dietrich wrote:If BA hose Mech IG and Mechdar, I'm a happy man.
A deep striking librarian firing off a S8 AP 1 Lance attack that hits every vehicle in a line for up to 24" is one hell of an alpha-strike against mech guard. Even if the average attack is only 12", it will fundamentally change how mech guard deploys against an opponent with this ability.
Therion wrote:Why are people calling this stuff broken? What the heck am I missing? The game is broken when 250 points of Tactical Marines with a PF Sergeant are racing towards you 18" per turn in a 50 point AV11 transport? What the heck are those guys trying to achieve? Do they still think it's 3rd edition? A bunch of blast from the past guys trying to assault a Chimera a turn after disembarking? Incredible.
Agreed. Unless BA Rhinos suddenly get Assault Ramps on their Rhinos a Fast Rhino really isn't much better than a regular Rhino - certainly not 15 points worth. In fact, to me the added cost makes me less likely to take them.
Therion wrote:Fast Vindicators? Yeah, someone might actually use a Vindicator now so that's good news. Being playable is very different to being overpowered.
Again, agreed.
Therion wrote:The Storm Raven? A Vendetta except for an extra 100 points for some transport capacity and with all the cool lascannons exchanged with one shot hunter killer missiles. Surely this will now break the game.
I don't think this one will break the game, but I'm not going to dismiss it quite so readily yet. Are you paying an extra 100 points over a Valk? Yes, but the value of being able to reliably deliver Marines vs Guard is worth a chunk of that cost. Being immune to melta fire and rear AV12 are also worth some of that as well. The fact that it can deliver a squad AND a dreadnaught is also worth a pretty penny, too. Granted, since you'll only be able to fit a 6-man jump squad in there, part of this value will really depend on how effective Assault Marines will be for their cost. Personally, I think if they can run with 3 inferno pistols in the squad and have an attached special character, it could well be worth it.
Therion wrote:A T6 Librarian that doesn't have an invulnerable save and costs 285 points? Yes, it's just all over now.
I think your cup of sarcasm runneth over, but I don't completely disagree with you in that folks are over-reacting. Just as they did when they first heard the rules for Marneus Calgar. And how many Marneus Calgars do you see running around? (Hm. Interesting thought. I wonder if I was to look back at those early discussions of C:SM how many folks picked out Vulkan to be the big winner?)
Therion wrote:Come on, please, stop with the OTT crap, unless OTT is actually a keyword for 'underwhelming'. I've yet to spot a single thing that would make jump packers or Rhino mounted assault orientated squads truly viable.
I certainly wouldn't call the BA codex underwhelming, but I agree that there's a lot of Chicken Little-ing going on.
Therion is just doing what Therion always does. I find it a good form of light entertainment, same as I find all the posts of "ZOMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" entertaining.
Da Boss wrote:Therion is just doing what Therion always does. I find it a good form of light entertainment, same as I find all the posts of "ZOMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" entertaining.
I find the lack of wailing in this thread disturbing.
Da Boss wrote:Therion is just doing what Therion always does. I find it a good form of light entertainment, same as I find all the posts of "ZOMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" entertaining.
I find the lack of wailing in this thread disturbing.
Yeah I'm surprised most has been rational. Maybe this is in light of the trend of all the new codices?
Alpharius wrote:Looks like a lot of crow is about to be consumed...
Who was it that recently was doubting the existence of the "StormRaven"?
And, GBF doubting the new model for the Baal?
Not sure how I'll explain some of the elements yet, but this is definitely looking like THE codex for my 'counts as' choice for a Raven Guard army!
I never said I doubted a new model for Baal. The one in the picture is the old model. Its like they only needed to make a plastic TL assault cannon anyways. How hard can that be with LRCs?
can't tell, does anyone spy termi specific bits????
Neither Sprue has Termi Bits.
Originally Posted by The Voice
The sprue you are referring to contains:
5x Bolt Pistols
5x Chainswords (1 two-handed)
5x Bolter arm sets
2x Hand Flamers
2x Perdition Pistols
2x Plasma Pistols
1x Power Sword
1x Thunderhammer
1x Powerfist
5x Jump Packs
5x Backpacks
5x Legs
5x Torso backs
5x Torso fronts
8x Heads
20x Shoulder pads
Other small bits
Sanguinary Guard - Makes 5 plastic Sanguinary Guard
Originally Posted by The Voice
Sanguinary Guard look very similar to Sanguinor, with muscled armour, winged Jump Packs, haloed heads, two-handed weapons (three swords, two axes) and wrist-mounted Bolters. There are additional wrist mounted weapons of the Melta and Plasma variety and a lovely battle standard.
Originally Posted by The Voice
As to the Sanguinary Guard, contents are as follows:
5x legs (look like Dante/Tycho)
5x torso fronts (all muscled, no belts)
5x toros backs
5x winged Jump Packs (5 parts each)
5x left arms with wrist mounted Bolters
1x left arm with wrist mounted Plasma Gun
1x left arm with wrist mounted Melta Gun
3x 2-handed swords
2x 2-handed axes (1 double headed)
15x shoulder pads
1x large standard with winged grail icon on top
Multiple heads of different types such as with haloes and laurels
Other small bits like hands for the left arms
HD300 wrote:Umm, no gak. I'm letting you know the ability to take Sanguine Guard as troops is the only reason people would take him.
I don't know whether people would field him or not. If they don't that's fine. But I don't just play people who are competitive, so he might come up. And regardless, my objection boils down to the fact that I don't get -any- influence on whether or not my character gets nerfed or not. If Dante is fielded, my character gets gimped. That's a poor game mechanic that just isn't much fun to play against.
And for the record, my head is neither pretty nor little. I'd prefer if you spoke to me in a more respectful manner.
It so obviously isn't the old Baal that's it's unbelievable that anyone thinks it is!
The more I learn about the new codex and models, the more it makes me want to stick with Vanilla marines; that new sprue especially looks like some weird Chaos kit
Plus, Sternguard for Blood Angels? Isn't that some sort of black-hole creating paradox?
No termi bits??? crap on a crapstick... I still have an un-opened box of space hulk I was planning on saving... (no I am not prospecting, I just wanted to make sure that I had enough floor bits for the diy missions that were floating around... That and I was considering opening it to convert some extra termies... Thankfully I resisted and instead developed my gs-fu and plastirod conversion skills to surprisingly good results)
Still, I am going to rape those bits inside out lol, everything there looks very, very nice, it is really good to see this after so long absent from the scene... I am sick to hell of bath-robed DA and BT, gimme some of that roman/greek goodness! no skirts allowed!
Green Blow Fly wrote:I never said I doubted a new model for Baal. The one in the picture is the old model. Its like they only needed to make a plastic TL assault cannon anyways. How hard can that be with LRCs?
G
Seriously, we can clearly see that the tactical marines in the picture have parts from the new upgrade sprue and the whole issue over there being Sternguard has been resolved by confirmation that Sternguard are in the new Codex, so why the hell if they are releasing a plastic Baal would they use a converted old version in the pic. I mean it is the preview pic for the new release and it contains a Baal that has several distinct differences from the current model, that rather suggests that it IS the new Baal, don't you think...?
I'm slightly regretting not offering the bet myself as I could use a Battleforce, but as obviously aren't going to accept this is the new model it would seem kind of futile.
Khornatedemon wrote:So can you assault out of a deep striking land raider the turn it comes in?
Nope
Why not? They count as moving at Combat Speed, and assualt vehicels allows assaults after moving.
Until I see the codex I must assume that the deep striking LR bit was either a joke or a reference to the donkey cannon packing storm raven
I don't see why DSing Land Raiders are that big of a deal. The model is huge, and so a mishap is a big risk especially when you want to put them in assault range.
The way I see it, you've got a 2/3rds chance of scattering an average of 7 inches. Could even be more, but I'm going to want a roughly 6 inch zone (measuring from the hull) of no impassible terrain and no enemy units. How often is there such a perfect place to plant a model that big? Considering the LR and its cargo are likely to be worth upwards of 5-600 points, it's too much to risk except in perfect situations, even if it's only about a 25-30% chance of going horribly wrong.
Yeah, the overuse of the word 'Blood' is a little tedious. Yes, we get that they're Vampires. What happened to style?
Fighting against the Blood Angels is going to be like a rewrite of Monty Python's 'Spam' sketch. "Do you have anything that doesn't have Blood in it?"
bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Oh and the magna grapple?
I can't decide if that's awesome or unbelievably stupid.
What's stupid is that they missed an opportunity to work in the word 'blood' in the name somewhere... 'Magna Blood Grapple' would surely be more appropriate.
Alpharius wrote:Looks like a lot of crow is about to be consumed...
Who was it that recently was doubting the existence of the "StormRaven"?
That would be me. Although, to be fair, I was doubting the existence of something called the 'Storm Harbinger' which was far too cringeworthy for words. 'Stormraven' is much better, even if it doesn't contain the word 'blood'
I might have to just refer to it as the Bloody Bloodraven of Blood-filled Doom.
CrazyThang wrote:IIRC the Stormraven can transport 12 jump pack troops. I haven't seen it but that was being said earlier.
6. Jump Infantry count as 2 models, according to the pic posted.
It does occur to me that I also have to eat crow on the whole 'Blood-forged Blade' being too silly for an actual codex. They've got Blood-everything else in there... And a Magna Grapple. The only thing missing now is a button on Dante's back so that he has a 'super-blood-axe-attack' action!TM!
Khornatedemon wrote:So can you assault out of a deep striking land raider the turn it comes in?
Nope
Why not? They count as moving at Combat Speed, and assualt vehicels allows assaults after moving.
Until I see the codex I must assume that the deep striking LR bit was either a joke or a reference to the donkey cannon packing storm raven
I don't see why DSing Land Raiders are that big of a deal. The model is huge, and so a mishap is a big risk especially when you want to put them in assault range.
The way I see it, you've got a 2/3rds chance of scattering an average of 7 inches. Could even be more, but I'm going to want a roughly 6 inch zone (measuring from the hull) of no impassible terrain and no enemy units. How often is there such a perfect place to plant a model that big? Considering the LR and its cargo are likely to be worth upwards of 5-600 points, it's too much to risk except in perfect situations, even if it's only about a 25-30% chance of going horribly wrong.
Actually I was not saying OMG that's so broken!!! but rather that the idea is pointless and stupid. Especially if you can't assault out of it on the turn you arrive because then it's just a horrendously expensive drop pod. Not to mention how it would work fluff wise...
Green Blow Fly wrote:The one in the picture is the old model.
No it isn't, despite how often you keep repeating this.
I reckon you owe someone a...... battleforce was it ?
I suggested a Dev squad... then it fell through. Anyways I would love to see some real proof the Baal in the picture is the new all plastic crack model.
Green Blow Fly wrote:Anyways I would love to see some real proof the Baal in the picture is the new all plastic crack model.
You mean other than the entire page of differences between the picture and the old model that were pointed out?
poppycock! that proves nothing. a single gamer with access to a foundry and knowledge of casting (or scibor on speed dial) could have made the extra bits to add onto the existing model as well as filing down the existing protrusions. obviously, that's the more reasonable answer.
I have no major issue with Deep Striking Landraiders in game terms. I just want to know how they're doing it. Are they dropping them out of planes like in the new A-Team trailer or are they teleporting in from orbit? Either way, it seems daft.
EDIT - Oh and those two guys in the video above, they should have their own show. Warhammer Prime Time or something ;
As a Blood Angel player since 1997, it fills my heart with joy to see the overreactions sweeping the interwebz. I remember when the 3rd edition Blood Angels book came out and literally almost a third of the Toronto GT that year consisted of BA players. Next year the Eldar were out and all those BA players had switched to fielding multiple wraithlords. I was still playing my Blood Angels. (I fought 9 Emperor-damned Wraithlords that year in 5 games... grrr)
My point? No matter how broken you think something is now, eventually you get used to it and learn to deal with it. There will always be something else that comes up that becomes 'the new cheese'.
