaos was just that bit more "wild". So they worship true chaos rather than the manifestations of the four.
Back in the old Realm of Chaos books, Beastmen champions took their patron mark just like everyone else, and their warbands were glorious riots of Chaotic colour.
Now everything's just brown. :(
The Lost and the Damned, page 138 wrote:Beastmen revere the four Great Chaos Powers Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch, as well as many of the lesser Powers which slumber in the Realm of Chaos. A Beastman Champion will often not dedicate himself to a specific Power, but to the unfettered glory of Chaos as a whole.
Chaos Powers look upon Beastmen with special favour, and rewards are granted to successful Champions even though they may serve no specific Chaos Power. Champions who do follow Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch often benefit from the relationship more readily than human or other Champions, because they are closer to the true nature of Chaos.
A warband which follows one of the Chaos Powers will naturally acquire mutations and powers appropriate to that Power. As the Champion and his warband are granted fresh rewards by the Champion's Patron, they gradually mutate into the form of Beastmen of Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch. When a warband breaks up following the death of its Champion, these Beastmen join up with other Champions of that Power. In this way there are always Beastmen of the Great Powers available to join the warband of an up and coming Champion.
Now that the Great Horned Rat is a Chaos god, it would interesting to see what form is taken by Beastmen devoted to it, or to Hashut!
Wait wait wait are there actual Beastmen in the lore dedicated to worshipping Hashut? Or did you just make that up?
Time flows differently in the immaterium, tbe Great Horned Rat was always a chaos god in the same way that the existence of Slaanesh pre-dates their own birth
As did I. I have a bunch of old Citadel Broo and Beast Men, my favorites being a unicorn-headed beastman and a snakeman. I need to find them.
I had that set too. Thought they were cool, but I eventually traded them for store credit since I owned them for two decades and had not done anything with them. Runequest Broo are superior to these GW knockoffs, being properly chaotic and diverse in form.
Cathay has some fine models, but I'm not in the market for YET another army. Have so many already, and only a few painted.
I find it weird that so many models, even the plastic lord which you kind of need, is online only. Also, €93 for the jabberslythe? are they insane? It used to be 50, maybe 60.
Even in finecast the cockatrice is a nice sculpt. Its a wonky concept that should have ended up as derpy as many other beasts they released at that time, but it turned out pretty cool with a solid balanced design.
Yeah, jabberslythe is crazy expensive, I’ll have to pass, foolishly expected it to be with the same price tag as the gigantic chaos spawn.
Who else ain’t cheap? Kralmaw, but him I still will probably get along with the AJ, maybe gorros. Will probably wait for wave 2, I want that BSB.
I’m a bit worried about the price of the preyton- hope it doesn’t cost more than a cockatrice.
It’s about the same size, right?
The wings on the cockatrice are honestly a large part of why it seems like such a huge model. Especially for its day and age of original release, those are some big wings on a pretty large upper body.
Didn't realise the Preyton was so small. Was thinking about getting one for use in Warcry, but for its size and the price it will be, that's an easy skip.
Tyel wrote: I think the Preyton has always been quite small.
Someone I played with ran one as an alternative to a second Varghulf back in the day.
The lore about the preyton say its a ferocius monster and cause great havoc, but also that some unfortunate nobles mistake it for a great stag, so perhaps the size is suitable. Feels more like a hideous predator you suddenly encounter in a forest rather than a big monster.
@Platuan4th thank you for the reference pics! Dare I hope it will be cheaper than a cockatrice then, lol?
I don’t mind it being moderate in size, as mentioned above it’s fitting to the lore
+ it’s nice to have monsters of various grandeur
Honestly whilst I love big models I can also appreciate models that actually fit on the battlefield. I've got two of the massive new 160mm base undead dragons for soulblight and they are lovely looking models.
They are under 300points each too so you can field several.
They have a very cool redeployment rule for during the game letting them swoop down anywhere.
They are still on 160mm bases which means they are HUGE; esp once you load up the table with models and terrain! Suddenly you realise that taking a whole flight of undead dragons might not work because you'll never be able to put them everywhere you need them.
Meanwhile those beasties on 50 and 80mm bases might be smaller, but they FIT on the table.
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: @Platuan4th thank you for the reference pics! Dare I hope it will be cheaper than a cockatrice then, lol?
I don’t mind it being moderate in size, as mentioned above it’s fitting to the lore
+ it’s nice to have monsters of various grandeur
Always happy to help if I have access to stuff. I know it's hard to gauge from GW's pics usually.
Will the FAQ/errata be a 'regular' one, or something heavy handed, making big changes? I've heard somethings about the latter, to do with Stomp attacks and possibly re-adding outnumber among other things.
Nobody really knows, voices on the internet say big balance update but at the same time give hints on rules that would mean it is just a big swing in the opposite direction.
Just received notification my MTO War Wagons have been shipped. Shipping to a damn Sigmar forsaken country, so if you haven't received yours yet - should receive it soon, I think
A lower effort MTO might be the metal characters and the models from the two expansion sets?