For my money, this codex sounds awesome. I'm SO excited to have new models for my army. Plus, I can't be acused of being a flavour of the month, since I'm still playing with 2nd edition marines and their matchbox rhinos painted BA RED (orange)!
My only thought on the workings of a deep striking landraider would be a land raider detaching from a thunderhawk carried down to the planet surface. Correct me if I'm wrong but is there not a thunderhawk from FW that dose that? Maybe in game terms this means that the landraider is dropped from the a low flying thunderhawk.
Chamleoneyes wrote:My only thought on the workings of a deep striking landraider would be a land raider detaching from a thunderhawk carried down to the planet surface. Correct me if I'm wrong but is there not a thunderhawk from FW that dose that? Maybe in game terms this means that the landraider is dropped from the a low flying thunderhawk.
Been playing BA since they were just painted red marines in the Rogue Trader book. This will finally wipe away the stain of the .pdf codex once and for all.
Green Blow Fly wrote:The one in the picture is the old model.
No it isn't, despite how often you keep repeating this.
I reckon you owe someone a...... battleforce was it ?
I suggested a Dev squad... then it fell through. Anyways I would love to see some real proof the Baal in the picture is the new all plastic crack model.
G
It didnt fell through , i settled for devastator. We are now just waiting for the release to confirm.
Da Boss wrote:Therion is just doing what Therion always does.
Indeed. There are people who love to think every new codex or army book is the new greatest thing untill proven otherwise (normally within 4 weeks of release), and there are those who believe that every book GW releases is no match for the current undeniable top tier cheese untill proven otherwise. It's funny how these things go. In the rumour phase and in the honeymoon phase a codex is often thought to be overpowered or at the very least awesome, and when people realise it's not the codex all of the sudden becomes totally unplayable garbage untill it becomes playable again because a proven player managed to win a GT with it.
When you see ravening madmen frothing at the mouth and screaming the end has come and that the new king of cheese has once again arrived, a healthy bit of scepticism is recommended.
There isn't a concept drawing. There is nothing in the entire book that even resembles something that might be a stormraven. It's a pretty sweet entry but it is competing with dreads (which the 2xTLAC Dread is 5pts. cheaper than in the other dexes) and with devastators who have the same cost on ML's and LC's as the Wolves and 15pt plasma cannons. There is actually a lot of competition in each slot of the force org. I personally can't wait for this list. Oh, and they have 5 troop choices.....
CrazyThang wrote:IIRC the Stormraven can transport 12 jump pack troops. I haven't seen it but that was being said earlier.
6. Jump Infantry count as 2 models, according to the pic posted.
It does occur to me that I also have to eat crow on the whole 'Blood-forged Blade' being too silly for an actual codex. They've got Blood-everything else in there... And a Magna Grapple. The only thing missing now is a button on Dante's back so that he has a 'super-blood-axe-attack' action!TM!
No it wasn't. Landraiders can in fact deepstrike and fluff wise in the book it is due to what Nieth said. They also very specifically spelled out in the rules do not allow anyone inside them to assault the turn they land.
Hulksmash wrote:No it wasn't. Landraiders can in fact deepstrike and fluff wise in the book it is due to what Nieth said. They also very specifically spelled out in the rules do not allow anyone inside them to assault the turn they land.
Nope, but I spent an hour today reading it. So I can start modeling stuff from my DIY chapter for when it comes out. I got most of the rules and point values for the standard stuff. I didn't lock in most of the special characters because I'm probably not gonna run them though
Hulksmash wrote:Nope, but I spent an hour today reading it. So I can start modeling stuff from my DIY chapter for when it comes out. I got most of the rules and point values for the standard stuff. I didn't lock in most of the special characters because I'm probably not gonna run them though
Any chance you could tell me what the options for a standard librarian are? I'm hoping to use the *extremely* nice Terminator Librarian model from the Space Hulk set as my Librarian, but want to make sure I can field it as I'd like. Specifically: Force Weapon & storm bolter (Default), and also Force Weapon & Storm Shield (If there's an option for that).
I'm also curious to know what the options for a Chaplain are. At present the two HQ models I have 'ready to go' for my BA are the two I just mentioned. Planning on converting up a new Captain model also (My 5th battle company needs a blinged out new boss-man!) using the shiney new bits
Thanks for any info you can shed, and I look forwards to getting my grubby mitts on the BA dex soonish.
Hulksmash wrote:As for the chaplain oddly enough Blood Angels have the only 3W and 3A Chappies. But they are still in. As well as being a unit upgrade.
Dark Angel Interrogator Chaplains and Black Templar Masters of Sanctity beg to differ.
Green Blow Fly wrote:The one in the picture is the old model.
No it isn't, despite how often you keep repeating this.
I reckon you owe someone a...... battleforce was it ?
I suggested a Dev squad... then it fell through. Anyways I would love to see some real proof the Baal in the picture is the new all plastic crack model.
G
It didnt fell through , i settled for devastator. We are now just waiting for the release to confirm.
Luna go back and read the posts in this thread.
1) you never agreed upon Devs until just now... Which is too late... Sorry.
2) the bet was in regard to the Baal in the picture, not just a new release. Sorry.
Seriously though, 'Liturgies of Blood' (formerly litanies of hate) Now allows the reroll of missed HTH hits, AND wounds...
A long time BA player now grins evilly at all who oppose him.
I helped assemble some of the Sanguinary Guard models. The wings are a bit of a pain, but their bolt pistols/plas pistols/inferno pistols are all gauntlet mounted like grey knight Sb's, with different hand options to go with. Truly a nice addition.
Interesting bit on the DSLR's; I'm assuming that the BA's, according to fluff now, specialize in vehicle drops (above all other marine chapters)....?
I'm also assuming that points will be at a premium for alot of the new toys, though it's good that they have more options for each unit slot now on the FOC.
The real question will be what will be cost-effective in lists now.....
Well as far as the DSLRs go, just about everyone and their brother can take them as a dedicated transport - no additional point cost.
Unfortunately I didnt get to spend as much time looking as I would have liked.
Green Blow Fly wrote:The one in the picture is the old model.
No it isn't, despite how often you keep repeating this.
I reckon you owe someone a...... battleforce was it ?
I suggested a Dev squad... then it fell through. Anyways I would love to see some real proof the Baal in the picture is the new all plastic crack model.
G
It didnt fell through , i settled for devastator. We are now just waiting for the release to confirm.
Luna go back and read the posts in this thread.
1) you never agreed upon Devs until just now... Which is too late... Sorry.
2) the bet was in regard to the Baal in the picture, not just a new release. Sorry.
G
yes , the agreement was whether Baal would be made into plastic.
Oh great and exalted viewers of the codex, what weapon options do assault squads have? My unpainted assault squads await your responses with undo anticipation.
Hulksmash wrote:
As for the chaplain oddly enough Blood Angels have the only 3W and 3A Chappies. But they are still in. As well as being a unit upgrade.
JonnyDelta wrote:Seriously though, 'Liturgies of Blood' (formerly litanies of hate) Now allows the reroll of missed HTH hits, AND wounds...
A long time BA player now grins evilly at all who oppose him.
This prompts a fist pump and exclamations of joy from everyone who misses the 4E codex. I'm guessing it's too much to hope they are I5?
Just saw a picture of the summary page on the blood angels rumors thread at BOLS and the Reclusiarch chaplains are indeed I:5 according to that photo. Lemartes's stat line had a rather interesting surprise too, at least I thought so anyway.
Red__Thirst wrote:Just saw a picture of the summary page on the blood angels rumors thread at BOLS and the Reclusiarch chaplains are indeed I:5 according to that photo. Lemartes's stat line had a rather interesting surprise too, at least I thought so anyway.
All I've got to add for now. Thanks.
-RT-
yes Yes YESS!
The only thing that would make this better is if devs could take specail weapons like havocs...
Green Blow Fly wrote:
It didnt fell through , i settled for devastator. We are now just waiting for the release to confirm.
Luna go back and read the posts in this thread.
1) you never agreed upon Devs until just now... Which is too late... Sorry.
2) the bet was in regard to the Baal in the picture, not just a new release. Sorry.
G
LunaHound wrote:2010/02/21 23:52:47
Green Blow Fly wrote:The gunshield could have been glued differently. I've already stated the modeler may have either differently mounted the cannon internally or simply used the corressponding bits from a landraider kit.
The terms on the bet with Luna were never agreed upon... She wants to bet on a battleforce and I offered a box of Devastators. xD
G
.
Well im fine with box of devastators , but cant be 100% sure without release in a few month
Its just a box of devastartor GBF , dont dodge an agreement like that -_-
Eh, I wouldn't attribute that to codex creep. Devestators weren't taken that often before, so it's not like they were already good and made even better.
Neconilis wrote:Oh great and exalted viewers of the codex, what weapon options do assault squads have? My unpainted assault squads await your responses with undo anticipation.
As someone who's about to start building up assault squads, I'm curious about this myself. Along with what options sgts have, as I want to have an idea on how I'll be equipping them.
Green Blow Fly wrote:The one in the picture is the old model.
No it isn't, despite how often you keep repeating this.
I reckon you owe someone a...... battleforce was it ?
I suggested a Dev squad... then it fell through. Anyways I would love to see some real proof the Baal in the picture is the new all plastic crack model.
G
It didnt fell through , i settled for devastator. We are now just waiting for the release to confirm.
Luna go back and read the posts in this thread.
1) you never agreed upon Devs until just now... Which is too late... Sorry.
2) the bet was in regard to the Baal in the picture, not just a new release. Sorry.
G
yes , the agreement was whether Baal would be made into plastic.
Not new release , Plastic.
II x IIII
LunaHound wrote:
2010/02/21 23:52:47
Green Blow Fly wrote:
The gunshield could have been glued differently. I've already stated the modeler may have either differently mounted the cannon internally or simply used the corressponding bits from a landraider kit.
The terms on the bet with Luna were never agreed upon... She wants to bet on a battleforce and I offered a box of Devastators. xD
G
.
Well im fine with box of devastators , but cant be 100% sure without release in a few month
Its just a box of devastartor GBF , dont dodge an agreement like that -_-
Well, you both suck, GBF, we can't tell untill the release because if they release a new kit that looks nearly identical and all plastic, then we know it was all plastic. Lunahound, it's a box of devestators, do they really mean that much to you?
I thing you should both just get over it and give up.
Not to derail the important discussion on not paying off on bets...
Anyone who's gotten some face-time with the book want to let us know if Furioso's got the Ironclad's armour buff, or is that something for us to stay jealous of Codex: Space Marines (and Bjorn) for?
13 Front and 12 Side. On the Furioso's. Libarian Dreads are an upgrade on the Furioso. Not sure if the Death Company ones are 13 Front as well.
Fun side note Furioso's and DC Dreads can exchange their DCCW's for basically dreadnought lightning claws. For every person they kill they get another attack too
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Because of codex creep, which I have recently been convinced exists.
I think "codex creep" is something mostly in people's heads. There's a power level disparity with codices, but that's to be expected in a game where not every army gets a new codex every edition.
But it's not like every new codex that comes out is more mind-blowingly amazing than the last. Tyranids was hardly game-breaking, right? The 5E power level is different from the 4E power level, but that's only because there was a different design philosophy behind each. And if they didn't raise the bar, why would anyone buy new models and codices?
Crunch-wise BA just sounds like SM Codex with a "this gak is fast" theme, with a few things thematically cheaper like Vanguard vets, but many things more expensive. I mean, if there were 35 point fast rhinos, I'd agree, but a 50% point increase isn't negligible. And until we know all of the point costs, it's way to early to make "ZOMG CODEX CREEP" claims like that anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hulksmash wrote:
Fun side note Furioso's and DC Dreads can exchange their DCCW's for basically dreadnought lightning claws. For every person they kill they get another attack too
Wow, that sounds potent. I'm assuming it doesn't keep giving you bonuses off of the bonus attacks though. Even at S6 you're going to tear through (and hopefully sweep) the majority of most infantry.
Hulksmash wrote:13 Front and 12 Side. On the Furioso's. Libarian Dreads are an upgrade on the Furioso. Not sure if the Death Company ones are 13 Front as well.
Fun side note Furioso's and DC Dreads can exchange their DCCW's for basically dreadnought lightning claws. For every person they kill they get another attack too
Man that is just wrong Bjorn has had a lightning claw since 2ed and he doesn't get that.
Roleplayer wrote:Man, why would I ever play Codex Marines again. They seem to have everything codex has, and more.
Aside from Vulkan, Ironclads, Sternguard, LotD, etc., sure.
While I see your point, might I feel I should remind you that sternguard are in the new codex.
Vulkan? What if you're not Salamanders theme? (Plus I feel he doesn't compare to what some of these new characters seem like)
Yes, legion of the damned are a TOTALLY awesome Unit, real good investment of points there *eye roll*
And Blood Angels have sternguard, apparently.
I think you'll be seeing even marines painted Ultramarines being fielded as Blood Angels with Calgar counting as Dante
Combat tactics was supposed to be the defnininfg thing for Codex Marines. I rekon its dumb that a non Codex chapter gets Combat Tactics + Special rules of their own.
But, maybe the points costs will make all the cross over options incredibly expensive....
Out of all of them, the Death Company have me going googly eyed... Lemartese Finally looks as bad ass as I always envisioned him.. and they just look amazing..
I will be purchasing several of these sprues.. No question asked..
Not a fan of Astorath... he's got the same 'lack of sense of motion while floating inexplicably in mid-air' sort of pose as the Harlequins.
The others, though... Lemartes is so much better than the original that there's just no comparison, and the Sanguinary Guard look much better than I had expected. The white wings are the only thing that lets them down... Makes them look like badly sculpted feathers rather than mechanical constructs. Painted in metalics, or at least scratched and dented up, I think they'll work much better.
I like them all. The Sanguinary guard and the DC especially, but the new SCs are quite awesome as well and will eventually find their way into my collections.
Roleplayer wrote:Man, why would I ever play Codex Marines again. They seem to have everything codex has, and more.
Blood Angels don't have Vulkan, Kantor, Lysander, Khan, Calgar, Cassius, Sicarius, Sgt. Telion, Masters of the Forge, Ironclad Dreadnoughts, Land Speeder Storms, Scout Bikes, Bikes as Troops (unclear), cheaper TH/SS Terminators, cheaper Transports, Combat Tactics that you can rely on having, or the conventional Marine FOC.
Zomg great models! Agree that Astorath's pose isn't the best, but angling the parchments backwards and mebbe switch arms would do wonders. I especially like Sanguinary Guard, finally more ab armour!
...And don't you love how Sanguinor is expressing supreme confidence in his invulnerable save?
LunaHound wrote:GW is finally making the legs longer and straighter , and less hunched. Very good!
The wings are... ugly. I know they are supposed to be mechanical but..
it just looks like badly sculpted thick wings.
The wings arent mechanical, at least not for flight. There is a honking great turbine between the wings. The only mechanics in the wings would be to spread on take off, fold on landing, and maybe stabilisation.
Ok, I will definitely be bring my Blood Angels back, these minis are beautiful! So the Sanguinary Guard box is it's own kit, correct? Then there's another "Blood Angel" box that can make the DC and fancy up normal Tac and Assault squads? There seem to be some of the same bits in the DC and Assault squads pictured there. Either way I will be picking up several boxes!
I've never been crazy about Blood Angels or their models. But I do believe that has just changed. The new models (the ones Izual posted above) are awesome! The Sanguinor kind of looks like Celestine the Living Saint, only a dude, though. But they're still cool.
Wow, Sanguinary Guard look awesome, DEFINITELY getting some of those. The new Lemartes is a massive improvement over the original, but I still prefer my 'counts-as' Lemartes (jump pack Chaplain with Dante's Jump Pack, and an Iron Halo).
Astorath would look better in a different pose, it looks like someone was watching a video and hit pause so he's just floating in midair.
The new Death Company are possibly my favourite looking models in the range, they look mind-blowing.
I'll reserve judgement on Sanguinor until I see a clearer picture on his own. My only concern is thar he looks way too similar overall to Celestine the Living Saint. I know it's a very similar concept, but I think a different pose would have helped a lot.
Still, very cool models- it's gonna make the wait agonizing.
...And don't you love how Sanguinor is expressing supreme confidence in his invulnerable save?
Having seen a different shot of Sanguinor, I was more struck with the idea he was boasting, "Look upon my mighy codpiece and despair puny mortal! Why, it's so mighty it has a blood drop and wings of its own!!!"
Interesting. I like the opposites the 'Dark' Astaroth and the 'Light' Sanguinator. It seems like they've gone to a lot of trouble to rebuild the BA's from the ground up, so this is an interesting releases.
And after seeing all this I cannot wait for the BT re-do.
Interesting. I like the opposites the 'Dark' Astaroth and the 'Light' Sanguinator. It seems like they've gone to a lot of trouble
Yeah, it's incredibly original. I mean for a guy called Astaroth the Grim to be dark and then the second coming of Jesus the Sanguinius to be light is truly astounding. Could even be that the dark guys have to fight a red thirst and the devil inside them and the holy guys could have like, conquered it? Who would've thought of that?
Hulksmash wrote:13 Front and 12 Side. On the Furioso's. Libarian Dreads are an upgrade on the Furioso. Not sure if the Death Company ones are 13 Front as well.
Fun side note Furioso's and DC Dreads can exchange their DCCW's for basically dreadnought lightning claws. For every person they kill they get another attack too
I apologize for not reading the whole thread to see if this has been answered, but the 40+ pages are a little daunting to wade through.
I had a question about the Librarian dreadnaught. I believe that I read that they can use one or more of the psychic powers in the C:BA book.
Does the Dread' have to make a psychic test to use the power? Does that mean the Dread' has a Leadership characteristic? If so, is it required to make any other tests that are normally associated with Leadership, such as morale tests for losing combat? Would it be vulnerable to some of the odd Leadership related things like Mind War (unlikely, since the Dread' has no wounds) or the Crucible of Malediction (which causes a psychic model to be removed if it fails a Leadership test)?
Kirasu wrote:Do you ever have anything positive to say about any release.. ever? lol
Well, GW and 'subtle hints to mythology and religion' simply do not match, so when someone calls something so obvious original or that GW had to go to a lot of trouble to make it all up, it's just a little more than funny
Combat tactics was supposed to be the defnininfg thing for Codex Marines. I rekon its dumb that a non Codex chapter gets Combat Tactics + Special rules of their own.
Learn your fluff better. Aside from DC and some kit, BA ARE a Codex Chapter, just like Dark Angels.
Figures that Seth isn't pictured - the one special character I really care about! I think you can see his head in the bottom left of the assault marines picture, but that's it. I like the regular Blood Angels plenty, but I think the exalted are a little too extravagant for my tastes. They look like good quality sculpts though.
Anybody getting some solid info points costs yet? Is stuff cheaper than it used to be (on certain things anyway) or are we gonna be overloaded with new joyness that we can't make up our minds on what to cut costs for?
Interesting. I like the opposites the 'Dark' Astaroth and the 'Light' Sanguinator. It seems like they've gone to a lot of trouble
Yeah, it's incredibly original. I mean for a guy called Astaroth the Grim to be dark and then the second coming of Jesus the Sanguinius to be light is truly astounding. Could even be that the dark guys have to fight a red thirst and the devil inside them and the holy guys could have like, conquered it? Who would've thought of that?
Yeah, and people accuse me of being needlessly negative.
I never said it was original Therion, only that it was interesting, both in how they've done it and the fact that they did it in the first place.
Kirasu wrote:Do you ever have anything positive to say about any release.. ever? lol
Well, GW and 'subtle hints to mythology and religion' simply do not match, so when someone calls something so obvious original or that GW had to go to a lot of trouble to make it all up, it's just a little more than funny
Note: The word 'original' does not appear anywhere in the post you originally criticized. Also, to restate the question: Do you ever have anything positive to say about any release, ever?
It isn't cool to be underwhelmed by a new release; we aren't impressed that you aren't impressed, although I'm sure you are loving the attention it is getting you. And, since you don't seem to have any specific criticism, I don't think anyone cares about your general negativity toward. . . everything. Just kind of annoying.
It isn't cool to be underwhelmed by a new release; we aren't impressed that you aren't impressed
Well is anyone here really ever interested or impessed about anyone's subjective opinion about GW's new releases? Afterall the purpose of these threads is that someone posts news and everyone either claps or boos.
I like a lot of things about this release. My DIY Marines have had the angel theme for a long while and the Sanguinary Guard bitz will come into play when I assemble some new hero units soon. In addition to a few boxes of the Sanguinary Guard I'll naturally also buy the C:BA if for nothing else than to read it at the toilet. Like so many others I'll be spending money so GW can consider the release succesful. However, I'll boo or laugh every time I see someone call the rumoured units overpowered or even good, or GW's christianity ripoffs original or even cool. Whether you're impressed about it or not is of no consequence. Keep clapping and cheering about everything if you like, that's your prerogative.
To me this seems like the standard case of people being annoyed about a few vocal refusals from the collective circle jerk.
Dear lord, I am so happy for this after the mess that was the white dwarf codex. I liked the old $15 pamphlet more than that one. Loving these new models, though I hate to assemble anything more than what I have.
Is there any word on assault squads taking meltaguns? I've got a couple that are in my veteran assault squad, and if the vanguard and assault squads are taken straight out of the vanilla codex, then there is no place for them. I'm worrying that the only melta option for all of the fancy new assault dudes will be those pistols.
It isn't cool to be underwhelmed by a new release; we aren't impressed that you aren't impressed
Well is anyone here really ever interested or impessed about anyone's subjective opinion about GW's new releases? Afterall the purpose of these threads is that someone posts news and everyone either claps or boos.
I like a lot of things about this release. My DIY Marines have had the angel theme for a long while and the Sanguinary Guard bitz will come into play when I assemble some new hero units soon. In addition to a few boxes of the Sanguinary Guard I'll naturally also buy the C:BA if for nothing else than to read it at the toilet. Like so many others I'll be spending money so GW can consider the release succesful. However, I'll boo or laugh every time I see someone call the rumoured units overpowered or even good, or GW's christianity ripoffs original or even cool. Whether you're impressed about it or not is of no consequence. Keep clapping and cheering about everything if you like, that's your prerogative.
Never said that you had to cheer everything; I just said general negativity without specific criticism seems like an attention grab.
General Negativity: "Meh, I haven't really seen anything that impresses me. Typical GW. . . "
Specific Criticism: "Wow, deepstriking landraiders sure are silly. I can't think of any reason I would take one."
Also, if you don't think mephiston is even a LITTLE op you are crazy. 10 S10 I10 force weapon attacks I believe? Just about the gribbliest CC I have seen, ever, PLUS psychic powers and the utility of a psychic hood?
Also, if you don't think mephiston is even a LITTLE op you are crazy. 10 S10 I10 force weapon attacks I believe
There's a tactics thread about stuff like that, and I've posted earlier there too. I think Mephiston is quite powerful but without points costs and truly accurate descriptions of all his abilities we can only speculate. The bad thing here for Blood Angels players is that if Mephiston is overpowered and everything else sucks, many tournament organisers who have already banned Vulkan and Fateweaver etc will just add Mephiston to the list and the BA people will be left with garbage.