GW always make it seem like cardstock reprinting is the hardest thing in the world, but, well, people can probably reproduce the other bits themselves if they have to.
nathan2004 wrote: They are also diving into Cathay this week talking about the design of them. My guess is they are dropping within the next few weeks.
But that would mean a hardcover army book valid for longer than 3 months before the next edition and that's not how GW does things
Maybe we get the new edition in autumn in form of a revised core book incorporating changes from the matched play book starting the army book cycle of the game
Heard some rumours that outnumber might be coming back, and/or close order res bonus only applies on US10+, and impact hits will happen before challenges.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Just remembered I bought a near mint copy of the original WHQ earlier this year.
Not especially relevant to the convo, but eat my brag, suckers!
I still own everything released in the US for the game, purchased at the time, save the Wood Elf Wardancer booklet, the High Elf Ranger mini, and the orcs & goblins - all of which wandered off somewhere.
This would not stop me form purchasing a full reprint of the core box. Alas, such is more likely a dream, as from what I understand, it's not just the print masters for the tiles, but they also lost the layout masters of the rulebooks, too. Of course, I feel like modern technology is up to replacing everything from archival copies, but I doubt GW feels like putting in the effort to tap that particular well of nostalgia money.
I'm desperately trying to like the dragon, but the head (specficially the teeth) ruin it. It's got that horrible snaggle tooth look going on the old dark elf dragon had and it doesn't fit with the sleekness of the rest of it. The human form of it looks good however. Will have to try and get her on her own.
Maybe it's just me, but the article just reads like "we sold out to the Chinese market". Though in fairness I'd have to dig up the articles that followed the release of Tau and see if they used similar language.
Maybe it's just me, but the article just reads like "we sold out to the Chinese market". Though in fairness I'd have to dig up the articles that followed the release of Tau and see if they used similar language.
It's not like they're going to release a bunch of 'Oriental' minis like they would have in the 80's. China is a big market, and everyone who wants to make money has to get their specific needs right. I didn't even think of it until they mentioned it, but the lack of skulls and such makes the Cathay stuff really stand out in a Warhammer setting. They look great!
I'm also interested in the bit they mention about having written an 8th Edition army list for Cathay so Creative Assembly had something to translate into Total War. Feels like we need some kind of Mission Impossible-style heist to retrieve that list now.
Maybe it's just me, but the article just reads like "we sold out to the Chinese market". Though in fairness I'd have to dig up the articles that followed the release of Tau and see if they used similar language.
They did not (that was mostly fan claims), but I was struck by this article's tone. I generally think it's great to try to be informed about design inspiration, and both acknowledge the source material as well as try to avoid some problematic elements, but it did seem like the article writer was falling over themselves to mention it in this instance. Particularly, the thing about avoiding gruesomeness read a little strangely to me - it's not like various eras of Chinese medieval history (and the Tang dynasty specifically) were strangers to spectacular gruesomeness. I think it's perfectly fine to point to the lack of that being physically represented in the models and art as a thing that makes Cathay distinctive from other human factions, but the stated reasoning seems a bit of a stretch. It could well be that Grand Cathay at this time is somewhat less morbid than the Empire (which, to be clear, is ALSO less morbid than it would come to be in the later era - Jordan Sorcery has a GREAT [tautological; Jordan's always great] interview with one of the Cublic 7 people where the latter talks about the difference in the sensibility of TOW and WFRP), which would be a neat point of distinction.
I did like the note about developing the Longma - if Warhammer just stuck to contemporary ideas of mythology it'd be less interesting, so I'm glad to see they're making efforts to adapt and change stuff as well.
Maybe it's just me, but the article just reads like "we sold out to the Chinese market". Though in fairness I'd have to dig up the articles that followed the release of Tau and see if they used similar language.
To me, it read more like, "We sold out to the Chinese government..."
The lack of skull gruesomeness is not particularly remarkable in WFB.
Dwarfs don't use them, Bretonnians don't use them (except that one dead questing knight being carried by pilgrims), high elves don't use them. Even wood elves have very little presence of that imagery (there's like a skull hanging from the harness of the wizard's stag).
Just like 40k, people get blinkers on about what the 'theme' or imagery of the setting is by ignoring everything except the Empire/Imperium.
Plenty of factions don't have anything like the same style.
Hellebore wrote: The lack of skull gruesomeness is not particularly remarkable in WFB.
Dwarfs don't use them, Bretonnians don't use them (except that one dead questing knight being carried by pilgrims), high elves don't use them. Even wood elves have very little presence of that imagery (there's like a skull hanging from the harness of the wizard's stag).
Just like 40k, people get blinkers on about what the 'theme' or imagery of the setting is by ignoring everything except the Empire/Imperium.
Plenty of factions don't have anything like the same style.
Cathay is not unique in that regard.
.
You are totally correct. I was thinking Empire and the general imagery of the setting thru the rulebooks and such, but other factions do have differing visual languages and themes.