KK the model in the centre is metal.
What you can't see from the position of the model in front of him is that the scrolls come down from his jetpack and are what connects the model to the base, so he is suspended in mid air.
His bodyguard is all plastic from the new sprue.
Also what can't be seen is the new jump packs, which I think I'm going to have to use to replace dante's JP.
As to Seth. If the flesh tearers symbol is a circular saw, where would be a great place to turn a piece of armour into a stylised circular saw blade?
Certainly we'll have to wait and see the codex in totality before making any judgment calls about Good/Bad, but with current info regarding squad sizes and tentative point costs, this army is going to need some serious bonuses at short range to compete with Wolves/IG/basic Marines.
50 point rhinos adds up quickly, and the new Stormraven is seriously expensive considering its short range and its AV. If it was at least front 13, I'd think it'd be an okay buy, but the shorter range of its weaponry plus AV12 means that fielding it is a huge risk; either you Reserve it with all the risks that entails or you put it on the table and risk a gazillion S7-8 shots being pointed at it T1. Immunity to additional melta dice is nice, but at AV12 you don't need melta to knock it out.
The special deepstrike rules for jump pack infantry is really nice, but small squad sizes on their 'uber' units is a problem depending on how they're costed. Even with re-rolls, you still only have 3/4 of an army on T2 fighting your opponent's entire army, and competitive players know how to deal with drop-pod-esque lists.
First glance says this book is going to require a lot of massaging to play competitively. Like the Nid codex, it definitely doesn't seem like there are obvious 'win' combos that someone can download off the Internet and just start raping face with.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:As to Seth. If the flesh tearers symbol is a circular saw, where would be a great place to turn a piece of armour into a stylised circular saw blade?
Shoulder pad of course , unless you want the obvious chest area.
It's too early to say for certain the new BA will be top tier but it's also much too early to say they won't. If the latest round of rumors hold true they will be quite formidable, especially versus any mech list.
God damn. I was expecting much worse when I heard there was going to be a unit in the codex that literally had wings, but those look very, very nice.
It's satisfying to know they steered away from making them more "vampirey" and focused more on the whole angel thing. It makes for some much better-looking models. Lemartes is also worlds above his previous incarnation.
Who is Sanguinor, though? He looks kinda like Dante to me, with the death mask and all, but with wings. He isn't replacing him is he?
Sidstyler wrote:God damn. I was expecting much worse when I heard there was going to be a unit in the codex that literally had wings, but those look very, very nice.
It's satisfying to know they steered away from making them more "vampirey" and focused more on the whole angel thing. It makes for some much better-looking models. Lemartes is also worlds above his previous incarnation.
Who is Sanguinor, though? He looks kinda like Dante to me, with the death mask and all, but with wings. He isn't replacing him is he?
No, he isn't replacing Dante!
He is a 'mysterious' 'Angel' figure... Not sure what that means exactly, but I'm sure the new fluff will tell us at least a little something...
Maybe he's a 'psychic manifestation' of the 'positive' side of the BA's?
I agree, the angelic motif is a lot more desirable than a bunch of glittery edwards running around romancing the female guardsmen. We already have the werewolves though, so it can only be a matter of time.
I saw this stuff and Land Raiders can DEEPSTRIKE WHAT?
Not only that but this........
There are no more draw backs with the Blood Angels now.
DONE SAID!
All the advantages with the blood angels are out weighing the problems they were suppose to have. Each Space Marine chapter codex is suppose to have disadvanatages, in this there are none. Like with Spacewolves.
Asherian Command wrote:Each Space Marine chapter codex is suppose to have disadvanatages,
The current generation of SM Codices are each well-focused. Each SM Codex has advantages, and the disadvantage is that trying to ape another Codex's advantages simply doesn't work very well, if it's even remotely possible.
It's kind of like the Ultras are a 4-door sedan, the BA are a 2-seat sports car, the DA are a minivan, and CSM are a SUV. Each has things in common, but they each clearly shine in different ways.
I dont recall Death Companies Initiative, but their WS is a 5, and they stilll have Furious charge.
They are also a 0-1 Troop choice with unit size of 3-30, and Lemartes is an upgrade.
Baal Predator also has Scout special rule.
Wont get a codex glance again for a while, am away playing soldier.
Green Blow Fly wrote:I heard that dreadnott harpoon is a lie. And no S10 psychic power either. Lemartes does get a new model though.
G
Found these Pics on BoLs. Can't actualy vouch for them 'cos I haven't seen the codex myself, but it looks pretty real and the magna grapple/harpoon is there.
Dread Harpoon is Magna-Grapple. Listed in the pics above. Has this 'Grapple' special rule.
As someone mentioned earlier, it will drag targeted vehicle random distance toward dread, stops an inch from terrain, with no change in facing.
But it DOES cause tank shock against infantry models.
JohnHwangDD wrote:It's kind of like the Ultras are a 4-door sedan, the BA are a 2-seat sports car, the DA are a minivan, and CSM are a SUV. Each has things in common, but they each clearly shine in different ways.
Good analogy. And if you try to build an CC-centric army out of the Ultras, it's like trying to drag a sedan. I imagine (though folks will try to do it) that if you try to build a shooty army out of the BA, it'll be like trying to use your 2-seat sports car to fit 4. You can do it, but it's less than optimal.
It's kind of like the Ultras are a 4-door sedan, the BA are a 2-seat sports car, the DA are a minivan, and CSM are a SUV. Each has things in common, but they each clearly shine in different ways.
What are the great Wolves of Russ then?
I would assume an army jeep or hummer.
It's kind of like the Ultras are a 4-door sedan, the BA are a 2-seat sports car, the DA are a minivan, and CSM are a SUV. Each has things in common, but they each clearly shine in different ways.
What are the great Wolves of Russ then?
I would assume an army jeep or hummer.
An H2. (A really inefficient, gas guzzling, expensive, flashy piece of crap) - Time will tell if the BA codex is the H1 or not.
Anyone know what the deal is with the DC kit? 5 models or 10? I noticed it had 20 shoulderpads in it, but is that intended to be extra for conversions?
Magna-poon is real (think Cryx reaper)
S10 psy power is real
scouts are in and as I recall work like codex scouts with same rules and options as C:SM. Save for red thirst. Scout bikes same deal. I think the real gem will turn out to be the sang priests. 1-3 ICs with jp/bike/term options that grant FnP and FC 6" bubbles. Start at the cost of a MM attack bike. Good way to make your DSing RAS a little more beefy.
Also: clairificarion on the Descent of angels rule. Only RAS and sang guard have (and sanguinor). And unit w/packs DSing out of a raven have it for a turn, but can't assault afterwards. So, vanguard vets look to be about as useless as they are in the SM book.
Another note: the stormraven has PotMS, and can swap HBs for TLMM or for typhoon launcher for half the cost of a sang priest. The TLAC can swap for TLLC or TL plascanmon for free. Can add hurricane bolter sponsons for a little more than the typhoons. It can also take a locator beacon. Overall, it could make for a nasty alphastrike platform. Too bad it's pretty flimsy for it's cost. Oddly, the desc for PotMS speaks specifically to being able to shoot even if the vehicle moves at combat speed, but says nothing about flat-out. I imagine thus will end up being argued and will neeed a FAQ.
DC do not have uber-grit. They get a CCW and bolter OR bp. They have relentless though.
If I remember anything more important I'll post it
0ldsk00l wrote:Magna-poon is real (think Cryx reaper) S10 psy power is real scouts are in and as I recall work like codex scouts with same rules and options as C:SM. Save for red thirst. Scout bikes same deal. I think the real gem will turn out to be the sang priests. 1-3 ICs with jp/bike/term options that grant FnP and FC 6" bubbles. Start at the cost of a MM attack bike. Good way to make your DSing RAS a little more beefy.
Also: clairificarion on the Descent of angels rule. Only RAS and sang guard have (and sanguinor). And unit w/packs DSing out of a raven have it for a turn, but can't assault afterwards. So, vanguard vets look to be about as useless as they are in the SM book.
Another note: the stormraven has PotMS, and can swap HBs for TLMM or for typhoon launcher for half the cost of a sang priest. The TLAC can swap for TLLC or TL plascanmon for free. Can add hurricane bolter sponsons for a little more than the typhoons. It can also take a locator beacon. Overall, it could make for a nasty alphastrike platform. Too bad it's pretty flimsy for it's cost. Oddly, the desc for PotMS speaks specifically to being able to shoot even if the vehicle moves at combat speed, but says nothing about flat-out. I imagine thus will end up being argued and will neeed a FAQ.
DC do not have uber-grit. They get a CCW and bolter OR bp. They have relentless though.
If I remember anything more important I'll post it
Man, I'm really unimpressed with DC. I hope the PWs aren't too expensive.
I think BA's weaknesses are going to be the ridiculous amounts of competition that looks to be filling up the Elite slot...
It's kind of like the Ultras are a 4-door sedan, the BA are a 2-seat sports car, the DA are a minivan, and CSM are a SUV. Each has things in common, but they each clearly shine in different ways.
What are the great Wolves of Russ then?
I would assume an army jeep or hummer.
An H2. (A really inefficient, gas guzzling, expensive, flashy piece of crap) - Time will tell if the BA codex is the H1 or not.
The space wolves are a M1A1 Abrams main battle tank we don't need flash or carrying capacity.
Hey guys, check out part 2 of the unboxing for a closer look at some of the units and sprue and if you like our video's please subscribe. We have a contest this month where one random and lucky subscriber wins a 30$ box set of their set of their choice.
It's kind of like the Ultras are a 4-door sedan, the BA are a 2-seat sports car, the DA are a minivan, and CSM are a SUV. Each has things in common, but they each clearly shine in different ways.
The model for Asgorath is a great pose. Although... I think it would look cooler with a two-handed sword over an axe. Hrm... maybe if it was converted with the nemesis force sword from a GK Terminator... *ponder*
All in all, this looks like a pretty good release with some of the nicest minis since Skaven (though you can't top the Deathmaster IMO). Good to see that Beastmen were a minor glitch in the otherwise upward trend in sculpting quality.
I will resist however. Looking forward to unleashing my new Nids on what will probably be a multitude of BA players next month.
Is it just me, or does one of the Vets and one of the sanguinary gaurds appear to have somthing that looks like a wrist mounted flamer/ melta weapon? or is it just a stylised wrist mounted bolt gun like the rest?
The Sanguinary guard have wrist mounted weapons yes. Default weapon is an Angelus Bolter, 12" S4 AP4 Assault 2 weapon, and they can chance this to a Perdition Pistol (6" melta) or a Plasma Pistol.
It's on the back right marine in both the sanguinary gaurd and Veterans pic. It looks more melterish so i suppose its probably a peradation pistoly thing
coolguyswhositathome wrote:Hey guys, check out part 2 of the unboxing for a closer look at some of the units and sprue and if you like our video's please subscribe. We have a contest this month where one random and lucky subscriber wins a 30$ box set of their set of their choice.
Can I just say? If you guys are going to continue doing this?
The word is Sprue, not Sprew.
And the Veteran Sergeant is quite obviously holding a hand flamer, not a combi-flamer.
I'm trying to understand this and maybe you'all can help me out. I thought one of the positive sides to taking Blood Angels was getting furious charge across the army. Now from what everyone is saying, roll a 1 for each unit before deployment and the unit gets Rage and Furious Charge. Everyone else just gets Combat Tactics. Am I missing something here or does Furious Charge now only come with a negative?
I guess the second question is is there any concept art for the Dreadnought Librarian that anyone has seen, since there doesn't seem to be a model release for it. I'll be curious to see if somehow the new plastic Venerable dread could be converted up into one . . . .