Maybe it's just me, but the article just reads like "we sold out to the Chinese market". Though in fairness I'd have to dig up the articles that followed the release of Tau and see if they used similar language.
To me, it read more like, "We sold out to the Chinese government..."
So what would you suggest they do instead?
Insist upon using imagery that would hurt their sales, or maybe other business dealings, there - when it's simple enough to just avoid such issues in the 1st place?
Not give us an interesting look at how/why they did what they did?
I might be alone on this, but I miss hand-sculpted minis.
Computer-generated minis are *technically* incredible. The detail is crisp, the fit of the parts is usually perfect. But they look like what they are: CGI made three-dimensional.
To me the new Cathay minis are exemplifying this. They have all the technical brilliance but it's a bit lifeless and lacking real character.
It just interesting how sensitive they are with Chinese folklore, a monster not being able to have abilities because the original doesn't have them while being careful to not mix up different cultures
But at the same time everything east of Germany is russian and all different creatures from folklore are ignored to be replaced by modern russian bears
So yes if GW wants a step into a new market and expect high sales they are very sensitive and careful while if they don't they just throw any know stereotype in and call it a day
Maybe it's just me, but the article just reads like "we sold out to the Chinese market". Though in fairness I'd have to dig up the articles that followed the release of Tau and see if they used similar language.
To me, it read more like, "We sold out to the Chinese government..."
So what would you suggest they do instead?
Insist upon using imagery that would hurt their sales, or maybe other business dealings, there - when it's simple enough to just avoid such issues in the 1st place?
Not give us an interesting look at how/why they did what they did?
I'm not sure there would've been a better option. Yes, I'm all for trying to avoid cultural insensitivity, and I was pleased they decided to tone down some other problematic product lines (such as reducing the 'sexiness' of Battle Sisters). I just read between the lines and it felt like they were more worried about crossing the CCP than the general Chinese public.
Computer-generated minis are *technically* incredible. The detail is crisp, the fit of the parts is usually perfect. But they look like what they are: CGI made three-dimensional.
To me the new Cathay minis are exemplifying this. They have all the technical brilliance but it's a bit lifeless and lacking real character.
You are not alone. It's very rare to see modern minis with the same "soul" as the old hand sculpted stuff by Kev Adams, The Perrys, Colin Dixon and all the rest. The new plastics are obviously superior in most other ways. But I think it's a real shame that you can no longer tell who designed a mini just by looking at it like you can with some of the older stuff.
The people who design the modern stuff are super talented so I think it would be fun If they would be allowed to personalize their work but I guess that's not how things are done anymore, propably bad for business or something.
It reminds me of when The Simpsons went from hand drawn to computer drawn. The exactly correct lines, the lost texture of imperfections in physical ink and paint, it was sterile, and also oddly "cheaper" somehow. And when you are making armor pieces that feature a ton of cloning and perfectly computer shaped helmets and such, it really amplifies it. But I can always paint my stuff, and it won't look perfect anymore after that.
Maybe it's just me, but the article just reads like "we sold out to the Chinese market". Though in fairness I'd have to dig up the articles that followed the release of Tau and see if they used similar language.
The problem I have with Cathay at the moment is that it's just too 'clean' and wonderful. In that respect they're very much like Tau 3e. There's not really enough grit, hidden intrigue, hints of abuse of power by the dragons, hints of decay within it's society. I want opium den equivalents run by Jade Blooded Vampires, elements of a repressive police state poking through the cracks run on the basis of the greater good, I want a callous disregard to individual tragedy and the numbers of dead in great battles/social ructions, I want serious intermittant factionalism between the dragon children, I want hints at chauvanistic cultural superiority (China is just as bad as the West for this) etc etc. All we're getting is 'biggest empire in Warhammer, always have been, mighty culture' etc etc. I also really don't like them shoehorned into arriving at Marienburg and acting like it's because they were much more in contact with the Old World during the TOW period.
They mention deliberately avoiding the usage of skulls and other similar 'body horror' because of Chinese cultural views and that is indeed correct, the Chinese culture is much more offended by that stuff than Western culture is. However not having that grimdark is kinda missing a key aspect of the Warhammer aesthetic, even for instance the Brets who don't have many skulls present have some pretty ugly looking peasants to provide the grimdark. I guess you could argue that the High Elves are fairly light and bright. There's also next to no satire of Chinese culture, it's obvious they're avoiding it because they don't want to be called racist but again it's missing that element of 'Warhammerness'. Bretonnia is basically an over the top satire of Western Medieval European cultures with plenty of tongue in cheek French bashing, the Empire is a satire of the mess that was the Holy Roman Empire and Europe's propensity to fight itself rather than focusing on other threats, the High Elves have more than a hint of British exceptionalism, the Dark Elves are slave trading nation in the North American equivalent, while the Lizardmen being a non human society aren't particularly satirical Lustria is rife with satirical hints.