Even with all the cool new toys, I still think your going to see some of the mandatory Space Marine items in the BA list, such as TH/SH assault terminators in a Landraider, multi-melta spam to deal with everyone being mech'd up right now. Flavor it a bit with some pretty cool looking deepstriking models, fast rhinos and several Baal predators scouting in from the side of the board 12" and shooting their flamestorm cannon.
Mattbranb wrote:I'm trying to understand this and maybe you'all can help me out. I thought one of the positive sides to taking Blood Angels was getting furious charge across the army. Now from what everyone is saying, roll a 1 for each unit before deployment and the unit gets Rage and Furious Charge. Everyone else just gets Combat Tactics. Am I missing something here or does Furious Charge now only come with a negative?
It's weird, but it's a fluff thing. Blood Angels utilise the codex astartese as a way of discplining themselfs so they don't suffer the black rage/red thirst, but some fall anyway despite this, but most don't. With Chapters like the Flesh Tearers, they promote the rage so when using a character like Seth, there's a higher chance of suffering the rage.
Bubbalicious wrote:Does anyone who took a peek at the codex know if lightning claws will be like C:SM or if they get a special version of it like the wolves did?
Yes, they are called "Blood Claws" and are actually Space Wolf initiates strapped to the wrists of veteran Blood Angels. They're 15 points per claw.
No, I don't think there's any special lightning claws. They have master crafted power swords on the Sanguinary Guard I think, but that's all.
mrsako wrote:The model for Asgorath is a great pose. Although... I think it would look cooler with a two-handed sword over an axe. Hrm... maybe if it was converted with the nemesis force sword from a GK Terminator... *ponder*
I have a feeling Astaroth has a two-handed axe for one reason:
So Sanguinary priests - how exactly do these guys work? Are they more like commissars that are bought and attached to squads to give them FNP and other tasty stuff? Not upgrading to the special character, but what exactly do regular priests do?
So with the Librarian having the pyschic power to have preferred enemy, how much value is the chaplain really? Besides his power being able to be stopped or not happening, it just really sounds like the librarian is better for the cost and abilities.
Agree with what folks are talking about the transport/flier thing - AV12 is just too fragile in my opinion.
Baal predator - so it's being reboxed as a totally plastic kit? Any word on Furioso librarian models or upgrade sprues for the dreads?
I really can't imagine the Furioso Librarian getting a new kit that quickly, given that the third all plastic Marine Dreadnought box has just been released. As simple as it would be to do three new weapon options (RH DCCW, Force Weapon, Magna-Grapple) and a sarcophagus front with Psychic Hood, I just think that they probably have higher priorities. Can anyone really see them having 4 plastic marine dreads and no plastic Chaos one, that would make no sense.
The Watcher in the Dark wrote:I really can't imagine the Furioso Librarian getting a new kit that quickly, given that the third all plastic Marine Dreadnought box has just been released. As simple as it would be to do three new weapon options (RH DCCW, Force Weapon, Magna-Grapple) and a sarcophagus front with Psychic Hood, I just think that they probably have higher priorities. Can anyone really see them having 4 plastic marine dreads and no plastic Chaos one, that would make no sense.
At GWHQ, the door labelled "Making Sense" is actually the Fire Exit.
The Watcher in the Dark wrote:I really can't imagine the Furioso Librarian getting a new kit that quickly, given that the third all plastic Marine Dreadnought box has just been released. As simple as it would be to do three new weapon options (RH DCCW, Force Weapon, Magna-Grapple) and a sarcophagus front with Psychic Hood, I just think that they probably have higher priorities. Can anyone really see them having 4 plastic marine dreads and no plastic Chaos one, that would make no sense.
At GWHQ, the door labelled "Making Sense" is actually the Fire Exit.
Especially when it comes to balancing out the amount of plastic kits.
If you're honestly surprised they'd put out another Marine plastic kit before a Chaos version, check their track record:
Commander Command Squad Venerable Dreadnought Ironclad Dreadnought Dreadnought Terminator Squad Terminator Assault Squad Tactical Squad Combat Squad Scout Squad Sniper Scout Squad Rhino Razorback Droppod Assault Squad Land Speeder Bike Attack Bike Scout Bike Predator Vindicator Land Raider Redeemer/Crusader Devastators
Then add in all the other chapter specific stuff(like Wolf Guard Termies and DA Vets) and compare that to Chaos plastic kits:
Terminator Lord Terminators Possessed Chaos Space Marines Bezerkers Rhino(which is just a couple new sprues) Spawn Bike Defiler Vindicator Land Raider Predator(again the last three are just marine vehicles with new sprues)
Looking at history, yeah I wouldn't be surprised at ALL if Marines got a fifth plastic dread(there's also the AoBR one, so that makes 4 current plastic Marine dreads) before Chaos got a plastic one.
I must be one of the only ones who is not sold on these miniatures at first glance, especially (the poses of) the characters. Sanguinor looks good as a miniature in a display cabinet, but now picture him on a battlefield, dangling in the air in that pose like a big golden cupid...
Not a big fan of excessive ornaments (like those wings) on models that are supposed to fight with them, so I don't know. I'll probably have to see these in person to maybe change my mind.
Well, unless my eyes deceive me (entirely possible - especially as I HOPE this is the case), a lot of the excessive bling aspect of these new models seems to be either on shoulder pads, or somewhat easily removed from greaves and such.
I do hope this is the case, as I plan on using a lot of these new releases for a Raven Guard army...
I can live with the nips, as long as schumacker doesn't run in and do some close ups of those and the ass lol.
The only thing about this evolution of the BA i'm not down with is the grails/chalices... I cannot see the point, no matter how fluffy, of running into battle with a cup.
I am tempted to convert a 'lil john marine lol.
It's not just the hand-held ones, the symbols bug me a bit too... id rather more angels/wings/blood drops than cups.
Grails and chalices have been part of the BA for a very long time, its not a new thing. Its also heavily based in the fluff, like some of the Blood Angel books. If you can stomach your way through those poorly-written novels, there is a bit of background on BA to be found in them.
There are voices within the Imperium that claim Sanguinius only lost to Horus because he got his ornamental wings stuck in one of the revolving doors aboard the corrupted primarch's battle barge.
I hope that in the background section we get "confirmation" that Sanguinius knew he was going to he death but he did so because he also knew that he would provide the opening for the Emperor to defeat Horus by damaging Horus' armor.
I think we have had hints of this in past editions, but I hope it is brought to the fore once more...
As sarcastic as I'm sure that post was supposed to be, it would make a pretty interesting explanation for why the BAs go so crazy when they have visions of his death.
In reality, the Black Rage is caused by visions of Sanguinius struggling for hours and hours trying to get himself loose, before accidentally impaling himself when one of his wings finally broke off.
Leman Russ has been quoted more than once saying "Shiz happens, these emo marines should get over it already".
Commander Endova wrote:I'm dissapointed I can only take a measly 3 Stormravens, though.
I'm far more disappointed that Storm Raven's aren't part of the initial release, and that there supposedly isn't even a picture to scratchbuild against.
Still, I'll be getting the Codex at least. Not sure about the bitz until I see them with my own eyes.
There is guaranteed money to be made off this, so I bet we will get a plastic kit for it in the near future. The model (in it's developmental stages) was claimed to have been seen by someone at GWhq, right?
The grails were not nearly so prominent in 1st/2nd and even 3rd edition. That kinda stuff was left to flesh drinkers
Ive read all the books as well, and the BA specific ones by swallow are very recent in the scheme of things, they do not represent the old stuff in any way shape or form.
I understand the reasoning and always have, they are the holy vessels used to preserve the essence of their primarch (the vitae anyways, theyve got sangui in the basement in a gold cocoon lol ), and that I can deal with, I just don't like them all over the plave on the armor or being carried around into battle. Just a taste thing really.
Im just relieved they dropped the vampire stuff and grails more or less to focus on greek/roman themed angels again.
more or less I said I dont mind the vampire/dracula armor, im just glad they didnt overdo the teeth and the cannibalism if you know what I mean, they could have went very differently with the directions into vampire counts territory.
And yes, blood drinkers absolutely... doing too many things at once while typing posts not helpful with sounding intelligent... but at least I mixed up succesors! lol
Excuse me while I put on the cone of shame for an hour for my trangression
mrsako wrote:The model for Asgorath is a great pose. Although... I think it would look cooler with a two-handed sword over an axe. Hrm... maybe if it was converted with the nemesis force sword from a GK Terminator... *ponder*
I have a feeling Astaroth has a two-handed axe for one reason:
Yep , when i first saw the name ( but not the picture yet ) i was thinking the same!
Alpharius wrote:But really, I would NOT be surprised to see GW release something in WD at the same time the model hits allowing all Marine Chapters to use it.
They did for the Emperor's Champion the first time around, so there's certainly a precedent for it.
They want to sell miniatures.
Deepstriking landraiders = every 12 year old's wet dream.
Of course every other SM chapter will be allowed to use it (except for DAs and their successors because GW studio loves to punish the emo marines of the 41st millenium)
Alpharius wrote:But really, I would NOT be surprised to see GW release something in WD at the same time the model hits allowing all Marine Chapters to use it.
At the very least, something for Apocalypse.
Which might be the way they go, at least until the 6th Edition Marine Codex.
Apocalypse lets you use anything you damn well please, so I don't see them even needing to do a WD spread about it. I'd be almost disappointed in GW if they didn't try to sell me that kit though, whenever it comes out.
coolguyswhositathome wrote:Hey guys, check out part 2 of the unboxing for a closer look at some of the units and sprue and if you like our video's please subscribe. We have a contest this month where one random and lucky subscriber wins a 30$ box set of their set of their choice.
Can I just say? If you guys are going to continue doing this?
The word is Sprue, not Sprew.
And the Veteran Sergeant is quite obviously holding a hand flamer, not a combi-flamer.
I'd also be better if y'all used more descriptive words. For instance "The nice detail on the scabbard." I hate to sound like my 2nd grade English teacher but what kind of detail, what does it look like?
Saying how cool something is doesn't help anyone, but explaining what you see (that we can't) makes an informative video.
Alpharius wrote:But really, I would NOT be surprised to see GW release something in WD at the same time the model hits allowing all Marine Chapters to use it.
They did for the Emperor's Champion the first time around, so there's certainly a precedent for it.
I don't see that happening with today's GW. They have a hatred for cross codex reading nowadays. otherwise current BA would use the new storm shield rules.
Sorry you'll just have to live without the new over priced skimmer
Alpharius wrote:But really, I would NOT be surprised to see GW release something in WD at the same time the model hits allowing all Marine Chapters to use it.
They did for the Emperor's Champion the first time around, so there's certainly a precedent for it.
I don't see that happening with today's GW. They have a hatred for cross codex reading nowadays. otherwise current BA would use the new storm shield rules.
Sorry you'll just have to live without the new over priced skimmer
I bet we're paying 10-15 points per BLOOD MISSILE OF BLOOD AND MORE BLOOD. BLOOD.
Alpharius wrote:But really, I would NOT be surprised to see GW release something in WD at the same time the model hits allowing all Marine Chapters to use it.
They did for the Emperor's Champion the first time around, so there's certainly a precedent for it.
I don't see that happening with today's GW. They have a hatred for cross codex reading nowadays. otherwise current BA would use the new storm shield rules.
Sorry you'll just have to live without the new over priced skimmer
Today's GW is all about making money (as was yesterday's GW, but they were a bit more... friendly about it!) - so you can count on cross-pollination of Storm Ravens, sooner rather than later.
Wraithlordmechanic wrote:I don't see that happening with today's GW. They have a hatred for cross codex reading nowadays. otherwise current BA would use the new storm shield rules.
It wasn't cross codex reading with the Emperor's Champion. They simply published his rules in White Dwarf for everyone to use.
Pics of some assembled Blood Angels from my local GWS:
I can't wait to get these models. They are absolutely amazing! I'm really impressed with the sanguinary guard. I thought the angel wings would look stupid, but I was really impressed.
The more I look at this new Blood Angels Codex the more I'm convinced it's a Hickory Farms catalogue instead of a 40K Codex. I thought the Blood Angels book was bad for 3rd edition, but the only book I've seen since then that is just as bad or worse is the new 5th edition Blood Angels book. It is really over the top even for the way Codex design has been going for the past year or two. This opinion is being echoed by an awful lot of people I've discussed it with, people who also normally aren't that critical of recent "Codex creep". What level of cheese can they go to from here after Blood Angels? It boggles the mind.
On a more positive note, the new plastic models are more finely done and exciting than ever, which is saying something because plastics have been great for a few years now. I'm really looking forward to seeing what other plastic magic the GW studio will produce for the rest of this year.
I was looking at the dex today at a GW store and I was wondering why they brought back Fear the Darkness as a psychic power? It was brutal in fourth ed on some armies.
What level of cheese can they go to from here after Blood Angels? It boggles the mind.
I'm curious, when very competitively minded players criticise this codex for being underwhelming or based on the rumours perhaps even underpowered do you just skip over those posts, try not to read them and erase their existence from your memory and continue to whine about codex creep? I mean if people call something underpowered and others call it overpowered, assuming both parties know atleast something about the game, it should be something in between, right?
Like sourclams said, there have to be some additional special rules we don't know of or across the board points reductions on assault troopers like jump packers, for most of the BA stuff to be competitive at all.
All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs). The sky isn't falling. Considering that GW has drastically changed the way they design 40K army books from the last two editions I'm very curious what the new Eldar and Tau books will look like. At this pace, even completely new Aspects, grav-tanks, battlesuits, alien auxilia/kroot monsters etc, wouldn't be out of the question. Especially as GW clearly doesn't think releasing models for new units is a requirement in army design. Something I totally agree with by the way.
The Blood Angels codex is anything but broken. It's actually well balanced vs. the other current 5th edition codexes without being over the top. I find it funny that again we're hearing screams of "codex creep" and "cheese" when 40k is actually very, very balanced right now (assuming your not playing DH or Necrons). I love new codex screaming
I haven't been this excited for new toys since my 6th Christmas many many years ago. I'll be filling my closet with BA boxes come release day. As far as the codex goes, I'll reserve judgement until I see it myself. So far, I'm glad that we pay for Death Company like every other unit. I'm disappointed that there's still the random element of rolling a d6 for FC/ Fearless vs. ATSKNF. I hate random abilities and would much prefer a simple point cost for extra abilities.
I probably won't see the new codex until I buy it so I'd really appreciate some help on the following:
1) Assault and Standard Terminator unit entry or just 1 entry with all options freely mixed?
2) How many heavy weapons available for Terminator squads? AC, HF and CML?
3) Razorbacks- In or out as rumored? Available to which units?
4) What units can take Land Raiders as dedicated transports?
5) Can Troop Assault squads drop their jump packs for transports?
6) If yes, what dedicated transport options are available for them?
7) Confirmation on Elite Chaplains- Are they all Elite similar to Techmarines or are they an upgrade for Death Company? Something else entirely?
Plastic Mini questions:
1) Are there BA Chapter pads?
2) Which box do they come in?
3) How many in each box
4) Are there company pads (tear/ blood drops)?
5) Please describe them, ie. pads with 1 blood drop, 2 drops etc.
6) How many of each company pad/ box
7) Which boxes do they come in?
Thanks very much for any and all info.
*Edit* Cleaned up the format and added miniature questions.
The GW painted Sanguinary guard looked a bit underwhelming, but when the pics was put up of the local GW store putting together the SG... the image of Astaroth got in my head and I thought... "Wouldn't it be cool if the SG also had black wings?"
It looks like it will be worth the wait, that is for certain.
Another thing I am fairly certain about... this codex will NOT be overpowered and cheese, as some are soothsaying. They will be powerful, yes, but I don't think any more so than Space Wolves, Tyranids, or Imperial Guard. Everybody cried when they heard rumors of a tank that could put out 20 shots... until they actually used the tank. The Punisher definitely does not live up to the hype it got before the release, and I am sure parts of this codex will not live up to their hype either.
Flagg07 wrote:I haven't been this excited for new toys since my 6th Christmas many many years ago. I'll be filling my closet with BA boxes come release day. As far as the codex goes, I'll reserve judgement until I see it myself. So far, I'm glad that we pay for Death Company like every other unit. I'm disappointed that there's still the random element of rolling a d6 for FC/ Fearless vs. ATSKNF. I hate random abilities and would much prefer a simple point cost for extra abilities.
I probably won't see the new codex until I buy it so I'd really appreciate some help on the following:
1) Assault and Standard Terminator unit entry or just 1 entry with all options freely mixed?
2) How many heavy weapons available for Terminator squads? AC, HF and CML?
3) Razorbacks- In or out as rumored? Available to which units?
4) What units can take Land Raiders as dedicated transports?
5) Can Troop Assault squads drop their jump packs for transports?
6) If yes, what dedicated transport options are available for them?
7) Confirmation on Elite Chaplains- Are they all Elite similar to Techmarines or are they an upgrade for Death Company? Something else entirely?
Plastic Mini questions:
1) Are there BA Chapter pads?
2) Which box do they come in?
3) How many in each box
4) Are there company pads (tear/ blood drops)?
5) Please describe them, ie. pads with 1 blood drop, 2 drops etc.
6) How many of each company pad/ box
7) Which boxes do they come in?
Thanks very much for any and all info.
*Edit* Cleaned up the format and added miniature questions.
I've seen the codex as well as the mini's, so I'll take a stab at this.
Rules:
1)Different entries for regular and assault terminators
2)1 for every 5 terminators. AC, HF and CML 3)I think they are as part of the dedicated transport, but not positve
4)I'm pretty sure anybody that can take a transport can take it. They can only be taken as dedicated transports
5)Yes, they get a 35 point credit towards a transport (all vehicles are more expensive because of their engines)
6)All transports are available to assault squads that give up their jump packs
7)I think this is correct
Mini's
1)Yes, only for regular marines
2) Death company
3) I think its ten sets (5 mini's in the box)
4) I think so
5) sorry, don't know
6) no idea
7)no idea
In regard to the mini's... the baal pred is obviously a new plastic kit. Furioso dread pictured is the old metal one, but the death company one looks new. The terminators are shown with forge world shoulder pads, so my money says there will not be a blood angel terminator box. Most of the other mini's are made up from combinations of bits from the death company box.
You know, I was really looking forward to this mini. Seth sounded really badass. This miniature just seems kind of meh to me. His armor looks simple while his backpack is blinged out. I'll need to see some better pictures, but for now I'm not sold on him.
BrassScorpion wrote:The more I look at this new Blood Angels Codex the more I'm convinced it's a Hickory Farms catalogue instead of a 40K Codex. I thought the Blood Angels book was bad for 3rd edition, but the only book I've seen since then that is just as bad or worse is the new 5th edition Blood Angels book. It is really over the top even for the way Codex design has been going for the past year or two. This opinion is being echoed by an awful lot of people I've discussed it with, people who also normally aren't that critical of recent "Codex creep". What level of cheese can they go to from here after Blood Angels? It boggles the mind.
I think the new books are more balanced than they ever have been, I remember in 2nd ed space wolf armies filling the table with large blast templates, and eldar were just unstoppable, well see how they play on the battlefield but im sure you have to pay for the good stuff, and vehilcles go down really fast compared to 2nd and 3rd ed, I think they have hit the nail on the head with 5th ed rules, exept for cover saves, and am looking forward to facing the new blood angles, and see how my harlequins hold up in hand to hand with them. And laugh at mephiston and his lacky's with my runes of warding.
BrassScorpion wrote:The more I look at this new Blood Angels Codex the more I'm convinced it's a Hickory Farms catalogue instead of a 40K Codex. I thought the Blood Angels book was bad for 3rd edition, but the only book I've seen since then that is just as bad or worse is the new 5th edition Blood Angels book. It is really over the top even for the way Codex design has been going for the past year or two. This opinion is being echoed by an awful lot of people I've discussed it with, people who also normally aren't that critical of recent "Codex creep". What level of cheese can they go to from here after Blood Angels? It boggles the mind.
I think the new books are more balanced than they ever have been, I remember in 2nd ed space wolf armies filling the table with large blast templates, and eldar were just unstoppable, well see how they play on the battlefield but im sure you have to pay for the good stuff, and vehilcles go down really fast compared to 2nd and 3rd ed, I think they have hit the nail on the head with 5th ed rules, exept for cover saves, and am looking forward to facing the new blood angles, and see how my harlequins hold up in hand to hand with them. And laugh at mephiston and his lacky's with my runes of warding.
Seriously, I think the 5E codices are more or less on par with each other. The problem is that they're a little more powerful overall than the 4E codices overall, and a lot more powerful than the 3E ones overall.
Crafting a bunch of creative metaphors for cheese is hilarious, and they do seem to have a lot of nice units, but they all seem to be competing for that 0-3 elite spot. Sternguard and Sanguinary Guard and Libby dreads are all in the same spot. I'll be agonizing over my BA lists...
BrassScorpion wrote:What level of cheese can they go to from here after Blood Angels?
You might want to get that knee looked at - I think it jerked so hard, my monitor rattled when your post appeared... ____
Therion wrote:Like sourclams said, there have to be some additional special rules we don't know of or across the board points reductions on assault troopers like jump packers, for most of the BA stuff to be competitive at all.
Exactly. While stuff is cool, the key question is: at what cost?
Based on the preview info, can people make all-conquering tournament all-comers lists that categorically outclass new Orks, new Guiard, new Nids, new SM *and* new CSM?
If not, then it's probably merely competitive - which would be just fine from a balance standpoint.
Ostrakon wrote:Seriously, I think the 5E codices are more or less on par with each other. The problem is that they're a little more powerful overall than the 4E codices overall, and a lot more powerful than the 3E ones overall.
Crafting a bunch of creative metaphors for cheese is hilarious, and they do seem to have a lot of nice units, but they all seem to be competing for that 0-3 elite spot. Sternguard and Sanguinary Guard and Libby dreads are all in the same spot. I'll be agonizing over my BA lists...
so far i haven't seen anything broken. i've seen a few units that are tricky but work well if you play them right but nothing worth crying over. same as IG and SW and Nids. all the 5th edition codices have standout units but nothing that completely changes the game.
i'm curious to see the astrograth (name?) model. i'm not a fan of the slightly flying pose or the overhead axe but i wouldn't mind converting him and seth into one mega commander model.
Army-wide Special Rules
Combat Tactics – As per C:SM
And They Shall Know No Fear – As per C:SM
Red Thirst - Almost all BA units have it. After deployment roll D6 for each unit with the Red Thirst rule. Any unit that rolls a 1 must exchange Combat Tactics for Furious Charge and Fearless.
Not especially good from a gaming perspective but a nice representation of the fluff.
Descent of Angels - Anything with a Pump Pack can re-roll reserve rolls and will only Scatter 1d6 when Deep Striking.
Deep striking JP troops are still largely a case of "hello, we're expensive, vulnerable and tightly packed. Please kill uss with ordnance/an assault unit/ rapid fire before we can charge and do anything".
I except the sanguard from this as with 2+ saves and access to melta/flamer weaponry deep striking them in to pop a tank, weather some hits and then charge could be viable. You'd probably need to add a libby with the 5+ cover power though.
Weapons & Wargear
GW have said there will be a range of specialist wargear for the Blood Angels
Infernus Pistols – 6” Melta pistols
Nice, depends who gets them.