This being said, I'll be buying a load of Cathay stuff because I love the models and I want to support GW finally expanding the WHFB universe and releasing new factions. I just hope that they're darkened up a great deal in TOW2, they mostly got there in the end with Tau.
Maybe it's just me, but the article just reads like "we sold out to the Chinese market". Though in fairness I'd have to dig up the articles that followed the release of Tau and see if they used similar language.
To me, it read more like, "We sold out to the Chinese government..."
I see why folk might think that. But cultural and racial sensitivity matters, especially when you’re adapting historical forces to a fantasy setting.
Considers the many symbols that keep cropping up in different cultures, with different, non-universal meanings - some which now have near universal interpretations.
I’m aware Chinese culture goes back a looooooong time. But beyond that, and stuff I’ve seen in films, I don’t know all that much about it.
Yet, when I look at Bretonnia and The Empire, there are clear historical cues somewhat culturally sanitised and turned to fantasy. Probably because the folks behind their origin as keystone forces of Warhammer were familiar enough with the real history to adapt them so.
Why shouldn’t Cathay have that same knowledge applied to the same effect? Especially when Chinese myth and culture extends considerably beyond the present government’s origins.
Overread wrote: I can't justify another army but I will be getting the dragon when I can!
If all you're after is the dragon and not the human form, let me know and i'll take her off you.
You might end up with a long wait - technically I kind of want another Soulblight dragon first - and other stuff and I'm supposed to save for a necromancer dragon from Creature Caster at some point - so yeah could be a while!
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: But cultural and racial sensitivity matters, especially when you’re adapting historical forces to a fantasy setting.
First of all, it's fiction. Second, where was this deep attachment to cultural and racial sensitivity when GW was re-doing Kislev for CA?
I mean, we're talking about a game where sub-saharan africans are represented by "savage Orcs" that in earlier models even had bones in their hair.
And native americans are dinosaurs and lizards.
So, in order to not make it too political best not overthink it. Maybe it helps if you take Cathay as a mix of different Chinese eras and cultures like Kislev does with west- and eastern slavs.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: But cultural and racial sensitivity matters, especially when you’re adapting historical forces to a fantasy setting.
First of all, it's fiction. Second, where was this deep attachment to cultural and racial sensitivity when GW was re-doing Kislev for CA?
I mean, we're talking about a game where sub-saharan africans are represented by "savage Orcs" that in earlier models even had bones in their hair.
And native americans are dinosaurs and lizards.
So, in order to not make it too political best not overthink it. Maybe it helps if you take Cathay as a mix of different Chinese eras and cultures like Kislev does with west- and eastern slavs.
and yet we hot an article on WarCom on how important it is to not mix those different cultures and stay true to the specific folklore and not change things for the sake of gameplay (so no wings for something thst doesn't have things in real live)
But only if it needs to appeal to a new market with high sales expected, no sales expected in Africa or Eastern Europe therefore no cultural sensitivity needed (just need to be enough stereotypes present in the markets you expect sales, so Kislev is how US expects Eastern Europe to be, but Cathay being how Chinese expect it)
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: But cultural and racial sensitivity matters, especially when you’re adapting historical forces to a fantasy setting.
First of all, it's fiction. Second, where was this deep attachment to cultural and racial sensitivity when GW was re-doing Kislev for CA?
I mean, we're talking about a game where sub-saharan africans are represented by "savage Orcs" that in earlier models even had bones in their hair.
And native americans are dinosaurs and lizards.
So, in order to not make it too political best not overthink it. Maybe it helps if you take Cathay as a mix of different Chinese eras and cultures like Kislev does with west- and eastern slavs.
and yet we hot an article on WarCom on how important it is to not mix those different cultures and stay true to the specific folklore and not change things for the sake of gameplay (so no wings for something thst doesn't have things in real live)
But only if it needs to appeal to a new market with high sales expected, no sales expected in Africa or Eastern Europe therefore no cultural sensitivity needed (just need to be enough stereotypes present in the markets you expect sales, so Kislev is how US expects Eastern Europe to be, but Cathay being how Chinese expect it)
I haven't followed TOW that much but Kislev is not on release yet, right? So, it's still possible we get that. And I'm sure the polish-czech-russian sensitivity Team will throw some nice parties...
Much cheaper than I expected, about 50% cheaper. The standard bearer was on made-to-order for AoS before and it was more expensive then. I wonder why m2o models are sometimes reasonably priced and sometimes Steel Legion priced.
You never know it might be a good thing - it might hint that there's another infantry kit around the corner that will be part of their long term core box?
Core sets are still discounted from the full retail price of the models inside though and all core GW game armies have a core box of some kind. So it will be replaced with something; though yes granted probably not as good value.
I just wonder if its intended to have a different kit inside because otherwise I figure they'd have just used the regular box and not made a special one.
Then again its a brand new army, it likely might be thought that it needs something special on discount to help jump-start sales since there's ZERO nostalgia power going on with this army (and behind the scenes the staff likely need it to hit certain thresholds to help sustain investment in the line)}
Well it's a guarantee that everything in this release is likely to be severly more expensive than anything else released so far. So its' going to need some sort of boost.
I'd never put it past GW to not have a discount set for their new faction, but I'd also expect given the unit roster for Grand Cathay in Total Warhammer that there will be a second wave of kits eventually, just not a comprehensive one (I doubt they'll get more centrepiece kits like the Sky-Junk or War Compass, and they've already used the Old World Almanack to explain that Grand Cathay in The Old World is an elite expedition force lacking the homeland peasant militias) and more likely that not a bit further out than around the corner
Might grab a Shugengan Lord just to check out the range
Tim the Biovore wrote: I'd never put it past GW to not have a discount set for their new faction, but I'd also expect given the unit roster for Grand Cathay in Total Warhammer that there will be a second wave of kits eventually, just not a comprehensive one (I doubt they'll get more centrepiece kits like the Sky-Junk or War Compass, and they've already used the Old World Almanack to explain that Grand Cathay in The Old World is an elite expedition force lacking the homeland peasant militias) and more likely that not a bit further out than around the corner
Might grab a Shugengan Lord just to check out the range
There are 3 more dragon siblings to sell. I wont be suprised, if Cathay will be one of most biggest factions in the range in the number of kits.
Tim the Biovore wrote: I'd never put it past GW to not have a discount set for their new faction, but I'd also expect given the unit roster for Grand Cathay in Total Warhammer that there will be a second wave of kits eventually, just not a comprehensive one (I doubt they'll get more centrepiece kits like the Sky-Junk or War Compass, and they've already used the Old World Almanack to explain that Grand Cathay in The Old World is an elite expedition force lacking the homeland peasant militias) and more likely that not a bit further out than around the corner
Might grab a Shugengan Lord just to check out the range
There are 3 more dragon siblings to sell. I wont be suprised, if Cathay will be one of most biggest factions in the range in the number of kits.
By the way where is Miao Ying?
I expect she'll arrive with the individual kits from the battalion in a few weeks time.
And frankly I would be surprised if even a single other Cathayan Dragon appears in anything resembling the foreseeable future, at best you'd be looking maybe years down the line after Kislev and several other excluded factions have been reintroduced, and multiple book releases involving trickle additions to every army. I don't doubt they'd like to make them, but they're not going to give Cathay as many plastic centrepieces as other armies have plastic kits at all, especially when they're holding off on re-introducing contemporary immortal characters with existing sculpts and refusing to re-do iconic centrepiece kits like the Marienburg Land Ship and the Chaos War Mammoth
They already talked about a second Arcane Journal:
"What’s rare is for the Dragons to come to the Old World at the head of an army that looks like it could be an invasion fleet – which is what we get into in the second Cathayan Arcane Journal…"
So again I wont be suprised, if we see more kits for Cathay.
Also Zhao Ming, the Iron Dragon; Yuan Bo, the Jade Dragon is already a character in Total War: Warhammer III where Cathay has been seen for the first time.
There will be more kits for Cathay eventually, as I said, but they're not going to focus on pumping out dragons. Another one with the second Arcane Journal might be considered the foreseeable future if you assume a three-year edition cycle, but I reject the idea that Cathay are going to receive a full Total Warhammer unit roster in a game that lacks the resources to update core kits for armies like Bretonnia and Tomb Kings, and excludes half of the factions of the original setting
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Well it's a guarantee that everything in this release is likely to be severly more expensive than anything else released so far. So its' going to need some sort of boost.
The price list should make for interesting reading when it gets leaked, then.
This was previewed before but the preview reminded me that I really like the ogre cannon loader and will have to pick one up on the secondary market. Looking forward to it! I know I have a(n ogre) problem...
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Well it's a guarantee that everything in this release is likely to be severly more expensive than anything else released so far. So its' going to need some sort of boost.
The price list should make for interesting reading when it gets leaked, then.
US/CA prices have popped up on discord:
AJ and battalion are the same price as all other AJ/battalions.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Well it's a guarantee that everything in this release is likely to be severly more expensive than anything else released so far. So its' going to need some sort of boost.
The price list should make for interesting reading when it gets leaked, then.
Oh yeah, the old Hobby Budget is going to get solid kick in the junk with this one...
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Well it's a guarantee that everything in this release is likely to be severly more expensive than anything else released so far. So its' going to need some sort of boost.
The price list should make for interesting reading when it gets leaked, then.
Oh yeah, the old Hobby Budget is going to get solid kick in the junk with this one...
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Well it's a guarantee that everything in this release is likely to be severly more expensive than anything else released so far. So its' going to need some sort of boost.
The price list should make for interesting reading when it gets leaked, then.
Oh yeah, the old Hobby Budget is going to get solid kick in the junk with this one...
Well both Sky Lantern and Sentinel are what you would call easily centerpiece models and new sculpts so I was expecting them to being on same level with Necrolith dragon (Sentinel anyway).
warboss wrote: This was previewed before but the preview reminded me that I really like the ogre cannon loader and will have to pick one up on the secondary market. Looking forward to it! I know I have a(n ogre) problem...