Hand Flamers - S3 AP6 Template
The doom of nids, fortunately my orks aren't too scaed of S3.
Death Mask - Force a Ld check at -2. Fail and fight at WS1.
Nasty but it depends on who gets them.
Over-charged Engines are gone, replaced with Fast on some vehicles.
Fast rhinos for a price is how they should have always been played. Its not like fast rhinos are game breaking since you can't really assault faster but they'll be better for tank shocking, dawn of war and objective grabs at the tradeoff of costing you nearly an extra rhino for every 2 you take.
Blood Talons - close combat weapons on the Furioso Dreadnought. A dreadnought CCW with a Stormbolter, likely upgradeable to Meltagun/Heavy Flamer.
The hilariously bad "blood" names begin. Blood talons doesn't seem too bad but is laughably pompous for a DCCW
Magna-Grapples - A R12” S8 anti-vehicle harpoon weapon for Dreadnaughts. On a successful Penetrating or Glancing hit, the target vehicle is dragged 2D6" toward the Dreadnought, facing unchanged. Will only pull a vehicle as far as the edge of Terrain or 1" away from (friendly?) models. It has been said it can cause Tank Shock.
Not exactly OP but definitely OTT and stupid as hell in the bargain. Nice for a deep strike build I guess (come closer to my melta pistols!)
Psychic Powers
The Sanguine Sword – Gives Librarian S10
Wings of Sanguinius – As per GW PDF
Quickening - As per C:SM Unleash Rage - Gives unit Preferred Enemy
Blood Boil – A successful Psychic test causes a wound on an enemy unit, allocated by enemy Player. If the Psychic Test is passed with a result of 5 or less, The Blood Angels player allocates the wound.
Unnamed - Draw a line of length 4D6” from the Librarian ignoring friendly models. Enemy models take a single S8 AP1 Lance hit.
Unnamed - Units within 6” get a 5+ cover save
Unnamed – One enemy squad has to take a Ld test to Move, Run, Shoot or Assault.
S10!!!! That better be "and 1 attack". My warboss is doomed.
Preferred enemy! Oh bugger.
Blood Boil sounds fine.
For everyone who whines about Jaws, shut the hell up. Like jaws only better at killing everything except low init monstrous creatures and oh yeah, can kill vehicles, jump troops, etc that jaws can't effect.
The screw you lootaz you can't shoot this turn power sounds annoying too.
HQ Dante, Lord of the Blood Angels – He and his squad don't scatter when Deep Striking. He doesn't have Eternal Warrior.
Death Mask of Sanguinius – As per regular Death Mask, plus pick a single Independent Character at the start of the game and cause -1 to WS, A, I and Ld.
Gives his squad Hit & Run
Allows Sanguinary Guard as Troops
Well he'll get used at least for the all sanguard army. Hit and run with accurate deep strike and sanguard are all nice powers. The Death Mask sounds really unfun and is a poor mechanic if it works as described; being able to basically remove one of your opponent's IC's without having to kill them. He's still very squishy though even with his pinpoint deepstrike. I wonder if he can team it with heroic intervention or if he must be teamed with sanguard.
Gabriel Seth, Chapter Master of the Flesh Tearers – Captain stat line Armed with a very large Chainsword (S8, rending), Bolt Pistol and Iron Halo
Can forgo his normal attacks and cause one auto-hit on everything in base to base contact with him
If an enemy rolls 1 to hit him, he hits back with a basic close combat attack.
Causes all units with Red Thirst to suffer it on a 1-3.
All very cool. Fleshtearers armies will be popular I imagine.
Mephiston, Lord of Death – WS7 BS5 S6 T6 W5 I7 A~5 Ld10 Sv 2+ Around the cost of a Land Raider
Armed with Psychic Hood, Plasma Pistol, Force Weapon, Frag & Krak grenades
May cast 3 psychic powers per turn,
Transfixing Gaze - Does not require a psychic test. A single Independent Character must take a Ld test with a -4 modifier. If they fail Mephiston may re-roll failed hits and wounds. The enemy may fight back is they survive.
I assume transfixing gaze is missing "against that character" which makes it not op but does make him the ultimate character killer at str 6 with a power weapon and init 7, potentially str 10 to instantkill warbosses too. I already hated mephiston now he's just even more hardcore.
Tycho, Captain of the 3rd Company – Hits like a Monstrous Creature (at S4) and can re-roll a single To-Wound roll. His Combi-Melta has access to Sternguard special ammo.
Apparently there are multiple versions such as Death Company in the codex.
Yay fluffy and useful for the first time ever.
Reclusiarch Chaplain – Death Company get to re-roll to-wound and to-hits on the charge with the Liturgies of Hate
Oh joy, better than a wolf priest AND a standard chappy. He better be more expensive.
Astorath the Grim – Armed with Power Axe, pistol and Jump Pack
Described as an Uber Chaplain. Apparently, if he is with the Death Company, they can re-roll Hits and Wounds.
Because the DC wren't hardcore enough already.
Sanguinor, Exemplar of the Host – A “mysterious avenging angel” armed with 2-handed master crafted Power Sword (possibly S6), Bolt Pistol, and Jump Pack. WS8 ST5 T4 A5 Sv2+ 3++
Forces successful invulnerable saves in close combat to be re-rolled
Can nominate an enemy HQ and get re-rolls to all To-Hit and Wound rolls on that model
All friendly units within 6” get +1 attack
Blessing of Sanguinor - One sergeant in your army has +1 to WS, S, W, I, A and Ld
Unlike dante and mephiston this guy sounds powerful without being unfun for the other guy to play against.
Elites
Chaplain – Death Company get to re-roll to-wound and to-hits on the charge with the Liturgies of Hate
What, elite characters? I though SW were meant to be the character spam army not BA.
Dreadnaught – Can upgrade to Venerable, Furioso, and Furioso Librarian
Furioso Librarian have a single Blood Talon and Force Weapon, they have to choose which to use in close combat, but they DO get the +1 attack for having multiple CCWs. They can take 2 Blood Angel psychic powers (including Wings of Sanguinius) and has a Psychic Hood.
A jump pack dreadnought.
It says a lot for this codex that this isn't the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
Vanguard Veterans – A bit cheaper than C:SM. No Relic Blades, but access to the Glaive Encarmine (master crafted Power Weapons). Able to take Hand Flamers. Can supposedly take an Exsanguinator
Yeah but do they have heroic intervention? If so do they still have descent of angels? If so I can foresee a very, very nasty unit here.
Sanguinary Guard – Armed with wrist-mounted Angelus Boltguns (12" S4 AP4 Assault 2), Glaives Encarmine (master crafted Power Weapons) Jump Packs and Artificer Armour. May take Death Masks. Max squad size of 5.
They better cost a load.
Sanguinary Priests – Unit of 1-3.
Brother Corbulo – Upgrade to Sanguinary Priests. Same profile. Armed with a S5 rending Chainsword. Red grail gives Feel No Pain and Furious Charge within 6”. Supposedly only gets FNP himself on a 2+
So corbulo stays in as the necessary guy for his assault bubble.
Are these attached or IC's?
Death Company – Furious charge, fearless, relentless, FNP, 3-30 models, 0-1 choice. Armed with Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon. Can take Power Weapons and Power Fists. Can take Jump Packs.
Cost with Jump Packs is the same as it is in the GW PDF.
Not a Scoring Unit
30 seems a lot but frankly troops at 0-1 without scoring is the fairest/fluffiest combo they've come up with for fielding them yet.
Death Company Dreadnaught - May take one for every 5 Death Company in the army. Several different weapon options including Magna-Grapple, Blood Talons (some form of Melta weapon), etc.
Troops dreads!
.....le sigh.
Again, why is the army which goes slowly insane the army with the most dreadnoughts?
11 max dreads eh? I doubt it'll be that competitive as even the 6 dread armies aren't all that common but it will be hella annoying and the ability to grab a dread from 1 of 3 slots makes list building easier.
Fast Attack
Baal Predator – Pretty much the same, but is Fast, has the Scout USR, and the option for a turret-mounted Flamestorm Cannon.
Strongest unit in codex. Baals were already awesome, now they're better and occupy fast slots. You know what immediately laps out at me, the 6 pred BA list. You will see it. Highly mobile, highly shooty and tough. 3 baals and 3 preds (probably auto/twin las) kills enemy afar and drops transports. Team it with pin-point accurate DS troops for melta strike to heavy armour and assault squads in rhinos to take objectives and assault opponent's shooty elements and you have a solid mech BA list.
Land Speeder Storm – Likely Added
About the only fluff change that makes sense.
Vindicator – As per C:SM but are Fast
This is the stupidest thing in the codex by far. Speedy seige engines. For when you need to catch that speedy bunker that's getting away or rocket through densely packed and rubble strewn streets at ramming speed. It's like they didn't even consider their own fluff.
Stormraven Gunship – Armour 12 all around, Skimmer, Fast, Assault Vehicle, Deep Strike.
Armed with twin-linked Assault Cannons, twin-linked Heavy Bolters and 4 Bloodstrike Missiles.
Ceremite Plating make is immune to Melta weapons' extra penetration due to being able to withstand atmospheric re-entry temperatures
Bloodstrike Missiles Range 72” S8 AP1 Heavy 1, One-shot
Transports up to 2 squads of up to 12 Marines total (Jump Troops take up 2 slots) and up to 1 Dreadnought at the same time.
Transported Dreads take a single S4 hit on rear armour if the Stormraven explodes
Models can be deployed at any point of the move, even if it goes flat out but they must take a Dangerous Terrain test (Jump Pack Troops have a better chance of passing). Models deployed in this way cannot assault.
No fire points
4 access points (front, sides and top (?))
May replace Heavy Bolters with either twin-linked Multi-Melta or twin-linked Typhoon Launchers. May also take Hurricane Bolter sponsons.
Okay its a heavy so max 3 which is good because it is powerful. Its expensive too but not for the value it adds. You can immediately see a "rush" list based on this that will hit hard and well. Assault squads in storm ravens with one of the IC spam characters charging into enemy lines. The assault cannons and bloodstrike missle open up armour and the guys inside charge the squishy bits. The billion dreads you get land and charge at the same time and provide support/deal with heavy armour.
But it is relatively fragile even with ceramite plating so whilst powerful there are obvious flaws.
Bloodstrike missles continue the ridiculous names theme.
note to mods I'm quoting both to respond and because we're all discussing rules last detailed 10 pages back and I reckon we could stand to list them again. Please delete if innapropriate)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JonnyDelta wrote:Well as far as the DSLRs go, just about everyone and their brother can take them as a dedicated transport - no additional point cost.
Unfortunately I didnt get to spend as much time looking as I would have liked.
Stepping on BT's shoes a little bit there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hulksmash wrote:13 Front and 12 Side. On the Furioso's. Libarian Dreads are an upgrade on the Furioso. Not sure if the Death Company ones are 13 Front as well.
Fun side note Furioso's and DC Dreads can exchange their DCCW's for basically dreadnought lightning claws. For every person they kill they get another attack too
In this phase or the next one.
Because the latter is like saga of the warrior born and is fine (so long as its more than a 35pt upgrade) whereas the former is the web of skulls and is broken as hell.
Just a quick reminder : Whilst we love to see snaps of the sprues, models and the like, we can't have pictures of units stats, rules and so on. Copyrighted material is something GW will contact us and get us to remove ASAP.