Spoiler:
Thank you for reminding me that Cathay is giving me serious cannon envy...
* CORRECTION: A previous version of this article stated that the Grand Cathay Battalion would only be available while stocks last. This is incorrect – it is actually an ongoing product. The editors responsible have submitted themselves for appropriate servitorisation.
Sathrut wrote: Turns out the Cathay battalion is not a FOMO box:
* CORRECTION: A previous version of this article stated that the Grand Cathay Battalion would only be available while stocks last. This is incorrect – it is actually an ongoing product. The editors responsible have submitted themselves for appropriate servitorisation.
Considering how much they previewed and with HH being in the middle I'm not surprised. GW are doing a big Old World push right now to get it all out before Horus Heresy steals the middle of the year.
OW does feel FAST compared to other lines, but at the same time it kind of needs it when there's so much legacy material about and when a lot of the lines are returning kits not totally new kits. Esp when some were sold under AoS until not all that long ago (High Elves and more recently Beastmen even a good many of the Wood Elf plastics too).
Sathrut wrote: Turns out the Cathay battalion is not a FOMO box:
* CORRECTION: A previous version of this article stated that the Grand Cathay Battalion would only be available while stocks last. This is incorrect – it is actually an ongoing product. The editors responsible have submitted themselves for appropriate servitorisation.
Oh thank God, now there's no hurry. I don't need to grab it on release. My wallet just breathed a sigh of relief.
warboss wrote: This was previewed before but the preview reminded me that I really like the ogre cannon loader and will have to pick one up on the secondary market. Looking forward to it! I know I have a(n ogre) problem...
Spoiler:
Thank you for reminding me that Cathay is giving me serious cannon envy...
You have a keen eye for quality then... They do look cool and put the (calibre of) Empire cannons to shame.
Yeah the statue guys are the standout kit for me too. Pretty much since the TWW3 trailer actually.
But I really mostly want the book. I have been after the Deep Lore of Cathay since 4th edition. I really hope they have some cool tidbits about Ind and Nippon too.
Design article on Cathay appearance. They openly admit that they want to attract a Chinese audience, but the article is very interesting in their thoughts on what things they changed, added or avoided.
"Please note that the recent Sunday Preview article erroneously claimed that the Grand Cathay Battalion would only be available while stocks last. This is incorrect, and it will actually be available on an ongoing basis."
The comment about skulls is interesting, yes skulls are seen as scary and upsetting in Chinese art, I remember them trying to get skeletons cut from World of Warcraft.
But it's worth noting skulls were transgressive in Anglo-American culture too, which is why metal albums put it on their covers and why a scrappy lil'British company made so much use of them in their art as they tried to snatch market share from TSR.
The team will be back tomorrow to discuss how they created the Sky Lantern, Cathayan Sentinel, Shugengan Lord, and Miao Ying herself. On Saturday you may pre-order everything for the first time – except Miao Ying, who is soaring into pre-orders later in the year alongside a second Arcane Journal.
Second Arcane Journal within six months. I've eaten my words before, but never so quickly.
Thanks for the link! I'm glad to see an alternate pose for the ogre cannon loader with some extra options. I hope the gut plate is a separate piece and so interchangeable (even if with some conversion/effort/putty) with the others.
The team will be back tomorrow to discuss how they created the Sky Lantern, Cathayan Sentinel, Shugengan Lord, and Miao Ying herself. On Saturday you may pre-order everything for the first time – except Miao Ying, who is soaring into pre-orders later in the year alongside a second Arcane Journal.
Second Arcane Journal within six months. I've eaten my words before, but never so quickly.
Till Christmass they will get it, with a lot of new toys aswell not just Miao Ying.
Also some highlights from the article:
- Second Arcane Journal is not just Miao Ying most likely there are more units also
- Jade warriors can be built with male or female heads
- The head of the Jade Lancers horses are awfully reminding me of the Empire Knights horse heads - Gate Masters of the Celestial Cities can be built as all the BSB and General kit, which is cool ( now only the dwarfs need a such kit )
Looks like the army has a lot of special rules (more cognitive load required to play). A bit less elite than I had originally thought, perhaps even undercosted.
Well based on the reaction to most new armies they were either going to be
The Most Power EVER
or
The WEAKEST ever
There's never really a middle ground for some people prone to hyperbole and you can bet many youtubers and content creators will run with similar titles or questioning titles because of how google algorithms work today.
GW hardly ever match a middle ground, usually with the argument of "new Edition in mind"
and content creators make a living with hyperbole for GW stuff
but the game did not have a good faction balance before and if the designers tried to solve the initial problems of the core rules by giving out special rules for the new army, it will be stronger than everything else
I'm excited for this new range. I'll probably only end up picking up a cannon as I'll use it in my bretonnian exile list. But I'm excited they're expanding the range.
Shakalooloo wrote: I love how all the war machine crew have alternate poses save for the pointing and shouting one, who refuses to change!
I am almost positive they used one set of minis and hot-swap the alternate parts. The paint is the same. There are hints of gap at the shoulders. So the "Pointer" doesn't get any alternates, or they didn't set the model up to have the swaps.
You were expecting the sky lantern to cost north of £100?
The cost of materials for the tooling, the level of detail etc.. etc.. And of course we are dealing with GW, how they are gauging they prices. For me it will depend on they price individual kits for the battalion units.
I can get it from Element for £64 which feels….oddly reasonable.
I mean, it’s still Not Cheap. But £64 still feels alright to me.
Well it depends, where you live, but the way I see it that the Sentinel is in the ballpark of Nagash sized models, then I can barely justify the price.
I can get it from Element for £64 which feels….oddly reasonable.
I mean, it’s still Not Cheap. But £64 still feels alright to me.
Mega has like two sprues of head, arms, weapons and general accessory options. This guy looks like it's just the head and arm positions/blade options. So that will be a big part of it.
Billicus wrote: I really like the range and the battalion box is a pretty good deal, but the balloon is too expensive for what it is.
About the balloon it is overpriced and it is not. You have to take into account, that you can make and extra 17-20 pound character ( Magistrate or Strategist depending on your fancy ) aswell. That said they are together and priced as one, so yes you have to make the decission yourself.
Billicus wrote: I really like the range and the battalion box is a pretty good deal, but the balloon is too expensive for what it is.
IAbout the balloon it is overpriced and it is not. You have to take into account, that you can make and extra 17-20 pound character ( Magistrate or Strategisst depending on your fancy ) aswell, That said they are together and priced as one, so yes you have to make the decission yourself.
The holsters are on little straps that peg into a gap in the Warriors‘ belts, so it would involve some cutting or remodelling the gaps with green stuff.
Cathay Battalion sold out on the GW store in the US (and may have sold out in the UK/EU as well, folks are reporting inability to purchase them even though it shows in stock). Sounds like a successful new faction launch!
Nothing seems to have shifted on the UK/EU site apart from the dice and book strangely. Also been watching a few reviews (Warhipster mainly) and apparently the kits are kinda crappy to actually build.
How long does it typically take for units in the battalion to be available separately or even just previewed individually (i.e. showing the sprues) on the website?
warboss wrote: How long does it typically take for units in the battalion to be available separately or even just previewed individually (i.e. showing the sprues) on the website?
If you're just wanting sprue pics of the units in the Battalion, can I direct you to stahly's post that I've quoted below?
I don't recall seeing any yet - probably showing up this week or next, I'd imagine, with this last week having covered the design process & some of the background.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Have I been inattentive, or have we not had rules previews for Cathay?
There have been video reviews of the full Arcane Journal posted on YouTube by:
Square Based
Close Order
Miniature Realms
Mountain Miniatures
Guerilla Miniature Games
Sprues & Brews
The Great Book of Grudges
Bearfoot Miniatures
... and a few others
Mountain Miniatures already has a battle report up using the new Cathay minis and rules that got posted less than a day ago.
The Cathay content has been flooding YouTube, and it is great to see.
warboss wrote: How long does it typically take for units in the battalion to be available separately or even just previewed individually (i.e. showing the sprues) on the website?
If you're just wanting sprue pics of the units in the Battalion, can I direct you to stahly's post that I've quoted below?
Thanks. Yeah, I was looking for details on specifically the artillery ogre bits and how they might go together so thanks. In the time since, I watched some youtube videos that were posted detailing the sprues and included showing the assembly instruction manual pages which were the most helpful in that regard.
It's a new army - everyone who doesn't play them will cry that they are overpowered whilst you'll likely find those who pick the army up new will argue the entire opposite.
Or that they are broken but only if you build one specific build.
And it does happen - Slaanesh at one time were dominating the game in AoS because of their method of generating summoning points and if you basically just took all Keeprs of Secrets (which were brand new at the time) you could just keep summoning more and be broken powerful
But when it comes to rules the only consistent thing with GW is that they are highly inconsistent. New armies have just as much chance of being OP as they have of being underpowered
Rules for occupying buildings doesn't seem like such a Cathay-centric idea to me that it belongs in an Arcane Journal... is it Cathay Arcane Journal 2 or is it a Matched Play Guide Companion?
SU-152 wrote: So... power creep like in the old days??, or just an OP army to make sure the new release is a success?
Based on?
It’s an elite human army with zero missile troops and elf-expensive characters.
The Shugengan Lord on Longma is an incredible value for his points, coming in at 7 wounds and a 3+/5+ save, Counter Charge, Fear, Fly (9), Impact Hits (D3+1), Swiftstride, Gives Stubborn to any unit he joins, gets the free random stat buff per turn, and is base Movement 8 so all but immune to things that turn off flying, is a Level 2 wizard, and comes with a weapon built in to the package that grants Strike First... for only 224 points with heavy armor.
For the generic Shugengan General on Longma that is only slightly weaker and not a wizard, it comes in base at 154 points for all of the other rules above.