3 baals and 3 preds (probably auto/twin las) kills enemy afar and drops transports
The BA can get quite a bit of armor 13 in there. You could combo those 6 Predators with 2 AV13 DC Dreads as troops and 3 AV13 Librarian Furiosos as elites. IG might be in trouble, as their multi-lasers, autocannons and plasma guns (if they have any) would be ineffective and they'd be left with Vendettas + meltagun cargo and Manticores to do all of the killing, and destroying/shaking 5 AV12 vehicles shouldn't be too much to ask for the BA. The BA could even buy pods for all of the Dreadnoughts and reserve everything if they want to. Baals outflank, normal Predators move on table and fire all 3 anti tank guns, and Dreads fall right on top of stuff to melta. The Librarian Dreads could possibly even cast that S8 AP1 through a couple tanks when they come down. If the BA get the first turn the Baals take their scout move and are pretty close already, las Predators support while 3 of the Dread Pods are already down first turn shooting S8 AP1 shots through side armour. Now the IG would have to pretty much reserve everything.
Wouldn't it be awesome if the BA armies that we'll see in tournaments consisted of only AV 13 vehicles, and noone ever used the elite jump troopers at all? I guess GW won't mind, since I doubt most people got 6 Predators and 10 Dreadnoughts on their shelves just yet.
The Blood Talon on the furioso counts as a LC (S6, not 10), and only generates additional attacks if you take a pair of them. so you give up your S10 for armor cracking. Not a bad trade, but worth mentioning, because you also give up the magna-poon option, and the S6 AP- heavy 2 rending template weapon as well.
The additional attacks are immediate, and there is no limit to the amount that can be generated. I cant wait to throw one of those into a 30 man mob of orks.
The additional attacks are immediate, and there is no limit to the amount that can be generated
Err, there's a psychic power that gives re-rolls to hit, the strength is 6 and a lightning claw meaning re-rolls to wound, and there's no cap on how many attacks can be created? Pretty cool, considering they can also buff their strength and/or initiative to 10 via psychic powers.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I kinda like Seth. It's appropriate for him to be one of the 'Super-Screamy' Marines.
But... wait... if anyone has the Ltd. Ed. Marine w/Thunder Hammer from a year or so back... isn't Seth just that model with a few cosmetic changes?
hmm.. the pose is similar... and they both have the thigh strap for their bolt pistols.
The legs look different, Seth's feet look closer together, and he does look more side on, but I agree, it could easily be a conversion and actualy hope it is. Compared to the other models, he's an aestetic anticlimax.
reds8n wrote: Just a quick reminder : Whilst we love to see snaps of the sprues, models and the like, we can't have pictures of units stats, rules and so on. Copyrighted material is something GW will contact us and get us to remove ASAP.
Appreciate the thought though.
Woops, that was me. I'm kinda new to this, so should I take it off?
There's never been an issue with posting a summary sheet in the past. I mean, if you'd typed it out no one would have cared.
The problem GW has always had with people posting rules is when they post the rules verbatim. Posting a summary sheet is not the same. You cannot play a game using just the summary sheet.
DC dreads have rage and i am pretty sure you shouldn't count on them as your only scoring troops. Yeah, i am seeing the 6 pred lists, but some talk in here is just about the strengths but not the weakness of some units, Mephiston not being IC and with his mobility based on psychic powers is not really good i think.
Tau_player001 wrote:DC dreads have rage and i am pretty sure you shouldn't count on them as your only scoring troops.
Vehicles can't score anyway. So even if you managed to keep one on an objective it'll just be contested at best. So if your only troops are DC and DC dreads, the only way you'll win an objective game is by wiping out the opponent. Good luck. :p
something i'm not clear on with these rumors. it's been said that the chaplains (both the regular and reclusiarch 3w variety) make the death co reroll failed hit and wounds on the charge... do they still do the reroll failed hits for everyone else? i didn't see that explicitly mentioned and the BA fluff says the chaplains pretty much have to devote their time to the death co so i could see GW changing their rules to suit this. any confirmation? also, do the TH/SS terminator squads cost the same as the shooty variety or do they pay a premium for that loadout like wolfguard?
Tau_player001 wrote:(...)Mephiston not being IC (...)
From where is that coming from? As others have pointed out, that would make Mep a Tyranid Monstrous Creature, and I consider that a serious break from the game mechanism. Why should he be the only character to neither be an upgrade for a unit nor an IC?
The edging on Seth's left shoulder pad has circular saw teeth. That model does not (at least it can't be seen).
Unfortunately the ubercoolness of the shoulder pad and the thought that 'He should have an arm replaced with a giant circular saw as a counts as power fist' are all I can remember when I was at my usual source's house last week. I'm almost certain that isn't him, but the model I saw hws unpainted and unassembled.
Dmaned brain not remembering.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also as I said a couple days ago, the promo pics and model pics will start appearing anytime from this wednesday (however beastmen were 5 days late, probably due to the fuglyness of the razorgor).
But I haven't seen a single lame model yet.
Tau_player001 wrote:(...)Mephiston not being IC (...)
From where is that coming from? As others have pointed out, that would make Mep a Tyranid Monstrous Creature, and I consider that a serious break from the game mechanism. Why should he be the only character to neither be an upgrade for a unit nor an IC?
I like that they put Seth in so that people can choose to play Flesh Tearers, it adds another dimension to the book, but...
...it continues the daftness that you need an SC to play a specific chapter. What is so hard about having a list of Chapters together with their corresponding Chapter Tactics?
Tau_player001 wrote:(...)Mephiston not being IC (...)
From where is that coming from? As others have pointed out, that would make Mep a Tyranid Monstrous Creature, and I consider that a serious break from the game mechanism. Why should he be the only character to neither be an upgrade for a unit nor an IC?
Many people who has seen the codex has stated it. Sanguinor and mephiston doesn't have the IC rule. Of course it's still a rumour, but many people had said it.
Tau_player001 wrote:(...)Mephiston not being IC (...)
From where is that coming from? As others have pointed out, that would make Mep a Tyranid Monstrous Creature, and I consider that a serious break from the game mechanism. Why should he be the only character to neither be an upgrade for a unit nor an IC?
Sammael. 4E Techmarines.
true... and simply having a single model unit not be an IC does NOT make them a monstrous creature. MCs have their own rules for terrain interaction, cover, shooting, and close combat.. none of which mephy has. he is simply a 1 man infantry unit. maybe he has particularly bad body odor after being stuck in the rubble for a week fighting the black rage?
Tau_player001 wrote:(...)Mephiston not being IC (...)
From where is that coming from? As others have pointed out, that would make Mep a Tyranid Monstrous Creature, and I consider that a serious break from the game mechanism.
From people that have read the actual codex I guess. And he's not a Monstrous Creature obviously, he doesn't get 2d6 armour penetration or ability to fire twice for example.
Why should he be the only character to neither be an upgrade for a unit nor an IC?
Well, he's not the only character, Sanguinor gets the same treatment. Which is a pity, as I like the model and idea of Sanguinor, but his huge point cost combined with not being able to join a squad makes we wonder if he'll be worthwhile on the table.
skrulnik wrote:Maybe it is cynical of me. But I think this may be the release GW uses to test the "Elite cost More" price model they have been using for Fantasy.
I fear that the Sanguinary Guard box will be $40+.
Sanguinary Guard will be 26 Euro (= $33) according to a post a few pages back.
blood angel wrote:How are the Troop Choice assault troops looking points and options wise?
I don't remember seeing that in these 50 pages.
If I recall properly, Tactical squad is 90 points for 5 guys then 16 points for each additional marine. And I think you have to have a full 10 man squad to get the special weapon and heavy weapon.
Assault marines are 100 points for the first 5, then 18 for each additional. You can swap their jump packs for the ability to buy a transport at 35pts discount (fixed discount no matter how many guys in the squad)
And I didn't see anything about a landspeeder storm... and I specifically looked for it.
Hmm... seems like I forgot a whole lot of single, non-independent characters!
And yes I know that Mep wouldn't get the MC rules, it's just that the discussion on the "Zomg! New BA Are Teh Rapez"-thread over on Tactics revolved around whether one can deal with Mep or not, seing as he can reportedly disrespect the Nightbringer in a single turn of CC. Then people where saying that for all strategy purposes, that man is a TMC...
So is there no "normal" box set to convert your marines into non-DC Blood Angels
The pictures on the GW site are not clear enough to see if those items (like non-DC shoulder pads etc) are in the DC box. For some strange reason the larger pictures never appear for me at their site.
EDIT: never mind, I guess the left shouder pads can be used in combination with a "regular marine pad on the right.
TBD wrote:So is there no "normal" box set to convert your marines into non-DC Blood Angels
The pictures on the GW site are not clear enough to see if those items (like non-DC shoulder pads etc) are in the DC box. For some strange reason the larger pictures never appear for me at their site.
I posted the large pics in this thread for your viewing pleasure.
The Watcher in the Dark wrote:I think GBF might owe someone a box of Devastators...
No! Those are completely different! The one on top is against a white background, and the one on bottom isn't! There is no plastic Baal! There's no new Blood Angels! GRRRR!!!
Joking aside, I'm liking the looks of a lot of these new Blood Angels. Seeing them up for advance order was a good way to start my morning. As for the Death Company not being able to represent regular Blood Angels: What do you think all the Blood Angels in those photos are made from? They just have a handful of Death Company markings on shoulder pads and the like. You can make a great Blood Angels tac squad from the Death Company box and a Tac squad box without much trouble.
Scottywan82 wrote:Wait, but the Sanguinary Priest is NOT an advanced order. It is already available. How is it that I completely missed that mini being released?
It's not a new model or anything, it's from the old Honour Guard kit.
Brother SRM wrote:Joking aside, I'm liking the looks of a lot of these new Blood Angels. Seeing them up for advance order was a good way to start my morning. As for the Death Company not being able to represent regular Blood Angels: What do you think all the Blood Angels in those photos are made from? They just have a handful of Death Company markings on shoulder pads and the like. You can make a great Blood Angels tac squad from the Death Company box and a Tac squad box without much trouble.
Or, for the Angels Sanguine player, you can model the red half to have normal stuff while the black half sports the skull and bones.
skrulnik wrote:Maybe it is cynical of me. But I think this may be the release GW uses to test the "Elite cost More" price model they have been using for Fantasy.
I fear that the Sanguinary Guard box will be $40+.
Sanguinary Guard will be 26 Euro (= $33) according to a post a few pages back.
Having seen the Advance Orders, I am happy to be proven wrong.
Put my order in seconds ago! I wanted both the death company sprue and the sanguinary guard, but I only had enough dough for one. I picked the sanguinary guard. What would you guys have picked?
Scottywan82 wrote:Wait, but the Sanguinary Priest is NOT an advanced order. It is already available. How is it that I completely missed that mini being released?
It's not a new model or anything, it's from the old Honour Guard kit.
Wait, what? The old honor guard kit had a metal arm with a plastic assault marine body.
No, the old BA Honour Guard set was extremely varied.
The Sanguinary Priest was all metal, with the exception of the Bolt Pistol arm. The Tech-Adept was a metal torso that attached to plastic Assault Marine legs, a metal axe and a plastic Bolt Pistol arm. The Plasma veteran is all plastic, except for a metal Plasma Gun. The Power Sword veteran is all plastic except for the sword arm and helmet, and the Standard Bearer is plastic except for a metal right arm and Standard piece.
It's a horrible kit that needs pinning everywhere.
That Sanginary Priest people are linking to is just the one from the direct-only Honour Guard set- the only difference is this one has the Apothecary's backpack, rather than a Jump Pack. I just double-checked the Sanguinary Priest I'm yet to paint and minus the Jump Pack it is exactly the same model.
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Now that advance orders are out, its the worst part.... the waiting for it to get here!
Tell me about it, I have an Honour Guard to paint, but with all the news on Sanguinary Priests being separate units, and the appearance of a banner in the Sanguinary Guard I don't know what to do with them.
I also have an unpainted Predator Annihilator, but I'm considering converting it into a Baal Predator now...
Oh well, guess I can paint my Terminators and Vindicator