The cheap Magistrate generic characters allow your army to use their leadership of 9 while in their command range, and is immune to things that turn off your army's ability to use their general's Inspiring Presence... since it is not Inspiring Presence. They also allow your units to Fall Back In Good Order instead of following up after combat while in their command range, get the free random stat buff every turn, and allows any unit they join to reroll the leadership test to reform after running down an enemy unit, redirecting a charge, or making a test to restrain for only 65 points for the Lord Magistrate and 40 points for the Strategist.
The two Core units are the weakest part of the army (but nowhere near weak at all), and when you think of the infantry as 8 point troops that come base with Veteran State Troop stats, free heavy armor, and a free shield and spear or free halberd... that also gets the free stat rolled for stat buff every turn, they are an absolute value. The cavalry are pretty solid, and can base swing in two ranks, making them have the same combat output as 40+ point single wound Chosen Knights when attacking in two ranks for only 20 points per model. Their lances are slightly weaker, but they are well geared to shred the upcoming block of infantry we will be seeing.
The Lanterns are artillery are where a lot of people are losing their minds though, I have no idea how GW priced out the Lantern but 135 points for heavy chariot toughness, about the same wounds as two chariots, a bucket of special rules, and throwing 5D3 shots per Lantern at 12" or taking the long range guns (both options free) makes them feel wildly under costed.
The cannons are wild, and before people say that Cathay doesn't have an engineer type character, the cannons get a 35 point one that doesn't come out of your character points that allow a gun that is; Strength 10, AP -3, Armourbane (3), applies a -1 modifier to all enemy unit's Movement stat and turns off Swiftstride within 2d6" of the impact... to shoot again or reroll the artillery dice. The cannon is 130 points, 165 with the Ogre crew. The cannon wins games by itself because of the negative movement modifiers and turning off Swiftstride, getting to do it twice per cannon in a single turn gives Cathay a massive advantage in maneuvering around the battlefield with their sometimes Movement 5 infantry.
I am going to stop rambling there but the army is incredible, and while I was firmly in the "book is wildly broken" camp initially, I really do think that the book is mostly fine if not a bit over tuned and a hair under costed (Lanterns excluded, those things are busted). But it is really hard to make a proper opinion of the army without knowing what is in the FAQ/Errata that is coming out, and not playing against them yet.
no new minis but rules that do not belong in an army book
so TOW is following the Necromunda release model, which might kill the hopes of some people that GW is changing from a 3 year cycle to a 4 year one
nathan2004 wrote: Is one release enough to say they are pivoting from one method cycle to another?
they haven't pivoted,more like planned that from the beginning.
The question has always been on which release model they settle with TOW after the initial index armies are released, and releases are planned out long in advance and not changing on the fly so whatever they do now was planned early on if not before the original release.
With 3 main games on a 3 year cycle, TOW following that one was out anyway (except some believe that everything is changing to 4 years now with TOW) and other options were to see full army book releases (to combine index and journal again) again.
TOW now get a matched play book adding additional rules and an army book adding additional rules for everyone which indicates that the release model planned for it is similar to Necromunda/LI rather than following a regular cycle.
Open question now is if they ever go back to the index armies or focus on new ones with new model releases. From Cathay we know what number of SKUs to expect and all new stuff sells better to new people so a follow up ignoring the existing players would be the option for stable sales (and if there is any balance or gaming problem with it the community takes care anyway)
Of course it could also be that it still is full atmy book releases and the 2nd Cathay AJ is just an exception, but for now it doesn't look like it but we should know more after the next army release (be it Kislev, Norse, Vampire Coast or Chaos Dwarfs)
I mean, Cathay is great and all. But my Bretonnians are still short one hippogryph. It wasn't even available on an mto basis. :( Thorgrim and Kiknik also haven't gotten their models. I've always disliked GW's penchant for not completing ranges that they make rules for.
JWh85 wrote: I mean, Cathay is great and all. But my Bretonnians are still short one hippogryph. It wasn't even available on an mto basis. :( Thorgrim and Kiknik also haven't gotten their models. I've always disliked GW's penchant for not completing ranges that they make rules for.
I'll keep banging the drum that Brets need a proper MTO with all their 5th ed range (noting the squires and yeomen are actually still from that era). Sneak in the 5th Ed version of Louen and everyone is happy.
Seeing as how the next Cathay release is just the dragon and journal maybe Kislev will be closer to release than I had thought. A reveal by christmas might not be too far fetched. Better to release them sooner anyhow, while TW3 is still somewhat fresh in peoples minds. They can loop back around later and flesh these factions out with more journals.
Chapterhouse had one bonus which was GW moving a lot of their ranges away from "we have rules but no model". Necromunda is about the only one that really stands out as lagging behind a bit; but its also a game where many of those lagging items are "hangers on" that might honestly only be used once if your home-base is attacked. Otherwise they almost entirely work in the background of your games.
Nice to have a model but not essential for the game to work.
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